team3s
Friday, December 15
2000 Volume 01
: Number
352
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:41:11 -0500
From: "
ukyo@speedfactory.net" <
ukyo@speedfactory.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Cold air induction
I am thinking about designing a cold air
induction system that will
be applicable for all cars alike. What I
would like to know is if
the ratio of +1hp per every -11 degrees F is
true. If so, I think I
have a way using some creative plumbing (on a
thought... it may not
work on the turbo cars thanks to space constraints) and
some cooling
agents to make a semi forced cold air induction.
What I am really wondering is if such a project would be worth
the
R&D effort? I've abandoned the Unorthodox underdrive pulley
idea for
now (just finished extensive archive reading) and I want a
sensible
way to milk a little more out of my car without killing it
early. My
design (on the surface, before any external heating is
applied to the
system from the engine compartment) could produce ~32 degree F
air
that can be forced at a really low PSI in to the MAS and on into
the
intake. I'll have to research the usual operating temperature of
the
engine bay versus the insulation of the plumbing I am going to use.
I
really think I can make a significant drop in the air temp, the
catch is
going to be the cost of the setup...
If there is enough interest (and
enough performance gain to justify
the project) I can keep the list
updated. If not, I'll just let you
guys know how it turned out.
;)
I have been reading up in the archives on cold air induction,
and
thus far I have not found any proposed or existing setup
that
functions the way I have envisioned. It may even come down
to
incorporating the E-Charger in to the design to add more force to
the
induction. Right now my plan calls for high speed cooling fans,
but
no where near the speed of the E-Charger.
I know I'm not going to
milk out a huge HP gain from this design, but
I think it could be close to
10HP. Not bad if the cost is right, and
a lot safer then a non-dampened
underdrive pulley. :)
I'm welcome to any thoughts...
-
--Travis
'97 3000GT (Base + K&N FIPK sans Resonator Bottle /
Red)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:08:10
-0500
From: "
ukyo@speedfactory.net" <
ukyo@speedfactory.net>
Subject:
Re: RE: Team3S: Cold air induction
I kind of didn't think that far
through yet. Like I said, I still
need to research the average temp of
the engine bay to see if this
would even be worthwhile at all. I'm
being overly optimistic and
thinking I can lower the air temp drastically
with my design at *any*
(or no) speed. While being like a traditional
cold air induction
system it is going to be self powered so that it runs as
long as the
car is running. A constant stream of cooled air regardless
of if you
are at a red light or taking a sweeping curve at 110.
;)
I have the plans sketched out for a proto that I am going to
start
building tonight out of some parts I have laying around. The one
I
am going to make first requires no plumbing at all, but will only
work
on non-turbo 3000GTs and Stealths. If I can get a noticeable
increase
from the parts I have on hand I will let you guys know.
While it won't be
the monster gain twin turbos can give us N/A folks,
it should be something
that will help (assuming it works as
planned...).
I'll give an
update with my success / failure in the near future.
- --Travis
'97
3000GT (Base + K&N FIPK sans Resonator Bottle / Red)
Hopefully I'll
be adding custom cold air induction to my sig. soon.
;)
>But
to get anything close to useful out of this would be 11 * 10 for
a
gain
>of 10 hp you need to drop it 110 degrees. Doesn't sound like
you
would get
>much more than 10-15 hp on something like this and it
only works at
speeds
>that get air cooled (off the starting line this
offers nothing).
>
>But of course I have two of those little
turbo-spinny thingies so 10
hp to
>me is a mere 3% but to someone with
150 hp this is 6%.
>
>--Flash!
>
dschilberg@freemarkets.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:07:33
-0500
From: "brandon thomas" <
a3kgtlvr@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Engine build up and turbo help
Yesterday while I was going to
work in 6in of snow I hit something sharp in
the road. It poked a hole in my
oil pan and caused oil to spray onto the
downpipe and cause a fire. It
drained the oilpan and I didnt notice a
problem until the fire stared. By
this time I could hear my motor knocking.
I just had the motor rebuilt 5
months ago so here I go again. What should I
do to the motor?? I have forged
pistons but the way it sounds one may be
broke. Insurance pays all. I priced
a 1993 short block because I was
thinking this is perfect timing to upgrade
to a 4 bolt main. Or should I
take the $4000 to replace the short block a
build up my old motor. Also the
turbos are fried so what is the best bang
for the buck turbo wise?? I priced
new 9b's at $1300 apeice so what could I
get for $2600. I saw that the gt
pro magnum 357 are around that price but is
that for only one? I apreciate
any comments!
Thanks
Brandon
Thomas
Burnt up
VR4
_____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:06:33
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Cold air induction
At 11:41 AM 12/14/00 -0500,
ukyo@speedfactory.net wrote:
>I am
thinking about designing a cold air induction system that will
>be
applicable for all cars alike.
I also get some very strange
thoughts late at night whilst banging on the
keyboard.
As some of you
know, I have a set of Alamo intercoolers ready to go in, and
will be
installing a Spearco water injection system. I also use water
injection on my
brakes. To feed all this water injection, I was thinking
about installing a
rubber tank/bladder in the spare tire well that could
hold about 5-10 gallons
of water with -- are you ready? -- a ton of ICE!
I have to pump this
water up to the front of the car so the water injectors
can pluck it out of
their reservoirs.
But it occurs to me that I could pump this ice-cold
water to the
intercoolers first. I could design a water jacket that would
surround each
intercooler and serve as a reservoir. I figure the brakes don't
care if the
cooling water spray comes in at 32 F or 90 F, because it's headed
for 1,000
F brake rotors. But is the Spearco water injection sensitive to the
water
temp?
I know that drag racers pack their intercoolers with ice
before a run, but
I've never heard of anyone trying it on a road racer.
Any thoughts out there?
Rich/old poop
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:28:16
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Cold air induction
> I have to pump this water up to the
front of the car
> so the water injectors can pluck it out of
their
> reservoirs.
The Spearco setup has to use a tank that is
matched in pressure to the
Y-pipe to work. Adding another
tank/line/pump to the mix might be
undesirable since you might get pressure
variances in the tank. How do you
know how much water your rear tank
has pumped into the Spearco tank? If you
pump too much in, the overflow
will go into the Y-pipe via the tank pressure
line - and that flow rate could
be pretty high so it could potentially cause
engine damage.
> But
it occurs to me that I could pump this ice-cold
> water to the
intercoolers first. I could design a
> water jacket that would surround
each intercooler and
> serve as a reservoir. I figure the brakes don't
care
> if the cooling water spray comes in at 32 F or 90 F,
>
because it's headed for 1,000 F brake rotors. But is
> the Spearco water
injection sensitive to the water
> temp?
The Spearco setup isn't
really that sensitive to the water temperature.
Most of the cooling effect
comes from the water flashing to steam in the
cylinders, not the direct
temperature difference of the water so I don't
think that's a
problem.
If you are going to put the intercoolers in water, then why not
switch from
an air-air intercooler setup to a water-air intercooler?
That's probably
not well suited to open track racing though. Of course,
neither is carting
around an additional 100 pounds of water and ice.
;-)
If you are only planning on running 15 psi of boost, I personally
think that
anything more than the upgraded sidemount intercoolers and a good
solid fuel
system setup is going to be overkill. If you really need
more cooling than
they can provide then maybe you need to look at a
front-mount intercooler
setup. Of course then it becomes an engine
coolant heater which could cause
a whole 'nother set of problems.
I'd
say getting more efficient turbos to provide cooler intake air at 15psi
would
help more than making a lot of complicated changes to the car. I'm
a
fan of simplicity since complex systems tend to fail more often, and
running
a lot of water lines and pumps all over the car sounds pretty complex
and
potentially problematic.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:04:06
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Re: fuel/ignition computer
Have you guys seen or heard of the new drop in
replacement units some
companies are making? Apex and another company
which makes a Link engine
management board seem like pretty functional
units. They are supposed to
just plug right in replacing the stock
ECU. The apex one has a handheld
programmer and the link is supposed to
work with a laptop or handheld unit.
They use the stock sensors. The
link actually allows you to replace the
coils with single coil per
cylinder. Both also have boost control
abilities. I spoke
to a tech at Apex, and he said they will be making them
for 3000gts and
already have the Eclipse units designed. These seem to me
to be a very
complete solution to the tuning problem. They are
already
pre-programmed with base maps so the vehicle can be started right
away.
Wanted to get other peoples opinions on these units and maybe
some
weaknesses in their concepts.
Sam
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Barry E. King <
beking@home.com>
To: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Cc:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Sunday, December 10, 2000 7:31 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 15G turbos
update
>There will be lots of headroom with 900cc injectors - a
good thing.
>
>I considered bumping the compression up from 8:1 to
something else but
>decided against it. It is actually around 8.3:1
(static) now due to the
>combustion chamber reworking, piston design and
decking that was done on
the
>block and head.
>
>Have you
calculated the cylinder pressures with that CR and those
boost
>values? Based on my (albeit amateur) calculations, something
closer to 8:1
>seemed ideal based on the flow of the heads (my post-reqork
numbers, not
>stock) and all the other rot. It'll be interesting to
see how well this
>configuration works out.
>
>The DFI ECU
will definitely be a big plus. I really want a combination
>ignition
computer/knock detector. I have designed (but not built)
the
>former, but the latter is beyond my means to do it correctly. I
am very
>happy with my TRE MASC/huge airmeter combo, but a "real"
replacement
>computer would definitely be better.
>
>What are
you using for an airmeter, or are you converting to
speed/density?
>
>
>Barry
>
>> -----Original
Message-----
>>
>> Im starting with 15Gs paired with 900cc
injectors.
>>
>> Will work a larger turbo/manifold package
later in the year. Just wanna
>> get running for now
*grin*.
>>
>> Also on a standalone DFI ECU as well, and
compression raised to about
9:1.
>> Should be running at a
comfortable 17-18psi max for the 600Hp were
>> shooting
for.
>
>
>*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:27:38
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 15G turbos update
I guess if your doing a Silver State run, you
might want to keep from
running above 80% for like 90 miles. IMHO
injector sizes and running at
their limits should be qualified with the
intended uses. The price
difference btwn 550s and 720s are marginal and
the labor is the same. I
drag race only, and doubt 11-12 seconds at 90%
IDC is really gonna be a
problem, but you open track racers might not be so
lucky.
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Trevor L. James
<
trevor@kscable.com>
To: Geoff
Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Cc:
Barry E. King <
beking@home.com>;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>;
rush@siscom.net <
rush@siscom.net>
Date: Monday, December
11, 2000 3:47 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: 15G turbos update
>Geoff
Mohler wrote:
>
>> > On a side note, you imply that anything
over 80% will grenade your
engine.
>> > Before I upgraded my fuel
system I ran 400HP for about a year with the
stock
>> > 360's.
That's well over 80%! Zero problems and I was running
>>
---
>>
>> Your injectors, your motor...and you get to own all
the pieces.
>>
>> Study injector design before you attempt to
claim high duty-rates are
>> acceptable.
>
>I never said
ultra high duty rates are acceptable. Barry implied that if
you
run
>anything over 80% then you should expect your engine to grenade at
any
moment. I
>was just stating that my car didn't magically explode
when I pushed my
stock
>injectors well into the 95%+ range many, many
times. It's not a good idea
but it
>can be done without hurting
anything. Maybe I got lucky (who knows) but
that is a
>real world
example, not theory.
>
>I will say the 80% IDC you guys throw around
as a max is a little on the
reserved
>side, especially if you're
running disc type injectors. 85-90% is not a
problem
>for them. I think
Russ Collins qualifies as a pretty reliable source...
;-)
>
>Trev
>96 R/T TT
>
12.17@116.3>92 GMC Typhoon
>
13.96@96.4>
>
>***
Info:
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***
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:29:41
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 15G turbos update
Call GT-pro or Dynamic Racing. They have
all the stuff you need and the
honesty and expertise to steer you in the
right direction
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler
<
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Cc:
Jannusch, Matt <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Monday, December 11, 2000 4:23 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 15G turbos
update
>
>Dude..how long have you been on the list
again? *grin*
>
>I could recommend you search the FAQ..but I
dunno if its there or not.
>
>I'll search on the other PC some of
the bookmarks I have.
>
>On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Merritt
wrote:
>
>> >> What are these devices.?
>>
>---
>> >
>> >replacements to the
AFM
>>
>> Air-fuel meter? monitor?
>>
>>
Where do you get them? How much do they cost?
>> can't imagine
walking into local Pep Boys or ordering it from
JC
Whitney.
>>
>> Rich/old poop
>>
>>
*** Info:
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>>
>
>
>*** Info:
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*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:45:18
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: RE: AFC-fuel control flame war :)
Rich, you could forgo all this
and just get a G-force ECU set to control the
550cc injectors and drive the
car as if it was stock with the ability to
hold 15 PSI to redline! Its
probably the simplest way to do what you want.
I am not sure if G-Force can
program the boost limits higher, so you might
still have to do the boost
controller, but heres another option for you. If
you did this, you
would just have to send out your stock computer to get
daughter boards put in
with the right programming, then put your injectors
in and go racing.
Its not the best way to go for high horsepower needs (I
have heard), but sure
beats anything else for RELIABLE engine management .
Again IMHO--others are
welcome to argue and you can judge.
Sam
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Cc:
Brad Bedell <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>; Barry E. King
<
beking@home.com>;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Monday, December 11, 2000 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: AFC-fuel control
flame war :)
>> I'm so confused. My old Corvette was sooooooo
easy.
>---
>
>Perhaps, but notice the one you're actually
using to race with?
>
>*grin*
>
>
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:54:04
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE: AFC-fuel control flame war :)
You mean I don't need a
boost controller ($500) and an AFC ($750-$1000)?
Sounds too good to be
true.
Is this the same company that takes my ECU, puts a sticker on it, and
sends
it back?
I can't wait to see what the boys think of this.
Rich
At 07:45 PM 12/14/00 -0000, Sam Shelat wrote:
>Rich, you
could forgo all this and just get a G-force ECU set to control the
>550cc
injectors and drive the car as if it was stock with the ability to
>hold
15 PSI to redline! Its probably the simplest way to do what you
want.
>I am not sure if G-Force can program the boost limits higher, so
you might
>still have to do the boost controller, but heres another option
for you. If
>you did this, you would just have to send out your
stock computer to get
>daughter boards put in with the right programming,
then put your injectors
>in and go racing. Its not the best way to
go for high horsepower needs (I
>have heard), but sure beats anything else
for RELIABLE engine management .
>Again IMHO--others are welcome to argue
and you can judge.
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:51:48
-0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
RE: AFC-fuel control flame war :)
Rich,
It would be pure luck to
get a G-Force ECU out of the box that worked
perfectly for any given setup,
even if you gave them all the poop on the
car. You would still need
some means of fine tuning. I'd go with a
programmable ECU before I
shelled out the money for a G-Force, unless you
know of someone willing to
invest the time to tune and program a custom
EEPROM (or three) for
you.
Caveat for any G-Force fans, the unit might be great for casual use
with
narrowly defined parameters, but not in a race car, at least not without
the
ability to fine tune. However, you could use a G-Force to get you
most of
the way there and hope that a cheaper unit like the Apexi S-AFC will
get you
the rest of the way. You'll still need a tunable boost
controller.
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
>
> You mean I don't need a boost controller
($500) and an AFC ($750-$1000)?
> Sounds too good to be true.
> Is
this the same company that takes my ECU, puts a sticker on it,
> and
sends
> it back?
> I can't wait to see what the boys think of
this.
> Rich
>
> At 07:45 PM 12/14/00 -0000, Sam Shelat
wrote:
> >Rich, you could forgo all this and just get a G-force ECU set
to
> control the
> >550cc injectors and drive the car as if it
was stock with the ability to
> >hold 15 PSI to redline! Its
probably the simplest way to do
> what you want.
> >I am not sure
if G-Force can program the boost limits higher, so
> you might
>
>still have to do the boost controller, but heres another option
> for
you. If
> >you did this, you would just have to send out your
stock computer to get
> >daughter boards put in with the right
programming, then put your
> injectors
> >in and go racing.
Its not the best way to go for high
> horsepower needs (I
> >have
heard), but sure beats anything else for RELIABLE engine
> management
.
> >Again IMHO--others are welcome to argue and you can judge.
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:01:25
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE: AFC-fuel control flame war :)
>It would be pure luck
to get a G-Force ECU out of the box that worked
>perfectly for any given
setup, even if you gave them all the poop on the
>car.
I
KNEW it was too good to be true. Sigh.
Rich
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:04:30
-0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE: AFC-fuel control flame war :)
The afc can be had for
around 300-350.00
Brad
Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Merritt
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 5:54 PM
To: Sam
Shelat; Geoff Mohler
Cc: Brad Bedell; Barry E. King;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: RE: AFC-fuel control flame war :)
You mean I don't need a
boost controller ($500) and an AFC ($750-$1000)?
Sounds too good to be
true.
Is this the same company that takes my ECU, puts a sticker on it, and
sends
it back?
I can't wait to see what the boys think of
this.
Rich
At 07:45 PM 12/14/00 -0000, Sam Shelat wrote:
>Rich,
you could forgo all this and just get a G-force ECU set to
control
the
>550cc injectors and drive the car as if it was stock with
the ability to
>hold 15 PSI to redline! Its probably the simplest
way to do what you want.
>I am not sure if G-Force can program the boost
limits higher, so you might
>still have to do the boost controller, but
heres another option for you.
If
>you did this, you would just have to
send out your stock computer to get
>daughter boards put in with the right
programming, then put your injectors
>in and go racing. Its not the
best way to go for high horsepower needs (I
>have heard), but sure beats
anything else for RELIABLE engine management .
>Again IMHO--others are
welcome to argue and you can judge.
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:14:32
-0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Cold air induction
Hey, while you're at it, move or remove
your ABS module. I mounted mine
under the battery and relocated
the washer bottle.
This allows for much more room to run a cold air
intake.
Brad
Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Merritt
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 2:07 PM
To:
ukyo@speedfactory.net;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Cold air induction
At 11:41 AM 12/14/00 -0500,
ukyo@speedfactory.net wrote:
>I am
thinking about designing a cold air induction system that will
>be
applicable for all cars alike.
I also get some very strange thoughts late
at night whilst banging on the
keyboard.
As some of you know, I have a
set of Alamo intercoolers ready to go in, and
will be installing a Spearco
water injection system. I also use water
injection on my brakes. To feed all
this water injection, I was thinking
about installing a rubber tank/bladder
in the spare tire well that could
hold about 5-10 gallons of water with --
are you ready? -- a ton of ICE!
I have to pump this water up to the front
of the car so the water injectors
can pluck it out of their
reservoirs.
But it occurs to me that I could pump this ice-cold water to
the
intercoolers first. I could design a water jacket that would surround
each
intercooler and serve as a reservoir. I figure the brakes don't care if
the
cooling water spray comes in at 32 F or 90 F, because it's headed for
1,000
F brake rotors. But is the Spearco water injection sensitive to the
water
temp?
I know that drag racers pack their intercoolers with ice
before a run, but
I've never heard of anyone trying it on a road
racer.
Any thoughts out there?
Rich/old poop
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:35:39
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 15G turbos update
Ive seen holes in pistons I could stick my
thumb thru because of a failed
injector with only a half-track run.
On
Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Sam Shelat wrote:
> I guess if your doing a Silver
State run, you might want to keep from
> running above 80% for like 90
miles. IMHO injector sizes and running at
> their limits
should be qualified with the intended uses. The price
> difference
btwn 550s and 720s are marginal and the labor is the same. I
> drag
race only, and doubt 11-12 seconds at 90% IDC is really gonna be a
>
problem, but you open track racers might not be so lucky.
>
>
Sam
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trevor L. James <
trevor@kscable.com>
> To: Geoff
Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
Cc: Barry E. King <
beking@home.com>;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>;
rush@siscom.net <
rush@siscom.net>
> Date: Monday,
December 11, 2000 3:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: 15G turbos update
>
>
> >Geoff Mohler wrote:
> >
> >> > On
a side note, you imply that anything over 80% will grenade your
>
engine.
> >> > Before I upgraded my fuel system I ran 400HP for
about a year with the
> stock
> >> > 360's. That's well
over 80%! Zero problems and I was running
> >> ---
>
>>
> >> Your injectors, your motor...and you get to own all
the pieces.
> >>
> >> Study injector design before you
attempt to claim high duty-rates are
> >> acceptable.
>
>
> >I never said ultra high duty rates are acceptable. Barry
implied that if
> you run
> >anything over 80% then you should
expect your engine to grenade at any
> moment. I
> >was just
stating that my car didn't magically explode when I pushed my
>
stock
> >injectors well into the 95%+ range many, many times. It's not
a good idea
> but it
> >can be done without hurting anything.
Maybe I got lucky (who knows) but
> that is a
> >real world
example, not theory.
> >
> >I will say the 80% IDC you guys
throw around as a max is a little on the
> reserved
> >side,
especially if you're running disc type injectors. 85-90% is not a
>
problem
> >for them. I think Russ Collins qualifies as a pretty
reliable source... ;-)
> >
> >Trev
> >96 R/T
TT
> >
12.17@116.3> >92 GMC
Typhoon
> >
13.96@96.4>
>
> >
> >*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 23:37:19
EST
From:
The68th@aol.comSubject:
Team3S: Car Cover?
-
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Does anyone have
any car cover recommendations? I have to park my car
outside in a cold
Minnesota winter, and I don't drive it in the winter. What
would be
the best thing to protect it? I would feel so bad just letting it
sit
there. Thanks in advance.
Chris
1992 Dodge Stealth
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<HTML><FONT SIZE=2>Does anyone have any car cover
recommendations? I have to park my car <BR>outside in a cold
Minnesota winter, and I don't drive it in the winter. What
<BR>would be the best thing to protect it? I would feel so bad
just letting it <BR>sit there. Thanks in
advance.
<BR>Chris
<BR>1992 Dodge
Stealth</FONT></HTML>
-
--part1_bd.9e48dc4.276af9ff_boundary--
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:57:07
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Car Cover?
http://www.miata.net/faq/carcover.htmlOn
Thu, 14 Dec 2000
The68th@aol.com
wrote:
> Does anyone have any car cover recommendations? I have
to park my car
> outside in a cold Minnesota winter, and I don't drive it
in the winter. What
> would be the best thing to protect it?
I would feel so bad just letting it
> sit there. Thanks in
advance.
> Chris
> 1992 Dodge Stealth
>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:21:40
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: fuel/ignition computer
>Have you guys seen or heard of
the new drop in replacement units some
>companies are making?
Not
reallya drop-in as the stock ECU is never fully switched off
!
> Apex and another company which makes a Link
engine
>management board seem like pretty functional units. They are
supposed to
>just plug right in replacing the stock ECU.
As said,
they do not really get rid of the ECU but are replacing the fuel
and
ignition controlling of the engine.
> The apex one has a
handheld
>programmer and the link is supposed to work with a laptop or
handheld unit.
>They use the stock sensors.
Plus additional
ones.
> The link actually allows you to replace
the
>coils with single coil per cylinder.
The others do this too
... but where the heck do you want to place 6 coils
into our engine bay
???????
> Both also have boost
control
>abilities. I spoke to a tech at Apex, and he said
they will be making them
>for 3000gts and already have the Eclipse units
designed.
Apex or Apexi ???
> These seem to
me
>to be a very complete solution to the tuning problem.
What
tuning problem ??
> They are already
>pre-programmed
with base maps so the vehicle can be started right away.
>Wanted to get
other peoples opinions on these units and maybe some
>weaknesses in their
concepts.
What about datalogging and price ? A link to more information
would be very
nice :-)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:10:28
EST
From:
SuiTeSpeeD@aol.comSubject: Team3S: VR4
Newbie...(Insurance Costs)???
Hey guys...I'm brand new to the
list...Well, I've been watching posts for a
while...
I have gotten tons
and tons of info on the VR-4 and decided its the car I
really
want...
Especially after driving a black 94' geo prizm for a while...
I
have saved up since I was 9 years old for a good car....I have my eye on a
96' black vr4...It's in excellent shape with 67,600 miles...My dad said he
would help me pay the extra 4k for it if the insurance wasn't totally
deadly...I'm 16 and I figure it's going to have killer premiums for
me. Can
you guys help me figure out how I should set up my insurance
so I don't have
to pay $1,800 every 3 months? LoL
Also let me know if you
think 67,600 is too many miles for a 96'...the price
on the vr-4 is 18k but
whats the lowest price you think he'd take for it?
Thanks for your
time!
Charlie
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:24:37
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: VR4 Newbie...(Insurance
Costs)???
Charlie,
Not sure if insurance posts are
inline with the "technical" posts here
but everyone can learn something I'm
sure. I am fortunate enough to be over
25, married, no tickets within
the last three years, no accidents within the
last five years, multi-car
discount, and a "long-term" relationship with
this company. Mind you
the no accident and no tickets are skewed since I've
only had my car for 6
months.
Anyway, all of this amounts to a price of about $1,200 a
year for
insurance in Pittsburgh, PA (with somewhere around $500 deductible
for
collision and things like that). Other cities will be higher.
Other
drivers will be higher.
However, the good thing to note
that my aunt researched the codes for a
1995 VR-4 and tells me it is rated as
an "H25" which is the multiplier
(Minivans are about an H12 for
example). Mileage usually does not matter to
insurance (unless very
high mileage means things break easier).
Anyway, a rating of
"H25" is for cars costing somewhere between $60k -
$70k. Cars over $70k
are an "H26" and that is as high as the chart goes and
after that it is more
particular and hand-chosen. I'm sure if the rating
for other years is
the same. Ask your own insurance company
Between 8k - 12k
is the norm for cars so a four-year old car should be
32k-48k on the
odometer. Yours is over and some web pages (Kelley Blue
Book, N.A.D.A.,
etc.) have multipliers (like take so many cents per mile off
the
price). Look at these to decide if the price is right.
Nevertheless, the car is an absolute dream as everyone on this list
will
certain agree. If you DO have to wait for a better time then take
the
suggestion of others and try to get an AWD Talon or Eclipse as these are
the
"baby brothers" of our cars.
Good luck and welcome (we
hope).
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, Magnecor 8.5 wires, and a custom spark
plug
plate
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg-
-----Original Message-----
From:
SuiTeSpeeD@aol.com [
mailto:SuiTeSpeeD@aol.com]
Sent: Friday,
December 15, 2000 9:10 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: VR4 Newbie...(Insurance Costs)???
I have my eye on a
96'
black vr4...It's in excellent shape with 67,600 miles...My dad said he
would
help me pay the extra 4k for it if the insurance wasn't totally
deadly...I'm
16 and I figure it's going to have killer premiums for me. Can
you
guys help me figure out how I should set up my insurance so I don't
have
to pay $1,800 every 3 months? LoL
Also let me know if you think
67,600 is too many miles for a 96'...the price
on the vr-4 is 18k but
whats the lowest price you think he'd take for it?
Thanks for your
time!
Charlie
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:00:18
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Cold air induction
>I am thinking about designing a cold
air induction system that will
>be applicable for all cars
alike.
Well it will be worth for sure although the only workable solution
seems to
be to cut the hood an insert a duct to the filter (without water
please)
There is just no room and no space for any fresh air to go to the
filter.
The room is really limited there and I wish to find a good way for
any
functional ducting. Some of us have already tried this and no one had
any
solution yet. Let us know with pics if yo ufoudn a
way.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:06:31
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: VR4 Newbie...(Insurance Costs) ADMIN NOTE !
Dear
members,
Please ONLY respond privatly to such posts as it is not of
interest for the
technical 3s list and especially not for any worldwide
members !
Thanks for your help
Roger for the admins
93'3000GT
TT
ww.rtec.ch
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:17:03
EST
From:
Phillystreetracn@aol.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Re: fuel/ignition computer
-
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Turbo magazine
did a review of the power fc and i was pretty impressed. they
featured the
3rd gen rx-7 which i think everyone knows they have alot of PCM
"issues". i think the FC will take a lot of the guess work out of setting
base settings. it replaces the factory PCM and is set up out of the box at
factory like presets. the advantage with this is simpler programming. anyone
that has programed a stand-alone for the first time knows it is by no means
easy to get your base line settings. in my opinion once you get the base
line
set up it becomes way easier to tune in for performance mods.(i think
this
makes APEXi a lot more appealing to most daily driven cars) the other
other
thing i like about the FC is it does not eliminate factory
functions. a
stand alone computer is great if you are just all out
racing but for most DSM
guys in general the striped out gutted race car is
not that desirable. i
personally have not installed one of these units but i
am sure by the end of
winter i will. i also have been very happy with the
quality of all the APEXi
stuff i have installed and recommend APEXi quite
often. if you are building a
daily driver that you feel needs the tuning
capability of a stand-alone then
i think the Power FC would be your ideal
choice. good luck.
~pete rudloff~
owner:R&S Kustumz inc.
www.randskustumz.com-
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT
SIZE=2>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Turbo magazine did a review of the
power fc and i was pretty impressed. they <BR>featured the 3rd gen rx-7
which i think everyone knows they have alot of PCM <BR>"issues".
i think the FC will take a lot of the guess work out of setting <BR>base
settings. it <U>replaces</U> the factory PCM and is set up out of
the box at <BR>factory like presets. the advantage with this is simpler
programming. anyone <BR>that has programed a stand-alone for the first
time knows it is by no means <BR>easy to get your base line settings. in
my opinion once you get the base line <BR>set up it becomes way easier to
tune in for performance mods.(i think this <BR>makes APEXi a lot more
appealing to most daily driven cars) the other other <BR>thing i like
about the FC is it does not eliminate factory functions. a
<BR>stand alone computer is great if you are just all out racing but for
most DSM <BR>guys in g!
en!
eral the striped out gutted race
car is not that desirable. i <BR>personally have not installed one of
these units but i am sure by the end of <BR>winter i will. i also have
been very happy with the quality of all the APEXi <BR>stuff i have
installed and recommend APEXi quite often. if you are building a <BR>daily
driver that you feel needs the tuning capability of a stand-alone then
<BR>i think the Power FC would be your ideal choice. good
luck.
<BR>~pete rudloff~
<BR>owner:R&S Kustumz
inc.
<BR>
www.randskustumz.com<BR></FONT></HTML>
-
--part1_b7.99f11cd.276b8fef_boundary--
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:22:48
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE: AFC-fuel control
>You mean I don't need a boost
controller ($500) and an AFC ($750-$1000)?
>Sounds too good to be
true.
As already mentioned a G-Force ECU gives you zero adjusting and
often out
of the box it doesn't work at the full potential.
It is able to
alter ignition and the fuel map (it is locked o none map) as
well as
increasing the rpm limiter and removing any speed governour (if
there is
one... not on mine for sure). But it cannot control boost for sure
! I know
tha tthey simpyl would install a bleeder valve and call this
tuning
;-)
At the end it is the easiest way to change the ignition map. On my
car I
program the chips myself but haven't found any gain yet. The fuel is
handled by the ARC very well and I'm happy to have more control
:)
>Is this the same company that takes my ECU, puts a sticker on it,
and sends
>it back?
No, that's others.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:23:55
-0500
From: "Kevin Schappell" <
kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Cold air induction
Here are my latest thoughts on cold air
induction. While looking at my car
the other night I noticed that I
could cut a section out of the radiator and
run a 4" pipe though it and out
behind the grill bars. This would be a very
high pressure area.
The pipe would be inline with the inlet pipes for the
turbos so it would be
easy to plumb into them. Now I just have to figure
out if there is
enough room to move the MAF sensor down there. The hole
would be in the
passenger side of the radiator all the way on the end. The
other
option is to get a custom 3 or 4 core radiator just a little shorter
to allow
a pipe to pass through. (I would do this if the stock radiator did
not have
enough cooling capacity after hacking it up) I plan on looking into
this a
little more when the bumper is off this winter. I would also like
to
add two NACA ducts to the hood but I am not sure how much they will help.
If
they work, it would be a great way to cool brakes. I do plan on bumping
up
the center section of the hood 1-2" and opening up the back like a
cowl
induction hood which should get some more cool air into the
engine
compartment.
Am I crazy?,
Kevin Schappell
Learn
more about your car
http://www.AutoEducation.comOnline
Mobile Audio SuperStore
http://mobilesounds.vstorecar.com3SI
members.... you have to see this page
http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead/mitsu2.htm>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Roger Gerl
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 10:00 AM
>
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Cold air induction
>
>
>
> >I am
thinking about designing a cold air induction system that will
> >be
applicable for all cars alike.
>
> Well it will be worth for sure
although the only workable
> solution seems to
> be to cut the hood
an insert a duct to the filter (without
> water please)
>
>
There is just no room and no space for any fresh air to go to
> the
filter.
> The room is really limited there and I wish to find a
good
> way for any
> functional ducting. Some of us have already
tried this and no
> one had any
> solution yet. Let us know with
pics if yo ufoudn a way.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch>
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 16:54:18
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Cold air induction
>I could cut a section out of the
radiator and
Ouch... your bad man ;-))
>out if there is enough
room to move the MAF sensor down there.
Make sure it will never see any
water !!!
>add two NACA ducts to the hood but I am not sure how much
they will help. If
>they work, it would be a great way to cool
brakes.
The brakes, cooling from the hood ? There is just not enough
space to run
any tubing down to the them :-(
> I do plan on
bumping up
>the center section of the hood 1-2" and opening up the back
like a cowl
>induction hood which should get some more cool air into the
engine
>compartment.
Well, then you should place a pressure meter i
nthere to see if the
induction really works. But then, only the rear bank
would get cooled more,
what indeed is not bad.
>Am I
crazy?,
Well, the best ideas are comming from downsizing crazy stuff
.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch>Kevin
Schappell
>
>Learn more about your car
>
http://www.AutoEducation.com>
>Online
Mobile Audio SuperStore
>
http://mobilesounds.vstorecar.com>
>3SI
members.... you have to see this page
>
http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead/mitsu2.htm>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> > From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> [
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Roger Gerl
> > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 10:00
AM
> > To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: Cold air induction
> >
> >
>
>
> > >I am thinking about designing a cold air induction system
that will
> > >be applicable for all cars alike.
>
>
> > Well it will be worth for sure although the only
workable
> > solution seems to
> > be to cut the hood an
insert a duct to the filter (without
> > water please)
>
>
> > There is just no room and no space for any fresh air to go
to
> > the filter.
> > The room is really limited there and I
wish to find a good
> > way for any
> > functional ducting.
Some of us have already tried this and no
> > one had any
> >
solution yet. Let us know with pics if yo ufoudn a way.
> >
>
> Roger
> > 93'3000GT TT
> >
www.rtec.ch> >
> >
> >
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> >
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:58:06
EST
From:
Kdog109SD@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Sparg
Plug Importance
Hello Everyone,
I have a few questions on spark plugs,
since I get confused when people
mention spark plug timing and all that...
Well what is the importance of
correct spak plug timing, and how do I
determine if I need to reset the
timing. I have a 95 3000Gt base
model, and I am getting NGK spark plugs from
dyanmic racing, and the 8.5mm
wires. Also in the next week or so along with
the plugs and wires I am
getting an aircharger, and an underdrive pulley.
Those will be the only mods
I will have, or will have done to this point.
Thanks
much,
Kunal S.
http://hometown.aol.com/kdog109sd/Intro.html***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:20:16
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Sparg Plug Importance
There is no such thing as spark plug
timing. There is heat ranges of spark
plugs as well as spark plug
gap. Both should be stock (heat range and gap)
for a car with little to
no mods.
There is also such thing as ignition timing, which is not
adjustable on our
cars without external devices.
(Why are you getting
an UDP??? I still question peoples wants to get one,
unless it is the
one from Buschrracing.com that has the harmonic balancer
built in - I guess
people will never learn though)
On a related note: For street use,
and with Nitrous, what spark plugs
should I get. I am not going to
spend $10 per plug on the NGK's - I can
change my spark plugs in about 30
minutes, so i don't care about lngevity.
What I am after is a superior
performing plug regarldess of lifespan in our
cars. Am I also correct
in assuming 2 heat ranges colder for 150 HP shot
Nitrous? What are the
downsides of 2 heat ranges colder under everyday
conditions???
-
-Cody
#-----Original Message-----
#From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st#[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of
Kdog109SD@aol.com#Sent:
Friday, December 15, 2000 11:58 AM
#To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st#Subject:
Team3S: Sparg Plug Importance
#
#
#Hello Everyone,
#I have a few
questions on spark plugs, since I get confused when people
#mention spark
plug timing and all that... Well what is the importance of
#correct spak plug
timing, and how do I determine if I need to reset the
#timing. I have a
95 3000Gt base model, and I am getting NGK spark
#plugs from
#dyanmic
racing, and the 8.5mm wires. Also in the next week or so
#along
with
#the plugs and wires I am getting an aircharger, and an underdrive
pulley.
#Those will be the only mods I will have, or will have done to this
point.
#
#Thanks much,
#Kunal
S.
#http://hometown.aol.com/kdog109sd/Intro.html
#
#***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
#
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
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End of team3s V1
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