team3s
Sunday, December 10
2000 Volume 01
: Number
346
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 09 Dec 2000 00:49:03 -0500
From: Bill Wagner <
wagner@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re:
Getrag Failures (WASRe: Team3S: Redline bad for Getrags ??)
Actually, I
think there may be, to some extent, an admission on the part
of Dodge. I have
heard of three people who have been able to "cut deals"
with the dealerships
to get the tranny's replaced at a LARGE discount
(like $1200...well below the
typical $6000-$8000 often quoted). Most
people just complained to Chryslers
complaint center. Consumer Reports
did a report on something like this. I
don't remember what it's called
but I think it may have been called something
like a hidden or
undisclosed warranty where if a formal complaint is issued
you get the
repair done at cost or less. Needless to say, I'm sure it's
subjective,
and I doubt if I drove in to a Dodge dealer with 150K miles on a
Getrag
that I would get much (if any) support.
Bill
Wagner
"Greg S." wrote:
>
> With all these studies and
documented evidence of pre-mature failure, I can't
> help but wonder if
Chrysler and Mitsu (and Getrag for that matter) have the
> same
information and documentation and are fully aware and convinced that
>
there IS a problem, but are refusing to acknowledge it for fear that
they'd
> get into a "Firestone" situation where they'd have to replace all
trannies
> with something completely different or super reinforced.
Firestone had tons
> of evidence in their possession about the failure
rates and fatalities, but
> refused to acknowledge them until their hand
got caught in the cookie jar.
> Just makes me wonder.
>
> Any
lawyers in the group familiar with the legal implications of the
Firestone
> deal and how those laws / regulations could possibly be
applied to our
> situation? With a very low mileage TT I don't have
a problem with my tranny
> yet (knocking VERY hard and rapidly on my
desk), but I'm wise enough to accept
> the inevitable that it may one day
be a problem.
>
> Greg
>
> Merritt wrote:
>
> > I can't take all this support!
> > I'm not used to
it.
> > Thanks, Cody
> >
> > Rich
>
>
> > At 12:46 AM 12/8/00 -0600, cody wrote:
> > >I
concur. <snip> With those things - it's like a time
>
> >bomb and no one knows what the clock has on it..<snip>.
>
> >With the Getrags, it just seems 60K miles is their average lifespan,
with
> > >some exceptions both more and less.
> >
>
> > >
> >
> > *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:34:58
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Tilton clutch photos
I'd think it would be a little more complicated ---
too little and it has no effect,
too much and you could run the pickup area
dry. I don't even know what the
flow rate of the pump is.
Anyone else
out there have any knowledge of the arcane sport of oil pan
baffle
design.
Jim
Berry
====================================================
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
Jim Berry <
fastmax@home.com>
> All you have
to do is weld in baffles to keep it from sloshing away...like
> most gas
tanks have.
>
> On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Jim Berry wrote:
>
> > Geoff
> >
> > Speaking of clutches ---- how did
that oil pan baffle project turn out, are you
> > going to share the
design with us other wanna-be racer types. I'm concerned
> > about
those long carousel turns e.g. turn 2 at Willow springs.
> >
>
> Jim Berry
> >
=====================================================
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:43:55
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tilton clutch photos
No..you just dont want your oil/fuel
sloshing away from your pickup..but
you dont want the baffles so restrictive
that you suck dry the area the
pickup is in faster than it can fill from
other compartments in the pan.
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Jim Berry
wrote:
> I'd think it would be a little more complicated --- too
little and it has no effect,
> too much and you could run the pickup area
dry. I don't even know what the
> flow rate of the pump is.
>
> Anyone else out there have any knowledge of the arcane sport of oil
pan
> baffle design.
>
> Jim Berry
>
====================================================
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
To: Jim Berry <
fastmax@home.com>
>
> >
All you have to do is weld in baffles to keep it from sloshing
away...like
> > most gas tanks have.
> >
> > On Fri,
8 Dec 2000, Jim Berry wrote:
> >
> > > Geoff
> >
>
> > > Speaking of clutches ---- how did that oil pan baffle
project turn out, are you
> > > going to share the design with us
other wanna-be racer types. I'm concerned
> > > about those long
carousel turns e.g. turn 2 at Willow springs.
> > >
> >
> Jim Berry
> > >
=====================================================
> >
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 03:49:31
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tilton clutch photos
I weighed (bathroom scales) these
components last week when we put
Ken's GT-Pro Custom 2400-lb clutch
in.
Stock flywheel: 21.5 lbs
Clutch disk (GT-Pro - 1st one) 5 lbs
(looked like stock)
Clutch disk (GT-Pro - 2nd one) 3.5 lbs (very
nice)
Clutch housing (GT-Pro) 15 lbs (looked like stock)
So total
stock is like 41-42 lbs.
Just flywheel and clutch is 26-27 lbs.
Jeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, December 08, 2000 8:41 PM
Subject: Team3S: Tilton clutch
photos
http://www.speedtoys.com/~gemohler/vr4/Its
an OEM sized flywheel, but aluminum with a replacable steel face,
the clutch
housing is..aluminum, dual plate.
Entire flywheel/clutch weight is
14lbs.
Anyone care to guess what a stock flywheel, clutch disc, and
pressure
plate weighs?
Cost: $1600 or so.
Use:
DEFINITELY not for dragracing or the street..unless youre
somewhat careful
about hot starts off green
lights.
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 04:10:20
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 2nd tranny failure
Rich,
This deal seems incredible.
So for $3000 a person can get a *new*
6-speed trany with *installation* at
this dealer? What was the
itemized cost just for the trany? I ask because I
am seriously
considering gathering new components for a 6-spd conversion for
my
'92 TT. Not that I'm buying into your 60K-mile failure theory with
my
56K-mile Stealth. :)
Thanks,
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Merritt" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To:
"Susan ." <
vr4girl@hotmail.com>;
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, December 08, 2000 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: 2nd tranny
failure
>Dealership's told me they can't replace the part, and want
$8k to
put whole new tranny/transfer case unit in (no warranty). >I've
found
a shop that will do the replacement for $4K (they've located a
>used unit), which still hurts!
I feel for all you people who
have bad dealers. It might be worth it
to have your car trailered to
Zimmerman Ford Mitsubishi here in Cedar
Rapids, Iowa. They replaced my '94 6
speed with a new factory tranny
for $3,000 (covered by warranty).
And
what's this "no warranty" stuff? If Mitsu puts in a new tranny,
it
comes
with a 12-month factory warranty.
Rich/old
poop
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 08:02:45
-0500
From: "Trent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Porterfield Sales
Now I'm really confused. I got the quote
including the discount from the
Porterfield web site. When I asked via
email how to order the parts (you
will notice that there is no mention of
ordering on the web site) I was told
that, and I quote, "you can order from
anybody". I took this to mean that
Porterfield did not sell
directly.
BTW I have open tracked with the stock 92 brakes with, god forbid,
stillen
front rotors. Amazingly, the rotors did not warp, nor did the
hubs shear.
My only problem was my 3 yr. old brake fluid boiled up after a
few laps.
Motul solved that problem. It's safe to say that credit goes
to my
inability to go fast enough to overwhelm the brakes. Otherwise,
aside from
a new 911 (she went off track 2 turns after passing me) and a
Firehawk on
R1's (I passed him back when the track got slightly damp) the
Stealth was
having it's way with the rest of the
class.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
____________NetZero Free
Internet Access and Email_________
Download Now
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.htmlRequest
a CDROM
1-800-333-3633
___________________________________________________________
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:06:45
-0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 2nd tranny failure/Kormex Idea
Kormex seems to have taken the
step forward to produce replacement parts for
our transmissions.
Obviously they have only picked the most common failure
components to
manufacture.
Cost on a syncro assembly CANNOT be that expensive to
machine if you're in
the business to machine syncros.
Why don't we
talk to Frank about having the remaining components
manufactured? We
then would have replacement parts in the future.
Once word got out, I'm
sure we could find dealers with heavy local 3k
clients to purchase the parts
for rebuild. Brief documentation could be
made on a proper
rebuild spec/process.
We might even find some of the dealers who would be
interested in rebuilding
the transmissions to front the development
cost.
Brad
Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Jim Berry
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 9:12 PM
To: Susan .;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: 2nd tranny failure
Susan
Not sure what you actually
need --- 'transfer case rod' dosn't sound like
the
correct name. If it's
the output shaft to the transfer case you can get a
replacement part. Your
best bet is to talk to Frank at Kormex and see what
he has to say. Kormex
sells reconditioned transmissions and transfer cases
and Frank has shown
himself to be very helpful. He has even been willing to
talk to your mechanic
and help him out.
Kormex Trans Parts
2151 E.
Philadelphia
Ontario, Ca 91761
(800)
429-5464
Jim
berry
====================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Susan . <
vr4girl@hotmail.com>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
My
'91 VR-4 (bought it at 70K in '97) had the 1st
> tranny replaced at 50K,
and now has a busted transfer case rod (34K on new
>
tranny).
>
> Dealership's told me they can't replace the part, and
want $8k to put
whole
> new tranny/transfer case unit in (no warranty).
I've downloaded a stack of
> files on similar issues on my yr/make/model
from NHTSA, but all owner's
> names are confidential, so luckily, I've
found this list!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 10:37:40
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 2nd tranny failure
At 04:10 AM 12/9/00 -0800, Jeff Lucius
wrote:
>Rich,
>
>This deal seems incredible. So for $3000 a
person can get a *new*
>6-speed trany with *installation* at this dealer?
What was the
>itemized cost just for the trany? I ask because I am
seriously
>considering gathering new components for a 6-spd conversion for
my
>'92 TT. Not that I'm buying into your 60K-mile failure theory with
my
>56K-mile Stealth. :)
>
As luck would have it, I can't find
the receipt. I'm in big trouble if my
new tranny fails before next May, so
I'll look harder. I remember it being
right around $3,000 for the whole job.
Rich/94 VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 12:18:31
-0500
From: "Trent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Brake Ducts
Rich/All
I've already installed 3in. brake
ducts from under the chin spoiler to as
close to the spindle as I dare.
The trouble seems to be the tight fit
between the inside tire side wall and
the lower a-arm. I've collapsed the
duct to about 1 1/2 wide at this
point, but the tire still rubbs at full
stearing lock. I havn't tried
it on the track and I'm not sure if this
is
safe.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
_____NetZero Free Internet
Access and Email______
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 10:35:11
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tilton clutch photos
Coooool. 14lbs
should:
1) Be a disaster to attempt to drive on the
street.
2) Rev like a mother pucker!
On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Jeff
Lucius wrote:
> I weighed (bathroom scales) these components last week
when we put
> Ken's GT-Pro Custom 2400-lb clutch in.
>
>
Stock flywheel: 21.5 lbs
> Clutch disk (GT-Pro - 1st one) 5 lbs (looked
like stock)
> Clutch disk (GT-Pro - 2nd one) 3.5 lbs (very nice)
>
Clutch housing (GT-Pro) 15 lbs (looked like stock)
>
> So total
stock is like 41-42 lbs.
> Just flywheel and clutch is 26-27 lbs.
>
> Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com>
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 8:41 PM
> Subject: Team3S: Tilton clutch
photos
>
>
>
http://www.speedtoys.com/~gemohler/vr4/>
> Its an OEM sized flywheel, but aluminum with a replacable steel
face,
> the clutch housing is..aluminum, dual plate.
>
>
Entire flywheel/clutch weight is 14lbs.
>
> Anyone care to guess
what a stock flywheel, clutch disc, and pressure
> plate weighs?
>
> Cost: $1600 or so.
> Use: DEFINITELY not for
dragracing or the street..unless youre
> somewhat careful about hot starts
off green lights.
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
> Do You
Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.
>
http://shopping.yahoo.com/>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 15:36:35
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Rebuild Brakes.
How hard is this to do assuming brakes are in good
working order to start
with?
I know the saying - don't fix it if its
not broke, but I'm pretty sure at
130K miles, some preventative maintenance
is nice...
Where can I buy a rebuild kit?
Also - Where can I
buy the "speed bleeders" ?? I will only be needing to
bleed my
brakes once when I reinstall everything, so are the bleeders worth
it?
I don't do any track driving.
Also - Any way to ~flush~ the brake lines
of existing brake fluid?
- -Cody
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 16:06:48
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Rebuild Brakes.
At 03:36 PM 12/9/00 -0600, cody
wrote:
>How hard is this to do assuming brakes are in good working order
to start
>with?>I know the saying - don't fix it if its not broke, but
I'm pretty
sure at
>130K miles, some preventative maintenance is
nice...
The only thing that may need rebuilding is the front calipers.
Check the
rears to look for leaks or seal damage. While you are at it, take
the
rotors off, take them to a brake shop, and ask to have them measured
for
warp and wear. No need to replace rotors if you don't
gotta.
>
>Where can I buy a rebuild kit?
At the Mitsu
dealer, where else?
If it was me, I'd take the front calipers off and
give them to somebody who
knows what he's doing.
>
>Also -
Where can I buy the "speed bleeders" ?? I will only be needing
to
>bleed my brakes once when I reinstall everything, so are the bleeders
worth
>it? I don't do any track driving.
Seems a waste of
time if you are only going to do it once. It's take longer
to install them
then it would to just bleed them with a buddy helping out.
>
>Also
- Any way to ~flush~ the brake lines of existing brake fluid?
Yeah. Dip
or suck out all the fluid from the reservoir. Refill with Ford
High
Performance Brake Fluid ($3/pint). Probably need two pints. Then,
keep
bleeding each wheel until the old fluid stops coming out and all you
see is
clear fluid. Didn't we just have this discussion?
Rich/old
poop
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 21:36:10
-0700
From: "Ricardo Cousar" <
rcousar@datawest.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Transfer Case recall
I ran across this link while looking for
parts. Hopefully it might help a
few people out. I just love stuff in
writing.
http://www.consumerreports.org/Recalls/Reports/all/DodgeStealthRTTurboandMitsubishi3000GTVR-491.html
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:55:33
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Transfer Case recall
Don't get too excited about this old,
old, old news item. Good find
though. For all Dodge TSBs (courtesy of Todd
Shelton) check out
http://www.brightok.net/~tds/Stsb.html
.
For all Mitsu TSBs and recalls (courtesy of 3000GT Online) check out
http://www.3000gt.com/tsbs.htm
.
Both these links and about 800 more are available on my web
site.
In related Consumer Reports news, the August 2000 issue (p. 16)
lists
the Dodge Stealth and Mitsu 3000GT as "Aging gracefully",
meaning
good reliability records for used cars. They don't
distinguish
between FWD and AWD models. Problem prone models? Camaro,
Firebird,
S-10, Mustang, Suburban, Cutlass, Grand Am, Grand Prix, and
many
other "U.S." models.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Ricardo Cousar" <
rcousar@datawest.net>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Sunday, December 10, 2000 9:36 PM
Subject: Team3S: Transfer Case
recall
I ran across this link while looking for parts. Hopefully it
might
help a few people out. I just love stuff in writing.
http://www.consumerreports.org/Recalls/Reports/all/DodgeStealthRTTurboandMitsubishi3000GTVR-491.html__________________________________________________
Do
You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#346
*********************