team3s
Friday, December 8
2000 Volume 01
: Number
345
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 8 Dec 2000 03:39:37 -0600
From: "Vineet Singh \(3S\)" <
stealthtt@ecanfix.com>
Subject:
Team3S: FWIW, my tranny experiences
MY 92 Stealth RT/TT bought with 80k
on it = BAD 1st gear synchro...
rest seems ok. BG synchroshift help overall
feel, but not that
synchro.
Neighbor's 92 3000GT VR4 with 58k on it =
Just got reamed about 5
months ago... Bad tranny (1st, 2nd and 5th synchro's
nearly shot).
Total Stealership bill? 7000. They gave him new brake pads as
a
freebie. $7000... and he PAID for it.
Friends 94 3000GT VR4 with
60k'ish miles, = Got a new tranny just
before purchase... grinding in some
gears, not too many details known.
Stealth owner I met in my area with
66k miles = Just had a tranny
replaced by his "uncles shop". He happened to
have an identical car to
mine, but in pearl white.
That 60,000 mile
theory sounds like a ringer (again, there are
exceptions to every rule, but
this is a damn obvious track record.)
Vineet 'Vinny' Singh
http://www.ecanfix.com/~doordoctor/
- Door panel blisters/bubbles?
http://manualcd.dsm.org - DSM & 3/S
Service manuals on CDROM
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 11:46:33
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: FWIW, my tranny experiences
I once spoke with a rep of Mitsu
here in Switzerland and he reported about
8 tranny faliures ALLOVER
continental EUROPE (not UK). In fact all failures
they had started due to
other problems like broken parts in the clutch and
then wrong work from the
mechanic who changed the parts ! Same happend to
me as a sping in the clutch
boke (!) and it had to be changed. The
installation was done bad and it
slipped again after a few hundred kms.
Then I noticed that my front wheels
are slipping when I gave too much gas
and we found out that the output shaft
was grinded down. Mitsu then decided
to replace the whole tranny and
transfer case at no cost for me (4 years
old car) and I got a Merc SL for
those 3 days for free. Now M having about
70k on the car, about 40k on this
tranny and zero problems. In Europe the
2nd gens have NO REPORTS and the all
other porblems always occured after
bad work ! In UK they have more failures
due to much grey inports from
straneg sources. BTW, only a few 3s are used
on any track over Europe.....
racing is a possible cause for failures
!
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 11:01:36
-0500
From: Michael Reid <
mreid@magma.ca>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Redline bad for Getrags ??
I can't find the web page now, but I've seen a
page where BMW Getrag sychro
problems were documented. I beleive the author
also felt that the bronze/brass
coating was an issue. Apparently these are
"sulfur sensitive" and just go bad
after a while... ? Or perhaps brass and
bronze should not be combined...
Anyone know if GL-5 fluids have sulfur
?
I'm 2nd owner of my 94 RT/TT and the first owner had the tranny
replaced
sometime
before 40,000 miles. I've got 70,000 miles on it now but
no problems yet,
other
than the very occasional crunch into 2nd from 1st.
I shift slowly though.
I DO want to change to a synthetic, since the
tranny shifts like mollasses
for the first 5-10 minutes at 20 below
zero...
BTW, somebody mentioned that having the transfer case output
shaft inspected
could be a yearly thing... Is it really that easy and thus
inexpensive to
have checked ?
I could use the peace of mind (or the bad
news, but the xfer case is not
too
expensive).
Mike.
>I don't think any owner survey could
tell you that info, not many teardowns
>done so it would be conjecture on
their part. Frank at Kormex provided
>a list at one time --- synchros were
NOT 1st on his list. From my limited
>experience I would say the
bronze/brass coating on the cones fails. If
>the car is driven too long
with bad synchros the face gears get ground up
>also thus destroying the
drive gear.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:20:44
-0000
From: "Susan ." <
vr4girl@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 2nd tranny failure
You guys are great! I'm needing info on
tranny parts; I've searched through
the list archives, and there's so many
issues of this, I'm hoping for some
more specific direction. My '91
VR-4 (bought it at 70K in '97) had the 1st
tranny replaced at 50K, and now
has a busted transfer case rod (34K on new
tranny).
Dealership's told
me they can't replace the part, and want $8k to put whole
new
tranny/transfer case unit in (no warranty). I've downloaded a stack of
files
on similar issues on my yr/make/model from NHTSA, but all owner's
names are
confidential, so luckily, I've found this list!
I've found a shop that
will do the replacement for $4K (they've located a
used unit), which still
hurts! So, 1) I've downloaded the 'parts list' and
am in process of
searching it, but don't know if I have the terminology
correct for this
part, and 2)I'm in Houston, TX and would love to know of a
trusted mechanic
who knows these machines, and will do this replacement
properly.
Any
information would be greatly appreciated - I sure miss driving
it...
Susan
vr4girl@hotmail.comP.S. - don't
race it (though I've thought about it!), no aftermarket parts,
and haven't
used Redline since I've owned
it!!
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get
more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 20:25:45
-0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Once again: Getrag bought by Dana
A Toyota dealership in
Houston sponsored copying all the internal parts in
the supra
transmission. That dealer now sells to other Toyota dealers
and
customers who need the parts.
Jay Marks Toyota, if I am not
mistaken is the dealer who did this.
Has anyone checked into having parts
produced for the 5/6 speed
transmissions?
Brad
Check out my home
page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Merritt
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 1:41 PM
To: Curt
Gendron;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Once again: Getrag bought by Dana
I will be much happier
when I see something like this in print or on a
website, with prices and part
numbers..
I don't have any problems at the moment, but I have only 50,000
more miles
to go before the 2nd gear syncro fails
again.
Rich
>
>The idea of not having parts available for
our Getrags, is slowly becoming
a
>thing of the past. Kormax now
sells 1-2 and 3-4 syncros. A good friend of
>mine has also spoken to
another Getrag rebuild shop, (that shal remain
>nameless for now) that was
willing to sell any gears or syncros from our
>trannies. This
situation may have been slightly under the table, but I
>think the days of
us not getting parts, is coming to an end.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 20:25:44
-0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Redline bad for Getrags ??
From what I remember about my
all-trac it had just a little loop for the
oil-cooler (short u-bend like a PS
cooler) It would be super easy to add a
cooler to it
though. That transmission actually had an oil-pump built into
it
internally.
An oil-cooler might be a good idea in the 3000's.
I suppose one would have
to figure out optimum operating temps and size a
cooler accordingly.
As for the All-trac tranny. The gears separate
in 3rd and 4th gear when you
put ~450hp through it. This then
cracks the case and leaves the car in a
nice flat spin :)
The
internals are not nearly as large as the getrag parts
either.
Brad
Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler [
mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
Sent:
Thursday, December 07, 2000 9:36 PM
To: Brad Bedell
Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Redline bad for Getrags ??
Brad:
I dunno how relevant
this is, but the Celica AllTrac tranny is pretty much
bulletproof, the only
-major- thing I can tell from outside the tranny is
that it has as OEM, an
external oil cooler for the gearbox.
I cant see it'd be difficult to do
this on the VR4, nice side-access drain
plug (and fill of course)...couple
fittings, a 12v fluid pump, few hoses,
and a
cooler.
Thoughts?
Cant HURT.
On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Brad
Bedell wrote:
> I've been inside several
transmissions...
>
> While there are some design questions out
there, let us consider this:
>
> We should be thankful that the
gears in these transmissions. Mustang
> transmissions usually
shatter the whole gear assemblies.
> There are several of us who have had
zero transmission problems with two
> years of hard driving.
(me)
>
> I know of only a few transmissions that have actually given
up from abuse.
> (meaning gears break, case breaks etc).
>
>
My thoughts/theory is that the steel syncro rings that are coated with
>
brass-like friction material is not as wear resistant as it should be
for
> the gears to mesh properly.
> Meaning there is too much
inertia from the gears for the chosen material
on
> the
syncro.
>
>
> Most of the transmission problems have come from
parts that are designed
to
> wear out.
>
> As for
redline. MTL and MT-90 has a friction additive that
actually
helps
> the syncro rings have more friction to bring the next
gear up to speed.
>
> The redline ATF is designed to be used in a
totally different situation.
>
> Even good synthetic oils will cause
problems in our trannys if they don't
> have a friction additive. (BG
Syncro-shift is suppose to have this also)
>
>
> Brad
>
Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/>
E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Jim Berry
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 3:30 PM
>
To: Jeff Lucius;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Redline bad for Getrags ??
>
>
Jeff
>
> I don't think any owner survey could tell you that info,
not many
teardowns
> done so it would be conjecture on their part.
Frank at Kormex provided
> a list at one time --- synchros were NOT 1st on
his list. From my limited
> experience I would say the bronze/brass
coating on the cones fails. If
> the car is driven too long with bad
synchros the face gears get ground up
> also thus destroying the drive
gear.
>
> BTY --- great write-up on the trans. I'm going to have to
study the VCU a
> little more. How is the shaft removed, or held in place,
I couldn't tell
> from
> the photos. Also on the synchro write-up
you might point out that the
> assembled 1st/2nd set is not in neutral but
has 1st gear
selected.
>
> Jim
Berry
> =================================================
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Hi Rich,
> >
> > Did the survey say what it is that so
commonly fails on the 1-2
> > synchro? Is it the cone? Sleeve clutch
gear teeth? Bearing? Hub
> > splines? For parts reference please see my
web page:
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 18:05:52
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: FWIW, my tranny experiences
Hmmm, we got the slightly larger
13g compressor wheels due to the fact that
we can run on faster speeds on
the Autobahns. Maybe we also have a larger
oil cooler, I don't know. Our
temp range is between -20°C in winter and
+35°C in summer (here in
Switzerland) so this is also a wide range.
My car was the only official
imported car, sold by Mitsu that had a tranny
replaced here in Switzerland.
This is one out of about 350 or so. There
where two Stealths (never imported
by Chrysler) who had the problem but
they do not count them. In general,
Mitsu highly recommend to run only the
oils they are recommending (Castrol)
locally and change it every 7500 km in
the engine and only at the 100'000km
service in the tranny.
We can only speculate what the differences are
(besides of brakes and ECU).
And when they replaced the tranny in my car it
was shipped down from the
Netherlands (central organization of Mitsu) and
the one they took out was
sent back to Getrag.
Well, in any case,
I'll try to speak with the guy at Getrag next week .. in
German, although I
heard he is from the north, so maybe Mikael can help
out,
hehe.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.chAt 09:12 08.12.2000 -0600,
Willis, Charles E. wrote:
>Roger, if you believe the number of 8 within
Europe, then either there are
>maybe only 16 VR4's in Europe, including
the three that run on the track!
>Seriously, if the failure rate is
significantly lower in Europe (the
>Southern Arctic), then maybe there is
an overheating problem in the
>semi-tropical US that would be helped by an
oversized transmission oil
>cooler. I recall a similar climatic
difference in the reliability of the
>Volkwagen
Beatle.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:53:35
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Redline bad for Getrags ??
My 95 VR-4 is on its 3rd tranny--the
first had synchro problems 36k(dealer
said it was okay), but replaced it due
to leaks (porous metal prob). It
leaked through a general area on the
case --but no cracks? The second was
also leaking at the junction btwn
the transf. case and gearbox 55k. The
third is okay after about 30,000
miles, but....... I do not expect any
miracles like 120k---I figure I
will upgrade to a 99 VR-4 in a year or so.
I like the car, and have very
little problems with it as a daily driver, but
I am one of those believers in
the 60k Merritt rule--oh and if you try to
shift while the wheels are
spinning it grinds going into second :)
Sam
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To:
Bill Wagner <
wagner@sprynet.com>;
OrangeFell@aol.com<
OrangeFell@aol.com>;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Friday, December 08, 2000 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Redline bad for
Getrags ??
>Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou
>Bless your pea
pickin' heart.
>
>Rich
>
>At 12:55 AM 12/8/00 -0500,
Bill Wagner wrote:
>>Kenneth:
>>
>>Many of us have
been on this list, as well as several other lists, for
>>years. We've
sat and watched the Getrags drop like rain drops.
>>
>>I used
to do a fair amount of research on the problem, since I was
naive
>>enough to think that if reasonable and accurate data was being
presented
>>to Mitsubishi and Chrysler that they would become concerned
and take
>>some action to correct the problems. I had data from about
150 owners,
>>but Jack Tartadian had A LOT MORE....maybe he could
confirm or deny what
>>I'm saying. For what it's worth, what "Rich old
poop" says about the
>>failure rates is pretty much right on the money,
particularly with the
>>50K +/-10K miles
figure.
>
>*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:14:48
-0500
From: "WALTER D. BEST" <
WDBO39@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
FWIW, my tranny experiences
Maybe it's just me but I have over 93,000 on
my car, I am the original
owner, purchased it new in Aug 92. Switched
over to Mobil 1 gear lube at
around 1000 miles just changed it at 90K and
haven't had a bit of problems
with the trans, transfer case or diff. I
don't drive the car like I am 90,
and have done a few performance mods.
The only thing left for me to do is a
set of 660 -720cc fuel injector and
either 15Gs or GT355 turbos.
As a matter of fact I have spent a total of
$180 in repairs since I
purchased the car and $160 or that was for the window
motor assembly.
If anyone is interested in the mods I have done you are
more than welcome to
pull up my web page, listed below.
Dave
Best
http://ifrag.ncsa.uiuc.edu/best/But
again it could just be me, because I had a Jaguar XJS, one of the old
ones
with the V12 engine. Had it for 8 years and didn't have any
major
problems with it either. The only reason I sold it was I got the
VR4 and
wasn't driving it enough to keep the battery
charged.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Vineet Singh
(3S)" <
stealthtt@ecanfix.com>
To:
"Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, December 08, 2000 4:39 AM
Subject: Team3S: FWIW, my tranny
experiences
> MY 92 Stealth RT/TT bought with 80k on it = BAD 1st
gear synchro...
> rest seems ok. BG synchroshift help overall feel, but
not that
> synchro.
>
> Neighbor's 92 3000GT VR4 with 58k on
it = Just got reamed about 5
> months ago... Bad tranny (1st, 2nd and 5th
synchro's nearly shot).
> Total Stealership bill? 7000. They gave him new
brake pads as a
> freebie. $7000... and he PAID for it.
>
>
Friends 94 3000GT VR4 with 60k'ish miles, = Got a new tranny just
> before
purchase... grinding in some gears, not too many details known.
>
>
Stealth owner I met in my area with 66k miles = Just had a tranny
>
replaced by his "uncles shop". He happened to have an identical car to
>
mine, but in pearl white.
>
> That 60,000 mile theory sounds like a
ringer (again, there are
> exceptions to every rule, but this is a damn
obvious track record.)
>
> Vineet 'Vinny' Singh
>
http://www.ecanfix.com/~doordoctor/
- Door panel blisters/bubbles?
>
http://manualcd.dsm.org - DSM & 3/S
Service manuals on CDROM
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 08:54:35
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: FWIW, my tranny experiences
> I once spoke with a rep of
Mitsu here in Switzerland and he
> reported about 8 tranny faliures
ALLOVER continental
> EUROPE (not UK).
I don't think I'd consider
that source necessarily reliable. Kinda like
asking the manufacturer of
the Hindenberg or the Titanic if their transports
are safe. Of course
the answer is "yes". (Not that I'm comparing
transmissions with
man-made disasters)
> In UK they have more failures due to much grey
inports
> from straneg sources. BTW, only a few 3s are used on
> any
track over Europe..... racing is a possible cause
> for failures
!
Why would there be more failures depending on where it is imported
from?
They are all the same exact trannys from the same exact supplier
(Getrag),
are they not?
Of course racing is a possible cause of
failures, but there are people that
have reported failures on completely
street-driven daily-use unmodified cars
(including one person I know very
well).
Are they reliable for some people? Yes.
Are they
unreliable for other people? Yes.
Seems like it is at least
partially luck of the draw as others have said.
Either you get one with good
workmanship and materials and it lasts a good
long time, or you get one with
poor workmanship or materials and it
disintegrates in a very short period of
time.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 08:45:51
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: FWIW, my tranny experiences
> That 60,000 mile theory
sounds like a ringer (again, there are
> exceptions to every rule, but
this is a damn obvious track record.)
A very good friend of mine, whose
car I know the whole history of, had three
5-speed Getrags replaced on his
bone-stock '91 VR4 in under 100,000 miles.
On his, two of the failures were
output shaft splines and the third failure
was the 1-2 synchro. He
drives hard, but not excessively so. Most of his
driving is
daily-commute sort of driving with some autocrosses thrown
in
occasionally.
My cars ('94 VR4, completely stock and '95 Spyder VR4
- stage 8 upgraded)
haven't had any tranny problems so far (knock on
wood). I put about 20,000
miles on the '94 with no problems and the
owner after me hasn't had trouble
to the best of my knowlege either. I
drove/drive both hard but not
abusively.
Seems like the early 1G cars
are more prone to tranny failure - mostly with
output shafts and
synchros.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 07:58:58
-0800
From: "Chris Maxwell" <
shmacker@home.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Redline bad for Getrags ??
have you ever owned a Porsche,
Ferrari, or Lamborgini (the water-cooled
Porsches are much more reliable than
the old ones)? I hear they have
HORRIBLE reliability. They run
for like 2 weeks and then something breaks.
Maybe it's not the tranny, but I
assure you whatever breaks will cost more
than double what it would on our
cars. You would think that if you spent
over $100k for a "quality"
sports car that you could "drive it like you
stole it" and nothing should
break.
I still maintain that our trannies are of good quality and it's
the overall
design of the car + the way they are driven that leads to the
"premature
failures." With so much power and AWD, something has to
break, and the
tranny is the most complex part of the driveline system.
Just apply
Murphy's Law.
Chris
P.S. Even honda had a bad batch
of engines go into S2000s. The blocks were
cast too porous, and coolant
was leaking through them. Was there a recall?
No, Honda just replaced
the engines (under waranty) when the owners noticed
the problems. Just
goes to show you that no car is built perfect.
> Okay, Chris, you drew
me into this.
>
> 1. Porsche and BMW didn't build their cars
for track use, just
comfortable
> high speed driving, but they don't
rely on that excuse to provide a
marginal
> transmission.
>
2. If you make a product with a relatively high failure rate, then
you
are
> ethically bound to either make it inexpensive, or at least
make sure there
> are sufficient replacement parts. Mechanics
(professional and shade-tree)
> would hope that you would also take steps
to make it easily maintainable.
> 3. Virtually ALL US Mitsubishi
dealers will NOT rebuild your Getrag
> transmission. Why?
Because when the VR4 was introduced, the dealers were
> told that they
would have to purchase a "special tool set" to rebuild the
>
transmissions, and almost without exception, they chose NOT to make that
>
investment, thinking that it would be rare (money-losing investment).
>
4. There have been a lot of transmissions (both 5 speed and 6 speed)
that
> failed early in their life cycle. Many were replaced under
warranty. I
> have often wondered why there was not a recall on the
transmissions. I
> guess they figured that the engineering change to
the spline and the
change
> to the 6 speed would eliminate the
problems. It didn't.
> 5. When I was having some shifting
problems with my '93 VR4 this spring,
I
> spoke with a seasoned
mechanic who has rebuilt several VR4 transmissions.
> He talked about a
source for parts for the transmission that were machined
> out of better
material than the original equipment. I just don't remember
> the
source.
>
> The place is in Pearland, Texas and is called Morrow's
Transmissions. The
> number is
> 281-997-8200. The person you want
to speak to is Don Morrow.
>
>
Chuck
>
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 20:43:09
-0500
From: "Fred Richardson" <
rich@magma.ca>
Subject: Team3S: 18"
Rims
Dear List;
Just hit black ice at 30MPH and ran
into a curb sideways on a curve.
Both the stock chrome 18's on the left side
are toast. Insurance will
probably cover it , but I would like to know if
anyone has any used ones for
sale. I am in Canada near
Ottawa.
Fred,
'95 RT TT
#121
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 14:20:49
EST
From:
GTOTLR@cs.comSubject:
Team3S: Blitz SSBOV
I'm pretty sure everyone knows that the instructions
for Blitz and many other
performance products are in Japanese.
Therefore, can anyone provide or know
where I can find detailed instructions
for the installation of a Blitz SSBOV?
I believe that I need some sort
of kit but I am not sure.
Thanks in advance-----
Royal K. Watkins
III
Senior Programmer Analyst
Total System Services Inc.
1995 Black
3000GT VR-4
2000 Yellow TL1000R
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 18:50:41
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Redline bad for Getrags ??
True, but 450Hp in an alltrac
relates to 825 in a VR4..when adjusted to
match apples to apples.
On
Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Brad Bedell wrote:
> >From what I remember about
my all-trac it had just a little loop for the
> oil-cooler (short u-bend
like a PS cooler) It would be super easy to add a
> cooler to
it though. That transmission actually had an oil-pump built into
>
it internally.
>
> An oil-cooler might be a good idea in the
3000's. I suppose one would have
> to figure out optimum
operating temps and size a cooler accordingly.
>
> As for the
All-trac tranny. The gears separate in 3rd and 4th gear when you
>
put ~450hp through it. This then cracks the case and leaves the car
in a
> nice flat spin :)
>
> The internals are not nearly as
large as the getrag parts either.
>
>
> Brad
> Check
out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/>
E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Geoff Mohler [
mailto:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 9:36 PM
> To: Brad Bedell
> Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Redline bad for Getrags ??
>
> Brad:
>
> I dunno how relevant this is, but the Celica AllTrac tranny is pretty
much
> bulletproof, the only -major- thing I can tell from outside the
tranny is
> that it has as OEM, an external oil cooler for the
gearbox.
>
> I cant see it'd be difficult to do this on the VR4,
nice side-access drain
> plug (and fill of course)...couple fittings, a
12v fluid pump, few hoses,
> and a cooler.
>
>
Thoughts?
>
> Cant HURT.
>
> On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Brad
Bedell wrote:
>
> > I've been inside several
transmissions...
> >
> > While there are some design questions
out there, let us consider this:
> >
> > We should be thankful
that the gears in these transmissions. Mustang
> > transmissions
usually shatter the whole gear assemblies.
> > There are several of us
who have had zero transmission problems with two
> > years of hard
driving. (me)
> >
> > I know of only a few transmissions that
have actually given up from abuse.
> > (meaning gears break, case
breaks etc).
> >
> > My thoughts/theory is that the steel
syncro rings that are coated with
> > brass-like friction material is
not as wear resistant as it should be for
> > the gears to mesh
properly.
> > Meaning there is too much inertia from the gears for the
chosen material
> on
> > the syncro.
> >
>
>
> > Most of the transmission problems have come from parts that
are designed
> to
> > wear out.
> >
> > As for
redline. MTL and MT-90 has a friction additive that actually
>
helps
> > the syncro rings have more friction to bring the next gear up
to speed.
> >
> > The redline ATF is designed to be used in a
totally different situation.
> >
> > Even good synthetic oils
will cause problems in our trannys if they don't
> > have a friction
additive. (BG Syncro-shift is suppose to have this also)
> >
>
>
> > Brad
> > Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/>
> E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> [
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Jim Berry
> > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 3:30
PM
> > To: Jeff Lucius;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: Redline bad for Getrags ??
> >
> >
Jeff
> >
> > I don't think any owner survey could tell you
that info, not many
> teardowns
> > done so it would be
conjecture on their part. Frank at Kormex provided
> > a list at one
time --- synchros were NOT 1st on his list. From my limited
> >
experience I would say the bronze/brass coating on the cones fails. If
>
> the car is driven too long with bad synchros the face gears get ground
up
> > also thus destroying the drive gear.
> >
> >
BTY --- great write-up on the trans. I'm going to have to study the VCU
a
> > little more. How is the shaft removed, or held in place, I
couldn't tell
> > from
> > the photos. Also on the synchro
write-up you might point out that the
> > assembled 1st/2nd set is not
in neutral but has 1st gear selected.
> >
>
> Jim Berry
> >
=================================================
> > ----- Original
Message -----
> > From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
>
>
> > > Hi Rich,
> > >
> > > Did the
survey say what it is that so commonly fails on the 1-2
> > >
synchro? Is it the cone? Sleeve clutch gear teeth? Bearing? Hub
> >
> splines? For parts reference please see my web page:
> >
>
>
> >
> > *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> >
> >
> > *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> >
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 20:47:47
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 2nd tranny failure
>Dealership's told me they can't
replace the part, and want $8k to put whole
>new tranny/transfer case
unit in (no warranty). >I've found a shop that
will do the replacement for
$4K (they've located a
>used unit), which still hurts!
I feel for
all you people who have bad dealers. It might be worth it to
have your car
trailered to Zimmerman Ford Mitsubishi here in Cedar Rapids,
Iowa. They
replaced my '94 6 speed with a new factory tranny for $3,000
(covered by
warranty).
And what's this "no warranty" stuff? If Mitsu puts in a new
tranny, it
comes with a 12-month factory warranty.
Rich/old
poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 12:09:45
-0600
From: "Greg S." <
wizards@mhtc.net>
Subject: Getrag
Failures (WASRe: Team3S: Redline bad for Getrags ??)
With all these
studies and documented evidence of pre-mature failure, I can't
help but
wonder if Chrysler and Mitsu (and Getrag for that matter) have the
same
information and documentation and are fully aware and convinced that
there IS
a problem, but are refusing to acknowledge it for fear that they'd
get into a
"Firestone" situation where they'd have to replace all trannies
with
something completely different or super reinforced. Firestone had
tons
of evidence in their possession about the failure rates and fatalities,
but
refused to acknowledge them until their hand got caught in the cookie
jar.
Just makes me wonder.
Any lawyers in the group familiar with the
legal implications of the Firestone
deal and how those laws / regulations
could possibly be applied to our
situation? With a very low mileage TT
I don't have a problem with my tranny
yet (knocking VERY hard and rapidly on
my desk), but I'm wise enough to accept
the inevitable that it may one day be
a problem.
Greg
Merritt wrote:
> I can't take all
this support!
> I'm not used to it.
> Thanks, Cody
>
>
Rich
>
> At 12:46 AM 12/8/00 -0600, cody wrote:
> >I
concur. <snip> With those things - it's like a time
>
>bomb and no one knows what the clock has on it..<snip>.
>
>With the Getrags, it just seems 60K miles is their average lifespan,
with
> >some exceptions both more and less.
> >
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:02:52
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 5pt seats WITH rails needed..
Anyone have any 'sperience with any
vendors that have a 5pt seat
for the VR4 with a sliding rail
kit?
Coming soon this eve..photos of my Tilton flywheel/clutch
combination.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:12:25
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
2nd tranny failure
Susan
Not sure what you actually need ---
'transfer case rod' dosn't sound like the
correct name. If it's the output
shaft to the transfer case you can get a
replacement part. Your best bet is
to talk to Frank at Kormex and see what
he has to say. Kormex sells
reconditioned transmissions and transfer cases
and Frank has shown himself to
be very helpful. He has even been willing to
talk to your mechanic and help
him out.
Kormex Trans Parts
2151 E. Philadelphia
Ontario,
Ca 91761
(800)
429-5464
Jim
berry
====================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Susan . <
vr4girl@hotmail.com>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
My
'91 VR-4 (bought it at 70K in '97) had the 1st
> tranny replaced at 50K,
and now has a busted transfer case rod (34K on new
> tranny).
>
> Dealership's told me they can't replace the part, and want $8k to put
whole
> new tranny/transfer case unit in (no warranty). I've downloaded a
stack of
> files on similar issues on my yr/make/model from NHTSA, but
all owner's
> names are confidential, so luckily, I've found this
list!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:41:13
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Tilton clutch photos
http://www.speedtoys.com/~gemohler/vr4/Its
an OEM sized flywheel, but aluminum with a replacable steel face, the
clutch
housing is..aluminum, dual plate.
Entire flywheel/clutch weight is
14lbs.
Anyone care to guess what a stock flywheel, clutch disc, and
pressure
plate weighs?
Cost: $1600 or so.
Use:
DEFINITELY not for dragracing or the street..unless youre somewhat
careful
about hot starts off green lights.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:57:23
-0500
From: "Trent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Porterfield Sales
All/Rich
Could Rich or anyone else point
me in the best direction for ordering
Porterfield brake parts? Speaking
of brake parts, Rich has recommended Ford
brake fluid in the past, is this
Ford racing brake fluid or just plain Ford
brake fluid? Will there be any
compatability issues with Motul that is
currently in my lines?
Thanks
in
advance,
DaveT/92TT
_______________________________________________
Why
pay for something you could get for free?
NetZero provides FREE Internet
Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:42:22
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Porterfield Sales
www.porterfield-brakes.comOn
Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Trent wrote:
> All/Rich
>
> Could Rich
or anyone else point me in the best direction for ordering
> Porterfield
brake parts? Speaking of brake parts, Rich has recommended Ford
>
brake fluid in the past, is this Ford racing brake fluid or just plain
Ford
> brake fluid? Will there be any compatability issues with Motul that
is
> currently in my lines?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
DaveT/92TT
>
>
_______________________________________________
> Why pay for something
you could get for free?
> NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and
Email
>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 21:47:40
-0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tilton clutch photos
Looks similar to the OS Giken in
design. (Except the Giken setup looks to
have a larger disk
area)
However, the Giken is not 14lbs.
As for stock
weight... 36lbs :)
Brad
Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Geoff Mohler
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 9:41 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Tilton clutch photos
http://www.speedtoys.com/~gemohler/vr4/Its
an OEM sized flywheel, but aluminum with a replacable steel face, the
clutch
housing is..aluminum, dual plate.
Entire flywheel/clutch weight is
14lbs.
Anyone care to guess what a stock flywheel, clutch disc, and
pressure
plate weighs?
Cost: $1600 or so.
Use:
DEFINITELY not for dragracing or the street..unless youre somewhat
careful
about hot starts off green lights.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 21:51:41
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Porterfield Sales
>Could Rich or anyone else point me in
the best direction for ordering
>Porterfield brake parts?
Go to
www.porterfieldbrakes.com or call
them at 949/548-4470
We get a 20% discount on parts because of the list. Be
sure to mention it.
I don't know what to tell you to do with a 92 car. I
hope you are not
trying to go racing with 92 brakes.
Eeek!
Speaking of brake parts, Rich has recommended
Ford
>brake fluid in the past, is this Ford racing brake fluid or just
plain Ford
>brake fluid?
Just plain old Ford High Performance Brake
Fluid, available at any Ford
dealer for $3 a pint. Best bargain in
racing.
Will there be any compatability issues with Motul that
is
>currently in my lines?
Probably. It would be best to completely
flush the old fluid out and
replace it all with the Ford fluid. That's fairly
easy to do. Just dip or
suck out all the old fluid from the reservoir, and
fill with new Ford
fluid. Working one wheel at a time, keep bleeding until
the color of fluid
changes (I think Motul is red and Ford is clear). At $3 a
can, it's no big
expense.
If you are racing with this system, I have
further advice on care and
feeding of the brake fluid..
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:56:43
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tilton clutch photos
Giken is probly more a drag clutch
then..yes? (just guessing)
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Brad Bedell
wrote:
> Looks similar to the OS Giken in design. (Except the
Giken setup looks to
> have a larger disk area)
>
> However,
the Giken is not 14lbs.
>
>
> As for stock
weight... 36lbs :)
>
>
> Brad
> Check out
my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/>
E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Geoff Mohler
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 9:41 PM
>
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Tilton clutch photos
>
>
http://www.speedtoys.com/~gemohler/vr4/>
> Its an OEM sized flywheel, but aluminum with a replacable steel face,
the
> clutch housing is..aluminum, dual plate.
>
> Entire
flywheel/clutch weight is 14lbs.
>
> Anyone care to guess what a
stock flywheel, clutch disc, and pressure
> plate weighs?
>
>
> Cost: $1600 or so.
> Use: DEFINITELY not for
dragracing or the street..unless youre somewhat
> careful about hot starts
off green lights.
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 06:58:41
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Trany failure rate (was: Redline bad for Getrags ??)
From Eric
Bowden's web page,
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9907/3s-production.htmlI
estimate that the total production of VR4s and TTs was something
like 28,000
cars - about 20% of total production. Does anyone here
really think that the
personal experiences of a small fraction of
something like 600 enthusiasts
(known for our modification desires if
not skills and racer tendencies) can
represent anything like a
scientific/accurate poll of the failure rate of AWD
transaxles in the
hands of Joe Average? I agree the synchros and the output
shaft are
problem areas, but I think sweeping generalizations regarding
the
"automatic" failure tendencies of our trannies does a disservice
to
the 3S community and our cars. Besides, a "rebuilt" trany ($1700)
is
still much cheaper than a set of 15G turbos or a set up TE37
wheels!
What? Are 9B turbos and 30-lb cast aluminum wheels design flaws
also?
(I know, I know, the answer is yes to the last question.)
:)
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com__________________________________________________
Do
You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 11:09:53
EST
From:
StealthCT@aol.comSubject: Team3S:
Parts
I would like to thank all of you who responded to my offer to sell
some parts. There some really nice people on this list which makes me
proud to be a 3000/Stealth owner. I have a set of 1994 Stealth TT Fog
Lights (working order) I will sell. Please contact me privately if you are
interested. Regards Charles
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:37:20
EST
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: FWIW, my tranny experiences
My 91 VR-4 has about 120,000 miles
and has been used for drag racing.
Not long ago it was opened to change the
output shaft to the stronger Kormex
type, just as a precaution. Looking at
the inside syncros, gears etc., the
tranny was still in excellent condition.
Just so you get both sides...
Arty 91 VR-4
In a message dated 12/8/00
1:36:49 AM Pacific Standard Time,
stealthtt@ecanfix.com
writes:
<< Subj: Team3S: FWIW, my tranny
experiences
Date: 12/8/00 1:36:49 AM Pacific Standard
Time
From:
stealthtt@ecanfix.com (Vineet Singh
(3S))
Sender:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
(Team3S)
>>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:07:49
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Redline bad for Getrags ??
Okay, Chris, you drew me into
this.
1. Porsche and BMW didn't build their cars for track use,
just comfortable
high speed driving, but they don't rely on that excuse to
provide a marginal
transmission.
2. If you make a product with a
relatively high failure rate, then you are
ethically bound to either make it
inexpensive, or at least make sure there
are sufficient replacement
parts. Mechanics (professional and shade-tree)
would hope that you
would also take steps to make it easily maintainable.
3. Virtually ALL
US Mitsubishi dealers will NOT rebuild your Getrag
transmission.
Why? Because when the VR4 was introduced, the dealers were
told that
they would have to purchase a "special tool set" to rebuild
the
transmissions, and almost without exception, they chose NOT to make
that
investment, thinking that it would be rare (money-losing
investment).
4. There have been a lot of transmissions (both 5 speed
and 6 speed) that
failed early in their life cycle. Many were replaced
under warranty. I
have often wondered why there was not a recall on the
transmissions. I
guess they figured that the engineering change to the
spline and the change
to the 6 speed would eliminate the problems. It
didn't.
5. When I was having some shifting problems with my '93 VR4
this spring, I
spoke with a seasoned mechanic who has rebuilt several VR4
transmissions.
He talked about a source for parts for the transmission that
were machined
out of better material than the original equipment. I
just don't remember
the source.
The place is in Pearland, Texas and is
called Morrow's Transmissions. The
number is
281-997-8200. The person you
want to speak to is Don Morrow.
Chuck
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Chris Maxwell [
SMTP:shmacker@home.com]
> Sent:
Friday, December 08, 2000 1:35 AM
> To:
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Redline bad for Getrags ??
>
> *In response to
a great many posts from some people I don't know or
> respect
> too
much currently...*
>
> I guess that I'm just lucky then...155k
miles on mine and it's still
> running? maybe it's a dream. someone
pinch me. I bought my car used with
> 68k miles and I asked the
previous owner if there was any replacement of
> major parts and he said
there wasn't so maybe my tranny is a fluke of
> nature... Btw, I
don't bother using Redline or BG Synchoshift either in
> my
>
tranny. I just use plain old Valvoline Synthetic. I'm also 21 yrs
old
> (bought the car when I was 17) so you can guess that I beat
the
> ever-loving-bad-stuff out of the car.
>
> I think
poling people from a list like this about tranny problems is wrong
>
anyways. It doesn't accurately represent the true cross-section of
>
3000GT/Stealth owners. Most people on these lists modify their cars
(just
> look at sigs) so of course reliability would be lower than
usual. I
> personally hardly EVER see a modified 3000GT/Stealth in
the SF Bay Area,
> but
> I see plenty of bone stock VR-4s/TTs.
Me and my friend actually know most
> of the people that have modified
their VR-4s around here because he likes
> to
> hunt them down when
he sees one, and he knows the owners most of the speed
> shops around
here. I'm guessing that less than 10% of people with VR-4/TT
> cars
modify them, and I bet less than 10% of VR-4/TT owners on this list
> (and
others like it) have bone stock cars. And of the people with bone
>
stock cars, I bet none of you drive them like they are stock. I might
be
> young and somewhat inexperienced, but this just doesn't seem like the
best
> place to ask a survey about reliability.
>
> So in
conclusion, end this stupid arguing about how long the tranny will
>
last. Trannies break in all cars, not just ours. Do you honestly
think
> that a 400hp (that's what most of us have right, or at least are
striving
> for?), AWD car with a tranny built for a mere 300hp and "Grand
Touring"
> type
> driving is going to last forever? Mitsu
didn't build these cars for track
> use, they were built as comfortable
high speed transports.
>
> Take care,
> Chris
> 92 R/T
TT (355 turbos, AVC-R, (bunch of other crap) and no common sense
> about
boost manipulation)
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:12:56
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: FWIW, my tranny experiences
Roger, if you believe the number
of 8 within Europe, then either there are
maybe only 16 VR4's in Europe,
including the three that run on the track!
Seriously, if the failure rate is
significantly lower in Europe (the
Southern Arctic), then maybe there is an
overheating problem in the
semi-tropical US that would be helped by an
oversized transmission oil
cooler. I recall a similar climatic
difference in the reliability of the
Volkwagen
Beatle.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger
Gerl [
SMTP:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 4:47 AM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: FWIW, my tranny experiences
>
> I once spoke
with a rep of Mitsu here in Switzerland and he reported about
>
> 8
tranny faliures ALLOVER continental EUROPE (not UK). In fact all
>
failures
> they had started due to other problems like broken parts in
the clutch and
>
> then wrong work from the mechanic who changed
the parts ! Same happend to
> me as a sping in the clutch boke (!) and it
had to be changed. The
> installation was done bad and it slipped again
after a few hundred kms.
> Then I noticed that my front wheels are
slipping when I gave too much gas
> and we found out that the output
shaft was grinded down. Mitsu then
> decided
> to replace the whole
tranny and transfer case at no cost for me (4 years
> old car) and I got
a Merc SL for those 3 days for free. Now M having about
>
> 70k on
the car, about 40k on this tranny and zero problems. In Europe the
> 2nd
gens have NO REPORTS and the all other porblems always occured after
>
bad work ! In UK they have more failures due to much grey inports from
>
straneg sources. BTW, only a few 3s are used on any track over
Europe.....
>
> racing is a possible cause for failures !
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch>
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 00:08:59
EST
From:
UNCLEDONUT@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Tilton clutch photos
In a message dated 12/8/00 10:38:08 PM Eastern
Standard Time,
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com
writes:
>
> Anyone care to guess what a stock flywheel,
clutch disc, and pressure
> plate weighs?
>
I'll weigh
my setup tomorrow and get back to you.
- -Dave Rich
'91 R/T
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 21:15:25
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Tilton clutch photos
Geoff
Speaking of clutches ---- how did that
oil pan baffle project turn out, are you
going to share the design with us
other wanna-be racer types. I'm concerned
about those long carousel turns
e.g. turn 2 at Willow springs.
Jim
Berry
=====================================================
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
> Its an OEM sized flywheel, but aluminum with a replacable steel face,
the
> clutch housing is..aluminum, dual plate.
>
> Entire
flywheel/clutch weight is 14lbs.
>
> Anyone care to guess what a
stock flywheel, clutch disc, and pressure
> plate weighs?
>
>
> Cost: $1600 or so.
> Use: DEFINITELY not for
dragracing or the street..unless youre somewhat
> careful about hot starts
off green lights.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 21:24:40
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tilton clutch photos
All you have to do is weld in baffles to
keep it from sloshing away...like
most gas tanks have.
On Fri, 8 Dec
2000, Jim Berry wrote:
> Geoff
>
> Speaking of clutches
---- how did that oil pan baffle project turn out, are you
> going to
share the design with us other wanna-be racer types. I'm concerned
> about
those long carousel turns e.g. turn 2 at Willow springs.
>
> Jim Berry
>
=====================================================
>
>
----- Original Message -----
> From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
>
> > Its an OEM sized flywheel, but aluminum with a replacable
steel face, the
> > clutch housing is..aluminum, dual plate.
>
>
> > Entire flywheel/clutch weight is 14lbs.
> >
>
> Anyone care to guess what a stock flywheel, clutch disc, and
pressure
> > plate weighs?
> >
> >
> >
Cost: $1600 or so.
> > Use: DEFINITELY not for dragracing
or the street..unless youre somewhat
> > careful about hot starts off
green lights.
>
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 23:41:29
-0600
From: "Eric Cheek" <
echeek@cox-internet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Transmission failures
Hello all,
just joined the list a couple
days ago since I've purchased a 92 VR4 the
first of November and decided that
I should research it a bit for perf mods
and the likes. now it looks like my
car may have tranny probs that actually
cost more than the tranny probs I
have in my Jeep wranger(93 4 cylinder
2.2liter I4). I has a Jap built 5 speed
and I have replaced the transmission
4 times now ... I can't get "new" parts
for it, and about the only choice is
to buy a new tranny ...don't even ask
the cost on that or buy a used tranny.
It takes about 3-8 months to find a
used one so now I collect them, 1 in the
Jeep and 2 in the garage (Purchased
for cheap from other club members
upgrading to stronger tranny/motor combos)
The biggest reason the tranny's
fail is because of the gearing and the way
third gear is made. It has an
"oil port" through the gear, and 3rd is the
most used gear, so third gear
cracks, breaks and takes out the entire cluster
..... Also the synchros are
known for failure. My latest tranny has ran
perfect for much longer that any
of the others and I am running castrol 20W50
full synthetic motor oil in it.
The rebuilder said that the cleaners/anti
oxidizers help maintain the life
of the synchros and help prevent any
moisture getting to the gears. (Like I
said hard core 4-wheeling)
Any back
to the VR4, I've only had it a month and its my daily driver and I
LOVE to
drive it, if the tranny fails then I will have it fixed/replaced
even if I
have to sell my Jeep to do it.(and I told my wife she would go
before the
Jeep would ... long story :)... but I do love my wife to death
;-) ) Has "
Kormex Trans Parts" or anyone else done any real testing on the
internals of
the Getrag for manufacturing flaws ? Things like hardness
tests, carbon
content, cell type (perlite etc)? I would think some basic
metallurgy tests
would show if there were some major defects. And there
might be something
with the metal reacting negatively to some substances
which could be tested
for. I would think Getrag would test for these type
things expecially with
the caliber of car their transmissions are going in,
and lastly my vote is
for someone copying/cloning the Getrag internals with
better parts so we can
all buy them and get on to the next weak link in the
wonderful cars we drive,
just think we could all have Ugos :)......
Eric Cheek, Stock 92VR4 with
nonfunctioning AERO and Active Suspension, but
the turbos kick and the Active
exhaust works :)....
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#345
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