team3s           Thursday, November 30 2000           Volume 01 : Number 336




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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:47:54 -0500
From: "brandon thomas" <a3kgtlvr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: unpluged MAS make my car run better?

Ok guys if you dont remember my car has had a miss/backfiring problem. It
only happens after 4k rpms and misses a little and pops out the exhaust. It
has done this since I have had my engine rebuilt. Today I unpluged my Mass
airflow sensor to make my car run lean and it worked. My car didnt miss at
all but is running with the mas unpluged hurting the car? Another thing I
noticed when I replaced my crank angle sensor and forgot to adjust my timing
it ran without missing. I adjusted the timing and now its missing again.
What could be the problem do I just need a little more fuel? The block was
bored out .030 over but I would think the computer would compensate for the
oversize.  Oh yea as a final thought, It also doesnt miss when the motor is
cold. If I blocked off the EGR valve would that have any affect on how it
runs when its hot?  I have replaced the obvious, plugs, plug wires, and my
car is bone stock. Thanks again for helping me out.

Brandon Thomas
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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:48:27 -0500
From: "brandon thomas" <a3kgtlvr@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: unpluged MAS makes my car run better?

Ok guys if you dont remember my car has had a miss/backfiring problem. It
only happens after 4k rpms and misses a little and pops out the exhaust. It
has done this since I have had my engine rebuilt. Today I unpluged my Mass
airflow sensor to make my car run lean and it worked. My car didnt miss at
all but is running with the mas unpluged hurting the car? Another thing I
noticed when I replaced my crank angle sensor and forgot to adjust my timing
it ran without missing. I adjusted the timing and now its missing again.
What could be the problem do I just need a little more fuel? The block was
bored out .030 over but I would think the computer would compensate for the
oversize.  Oh yea as a final thought, It also doesnt miss when the motor is
cold. If I blocked off the EGR valve would that have any affect on how it
runs when its hot?  I have replaced the obvious, plugs, plug wires, and my
car is bone stock. Thanks again for helping me out.

Brandon Thomas
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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:18:15 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Front end advice

Here's what I am thinking about for the front end. Please jump in with any
comments or suggestions.

First, remove the cardboard/plastic panel under the front bumper.
Next, remove and shitcan the front air dam, motor and all.
Install NASCAR brake blowers up in there (I assume there will be room),
with ducts running to the rotors.
Next, fabricate a sheet metal undertray to protect the underside. It will
incorporate:
- -- front spoiler similar to TransAm cars; i.e., a flat lip that protrudes
4-6 in. from the front to provide downforce and direct air to the cooling
scoops. See http://www.cinjoracing.com/forsale.htm for a perfect example.
It's a little lower than I want to go, but that's the general idea.
- -- Three scoops across the front, embedded into the spoiler. Two on the
sides (about 12 in. wide x 1 in. high, fitting tight under the front
bumper) will gather air for brake cooling ducts. The center scoop (about 36
in. wide x 1 in. high, also snugged up under the front bumper) will route
air under the air conditioner radiator and direct air flow up into the main
radiator. I don't know what all the ductwork looks like up in
there--anybody got a photo showing what it looks like in front of the
radiator?

With luck, since I will only be going an inch lower than the edge of the
bumper, the spoiler won't drag on the street.

Finally, now that I will be forcing high pressure air into the engine
compartment, I'll raise the back of the hood 1 in. or so to let the air out.

The purpose of all this is to get better cooling of brakes and engine for
open track racing. Whaddaya think?

Rich/old poop/95 VR4

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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:59:48 -0500
From: "Michael D. Crose" <ncsu4me@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front end advice

Rich,

Unless I am wrong, raising the rear portion of the hood will cause air to
enter the rear due to the area of high pressure in front of the windshield. 
Would it be possible to put louvers in the hood blisters or make a raised
louver panel to take the place of the hood blister?  The front end idea
sound like a good plan, what are you going to use for the spoiler?

Michael D. Crose
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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:14:43 -0700
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front end advice

At 06:18 PM 11/29/00 , Merritt wrote:
>anybody got a photo showing what it looks like in front of the
>radiator?

No, but i know there is only about 1/4" gap between the rad. and condenser
at the bottom......




>Finally, now that I will be forcing high pressure air into the engine
>compartment, I'll raise the back of the hood 1 in. or so to let the air out.

I thought the back of the hood, at the wipers, was a high pressure point.
Creating an opening would force air IN.....

Wayne


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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:17:07 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front end advice

At 08:59 PM 11/29/00 -0500, Michael D. Crose wrote:
>Rich,
>
>Unless I am wrong, raising the rear portion of the hood will cause air to
>enter the rear due to the area of high pressure in front of the windshield. 

I don't see how it can enter when there's high pressure air already in
there trying to get out.

>Would it be possible to put louvers in the hood blisters or make a raised
>louver panel to take the place of the hood blister? 

I was trying to avoid cutting the hood.

The front end idea
>sound like a good plan, what are you going to use for the spoiler?

A piece of sheet metal. I figger I'll fab something out of cardboard or
foam, then take it to a tin bender.

Rich
>

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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:59:34 -0500
From: "Michael D. Crose" <ncsu4me@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front end advice

Rich,

The pressure is much greater on the outside of the hood than under the hood
especially at racing speeds because the flow is relatively smooth over the
hood and then is forced to change direction to flow over the windshield, so
the air stacks up right at the base of the windshield.  Under the hood the
air entering has many obstructions getting to the back of the engine bay so
most air flows through the radiator and under the engine.

Good luck with your car,
Michael D. Crose
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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 07:20:41 -0600
From: kalla@tripoint.org
Subject: Team3S: clutch adjustment help?

I was driving around last night dialing in my boost controller, and at a stop, I
had to apply more than the usual amount of force to put the car into first or
second gear from neutral. A couple of times after coming to a stop it almost
didn't want to go into first gear at all. It didn't grind or anything like that, the
shifter resisted moving. 

I don't seem to have this trouble from a roll, as a matter of fact, it shifts
really smoothly when I'm already in motion. 

I parked the car on a flat surface, put it in first, pushed the clutch pedal to
the floor, applied throttle, and slowly let out the clutch pedal. The vr-4
started to move almost immediatly after I let the pedal out a very tiny
amount. 

I just replaced my clutch about 5000 miles ago. 

What's going on here? Does my clutch pedal need adjustment, or might
there be an issue with the master cylinder? 

Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org


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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 07:16:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: Majordomo update

To add more automation to the adjudication of our current rules, messages
with the word 'virus' or 'VIRUS' will now be stripped from the mailing
list.

Just mentioning this so if it doesnt work..you know why.

happy boosting.


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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 08:04:33 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front end advice

> At 08:59 PM 11/29/00 -0500, Michael D. Crose wrote:
> >Rich,
> >
> >Unless I am wrong, raising the rear portion of the hood will cause air to
> >enter the rear due to the area of high pressure in front of the windshield. 
>
> I don't see how it can enter when there's high pressure air already in
> there trying to get out.
>
NASCAR boys use that area for their air intake so, at least in a stock car,
that would be a high pressure area. We went over this once before and came
to the conclusion that some energetic soul should tape some pieces of yarn
to the hood and see where it goes [ remove the rubber seal first of course ].
=====================================================
> The front end idea
> >sound like a good plan, what are you going to use for the spoiler?
>
> A piece of sheet metal. I figger I'll fab something out of cardboard or
> foam, then take it to a tin bender.

I was under the impression that a properly designed front splitter would
provide a couple of hundred pounds of down force --- sheet metal won't
support that.
=====================================================

        Jim Berry



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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:01:58 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front end advice

>The pressure is much greater on the outside of the hood than under the hood
>especially at racing speeds because the flow is relatively smooth over the
>hood and then is forced to change direction to flow over the windshield, so
>the air stacks up right at the base of the windshield.  Under the hood the
>air entering has many obstructions getting to the back of the engine bay so
>most air flows through the radiator and under the engine.
>
Is this based on anything you read, such as wind tunnel tests, design
specs, or whatever? Or just a good guess? The cutting of my hood depends on
it.

Rich

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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 08:23:32 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: clutch adjustment help?

Hi Walton,

I experience these symptoms too.  My clutch engagement/disengagement point
sometimes becomes closer to the floor making it more difficult to shift from a
standstill (when moving, shifting is always easy because of synchros).  I've
replaced the clutch master cylinder, clutch slave cylinder, bled the system
several times, and adjusted the pedal.  I haven't replaced the vacuum booster
though.  I still occasionally get the symptoms, usually when it gets very cold.
Maybe the problem is fluid related.

If your engagement/disengagement point is always close to the floor, you can
adjust the clutch pedal.  Lengthen the rod that goes from the clutch pedal into
the vacuum booster (under the dash).  A little goes a long way, so try 1/2 turn
increments to see if that helps.

Good luck,
Ken


> I was driving around last night dialing in my boost controller, and at a stop, I
> had to apply more than the usual amount of force to put the car into first or
> second gear from neutral. A couple of times after coming to a stop it almost
> didn't want to go into first gear at all. It didn't grind or anything like that, the
> shifter resisted moving. 
> 
> I don't seem to have this trouble from a roll, as a matter of fact, it shifts
> really smoothly when I'm already in motion. 
> 
> I parked the car on a flat surface, put it in first, pushed the clutch pedal to
> the floor, applied throttle, and slowly let out the clutch pedal. The vr-4
> started to move almost immediatly after I let the pedal out a very tiny
> amount. 
> 
> I just replaced my clutch about 5000 miles ago. 
> 
> What's going on here? Does my clutch pedal need adjustment, or might
> there be an issue with the master cylinder? 

- --
If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now.

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics - Fusion Group, San Diego, CA

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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:37:50 -0500
From: "Michael D. Crose" <ncsu4me@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front end advice

Rich,

This idea that there is an aera of high pressure at the base of the
windshield is also the theory behind cowl induction used on NASCAR stock
cars, 1972 Chevelle SS, and Racingbeat makes a cowl induction mod for the
Miata.  I will try what Jim mentioned, taping some yarn at the base of the
windshield and see where is goes.

Jim had a good point about the front spoiler, most of the ones I have seen
are made of carbonfiber which is much stonger and lighter for its size than
steel.  I have seen some kits available that have a spoiler that is bolted
with hinges at the rear of the spoiler and has a toggle bolt that allows the
adjustment of the angle of attack the spoiler makes with the ground.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MImg&_imagekey=B6V1Y-3VTSRHF-1-1&_udi=B6V1Y-3VTSRHF-1&_cdi=5687&_orig=search&_coverDate=08%2F09%2F1996&_sk=999839991&_acct=C000015398&_version=1&_userid=290868&md5=a47ec9af39c20c80495a85818289375f&ie=f.pdf

on page 11 of this journal W. Angelis et al. says

In the vertical-front part of the car a sudden deceleration of the flow [of
air] takes place, resulting in a rise of the static pressure.  The flow then
accelerates rapidly as it goes past the leading edge of the bonnet, creating
a pressure suction peak.  The pressure rises along the bonnet and reaches a
local maximum value at the bonnet windscreen juntion.

So this supports my thought that the louvers in the hood blisters would be
benifitial because of the pressure suction that takes place midway up the
hood, it also support the idea of cowl induction because the area of high
pressure at the base of the windshield will dissapate to the area of least
resistance, so if you raise the back of the hood air will rush into the
engine bay.

Michael D. Crose



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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:39:41 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front end advice

>steel.  I have seen some kits available that have a spoiler that is bolted
>with hinges at the rear of the spoiler and has a toggle bolt that allows the
>adjustment of the angle of attack the spoiler makes with the ground.
>
Wow! That means I could tuck it up tight around town and let it down on the
track. What a great idea! Thanks. I had been thinking of something along
those lines, but hadn't quite noodled it out yet.

Rich

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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:24:43 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Mini S. Cal 3S gathering...

Hi Folks..

Date: 12/9/00 (sat)
Time: 11am
Place: GTPro

for more details go to:
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=16089

Please do not Reply ALL to this email.. respond
privately to me only and go to the board to post
comments..

My mailing list is not complete, so help me forward
this info.. thanx!!

/George

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End of team3s V1 #336
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