team3s
Tuesday, November 28
2000 Volume 01 :
Number
335
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:47:04 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Heated mirrors HOW?
Sorry for the wrong info! I just had my
mirrors off the car a few weeks
back and it appeared to have electrical
connections for just the power
adjustments. I couldn't figure out how
they steamed up on some mornings, so
I figured the heated air from the dash
was responsible. It must be a very
small appliance in there--I never
saw it!
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Jett <
djett@corp.ultratech.com>
To:
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>;
djett@corp.ultratech.com<
djett@corp.ultratech.com>;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Monday, November 27, 2000 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Heated mirrors
HOW?
>Whoa!
>
>My bad! Sorry to the list, I was
thinking WINDOWS, not mirrors...
>
>Though I wonder if there is any
convection to the mirrors, come to think of
it...
>
>My
apologies,
>
>Dan J
>
>>>> Daniel Jett <
djett@corp.ultratech.com> -
11/26/00 4:11 PM >>>
>Uhhh...Afraid not Roger.
>
>It
is NOT 100% electrical. When you have the AC in the defrost position,
hot air
DOES enter the side mirrors from the upper AC vents.
>
>Dan
J
>94 Stealth TT
>
>>>> "Roger Gerl (RTEC)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch> - 11/26/00
3:29 PM >>>
>> Hot air. Open the door and look at the
side of the dash, you will see
the
>> air connection. I
believe it only works when the defrost button on you
>> climate control
is on.
>
>No no, this is wrong !!! It is 100% electrical and coupled
with the rear
>window defroster on all
cars.
>
>Roger
>93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch>
>
>
>***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
>
>*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
!
>
>
>
>*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:04:27
-0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Need help with 6 speed disassembly.
Those of you who have taken
the 6 speed apart.
How do you separate the gear clusters from the
end-housing piece? (the
housing part that is at the closest to the
passenger side)
Brad
Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:41:51
-0500
From: Ken Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Bad Leakdown/Compression Test
An important thing to remember when
doing a leakdown test is that you can identify
where the leak is coming from
(going to actually). Hook up the pressure to the
cylinder, and
observe:
radiator cap - bubbles indicate blown head gasket
oil fil cap -
piston rings
intake/throttle body - intake valve
exhaust pipe - exhaust
valve
That will help tremendously in the diagnostic/repair
process.
Good luck!
Ken
PS - OH yeah, be sure the motor is
warmed! Cold/Hot will give undesired results.
Michael Reid
wrote:
> I had my 94 Stealth TT engine compression and leakdown
tested
> recently and the news was apparently bad. Can anyone help
with
> some idea of what might be wrong and how expensive it might be
?
>
> Here are the numbers:
>
> Compression
(psi):
> (1) 120
> (2) 125
> (3) 105
> (4) 120
>
(5) 120
> (6) 125
>
> Except for the marginal (?) cylinder #3
(front right cyl from drivers'
> perspective ?) these seem to be
reasonably good. Are they ? Are they
> much higher with a new engine
?
>
> Leakdown (%) TDC / BDC:
> (1) 40 / 37
> (2) 12 /
12
> (3) 22 / 28
> (4) 17 / 16
> (5) 12 / 18
> (6) 20 /
23
>
> Cylinders #6 and #3 don't look so hot here, but #1 (front
left cyl from
> drivers' perspective ?) definitely appears to have
problems. Is Cyl #1
> the leanest and most likely to have detonation
issues ?
>
> Neither performance or gas mileage have been problems
for me. My G-Tech
> performance meter says I get a max of about 0.52 g's
of acceleration in
> 2nd gear, 0.26 g's in 3rd, 0.17 in 4th and 0.14 in
5th.
>
> The car and engine have almost 114,000 kilometers (71,000
miles) on them.
> I don't abuse the engine and generally use full throttle
only on highway
> entrance ramps. I've had the car 5 years and beleive the
original owner
> was pretty careful too. Most of the mileage is highway at
2000-2500 rpm;
> perhaps it's carboned up from too little high RPM
operation ?
>
> The car tends to get about 27 miles per imperial
gallon ( 21.6 miles per
> US gallon) or about 10.4 litres per 100
kilometres in summer, spring and fall.
> I've often used the cheaper
regular 87 octane gas and wonder if the ECU
> didn't hear detonation (bad
sensor?), but I've never heard pinging.
>
> The engine has had very
little maintenance done and has been quite reliable.
> The oil and filter
(Mobil 1 10w30 and Mitsu/Dodge OEM) has been changed about
> every 9
months which is about every 7,500 kilometers / 4,700 miles for me;
> I
drive only about 10,000 kilometers / 6,250 miles per year and the car
>
often sits for 1-2 weeks at a time.
>
> The car is stock except for
HKS exhaust and HKS SuperPowerFlow (?) air filter
> with the double
mushroom elements. (No HKS VPC as far as I know.) The filter
> wasn't
cleaned at all the last four years; I cleaned it today although I think
>
I'm supposed to replace the elements every 6,000 miles (?).
>
>
There is still a few grains of sand, wind-blown from the Florida beaches
from
> a trip 4 years back. I wonder if some sand got into the air
filter/intake or
> ended up mixing with the oil somewhere.
>
>
Anyway I tried a cheap possible fix by having a Bilstein fuel system
flush
> (like Motorvac) done which is supposed to be able to clean intake
valve
> and combustion chamber carbon deposits, among other things. No
difference
> in drivability or performance on the G-Tech perf.
meter.
>
> I'll probably get another shop to do a leakdown test on
the 3 easy front
> cylinders at least, to see if it's better or if the
first shop was mistaken.
>
> Any suggestions ? I'd love to keep the
car for 2-3 years or "forever" but
> don't want to make this car a
money-hole.
>
> Any ideas if this might be something cheap or do I
have bottom end or
> valve-train damage or both ? How expensive might this
get ?
>
> I wonder if there's a cheap way to get the transaxle or
transfer
> case output shaft checked while I'm at it ?
>
>
Thanks for any help,
> Mike Reid.
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
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Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:50:06
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Need help with 6 speed disassembly.
Brad
There is a hex bolt at
the end of the input shaft that holds the shaft in
position relative to the
case. The shaft is pressed into the end-housing
and held in place by the
bolt.
It can be removed by supporting the case and tapping on the end
of
the shaft --- I used a socket about the size of the opening and
tapped
on that to separate the pieces. The bolt and bolt cover must be
removed
first and while it is a press fit it's not all that tight. I removed
the bolt
cover and the bolt then pried the end cover off, if I had to do it
again I
would start from the bellhousing
end.
Jim
Berry
====================================================
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Brad Bedell <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
>
Those of you who have taken the 6 speed apart.
>
> How do you
separate the gear clusters from the end-housing piece? (the
>
housing part that is at the closest to the passenger
side)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:54:48
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Some interesting Intake plenum pics - N/A
I didn't figure anyone had
really taken their plenums apartthat had an N/A,
and i was a little surprised
when I saw what was actually inside my plenum,
so I decided to take some
pics.
I suppose the rear runners are for a longer intake tract path for
the lower
end??? And then the butterflies open up for the higher
end???
- -Cody
http://209.75.94.18/ov3rclck/car/engine1.JPGhttp://209.75.94.18/ov3rclck/car/together.JPGhttp://209.75.94.18/ov3rclck/car/apart1.JPGhttp://209.75.94.18/ov3rclck/car/apart2.JPGhttp://209.75.94.18/ov3rclck/car/throttlebody.JPG(it
has already been painted since those pics were taken)
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:04:24
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Some interesting Intake plenum pics - N/A
Actually, the
longer one is there..and restricted to JUST it at low RPMs
to keep intake
velocity high.
The AllTrac celica Ive got has the same thing..opens when
you hit some low
PSI.
Im able to shift my power curve to the left if I
disable mine so its
always open, BUT it costs me some lower end.
On
Mon, 27 Nov 2000, cody wrote:
> I didn't figure anyone had really
taken their plenums apartthat had an N/A,
> and i was a little surprised
when I saw what was actually inside my plenum,
> so I decided to take some
pics.
>
> I suppose the rear runners are for a longer intake tract
path for the lower
> end??? And then the butterflies open up for the
higher end???
>
> -Cody
>
>
http://209.75.94.18/ov3rclck/car/engine1.JPG>
http://209.75.94.18/ov3rclck/car/together.JPG>
http://209.75.94.18/ov3rclck/car/apart1.JPG>
http://209.75.94.18/ov3rclck/car/apart2.JPG>
http://209.75.94.18/ov3rclck/car/throttlebody.JPG>
> (it has already been painted since those pics were taken)
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:37:33
-0500
From: Michael Reid <
mreidis@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Bad
Leakdown/Compression Test
Thanks all for the responses, Mikael, Ken,
Roger.
>From: "Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
>Was the engine cold
or warm when you did the tests??
>I had very strange testresults when I
tested compression and leakdown when
>the engine was cold, after warmup
the results was perfect.
I'll try to find out. The shop is "Robson
Racing" here in Ottawa, Canada
and comes highly recommended by many but who
knows if they need engine
rebuilding business this winter... :( They
seem to know what they're
doing though.
I WILL get the second shop to
do compression and leakdown tests on the
front 3 cylinders at least to
compare this Thursday. It's run by a friends'
brother-in-law and they seem
competent and willing to let me watch or work
with the mechanic, but I don't
think they have any Stealth experience.
>From: Ken Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
>An important
thing to remember when doing a leakdown test is that you
can
identify
>where the leak is coming from (going to actually).
Hook up the pressure
to the
>cylinder, and observe:
>radiator cap
- bubbles indicate blown head gasket
>oil fil cap - piston
rings
>intake/throttle body - intake valve
>exhaust pipe - exhaust
valve
>PS - OH yeah, be sure the motor is warmed! Cold/Hot will give
undesired
results.
Yes, the first shop put in 4 hours of labor and
they didn't mention anything
about testing compression with a bit of squirted
oil, nor did they seem to
use a stethoscope or whatever to try and identify
the leak destination.
I'll make sure to do this or get this done at the
second shop and with
a warm engine. I guess a bore-scoping of the cyls would
be good also.
>From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
>As
Mikael asked, it highly depends on the temp of the engine. When cold the
>results are ok although (3) is too deep for sure. 115 is the minimum
they
>should show (in cold). When hot (warm) the results shoudl be
bweteen 135
>and 150psi.
OK, maybe it was cold. Do you need to run
the engine for 1/2 an hour or
more to do these tests ? Idle or driving
?
>>The car tends to get about 27 miles per imperial gallon ( 21.6
miles per
>>US gallon) or about 10.4 litres per 100 kilometres in
summer, spring and
fall.
>
>The mileage you are runnign is
extremely good for a close to stock car. And
>as you seem to baby your
car I'd not expect a bad thing but way too much
>carbon buildup around
the valve seats.
That's what I thought about gas mileage, and it
hasn't changed from 21-22
US MPG
since I bought the car almost 5 years
ago. The performance doesn't seem to
have
dropped the last 5 years, but I
may not have noticed a gradual drop. I have no
idea if 0.52 g's of forward
acceleration in 2nd gear is normal but I can't
imagine
these cars do TOO
much better new. Anyone know ? I don't want to do any 0-60's
or 0-1/4 miles
for testing performance.
>No, I doubt the detonation sensor is bad as
this will cause the check
engine light to come up.
>And no, if
you can hear pinging the engine it is already too late. The
engine
reduces
>timign from knock long before you can hear it !
OK. I
just figured low level detonation might have cracked some piston
rings.
>>The oil and filter (Mobil 1 10w30 and Mitsu/Dodge OEM)
has been changed
about
>>every 9 months which is about every 7,500
kilometers / 4,700 miles for me;
>This is good !
Woops ! I
just re-reviewed my service record and see I let two oil and
filter
changes
go way too long. One interval was 20 months and 7,500 miles
followed by an
interval
of 22 months and 10,000 miles. If the oil cooler
kept 0.5 liter of old oil
I may have
had 1/2 liter in there for 42 months
and 17,500 miles. I think a good
argument could
be made that the almost 2
year intervals were too high, although the miles
aren't
too bad. Perhaps
this might have caused or contributed to any damage that
might
exist.
>>There is still a few grains of sand, wind-blown from
the Florida beaches
from
>>a trip 4 years back. I wonder if some
sand got into the air filter/intake or
>>ended up mixing with the oil
somewhere.
>
>No, not the oil but into the air intake. The HKS
filters are the worst in
>filtering (from japanese test a year ago) but
mostly the sand will stick in
>the light oil cover o nthe inside of the
intercoolers and piping. If you
>drive a lot in sandy or salty regions
(coasts) I'd not recommend the HKS
>filters at all.
Yes I
think this might explain things if it turns out the valves,
pistons,
cylinders or rings are generally worn. I've been concerned about
the
outside edges of the filter riding out and possibly allowing
unfiltered
air in. I've been considering changing to a K&N FIPK but
wonder about how
well these filter and seal. I rarely drive in dusty climates
but that beach
sand took and takes forever to disappear, Perhaps an engine
cleaning may
be worth it even now.
>>Anyway I tried a
cheap possible fix by having a Bilstein fuel system flush
>>(like
Motorvac) done which is supposed to be able to clean intake valve
>>and
combustion chamber carbon deposits, among other things.
>
>You
should do a good fuel system flush that goes directly into the fuel
>rails.There is a Mopar stuff that you put into the engine and let it
soak
>for a night. When you then run the car again, holy smoke will come
out and
>often the seats of the valves are cleared up and the compression
rises.
This Bilstein fuel system fluch is exactly the sort of flush you
describe.
I think it's just like the Sun/Motorvac units but it seems to be
new.
>>Any ideas if this might be something cheap or do I
have bottom end or
>>valve-train damage or both ? How expensive might
this get ?
>
>I'd not think about this unless boost is increased on
your car !
AFAIK, no boost increase over 94+ stock. We'll see how the
other
shop does with their tests.
>>I wonder if there's
a cheap way to get the transaxle or transfer
>>case output shaft
checked while I'm at it ?
>
>Cheap ? There is nothign cheap when a
mechanic has to do the job. The job
>is totally different then doing
anything on the engine.
Well I guess it might be a bit less expenive
to visually inspect the tranny
and transfer case if the engine gets pulled
for a full overhaul... :) :(
Thanks all again,
Mike 94
TT.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:45:18
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Bad Leakdown/Compression Test
Good news is that any competent
wrench wont care what kinda car it is,
they all go together the same
way.
The right way.
On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Michael Reid
wrote:
> Thanks all for the responses, Mikael, Ken, Roger.
>
> >From: "Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
> >Was the engine
cold or warm when you did the tests??
> >I had very strange testresults
when I tested compression and leakdown when
> >the engine was cold,
after warmup the results was perfect.
>
> I'll try to find out. The
shop is "Robson Racing" here in Ottawa, Canada
> and comes highly
recommended by many but who knows if they need engine
> rebuilding
business this winter... :( They seem to know what they're
> doing
though.
>
> I WILL get the second shop to do compression and
leakdown tests on the
> front 3 cylinders at least to compare this
Thursday. It's run by a friends'
> brother-in-law and they seem competent
and willing to let me watch or work
> with the mechanic, but I don't think
they have any Stealth experience.
>
>
> >From: Ken
Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
> >An
important thing to remember when doing a leakdown test is that you can
>
identify
> >where the leak is coming from (going to actually).
Hook up the pressure
> to the
> >cylinder, and observe:
>
>radiator cap - bubbles indicate blown head gasket
> >oil fil cap -
piston rings
> >intake/throttle body - intake valve
> >exhaust
pipe - exhaust valve
> >PS - OH yeah, be sure the motor is
warmed! Cold/Hot will give undesired
> results.
>
>
Yes, the first shop put in 4 hours of labor and they didn't mention
anything
> about testing compression with a bit of squirted oil, nor did
they seem to
> use a stethoscope or whatever to try and identify the leak
destination.
> I'll make sure to do this or get this done at the second
shop and with
> a warm engine. I guess a bore-scoping of the cyls would be
good also.
>
>
>
>
> >From: Roger Gerl
<
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
>
>As Mikael asked, it highly depends on the temp of the engine. When cold the
> >results are ok although (3) is too deep for sure. 115 is the
minimum they
> >should show (in cold). When hot (warm) the results
shoudl be bweteen 135
> >and 150psi.
>
> OK, maybe it was
cold. Do you need to run the engine for 1/2 an hour or
> more to do these
tests ? Idle or driving ?
>
> >>The car tends to get about 27
miles per imperial gallon ( 21.6 miles per
> >>US gallon) or about
10.4 litres per 100 kilometres in summer, spring and
> fall.
>
>
> >The mileage you are runnign is extremely good for a close to
stock car. And
> >as you seem to baby your car I'd not expect a bad
thing but way too much
> >carbon buildup around the valve
seats.
>
>
> That's what I thought about gas mileage, and it
hasn't changed from 21-22
> US MPG
> since I bought the car almost 5
years ago. The performance doesn't seem to
> have
> dropped the last
5 years, but I may not have noticed a gradual drop. I have no
> idea if
0.52 g's of forward acceleration in 2nd gear is normal but I can't
>
imagine
> these cars do TOO much better new. Anyone know ? I don't want to
do any 0-60's
> or 0-1/4 miles for testing performance.
>
>
>No, I doubt the detonation sensor is bad as this will cause the
check
> engine light to come up.
> >And no, if you can hear
pinging the engine it is already too late. The
> engine reduces
>
>timign from knock long before you can hear it !
>
> OK. I just
figured low level detonation might have cracked some piston rings.
>
>
> >>The oil and filter (Mobil 1 10w30 and Mitsu/Dodge OEM)
has been changed
> about
> >>every 9 months which is about
every 7,500 kilometers / 4,700 miles for me;
>
> >This is good
!
>
>
> Woops ! I just re-reviewed my service record and see
I let two oil and
> filter changes
> go way too long. One interval
was 20 months and 7,500 miles followed by an
> interval
> of
22 months and 10,000 miles. If the oil cooler kept 0.5 liter of old oil
>
I may have
> had 1/2 liter in there for 42 months and 17,500 miles. I
think a good
> argument could
> be made that the almost 2 year
intervals were too high, although the miles
> aren't
> too bad.
Perhaps this might have caused or contributed to any damage that
> might
exist.
>
>
> >>There is still a few grains of sand,
wind-blown from the Florida beaches
> from
> >>a trip 4 years
back. I wonder if some sand got into the air filter/intake or
>
>>ended up mixing with the oil somewhere.
> >
> >No, not
the oil but into the air intake. The HKS filters are the worst in
>
>filtering (from japanese test a year ago) but mostly the sand will stick in
> >the light oil cover o nthe inside of the intercoolers and piping.
If you
> >drive a lot in sandy or salty regions (coasts) I'd not
recommend the HKS
> >filters at all.
>
>
> Yes I
think this might explain things if it turns out the valves, pistons,
>
cylinders or rings are generally worn. I've been concerned about the
>
outside edges of the filter riding out and possibly allowing unfiltered
>
air in. I've been considering changing to a K&N FIPK but wonder about
how
> well these filter and seal. I rarely drive in dusty climates but
that beach
> sand took and takes forever to disappear, Perhaps an engine
cleaning may
> be worth it even now.
>
>
>
>
>>Anyway I tried a cheap possible fix by having a Bilstein fuel system
flush
> >>(like Motorvac) done which is supposed to be able to clean
intake valve
> >>and combustion chamber carbon deposits, among other
things.
> >
> >You should do a good fuel system flush that
goes directly into the fuel
> >rails.There is a Mopar stuff that you
put into the engine and let it soak
> >for a night. When you then run
the car again, holy smoke will come out and
> >often the seats of the
valves are cleared up and the compression rises.
>
> This Bilstein
fuel system fluch is exactly the sort of flush you describe.
> I think
it's just like the Sun/Motorvac units but it seems to be new.
>
>
>
> >>Any ideas if this might be something cheap or do I
have bottom end or
> >>valve-train damage or both ? How expensive
might this get ?
> >
> >I'd not think about this unless boost
is increased on your car !
>
> AFAIK, no boost increase over 94+
stock. We'll see how the other
> shop does with their tests.
>
>
>
> >>I wonder if there's a cheap way to get the
transaxle or transfer
> >>case output shaft checked while I'm at it
?
> >
> >Cheap ? There is nothign cheap when a mechanic has to
do the job. The job
> >is totally different then doing anything on the
engine.
>
>
> Well I guess it might be a bit less expenive
to visually inspect the tranny
> and transfer case if the engine gets
pulled for a full overhaul... :) :(
>
>
> Thanks all
again,
> Mike 94 TT.
>
>
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:04:16
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Bad Leakdown/Compression Test
Exactly - there is no gigantic
difference between our cars and any other
over head cam engine... they
all work the same way - we just seem to have
slightly better parts with some
smaller tolerances sometimes...
- -Cody
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Geoff Mohler
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 1:45 AM
To:
Michael Reid
Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Bad Leakdown/Compression Test
Good news is that any
competent wrench wont care what kinda car it is,
they all go together the
same way.
The right way.
On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Michael Reid
wrote:
> Thanks all for the responses, Mikael, Ken,
Roger.
>
> >From: "Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
> >Was the engine
cold or warm when you did the tests??
> >I had very strange testresults
when I tested compression and leakdown
when
> >the engine was cold,
after warmup the results was perfect.
>
> I'll try to find out. The
shop is "Robson Racing" here in Ottawa, Canada
> and comes highly
recommended by many but who knows if they need engine
> rebuilding
business this winter... :( They seem to know what they're
> doing
though.
>
> I WILL get the second shop to do compression and
leakdown tests on the
> front 3 cylinders at least to compare this
Thursday. It's run by a
friends'
> brother-in-law and they seem
competent and willing to let me watch or work
> with the mechanic, but I
don't think they have any Stealth experience.
>
>
> >From:
Ken Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
> >An
important thing to remember when doing a leakdown test is that you can
>
identify
> >where the leak is coming from (going to actually).
Hook up the pressure
> to the
> >cylinder, and observe:
>
>radiator cap - bubbles indicate blown head gasket
> >oil fil cap -
piston rings
> >intake/throttle body - intake valve
> >exhaust
pipe - exhaust valve
> >PS - OH yeah, be sure the motor is
warmed! Cold/Hot will give undesired
> results.
>
> Yes,
the first shop put in 4 hours of labor and they didn't
mention
anything
> about testing compression with a bit of squirted
oil, nor did they seem to
> use a stethoscope or whatever to try and
identify the leak destination.
> I'll make sure to do this or get this
done at the second shop and with
> a warm engine. I guess a bore-scoping
of the cyls would be good also.
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
> >As
Mikael asked, it highly depends on the temp of the engine. When
cold
the
> >results are ok although (3) is too deep for sure. 115 is
the minimum they
> >should show (in cold). When hot (warm) the results
shoudl be bweteen 135
> >and 150psi.
>
> OK, maybe it was
cold. Do you need to run the engine for 1/2 an hour or
> more to do these
tests ? Idle or driving ?
>
> >>The car tends to get about 27
miles per imperial gallon ( 21.6 miles per
> >>US gallon) or about
10.4 litres per 100 kilometres in summer, spring and
> fall.
>
>
> >The mileage you are runnign is extremely good for a close to
stock car.
And
> >as you seem to baby your car I'd not expect a bad
thing but way too much
> >carbon buildup around the valve
seats.
>
>
> That's what I thought about gas mileage, and it
hasn't changed from 21-22
> US MPG
> since I bought the car almost 5
years ago. The performance doesn't seem to
> have
> dropped the last
5 years, but I may not have noticed a gradual drop. I
have no
> idea if
0.52 g's of forward acceleration in 2nd gear is normal but I can't
>
imagine
> these cars do TOO much better new. Anyone know ? I don't want to
do any
0-60's
> or 0-1/4 miles for testing performance.
>
>
>No, I doubt the detonation sensor is bad as this will cause the
check
> engine light to come up.
> >And no, if you can hear
pinging the engine it is already too late. The
> engine reduces
>
>timign from knock long before you can hear it !
>
> OK. I just
figured low level detonation might have cracked some
piston
rings.
>
>
> >>The oil and filter (Mobil 1
10w30 and Mitsu/Dodge OEM) has been changed
> about
> >>every
9 months which is about every 7,500 kilometers / 4,700 miles
for
me;
>
> >This is good !
>
>
> Woops ! I
just re-reviewed my service record and see I let two oil and
> filter
changes
> go way too long. One interval was 20 months and 7,500
miles followed by
an
> interval
> of 22 months and 10,000 miles.
If the oil cooler kept 0.5 liter of old oil
> I may have
> had 1/2
liter in there for 42 months and 17,500 miles. I think a good
> argument
could
> be made that the almost 2 year intervals were too high, although
the miles
> aren't
> too bad. Perhaps this might have caused or
contributed to any damage that
> might exist.
>
>
>
>>There is still a few grains of sand, wind-blown from the Florida
beaches
> from
> >>a trip 4 years back. I wonder if some sand
got into the air
filter/intake or
> >>ended up mixing with the
oil somewhere.
> >
> >No, not the oil but into the air intake.
The HKS filters are the worst in
> >filtering (from japanese test a
year ago) but mostly the sand will stick
in
> >the light oil cover o
nthe inside of the intercoolers and piping. If you
> >drive a lot in
sandy or salty regions (coasts) I'd not recommend the HKS
> >filters at
all.
>
>
> Yes I think this might explain things if it turns
out the valves, pistons,
> cylinders or rings are generally worn. I've
been concerned about the
> outside edges of the filter riding out and
possibly allowing unfiltered
> air in. I've been considering changing to a
K&N FIPK but wonder about how
> well these filter and seal. I rarely
drive in dusty climates but that
beach
> sand took and takes forever to
disappear, Perhaps an engine cleaning may
> be worth it even
now.
>
>
>
> >>Anyway I tried a cheap possible fix
by having a Bilstein fuel system
flush
> >>(like Motorvac) done
which is supposed to be able to clean intake valve
> >>and
combustion chamber carbon deposits, among other things.
> >
>
>You should do a good fuel system flush that goes directly into the
fuel
> >rails.There is a Mopar stuff that you put into the engine and
let it soak
> >for a night. When you then run the car again, holy smoke
will come out
and
> >often the seats of the valves are cleared up
and the compression rises.
>
> This Bilstein fuel system fluch is
exactly the sort of flush you describe.
> I think it's just like the
Sun/Motorvac units but it seems to be new.
>
>
>
>
>>Any ideas if this might be something cheap or do I have bottom end
or
> >>valve-train damage or both ? How expensive might this get
?
> >
> >I'd not think about this unless boost is increased on
your car !
>
> AFAIK, no boost increase over 94+ stock. We'll see
how the other
> shop does with their
tests.
>
>
>
> >>I wonder if there's a cheap way
to get the transaxle or transfer
> >>case output shaft checked while
I'm at it ?
> >
> >Cheap ? There is nothign cheap when a
mechanic has to do the job. The job
> >is totally different then doing
anything on the engine.
>
>
> Well I guess it might be a bit
less expenive to visually inspect the
tranny
> and transfer case if the
engine gets pulled for a full overhaul... :) :(
>
>
> Thanks
all again,
> Mike 94 TT.
>
>
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:03:58
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Some interesting Intake plenum pics - N/A
>Actually, the
longer one is there..and restricted to JUST it at low RPMs
>to keep intake
velocity high.
My Audi A8 has a three stage setup that is used to provide
an optimal air
stream. It helps a lot to provide torque in the lower end.
All formula 1
cars do have this kind of intake restriction to increase
downstream
velocity controlled for each cylinder itselfs. Unfortunately it
is not
known what benefit this system could be of under
boost.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:11:46
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Bad Leakdown/Compression Test
Which is where good mechanics
shine, they dont have a problem with tight
tolerances.
A half-assed
mechanic actually _belives_ everything works like a
chevy..and bearings just
come in kits..not in specific sizes.
On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, cody
wrote:
> Exactly - there is no gigantic difference between our cars
and any other
> over head cam engine... they all work the same way -
we just seem to have
> slightly better parts with some smaller tolerances
sometimes...
>
> -Cody
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Geoff Mohler
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 1:45 AM
>
To: Michael Reid
> Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Bad Leakdown/Compression Test
>
>
>
Good news is that any competent wrench wont care what kinda car it is,
>
they all go together the same way.
>
> The right way.
>
> On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Michael Reid wrote:
>
> > Thanks
all for the responses, Mikael, Ken, Roger.
> >
> > >From:
"Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
> > >Was the
engine cold or warm when you did the tests??
> > >I had very strange
testresults when I tested compression and leakdown
> when
> >
>the engine was cold, after warmup the results was perfect.
>
>
> > I'll try to find out. The shop is "Robson Racing" here in
Ottawa, Canada
> > and comes highly recommended by many but who knows
if they need engine
> > rebuilding business this winter... :(
They seem to know what they're
> > doing though.
> >
>
> I WILL get the second shop to do compression and leakdown tests on
the
> > front 3 cylinders at least to compare this Thursday. It's run
by a
> friends'
> > brother-in-law and they seem competent and
willing to let me watch or work
> > with the mechanic, but I don't
think they have any Stealth experience.
> >
> >
> >
>From: Ken Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
> > >An
important thing to remember when doing a leakdown test is that you can
>
> identify
> > >where the leak is coming from (going to
actually). Hook up the pressure
> > to the
> >
>cylinder, and observe:
> > >radiator cap - bubbles indicate
blown head gasket
> > >oil fil cap - piston rings
> >
>intake/throttle body - intake valve
> > >exhaust pipe - exhaust
valve
> > >PS - OH yeah, be sure the motor is warmed! Cold/Hot
will give undesired
> > results.
> >
> > Yes, the
first shop put in 4 hours of labor and they didn't mention
>
anything
> > about testing compression with a bit of squirted oil, nor
did they seem to
> > use a stethoscope or whatever to try and identify
the leak destination.
> > I'll make sure to do this or get this done at
the second shop and with
> > a warm engine. I guess a bore-scoping of
the cyls would be good also.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> > >From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
> >
>As Mikael asked, it highly depends on the temp of the engine. When
cold
> the
> > >results are ok although (3) is too deep for
sure. 115 is the minimum they
> > >should show (in cold). When hot
(warm) the results shoudl be bweteen 135
> > >and 150psi.
>
>
> > OK, maybe it was cold. Do you need to run the engine for 1/2
an hour or
> > more to do these tests ? Idle or driving ?
>
>
> > >>The car tends to get about 27 miles per imperial
gallon ( 21.6 miles per
> > >>US gallon) or about 10.4 litres per
100 kilometres in summer, spring and
> > fall.
> >
>
> > >The mileage you are runnign is extremely good for a close
to stock car.
> And
> > >as you seem to baby your car I'd not
expect a bad thing but way too much
> > >carbon buildup around the
valve seats.
> >
> >
> > That's what I thought about
gas mileage, and it hasn't changed from 21-22
> > US MPG
> >
since I bought the car almost 5 years ago. The performance doesn't seem
to
> > have
> > dropped the last 5 years, but I may not have
noticed a gradual drop. I
> have no
> > idea if 0.52 g's of
forward acceleration in 2nd gear is normal but I can't
> >
imagine
> > these cars do TOO much better new. Anyone know ? I don't
want to do any
> 0-60's
> > or 0-1/4 miles for testing
performance.
> >
> > >No, I doubt the detonation sensor is
bad as this will cause the check
> > engine light to come up.
>
> >And no, if you can hear pinging the engine it is already too
late. The
> > engine reduces
> > >timign from knock long
before you can hear it !
> >
> > OK. I just figured low level
detonation might have cracked some piston
> rings.
> >
>
>
> > >>The oil and filter (Mobil 1 10w30 and Mitsu/Dodge OEM)
has been changed
> > about
> > >>every 9 months which is
about every 7,500 kilometers / 4,700 miles for
> me;
> >
>
> >This is good !
> >
> >
> > Woops ! I just
re-reviewed my service record and see I let two oil and
> > filter
changes
> > go way too long. One interval was 20 months and 7,500
miles followed by
> an
> > interval
> > of 22 months and
10,000 miles. If the oil cooler kept 0.5 liter of old oil
> > I may
have
> > had 1/2 liter in there for 42 months and 17,500 miles. I think
a good
> > argument could
> > be made that the almost 2 year
intervals were too high, although the miles
> > aren't
> > too
bad. Perhaps this might have caused or contributed to any damage that
>
> might exist.
> >
> >
> > >>There is still
a few grains of sand, wind-blown from the Florida beaches
> >
from
> > >>a trip 4 years back. I wonder if some sand got into
the air
> filter/intake or
> > >>ended up mixing with the
oil somewhere.
> > >
> > >No, not the oil but into the
air intake. The HKS filters are the worst in
> > >filtering (from
japanese test a year ago) but mostly the sand will stick
> in
> >
>the light oil cover o nthe inside of the intercoolers and piping. If
you
> > >drive a lot in sandy or salty regions (coasts) I'd not
recommend the HKS
> > >filters at all.
> >
>
>
> > Yes I think this might explain things if it turns out the
valves, pistons,
> > cylinders or rings are generally worn. I've been
concerned about the
> > outside edges of the filter riding out and
possibly allowing unfiltered
> > air in. I've been considering changing
to a K&N FIPK but wonder about how
> > well these filter and seal.
I rarely drive in dusty climates but that
> beach
> > sand took
and takes forever to disappear, Perhaps an engine cleaning may
> > be
worth it even now.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>>Anyway I tried a cheap possible fix by having a Bilstein fuel
system
> flush
> > >>(like Motorvac) done which is supposed
to be able to clean intake valve
> > >>and combustion chamber
carbon deposits, among other things.
> > >
> > >You
should do a good fuel system flush that goes directly into the fuel
> >
>rails.There is a Mopar stuff that you put into the engine and let it
soak
> > >for a night. When you then run the car again, holy smoke
will come out
> and
> > >often the seats of the valves are
cleared up and the compression rises.
> >
> > This Bilstein
fuel system fluch is exactly the sort of flush you describe.
> > I
think it's just like the Sun/Motorvac units but it seems to be new.
>
>
> >
> >
> > >>Any ideas if this might be
something cheap or do I have bottom end or
> > >>valve-train
damage or both ? How expensive might this get ?
> > >
> >
>I'd not think about this unless boost is increased on your car !
>
>
> > AFAIK, no boost increase over 94+ stock. We'll see how the
other
> > shop does with their tests.
> >
> >
>
>
> > >>I wonder if there's a cheap way to get the transaxle
or transfer
> > >>case output shaft checked while I'm at it
?
> > >
> > >Cheap ? There is nothign cheap when a
mechanic has to do the job. The job
> > >is totally different then
doing anything on the engine.
> >
> >
> > Well I
guess it might be a bit less expenive to visually inspect the
>
tranny
> > and transfer case if the engine gets pulled for a full
overhaul... :) :(
> >
> >
> > Thanks all
again,
> > Mike 94 TT.
> >
> >
> >
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> >
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:14:04
-0800
From: "Chris Maxwell" <
shmacker@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Negative O2 Sensor voltage...
I finally got around to checking the O2
sensor voltages today with my handy
Fry's super-special el-cheapo multimeter
and found something interesting.
My front O2 sensor seemed to display
voltages that looked about right. All
the readings were between
0-1V. They were all over the place, but seemed to
get higher when I
floored it and were higher right when I let off the gas.
However, when I
monitered the rear O2 sensor, the voltages were more
sporatic (sp?) and there
were quite a few NEGATIVE readings. The values
ranged from -1 to +1
volts. This doesn't seem like typical behavior right?
Would this
indicate a bad O2 sensor? Perhaps this is why I can only go
about 220
miles on a tank when I used to get well over 300?
Thanks,
Chris
92
R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:32:03
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Negative O2 Sensor voltage...
> the readings were between
0-1V. They were all over the place, but seemed
to
> get higher
when I floored it and were higher right when I let off the
gas.
Correct
> However, when I monitered the rear O2 sensor,
the voltages were more
> sporatic (sp?) and there were quite a few
NEGATIVE readings. The values
> ranged from -1 to +1 volts.
This doesn't seem like typical behavior
right?
Right !
>
Would this indicate a bad O2 sensor? Perhaps this is why I can only
go
> about 220 miles on a tank when I used to get well over
300?
Hmm, normaly a shot O2 sensor shows way too low readings but
negative ? I
have never heard of this. If possible connect the front O2
sensor to the
same input as the rear goes on the ECU as it could be that the
imput port of
the ECU is defective. I'd do this before buying a new O2 sensor
and going
through hell to replace it.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch>
>
Thanks,
> Chris
> 92 R/T TT
>
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:52:29
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: VR4 project update
Update (annotated):
- -Dropped redhead
clutch, purchased a tilton road-race only clutch (much
MUCH lighter, and
stronger dual plate action)
- -Using 900cc injectors initially (84lb per
hour each at 45psi, thats 62
gallons/hr of fuel consumption at a safe 85%
injector rate, should deliver
800Hp)
- -Decided to use twin 15G turbos
initally, will do ECU tuning (DFI unit)
and chassis/suspension tuning until
perhaps early summer, then upgrade
manifolds/turbos/wastegates at that
time.
- -Chassis work begins next monday.
- -Motor should be fully
assembled by the end of next week, will sustain
8500rpm, and will rev limit
at 9k..max sustained of 5 seconds, then limit
down to 8500.
- -What
isnt gone from the teardown, goes to the dumpster by
Xmas.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#335
*********************
