team3s
Sunday, November 12
2000 Volume 01
: Number
321
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:22:51 -0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Which year VR4?
At 03:09 PM 11/10/00 -0500,
ukyo@avana.net wrote:
>Now that I have
decided that I must have a VR4 at all
>costs, I am paused to define what
year would be the
>best bet. <snip> I have been
>told that '94 would be the best bet, but I am unsure.
94
is the best. It has everything. Be ABSOLUTELY sure you get a warranty
with
it, because the transmission will fail at 60K miles. Don't buy one
without a
warranty. No warranty, drop $4000 off the price.
Rich/old poop/94
CR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:36:15
-0600
From: "Thoms, Shane - SGIG" <
sthoms@cardinalcorp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Which year VR4?
I would say '95. The reason I got mine
was for:
6spd Trans. Guaranteed
18" Wheels Guaranteed
Active Aero
Active Suspension
(I like toys)
320hp
>Now that I have
decided that I must have a VR4 at all
>costs, I am paused to define what
year would be the
>best bet. <snip> I have been
>told that '94 would be the best bet, but I am unsure.
94
is the best. It has everything. Be ABSOLUTELY sure you get a warranty
with
it, because the transmission will fail at 60K miles. Don't buy one
without a
warranty. No warranty, drop $4000 off the price.
Rich/old poop/94
CR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:53:06
CST
From: "Curt Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Which year VR4?
This is a very subjective topic, but I would
say an early 95 model is the
most desirable of the VR4s. Here is what
you have:
- - 6 speed Getrag tranny
- - 18" chrome rims
- - ECS
suspension
- - lexon headlights instead of glass or pop-ups
- - big manual
sunroof instead of smaller power sunroof
- - active aero
The eary 95
model VR4 is the only one that has all of these. Of course
these are
only my preferences......
The only thing negative about the 94+ cars is
there is no TMO datalogging
available. :(
later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org>From:
ukyo@avana.net>Reply-To:
ukyo@avana.net>To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
Team3S: Which year VR4?
>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:09:00
-0500
>
>Now that I have decided that I must have a VR4 at
all
>costs, I am paused to define what year would be the
>best
bet. I have read that certain features have been
>removed from the
newer VR4s (ECS for one) and I would
>like to get the most VR4 for my
money. What year is
>considered the perfect year model to
have? I have a
>line on a '96, but it is my understanding that it
wil
>not have ECS. Is ECS that big of a deal? can you
feel
>a big difference in the suspension modes? I have
been
>told that '94 would be the best bet, but I am unsure.
>If you
guys can find the time to let me know your
>opinions I would greatly
appreciate it. Thanks
in
>advance.
>
>--Travis
>'97 3000GT (Base + K&N
FIPK sans Resonator Bottle / Red)
>
>
>*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
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***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:01:31
-0500
From: Rick D <
Rick@ceo-consulting.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Which year VR-4?
>Travis wrote:
>
>Now that I
have decided that I must have a VR4 at all
>costs, I am paused to define
what year would be the
>best bet. I have read that certain features
have been
>removed from the newer VR4s (ECS for one) and I
would
>like to get the most VR4 for my money. What year
is
>considered the perfect year model to have? I have a
>line
on a '96, but it is my understanding that it wil
>not have ECS. Is
ECS that big of a deal? can you feel
>a big difference in the
suspension modes? I have been
>told that '94 would be the best bet,
but I am unsure.
>If you guys can find the time to let me know
your
>opinions I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
in
>advance.
>
>- --Travis
>'97 3000GT (Base + K&N
FIPK sans Resonator Bottle /
Red)
=================================================
Travis,
I
owned a 94 R/T twin turbo up until about a month ago. It was Pearl
Yellow with Black leather inside. It had the 17" chrome wheels that
said
"Dodge" in the center caps, ECS, AWD, AWS, Climate Control A/C
(digital),
sunroof (which was removable), 6 speed trans, 320hp engine,
well....you
get the idea. I absolutely LOVED the car. Best damn
car I have ever
owned. IMHO the 94 was the best year for the Stealth
because in 1995 they
(chrysler) went to knobs for the A/C controls. I
am not a big fan of knobs
for the A/C (this made me feel as if I were in an
Eclipse) when the digital
A/C controls came on the 94, so I bought the 94
car. As for the Vr-4 cars
I think (not sure though) that you could get
the digital A/C all the way up
till 99.
Another thing to consider (if
you plan to do performance upgrades as I
chose to) is which year is the
easiest to upgrade with the least amount of
hassle. I chose the
94 because it DID have the 6 speed trans, but did
NOT have the
downstream o2 sensors. This way I did not get a check engine
light
when I decided to gut the pre-cats and install the HKS
exhaust.
<However, note that I have heard some guys are now using o2
"trickers" on
the newer models that had the 4 o2's so this may be a moot point>
As
for which year is best? Well, if I had it to do all over again I think
I would still go with the 94 R/T turbo (or 95 and up VR-4 with the 18"
wheels and climate control A/C, 6 speed trans, etc..)
On a side
note: If by any chance you locate a VR-4 for cheap (that
needs.....
say..... a pair of turbos?) I have an extra set here that are
new in the
box. :) I would let them go for a reasonable
offer.
Rick Diogo
2000 Viper GTS - 4 weeks old
Palm Beach County,
Florida
I "know" who I voted for ;)
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:02:30
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Which year VR4?
I would have to concur. If you want a 2nd
gen, early 95 w/o full OBDII and
manual sunroof for two reasons. Yeah
no dataloggers for 94-95, but the 96
up dataloggers are real expensive and
are limited in functions anyway. You
can gut your cats and bolt up a
d.p. w/o worrying about what to do with the
4-o2 sensors and you can get
lowering springs w/ manual sunroof. The 95s
have all the upgraded
tranny and engine parts (stronger) and you get the 18"
wheels to boot.
Other then that, the 94 is better, cause you could probably
get it a bit
cheaper and eventually will want to get aftermarket wheels
anyway cause
chrome is heavy and doesn't hold up in snowy winters very well
(that goes for
94/95).
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Curt Gendron <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Friday, November 10, 2000 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Which year
VR4?
>This is a very subjective topic, but I would say an early 95
model is the
>most desirable of the VR4s. Here is what you
have:
>
>- 6 speed Getrag tranny
>- 18" chrome rims
>-
ECS suspension
>- lexon headlights instead of glass or pop-ups
>-
big manual sunroof instead of smaller power sunroof
>- active
aero
>
>The eary 95 model VR4 is the only one that has all of
these. Of course
>these are only my
preferences......
>
>The only thing negative about the 94+ cars is
there is no TMO datalogging
>available.
:(
>
>later,
>Curt
>
http://www.mn3s.org>
>
>>From:
ukyo@avana.net>>Reply-To:
ukyo@avana.net>>To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>>Subject:
Team3S: Which year VR4?
>>Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:09:00
-0500
>>
>>Now that I have decided that I must have a VR4 at
all
>>costs, I am paused to define what year would be
the
>>best bet. I have read that certain features have
been
>>removed from the newer VR4s (ECS for one) and I
would
>>like to get the most VR4 for my money. What year
is
>>considered the perfect year model to have? I have
a
>>line on a '96, but it is my understanding that it
wil
>>not have ECS. Is ECS that big of a deal? can you
feel
>>a big difference in the suspension modes? I have
been
>>told that '94 would be the best bet, but I am
unsure.
>>If you guys can find the time to let me know
your
>>opinions I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
in
>>advance.
>>
>>--Travis
>>'97 3000GT
(Base + K&N FIPK sans Resonator Bottle /
Red)
>>
>>
>>*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
>_________________________________________________________________________
>Get
Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>Share
information about yourself, create your own public profile at
>
http://profiles.msn.com.
>
>
>***
Info:
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***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 18:17:11
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Which year VR4?
I have a '93 and a '94. I think you
might rather have a '95 because like
the '94 you get the best of technology
and the 6 speed, but maybe get a car
that's a year newer, less miles and
easier to get an extended warranty
(easier to find under 60K miles). If
I couldn't have a '94 or '95, I would
only want a '99 because of the box kite
spoiler. I think the 96-98 has the
whale tail spoiler, no active aero,
and no ECS. Do these still have all
wheel steering? I love my '93, but
I think the '94 has a littel better
stock brakes.
Heck, to paraphrase
Woody Allen, the worst VR4 is absolutely wonderful!
Chuck
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
ukyo@avana.net [
SMTP:ukyo@avana.net]
> Sent: Friday,
November 10, 2000 2:09 PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Which year VR4?
>
> Now that I have decided that I
must have a VR4 at all
> costs, I am paused to define what year would be
the
> best bet. I have read that certain features have been
> removed from the newer VR4s (ECS for one) and I would
> like to
get the most VR4 for my money. What year is
> considered the
perfect year model to have? I have a
> line on a '96, but it is my
understanding that it wil
> not have ECS. Is ECS that big of a
deal? can you feel
> a big difference in the suspension
modes? I have been
> told that '94 would be the best bet, but I am
unsure.
> If you guys can find the time to let me know your
> opinions I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in
>
advance.
>
> --Travis
> '97 3000GT (Base + K&N FIPK sans
Resonator Bottle / Red)
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:57:44
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Forged pistons
Hi Dave,
Trevor has already done some
research. See below. The Venolia and
Ross are 2618 T-61 aluminum. I am not
sure what the alloy is for the
JE and Wiesco. I have the Venolia and they
have withstood multiple
excursions to 1000ºC EGTs and 20+ knock counts.
Neither situation by
the way is something to aspire to. I have a short
description of my
Venolia pistons at my web site. Start at the Mods
page.
Jeff Lucius
--->
http://www.stealth316.com- -----
Original Message -----
From: <
UNCLEDONUT@aol.com>
To: <
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, November 09, 2000 4:22 PM
Subject: Team3S: Forged
pistons
Hey,
I'm in the process of rebuilding my '91 turbo
engine and would like
to get some opinions on the forged pistons
available. I'm leaning
towards JE right now for they seem to be the
popular choice.
I would also appreciate if anyone could tell me
who has the best
deals on any of the different brands
available.
Thanks,
Dave Rich
'91 RT/TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor L. James" <
trevor@kscable.com>
To: <
stealth@starnet.net>; <
stealth@stls.verio.net>;
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, September 07, 2000 10:00 AM
Subject: Team3S: What pistons should I
buy?
I'm getting forged pistons for my 96 R/T TT. I'm looking for
max
power but it's still going to be driven on the street on 91 octane.
I
really would like to lower the compression down to 7.8-1 but it
doesn't
look like that's going to be an easy proposition. Money IS an
object and
things are a bit tight. I'm in a hurry too! Here's the
options...
1.
Wiesco Pistons
.040" Over (92mm)
Copy of stock piston
8.5-1
Compression
Federal Mogul Rings
On
the shelf
$609.17
2. JE
Pistons
.020" or .030" Over
A few
changes made by AAM
8.2-1
Compression
Total Seal Rings
On the
shelf
$850.00
3. Venolia Pistons (Jeff Lucius
Edition HAHA!)
.050" Overbore
(92.4mm)
Copy of stock piston
8.2-1
Compression
??? Rings
3-4 week
wait
$1000.00
4. Ross/GT-Pro
Pistons
Any overbore I want
13+
Changes made by GT Pro
Any
compression
??? Rings
3 week
wait
$1049.00
Do you guys think that I'm going to
loose that much peak HP by going
with the Weisco's and their 8.5-1
compression? I wonder if the .040"
over will make up for it? They're too
cheap to pass up! Any opinion
or personal experience would be
appreciated!
Trevor James
96 R/T TT
12.65@107.9 w/Stock turbos and fueling on 91
octane
Now with 15G's, 550's, ARC2-GP, HKS pump, and low compression in
the
#4
cylinder...
92 GMC Typhoon
13.96@96.4__________________________________________________
Do
You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one
Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:15:47
-0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Which year VR4?
If you do not care about modifications, the '95 with its
partial ODBII is a
good bet (18" wheels). If mods are important, the
'95 models can be a bit
trickier to work with. The '94 (17" wheels) has
the an earlier ECU without
the ODBII sensors and code (49 state cars
anyway).
Other than that it would seem to be a wash since the '94 and '95
share the
desirable features (minus wheel size of course).
ECS is
nice, but I do not miss mine. It is quite subjective. GABs
+
excellent springs and suspension goodies more than make up for it for my
own
tastes. Yours and others may be
different.
Barry
> >>Now that I have decided that I
must have a VR4 at all
> >>costs, I am paused to define what year
would be the
> >>best bet. I have read that certain features
have been
> >>removed from the newer VR4s (ECS for one) and I
would
> >>like to get the most VR4 for my money. What year
is
> >>considered the perfect year model to have? I have
a
> >>line on a '96, but it is my understanding that it wil
>
>>not have ECS. Is ECS that big of a deal? can you
feel
> >>a big difference in the suspension modes? I have
been
> >>told that '94 would be the best bet, but I am
unsure.
> >>If you guys can find the time to let me know
your
> >>opinions I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
in
> >>advance.
> >>
> >>--Travis
>
>>'97 3000GT (Base + K&N FIPK sans Resonator Bottle /
Red)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 20:29:37
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: test
test..upgraded main file server to a new 750Gb
unit.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 14:38:40
-0000
From: "George Shaw" <
george.shaw@btinternet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Spot/Fog/Driving Lights
That time of year, I guess. I am just
back from a work trip to Galway
Ireland (food and drink superb) and had to
drive back in rain and fog in the
dark. The STD lights are not bad but I want
the best, so what are you guys
running. The 95 has no STD driving /fog lights
fitted so I have a clean
slate to start with. Can you suggest make model
performance etc or upgrades
to the lighting like HID I was going to fit a HID
kit some time back but
just did not get around to it. Over to you, light up
my
life.
eMail:
george.shaw@btinternet.comFax/Voice
Mail: +44 (0) 87 0133
6126
Mobile:
+44 (0) 78 1162
5179
Home:
+44 (0) 28 9062
8924
ICQ#:
1741675
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 08:22:15
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Spot/Fog/Driving Lights
Check the following link ---- it has good info on
automotive lighting, Including
things like how little light the new super
blue bulbs put out, some pf the problems
with the HID setups and the problems
with the PIAA lights. Good Info !!!!!
http://lighting.mbz.org/
Jim Berry
===================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: George Shaw <
george.shaw@btinternet.com>
>
That time of year, I guess. I am just back from a work trip to Galway
>
Ireland (food and drink superb) and had to drive back in rain and fog in
the
> dark. The STD lights are not bad but I want the best, so what are
you guys
> running. The 95 has no STD driving /fog lights fitted so I have
a clean
> slate to start with. Can you suggest make model performance etc
or upgrades
> to the lighting like HID I was going to fit a HID kit some
time back but
> just did not get around to it. Over to you, light up my
life.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:43:57
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Which year VR4?
Get a 94 VR-4 with all the fixins.
I
got a 95 with everything I could (active aero but no active exhaust or
ECS)
and am looking at about $1,200 to upgrade to good suspension. I
could
have spent much less for a year older of a car and gotten more
gadgets. The
94 is compatible with more things (like suspension) since
the sunroof has
different things supposedly thrown in for
suspension.
And I argue that the early 95 is the best with its manual
sunroof. I prefer
electric (don't have to get out to remove it and it
closes quickly in rain)
as mine has a sticker of Mfg in 11/94 but has no ECS
but a manual sunroof.
Don't forget that Stealth model ... I think in its
R/T TT model it is still
lighter than a VR-4.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, a Valentine One, and a custom spark
plug plate
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi-
-----Original Message-----
From: Curt Gendron [
mailto:curt_gendron@hotmail.com]
Sent:
Friday, November 10, 2000 15:53
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Which year VR4?
This is a very subjective topic, but I would
say an early 95 model is the
most desirable of the VR4s. Here is what
you have:
- - 6 speed Getrag tranny
- - 18" chrome rims
- - ECS
suspension
- - lexon headlights instead of glass or pop-ups
- - big manual
sunroof instead of smaller power sunroof
- - active aero
The eary 95
model VR4 is the only one that has all of these. Of course
these are
only my preferences......
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 11:31:51
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Let's go Viper Hunting!
I need some good tech advice on engine
mods. All I have right now is a K&N.
My requirements are somewhat
different than all you dragstrip demons,
because I run open track events on
road courses.
As it stands right now, a VR4 is the equal of every
street-driven, licensed
car on a road course, with the exception of Vipers,
TT AWD Porsches, and
Cobra Rs (and maybe new M3s and 911s, but I haven't seen
any yet). With
upgraded brakes and suspension, we can stay with them through
the twisty
bits, but they tend to pull away (or catch up) on the straights
with their
superior horsepower.
I want to build a car that can at
least stay with them on straights. I
don't have to be faster, just NOT
SLOWER. I have followed enough TT
Porsches to know that they are not that
much faster than us, but they are
definitely faster in a straight line. And
you haven't lived until you see a
Cobra R or a modded Supra in your mirrors,
coming up on you at 140+ like a
freight train.
I figure I need 400+ hp
to stay with them.
450 hp probably would be right on.
Here is what I
am planning:
Blitz DSBC boost controller (because it's simple and has
multiple
settings), running 15 psi mostly, 18 psi occasionally.
Spearco
water injection (to keep combustion temps down)
(There is slim
to no chance I will change these unless DSBCs are no
longer available. My
buddy Curt G knows how to make these work, and that
seems to be 95% of the
battle)
ATR downpipe.
Gut cats, remove main cat
Run custom-made
single exhaust to straight through muffler.
At the track, I will run 100+
octane racing gas.
Think this will do it?
Any other
suggestions?
When do I start getting into problems with overheated
intercoolers?
Do I need a knock sensor?
I have been blowing off my Y-pipe
lately -- is it time for a new one?
Suggestions?
Remember, I am not
looking for 11 second quarter miles here.
I need a system that will give me
good, constant horsepower for 20-30
MINUTES at a time -- sort of like our
friends do on the Autobahns --
without frying the engine internals or
overheating the engine.
All suggestions welcome, especially from Germany
and other open trackers.
Remember, I need power AND reliability.
In
2002, we'll probably go to a dedicated track car with 600 hp, depending
on
what kind of success Geoff has...but this year, I just want to have
the
fastest street-driven car on the track.
Rich/old poop/94
VR4
K&N
Big Red Porsche brakes w/Hawk Blues, SS lines, Ford fluid, air
ducting,
water injection.
(Air blowers and water injection to calipers
next).
Ground Control suspension w/Eibachs and camber plates
(Penske
shocks next)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#321
*********************