team3s
Thursday, November 9
2000 Volume 01 :
Number
319
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 08 Nov 2000 08:33:43 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tire question?
> I find it difficult to believe you are
routinely driving 169 mph. I think
> if you have a tire failure at
169 mph, the last thing you are going to worry
> about is the tire
warranty. Get real.
I'm pretty sure Mike is not worried about the
warranty. He's worried about his
life and wants a tire that is designed
for these sustained speeds and wants to
have confidence that the tires won't
fail. Hence, the reason for his original
inquiry. Also, what's up
with the condescending remark?
- --
If you lived in your car, you'd
be home by now.
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San
Diego
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 10:32:04
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Adventures in Braking
Here's the latest report on my brake
situation:
We ran Hawk Blue pads at Road America three weeks ago, and
wore them down
about 50%, so we decided that they would do for Heartland
Park. The rear
brakes were looking thin, but they seem to wear about a micron
each event,
so we figured they would last one more event. Alas, that is all I
got to do
to the car before the event (look at pad depth) because of too much
other
work (the kind that pays for these events).
So we went to
Heartland Park with the car virtually untouched (a wash job)
since Road
America. Big mistake.
First off, the rear brakes went south on the
second session on Saturday.
Fortunately, I brought along a spare set of stock
pads and slipped them in.
Took about a half hour. The Porterfield R4 rear
pads lasted about 5 driving
events over two years, so I can't
complain.
On Sunday, the pedal went soft. I mean, like down to the floor.
I could
pump it 2-3 times and they would come back, but when they stopped
coming
back I prudently exited the track.
Normally, I bleed the
brakes before every event, but I didn't do it this
time. So, we bled the
fronts in the rain, and it helped. Probably should
have bled the rears too,
but it was raining, dude!
As the track dried, I was still running street
tires, and braking just as
hard as ever. But the pads were starting to go
away, and I was seeing fade
for the first time with the Hawk Blues. Experts
tell me that the Blues go
away fast in the last half of their life, so I
should back off a little and
extend the braking zones. Besides, I didn't have
the same grip with the
street tires as I did with the Kumho race tires, so I
was applying the
brakes longer and heating them up more (funny how all that
stuff works
together).
Lessons learned:
Hawk Blues are my brake
pad of choice for open track running. They made it
through TWO track events,
and there is still some pad left. If I can't wear
them down in two events,
NOBODY can! I really hammer my brakes. Pagid
Blacks wear almost as well, but
they chunk at the edges and squeal like
crazy when cold.
Ford High
Performance brake fluid is the greatest bargain in racing, but
you MUST bleed
out all the gunky fluid from each caliper before an event.
Once it boils, it
does not recover as well as the more expensive Motul or
Racer's Blue. So,
bleed yer brakes until the fluid flows clear.
Rear brakes, contrary to
popular opinion, actually do a little work --
enough so that you really miss
them when they are gone. I guess that we
have real potential for improving
our stopping power by working with the
rears. I noticed that it doesn't stop
quite as well with stock pads in the
rear as it does with race pads, so I
will put some Hawk Blues back there. I
also have two check valves for the
rears that will go in this winter. The
check valves are supposed to keep a
small amount of pressure on the rear
pads so they are always ready to go.
Kinda like driving around years ago
with your emergency brake partly
on.
You CANNOT get enough cooling to the front brakes. Despite my
spaceage
plastic brake scoops and water injection to the rotors, it is not
enough
for truly aggressive braking. Although the pads may hold up, too much
heat
will boil fluid and ruin seals in the calipers. This winter I plan
to
install two NASCAR truck air blowers under the front valence to
force air
to the brakes through a separate duct system. I also plan to run
water
injection to the calipers. (I asked our TransAm brake specialist why
they
were injecting water down into the rotor vents at the caliper. He said
the
hot air coming out of the vents would flash the water to steam, and
this
would help cool the calipers, seals and pads. Since I have already
cooked
one seal on the Big Reds, I think I'll try this. TransAm cars only
reach
about 1000 F at the rotors; as you know, we can hit 1400 F)
I
also want to find another way to run the air ducts. I think I'll rip
out
those shitty, useless driving lights and see if I can't snake an air
duct
through there. Anybody know how to get the lights out?
So, here's
what my brake system will look like along about March next
year:
Fronts:
Porsche Big Red calipers
Hawk Blue
pads
Porterfield cryogenically treated stock rotors
BFG stainless steel
lines.
Ford High Performance brake fluid
Cooling air ducts with
scoops.
Water injection to the rotors.
New:
NASCAR blowers forcing air
through a second duct system
Water injection to the
calipers.
Rears:
Stock calipers and rotors
BFG stainless steel
lines
Ford High Performance brake fluid
New:
Hawk Blue pads
2psi
check valve (keeps pressure on the rear pads)
If anyone else has
suggestions, I'd sure like to hear them. Especially for
the
rears.
Despite all the problems, with the setup I have now I can outbrake
many
911s and M3s. My instructor at Road America was impressed with the
brakes,
and said it stopped better than his 944 S. So, thanks to Brad and his
Big
Red kit, our cars can brake with the big dogs.
Rich/old poop
94
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:27:29
EST
From:
NassiriC@aol.comSubject:
Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
I have a '97 VR-4 w/pwr sunroof, and
I along with quite a few other 95+
owners have been trying to figure this
one out with not luck at all. I spoke
directly with Eibach, and this
is what they said: 95+ cars with a pwr sunroof
have an extra brace in the
body for improved chassis rigidity, some how this
brace interfers with their
springs, and apparently all other after-market
springs. Eibach flat
out told me their springs won't work on my car at all.
I've looked for
this mysterious brace and I've not been able to find it,
however, it would
not be uncommon at all for a manufacture to do something
like this, so I
believe it's possible. I have not done a side-by-side
comparison with
a '94 - car.
I've talked to people that know the VR-4 well, and they all say
there is no
brace and even if there was it wouldn't interfer with the
springs. However,
when I press them they will not guarantee that the
springs will fit.
Bottom line I have not been able to find a single
person that has actually
installed aftermarket springs on a 95+ w/pwr
sunroof. I've found a lot of
anecdotal stories about a friend of a
friend that installed them, but when I
track them down it turns out that
they don't have a power sunroof, or it's a
'94. If anybody out there
has a definitive answer to this question it would
really help at least 8
other guys I know that are searching for answers.
Thanks for your
help
Cyrus
>I have searched their site as well as Eibach's and
can't find the listing
>for their kits in my car. Does anyone have a
95+ with auto sunroof and
>suspension mods? If so then what is it
(Tein, Tokico, GAB, Koni, etc.). I
>have heard that there is
moderate suspension bit differences between the 95+
>cars with manual and
automatic sunroof.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:48:28
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
Cyrus and all others,
If I
find a solution to our 95+ suspension upgrade problem then I will let
the
list know and see if we can get a group buy since about 10 of us will
be
interested in this.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, a custom spark plug plate, and looking
for
suspension
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg-
-----Original Message-----
From:
NassiriC@aol.com [
mailto:NassiriC@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday,
November 08, 2000 1:27 PM
To:
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
I have a '97 VR-4 w/pwr sunroof, and
I along with quite a few other 95+
owners have been trying to figure this
one out with not luck at all. I
spoke
directly with Eibach, and
this is what they said: 95+ cars with a pwr
sunroof
have an extra brace
in the body for improved chassis rigidity, some how this
brace interfers
with their springs, and apparently all other after-market
springs.
Eibach flat out told me their springs won't work on my car at all.
I've
looked for this mysterious brace and I've not been able to find it,
however,
it would not be uncommon at all for a manufacture to do something
like this,
so I believe it's possible. I have not done a side-by-side
comparison
with a '94 - car.
I've talked to people that know the VR-4 well, and they all
say there is no
brace and even if there was it wouldn't interfer with the
springs. However,
when I press them they will not guarantee that
the springs will fit.
Bottom line I have not been able to find a
single person that has actually
installed aftermarket springs on a 95+ w/pwr
sunroof. I've found a lot of
anecdotal stories about a friend of a
friend that installed them, but when I
track them down it turns out that
they don't have a power sunroof, or it's a
'94. If anybody out
there has a definitive answer to this question it would
really help at
least 8 other guys I know that are searching for answers.
Thanks for your
help
Cyrus
>I have searched their site as well as Eibach's and
can't find the listing
>for their kits in my car. Does anyone have a
95+ with auto sunroof and
>suspension mods? If so then what is it
(Tein, Tokico, GAB, Koni, etc.). I
>have heard that there is
moderate suspension bit differences between the
95+
>cars with manual
and automatic sunroof.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 12:57:59
CST
From: "Curt Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
I've heard some of these claims
about a mysterious "brace", but I've never
seen one either. I think
Eibach is making up a story, and I've got my own
theroy as to why.
In
the 1995 model year for VR4s, about halfway through the model year (11/94
I
think?) the VR4 no longer came with ECS suspension and the manul crank
sunroofs. In 11/94 they switched the VR4 to non-ECS suspension and
power
sunroofs. I know the stock rear springs for the non-ECS VR4 are
a little
more narrower than the ECS suspension springs. And hence the
perch is
slightly different.
I installed Eibach springs on my 95
Stealth R/T TT with non-ECS stock
springs. The Eibach springs did
fit,(not well though) but it didn't lower
the rear end at all. I ended
up cutting some coils off the Eibachs to lower
the rear.
Bottom line,
if you have a 95+ VR4 that does not have ECS, I'd stay away
from the Eibach
springs. I think Eibach made up that story about the brace,
when
really is a sping design issue.
later,
Curt
95 R/T TT with Eibach
springs that are missing 1.5 coils on the rear
>From:
NassiriC@aol.com>To:
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com,
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:27:29
EST
>
>I have a '97 VR-4 w/pwr sunroof, and I along with quite a few
other 95+
>owners have been trying to figure this one out with not luck at
all. I
>spoke
>directly with Eibach, and this is what they
said: 95+ cars with a pwr
>sunroof
>have an extra brace in the body
for improved chassis rigidity, some how
>this
>brace interfers with
their springs, and apparently all other after-market
>springs.
Eibach flat out told me their springs won't work on my car at
>all.
>I've looked for this mysterious brace and I've not been able
to find it,
>however, it would not be uncommon at all for a manufacture to
do something
>like this, so I believe it's possible. I have not done
a side-by-side
>comparison with a '94 - car.
>I've talked to people
that know the VR-4 well, and they all say there is no
>brace and even if
there was it wouldn't interfer with the springs.
>However,
>when I press them they will not guarantee that the
springs will fit.
>Bottom line I have not been able to find a single
person that has actually
>installed aftermarket springs on a 95+ w/pwr
sunroof. I've found a lot of
>anecdotal stories about a friend of a
friend that installed them, but when
>I
>track them down it turns
out that they don't have a power sunroof, or it's
>a
>'94. If
anybody out there has a definitive answer to this question it
>would
>really help at least 8 other guys I know that are searching
for answers.
>Thanks for your help
>Cyrus
>
> >I have
searched their site as well as Eibach's and can't find the listing
>
>for their kits in my car. Does anyone have a 95+ with auto sunroof
and
> >suspension mods? If so then what is it (Tein, Tokico, GAB,
Koni, etc.).
>I
> >have heard that there is moderate
suspension bit differences between the
>95+
> >cars with manual
and automatic sunroof.
>
>*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
_________________________________________________________________________
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Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
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***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:00:46
-0800
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: ECU swap?
A little more info for the lad...
The TMO
Datalogger,
http://www.tmo.com, is a software
analyzer tool that runs on
a Windows PC to communicate to your ECU (engine
computer). Most folks use a
battery powered laptop and collect engine
parameter data while driving. This
tool is extremely useful for tuning
your car when modifying and raising boost
levels above 15 psi. Critical
measurements are knock summation, timing retard,
O2 readings, etc.
Being able to tune with these measurements can be the
difference between
running safely at high boost levels (500+ HP) and melting
your
pistons.
Good luck,
Ken
> Check out the Links Page at my web
site. There are links there for
> the TechnoMotive (TMO) Datalogger. It is
a diagnostic and monitoring
> tool that is available for 1991 to 1993
model year 3S cars and all
> year DSM cars. Check out the Tech Page at my
web site for some
> examples from myself and others using the TMO
datalogger in our cars.
> ----- Original Message -----
>
From: <
Ouijacom@aol.com>
> To:
<
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 11:28 PM
> Subject: Team3S: ECU
swap?
>
> Hey I have a 93 3000GT VR-4... i'm 18 years old,I live in
Grand
> Rapids, Michigan.. any owners out there? i just bought this car
2
> months ago... .i'm learing alot about it.. .my old car was a 87
Supra
> Turbo. Now I have this car.. .i seen some comments about
datalogging?
> what is that? and what is it for? What are if there are any
quick
> mods or anyone that car direct me with this?
- --
If
you lived in your car, you'd be home by now.
Ken Middaugh (858)
455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:16:09
-0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Blocking off the EGR on the TT..
Hi Guys,
Thanks to
everyone who gave their valuable input.. I
unblocked the EGR valve last
weekend and have been
*almost* smoke free!!
Just thought it was weird
that other members have done
this and don't have the same side effects as I
did..
I also noticed EGT temp is lower with EGR blocked at
cruising
speed..
Well, anyways.. just glad that it wasnt a
blown-by..
/George
- ---
Merlin916@aol.com
wrote:
> Well to see when and why its smoking - you
have
> to know what the EGR does.
> The EGR is an Exhaust Gas
Recirculation system. It
> introduces exhaust gases
> into
the intake in order to reduce peak cylinder
> temperatures. The
oxygen in
> the air has already been burned, so it cant burn
>
again, and the cylinder
> temperatures decrease. Why do you need to
do this?
> To reduce emissions of
> oxides of nitrogen. The
EGR will close at warmup,
> as then you want to get
> cylinder
temperatures up quicky. Its closed at
> idle, as temperatures dont
> get high at idle anyway, and its closed at WOT, as
> you then
want maximum
> power. So the only time the EGR is open is a
>
mid-throttle cruise (2000-3500
> rpm). So if thats when your
getting that white
> smoke out of your exhaust, it
> may be a
result of the closed valve. If thats not
> when youre getting your
> smoke, or youre getting it at other times as well
> its probably
something
> else.
>
> as an aside - if you just told
me that you had white
> smoke coming out of
> yourexhaust, id
probaby guess it was coolant,
> probably from blow-by. That
>
would produce a very nasty smell. A compression
> test would
probably give you
> youre answer as to that one.
>
>
Joe
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one
Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:23:39
-0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
I do know that the 95+ cars have
a smaller spring diameter (~1/2" smaller)
in the rear which isn't produced by
eibach. I'm sure this story is what
they are telling people
for their reasoning to not produce springs for the
later model
cars.
Brad
Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Curt Gendron
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 12:58 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
I've heard some of these claims
about a mysterious "brace", but I've never
seen one either. I think
Eibach is making up a story, and I've got my own
theroy as to why.
In
the 1995 model year for VR4s, about halfway through the model year (11/94
I
think?) the VR4 no longer came with ECS suspension and the manul
crank
sunroofs. In 11/94 they switched the VR4 to non-ECS suspension
and power
sunroofs. I know the stock rear springs for the non-ECS VR4
are a little
more narrower than the ECS suspension springs. And hence
the perch is
slightly different.
I installed Eibach springs on my 95
Stealth R/T TT with non-ECS stock
springs. The Eibach springs did
fit,(not well though) but it didn't lower
the rear end at all. I ended
up cutting some coils off the Eibachs to lower
the rear.
Bottom line,
if you have a 95+ VR4 that does not have ECS, I'd stay away
from the Eibach
springs. I think Eibach made up that story about the brace,
when really
is a sping design issue.
later,
Curt
95 R/T TT with Eibach springs
that are missing 1.5 coils on the rear
>From:
NassiriC@aol.com>To:
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com,
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
>Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:27:29
EST
>
>I have a '97 VR-4 w/pwr sunroof, and I along with quite a few
other 95+
>owners have been trying to figure this one out with not luck at
all. I
>spoke
>directly with Eibach, and this is what they
said: 95+ cars with a pwr
>sunroof
>have an extra brace in the body
for improved chassis rigidity, some how
>this
>brace interfers with
their springs, and apparently all other after-market
>springs.
Eibach flat out told me their springs won't work on my car
at
>all.
>I've looked for this mysterious brace and I've not been
able to find it,
>however, it would not be uncommon at all for a
manufacture to do something
>like this, so I believe it's possible.
I have not done a side-by-side
>comparison with a '94 - car.
>I've
talked to people that know the VR-4 well, and they all say there is
no
>brace and even if there was it wouldn't interfer with the
springs.
>However,
>when I press them they will not guarantee that
the springs will fit.
>Bottom line I have not been able to find a single
person that has actually
>installed aftermarket springs on a 95+ w/pwr
sunroof. I've found a lot of
>anecdotal stories about a friend of a
friend that installed them, but when
>I
>track them down it turns
out that they don't have a power sunroof, or it's
>a
>'94. If
anybody out there has a definitive answer to this question
it
>would
>really help at least 8 other guys I know that are
searching for answers.
>Thanks for your help
>Cyrus
>
>
>I have searched their site as well as Eibach's and can't find the
listing
> >for their kits in my car. Does anyone have a 95+ with
auto sunroof and
> >suspension mods? If so then what is it (Tein,
Tokico, GAB, Koni, etc.).
>I
> >have heard that there is moderate
suspension bit differences between the
>95+
> >cars with manual
and automatic sunroof.
>
>*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
_________________________________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com.
Share
information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:28:44
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
Look, do it this way - you might be
out a few hundred bucks for a little
while, but it would be worth it to alot
of VR-4 owners.
According to the service manuals, there is no difference
between the models
with sunroof and without sunroof as far as spring
specification goes. The
Eibach springs are pretty identical to the
factory springs, although a
little less tall. This lessening in height
only takes up what would have
been suspension travel to start with - the
whole thing had to move int hat
area at one time to start. I feel
pretty confident in saying that they will
work without a hitch, especially if
you have looked and compared the inner
wheel wells yourself - this is the
only place a brace would have anythign to
do with any kind of
suspsension.
Besides - there are tons of people that would like Eibach
springs, so if yo
ubuy them, install the rear two first and see if they work
- I would do it
if I were you. If they don't - I'm sure you can easily
get rid of them for
what you payed for them.
- -Cody
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of
NassiriC@aol.comSent:
Wednesday, November 08, 2000 12:27 PM
To:
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
I have a '97 VR-4 w/pwr sunroof,
and I along with quite a few other 95+
owners have been trying to figure this
one out with not luck at all. I
spoke
directly with Eibach, and this
is what they said: 95+ cars with a pwr
sunroof
have an extra brace in the
body for improved chassis rigidity, some how this
brace interfers with their
springs, and apparently all other after-market
springs. Eibach flat out
told me their springs won't work on my car at all.
I've looked for this
mysterious brace and I've not been able to find it,
however, it would not be
uncommon at all for a manufacture to do something
like this, so I believe
it's possible. I have not done a side-by-side
comparison with a '94 -
car.
I've talked to people that know the VR-4 well, and they all say there is
no
brace and even if there was it wouldn't interfer with the springs.
However,
when I press them they will not guarantee that the springs will
fit.
Bottom line I have not been able to find a single person that has
actually
installed aftermarket springs on a 95+ w/pwr sunroof. I've
found a lot of
anecdotal stories about a friend of a friend that installed
them, but when I
track them down it turns out that they don't have a power
sunroof, or it's a
'94. If anybody out there has a definitive answer to
this question it would
really help at least 8 other guys I know that are
searching for answers.
Thanks for your help
Cyrus
>I have
searched their site as well as Eibach's and can't find the listing
>for
their kits in my car. Does anyone have a 95+ with auto sunroof
and
>suspension mods? If so then what is it (Tein, Tokico, GAB,
Koni, etc.). I
>have heard that there is moderate suspension bit
differences between the
95+
>cars with manual and automatic
sunroof.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:23:38
-0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
I'll let you all know soon about
the 95 spyder upgrade. I know where are
extra bracing
there.
I've installed springs in a 96 SL with a sunroof and a 97
VR4 with a
sunroof, I don't remember if they were power or not
though.
Brad
Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Schilberg, Darren
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 12:48
PM
To:
'NassiriC@aol.com';
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
Cyrus and all others,
If I
find a solution to our 95+ suspension upgrade problem then I will let
the
list know and see if we can get a group buy since about 10 of us will
be
interested in this.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, a custom spark plug plate, and looking
for
suspension
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg-
-----Original Message-----
From:
NassiriC@aol.com [
mailto:NassiriC@aol.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, November 08, 2000 1:27 PM
To:
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
I have a '97 VR-4 w/pwr sunroof, and
I along with quite a few other 95+
owners have been trying to figure this one
out with not luck at all. I
spoke
directly with Eibach, and this is
what they said: 95+ cars with a pwr
sunroof
have an extra brace in the
body for improved chassis rigidity, some how this
brace interfers with
their springs, and apparently all other after-market
springs. Eibach
flat out told me their springs won't work on my car at all.
I've looked
for this mysterious brace and I've not been able to find it,
however, it
would not be uncommon at all for a manufacture to do something
like this, so
I believe it's possible. I have not done a side-by-side
comparison with
a '94 - car.
I've talked to people that know the VR-4 well, and they all say
there is no
brace and even if there was it wouldn't interfer with the
springs. However,
when I press them they will not guarantee that
the springs will fit.
Bottom line I have not been able to find a single
person that has actually
installed aftermarket springs on a 95+ w/pwr
sunroof. I've found a lot of
anecdotal stories about a friend of a
friend that installed them, but when I
track them down it turns out that
they don't have a power sunroof, or it's a
'94. If anybody out
there has a definitive answer to this question it would
really help at
least 8 other guys I know that are searching for answers.
Thanks for your
help
Cyrus
>I have searched their site as well as Eibach's and
can't find the listing
>for their kits in my car. Does anyone have a
95+ with auto sunroof and
>suspension mods? If so then what is it
(Tein, Tokico, GAB, Koni, etc.). I
>have heard that there is
moderate suspension bit differences between the
95+
>cars with manual
and automatic sunroof.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:59:34
+0100
From: Jim Matthews <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Tire question?
Like others on this list, I frequently have the
opportunity to legally drive as
fast as my car will go. While it is
entertaining to explore the upper limits,
it just isn't fun to sustain speeds
of more than 135 mph or so for any length of
time. Driving at high
speeds is very demanding on your attention and your car.
The temperature
gauge doesn't budge from its normal readings, but with stock 9B
turbos, fuel
and exhaust and no EGT gauge, I can't be confident that the engine
is
operating within safe limits. Mike Chapleski up in Frankfurt sees
elevated
EGTs at high speeds in his '95 TT with Borla exhaust, and it only
makes sense
that my engine would be even more stressed. Mitsu made 13G
turbos stock on
Euro-spec VR-4s to reduce EGTs, not their profit
margin!
More important is the driver's ability to stay focused.
Some of you may
remember Roger Gerl's accident a few years ago, which goes to
show you that even
highly skilled and attentive drivers totally comfortable
with their car and its
abilities at the limit are unable to avoid stupid
mistakes made by others when
the speed differential is high (on the Autobahn,
most everyone is driving 100+
mph in the left lane, so you can be moving
along with the flow of traffic at
speeds that would sacrifice your license in
the States; but in Roger's case, he
was doing nearly 180 mph when a truck
pulled out in front of him going more than
100 mph slower!). At high
speeds, your car is covering A LOT of distance per
second, and there simply
isn't much time to react. Ever see the difference in
stopping distances
from 60 mph vs. 80 mph?
Just be careful! Both of these issues can
result in a wrecked car, or worse.
That said, this discussion of tire
speed ratings has me confused. What exactly
does the Z-rating's 149+
mph mean? All of the other ratings are specific
speeds, while 149+
seems to imply a range. Are Z-rated tires not as safe to 168
mph than
W-rated tires, or to 186 mph than Y-rated tires? If so, what is
a
realistic limit for Z-rated tires? Also, if W and Y ratings are
superior for
sustained high speeds, then is there any sacrifice in
drivability (eg- adhesion,
tendency to turn into hockey-pucks in the winter,
etc.)? Thanks.
- --
Jim Matthews - Munich, Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com (64 Kbps
ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://members.stealth-3000gt.st/~matthews/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPH)
Porterfield cryo-treated rotors,
RS4 pads, braided lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:55:57
-0800
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE:Suspension for 1995 VR-4
You '95+ owners shouldn't
despair, unless you are solely committed to
progressive rate springs.
The Ground Control kit fits '95+ cars and is only
about $180 more than the
Eibach Pro-Kit. The GC kit uses user selectable,
single rate (i.e. non
progressive) Eibach springs.
Progressive rate springs are however very
nice for a street car. They are
fairly comfortable going down the
freeway, but will get stiffer as cornering
force increases.
-
-Ken
- --
If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now.
Ken
Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 14:53:23
-0600
From: "Trevor L. James" <
trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: ECU swap?
The OBDII dataloggers really suck when compared to the
91-93 TMO version.
ANY OBDII datalogger will not have a knock sum
measurement. All you get is
"total timing" which is how much timing the
engines actually seeing. Basically
"base timing" minus "knock retard". You
have to guess whether or not you're
actually getting knock retard or if it's
just airflow ramping up and the ECU's
compensating.
Also the sampling rate
SUCKS in OBDII. I'm lucky to get 6 samples per second.
That's for all
measurements. If you log 12 different items they only update
once every two
seconds! :-( You end up only logging one (maybe two) item(s) at
a time when
you're datalogging in order to make sure you don't miss anything.
If I
were you I would attempt to convert the other way, I.E. to a 93
ECU...
Trevor James
96 R/T TT
12.65@107.9-Stock turbos & fueling w/91
octane
Now with 15G's, 550's, ARC2-GP, HKS Pump
92 GMC Typhoon
13.96@96.4Mihai Raicu wrote:
>
Team,
>
> This has probably been adressed in the past, so forgive me
if it has.
>
> Is the ECU interchangeable between the different
years? The part that
> concerns me is if I can swap out the ECUs in
my brother's 94 TT and my 95
> VR4 with a 96+ ECU? I guess this
question is valid for those with 1st gen
> cars also. If this is
possible, I/we all would have the option of getting
> 96+ ECU's from junk
yards and make our cars OBD II compliant (for which
> there is datalogging
software readily available between $100-300).
>
>
-MIKE-
aa2345@wayne.edu> 95 Red VR4
>
Apexi AVC-R Electronic Boost Controller
> K&N FIPK, Boost Gauge, EGT
Meter
>
> John, brother
iraicu@cs.wayne.edu> 94 Pearl
Yellow TT
> Apexi AVC-R Electronic Boost Controller
> K&N FIPK,
Boost Gauge, EGT Meter
> G Teck 0-60 (4.9 sec) 1/4 mile (13.34 sec @ 112.4
mph)
> Top speed after mods 169 mph
>
> Detroit Metro Area,
Michigan
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:52:22
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Tire question?
> Team,
>
> Thanks Darren Schilberg,
Michael Crose and Charles Willis for clarifying my
> tire rating
question. I will look around and see if there is much
> difference
in the prices on these tires, but if I can I will shoot to get a
> W (186
MPH) rating otherwise I will stick to the Z rating that I've always
> had
and that was good up to
now.
========================================================
I had
some of the same questions --- I just bought a set of Yokohama
A032R
competition tires, 155 - 40 - 17 Z rated at 149+. What the hell does
that mean??
I'm sure Breelove wouldn't put the tire on his jet car at 754 MPH
so what is the
limit.
In quest for the truth I checked with:
Tire rack --- it's different for each tire, I'm not sure, maybe 15
over etc. etc.
America's Tire co. where I bought my tires [ great prices
--- $15 less than Tire
Rack ] ---- It means faster then 149 but I'm not sure
of the upper limit.
Yokohama of North America ---- It's tested in the lab
for 149 but 'should' be good
up to 167 MPH. They test for 1 hour at the 149
MPH speed. I also heard 4 hours
and 6 hours, 1 seems the most
reasonable.
Bottom line ---- short bursts up to 170 or so are probably
not a problem, but,
keep in mind your betting your life on it.
Will I
test the 155+ area --- you bet, given the proper road conditions and
no
passenger seat speed limiter.
BTY I agree about limiting the
lectures about fast driving, he asked the tech list
a technical question
about tires, not how to live his life. I'm 58 years old and I
sure don't
need someone telling me about the evils of speed. Even when I was
18 I
knew that crashing my dads Grand Prix at 130 Mph was a bad thing. I
took more risks at 18 than I do at 58 because I was 10 foot tall and
bulletproof,
not because I didn't know any better. I'm a little more
circumspect in my old age
but I still take risks. I've been sky diving and
hang gliding and I've had my bike
up to 145 MPH, I'll go bungee jumping
someday and if I had an airplane it
would be fully
aerobatic.
Jim
Berry "I'd rather go out as
ashes than as dust"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 16:11:30
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tire question?
Cool, no more lectures.
Do you mean you
bought 255R40 17's? Yoko A032R's? Are you planning to
drive these
on the street? Even though they are DOT approved, like
other
competition tires, they are pretty soft compound, so don't expect
much
mileage. At 200 miles per track event we are only seeing about
2000 miles
total wear on a set.
I've found Discount Tire prices to
beat the pants off Tire Rack every time I
check. At about $167/tire,
you are looking at about 2.5 miles per $.
I think it would be easier to
understand some of these posts if y'all made a
clear distinction between what
you are doing for the street vs what you are
doing for the track. At
least part of your audience doesn't know.
Chuck
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:10:37
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Tire question?
From: Willis, Charles E.
To: 'Jim Berry'
> Cool, no more lectures.
Not from me --- but alas, we
have some mother hens who worry about their
friends in the 3S community [
it's nice to know someone cares
;-)
========================================================
> Do you
mean you bought 255R40 17's? Yoko A032R's? Are you planning
to
> drive these on the street? Even though they are DOT approved,
like other
> competition tires, they are pretty soft compound, so don't
expect much
> mileage. At 200 miles per track event we are only
seeing about 2000 miles
> total wear on a set.
Street and track ---
the car isn't my daily driver so I figure if I get a years
worth of use I'll
be
happy.
=================================================
Jim Berry
93 stealth TT ---- "arrest me red"
K&N FIPK --
Magnicore/.034" --- A'pexi AVC-R boost control
GAB struts --- GC/Eibach
600# F/350# R --- GC caster/camber plate
Roadrace engineering rear strut
tower -- 25mm hub centric front spacers
Yokohama A032 255-40-17
compition tires -- Enkei RP01 17X9 wheels
Porsche/Brembo [ big red ] brakes
--- Porterfield 315mm rotors
In the garage [ FIMC -- ARC2 -- 720 cc
injectors --- Arm1 A/F meter
Supra pump --- HKS peak hold boost and EGT ]
On order soon, I hope [ 18T
turbos plus custom pre-cat back exhaust ]
Gtech --- 0-60 = 4.75 -- 1/4 = 13.3
@ 110
mph
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:21:26
-0800
From: "noble" <
nketo@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Car won't start...Update 1
I'd like to add that the rotten
seafood smell is usually
amplified by
soldering.
Best,
Noble
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
Jannusch, Matt <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
Team3S <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, November 07, 2000 9:35 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car won't
start...Update 1
> > When you folks talk about leaky
capacitors, are you
> > referring to an electical property in which
they
> > won't hold a charge, or a visual property in which
>
> they ooze their insides (like an old dry-cell battery)?
>
>
Visual oozing like an old battery. Sometimes you can't see it if it
is
just
> starting to leak out the bottom of the capacitor. It
usually smells like
> rotten fish.
>
> -Matt
> '95
3000GT Spyder VR4
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#319
*********************
