team3s
Tuesday, November 7
2000 Volume 01
: Number
317
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 06 Nov 2000 01:53:41 -0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: VR4s Rule in the Rain
Race report:
Audi Quattro Club open
track event
Heartland Park, Topeka, Kansas
Nov. 4-5
Remember
Woodstock? How they chanted No Rain! No Rain!?
It didn't work. 400,000 people
all working together couldn't make it stop
raining.
One guy, standing
out there on Sunday afternoon chanting "More Rain! More
Rain!" couldn't make
it keep raining either.
That one guy was a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 driver
(me, of course) chanting
for more rain because, for one brief shining moment,
my AWD twin turbo VR4
was the class act in the Group 3 Intermediate run
group. In the rain, the
VR4 ran down just about every car in the class --
lapping some of them
twice in a session.
All except for a pesky
instructor in a twin turbo AWD Porsche who would
jump on the track every now
and then just to ruin my big moment.
I'm going to fix his wagon. Next
time I go to Heartland Park, I am going to
request him for an instructor.
Anybody who can run that fast in a 500 hp
twin turbo AWD German Edsel
deserves having me for a student as punishment.
This time out, I had the
slow ol' farmer dude, Jeff Lacina, as my
instructor. Jeff is plenty fast, but
he drives one of those ancient
technology RWD 78 Fairlanes (oops, 95 Mustang
GT 351 -- same thing, really).
The Quattro club neglected to pick up a
set of pylons, so we ran Heartland
Park nekkid: i.e., no cones marking corner
entry, apex and track out. Man,
I was lost.
(Note to newbies: many
driving schools place pylons at the turns to help us
learn the track: turn-in
points, apex, and corner exit locations.)
Last July, I had this track
down pretty well; but without the cones for a
crutch, I was lost. I knew HOW
to take the corners, I just didn't remember
WHERE to take 'em. Saturday in
the dry was pretty exciting for Jeff and me,
as I had to learn landmarks
instead of pylons.
At one point, I sailed into turn 4 out of the
carousel without lifting at
about 90 mph and got the VR4 completely sideways.
"Where were you?," asked
Jeff. I was actually on a different race track,
because 4 looks exactly
like another turn that is taken flat, without braking
(turn 7 at Road
America). Took me all dang day to find most of the apexes and
relearn all
the lines, and I finally turned a 2:12, a reasonable time,
considering the
cold track.
Picking landmarks is kinda fun. Like in
the carousel. I enter the Carousel
in 3rd gear, at about 75, and stay way to
the outside of the turn. This
avoids all the bumps on the inside line. The
carousel is a constant-radius
left turn about a quarter-mile long, and you
take it at a constant speed.
Toward the end of the turn, there are three
white lines painted on the road
on the inside (left) of the turn. When you
see the first line, you start
edging over toward the left, until you touch
the curbing in the middle of
the third line and clip the apex. See? Who needs
pylons?
Sunday dawned damp, and I was smart enough to listen to another
Iowa
farmer/M3 driver, who had changed to rain tires even though it
wasn't
raining. He said the forecast was for rain (farmers live and die by
weather
forecasts) and he didn't want to change tires in the pouring down
rain, so
he changed them early. I've learned that Iowa farmers are among
the
smartest people in the entire world (except for their desire to
actually
live in Iowa), so I also changed my tires back to the street
Michelin
Pilots. Smart move.
First run for Group 3 was on a very wet
track, with everybody slipping and
sliding except yours truly. I took a brief
moment to size up the traction
and discovered that Pilots stop very, very
well in the wet and stick pretty
good in the corners. With the AWD preventing
wheelspin, we circulated with
2:25-2:30 laps, probably 15-20 seconds faster
than most. Like I said, I
lapped some people twice. The second run in
the morning was about the same,
with the rain coming down steadily.
Then it stopped raining.
And I started chanting: "More Rain! More
Rain!"
But the track was drying. Drat!
It's really cool to see the
dry line emerge from a wet track. It's better
than pylons, actually, because
you can actually see the proper line laid
out on the track.
Seeing
the dry line helped me find the proper line through 12, which I had
been
seeking for two days. Once I saw the line emerge, I remembered that 12
is
taken by turning in before the apex and then hammering the throttle. You
clip
the very late apex running about 80 mph at full throttle and the car
fairly
launches itself straight into 13. Whoa! What a rush!
Actually there are
two places at Heartland Park where you get a rocketship
launch: the other is
at the aforementioned 4, a right turn immediately
after the lefthand
carousel. If you take it properly, which means stab the
brakes (remember
those brakes!), apply full power before the apex, and clip
the inner curbing
at about 80 mph, it launches you straight toward the
corner station at 5 and
100+ mph comes up in a very big hurry.
I turned a 2:17 Sunday running on
the mostly dry (damp in places) track on
street tires, only 5 seconds slower
than on Kumho race tires in the dry on
Saturday. Having to drive smoothly and
precisely in the rain really helps
you learn a track. I am guessing that I
have a 2:08-2:10 dry/Kumho time in
me, now that I've run it in the
rain.
This was my first time running in the rain, and I loved it. The
Mitsubishi
was at home, and it kept getting faster and faster. "C'mon
Richie," it
would say to me. "I can go faster than that." And, bigawd, it
did. It was
bloody amazing how well that car sticks. AWD is wonderful. Only
got it off
in the grass one time, because of cold tires and brain fade on the
first
lap of a session -- otherwise, it was a wonder in the wet.
People packed up and took off in droves on Sunday, leaving us with
smaller
and smaller run groups. The Quattro Club started combining groups on
Sunday
afternoon.
They let me run with the instructors in one session
and, to their credit, I
didn't pass a single one. Even though they are
driving inferior cars, such
as BMW M3s and Porsches, those dudes are such
fantastic drivers I could not
catch them even with my superior car.
We had to pack up and leave mid-afternoon for our 7 hour, 400 mile run
back
to Iowa, but I suspect that the true believers were running as many laps
as
they wanted late Sunday afternoon.
Although I cursed the
organizers for forgetting the pylons, it all worked
out for the best. I
learned two very valuable lessons:
1. Learn the track, not the
pylons.
2. Running in the rain is a great way to learn a track.
Hope I
remember all those landmarks from now until next April.
Once again, I
was the only Mitsubishi VR4 at the track. I had hopes that
another Mitsu
driver -- Chuck Willis -- would be there, but he got sick on
Thursday.
Someday, I will have the opportunity to run with another VR4 and
compare
notes. The chief instructor told me I was "an aggressive driver."
Who me?
Nah, it's my car. It keeps urging me to go faster. Wait'll you see
TWO of us
on the track!
Rich
94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Twin Turbo AWD
Springs,
lowered, camber kit, Porsche brakes, stock motor
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:14:48
-0500
From: "Infernalist" <
baali@wwnet.net>
Subject: Team3S: 92
Stealth Body Parts
Greets all!
My name is Ron Zilinsky, and I was
lucky enough two weeks ago to purchase a
Stealth RT/TT. Unfortunately I was
lucky enough to meet a soccer mom trying
to be mario andretti with a mini-van
in a parking lot :( extreme damage to
left front, oil everywhere etc. I will
need a new front bumper among other
things, and was wondering, is there
anywhere online I can order aftermarket,
high quality parts? I was looking at
the Veilside front bumpers, and while
they look nice, I'm not sure they will
bolt on the stealth. does anyone know
the answer to this? or where I can get
a kit for my car? thanks in advance.
Ron Zilinsky
92 Stealh RT/TT
K&N FIPK
More to come (gimme a break, its two weeks old :)
91 Corvette
LT1 415 HP and rising
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 08:43:15
-0800
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Car won't start...Help!
Hi Folks,
My car will no longer
start. Could this be the dreaded dead ECU problem? If
so, what
prices have folks paid and where have you had it repaired?
(I'm
checking the old posts now).
Details. 1991 VR4, 127,000
miles. Saturday, I was at a stoplight in downtown
San Diego on my way
to the inaugural Grand Prix. When the light turned green, I
noticed my
engine quit running. I coasted to the curb, cranked the engine but
it
would not start. I called AAA club and waited for a tow.
Occasionally, I
tried to restart the car. Finally, after 2 1/2 hours of
waiting for a flatbed
tow truck, the engine started, there was a slight pop
at startup. I warmed up
the engine for a few minutes. Stopped and
restarted the engine just fine. I
canceled the tow truck and began the
40 mile drive home. The engine ran
normally for awhile, but after 20
miles, the engine 'shut off' while cruising on
the freeway. No
hesitation or stumbling indicative of a fuel problem, just
instantaneously
off like an electrical problem. It would not start. I had
it
towed home. I put on the battery charger. The car still
wouldn't start
Saturday night, or Sunday either.
So, what do you email
diagnosticians think?
Thanks in advance,
Ken
PS - I did make it
to the San Diego Grand Prix on Sunday. It really is great to
have
events like this in one's own county!
- --
If you lived in your car,
you'd be home by now.
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General
Atomics
San Diego
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:46:10
-0800
From: "noble" <
nketo@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Car won't start...Help!
Ken,
If it is the CPU, it might be
already too late.
However, you can try to fix it :)
It just so happens
that I've ripped out my CPU for the exact same
problems occuring on the
DSM's: leaking capacitors.
There are 3 you'd have to contend with on the
3000's circuit board.
Each has an average life roughly 5-7 years.
Over
time, the capacitors will eat through your board.
The capacitors you'd
need can be found at digikey.com
Ask them for part numbers:
P5570
(47uf 50V, replaces p5275)
p5273 (22uf 50V)
p5231 (100uf
16V)
Shipping and handling is pricey, but these parts are all less than
$1.
You'll have to remove the bad capacitors and replace them with
these.
If time is an issue, any reputable electronics shop should be able to
do
it quickly with these parts.
If it is anything else on the circuit
board, you're out of luck,
but I'd try it first since it's cheaper than the
$1000+ the dealer wants...
I hope it's not anything
major:)
Best,
Noble
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
To:
Team3S <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, November 06, 2000 8:43 AM
Subject: Team3S: Car won't
start...Help!
> Hi Folks,
>
> My car will no longer
start. Could this be the dreaded dead ECU problem?
If
> so, what
prices have folks paid and where have you had it repaired? (I'm
>
checking the old posts now).
>
> Details. 1991 VR4, 127,000
miles. Saturday, I was at a stoplight in
downtown
> San Diego on
my way to the inaugural Grand Prix. When the light turned
green,
I
> noticed my engine quit running. I coasted to the curb, cranked
the engine
but
> it would not start. I called AAA club and waited
for a tow.
Occasionally, I
> tried to restart the car. Finally,
after 2 1/2 hours of waiting for a
flatbed
> tow truck, the engine
started, there was a slight pop at startup. I
warmed up
> the
engine for a few minutes. Stopped and restarted the engine just
fine.
I
> canceled the tow truck and began the 40 mile drive
home. The engine ran
> normally for awhile, but after 20 miles, the
engine 'shut off' while
cruising on
> the freeway. No hesitation
or stumbling indicative of a fuel problem,
just
> instantaneously off
like an electrical problem. It would not start. I
had it
>
towed home. I put on the battery charger. The car still wouldn't
start
> Saturday night, or Sunday either.
>
> So, what do you
email diagnosticians think?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
Ken
>
> PS - I did make it to the San Diego Grand Prix on
Sunday. It really is
great to
> have events like this in one's
own county!
> --
> If you lived in your car, you'd be home by
now.
>
> Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
> General Atomics
>
San Diego
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 18:26:54
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Car won't start...Help!
>My car will no longer
start. Could this be the dreaded dead ECU problem? If
>so,
what prices have folks paid and where have you had it repaired?
(I'm
>checking the old posts now).
More a problem in the
connections. I'd start with el. contact cleaner
first. When removing teh
ECU, open it and check the capacitors if they are
leaking. I'd change them
at this time anyways.
>tow truck, the engine started, there was a
slight pop at startup.
Pop was due to the excessive fuel in the
chamber.
>normally for awhile, but after 20 miles, the engine 'shut
off' while
>cruising on
>the freeway. No hesitation or
stumbling indicative of a fuel problem, just
>instantaneously off like an
electrical problem. It would not start.
Problem could also be
related to the ignition transistors or the power
module. Check if there is
spark when cranking over.
>So, what do you email diagnosticians
think?
- - ECU
- - ECU connection
- - Power Module
- - Power
Transistors
- - Connections of the above
Not sure, but do you have a
Datalogger. If so, put key to ign. position and
try to conntect to the ECU.
If the connection fails, the ECU is not
working. If it is it should show you
a code.
Good luck
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:49:17
-0600
From: "john adams" <
johnqadamsiii@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: alarm, was 5 speed problems
Hi Cody,
Thanks for the
help. I was thinking perhaps my first post to the list ended
up in 'the void'
somewhere.
Since you offered, ill list the symptoms more clearly for you or
anyone else
with the insight into it.
Of course, the hugest headache is
that the key won't turn into lock/release
position. Second, the headlights
won't fall down, and third the windows
won't go up/down. And, if it helps
any, the locks do work, as do the lights
themselves. For the reason i stated
previously i disconnected the batt.
overnight. Each time i reconnect or
simply open the door the alarm goes
off - but the only thing happening is
that the driving lights
blink on and off, and the alarm remote has no effect
whatsover (turning the
key on/off twice stops it). I was rather of the
thinking that it could have
been related to water damage of some variety as
one possible culprit.
Afterall, there was water in the motor when i bought,
which is part of the
reason why i got it for dirt cheap, although now it runs
great. I did notice
some peculiar clear plastic electronic box tie wrapped
beneath the steering
column which looks like some rust or capacitor debris
has coated 1/4 of it
(cant tell what the hell it does). I disconnected this
just to see what
happened and nothing. Also there is an on/off toggle switch
beneath the dash
on the far left side with a yellow indicator light which
does nothing either
apparently. At any rate, all the fuses look good
(replaced one ignition
fuse), andhavent tested the relays and what not. I
hope this goes very far
in the way of helping to clarify further on this
little scenario. Thanks
for any attention to the
matter!
regards,
john - 93 stealth es
- -----Original
Message-----
From: cody <
overclck@flash.net>
To: john adams
<
johnqadamsiii@yahoo.com>
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 11:50 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Synchro 5 spd.
problems
>To disable the alarm, entirely, you will have to remove
it. It is a hard
>procedure due to where it is located. Iit on
the drivers side of the car,
>near the rear 6x9 speaker under the
panel. Get under that panel, and
>disconnect it. About the
other electrical stuff, i would need you to tell
>me exactly what
symptoms, and I think i can
help...
>
>-Cody
>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of john adams
>Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 11:26 PM
>To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
Team3S: Synchro 5 spd. problems
>
>
>I was curious as to
whether anyone is aware of what causes this
>apparently common problem in
the 5speed trannies, as well as the "plague"
>which tends to hit the
output shaft. Certain Alfa Romeos had a similar
issue
>with
>the
1-2 synchro, which it turns out - as a fellow who spoke with a, or
the,
>head Alfa
>designer recently told me - the problem arose from
the fact that the manual
>called
>for the same weight of
transmission oil as the rear-end, which was intended
>to
simplify
>matters for the consumer, or perhaps prevent them from using one
in the
>wrong place.
>The effect was to cause too much wear over
time on the synchros, and to
>prevent the problem i was told the use of a
higher than called for
viscosity
>Redline oil would
>cure the
syndrome. At any rate, im kind of glad in this respect that i've
>got the
auto trans.
>but perhaps there is, if not a solution, a decent reason
behind this issue
>for the 5 spd owner.
>
>Incidentally, I was
a little hopeful of getting a response to the
electrical
>issues
that
>still face me. Namely, the ignition keylock position and release,
windows,
>and headlight
>motor not working/alarm causing the lights
to flash and otherwise being
>non-responsive. Anyone know how to disable
the alarm...? Thanks in advance
>if anyone
>might have a piece of
advice or two. I'm actually too broke to buy the
>manual
>for now
after purchasing the car.
>
>regards,
>john, 93 stealth
es
_________________________________________________________
Do
You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at
http://mail.yahoo.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 01:35:06
-0600
From: "john adams" <
johnqadamsiii@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: 5 speed problems
Hi Cody,
Thanks for the help. I
was thinking perhaps my first post to the list ended
up in 'the void'
somewhere.
Since you offered, ill list the symptoms more clearly for you or
anyone else
with the insight into it.
Of course, the hugest headache is
that the key won't turn into lock/release
position. Second, the headlights
won't fall down, and third the windows
won't go up/down. And, if it helps
any, the locks do work, as do the lights
themselves. For the reason i stated
previously i disconnected the batt.
overnight. Each time i reconnect or
simply open the door the alarm goes
off - but the only thing happening is
that the driving lights
blink on and off, and the alarm remote has no effect
whatsover (turning the
key on/off twice stops it). I was rather of the
thinking that it could have
been related to water damage of some variety as
one possibile culprit.
Afterall, there was water in the motor when i bought,
which is part of the
reason why i got it for dirt cheap, although now it runs
great. I did notice
some peculiar clear plastic electronic box tie wrapped
beneath the steering
column which looks like some rust or capacitor debris
has coated 1/4 of it
(cant tell what the hell it does). I disconnected this
just to see what
happened and nothing. Also there is an on/off toggle switch
beneath the dash
on the far left side with a yellow indicator light which
does nothing either
apparently. At any rate, all the fuses look good
(replaced one ignition
fuse), andhavent tested the relays and what not. I
hope this goes very far
in the way of helping to clarrify further on this
little scenario. Thanks
for any attention to the
matter!
regards,
john - 93 stealth es
- -----Original
Message-----
From: cody <
overclck@flash.net>
To: john adams
<
johnqadamsiii@yahoo.com>
Date:
Sunday, November 05, 2000 11:50 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Synchro 5 spd.
problems
>To disable the alarm, entirely, you will have to remove
it. It is a hard
>procedure due to where it is located. Iit on
the drivers side of the car,
>near the rear 6x9 speaker under the
panel. Get under that panel, and
>disconnect it. About the
other electrical stuff, i would need you to tell
>me exactly what
symptoms, and I think i can
help...
>
>-Cody
>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of john adams
>Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 11:26 PM
>To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
Team3S: Synchro 5 spd. problems
>
>
>I was curious as to
whether anyone is aware of what causes this
>apparently common problem in
the 5speed trannies, as well as the "plague"
>which tends to hit the
output shaft. Certain Alfa Romeos had a similar
issue
>with
>the
1-2 synchro, which it turns out - as a fellow who spoke with a, or
the,
>head Alfa
>designer recently told me - the problem arose from
the fact that the manual
>called
>for the same weight of
transmission oil as the rear-end, which was intended
>to
simplify
>matters for the consumer, or perhaps prevent them from using one
in the
>wrong place.
>The effect was to cause too much wear over
time on the synchros, and to
>prevent the problem i was told the use of a
higher than called for
viscosity
>Redline oil would
>cure the
syndrome. At any rate, im kind of glad in this respect that i've
>got the
auto trans.
>but perhaps there is, if not a solution, a decent reason
behind this issue
>for the 5 spd owner.
>
>Incidentally, I was
a little hopeful of getting a response to the
electrical
>issues
that
>still face me. Namely, the ignition keylock position and release,
windows,
>and headlight
>motor not working/alarm causing the lights
to flash and otherwise being
>non-responsive. Anyone know how to disable
the alarm...? Thanks in advance
>if anyone
>might have a piece of
advice or two. I'm actually too broke to buy the
>manual
>for now
after purchasing the car.
>
>regards,
>john, 93 stealth
es
_________________________________________________________
Do
You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at
http://mail.yahoo.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:03:33
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: alarm, was 5 speed problems
> Of course, the hugest
headache is that the key
> won't turn into lock/release
position.
In the doors, or in the ignition switch? Squirt some
WD-40 in there and see
if it loosens it up. If it is hosed already, you
can't really break it much
more.
> Second, the headlights won't
fall down, and third
> the windows won't go up/down. And, if it
helps
> any, the locks do work, as do the lights
>
themselves.
If the car was sunk in water, like it sounds it was, then it
isn't beyond
reason that the motors for the headlights are toast.
>
For the reason i stated previously i disconnected
> the batt. overnight.
Each time i reconnect or
> simply open the door the alarm goes off - but
the
> only thing happening is that the driving lights
> blink on and
off, and the alarm remote has no effect
> whatsover (turning the key
on/off twice stops it).
> I was rather of the thinking that it could
have
> been related to water damage of some variety as
> one
possible culprit.
Most likely water damage to the alarm. Is this an
aftermarket alarm system
or a factory one? Sounds like
aftermarket. Tear the damn thing out and
forget about it.
>
Also there is an on/off toggle switch beneath the
> dash on the far left
side with a yellow indicator
> light which does nothing either
apparently.
Sounds like an aftermarket alarm valet switch.
> At
any rate, all the fuses look good (replaced
> one ignition fuse),
andhavent tested the relays
> and what not. I hope this goes very far in
the
> way of helping to clarify further on this little
> scenario.
Thanks for any attention to the matter!
Test the relays for the affected
systems. If water finds its way into a
relay it doesn't take long to
corrode the contacts and make the relay
useless. If you don't have a
service manual, get one. In a water-soaked
car you are going to need it
even more than the rest of us.
Hope you didn't pay much more than $1000
for this car... There are so many
electrical systems in these cars that
you are going to likely have
electrical trouble with it until the day it goes
to the scrapyard.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:11:49
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Car won't start...Help!
Ken
I had an oddball hard start/idle
problem,cold start only, it was intermittent,maybe
once or twice a month,
worse when colder weather [Southern California cool].
The car wouldn't idle,
it would start, run rough for a few seconds and then shut
off, I could hear
the MFI relay click at the same time it died --- no engine code
was stored.
The only way I could get it going was to nurse the RPM above
2000 RPM and
hold it there until the engine warmed up. It finally started to have
the same
problem consistently ---- finally time to fix it. I checked the Idle
speed
stepper motor and it checked OK but I pulled it and cleaned it anyway
--- no
change. I checked the throttle position sensor and found the throttle
closed
switch showed 20 ohms not 0 as in a closed switch, HMMMMM ---- dealer
said
$165 for the part, ouch, I decided to live with the problem for
awhile.
In the meantime I decided to install the AVC-R and while doing so I
thought
I'd look at the three electrolytic capacitors on the ECU that have a
tendency to
leak and cause problems, lo and behold the 47 microfarad cap by
the connectors
hade the good old rotten fish smell and a bunch of corrosion
had built up around
one of the power transistors adjacent to it. I removed
all three caps, cleaned the
board of corrosion, replaced the caps and as a
result seemed to have cured my
start problem [ this was only about 2 weeks
ago]. The throttle position switch
still shows a problem but the
start/idle problem has disappeared.
There's a thread in the team3s list
on the capacitors and how to change
them.
Jim
Berry
=========================================================
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
To:
Team3S <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Hi Folks,
>
> My car will no longer start. Could this be the
dreaded dead ECU problem? If
> so, what prices have folks paid and
where have you had it repaired? (I'm
> checking the old posts
now).
>
> Details. 1991 VR4, 127,000 miles. Saturday, I
was at a stoplight in downtown
> San Diego on my way to the inaugural
Grand Prix. When the light turned green, I
> noticed my engine quit
running. I coasted to the curb, cranked the engine but
> it would
not start. I called AAA club and waited for a tow. Occasionally,
I
> tried to restart the car. Finally, after 2 1/2 hours of waiting
for a flatbed
> tow truck, the engine started, there was a slight pop at
startup. I warmed up
> the engine for a few minutes. Stopped
and restarted the engine just fine. I
> canceled the tow truck and
began the 40 mile drive home. The engine ran
> normally for awhile,
but after 20 miles, the engine 'shut off' while cruising on
> the
freeway. No hesitation or stumbling indicative of a fuel problem,
just
> instantaneously off like an electrical problem. It would not
start. I had it
> towed home. I put on the battery
charger. The car still wouldn't start
> Saturday night, or Sunday
either.
>
> So, what do you email diagnosticians think?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ken
>
> PS - I did make it to
the San Diego Grand Prix on Sunday. It really is great to
> have
events like this in one's own county!
> --
> If you lived in your
car, you'd be home by now.
>
> Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
>
General Atomics
> San Diego
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 10:46:32
-0800
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Car won't start...Help!
Thanks Noble, Roger, & Jim for
the great advice. Also to Vineet for his 'Burned
ECU' post from last
June.
I'll swap my ECU with a buddie's tonight to determine if this is
definitely the
culprit. Then we'll look at the parts of both boards to
check the condition of
the capacitors, the chips, and the general condition
of the traces.
Depending on what we find, I'll decide to try to repair
myself, or send in to
one of the ECU repair places. Foreign Auto
Computer Repair had the best
warranty and best price -- $225 repair with 18
month warranty. FYI, a new ECU
lists for over $900, and Norco Mitsu
discounts to $774.
I'll update you tomorrow. Thanks
again,
Ken
- --
If you lived in your car, you'd be home by
now.
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San
Diego
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 13:55:43
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: High Tech Brake Scoops
Photos are just in from Heartland Park,
featuring my high technology brake
scoops.
I want you folks to know
that I looked far and wide to find these scoops. I
went through the plumbing
and gutter sections of Menard's and Payless
Cashways, searched through the
parts bins of appliance and electronics
stores, and perused countless
catalogs before finally coming across some
space-age plastics that seem to
work. If you would like to see the very
latest in ultra high technology brake
scoops, just go to:
www.bazillionbooks.comscroll down
to the end of the book listings, to where it says Racing Photos
Click on
Heartland Park, November 4-5, 2000
These are unmodified digital pix, so
the pix section is 1 MB.
If any kind person would like to capture these pix,
convert them to
something of more reasonable size, and send them back, I
would appreciate
it very much.
Thanks to Jeff Lacina (slow ol' farmer
dude), who took the photos.
Rich
94 Mitsubishi 3000GT V4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 16:28:32
-0600
From: "Trevor L. James" <
trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Turbo guys have got to see this!!!
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0527/P_1/article.htmlIt's
a electronics package that figures out when to trigger an intercooler
water
spraying system. It uses injector duty cycle compared to actual
intercooler
temp vs. ambient temp. ULTRA SWEET! The bare bones one runs $47.68
or so even
after shipping to the states from Australia. Damn, that things
cool!
Trevor
96 Stealth R/T TT
12.65@107.9-Stock turbos & fueling on 91
octane
Lotsa new mods but it's in the shop getting new forged
pistons...
92 GMC Typhoon
13.96@96.4*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:34:19
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Car won't start...Help!
If it is just the capacitors almost any
electronics shop should be able to replace
them for $50 or less ---- it
should take about half an hour.
Hell drive it up to Mission Viejo [ a bit
north of San Juan Capistrano] and I'll
fix it for
you.
Jim Berry
=====================================================
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Cc:
Team3S <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, November 06, 2000 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car won't
start...Help!
> Thanks Noble, Roger, & Jim for the great
advice. Also to Vineet for his 'Burned
> ECU' post from last
June.
>
> I'll swap my ECU with a buddie's tonight to determine if
this is definitely the
> culprit. Then we'll look at the parts of
both boards to check the condition of
> the capacitors, the chips, and the
general condition of the traces.
>
> Depending on what we find,
I'll decide to try to repair myself, or send in to
> one of the ECU repair
places. Foreign Auto Computer Repair had the best
> warranty and
best price -- $225 repair with 18 month warranty. FYI, a new ECU
>
lists for over $900, and Norco Mitsu discounts to $774.
>
> I'll
update you tomorrow. Thanks again,
> Ken
> --
> If you
lived in your car, you'd be home by now.
>
> Ken Middaugh (858)
455-4510
> General Atomics
> San Diego
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 18:48:18
-0600
From: "Dale T. Kroetz" <
kroetz@mvn.net>
Subject: Team3S: Interior
lighting
Hello all,
I've asked this question before
with mixed replies. Does anyone with
a first gen. 3KGT know for sure if the
passenger side door switches are
supposed to be lighted? I have some kind
of grounding problem with my
glove box light and wondered if it
affects the door switches also?
Thanks in advance.
-
--
Dale T. Kroetz
kroetz@mvn.net***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:57:26
EST
From:
Sportsmobile101@aol.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Interior lighting
The switches on mine are lighted, so i
guess yours should be too. What do
you have? Perhaps the base model
doesn't. good
luck.
Chris.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 16:59:57
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Interior lighting
No !!! the passenger door switches are not lit
--- a few folks have added
led's to replicate the drivers side
switches.
Jim
berry
=================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Dale T. Kroetz <
kroetz@mvn.net>
To: 3000GT List <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, November 06, 2000 4:48 PM
Subject: Team3S: Interior
lighting
> Hello all,
> I've asked
this question before with mixed replies. Does anyone with
> a first gen.
3KGT know for sure if the passenger side door switches are
> supposed to
be lighted? I have some kind of grounding problem with my
> glove
box light and wondered if it affects the door switches also?
>
Thanks in advance.
>
> --
>
>
>
> Dale
T. Kroetz
>
kroetz@mvn.net>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:22:29
-0500
From: "Trent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Eiback Spring Rates
For those interested, I was informed by
Eibach tech service that the one and
only spring kit offered for our cars
uses progressive wound springs with an
initial rate of 228 lbs. to a final
rate of 428 lbs. for the front with an
initial rate of 154 lbs. and a final
rate of 228 lbs. for the rear. This is
the 1.3in. drop Pro-Kit that
most of the vendors offer. (part# 2811.140).
With the help of Curt Gendrons
magic coupon numbers I ordered these with the
Goodrich break line kit for
$425.00 from CarParts.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
Track Time
Freshman
_______________________________________________
Why pay for
something you could get for free?
NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and
Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:24:52
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: High Tech Brake Scoops
If anybody out there got tired of waiting
for the 1MB file with pix of my
high-tech brake scoops to download, try
again.
Thanks to a couple of friends who know how to manipulate photo files,
I now
have much smaller file size pix out there, so the site should load
much
faster.
To see the scoops, go to:
www.bazillionbooks.comscroll down
through the book listings to Racing Photos
Click on Heartland Park, November
2000
Rich/94 Mitsubishi
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:55:53
-0600
From: "john adams" <
johnqadamsiii@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: alarm, was 5 speed problems
Greetings Matt,
>>
Of course, the hugest headache is that the key
>> won't turn into
lock/release position.
>
>In the doors, or in the ignition
switch? Squirt some WD-40 in there and
see
>if it loosens it
up. If it is hosed already, you can't really break
it
much
>more.
>
No, actually it is the ignition lock and
release position that is the
problem.
I assume it has to do with a park
position relay or something (since it has
to
be in park to release). Or,
it could be the brake switch or relay, since the
brakes must be
engaged to
move in and out of park - yet it freely does so.
By the way, i wouldnt at all
recommend using wd40 in locks - it makes
things worse in the long run for the
interior of the lock. Graphite is the
usual recourse for the
situation.
>> Second, the headlights won't fall down, and
third
>> the windows won't go up/down. And, if it helps
>>
any, the locks do work, as do the lights
>>
themselves.
>
>If the car was sunk in water, like it sounds it was,
then it isn't beyond
>reason that the motors for the headlights are
toast.
It's highly possible. But, the car wasn't necessarily 'sunk'
in water I dont
think. I envision it possible the nose went down into a
watery ditch or an
area something similar to that. Though there is no real
definitive evidence
for even that.
>> For the reason i
stated previously i disconnected
>> the batt. overnight. Each time i
reconnect or
>> simply open the door the alarm goes off - but
the
>> only thing happening is that the driving lights
>>
blink on and off, and the alarm remote has no effect
>> whatsover
(turning the key on/off twice stops it).
>> I was rather of the
thinking that it could have
>> been related to water damage of some
variety as
>> one possible culprit.
>
>Most likely water
damage to the alarm. Is this an aftermarket alarm system
>or a
factory one? Sounds like aftermarket. Tear the damn thing out
and
>forget about it.
Its a viper alarm. Ive already torn out
the volume control, but havent
located where the rest of the gizmo has setup
its occupancy.
>> Also there is an on/off toggle switch beneath
the
>> dash on the far left side with a yellow indicator
>>
light which does nothing either apparently.
>
>Sounds like an
aftermarket alarm valet switch.
Yes, it turns out that it was
that.
>> At any rate, all the fuses look good (replaced
>>
one ignition fuse), andhavent tested the relays
>> and what not. I hope
this goes very far in the
>> way of helping to clarify further on this
little
>> scenario. Thanks for any attention to the
matter!
>
>Test the relays for the affected systems. If water
finds its way into a
>relay it doesn't take long to corrode the contacts
and make the relay
>useless. If you don't have a service manual, get
one. In a water-soaked
>car you are going to need it even more than
the rest of us.
I suppose you are right here. And what's the best way
to test these relays,
open the circuit
without them in
place?
>Hope you didn't pay much more than $1000 for this car...
There are so many
>electrical systems in these cars that you are going to
likely have
>electrical trouble with it until the day it goes to the
scrapyard.
Really, i wouldnt see it possible to find a car in this
shape for under the
low price I
already paid of $2500, not to mention
$1,000 or less. Everything is great
except for the windows, headlights, and
whatever is behind the ignition
release that went awry. Even in the worst of
cases that i have to replace
the headlight and window motors and perhaps
something else as costly or
more, i think the junkyard will prove one true
saving grace atleast, and as
for anything else, i am prepared to confront it
too. But I understand -
these electrical systems are no joyride in the park,
as say compared to my
70
mustang.
thanks,
john
_________________________________________________________
Do
You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at
http://mail.yahoo.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:40:09
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Eiback Spring Rates
At 08:22 PM 11/6/00 -0500, Trent
wrote:
>For those interested, I was informed by Eibach tech service that
the one and
>only spring kit offered for our cars uses progressive wound
springs with an
>initial rate of 228 lbs. to a final rate of 428 lbs. for
the front with an
>initial rate of 154 lbs. and a final rate of 228 lbs.
for the rear.
Gee. How did I get 550 fronts and 315 rears,
then?
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:19:46
-0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Eiback Spring Rates
Eibach makes a whole pile of springs for various
people to various
specifications. Whether a given spring is designated
for a VR4 or not may
not be known by Eibach, and in fact likely is not.
I have no doubt that the
only "Eibach" spring is as stated. This is the
commodity spring available
from Eibach off-the-shelf.
The Ground
Control kits use Eibach springs and come in any rate desired.
You specify the
spring rate at order placement and get what you want, just
maybe not *when*
you want it depending upon the production run Eibach is
doing at the time, GC
stock and the phases of Jupiter's moons.
I've got the same GC setup as
Rich complete with Eibach springs 'cept I
think mine are a bit lighter on the
ass end and come in spec'ed at 300 lbs.
Barry
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Merritt
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 6:40 PM
> To:
Trent; Team 3S
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Eiback Spring
Rates
>
>
> At 08:22 PM 11/6/00 -0500, Trent wrote:
>
>For those interested, I was informed by Eibach tech service that
> the
one and
> >only spring kit offered for our cars uses progressive
wound
> springs with an
> >initial rate of 228 lbs. to a final
rate of 428 lbs. for the
> front with an
> >initial rate of 154
lbs. and a final rate of 228 lbs. for the rear.
>
> Gee. How did I
get 550 fronts and 315 rears, then?
>
>
Rich
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:26:42
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Eiback Spring Rates
Probably because yours aren't progressively
wound.
Jim
Berry
===============================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
At 08:22 PM 11/6/00 -0500, Trent wrote:
> >For those interested, I was
informed by Eibach tech service that the one and
> >only spring kit
offered for our cars uses progressive wound springs with an
> >initial
rate of 228 lbs. to a final rate of 428 lbs. for the front with an
>
>initial rate of 154 lbs. and a final rate of 228 lbs. for the rear.
>
> Gee. How did I get 550 fronts and 315 rears, then?
>
> Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 09:23:29
CST
From: "Curt Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Eiback Spring Rates
Hey Dave,
I'm glad the coupon
helped. As mentioned in other posts, the ground control
set up has
many different spring rates for the Eibach springs included. But
your
information about the Eibach kit that is sold for our cars is helpful.
If
anyone else is looking for 33% off there next CarParts purchase. Go
to:
http://www.mn3s.org/car-parts.htmllater,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org>From: "Trent"
<
bdtrent@netzero.net>
>To:
"Team 3S" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Subject:
Team3S: Eiback Spring Rates
>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:22:29
-0500
>
>For those interested, I was informed by Eibach tech service
that the one
>and
>only spring kit offered for our cars uses
progressive wound springs with an
>initial rate of 228 lbs. to a final
rate of 428 lbs. for the front with an
>initial rate of 154 lbs. and a
final rate of 228 lbs. for the rear. This
>is
>the 1.3in.
drop Pro-Kit that most of the vendors offer. (part# 2811.140).
>With the
help of Curt Gendrons magic coupon numbers I ordered these with
>the
>Goodrich break line kit for $425.00 from
CarParts.
>
>Regards,
>DaveT/92TT
>Track Time
Freshman
_________________________________________________________________________
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***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#317
*********************