team3s            Friday, October 27 2000            Volume 01 : Number 308




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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:18:21 GMT
From: "marc augellli" <marcsaugelli@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Front Fender Question?

Hi Everyone,

I was hoping someone might be able to help me.  Last week someone put a
dent into my fender, it looks like it was from a suv door.  I didn’t want to
go though the insurance company, because deductible is 500.00.  I have a new
fender painted and everything for 200.00 dollars and I was wondering if
anybody knew how to put it on.  I’ve tried and got fed up.  I remove the
bolts 5 or 6 from the side under the hood.  Then there was 1 bolt that can
be seen when you open the door.  I remove the lower molding by the door and
the wheel wells.  Then I remove the turn signal light and head light
assembly and remove the 2 bolts that were connected to the fender and
bumper.  I can’t get the fender off.  It’s loose but I can’t seem to find
the other bolt or clip that holds it in.  Does anybody know how to take the
fender off and replace it or can email me the diagram to see what I’m
missing.  It’s for a 94 SL and it’s for the passenger fender.  Thanks for
any information and helping me out.
Marc Augelli

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:04:01 -0600
From: "Jon Bach" <bach@boostinside.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Post I sent to the DSM digest, applies to 3/S as well.

We made one of those intake leak testers for my car. As you're right about
the valve setup on the DSM vs the 3kGT , it is still a great way to find
intake leaks. We just run an air compressor through it, leave it on for a
few seconds, then take a piece of hose to use as a stethoscope and listen
around pipes, connections, etc and find if it's leaking. We don't know how
much (psi-wise) it leaks, but judging by how much noise is coming out of the
connection we can make an estimate how significant the leak is and how much
it's killing performance. I experienced the same thing when I fixed my big
leak (throttle body area), my boost spiked to 20psi then falling to 18 when
it was only spiking to 16 then falling to 14 before.

Jon Bach
'91 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
Albuquerque, New Mexico


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:04:15 EDT
From: NassiriC@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Question - Pre-cats, Turbos, and braces

This is my first post to this list, and after reading through a lot of the
archives I must say it is quite an honor to be included on a list with such
knowledgeable people.  That being said, I have a few questions I've had a
hard time getting precise answers to, I'd really appreciate any help I can
get.

Here's some background first: I have a '97 VR-4 that I'm building up to be a
450+ hp street machine.  I will be doing some light racing (road and drag),
but I will not be abusing it, my main goal is to build a reliable ultra high
performance street car that will be driven on a semi-daily basis.

1.  Pre-cats - If I remove/gut my pre-cats will I pass the tail pipe sniffer
smog test in California?  I realize the main function of a pre-cat is to
'light-off' earlier then the main cat, hence eliminating cold start
emissions, but do the pre-cats on a 3S also function to eliminate emissions
when the main cat has already reached operating temperature?  If I make sure
my car has completely warmed up just before I go for the test will I pass? 
If not, how hard is it to remove/replace the front and rear pre-cat?  I ask
this because I realize that these cats are the real bottle neck in the system
- - no matter how great my dp or cat-back system is, I can't see that it will
do any good if the pre-cats are still in place.  Does anyone from California
have direct experience with this?

2.  Intercoolers - how effective are the stock intercoolers?  Does anyone
have pre and post intercooler air temperature readings for the stock units? 
If I'm running stock 9g turbos w/max boost of 14.5 psi will I get a
significant reduction in air temp if I go to an aftermarket intercooler like
those from Alamo or HKS?  Also, all things being equal (keeping max boost at
14.5 psi - this is a street machine running on pump gas), if I switch to 15g
turbos and aftermarket intercoolers will I see a significant increase in hp? 
Does anyone have real world experience with this?  I've read a lot about
theoretical power gains achieved through higher air flow volumes, or high psi
applications on race fuel, but nothing that is practical for the street on
pump gas.

3.  I'm thinking of designing and fabricating a front strut tower brace (I'm
getting an after market hood, so I'll have clearance), has anybody already
tried to do this?  Are there any existing designs/parts out there for a front
brace?  My goal is to design a piece that could be fabricated by any machine
shop using standard metal stock for under $100.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Cyrus Nassiri
Glacier Pearl White '97 VR-4 


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:32:55 -0500
From: "Trevor L. James" <trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question - Pre-cats, Turbos, and braces

NassiriC@aol.com wrote:

> This is my first post to this list, and after reading through a lot of the
> archives I must say it is quite an honor to be included on a list with such
> knowledgeable people.  That being said, I have a few questions I've had a
> hard time getting precise answers to, I'd really appreciate any help I can
> get.
>
> Here's some background first: I have a '97 VR-4 that I'm building up to be a
> 450+ hp street machine.  I will be doing some light racing (road and drag),
> but I will not be abusing it, my main goal is to build a reliable ultra high
> performance street car that will be driven on a semi-daily basis.

You'd probably be better off shooting for 425-435HP on pump gas without water
injection. I don't think anyone's made more than that.

> 1.  Pre-cats - If I remove/gut my pre-cats will I pass the tail pipe sniffer
> smog test in California?  I realize the main function of a pre-cat is to
> 'light-off' earlier then the main cat, hence eliminating cold start
> emissions, but do the pre-cats on a 3S also function to eliminate emissions
> when the main cat has already reached operating temperature?  If I make sure
> my car has completely warmed up just before I go for the test will I pass?
> If not, how hard is it to remove/replace the front and rear pre-cat?  I ask
> this because I realize that these cats are the real bottle neck in the system
> - no matter how great my dp or cat-back system is, I can't see that it will
> do any good if the pre-cats are still in place.  Does anyone from California
> have direct experience with this?

I've never personally been "sniffed" without my cats but I've read numerous times
of people with only a high flow main cat (random technologies) that were able to
pass no problem. Like you said just make sure you get the cat as hot as possible
before you go in for the test.

> 2.  Intercoolers - how effective are the stock intercoolers?  Does anyone
> have pre and post intercooler air temperature readings for the stock units?
> If I'm running stock 9g turbos w/max boost of 14.5 psi will I get a
> significant reduction in air temp if I go to an aftermarket intercooler like
> those from Alamo or HKS?  Also, all things being equal (keeping max boost at
> 14.5 psi - this is a street machine running on pump gas), if I switch to 15g
> turbos and aftermarket intercoolers will I see a significant increase in hp?
> Does anyone have real world experience with this?  I've read a lot about
> theoretical power gains achieved through higher air flow volumes, or high psi
> applications on race fuel, but nothing that is practical for the street on
> pump gas.

I haven't heard of any really world quarter mile gains from replacing the stock
intercoolers. I'm sure if you actually road race or do top speed runs then an
upgraded IC will do noting but good but for short 13 second WOT bursts the
stockers do just fine. Before my 15G/550cc/ARC2-GP/HKS fuel pump install I had
roughly 399HP on 91 octane without water injection. After the new turbos and fuel
system HP increased to about 417. No a whole lot for of HP for $5100 (includes
turbo installation). Ended up needing a clutch after that too. If I knew I would
never run race gas I would have to think long and hard about blowing all that
$$$$ on 18HP. There's alot of horsepower hidden in there, I just need some race
gas to unleash it! Also if you're shooting for max HP on pump gas get a
underdrive pulley, it's free power. I'm getting one installed on my car as we
speak. I'm also getting forged pistons at .039" overbore which should make for
about 435HP on 91 octane.

> Thanks in advance for your help.
> Cyrus Nassiri
> Glacier Pearl White '97 VR-4
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

Glad I could help!

Trevor James
96 Stealth R/T TT
12.65@107.9 Stock Turbos & Fueling on 91 Octane
Lotsa new mods but it's in the shop AGAIN!
92 GMC Typhoon
13.96@96.4


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:42:42 -0500
From: "Trevor L. James" <trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: - Pre-cats, Turbos(ATT:TREVOR)

TTurboAWD@aol.com wrote:

> ***********Trevor,
>               That's all the extra HP you got with injectors and
>            turbos on pump gas? Is this typical? I have been
>            thinking of doing similar mods and I never run race
>            fuel. I would rather run the way it is on the street. I
>            have had several tuners quote 370 to 400 hp at the
>            wheels on 93 octane with your mods. Any input
>            would be greatly appreciated.
>                                     Wayne 3SI #87
>                                '95 Pearl Yellow VR4

Hope you don't mind but I'm going to send this to the tech list to clarify the
details of my max HP on pump gas deductions. I can't really say that's typical but
I don't know how I could get more power on pump gas without water/alcohol
injection. I was running 14.5psi with .94-.96V O2's and EGT's were hitting
1600-1620F (871-882C). Even at that level I was getting some knock retard and
ended up taking the top off of two stock pistons after three weeks of hard driving
(hence the forged piston upgrade). I never made it to the track before I trashed
the pistons but according to the improvements with the Gtech I should have been
running 12.44@109.7 or so at a real track. I ran a 12.65@107.9 before the turbo
and fuel upgrade. My fuel quality is a little lower than the rest of the states
though so that could be part of the problem. We can only get  91 octane here in
Wichita, KS at 1,330' altitude. This is what's usually availiable:
0-1000':93-94 Octane
1000'-2000':92-93 Octane
2000'-3000':91-92 Octane
3000'+:91 Octane

Trevor


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:49:30 -0400
From: "Kevin" <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject: Team3S: Pressure testing pics up for Jeff and others.

http://www.pacarsearch.com/stealth/pressure.htm

Kevin Schappell
 
Learn more about your car
http://www.AutoEducation.com

Online Mobile Audio SuperStore
http://mobilesounds.vstorecar.com

3SI members.... you have to see this page
http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead/mitsu2.htm
http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead
- ------------Still under construction---------------


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 02:16:54 -0700
From: "noble" <nketo@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Team3S: Team 3S:Off topic : Manufacturer opinion for 15C's

Hi everyone,

I just about to send out my turbos to Thomas Knight turbos for
rebuilding to 15C status (comparible airflows to 15G).
Does anyone have opinions on his work?
Any replies would be greatly appreciated.

Please respond privately,

Sincerely,
Noble



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 05:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Christian <jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 275/40R17 on stock rims?

Hi Jeff,

Guess they only work on my stock  '93 Stealth TT rims.
 I only used them for Autocross in the parking lot and
the SCCA meets at the Connelsville airport. 
They only rubbed on the inner front plastic.
I ran the Yok's 275x40x17  008RSII

Be of good cheer,
John

- --- Jeff <spydervr4@home.com> wrote:
> Okay, I went ahead and got 2 of the 275 width tires
> mounted on my stock rims
> and after seeing it, there's NO WAY I would use them
> for lapping.  They
> bulge WAY too much.  A friend of mine is going to
> borrow them for use at the
> drag strip on his Supra, which I think will be fine,
> but any sort of
> cornering is out of the question.
>
> jeff
> '95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
> '90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Dorsey" <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
> To: "'Team3S'" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:28 PM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: 275/40R17 on stock rims?
>
>
> ***  Info:
> http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***


=====
Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
'93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH  5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538

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***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 05:45:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Christian <jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stealth wheel & brake question...

Hi George,

Sorry, same answer.  NO.

Be of good cheer,
John

- --- George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Now, I know the 1st gen VR4 wheels will not fit with
> '94+ bigger rotors..
>
> What about the 1st gen Stealth TT wheels?? Anyone
> know??
>
> (Want to buy a spare set of rims for racing...)
>
> Thanks,
> George
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
> http://im.yahoo.com/
>
> ***  Info:
> http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***


=====
Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
'93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH  5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:44:07 -0500
From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 275/40R17 on stock rims?

I wonder if maybe the early 17" rims are wider than the later ones?  I
recall on my 1st 3000GT, I had 275/40R17 Goodyears on it that came with the
car ('93 VR-4) and I don't remember them bulging much, but I wasn't really
all that into cars back then.  Do you know how wide your rims are?

jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "John Christian" <jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
To: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>; "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: 275/40R17 on stock rims?


> Hi Jeff,
>
> Guess they only work on my stock  '93 Stealth TT rims.
>  I only used them for Autocross in the parking lot and
> the SCCA meets at the Connelsville airport.
> They only rubbed on the inner front plastic.
> I ran the Yok's 275x40x17  008RSII
>
> Be of good cheer,
> John
>
> --- Jeff <spydervr4@home.com> wrote:
> > Okay, I went ahead and got 2 of the 275 width tires
> > mounted on my stock rims
> > and after seeing it, there's NO WAY I would use them
> > for lapping.  They
> > bulge WAY too much.  A friend of mine is going to
> > borrow them for use at the
> > drag strip on his Supra, which I think will be fine,
> > but any sort of
> > cornering is out of the question.
> >
> > jeff
> > '95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
> > '90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Dorsey" <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
> > To: "'Team3S'" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:28 PM
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: 275/40R17 on stock rims?
> >
> >
> > ***  Info:
> > http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***
>
>
> =====
> Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
> '93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
> 12.4@109MPH  5/97 almost stock
> http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
> http://im.yahoo.com/
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:11:08 -0700
From: "Jose Soriano" <Amahoser@linkline.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stealth wheel & brake question...

Hey George,

I have a set of 1st gen Stealth wheels, you are welcome to try them out. I
doubt they will fit your car though....

Hoser

> Hi All,
>
> Now, I know the 1st gen VR4 wheels will not fit with
> '94+ bigger rotors..
>
> What about the 1st gen Stealth TT wheels?? Anyone
> know??
>
> (Want to buy a spare set of rims for racing...)
>
> Thanks,
> George
>



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:03:02 -0600
From: "Ricardo Cousar" <rcousar@datawest.net>
Subject: Team3S: Alternator removal help

I am having a terrible time removing my alternator from my car.  This is
where I  am at I can remove the top half of the alternator but I cannot even
see the bolts for the lower half. Please help I want to swap it out before
the weather gets bad.


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:09:11 EDT
From: "Michael D. Crose" <ncsu4me@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Timing belt tensioning wrench and end yoke holder

Hi,

This is way in advance but I was wondering if there is anyone in the
Raleigh-Durham area that would let me borrow either one of these items
toward the end of December when I will be doing my 60k service?

Thanks,
Michael
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:08:33 EST
From: "Rick H." <tt_3kgt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Fluids - Redline?

List,

  I am looking to flush out my diff, tranny, and gearbox this month with a
aftermarket fluid. In the past, in previous vehicals, I have used Royal
Purple synthetic or Redline. I am not familiar with these cars and would
like to get an opinion from everyone on past experience, etc. Thanks for all
the info!

  Is there a FAQ or instruction for flushing fluids from these pieces?

Rick
93 3KGT VR4
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End of team3s V1 #308
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