team3s
Friday, September 29
2000 Volume 01 :
Number
278
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Sep 2000 04:52:12 -0700
From: "Jose Soriano" <
Amahoser@linkline.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Shredding Kumhos
> My problem is that when I really push
my Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 (AWD twin
> turbo), it reverts from neutral
handling to power understeer
That is common on our cars. You have adjustable
suspension right? Have your
car corner weighted This is always the first step
when setting up your
chassis. Stiffen up the rear shocks or purchase a
stiffer rear sway bar.Or
purchase stiffer rear springs (I think Ground
Control charges 60 bucks for
them). You need to find a setup that "balances"
your car. Easiest one would
be stiffening up the rear shocks... if you
have adjustable shocks. If not,
purchase a stiffer rear bar. This is much
more advantagous than purchasing
stiffer shocks. Sway bars are springs that
only work in the corners. If you
buy stiffer springs, it increases overall
stiffness. Sway bars only work
when one side is loaded more than the other
(cornering). Springs will do the
same thing but sacrifice ride quality. If
only they made ADJUSTABLE sway
bars for our cars......
>
> 1.
Change tire pressure? I run 44 psi cold in the fronts. Same as the
>
Yokos, which loved it.
Each different tire requires different tire pressure
and camber settings.
Once you change to a different tire type, it is not
uncommon for them to
behave badly under the settings optimized for the other
brand tire,
especially at the track. Check with the tire manufacturer for
recommended
race camber and pressure settings for a general baseline. Get a
tire
pyrometer to check inflation and camber settings. 44 cold seems awfully
high
for track use. A pyrometer will tell you right away.... just make sure
that
the last lap before you pull into the pits is "hot" enough that your
tires
don't cool down too much. Have the pyrometer handy so you can check
the
temps IMMEDIATLEY after you stop.
> 3. Go back to the tougher,
longer lasting Yokos on the front? Can I run
> Yokos front and Kumhos
rear?
That would probably make the understeer worse! The Yoko's you ran
are
street tires, not dot approved race radials right? The won't grip as well
as
the kuhmo's so your understeer problem will get worse. I wouldn't
suggest
mixing tire types.... too many variables.... but if you wanna try it,
I'd
put the kuhmo's on the front with the Yoko's on the rear.... I'd bet
that
you had better track times with the Kuhmo's even though you felt
the
understeer more. You have more grip now overall.
I'm not an
expert on suspension setup, but this is what I do when I
experience handling
issues at the track.
>
> All suggestions welcome.
Hope
this helps...
Jose Soriano
vist my Stealth site
www.3si.org/amahoser***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:54:04
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Are they lying?
Chris,
Ken is correct about finding
cheaper parts. I have these discount
dealers listed on the Garage and Links
pages at my web site.
Now it is entirely possible that the parts you
mention below were
bad, but my guess as to why you need new suspension parts
is that
these guys screwed up disconnecting the tie rod end and lower
ball
joint. The manual states that this needs to be done to remove
the
trany (to get to the clutch). However, it really does not.
The
write-up at my web site by Ken Wheeler and myself, using advice
from
MoparJim, shows how to disconnect the driveshafts from the
trany
without disconnecting the tie-rod ends or ball joints.
It is
too late for you, but hopefully others can take advantage of
MoparJim's
advice that Ken and I included in our web page.
http://www.3si.org/member-home/blucius/b-2-trany.htmJeff
Lucius, 3SI #476
-->
http://www.stealth316.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Ken Middaugh" <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
To:
<
The68th@aol.com>
Cc: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, September 27, 2000 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Are they
lying?
Of course their parts quotes are "top dollar". You need to
buy parts
from one of the list's discount dealers such as Norco,
Tallahassee,
or Conicelli Mitsubishi. I'll forward the list to
you. If you are
at a Mitsu dealer, have them match the above dealer's
prices. If you
are at shop, have them quote you labor only and you
provide the
parts.
The lower control arm should cost about $210 each,
and yes the ball
joints aren't technically available seperately. The
stabilzer links
are about $35 a pair. The clutch slave cylinder is
about $40
although a rebuild kit is only $7 and is usually adequate.
Water
pump should be about $79 and should be done at the 60K or
120K
service to save in labor costs.
> i just brought my car in the
have the clutch done. They called me
> and told me I needed a new
slave cylinder, and I believe that. But
> then they told me that the
ball and socket joint or something in my
> left front side was loose. This
can not be replaced in this kind of
> car and they must replace the whole
lower control arm which costs
> 518.73, plus 95.59 in labor. Then,
since this was loose they also
> must replace 2 stabilization links which
are 79.86 a pair plus
> 37.16 in labor. Then they suggest that my
water pump is going
> out. Is this all right? Is there any way
to get some of these
> parts down? Or are they just trying to get
more business?
Could you drive any better if I shoved that cell phone up
your a**?!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San
Diego
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:59:56
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Shredding Kumhos
Re: My problem in shredding the front
tires
Tire Rack's recommendation is to buy two more Kumhos, rotate the
tires
constantly to equalize wear, then replace all four when the set wears
out.
They agree with everybody that I should not mix Yokos and Kumhos.
The lesson here seems to be that Kumhos do not work with big heavy
cars
like a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4.
Looks like I am going back to Yoko
032R tires next season. They seem to be
the only tire tough enough to stand
up to my tire shredder.
I just hope these ^&^%$% new Kumho
tires make it through the next session
at Road America.
Rich/94
Mitsubishi 3000GT
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:41:08
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Shredding Kumhos
Ive tried to tell you..
Space OUT THE
FRONT OF THE CAR..Mitsubishi has serious built-in
understeer.
I ate
the crap out of tires like that until I corrected it.
On Wed, 27 Sep
2000, Merritt wrote:
> We went out to play at Marshalltown Speedway
this afternoon, and I shredded
> two Kumho tires. This means that my brand
new set of Kumhos got through one
> weekend at Heartland Park and about 50
laps at Marshalltown. One front tire
> is down to the cord, and one front
tire is cupped. (The only good news is
> that I finally got that 97
Porsche TT AWD! )
>
> My problem is that when I really push my
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 (AWD twin
> turbo), it reverts from neutral handling
to power understeer, putting all
> the weight on the outside front, so
that tire takes terrible abuse from
> cornering forces plus the wheel
grabbing for traction.
>
> Until one event ago, I ran Yokohama
032R tires. They lasted a long time,
> and held up pretty well against the
power understeer problem.
>
> So, what do you folks think I should
do about it? I have an event at Road
> America next weekend, so I gotta
order two replacement tires tomorrow.
>
> 1. Change tire pressure?
I run 44 psi cold in the fronts. Same as the
> Yokos, which loved
it.
> 2. More negative camber? I am running 1.1 deg negative now, but can
go up
> to 5 deg neg with my camber plates. Gotta drive it 300 miles to
the track,
> though.
> 3. Go back to the tougher, longer lasting
Yokos on the front? Can I run
> Yokos front and Kumhos rear?
>
> All suggestions welcome.
>
> Rich/94 VR4
>
Ground Control adjustable suspension w/Eibach springs. Car is lowered as
>
much as feasible.
> Camber plates. Settings are max castor, 0.15 deg
positive toe, 1.1 deg neg
> camber front, 1.25 deg neg camber
rear.
> Porterfield cyrogenically treated rotors, Porsche TT Big Red
calipers, Hawk
> Blue pads, SS lines, ducts, water injection.
>
Kumho race tires.
> Stock motor
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
|
The proven method to make a Supra race worthy, is to
|
| strip it down, and shove as many $20 bills as possible
|
| within
the cavity of the car
itself. |
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:54:20
-0500
From: "Walton C. Gibson" <
kalla@tripoint.org>
Subject: Team3S:
flywheel machining specs?
For my transmission and new clutch install I
need to get my
flywheel machined. I have never done this before, and I
understand
that it needs to be a "two step" process. What specifications and
dimensions should I give my machine shop? This is a stock VR-4
flywheel.
Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:02:33
-0600
From: "Ken Wheeler" <
kenwheeler@phoenixdsl.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: flywheel machining specs?
You need to make sure that they
understand what a 2 step process is.
Basically, you machine the surface that
rides against the clutch. Since you
now have taken off so much
material, you now have to machine the surface
that the pressure plate bolts
to in order to make up the difference from the
metal that you took off in the
1st machining process. Thus the term
"2-step". You can read more
about it on Jeff's webpage at:
http://www.3si.org/member-home/blucius/b-2-trany.htmKen
Wheeler
'92 RT/TT
'67 Mustang
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Walton C. Gibson" <
kalla@tripoint.org>
To: <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, September 28, 2000 11:54 AM
Subject: Team3S: flywheel machining
specs?
> For my transmission and new clutch install I need to get
my
> flywheel machined. I have never done this before, and I
understand
> that it needs to be a "two step" process. What specifications
and
> dimensions should I give my machine shop? This is a stock
VR-4
> flywheel.
>
> Walton C. Gibson
>
kalla@tripoint.org>
>
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:10:06
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: Shredding Kumhos
> 1. Remove the following: hood,
front r/l quarter panels, a/c, polyurethane
> nose assembly - I figure
you'll loose about 350 lbs off the front - I've
> actually thought about
doing this.
- ---
Makes for horrible drag..not to mention performance
and mostly illegal for
course racing. *and ugly*
> 2.
Half-way through braking hard for a turn, lift your foot, and grab the
>
hand-brake, that should bring the back end around and induce some
oversteer.
- ---
Stupid..and dangerous. A driver has better
things to do than work the
Ebrake at 120Mph..would be a very very ugly sight
to see what could happen
there (if the Ebrake worked at all after two uses at
120mph)
> 2. This sounds stupid, but I tried it and it
works: DRIVE SLOWER - I enter
> the turn slower, and make up for
lost time powering out with that cool AWD.
> Your time will decrease (or
at least stay the same) and you won't shred
> rubber.
-
---
Actually, once I "fixed" the engineering mistakes Mitsubishi built in,
I
was carrying about 15mph extra into turn-1 at Thunderhill here
in
California.
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
|
The proven method to make a Supra race worthy, is to
|
| strip it down, and shove as many $20 bills as possible
|
| within
the cavity of the car
itself. |
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:36:17
-0500
From: "Trevor L. James" <
trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Need a rear precat....
Well the shops got my car in pieces putting new
pistons in and the rear
precat/O2 sensor bung got screwed up. They claim they
can't just replace the O2
sensor nut/bung. Anyone out there have a rear
precat to sell. Doesn't matter if
it's gutted or not. Just for your info
retail is $446.51 but I can get a new one
for $357.21 from Norco
Mits.
Thanks Alot!
Trevor
96 R/T TT
92 GMC
Typhoon
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:10:23
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Exhaust
> scene - I have a '93 Stealth ES and I would like
to put the Borla exhaust
> system on. Problem 1) I currently only have one
muffler port on my back
> bumper so I would have to purchase the TT bumper
for that year right?
Probably yes.
> Problem 2) You might think
this is stupid but I don't understand what you
> guys are talking about
when you say 'cats' & 'pre-cats'
Your car has no
pre-cats.
> when I buy the exhaust system from Borla I will receive
the pipe from the
> Catalytic converter back - Two mufflers - and Two
tips..Am I right in
> assuming that?
Yes, this is called a cat-back
system.
> Also what type of catalytic converter do I buy and what
pipes
> do I buy that go from the engine block to the
converter??
There are no downpipes for the NA (better said, I haven't
seen one yet)
> increase horse power by doing all of this?? I'm
confused..... So I guess
the
> absolute final question would be if you
had my car....What would you do??
No, just sound. Maybe a few horses in
the top but probably less in the low
end.
> TT) Has anyone done
this themselves and was it a somewhat easy thing to do
> with the proper
tool that you have to buy. I have had both valve covers
off
> so
I do know what is involved with that, but I have not done anything yet
>
with the lifters.
I removed the cams so the job was
easy.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:21:14
-0400
From: "Dan Mecier" <
dmecier@ka.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need
a rear precat....
Wow! $357! I just had a new bung welded on mine (about
$10). Find someone
who knows what they're doing.
Dan
94 3000GT
VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Trevor L. James
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 6:36 PM
To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Need a rear precat....
Well the shops got my car in pieces
putting new pistons in and the rear
precat/O2 sensor bung got screwed up.
They claim they can't just replace the
O2
sensor nut/bung. Anyone out
there have a rear precat to sell. Doesn't matter
if
it's gutted or not.
Just for your info retail is $446.51 but I can get a new
one
for $357.21
from Norco Mits.
Thanks Alot!
Trevor
96 R/T TT
92 GMC
Typhoon
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:04:21
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Finally fixed the no-start..
Apparently there is something in the
upper-dash wiring harness that just
has to be connected in order for the Fuel
Pump Relay to click in..and
therefore allow the car to start.
I could
have found this out a month+ ago, but didnt feel like it when it
was 100d
outside.
Took 2 minutes to extricate the wiring from the dash
itself..plugged in
four main feeds..fired right up.
Car now heads
to BRE Racing for interior, wiring, motor, UGLY amounts of
boost/fuel mods
and 8pt cage on Wednesday next week.
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
|
The proven method to make a Supra race worthy, is to
|
| strip it down, and shove as many $20 bills as possible
|
| within
the cavity of the car
itself. |
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:41:44
-0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Need a rear precat....
Isn't that reassuring to hear.
Especially when your car is in hundreds of
pieces :)
Seriously, I have
a tap that has cleaned up 99% of the "messed up" o2 bungs
out there.
You should be able to just clean the threads with a good
tap.
Brad
Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Dan Mecier
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 10:21 PM
To:
Trevor L. James;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Need a rear precat....
Wow! $357! I just had a new bung
welded on mine (about $10). Find someone
who knows what they're
doing.
Dan
94 3000GT VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Trevor L. James
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 6:36 PM
To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Need a rear precat....
Well the shops got my car in pieces
putting new pistons in and the rear
precat/O2 sensor bung got screwed up.
They claim they can't just replace the
O2
sensor nut/bung. Anyone out
there have a rear precat to sell. Doesn't matter
if
it's gutted or not.
Just for your info retail is $446.51 but I can get a new
one
for $357.21
from Norco Mits.
Thanks Alot!
Trevor
96 R/T TT
92 GMC
Typhoon
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 07:28:14
-0500
From: "Trevor L. James" <
trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Need a rear precat....
Pretty dumb huh. I asked the guy 4 times
why it couldn't be repaired and he
really didn't know except "the tech
stripped out the O2 sensor bung and he says
it can't be fixed." He finally
told me to come down today and check it out and
see if I can't figure out a
way to fix it. Sounds to me like he damaged more
than just the bung since
these guys know I'm pretty knowledgeable about my car.
I know I can order
just the bung from Mitsu for $10-14...If there's more damage
I found that
M&S recycling has the rear pre-cat for $125.
Trev
Dan Mecier
wrote:
> Wow! $357! I just had a new bung welded on mine (about $10).
Find someone
> who knows what they're doing.
>
> Dan
>
94 3000GT VR-4
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Trevor L. James
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 6:36
PM
> To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Need a rear precat....
>
> Well the shops got my
car in pieces putting new pistons in and the rear
> precat/O2 sensor bung
got screwed up. They claim they can't just replace the
> O2
> sensor
nut/bung. Anyone out there have a rear precat to sell. Doesn't matter
>
if
> it's gutted or not. Just for your info retail is $446.51 but I can
get a new
> one
> for $357.21 from Norco Mits.
>
>
Thanks Alot!
>
> Trevor
> 96 R/T TT
> 92 GMC
Typhoon
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#278
*********************