team3s
Monday, September 25
2000 Volume 01 :
Number
275
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 25 Sep 2000 05:51:46 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Formula 1 Report -- Very Long
I just got back from the F1 race in
Indianapolis. It was a walk on the wild
side.
First, let me say that I
am no one important. A very good friend was kind
enough to invite me
along as a guest of Siemens, who is a "technology
partner" (sponsor) on the
West McLaren team. Because of this, I got to
experience F1 from the
inside.
I felt the same as I do when we are at Road America -- I expect a
janitor
to step out of a building and yell, "Hey! What are you guys doing
here?"
Here, I expected someone from F1 to say: "Excuse me sir, but you are
not
worthy enough."
If you watched the race, you undoubtedly saw the
new F1 garages behind the
pits. Atop the garages are the hospitality
suites. West McLaren had leased
almost the entire top section to host
at least five separate suites for its
sponsors, including Mobil 1, Sun
computer, Computer Associates, Siemens and
SAP. I was in there, amongst the
movers and shakers and VIP guests. Siemens
brought 135 such guests from all
over the world. In all, West McLaren
entertained about 900 people for the
weekend.
You've seen shots of people milling around the hot pits before
a race, I'm
sure. That's called the "Pit Walkabout" and the only people
permitted there
are guests of the teams. You cannot buy a pit pass at the
track. So those
thousands of people you see -- from the leggy blonde bimbo
babes to the
corporate VIPs are all guests of somebody's team or
sponsor.
Running a top F1 team costs $200 million per year. Both Ferarri
and West
McLaren have this kind of money to spend, while other teams
spend
considerably less -- as you can tell by their relative performance
compared
to the two top teams.
West McLaren has 26 sponsors, ranging
from the biggies such as West
(European cigarettes), Hugo Boss
(clothing and cosmetics), Mobil 1 and
SAP, to the smaller sponsors, such as
Siemens. If you are a West McLaren
fan, you are probably scratching your
head, saying "Siemens? I don't
remember seeing a Siemens logo on the car."
The amount of money you put
into the program determines if you get a logo on
the car, and where it
goes. Siemens has a tiny Siemens Fujitsu logo on the
edge of the right
front wing, and a logo on Mika Hakkinen's uniform. This is
because they
probably only put a mere $15-25 million into the program (just a
guess,
mind you), which isn't enough for an on-car logo.
F1 is high
technology gone berserk. Watch carefully next time you see them
start an F1
engine. It takes two Siemens Fujitsu laptop computers -- one
for the engine
and one for the chassis -- to start them up. That's why you
never see an F1
car push-started, and why the driver simply abandons it if
the car stalls on
the track. It can't be restarted without being taken back
to the pits and
hooked up to the computers.
Each car has a data acquisition system that
senses about 200 variables,
encompassing just about everything you can
imagine, from cylinder
temperatures to exhaust composition to sideslip
acceleration. This data is
transmitted from the cars to transponders located
at intervals all the way
around a circuit, back to the Sun computers in the
pits. West McClaren goes
one step farther than most: Using Siemens
communications equipment (another
plug for my Siemens friends), they transmit
the real-time data via
satellite back to McLaren headquarters in England,
where 100 engineers
monitor every variable in real time. If they spot an
anomaly, they can
communicate directly with the crew chief over the
satellite.
In F1, cars are new every year. Last year's cars go to the
museums, and
every team starts over from scratch. The cars are designed,
modeled and
simulated in CAD systems, and then every one of the 10,000+ parts
has to be
made by hand. Some work gets contracted out to specialty race
fabricators
in and around Woking, England, but McClaren has complete machine
tool and
fabrication facilities of its own. McClaren builds almost 100% of
the
parts, with the exception of the engines, which come from
Mercedes/Ilmore
(originally Roger Penske's Chevy small block
motors).
The technology involved represents the state of the art in every
aspect:
materials science (carbon fiber), on-board computers and electronics,
CAD
design, computer modeling and simulation, wind tunnel
testing,
communications and so on.
Throughout the race weekend, we
were treated to live presentations by a
teddibly clever pair of commentators
-- one in the suites and one in the
garage. Using large screen TVs in the
suites and its own TV cameras and
race feeds, West McLaren kept up us
informed about everything that was
happening on a regular basis.
As
an example, we got to hear the incredible sound of the 7-speed gear box
being
tested in the garage - with the car off the ground, the mechanic revs
the
motor up to some insane rpm and then shifts the car through the entire
range,
up and down. The tranny shifts gears in 25 milliseconds, so it
sounds
something like this: Waaaaa aaaaaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa aaaaa
aaaaa.
Unbelievable. The engines generate about 850 hp on pump gasoline and
rev to
16,500 rpm. 0-60 takes 2 sec, 0-100 is 5 sec.
At Indy, they
were under full throttle for 22 seconds nonstop, the longest
in F1, and
reached 200+ mph before braking for turn 1. David Coulthard
told us
that turn 1 made him feel like a real race driver.
Oh yes, the drivers
came and talked to us. They knew they were talking to
SPONSORS, the folks who
put up the $200 million that lets them go so fast,
so they did their standup
routines very well. Coulthard is very funny and
forthright, while Mika
Hakkinen is much like you see on TV during the
interviews. To Mika's credit,
he was more personable with us than he is on TV.
Sounds like I was
buddy-buddy with Dave and Mike, doesn't it? Actually, I
only got within 10 ft
of Coulthard, along with 900 other people, so we
didn't have a
conversation.
The hospitality during the race and Friday and Saturday
nights was
everything you imagine. It was like being in a Hollywood movie.
Try to
picture what it would be like to be entertained trackside by the top
F1
team in the world -- it was all that and more! We were treated
to
wonderful food, excellent wine, and superb entertainment morning, noon
and
night. We got racing shirts, jackets, hats, wristwatches,
throwaway
cameras, Hugo Boss gifts sets, and commerative tea cups. The
producer of
the Friday night entertainment (including performers from Circ du
Solei in
Paris) told me that West McLaren had put the extravaganza together
in the
hopes of making F1 more understandable and enjoyable for its sponsors
in
the US, so that the sport will grow here.
(In my humble opinion,
F1 won't take off here until there is an American
driver in the ranks, and
they change the wings and aerodynamics so that
passing is possible. But
that's another topic)
For all the folks out there who run race teams (we
have a TransAm team) and
treat their sponsors to hamburgers, hot dogs and
brats under a hospitality
tent stretched between the transporters, let me say
this: Man, F1 knows how
to treat sponsors right! West McLaren and
Siemens probably spent more on
hospitality for this single event than we
spend on our race cars for an
entire year.
Here's an example: On
Saturday, it took an unacceptable amount of time to
get from our downtown
hotel to the track for morning practice. Siemens had
rented 25 identical
silver/gray minivans, and it took well over an hour to
go the five miles to
the track on Saturday. So, on race day, Siemens hired
the county sheriff to
give us an escort. Our caravan made it to INSIDE the
speedway, to the
entrance to the paddock area, in 15 minutes. We never
stopped -- not for red
lights, not for traffic, not for pedestrians. With
sirens blaring and lights
flashing, the police took us into oncoming
traffic, around stopped cars at
intersections, and through red lights, all
with the assistance of local
police at each intersection. What a ride! I
have no idea what that
cost, but I'll be it was not cheap.
That's all I can think of at 5:45
am.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:11:24
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Formula 1 Report -- Very Long
Rich, thanks a lot for the
great write-up !!
I live about 20km away from the headquarter of
Sauber-Petronas and have
been there three times. I felt like walking through
a surgery station in a
hospital as everything was so clean, each tool was on
it's place and was
only of best quality !! I was envited to a selection of a
new quality
engineer but I found out that the salary is very low until
you're getting
one of the heroes in the team and others now want you to take
over to their
team. Before that I would have earned only little more than
1/2 of what I
earn as a Business Development Manager now. The manager there
then told me
that this should not be a problem because you'll not have any
time to spend
it (gulp).
With this little story, I just wanted to
show the people that there are
millions around but a lot people that are
working in these teams do not
earn a lot. They are like kids when the team
is gettign a point and i
nItaly I heard from people that are workign for
free for Ferrari becaus
it's simply a honour to be a part of and that you
can wear a red shirt with
the jumping horse on it.
>F1 is high
technology gone berserk. Watch carefully next time you see them
>start an
F1 engine. It takes two Siemens Fujitsu laptop computers -- one
>for the
engine and one for the chassis -- to start them up. That's why you
>never
see an F1 car push-started, and why the driver simply abandons it if
>the
car stalls on the track. It can't be restarted without being taken
back
>to the pits and hooked up to the computers.
This is not
really correct because the F1 law is that the cars are not
allowed to be
pushed by anybody else than the team members. An example,
Villeneuve once
had too much oversteer in Hungary (I guess turn 2) and he
activated the
clutch too late or it was already burned out so the engine
died. No they do
not have startes built in but Villeneuve had the luck that
the road was
going down and he rolled down and kicked in 2nd so the engine
awoke again.
He'd be getting disqualified if the marshalls (people in the
suits aroudn
the track) would have pushed him but this way he was able to
go on in the
race.
>plug for my Siemens friends), they transmit the real-time data
via
>satellite back to McLaren headquarters in England, where 100
engineers
>monitor every variable in real time. If they spot an anomaly,
they can
>communicate directly with the crew chief over the
satellite.
So they had a sat problem yesterday ?? I think again the
exhaust part broke
and killed an oil line that finally started to burn ! Bad
for Mika and the
team.
Additionally should be said that the
datastream is only unidirectional from
car to the pits. It is not allowed
that any data is sent to the car to
change any parameters. For this the
driver can change some values in the
cockpit (brakes, mixture, clutch...)
and he can switch the display for the
information. The only data sent to the
driver are pit signals and the
times. This data must then be given in a log
to the F1 control team and
they analyze the data to find any hidden part
that could contain some data
for the car. Really lots behind the szene here
:)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:26:02
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Formula 1 Report -- Very Long
>>plug for my Siemens
friends), they transmit the real-time data via
>>satellite back to
McLaren headquarters in England, where 100 engineers
>>monitor every
variable in real time. If they spot an anomaly, they can
>>communicate
directly with the crew chief over the satellite.
>>So they had a sat
problem yesterday ?? I think again the exhaust part broke
>and killed an
oil line that finally started to burn ! Bad for Mika and the
>team.
Alas, they did not have the satellite capability in the
USA. They only use
the satellite in Europe.
>
>. The only data
sent to the driver are pit signals and the
>times. This data must then be
given in a log to the F1 control team and
>they analyze the data to find
any hidden part that could contain some data
>for the car. Really lots
behind the szene here :)
>
Yes. The FIA also gets a software "dump" at
the beginning of the season,
and then periodically during the season to make
sure that the computer is
not controlling anything it is not supposed to.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 08:18:04
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Formula 1 Report -- Very Long
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
The engines generate about 850 hp on pump gasoline and rev to
> 16,500
rpm. 0-60 takes 2 sec, 0-100 is 5 sec.
One of the television
announcers said the gasoline [ fuel ] was 118
octane unleaded --- that should
control our detonation problem. Not
quite pump gas, not any pumps in my area
anyway.
Sounds like you had fun --- being a big shot sure would be fun. A
friend
of mine gets us passes to a suite for the NHRA winter nationals
and spring
nationals, and, while nowhere near the same level as the treatment
you
describe it sure is fun to watch the riff-raff from the air
conditioned
confines of a suite, to say nothing of being able to get within
50 feet of
fuel dragster if you wish. Acceleration is a tad quicker and at 50
feet you
almost can't breathe at
launch.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:32:14
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Formula 1 Report -- Very Long
>
>One of the
television announcers said the gasoline [ fuel ] was 118
>octane unleaded
--- that should control our detonation problem. Not
>quite pump gas, not
any pumps in my area anyway.
>
Allegedly, F1 cars use pump gas that
will be required in Yurp in 2003, or
something like that.. Bernie is very
ecologically minded.
>>confines of a suite, to say nothing of
being able to get within 50 feet of
>fuel dragster if you wish.
We
got to go inside the hot pits and get our pictures taken standing next
to
Mika's and David's cars.
>Acceleration is a tad quicker
Not
much
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:03:21
+0100
From: "George Shaw" <
george.shaw@btinternet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: exhaust
Exhaust. Which one? HKS or Borla? Cats or Not?
I
am after a near stock look i.e twin outlets not one side only but with
better
breath capability.
Roger I believe you may have most experience on this ?
Do you have the part
numbers for the Bprla and ATR setup you
did?
eMail:
george.shaw@btinternet.comFax/Voice
Mail: +44 (0) 87 0133
6126
Mobile:
+44 (0) 78 1162
5179
Home:
+44 (0) 28 9062
8924
ICQ#:
1741675
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:33:44
-0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Differential type on VR-4?
What type of differentials are on the
VR-4? I see a Subaru site
(
http://www.imprezawrx.org/) which gives
some great details but I want to
learn more. This page,
http://www.imprezawrx.org/tech/tech2.html,
has some
good data but I don't know what type we have or if it is another
breed
completely different.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK and a Valentine One
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgihttp://www.3kgt.com - "Car pictures" then
"Readers' 4" page
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:37:00
-0600
From: "Ken Wheeler" <
kenwheeler@phoenixdsl.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: exhaust
Why not do a custom? It's cheaper and just as
effective.
Ken Wheeler
'92 RT/TT
'67 Mustang
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "George Shaw" <
george.shaw@btinternet.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, September 25, 2000 12:03 PM
Subject: Team3S: exhaust
>
Exhaust. Which one? HKS or Borla? Cats or Not?
>
> I am after a near
stock look i.e twin outlets not one side only but with
> better breath
capability.
>
> Roger I believe you may have most experience on this
? Do you have the
part
> numbers for the Bprla and ATR setup you
did?
>
>
>
>
eMail:
george.shaw@btinternet.com>
Fax/Voice Mail: +44 (0) 87 0133 6126
>
Mobile:
+44 (0) 78 1162 5179
>
Home:
+44 (0) 28 9062 8924
>
ICQ#:
1741675
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:55:20
EDT
From:
Zeoswolf@aol.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: exhaust
In a message dated 9/25/00 2:40:11 PM Eastern
Daylight Time,
kenwheeler@phoenixdsl.com
writes:
<< Why not do a custom? It's cheaper and just as
effective.
Ken Wheeler
'92 RT/TT
'67
Mustang
>>
actually i have found that custom
costs about the same as a the borla
turbo catback. everyone is
like, oh get custom, it will only be like 300
bucks... yeah right.. i priced
out custom systems using GOOD parts and was
still up in the 700 dollar
range. only way you are getting a custom system
system for 300 bucks
is if you arent using stainless steal and using some
really crappy
aftermarket muffler(s) and tips and if you know the guy doing
it. so i
figured i go for the borla turbo system... sweet sound, more power,
and no
guessing. completely bolt on, so no welding incase i need to fix
something its easy. i actually remember some guy on one of these list
tell
me that he had meineke do it and even had them throw on a high flow cat
for
250... i dont know about you all... but i would go to them with my
blazer,
let alone my stealth. i had a REAL custom shop do mine and the
work they did
is no questions asked 100% guarrenteed and if i need something
replaced or
fixed it is free. (i graduated HS with the guy who is VP
of sales). so
IMHO, stay away from custom unless it is done right by a
real custom shop
with quality parts and mandrel bend piping... or if you
want to with a
system.. i have the borla and love it! great sound and
great power.
downside for you, only 2 split rear exits, not twin a
side. the HKS i have
also had experience with... not a sweet sounding
at the borla but yields the
same power i feel. but once again, not
twin exits a side. im sure you can
get diffrent tips though...
cheers!
james
94R/T
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:04:06
-0600
From: "Ken Wheeler" <
kenwheeler@phoenixdsl.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: exhaust
I live here in Denver, CO and there's a custom shop
that quoted me $450-$500
for the entire setup. I've used him before and
trust his work. He's an
avid racer and has worked on our cars
before. I would tend to think that
each shop is different and you would
want to price them out in both quality
and price. As for Meineke,
that's crazy to have them do ANY work on your
car so I have to agree with you
on that one. Again, you can't label custom
shops as being too expensive
and using cheap parts. It may be true on some
occasions, but not on
most. BTW, you can get a Hi-Flo Catfor MUCH cheaper
than $250. As
for installation, sure, it may be an easy bolt on if you can
get your old
stuff off. I've got pneumatics and it was still a bear to get
some of
mine off, in fact, we gave up on a couple of parts! :)
Ken Wheeler
'92
RT/TT
'67 Mustang
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <
Zeoswolf@aol.com>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, September 25, 2000 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S:
exhaust
> In a message dated 9/25/00 2:40:11 PM Eastern Daylight
Time,
>
kenwheeler@phoenixdsl.com
writes:
>
> << Why not do a custom? It's cheaper and
just as effective.
>
> Ken Wheeler
> '92
RT/TT
> '67 Mustang
>
>>
>
> actually i have found that custom
costs about the same as a the borla
> turbo catback. everyone
is like, oh get custom, it will only be like 300
> bucks... yeah right.. i
priced out custom systems using GOOD parts and was
> still up in the 700
dollar range. only way you are getting a custom
system
> system
for 300 bucks is if you arent using stainless steal and using some
>
really crappy aftermarket muffler(s) and tips and if you know the
guy
doing
> it. so i figured i go for the borla turbo system...
sweet sound, more
power,
> and no guessing. completely bolt on,
so no welding incase i need to fix
> something its easy. i actually
remember some guy on one of these list
tell
> me that he had meineke do
it and even had them throw on a high flow cat
for
> 250... i dont know
about you all... but i would go to them with my blazer,
> let alone my
stealth. i had a REAL custom shop do mine and the work they
did
>
is no questions asked 100% guarrenteed and if i need something replaced
or
> fixed it is free. (i graduated HS with the guy who is VP of
sales). so
> IMHO, stay away from custom unless it is done right by
a real custom shop
> with quality parts and mandrel bend piping... or if
you want to with a
> system.. i have the borla and love it! great
sound and great power.
> downside for you, only 2 split rear exits, not
twin a side. the HKS i
have
> also had experience with... not a
sweet sounding at the borla but yields
the
> same power i feel.
but once again, not twin exits a side. im sure you
can
> get
diffrent tips though... cheers!
>
> james
>
94R/T
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:23:06
EDT
From:
Zeoswolf@aol.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: exhaust
In a message dated 9/25/00 3:09:05 PM Eastern
Daylight Time,
kenwheeler@phoenixdsl.com
writes:
<< BTW, you can get a Hi-Flo Catfor MUCH
cheaper
than $250. >>
yeah i know, the custom
shop that did my exhaust told me 175 installed for
one... i was saying he
had a custom exhaust system AND a high flow cat for
250... that leaves
pretty much 75 bucks for the exhaust system... LOL.. i
think he got
screwed..
james
94R/T
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:34:58
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Differential type on VR-4?
Darren,
The service manuals
pretty much explain and diagram our drive train
setup. The rear diff has a
viscous coupling unit inside of it to give
it limited slip capability. The
center diff (inside the transaxle) is
also a viscous coupling setup. Its
output shaft is geared to the
front diff and also goes to the transfer case.
The front diff (also
inside the transaxle) is an open type. The center
diff/VC unit is
responsible for the torque split in our AWD cars. For details
on gear
reduction ratios please check out the page below at my web
site.
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/2-gears.htmJeff
Lucius, 3SI #476
-->
http://www.stealth316.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
To:
"Team3S (E-mail)" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, September 25, 2000 12:33 PM
Subject: Team3S: Differential type on
VR-4?
What type of differentials are on the VR-4? I see a Subaru
site
(
http://www.imprezawrx.org/)
which gives some great details but I
want to learn more. This page,
http://www.imprezawrx.org/tech/tech2.html,
has some good data but I
don't know what type we have or if it is another
breed completely
different.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK and a Valentine One
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgihttp://www.3kgt.com - "Car pictures" then
"Readers' 4"
page
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo!
Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:33:38
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: exhaust
> << BTW, you can get a Hi-Flo Catfor MUCH
cheaper
> than $250. >>
Yes, this is true but be aware
of quality !!! The first ATR high flow cats
sold for $199 was made of ceramic
and broke in pieces after about two weeks.
I the got a replacement and guess
what it was a metall mesh :) BTW, ATR cats
are Random Technologies and you
better watch the inside when you get it.
Regarding the custom exhaust,
this try & error custome put together exhausts
often end in error. This
means that the stuff can produce bad resonances and
causing even more back
pressure that the stock one does. A huge pipe is not
always the best as
increased velocity in a smaller diameter without any
turbulences produce a
better overall flow. Of course this must be calculated
and I do not belong to
those people who can do this. This is the cause why
I'd get the HKS, ATR or
Borla one. All are ok but we all should know that it
only starts to help when
the precats are gone.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:58:36
-0500
From: "Oskar" <
swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
exhaust
My personal opinion after having used both the HKS twin tip
exhaust, and now
the Borla. Go with the Borla. It is stainless,
weighs less, looks cooler,
sounds more aggressive and is less
expensive. I thought the HKS was too
heavy, and I didn't like the sound
it made while under throttle. Again,
these are personal
opinions.
- - Cats are good for emission.
- - These cars have too many
cats
- - No pre-cats improve spool-up and flow.
- - No main cat improves
spool-up and flow a tad bit more.
- - No cats let you use leaded
fuel.
The more cats you remove, the louder the car is going to
be.
Also, when I use no cats I've noticed that the exhaust fumes are
more
pronounced.
Maybe gut the pre-cats and get a high flow main cat
to go with your Borla!
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "George Shaw" <
george.shaw@btinternet.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, September 25, 2000 1:03 PM
Subject: Team3S: exhaust
>
Exhaust. Which one? HKS or Borla? Cats or Not?
>
> I am after a near
stock look i.e twin outlets not one side only but with
> better breath
capability.
>
> Roger I believe you may have most experience on this
? Do you have the
part
> numbers for the Bprla and ATR setup you
did?
>
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:59:56
-0500
From: "Oskar" <
swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
exhaust
Another factor to consider is that a name brand exhaust can bring
some money
if you ever decide to get rid of it. I doubt that you will
get much for the
custom system you just hacksawed off your
car.
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
>
>
actually i have found that custom costs about the same as a the borla
>
turbo catback. everyone is like, oh get custom, it will only be like
300
> bucks... yeah right.. i priced out custom systems using GOOD parts
and was
> still up in the 700 dollar range. >
>
james
> 94R/T
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:03:38
-0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
Team3S: RPS clutch problems continue!!
Once again, The clutch bound
for my car has failed. (I sold it to a
customer of mine)
This is
the "updated RPS carbon clutch" Time until failure about
700
miles.
Buyer beware is all I can say about this
clutch.
I think it's about time we put RPS on a consumer alert
page. These
clutches have been nothing but a pain to me and many
others.
We (myself and a retailer I work closely with) are
currently in the process
of sending 3 RPS clutches back for warranty.
(two of which fit a 3000)
It seems that we have more failures than "good
results" out of the RPS brand
clutch.
I can't say anything but good
things about Rob Smith in handling the clutch
issues. I will say
that I am sick of the lies about "we fixed it this
time" Especially when the
stock Mitsubishi clutch has proven (to me) to hold
much
better.
Rob? Are you listening?
Brad
Check out my home
page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:08:16
EDT
From:
Zeoswolf@aol.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: exhaust
In a message dated 9/25/00 7:00:30 PM Eastern
Daylight Time,
swede@pclink.com
writes:
<< Oskar
'95 R/T TT >>
RIGHT ON OSKAR!! : )
james
94R/T
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:11:32
-0500
From: "Walton C. Gibson" <
kalla@tripoint.org>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: RPS clutch problems continue!!
> I think it's about time
we put RPS on a consumer alert page. These
> clutches have
been nothing but a pain to me and many others.
I just purchased an RPS
Stage II. I have not installed it yet, but I
did read good things about the
RPS when I ordered it. Am I going
to have nothing but problems out of it? If
so, I'll just send it back
and save myself the pain of finding out the hard
way.
Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:41:41
-0700
From: "Veilside GTO" <
gtovr4@postalzone.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RPS clutch problems continue!!
Send it back....trust
me....I was the customer Brad was talking about. I am
not very happy with
what is going on now and RPS is going to pay for the
labor one way or
another. I am not about to fork out anout $500 + to have my
mechanic's
correct this mistake.
Return it and get the ACT or the stock clutch and
save yourself the pain I
am going through.
Best,
Julian
Huang
94 Mitsubishi Veilside Tein TEC GTO tt
Team 3S
Seattle,
Washington
gtovr4@postalzone.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Walton C. Gibson
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 4:12 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: RPS clutch problems continue!!
> I think it's about
time we put RPS on a consumer alert page. These
> clutches
have been nothing but a pain to me and many others.
I just purchased an
RPS Stage II. I have not installed it yet, but I
did read good things about
the RPS when I ordered it. Am I going
to have nothing but problems out of it?
If so, I'll just send it back
and save myself the pain of finding out the
hard way.
Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:22:43
-0500
From: "Trevor L. James" <
trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: RPS clutch problems continue!!
I don't think that's fair.
Supposedly they've changed the clutch composition
since everyone was having
problems. I have an RPS stage II that I bought around
the 20th of April &
works great with about 420lbft or torque. No slipping during
launches or
chattering around town. I've done quite a few 3.9X second 0-60's
with it
according to my G-tech. Even spun all 4 tires once for 30' just to test
it
out. (Don't try that at home kiddies) If you purchased that clutch within
the
last few months I wouldn't worry...
Trevor
96 Stealth R/T
TT
12.65@107.9With so many new mods that
time isn't even close anymore...
92 GMC Typhoon
13.96@9.4Veilside GTO wrote:
>
Send it back....trust me....I was the customer Brad was talking about. I
am
> not very happy with what is going on now and RPS is going to pay for
the
> labor one way or another. I am not about to fork out anout $500 + to
have my
> mechanic's correct this mistake.
>
> Return it and
get the ACT or the stock clutch and save yourself the pain I
> am going
through.
>
> Best,
>
> Julian Huang
> 94
Mitsubishi Veilside Tein TEC GTO tt
> Team 3S
> Seattle,
Washington
>
gtovr4@postalzone.com>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Walton C. Gibson
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 4:12
PM
> To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RPS clutch problems continue!!
>
> > I think
it's about time we put RPS on a consumer alert page. These
>
> clutches have been nothing but a pain to me and many
others.
>
> I just purchased an RPS Stage II. I have not installed
it yet, but I
> did read good things about the RPS when I ordered it. Am I
going
> to have nothing but problems out of it? If so, I'll just send it
back
> and save myself the pain of finding out the hard
way.
>
> Walton C. Gibson
>
kalla@tripoint.org***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:44:07
-0400
From: Ken Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
CAPS program
Hey all
I downloaded the CAPS program today - that's
real nice =)
Does anyone have a better writeup on how to select the correct
vehicle?
I read the readme file and stuff and couldn't figure out how to pick
the
right car. I also want to use this program for
compatibilty
investigations, as well as regular replacements.
Thanks
so much,
Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White RT/TT
Organizer - 3SI Rochester
(NY)
_________________________________________________________
Do
You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at
http://mail.yahoo.com***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:53:17
-0500
From: "Oskar" <
swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
RPS clutch problems continue!!
I am of a different opinion, and
think that anyone buying an RPS unit need
to think twice before
proceeding.
Why - because while Rob Smith acknowledges that there is a
problem, he is
not taking the correct measures to address it. When I
last spoke with RPS
(early this summer) I was being told by the sales staff
(Gary) that
everything was ok. Since I refused to believe this I
eventually got to
speak with Rob. He told me that they had recently
discovered that the
pressure plates did not have the clamping force they
advertised. In fact,
early indications were that they had less clamping
force than the stock
units.
Excerpt of phone conversation:
Me: What!!!
- Gary just told me that everything was ok.
Rob: Well, we haven't told the
sales staff yet.
Me: When did you find this out?
Rob: Oh, about two weeks
ago.
Strike one - that is just not acceptable to me. I want to be
informed of
these kinds of things by the guy that takes my CC number.
Also, vendors
should be informed, and all stock returned to the
manufacturer. Actually,
why not inform your customers who recently
bought from you?!
Back to the conversation with Rob: So, then I'm told to
send the unit in and
they will "shim it up for me".
Strike two -
sounds unscientific - I was just told there was currently no
way of correctly
testing the clamping force of 3000GT pressure plates. How
can you
possibly shim it correctly?
Then I ask what the disc is made of, my
original disk was all carbon.
Rob: Oh we now make them in a six puck style
with alternating carbon and
ceramic pucks.
Me: Oh so it has been changed
from what I initially ordered?
Rob: Yeah, we figured the ceramic would wear
longer...
Me: Yeah, what are the results of your testing?
Rob: Well, we
have shipped out quite a few of these
Me: What is the long term test results
then?
Rob: Well, should be good...
Strike three - you're out. I
don't want to pay $500 to get the honor of
testing out your stuff
I
think that RPS has been experimenting with the 3000GT clutches, and have
been
using us as their test bed. Personally I'm not interested in this,
at
least not when I'm paying for it. Anyone who buys an RPS clutch
should be
aware of the fact that you may not get what you think you're
getting. When
you hear the claims of their fantastic clutches, ask how
they have been
holding up in 3000GTs. Ask for references of paying
customers who are
running similar HP as you are. The only reference I
was given was Mike of
Altered Atmosphere. Well that is cute, but he is
a vendor of RPS products.
I called him anyway and it turns out he had barely
got the unit in the car
at the time of our conversation. Some
reference!
It would be nice if people that were happy with their stage
III RPS clutches
would speak up. I asked this question on this mailing
list last spring, and
the results were pitiful. Based on my
conversations with Rob, and the
absence of people who were happy with their
RPS Stage III clutches I ended
up returning my unused clutch for a full
refund. RPS also paid for the
return postage - very nice!
People
running moderate HP, as I am, have been happy with stock clutches,
and
ACTs. I'll be getting myself one of these instead.
BTW - I
referenced the stage III unit thruout this e-mail because the
problems I have
heard of are all related to the Stage III clutch. Maybe the
others are
ok?
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Trevor L. James" <
trevor@kscable.com>
> I don't
think that's fair. Supposedly they've changed the clutch
composition
>
since everyone was having problems. I have an RPS stage II that I
bought
around
> the 20th of April & works great with about 420lbft
or torque. No slipping
during
> launches or chattering around town.
I've done quite a few 3.9X second
0-60's
> with it according to my
G-tech. Even spun all 4 tires once for 30' just to
test
> it out.
(Don't try that at home kiddies) If you purchased that clutch
within
the
> last few months I wouldn't worry...
>
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#275
*********************