team3s          Thursday, September 21 2000          Volume 01 : Number 272




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:25:21 -0700
From: "Nickolaos M. Sgouros" <atenag@coqui.net>
Subject: Team3S: Useful info: 5 to 6 gear tranny upgrade

Dear friends:
This is an experience that am having with my 1st gen RT TT and I thing to
share it with all of you guys.
I bout the car having replaced the transmission to 6 gear using a used one
from  VR4 94'. Since the beginning the car was giving me a vibration from a
rear low, that I was thinking  is coming from the supports of the axle or
the supports of the differential. I change everything spending money to 3
deferent mechanics and the problem is the same. Nobody can't tell me where
the vibration is coming from. The Mitsubishi dealer is telling me that I
have to change the differential because is no good. They quote the job for
$6,900!!!!! Than I start looking by myself to get a used differential in
order to change it with a friend. Then I called KORMEX and they told me
something that it makes me jump! WHEN YOU CHANGE TRANSMISSION FROM 5 TO 6
GEARS YOU MUST TO CHANGE THE REAR DIFFERENTIAL TOO. As far as I know my car
has the same 1st gen differential. I finally found a used one for $850 and I
will have it replaced soon. I hope this will resolve my "marathon" problem
and the transfer case with the front differential I hope are ok...
Conclusion: very few mechanics they know our cars. Here in Puerto Rico I
haven't found yet any and I thing I have to sell my be loving car because I
can't get service! I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!

Nikos the Greek
92' RT TT
Puerto Rico



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:55:54 -0400
From: Rick <melvin@gamewood.net>
Subject: Team3S: Transfer case Fill???????HELP!!!!!!!!

I can't find my CD manual and have dropped the oil out of my transfer
case..Can someone tell me where the fill to plug is ASAP.I found the
drain ,and the fill plug,but isn't there a fill to
plug?Help!!!,THANKS,(A picture would be nice)
RICK


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 08:01:32 +1200
From: Kevin Clark <Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
Subject: RE: Team3S: APEXI boost controller setup problem???--THANK YOU!!!

> I've been on these lists for more than two years now,
> and people seem to have more problems with boost
> controllers than anything else.  With all due respect
> to Roger's wonderful web site and diagrams, you'd think
> that SOMEBODY could figure out how to install these
> furshlugginer boost controllers without our having to
> go through 87 kinds of hell.

Problem is that each one is different, and some are much
easier to install than others.  I would have to say that
the Blitz would be one of the easiest, please no flames,
I did say "one of" :)

Roger's site is what got me to install one in the first
place, and I can honestly say that the Blitz DSBC is a no
brainer to install (I had not touched a car before adding
the Blitz).  I then went on to have a go at the spark plugs,
which was a bigger job, but if you blowup a photocopy of
an engine diagram and place (and label) all removed object
on that diagram then putting things back is a breeze...
having done it once, it gets much faster and easier on each
subsequent time.

While pictures are a great idea, they get really messy in,
and around, the engine compartment.  The parts on Roger's
site that REALLY helped me were the diagrams in his "turbo"
section.  Using the first picture (of the stock setup) to
compare to what I could locate in the car, and then using
the second picture (with the controller) and see what needs
to be changed - this really helped clear up any questions I
had concerning what to "cap" and where the "in" and "out"
hoses go.  While these may not be completely relevant I think
they do go a long way to clear up many questions realated to
installs.

What a stock setup looks like:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/prinzip5t.gif

The changes made for a Boost controller (ignore the dotted line
between the Solenoid valve and the boost measurement hose):
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/prinzipt.gif

Cheers,
Kevin.

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:58:53 -0500
From: sjc0u812@juno.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: APEXI boost controller setup problem???--THANK YOU!!!

Ken:

Okay folks, really, it's easy.  It sounds like you need to set your BADC
higher.  Yes, it takes a while to learn, but you can increase that speed
by monitoring your BADC vs. your boost spikes.  I think I started at 60
in the inital rpm band widths and set the rest to 55.  In two days of
"testing," it was a rocket ship.  Also, once you get near your target,
set the boost to learn and it will match itself up.  If you need
pictures, I have some.

Best,

SJ

On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:18:44 -0600 "Ken Wheeler"
<kenwheeler@phoenixdsl.com> writes:
> Well, I just installed one of these bad boys and......... the
> programming
> sucks.  The learning mode takes a while to finalize its settings.  I
> think
> it will be a good unit once it gets tuned in.  I went to the drag
> strip here
> in Denver last night and couldn't get above a .78 bars because the
> unit had
> finished learning yet.  That on top of there being over twice as
> many the
> normal racers, it was tough to get more than a couple of runs down
> the
> strip.  As soon as I get her "tuned" in, I should be pulling mid
> 14's at
> this altitude.  It's frustrating, so have patience.  A LOT of
> patience, and
> then wait a little more.  And if that doesn't work, take a break,
> and wait a
> little while longer.
>
> I'll also get the pics of my installation online here shortly (as
> soon as I
> can fix my digital camera since it fell off of the desk).
>
> Thanks, Jeff, for meeting me up there and the offer to borrow your
> helmet!
> Ha Ha
>
> Ken Wheeler
> '92 RT/TT
> '67 Mustang
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mihai Raicu" <aa2345@wayne.edu>
> To: "Stealth" <team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 9:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: APEXI boost controller setup problem???--THANK
> YOU!!!
>
>
> > Hello Team,
> >
> > Thanks Ken Middaugh, Jack M., Sue Smith, and Sam Shelat for your
> helpful
> > input on the low boost problem both my brother and I have ben
> having since
> > the incomplete Apexi AVC-R installation.  After reading your
> messages, I
> am
> > finally relieved that there is nothing wrong with our cars.  Next
> weekend
> I
> > will get to finish the entire setup (connect the AVC-R).  Until
> then, I
> need
> > to keep driving the car this way.  I will keep everyone posted on
> the
> > progress of the installation within ~1.5 weeks.  Then, I will
> probably ask
> > for more questions with regard to the initial setup of the menus.
> >
> > -MIKE-
> > 95 Red VR-4
> >
> > John (my brother)
> > 94 Pearl Yellow TT
> >
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:36:48 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: APEXI boost controller setup problem???--THANK YOU!!!

Guys,

Please do not use the old geocities pages anymore. The whole site is now
under www.rtec.ch and will only updated there. The other pages will be
cleaned soon.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

> What a stock setup looks like:
> http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/prinzip5t.gif
>
> The changes made for a Boost controller (ignore the dotted line
> between the Solenoid valve and the boost measurement hose):
> http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/prinzipt.gif



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:37:04 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transfer case Fill???????HELP!!!!!!!!

Rick, there isn't a separate fill-to or check plug on the transfer case.
The fill plug itself is also the check.  A paper-clip with the middle loop
bent perpendicular to the outer loop makes a nice tool for checking the
level through the plug (gotta' credit Curt Gendron for that little bit of
Mitsu genius!).

Hope this helps.

John Basol
'95 RT/TT



-----Original Message-----
From: Rick [SMTP:melvin@gamewood.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 2:56 PM
To: stealth@starnet.net; Stealth
Subject: Team3S: Transfer case Fill???????HELP!!!!!!!!

I can't find my CD manual and have dropped the oil out of my
transfer
case..Can someone tell me where the fill to plug is ASAP.I found the
drain ,and the fill plug,but isn't there a fill to
plug?Help!!!,THANKS,(A picture would be nice)
RICK


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:29:35 -0500
From: "Walton C. Gibson" <kalla@tripoint.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transfer case Fill???????HELP!!!!!!!!

> Rick, there isn't a separate fill-to or check plug on the transfer
> case. The fill plug itself is also the check.  A paper-clip with the
> middle loop bent perpendicular to the outer loop makes a nice tool for
> checking the level through the plug (gotta' credit Curt Gendron for
> that little bit of Mitsu genius!).

My transfer case has a level check hole which is separate from the
fill and drain plugs. The service manual makes a distinction
between pre-93 cases and 93+ transfer cases. On mine the check
hole is on the side, and the oil is supposed to reach right up to the
hole's opening. On pre-93 transfer cases the fill plug (17mm plug
on the front) doubles as the check plug. With that one you're
absolutely right about using the paper clip.

> John Basol
> '95 RT/TT

Does your '95 transfer case not have a check hole on the side?

Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:51:43 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Manual Controller woes

I'm back to a stock boost control system.

We could not make the Redline manual boost controller work. My mechanic
took it off the car and set it up on a flow bench and ran compressed air
through it at rates 0-15 psi. The valve has a spring-loaded ball that
doesn't work for diddley. We ran all sorts of pressure tests on it to
simulate increasing boost pressure, and it opened and closed and chattered
and oscillated all over the place. No wonder we couldn't get it to work on
the car. What a piece of junk.

My wrench is now trying to find a suitable manual valve -- perhaps one we
could adjust from inside the car. Any ideas? I know you guys buy aquarium
valves, but I was thinking more like an industrial manifold valve with an
electric actuator. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to adjust the boost
pressure with a knob or a 2- or 3-position switch?

Rich/94 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:03:10 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Manual Controller woes

> We could not make the Redline manual boost controller work. My mechanic
> took it off the car and set it up on a flow bench and ran compressed air
> through it at rates 0-15 psi. The valve has a spring-loaded ball that
> doesn't work for diddley. We ran all sorts of pressure tests on it to
> simulate increasing boost pressure, and it opened and closed and chattered
> and oscillated all over the place. No wonder we couldn't get it to work on
> the car. What a piece of junk.
>
> My wrench is now trying to find a suitable manual valve -- perhaps one we
> could adjust from inside the car. Any ideas? I know you guys buy aquarium
> valves, but I was thinking more like an industrial manifold valve with an
> electric actuator. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to adjust the boost
> pressure with a knob or a 2- or 3-position switch?

That is what I had before my Apexi SAVC-R.  See http://www.3si.org, tech tips,
bleeder valve mod for my $33 cockpit adjustable bleeder valve.  I used an air
regulator from Grangers.  A bleeder valve will work fine if you have an
aftermarket boost gauge.  A manual boost controller should be better though.
You are the first to report on the Redline, but others report that the Hallman
works very well.  If you don't already have an aftermarket boost gauge, then
seriously consider going directly to an electronic controller.  It is worth the
extra money.

Good luck,
Ken
- --
Forget world peace -- visualize using your turn signal!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:06:20 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transfer case Fill???????HELP!!!!!!!!

Ahhh Yes,
Curt just reminded me of that very thing.  My bad, I forgot that the
91-93 cases did have the check plug.  FWIW the 94+ cases do not.  Sorry for
the confusion.  :-)

John Basol
'95 RT/TT <-- Waiting on a new tranny.  :-(



-----Original Message-----
From: Walton C. Gibson [SMTP:kalla@tripoint.org]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 4:30 PM
To: team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transfer case Fill???????HELP!!!!!!!!

> Rick, there isn't a separate fill-to or check plug on the transfer
> case. The fill plug itself is also the check.  A paper-clip with
the
> middle loop bent perpendicular to the outer loop makes a nice tool
for
> checking the level through the plug (gotta' credit Curt Gendron
for
> that little bit of Mitsu genius!).

My transfer case has a level check hole which is separate from the
fill and drain plugs. The service manual makes a distinction
between pre-93 cases and 93+ transfer cases. On mine the check
hole is on the side, and the oil is supposed to reach right up to
the
hole's opening. On pre-93 transfer cases the fill plug (17mm plug
on the front) doubles as the check plug. With that one you're
absolutely right about using the paper clip.

> John Basol
> '95 RT/TT

Does your '95 transfer case not have a check hole on the side?

Walton C. Gibson
kalla@tripoint.org

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:15:03 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Manual Controller woes

Rich,
The DSM guys have a cockpit adjustable manual valve that they use
and really like.  They used to use a needle/valve type controller (I myself
used one in my old DSM, worked GREAT!), but they have since moved to a
spring/ball type controller, and appear to like it as well.  I know of one
individual using one already, I'll see if I can part number info for you if
you wish.

John Basol
'95 RT/TT



-----Original Message-----
From: Merritt [SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 4:52 PM
To: stealth@starnet.net; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Manual Controller woes

I'm back to a stock boost control system.

We could not make the Redline manual boost controller work. My
mechanic
took it off the car and set it up on a flow bench and ran compressed
air
through it at rates 0-15 psi. The valve has a spring-loaded ball
that
doesn't work for diddley. We ran all sorts of pressure tests on it
to
simulate increasing boost pressure, and it opened and closed and
chattered
and oscillated all over the place. No wonder we couldn't get it to
work on
the car. What a piece of junk.

My wrench is now trying to find a suitable manual valve -- perhaps
one we
could adjust from inside the car. Any ideas? I know you guys buy
aquarium
valves, but I was thinking more like an industrial manifold valve
with an
electric actuator. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to adjust the
boost
pressure with a knob or a 2- or 3-position switch?

Rich/94 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:30:16 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: APEXI boost controller setup problem???--THANK YOU!!!

The Apexi indiglo SAVC-R should learn very easy and quickly.  You should be able
to learn a very good curve in five or six accelerations in 2nd gear.  That
should only take you a total of 6 minutes on a vacant road.  Once you get a good
curve from 2nd gear, disable 2nd gear learning then make some 3rd gear
accelerations.

If your boost is spiking, then learning mode gets disabled.  If you are spiking,
then try LOWERING your initial Duty Cycle setting.  You should have an initial
setting in the 40's for a boost setting around 1.05 kg/cm^^2 ~= 15 psi.  Most
people set the initial Duty Cycle way too high, then overboost in low RPM which
then disables learning.

Please let me know if you need help tuning the SAVC-R.  Once you understand how
the unit learns and what the configuration parameters do, it becomes very easy
to program.  If I haven't sent you my previous SAVC-R posts, let me know and
I'll send them to you.  If you already have them, reread them, especially the
description on how the unit learns.  I'll try to consolidate my old posts into
an Apexi help guide and get it on the web pages soon.

- -Ken

> Well, I just installed one of these bad boys and......... the programming
> sucks.  The learning mode takes a while to finalize its settings.  I think
> it will be a good unit once it gets tuned in.  I went to the drag strip here
> in Denver last night and couldn't get above a .78 bars because the unit had
> finished learning yet.  That on top of there being over twice as many the
> normal racers, it was tough to get more than a couple of runs down the
> strip.  As soon as I get her "tuned" in, I should be pulling mid 14's at
> this altitude.  It's frustrating, so have patience.  A LOT of patience, and
> then wait a little more.  And if that doesn't work, take a break, and wait a
> little while longer.
>
> I'll also get the pics of my installation online here shortly (as soon as I
> can fix my digital camera since it fell off of the desk).

- --
Forget world peace -- visualize using your turn signal!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:23:43 -0400
From: Rick <melvin@gamewood.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Transfer case Fill???????HELP!!!!!!!!

OK,Now I am confused!The car is a '92 T/T. Does it have a fill to plug or
not?And if so is it the 14mm head plug I found finger tight, that is on the
drivers side by the exhaust?It has some kind of blockage so you can't stick
anything in past the threads,but I guess fluid would pass.And if this is the
fill to plug ,I do need to fill the case till oil comes out of it?
RICK

"Basol, John" wrote:

> Ahhh Yes,
>         Curt just reminded me of that very thing.  My bad, I forgot that the
> 91-93 cases did have the check plug.  FWIW the 94+ cases do not.  Sorry for
> the confusion.  :-)
>
> John Basol
> '95 RT/TT <-- Waiting on a new tranny.  :-(
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From:   Walton C. Gibson [SMTP:kalla@tripoint.org]
>         Sent:   Thursday, September 21, 2000 4:30 PM
>         To:     team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st
>         Subject:        RE: Team3S: Transfer case Fill???????HELP!!!!!!!!
>
>         > Rick, there isn't a separate fill-to or check plug on the transfer
>         > case. The fill plug itself is also the check.  A paper-clip with
> the
>         > middle loop bent perpendicular to the outer loop makes a nice tool
> for
>         > checking the level through the plug (gotta' credit Curt Gendron
> for
>         > that little bit of Mitsu genius!).
>
>         My transfer case has a level check hole which is separate from the
>         fill and drain plugs. The service manual makes a distinction
>         between pre-93 cases and 93+ transfer cases. On mine the check
>         hole is on the side, and the oil is supposed to reach right up to
> the
>         hole's opening. On pre-93 transfer cases the fill plug (17mm plug
>         on the front) doubles as the check plug. With that one you're
>         absolutely right about using the paper clip.
>
>         > John Basol
>         > '95 RT/TT
>
>         Does your '95 transfer case not have a check hole on the side?
>
>         Walton C. Gibson
>         kalla@tripoint.org
>
>         ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:12:28 -0700
From: "Steve Cooper" <scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Team3S: APEXI boost controller setup problem???

- -----Original Message-----
Hello all,

A similar problem for me.Just installed a second hand Apexi avc type R,thats
the old one with from left to right,volume,mode, the display,then power
button.Itwas installed exactly as per Roger Gerl diagrams.
problem is it wont make boost,its easy to see why,once wastegates have
opened and the bcs solenoid valve closes again there is no way to let the
air out of the actuators to reclose the wastegates.
does anybody know the correct way to install this thing.
problem two-what is the green wire for,I only have the red & black connected
to bat & earth.

thanks

Steve Cooper

Black 93 GTO TT
No cats
ARC 2
13Gs
550 injectors
Apexi AVC-R
15Gs on their way
NOS about to be fitted










***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:24:03 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: What is this car?  ES or R/T

Hi all

Take a look at this car for sale on EBay.... I can't figure out which
model it really is!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=443704593

Any thoughts?

Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White RT/TT
Organizer - 3Si Rochester (NY)


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:34:19 -0400
From: "Roger J. Roskam" <roger.roskam@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: What is this car?  ES or R/T

Well, judging from the taillights, it started life as an RT, possibly turbo.
I don't believe the "lightly damaged (BEFORE)" crap:

It has:
1.  A salvage title - implies major damage.
2.  Obvious repainting (roof should be black). Wheels, too.
3.  Incorrect replacement ES model body work on the lower half of the door.
4.  A very anxious and picky seller.  No backing out? No warranty?
5.  A curious former owner. An insurance company generally doesn't own a car
unless it has been totalled.
6.  25 more HP than my 91 RT/TT.  Interesting!

Buddy, I wouldn't go near this one at any price!

Roger Roskam
91 Stealth RT/TT

> Hi all
>
> Take a look at this car for sale on EBay.... I can't figure out which
> model it really is!
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=443704593
>
> Any thoughts?
>



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:51:02 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Brad Bedell - you there?

Hello,

I'm looking for Brad Bedell.. anyone seen him?
I'm looking to do the infamous 5 to 6 speed conversion, and I've heard
he's done it.
You still around my man?

Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White RT/TT
Organizer - 3Si Rochester (NY)


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:59:28 -0700
From: "Chris Maxwell" <shmacker@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: What is this car?  ES or R/T

You forgot to add that it has cloth seats.  It's not a turbo...

Chris
92 TT

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger J. Roskam" <roger.roskam@home.com>


> It has:
> 1.  A salvage title - implies major damage.
> 2.  Obvious repainting (roof should be black). Wheels, too.
> 3.  Incorrect replacement ES model body work on the lower half of the
door.
> 4.  A very anxious and picky seller.  No backing out? No warranty?
> 5.  A curious former owner. An insurance company generally doesn't own a
car
> unless it has been totalled.
> 6.  25 more HP than my 91 RT/TT.  Interesting!
>
> Buddy, I wouldn't go near this one at any price!



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:51:34 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Manual Controller woes

> We could not make the Redline manual boost
> controller work. My mechanic took it off the
> car and set it up on a flow bench and ran
> compressed air through it at rates 0-15 psi.
> The valve has a spring-loaded ball that doesn't
> work for diddley. We ran all sorts of pressure
> tests on it to simulate increasing boost
> pressure, and it opened and closed and chattered
> and oscillated all over the place. No wonder we
> couldn't get it to work on the car. What a
> piece of junk.

It actually should osciliate like that if you have it set up with just
pressure going in one side.  As pressure rises past your setting it will
open the ball and as input pressure falls below the setting (since you are
bleeding pressure past the ball) it will close the ball.  If you are testing
it by slowly incresing pressure until it hits the opening point of the
valve, then that's the sort of behavior you'll see (which is actually the
same behavior an electronic controller will exhibit as well).

I don't know anyone with the Redline valve, but it sounds similar to the
Hallman-style valve which actually does work very well.

> My wrench is now trying to find a suitable
> manual valve -- perhaps one we could adjust from
> inside the car. Any ideas? I know you guys buy
> aquarium valves, but I was thinking more like an
> industrial manifold valve with an electric actuator.
> Wouldn't it be nice to be able to adjust the boost
> pressure with a knob or a 2- or 3-position switch?

The ball/spring ones might be a bit noisy to have inside the car, and
running the hoses all the way to a knob on the inside of the car is probably
going to slow the reaction of the controller so that you'll get boost spikes
and possibly boost creep in the higher gears.  Bleeder-style valves are
going to be really noisy inside the car as they'll leak pressure pretty much
all the time (and they won't give you the best spoolup response).  You
really want to keep the hoses as short as possible to maximize the accuracy
of the boost level.

If you aren't completely sold on the manual boost controller idea, consider
one of the electronic controllers with an overtake boost switch.  My HKS EVC
IV has OTB on it.  There's an optional switch that you can mount somewhere
and then program the controller to raise the boost by a specified amount for
a specified time interval and then it will return to your "standard" setting
when the time has elapsed.  It also has a nice feature where you can set an
"alarm boost" level where if you exceed that setting it will set the boost
back to something really low like 6-8 psi and start beeping to let you know
that something in the boost control system or hoses is screwed up.  It also
displays boost pressure on the display during normal usage.  Unfortunately,
the unit is too big to fit in the center vent so you need to get creative
with the mounting if you want to have it visible while driving.

I'm sure other controllers have similar features available.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:56:14 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: What is this car?  ES or R/T

> You forgot to add that it has cloth seats.  It's not a turbo...

But it has the button for ECS and has automatic climate control.  I'm
reasonably sure that you could cheap out in '91 and get cloth on the Stealth
TT.  Seems like it is a TT that has seen some major damage as some body
parts are wrong and it came from an insurance company.

I'd stay away from it as far as possible...

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:06:08 -0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: What is this car?  ES or R/T

* First, check the VIN through www.carfax.com <http://www.carfax.com>
and see what the records are (i.e. salvage title, etc.)
* Wheels (if stock) dictate it is a 1991 R/T TT with 17" wheels
* Correct noting by Roger on bad paint job - even the name "Dodge" on
the tail is white and is never the same color as the body
* Wouldn't the TT have a sunroof even from 1991?  Would this mean it
started life as an R/T or perhaps the sunroof was damaged in an accident and
the roof was repaired and painted?
* Note how the antenna mast does not fully retract
* Didn't all TT and VR-4s have side "gills" on them and this has none?
* Note at bottom of web page correctly notes that hp is 300 and not
325
* Can someone help tell me if the radio and single-play in-dash CD
player is not stock?  If the radio was replaced then the steering wheel
buttons are useless
* I see the climate control which I thought was only TT
* Early VR-4s had side markers between the front wheels and the door
(like where the Audi has them now) but were these on the Stealth line too?
* Just seems overall "shady" that the Kelly value is $10k and this is
at $4k now

The ultimate answer: have them take a picture of the engine bay.  That is
the EASIEST way to tell if it is a mid-level or Twin Turbo.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com

3Si #577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK and a Valentine One
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi
http://www.3kgt.com <http://www.3kgt.com>  - "Car pictures" then "Readers'
4" page

- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger J. Roskam [mailto:roger.roskam@home.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 22:34
To: Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: What is this car?  ES or R/T

Well, judging from the taillights, it started life as an RT, possibly turbo.
I don't believe the "lightly damaged (BEFORE)" crap:

It has:
1.  A salvage title - implies major damage.
2.  Obvious repainting (roof should be black). Wheels, too.
3.  Incorrect replacement ES model body work on the lower half of the door.
4.  A very anxious and picky seller.  No backing out? No warranty?
5.  A curious former owner. An insurance company generally doesn't own a car
unless it has been totalled.
6.  25 more HP than my 91 RT/TT.  Interesting!

Buddy, I wouldn't go near this one at any price!

Roger Roskam
91 Stealth RT/TT

> Hi all
>
> Take a look at this car for sale on EBay.... I can't figure out which
> model it really is!
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=443704593
>
> Any thoughts?
>



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:37:15 -0600
From: "Manoj Prasad-Uswest" <mprasad@uswest.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: What is this car?  ES or R/T

If I recall correctly, in 91 leather was an option. It looks like the back
side window does say twin turbo.

I would still stay away from this one. When someone says the car is in
running condtion, that tells me there is some problem with the engine.

Rgds
Moe
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Chris Maxwell
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:59 PM
To: team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: What is this car? ES or R/T


You forgot to add that it has cloth seats.  It's not a turbo...

Chris
92 TT

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger J. Roskam" <roger.roskam@home.com>


> It has:
> 1.  A salvage title - implies major damage.
> 2.  Obvious repainting (roof should be black). Wheels, too.
> 3.  Incorrect replacement ES model body work on the lower half of the
door.
> 4.  A very anxious and picky seller.  No backing out? No warranty?
> 5.  A curious former owner. An insurance company generally doesn't own a
car
> unless it has been totalled.
> 6.  25 more HP than my 91 RT/TT.  Interesting!
>
> Buddy, I wouldn't go near this one at any price!



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

_______________________________________________
Why pay for something you could get for free?
NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:52:19 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: What is this car?  ES or R/T

> * Wouldn't the TT have a sunroof even from
>   1991?  Would this mean it started life as
>   an R/T or perhaps the sunroof was damaged
>   in an accident and the roof was repaired
>   and painted?

Nope, sunroof was optional on both Stealth TT and VR4 from '91 to '97.  They
only became standard on SL's and VR4's in 1998 and 1999.

> * Didn't all TT and VR-4s have side "gills"
>   on them and this has none?

Yup, part of the screwy doors and rear quarter panel.  Those appear to be
base Stealth parts, as the base model didn't have the side pseudo-ducts.

Derek Hayes' base '93 Stealth:

http://www.mn3s.org/members/derek1.jpg

> * Can someone help tell me if the radio and
>   single-play in-dash CD player is not stock?
>   If the radio was replaced then the steering
>   wheel buttons are useless.

That's the same radio/CD that my friend's '91 VR4 had when stock.  The
buttons on the steering wheel worked fine.

> * Early VR-4s had side markers between the
>   front wheels and the door (like where the
>   Audi has them now) but were these on the
>   Stealth line too?

I think you are thinking of a different car...  ;-)  There are no
side-marker lights other than the ones in the turn signals, at least in the
US market.

Mark Wendlandt's '91 RT/TT:

http://www.mn3s.org/members/mark1.jpg

Kyle Goeman's '91 VR4:

http://www.mn3s.org/members/kyle4.jpg

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of team3s V1 #272
*********************