team3s            Thursday, August 3 2000            Volume 01 : Number 223




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 23:14:30 +0200
From: Mike Chapleski <mike.chapleski@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Running Hot

    I drove for 7+ hours each way on the autobahn this past weekend from
Frankfurt to Vienna and back.  I have a temperature thermocouple mounted in the
Y-pipe.  I was trying to do a test Jack T. suggested several weeks ago of
finding a steep hill and flooring it in 4th and seeing how long I could hold it
at 14 psi.  The best I could get in 4th was about 20 seconds, so I tried it
again in 6th and got about 40 seconds.  I also did a bunch of acceleration runs
from 60 to 130 mph.  While it is hard to look at EGT, water temp, intake temp,
boost, RPM, and speed, along with the road, I did come to some seat of the pants
conclusions.
    As anything above 0 psi, the intake temp will start to rise. at anything
above 5 psi, the temp really starts to rise, at 14 psi, the intake temp will NOT
stop rising.  The maximum intake temp I was able to hit was 110 deg F.  This was
not because it maxed out there, it was because I ran out of road.  I have
therefore concluded that our intercoolers just plain suck.  The rise
(acceleration) in intake temp was directly related to boost.  Which makes sense,
however, you would think that at greater speeds (up to a point) the intercoolers
would be working better with more air passing over then.  That did not appear to
be the case.  I think my Stealth has the biggest IC openings of all the stock
front ends, and it still sucks.  If I could find a way to monitor it, I would
love to plot the turbo exhaust, IC inlet, IC outlet, and y-pipe simultaneously,
to see what  kind of temp drop there is over the entire system.  I am working on
this one.
    What I do know is that heat soak (as I interpret it) is not a problem on our
cars, EXCEPT when you stop the car.  I can push the turbos very hard and the
intake temp always acts very predictable (i.e. drops to the same temp when I am
off the turbos).  But if I turn the car off for 15 minutes, and get back in, it
takes at least 20 minutes of HIGH speed driving to get the intake temps back
down.  This 20 minutes is the air flow getting rid of the heat soak the IC
piping and turbos have absorbed.  Stopped and idling is almost as bad.
    At normal highway driving of 110 mph in 6th gear, my intake temp was about
97 deg, with outside air being about 72 deg.  If I was getting heat soak, this
97 deg number would slowly rise.  Also, the highest intake temp I ever recorded
on the highway, was a run I made from 0-140 mph (accelerating Very hard) of 127
deg.  So for you drag racers out there, you may want to monitor your intake
temp.  I think you will find that a FMIC could make a real difference.

Hope this makes sense,

Mike Chapleski
'95 Stealth RT TT
Frankfurt, Germany
Borla, Alamo DP, K&N, Blitz DSBC, etc.

"Jannusch, Matt" wrote:

> Jeff said:
>
> >> That MEANS..that the stock ICs have a certain threshold
> >> of being able to dissipate heat. Once you reach that
> >> limit of heat injected into the IC, it can no longer
> >> dissipate it quick enough..and they just get hotter and
> >> hotter.  You then have to drop the amount of heat going
> >> into the IC, to allow it to cool down. A more efficient
> >> IC at the CFM fo air you are running, will work better.
>
> Rich said:
>
> > Hey gang...what do you think of Jeff's analysis? Think
> > that's causing my water temps to go up?
>
> It is certainly a possibility.  Heat soak usually only happens during
> prolonged high-boost situations, especially when travelling slowly.  If you
> are still running stock boost levels and it happened while at a decent
> speed, I don't think it would be heat soak - and if it was, then I don't
> think it was the primary factor.  If the intake temps get high it will cause
> more knock and the ECU will retard the timing.  You'd feel the power start
> to fall off, so if you noticed that then there's a good possibility that the
> intercoolers were getting really hot.
>
> The proportion of intake air heat versus the heat from actual combustion is
> a reasonably small amount though, I'm not sure it could actually overheat
> the motor although it can certainly reduce performance by a large factor if
> allowed to get out of control.
>
> I'd point my finger at the cooling system before the intercoolers, but heat
> soak could be a possibility if the cooling system checks out.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:38:05 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Unorthodox Pulley Is Bad For Engine

> The other factor is that these engines are typically
> purpose-built and operate within fairly narrow RPM
> ranges and therefore spend very little time in the
> ranges where harmonic balance is an issue for the
> specific engine.

...and they are usually torn down and rebuilt after every race to replace
worn components whether they have failed or not.  Folks probably aren't
going to do that with their street cars.

> That being said, I suppose it is possible that the
> 6G would not require a harmonic balancer IFF the
> range of operation was determined where these
> harmonics occur, AND the engine was only ever
> operated in those ranges.  In any case this
> eliminates street driven cars.

In high-performance snowmobile applications (which I'm more familiar with),
the harmonics get significantly worse as RPMs increase.  The magnitude of
the vibration increases geometrically.  It is really easy to change gearing
on snowmobiles, and people who mis-gear their sleds and run at too high RPM
tend to have catastrophic crank/bearing failure unless they use a
fluid-damped "pulley" (it isn't really a pulley as no belt attaches to it,
but for the sake of our discussion it is the same).  If you fit a harmonic
dampener then higher RPMs are relatively safe.  In other words - these
motors are designed to operate at RPM ranges below where harmonics are of
significant magnitude to cause engine damage.  Mitsubishi added the dampener
pulley to allow the motor to operate at higher RPMs than it safely could
without the pulley.

So, if you drive your car like a minivan and shift at low RPM then you can
probably get away with an underdrive pulley (but probably aren't hungry for
power anyways).  If you drive like me and like to run it to the redline a
few times a day, then you maybe want to stick with Mitsubishi's design.

If you use a non-dampened pulley, start putting aside some money for an
engine rebuild.  You may be lucky, or you may not.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:48:47 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Running Hot

>    As anything above 0 psi, the intake temp will start to rise. at anything
>above 5 psi, the temp really starts to rise, at 14 psi, the intake temp
will NOT
>stop rising.  <snip>  I have
>therefore concluded that our intercoolers just plain suck.  The rise
>(acceleration) in intake temp was directly related to boost.

Hmmm.My problem at the Heartland Park road course was that whenever I used
lots of boost (stock boost), my water temperature would go up. It crept up
when I used boost over a few laps, then came down rapidly if I short
shifted and stayed out of the boost. Maybe Mike is onto something.

But can elevated intake temps cause higher water temps? Mike, did you see
any corresponding increase in water temp during your tests?

 Which makes sense,
>however, you would think that at greater speeds (up to a point) the
intercoolers
>would be working better with more air passing over then.  That did not
appear to
>be the case.

especially at speeds of 100+

>deg.  So for you drag racers out there, you may want to monitor your intake
>temp.  I think you will find that a FMIC could make a real difference.

Yeah, but for us road racers, I think a FMIC would contribute to the water
cooling problem.
However, it seems that I'm the only one with a water temp problem.

Rich/old poop


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:08:00 -0500
From: "Dale T. Kroetz" <kroetz@mvn.net>
Subject: Team3S: wiring question

Hello,
    To make a long story short, I have a malfunctioning factory alarm in
a 92 SL. I have had it to the local dealer for repair and all they could
do after 4 hours of labor charges was manage to get the horn and lights
to not trigger. The headlights still pop up but don't flash. My question
is, can the headlights be wired not to pop up at ANY TIME except when
you push the switch on the dash? I would gladly manually raise the
lights to get around this annoying problem. Suggestions please.

- --



Dale T. Kroetz
kroetz@mvn.net



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:25:18 -0400
From: Denny Maderi <dmaderi@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: wiring question

Yup, no problem follow this link the mod will do what you want it to do.
http://www.3si.org/SnakeEyes.html
- -Deano
Syracuse
'93 Stealth ES
(Day 5 at the dealer and they still don't know what's wrong with it)

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Dale T. Kroetz
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 6:08 PM
To: 3000GT List
Subject: Team3S: wiring question


Hello,
    To make a long story short, I have a malfunctioning factory alarm in
a 92 SL. I have had it to the local dealer for repair and all they could
do after 4 hours of labor charges was manage to get the horn and lights
to not trigger. The headlights still pop up but don't flash. My question
is, can the headlights be wired not to pop up at ANY TIME except when
you push the switch on the dash? I would gladly manually raise the
lights to get around this annoying problem. Suggestions please.

- --



Dale T. Kroetz
kroetz@mvn.net



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 23:52:38 GMT
From: "Ryan Meador" <captainrye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Cosmetics

I KNOW that I'm not the only one with this problem- therefore I'll ask you
all...
Has anyone found a way to cosmeticly repair the black trim on the doors just
below the side windows? My paint is so beautiful- but when you get close to
the car- that peeling, fading, cracking black molding makes it look 7 years
old. (Which it is- but why advertise) Because of the cracking, a quick layer
of paint would not do the trick. Any wizzards have a good fix for this one?
Thanks in advance.
Ryan '93 VR4
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:57:38 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Team3S: In pursuit of bigger, better brakes!

Hello folks,

Is anybody interested in improving their braking capability?

Brad Bedell has been wanting to develop a 2-piece rotor for his Porsche 'Big
Red' brake kit.  Originally he was interested in KVR built hats and KVR rotors
(probably Brembo blanks).  We are now both interested in Porsche's 322mm x 32mm
cross-drilled bi-turbo GT2 rotors and possibly Porsche's 330mm x 34mm GT3
rotors!  For hats, he may also have a local shop build them instead of KVR.  If
you take a look at the Mov'it kit at
http://www.ultimategarage.com/bigbrake1.html, they talk about the superiority of
Porsche rotors (metallurgy, dual vanes for cooling, 'cross-drilled' holes are
actually cast at 4mm instead of drilled at 8mm, etc.).  Also the GT2 rotors
should cost about $175 each off the shelf.  Therefore a set of hats and rotors
should cost less than the Bremsa's ($1000) that some of our European members are
using!  Also hats don't have to be replaced as often as rotors do so this brings
down the cost over 2-4 sets.

So, are any of you interested in helping fund a little brake R&D project?  Brad
figures he could buy a rotor and prototype one hat for about $400.  That would
be $50 each if we could get 8 folks.  Brad also said that the full contribution
would apply toward future brake purchases through him.  Count me in as a
contributor!

Lets hear your feedback.  Is anybody interested?

- --
Forget world peace -- visualize using your turn signal!

Ken Middaugh            (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:10:17 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: In pursuit of bigger, better brakes!

Were definitely interested..but saving $$ for vacation coming up in 2 weeks.

After that..were in..cost will be no issue on the final product.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ken Middaugh [mailto:Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 4:58 PM
To: Team3S; Rich Merritt; John T. Christian; Errin Humphrey; Brad Bedell
Subject: Team3S: In pursuit of bigger, better brakes!



Hello folks,

Is anybody interested in improving their braking capability?

Brad Bedell has been wanting to develop a 2-piece rotor for his Porsche 'Big
Red' brake kit.  Originally he was interested in KVR built hats and KVR rotors
(probably Brembo blanks).  We are now both interested in Porsche's 322mm x 32mm
cross-drilled bi-turbo GT2 rotors and possibly Porsche's 330mm x 34mm GT3
rotors!  For hats, he may also have a local shop build them instead of KVR.  If
you take a look at the Mov'it kit at
http://www.ultimategarage.com/bigbrake1.html, they talk about the superiority of
Porsche rotors (metallurgy, dual vanes for cooling, 'cross-drilled' holes are
actually cast at 4mm instead of drilled at 8mm, etc.).  Also the GT2 rotors
should cost about $175 each off the shelf.  Therefore a set of hats and rotors
should cost less than the Bremsa's ($1000) that some of our European members are
using!  Also hats don't have to be replaced as often as rotors do so this brings
down the cost over 2-4 sets.

So, are any of you interested in helping fund a little brake R&D project?  Brad
figures he could buy a rotor and prototype one hat for about $400.  That would
be $50 each if we could get 8 folks.  Brad also said that the full contribution
would apply toward future brake purchases through him.  Count me in as a
contributor!

Lets hear your feedback.  Is anybody interested?

- --
Forget world peace -- visualize using your turn signal!

Ken Middaugh            (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 22:07:36 CDT
From: "Danny Erick" <ttstealth@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need help!

Alright. I finally got my car home so I can take a look at it now. Does
anyone have a page that shows me how to get to and chack the ECU? Or is it
the same as the DSM cars procedure that's at tmo.com? Also, when looking
under the dash today I noticed that there was no fuse in the large white
opening that is mounted on the right side of the fuse box that is to the
left of the drivers feet. Is this supposed to be empty??? Thanks guys, and
does anyone have any new opinions on the fact that one day the car runs fine
and the next it is back to backfiring etc.? Is that a good sign that the ECU
IS the problem or can mechanical problems have the same symptoms?

Dan Erick
92 Stealth R/T TT
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:18:16 EDT
From: Klusmanp@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Cosmetics

In a message dated 00-08-02 19:55:25 EDT, you write:

<< I KNOW that I'm not the only one with this problem- therefore I'll ask you
 all...
 Has anyone found a way to cosmeticly repair the black trim on the doors just
 below the side windows? My paint is so beautiful- but when you get close to
 the car- that peeling, fading, cracking black molding makes it look 7 years
 old. (Which it is- but why advertise) Because of the cracking, a quick layer
 of paint would not do the trick. Any wizzards have a good fix for this one?
 Thanks in advance.
 Ryan '93 VR4 >>



Once they are sun damaged I think they are done for.

I think they cost about $150/pair if I remember correctly. You could probably
shop around to find a better price.

They are not difficult to swap. Roll the windows down and remove the inner
door trim panel and you will get a better view of how they are held in place.
You may also have to remove the black triangular trim pieces adjacent to the
rear view mirrors. The trim strips are just held in place via friction. Start
at one end (probably the back end) and pry the old one off. When pressing the
new trim strips into place, make sure you've got them positioned correctly
fore/aft on the door - once they are on they don't want to move around.
You'll have to use quite a bit of force to get them seated - almost leaning
on them with some body weight (don't do this with the doors open - you'll put
a huge strain on the door hinges).

Paul Klusman

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 22:29:51 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re: In pursuit of bigger, better brakes!

>So, are any of you interested in helping fund a little brake R&D project?
Brad
>figures he could buy a rotor and prototype one hat for about $400.  That
would
>be $50 each if we could get 8 folks.  Brad also said that the full
contribution
>would apply toward future brake purchases through him.  Count me in as a
>contributor!

Count me in.
Where do I send the money? To you or Brad?
Rich/old poop


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 00:39:48 -0400
From: "Michael Booker" <mrbook@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need help!

Yes, go to www.tmo.com and follow the procedure

Matt



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 08:01:34 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: In pursuit of bigger, better brakes!

What advantage would this have over the now-available AP Racing 14" brakes,
with 6 piston calipers, and the rotors have aluminum hats?
?cost   (I think Stillen may have these AP now, there is Japan source at least)
?pad thickness
?pad area
?cost of pads
?cost of rotor replacements
?fit  (BFG makes GForce R1 roadrace tires in 18" now so next brake upgrade
I get, I'd like the B I G G E S T  rotors I  can find, and so far the AP take the
cake.  330mm Porsche rotors would be "only" 12.9"...and do NOT say
'12.9" is all we need, anything else is too much' because that is NOT true.
I want WAY MORE brake than I need.  Doubt that will ever happen  :)
- --well designed hats  are more than simple aluminum spacers with solid
bolts--they have a small amount of PLAY in those bolts to account for
heating/cooling and differences in expansion between aluminum and
iron.  KVR, Brembo, AP etc have alot of experience in the "school of
hard knocks" with FAILURES that they have corrected their hat
designs, so I'd tend to prefer a hat/rotor setup from an established
maker.  Nothing wrong with local fabricator in this case, if you
live next to Brembo or Baer etc; but brakes, hats, rotors DO fail
and when they do our LIVES are on the line (Road America gets
VERRRRY fast and if I lose a rotor, I'm dead  :(

That's my opinion,  anyway...
Jack Tertadian


Ken Middaugh wrote: snips

> Anybody interested in improving braking capability?
> Brad Bedell has been wanting to develop a 2-piece rotor for his Porsche 'Big
> Red' brake kit.  He was interested in KVR hats/rotors
> (probably Brembo blanks).  Now interested in Porsche's 322mm x 32mm
> cross-drilled bi-turbo GT2 rotors, possibly Porsche's 330mm x 34mm GT3
> rotors!  For hats, may have local shop build them instead of KVR.  If
> you take a look at the Mov'it kit
> http://www.ultimategarage.com/bigbrake1.html, they talk superiority of
> Porsche rotors (metallurgy, dual vane cooling, 'cross-drilled' holes are
> actually cast at 4mm instead of drilled at 8mm, etc.).  GT2 rotors
> cost $175 each.  Therefore set of hat/rotors
> cost less than Bremsa's $1000 some European members are
> using!  Also hats don't have to be replaced as often as rotors do so this brings
> down cost.

> Any of you interested in helping fund brake R&D project?  Brad
> figures he could buy rotor, prototype one hat for $400.
> $50 each if we get 8 folks.  Brad said the full contribution
> would apply toward future brake purchase from him.
> Is anybody interested?
> Ken Middaugh


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:27:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need help!

Hi Dan,

You should get a manual if you plan on messing with the ECU. The
manuals have indispensible info regarding pin assignments and proper
checking of values using the pins. That white thing next to the fuse
box is the diagnostic port. Dataloggers plug into it. Hard to tell on
the backfiring issue.

Jeff Lucius
Stealth 316
  --> http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/
The new 3/S Backup CD Homepage
  --> http://www.manualcd.com/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Erick" <ttstealth@hotmail.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need help!

Alright. I finally got my car home so I can take a look at it now.
Does  anyone have a page that shows me how to get to and chack the
ECU? Or is it the same as the DSM cars procedure that's at tmo.com?
Also, when looking under the dash today I noticed that there was no
fuse in the large white opening that is mounted on the right side of
the fuse box that is to the left of the drivers feet. Is this
supposed to be empty??? Thanks guys, and does anyone have any new
opinions on the fact that one day the car runs fine and the next it
is back to backfiring etc.? Is that a good sign that the ECU IS the
problem or can mechanical problems have the same symptoms?

Dan Erick
92 Stealth R/T TT


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 10:10:09 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: In pursuit of bigger, better brakes!

The advantage of course is cost.  If cost is no object, then there are no doubt
better brake kits available in the $3K-$8K range.  Brad is trying to improve his
current kit by offering an excellent 2-piece rotor but still keep the cost in
the, I'm guessing for the GT2 rotors, $2100 range!  It won't be the absolute
best brake kit available, but it will probably be the best bang-for-the-buck
brake kit for our cars, about the same price as the Stillen/Brembo kit that uses
the not-so-great rotors and has inferior calipers (apologies to owners of this
kit :)).

Brad plans to have the hats designed by a brake company (KVR maybe??).  He
hasn't decided who will do the fabrication yet.  You are absolutely correct in
that we don't want to risk our lives on an inferior hat just to save $100.
Mov'it's hats are 7075 aircraft aluminum and cost $200 each.  I hope Brad will
develop and offer something comparible.  Also, one of our members has
tentatively offered his CNC expertise and equipment as well, maybe for
prototyping and fitting, but not necessarily for production.

If you are really serious in wanting the biggest possible brakes and you can
afford them, there is something bigger that the AP 14".  Maybe Brad can
investigate a kit using Porsche Motorsports GT2 endurance 380mm (14.9"!) rotors
and GT3 calipers (see the Mov'it Terminator kit, ~$5K).  I wonder which braking
system would be better, 6-piston calipers with 14" rotors, or 4-piston calipers
with 14.9" rotors.

If wishes were Porsches, then beggars would drive ;)
Regards,
Ken

xwing wrote:
>
> What advantage would this have over the now-available AP Racing 14" brakes,
> with 6 piston calipers, and the rotors have aluminum hats?
> ?cost   (I think Stillen may have these AP now, there is Japan source at least)
> ?pad thickness
> ?pad area
> ?cost of pads
> ?cost of rotor replacements
> ?fit  (BFG makes GForce R1 roadrace tires in 18" now so next brake upgrade
> I get, I'd like the B I G G E S T  rotors I  can find, and so far the AP take the
> cake.  330mm Porsche rotors would be "only" 12.9"...and do NOT say
> '12.9" is all we need, anything else is too much' because that is NOT true.
> I want WAY MORE brake than I need.  Doubt that will ever happen  :)
> --well designed hats  are more than simple aluminum spacers with solid
> bolts--they have a small amount of PLAY in those bolts to account for
> heating/cooling and differences in expansion between aluminum and
> iron.  KVR, Brembo, AP etc have alot of experience in the "school of
> hard knocks" with FAILURES that they have corrected their hat
> designs, so I'd tend to prefer a hat/rotor setup from an established
> maker.  Nothing wrong with local fabricator in this case, if you
> live next to Brembo or Baer etc; but brakes, hats, rotors DO fail
> and when they do our LIVES are on the line (Road America gets
> VERRRRY fast and if I lose a rotor, I'm dead  :(
>
> That's my opinion,  anyway...
> Jack Tertadian
>
> Ken Middaugh wrote: snips
>
> > Anybody interested in improving braking capability?
> > Brad Bedell has been wanting to develop a 2-piece rotor for his Porsche 'Big
> > Red' brake kit.  He was interested in KVR hats/rotors
> > (probably Brembo blanks).  Now interested in Porsche's 322mm x 32mm
> > cross-drilled bi-turbo GT2 rotors, possibly Porsche's 330mm x 34mm GT3
> > rotors!  For hats, may have local shop build them instead of KVR.  If
> > you take a look at the Mov'it kit
> > http://www.ultimategarage.com/bigbrake1.html, they talk superiority of
> > Porsche rotors (metallurgy, dual vane cooling, 'cross-drilled' holes are
> > actually cast at 4mm instead of drilled at 8mm, etc.).  GT2 rotors
> > cost $175 each.  Therefore set of hat/rotors
> > cost less than Bremsa's $1000 some European members are
> > using!  Also hats don't have to be replaced as often as rotors do so this brings
> > down cost.
>
> > Any of you interested in helping fund brake R&D project?  Brad
> > figures he could buy rotor, prototype one hat for $400.
> > $50 each if we get 8 folks.  Brad said the full contribution
> > would apply toward future brake purchase from him.
> > Is anybody interested?
> > Ken Middaugh

- --
Forget world peace -- visualize using your turn signal!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 21:23:34 EDT
From: AABOMB1@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Power Antenna

Hello list members:

A few days ago I noticed that my power antenna got stuck on it's way down. I
took a look at the antenna, and I noticed a lot of dark black liquid
(possibly some kind of greese) around the joints of the antenna - there was
quite a thick layer which seemed to have formed in less than a couple of
hours.

I pulled out the antenna and it I could tell that a couple of the joints were
too sticky for the antenna motor to push. I tried some standard lubricants on
the antenna (like WD-40) but it didn't help so I bought a new antenna.

I put the new antenna in and it seemed to work fine a few of times but then
it stopped going down all the way - it just stops after it gets about 90% of
the way down. I noticed that the black greese-like substance had rubbed off
on the plastic rack (the part the motor pulls on) of the new antenna as well
- - but it didn't spread anywhere on the antenna.

One thing that I found odd is that the plastic rack on the new antenna is a
lot longer than the one on the old antenna. I thought that maybe a peice
broke off of the old antenna and fell in the motor, but the motor doesn't
seem to be giving me any problems so that doesn't seem likely. Plus that
doesn't explain why that black greese appeared on the joints of the old
antenna so suddenly.

I would appreciate it if someone could tell me where this black greese is
coming from, if I should examine the antenna motor (I didn't take the time to
remove all those panels to examine the motor because it seems to be
functioning normally), and of course how I can fix this problem.

Thanks!



AA

- -------------------
E-mail: aabomb@thepentagon.com <or> aabomb1@aol.com
Fax: (707) 982-8817 [In The United States]

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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