team3s
Sunday, July 30
2000
Volume 01 : Number
219
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:43:14 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4
> It's not just understeer or
push... it's the car clawing out of turns on
> the front wheels, chewing
the beejeesuz out of the front tires. If we
could
> get some RWD bias,
maybe it would be more of an AWD car instead of a FWD
> when it's being
driven hard.
> What about the RWD bias they dial into our cars in Japan?
How do we do
that
> here? Is it part of the transmission or is it an
external adjustment?
Our cars here in the States are also biased slightly
towards RWD. In wet
weather (or snow), I always spin the rears before
the fronts. I think you
are seeing more FWD behavior if your front
tires are already working hard on
cornering and you apply throttle it is
going to take less to break the front
tires loose than the rear tires,
resulting in an FWD feel.
Probably the easiest way to get more oversteer
(other than the front end
track correction with spacers) is to increase the
diameter of the rear sway
bar. I haven't looked to see if anyone makes
one for VR4's yet, but on my
'93 Eclipse GSX it made a radical difference on
the autocross course by
increasing the rear bar. I also replaced all
the suspension bushings
(including the swaybar bushings) with Energy
Suspension polyurethane
bushings which made the car much more reactive to
steering inputs, as well
as giving more "feel" to cornering.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 16:23:05
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4
> Also, a material that won't flex
as much will help. The stock driveshaft
> will flex a little before
the torque is applied to the rear axles. With a
> stiffer
driveshaft, the torque will be transferred immediately. I've
>
noticed a huge difference first hand on mountain bikes with wheels,
cranks
> and frames.
Unfortunately that means that the transmission
and transfer case need to
absorb more of that twisting energy, and as most of
us are aware - those
parts aren't particularly strong (or cheap). The
torque will get transfered
quicker, but with an increase of opposing force on
both ends of the system.
Opposing force probably isn't the right choice of
words, but I think I'm
getting my point across.
- ---
What are you
talking about?
The transmission and Xfer case come before the
driveshaft..they will see no more
load, than they do with stock
parts.
THOSE parts deliver force if lets say 100 units, the stock shaft
behind that
takes 20 parts to accelerate, leaving 80 to the
wheels.
Now lets lighten that up and only consume 10
parts...
Follow?
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 01:56:16
GMT
From: "Ryan Meador" <
captainrye@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Turbo pressure only under load...
Can someone explain the physics
behind the reason that a turbo will not
boost positive pressure unless under
load? At 6k RPM, am I actually not
creating enough exhaust to produce
positive boost pressure??? Are my waste
gates opened until load is applied?
Just don't get
it...
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:15:35
-0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Turbo pressure only under load...
Boost is actually a measure
of backpressure. When there is no load on the
engine, the engine
can pump all the air the turbos can produce.
The opposite is true when
you load the engine.
Brad
Check out my online store at:
http://www.turboimports.comCheck out
my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Ryan Meador
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 8:56 PM
To:
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Turbo pressure only under load...
Can someone explain the physics
behind the reason that a turbo will not
boost positive pressure unless under
load? At 6k RPM, am I actually not
creating enough exhaust to produce
positive boost pressure??? Are my waste
gates opened until load is applied?
Just don't get
it...
________________________________________________________________________
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Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:12:21
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Turbo pressure only under load...
A turbo works off of airflow
and air density.
The wastegates also will open at certain
times.
I thik you may mean - why will turbos not create boost when
you rev it from
a standstill, and no load. (neutral)
They simply don;t
have time to spool when you floor it. In order to get max
boost from a
turbo, you have to have it floored - gives you the most air and
fuel (fuel is
very important) in the engine to combust. With even a small
turbo, most
cars simply out accelerate the rate at which the turbo creates
boost.
In other words, the engines RPM's climb faster than the turbo can
spool
up. And turbos only work when accelerating. If you hold at a
steady
engine RPM, most turbos tend to fall off a little, and hold a steady
rpm.
To do this doesn;t require much fuel, when compared to
accelerating,
therefore, not very much boost is produced..
-
-Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Ryan Meador
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 8:56 PM
To:
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Turbo pressure only under load...
Can someone explain the
physics behind the reason that a turbo will not
boost positive pressure
unless under load? At 6k RPM, am I actually not
creating enough exhaust to
produce positive boost pressure??? Are my waste
gates opened until load is
applied? Just don't get
it...
________________________________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:37:21
-0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Turbo pressure only under load...
You can sit at the line in neutral and
rev the engine of a stock VR4 all day
and never make more than a few pounds
boost. Passenger vehicle systems are
typically not designed to produce
boost unless under load. The idea is that
remain fuel economical with a
light foot, make tons more power with a heavy
foot.
There are turbo
system designs which operate under constant positive
manifold pressure (some
diesel commercial truck systems work this way) which
is a function of the
design of the entire system.
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
>
> A turbo works off of airflow and air
density.
>
> The wastegates also will open at certain
times.
>
>
> I thik you may mean - why will turbos not create
boost when you
> rev it from
> a standstill, and no load.
(neutral)
>
> They simply don;t have time to spool when you floor
it. In order
> to get max
> boost from a turbo, you have to
have it floored - gives you the
> most air and
> fuel (fuel is very
important) in the engine to combust. With even a small
> turbo, most
cars simply out accelerate the rate at which the turbo creates
>
boost. In other words, the engines RPM's climb faster than the turbo
can
> spool up. And turbos only work when accelerating. If you
hold
> at a steady
> engine RPM, most turbos tend to fall off a
little, and hold a steady rpm.
> To do this doesn;t require much fuel,
when compared to accelerating,
> therefore, not very much boost is
produced..
>
> -Cody
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:11:23
-0700
From: "Murat Okcuoglu" <
murat@dellnet.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Front/rear bias
Front / rear bias is the function of the center
differential.
it is possible to make center differentials of different
ratios, most rally
cars use 33/66 for rear bias, which is my
preference.
making a change is not trivial we are stuck with what
we got. a small
chance is if the center diff of a 5 spd will fit a 6
spt.
othervise, a solution involves the expense of designing and
making an all
new planetery gear center differential. with the limited market
potential,
it is not feasible.
Can someone verify the different center
diff bias for jap cars?
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:27:17
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Allour struts the same?
I asked my Mitsu dealer if struts off a
'92 would fit a 94, and he says
they are different parts numbers (they
changed somewhere in mid 94, so
everything from 91-941/2 is one part number
and everything beyond 94 1/2 is
another part number).
Question:
Will the same struts fit all cars? What's different?
Reason for asking: I
need a set of donor struts to send to Penske to see if
we can get racing
shocks installed (since we can't buy GABs any more, John
Davidson offered me
a set off a 92, but the numbers are different.
Rich/old
poop
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:21:41
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: sway bars and bushings
>Probably the easiest way to get
more oversteer (other than the front end
>track correction with spacers)
is to increase the diameter of the rear sway
>bar. I haven't looked
to see if anyone makes one for VR4's yet...
Everybody agree with this? If
so, where can I get a bigger rear sway bar?
but on my
>'93
Eclipse GSX it made a radical difference on the autocross course
by
>increasing the rear bar. I also replaced all the suspension
bushings
>(including the swaybar bushings) with Energy Suspension
polyurethane
>bushings which made the car much more reactive to steering
inputs, as well
>as giving more "feel" to cornering.
There's
probably no kit for this. So, gang, how would you go about
installing
polyurethane bushings? Take off the stock and rummage around at
a
polyurethane bushing store looking for the right ones?
Rich/old
poop
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:57:15
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4
> What are you talking
about?
> The transmission and Xfer case come before the driveshaft..they
will see
no more
> load, than they do with stock parts.
> THOSE
parts deliver force if lets say 100 units, the stock shaft behind
> that
takes 20 parts to accelerate, leaving 80 to the wheels.
> Now lets
lighten that up and only consume 10 parts...
> Follow?
Sure, I
follow... However what I was trying to say is that the stock
driveshaft
has a number of parts which contribute to allowing some of the
initial
twisting shock to be absorbed by the driveshaft - sort of a rubber
band
effect. If you replace it with a 1-piece unit I would think that
the
transmission and transfer case would need to take on some of that
force.
I'm not talking about while the car is in motion, but rather when
trying to
get an initial launch from a stop where acceleration is toughest on
the car.
In road racing or street driving it probably wouldn't make any
difference
(other than allowing quicker acceleration), but for a drag racing
car it
might actually be detrimental during a severe launch. Having a
weak
driveline like we do, I'd want to be conservative on modifications to it
and
make sure it doesn't actually make a bad situation worse.
Just
speculating... Obviously reducing reciprocating mass is beneficial
from
an acceleration standpoint in any circumstance.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 00:03:56
-0400
From: "Michael" <
mdorsey@mindspring.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Front/rear bias
If the center diff is the only piece making
the difference in front/rear
bias and the Japanese cars already have the rear
bias, wouldn't we be able
to simply drop the Japanese center diff in our
cars? I am way out of my
league here, but I would think it just drop in
without any other serious
modification?
Michael
98 VR4
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Murat Okcuoglu
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 23:11
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
Merritt
Subject: Team3S: Front/rear bias
Front / rear bias is the
function of the center differential.
it is possible to make center
differentials of different ratios, most rally
cars use 33/66 for rear bias,
which is my preference.
making a change is not trivial we are stuck
with what we got. a small
chance is if the center diff of a 5 spd will fit a
6 spt.
othervise, a solution involves the expense of designing and
making an all
new planetery gear center differential. with the limited market
potential,
it is not feasible.
Can someone verify the different center
diff bias for jap cars?
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:09:27
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: sway bars and bushings
Yes, its one of the many ways to
increase oversteer.
Not aware of any bar you can get this -year-..as
addco wont make em up
with less than 10 orders. Last I called them they
had 1 order.
-
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- -------------------------------------------------------------
On
Sun, 30 Jul 2000, Merritt wrote:
> >Probably the easiest way to get
more oversteer (other than the front end
> >track correction with
spacers) is to increase the diameter of the rear sway
> >bar. I
haven't looked to see if anyone makes one for VR4's yet...
>
>
Everybody agree with this? If so, where can I get a bigger rear sway
bar?
>
>
> but on my
> >'93 Eclipse GSX it made a
radical difference on the autocross course by
> >increasing the rear
bar. I also replaced all the suspension bushings
> >(including
the swaybar bushings) with Energy Suspension polyurethane
> >bushings
which made the car much more reactive to steering inputs, as well
> >as
giving more "feel" to cornering.
>
> There's probably no kit for
this. So, gang, how would you go about
> installing polyurethane bushings?
Take off the stock and rummage around at
> a polyurethane bushing store
looking for the right ones?
>
> Rich/old poop
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:11:00
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4
Nah..it wont shock anything more
than it already is. The forward
drivetrain is already taking the
initial load/shock before anything
begins to twist some..
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
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Speedtoys.com/net/org Email/WWW account at: |
|
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preferred name and |
| password (hey..its free, no
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|
|
plus a 40Mb quota to
boot).
|
- -------------------------------------------------------------
On
Sun, 30 Jul 2000, Jannusch, Matt wrote:
> > What are you talking
about?
> > The transmission and Xfer case come before the
driveshaft..they will see
> no more
> > load, than they do with
stock parts.
> > THOSE parts deliver force if lets say 100 units, the
stock shaft behind
> > that takes 20 parts to accelerate, leaving 80 to
the wheels.
>
> > Now lets lighten that up and only consume 10
parts...
>
> > Follow?
>
> Sure, I follow...
However what I was trying to say is that the stock
> driveshaft has a
number of parts which contribute to allowing some of the
> initial
twisting shock to be absorbed by the driveshaft - sort of a rubber
> band
effect. If you replace it with a 1-piece unit I would think that
the
> transmission and transfer case would need to take on some of that
force.
> I'm not talking about while the car is in motion, but rather when
trying to
> get an initial launch from a stop where acceleration is
toughest on the car.
> In road racing or street driving it probably
wouldn't make any difference
> (other than allowing quicker acceleration),
but for a drag racing car it
> might actually be detrimental during a
severe launch. Having a weak
> driveline like we do, I'd want to be
conservative on modifications to it and
> make sure it doesn't actually
make a bad situation worse.
>
> Just speculating... Obviously
reducing reciprocating mass is beneficial
> from an acceleration
standpoint in any circumstance.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:11:43
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Front/rear bias
Lets all keep in mind, that the bias still
doesnt overcome the built-in
limitations the narrow front track gives
us.
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
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|
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| password (hey..its free, no
fancy CGI passwd thingie here
|
|
plus a 40Mb quota to
boot).
|
- -------------------------------------------------------------
On
Mon, 31 Jul 2000, Michael wrote:
> If the center diff is the only
piece making the difference in front/rear
> bias and the Japanese cars
already have the rear bias, wouldn't we be able
> to simply drop the
Japanese center diff in our cars? I am way out of my
> league here,
but I would think it just drop in without any other serious
>
modification?
>
> Michael
> 98 VR4
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Murat Okcuoglu
> Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 23:11
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
Merritt
> Subject: Team3S: Front/rear bias
>
>
> Front
/ rear bias is the function of the center differential.
>
> it is
possible to make center differentials of different ratios, most rally
>
cars use 33/66 for rear bias, which is my preference.
>
> making a
change is not trivial we are stuck with what we got. a small
>
chance is if the center diff of a 5 spd will fit a 6 spt.
>
>
othervise, a solution involves the expense of designing and making an
all
> new planetery gear center differential. with the limited market
potential,
> it is not feasible.
>
> Can someone verify the
different center diff bias for jap cars?
>
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 00:11:38
-0400
From: "Michael" <
mdorsey@mindspring.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4
The power is already being pushed
through the transfer case, rather than the
drive-shaft absorbing some.
It will transfer it to the wheels. The only
reason I would expect an
increase in force on the transfer case would be if
the wheels can't
dissappate the energy by either moving the car or
breaking
free.
Michael
98 VR4
Once again, my posts are based
on my logic and speculation, not proven fact.
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Jannusch, Matt
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 23:57
To:
'jeff.mohler@netapp.com';
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4
> What are you talking
about?
> The transmission and Xfer case come before the driveshaft..they
will see
no more
> load, than they do with stock parts.
> THOSE
parts deliver force if lets say 100 units, the stock shaft behind
> that
takes 20 parts to accelerate, leaving 80 to the wheels.
> Now lets
lighten that up and only consume 10 parts...
> Follow?
Sure, I
follow... However what I was trying to say is that the stock
driveshaft
has a number of parts which contribute to allowing some of the
initial
twisting shock to be absorbed by the driveshaft - sort of a rubber
band
effect. If you replace it with a 1-piece unit I would think that
the
transmission and transfer case would need to take on some of that
force.
I'm not talking about while the car is in motion, but rather when
trying to
get an initial launch from a stop where acceleration is toughest on
the car.
In road racing or street driving it probably wouldn't make any
difference
(other than allowing quicker acceleration), but for a drag racing
car it
might actually be detrimental during a severe launch. Having a
weak
driveline like we do, I'd want to be conservative on modifications to it
and
make sure it doesn't actually make a bad situation worse.
Just
speculating... Obviously reducing reciprocating mass is beneficial
from
an acceleration standpoint in any circumstance.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:20:49
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: sway bars and bushings
> There's probably no kit for this.
So, gang, how would you go about
> installing polyurethane bushings? Take
off the stock and rummage around at
> a polyurethane bushing store looking
for the right ones?
I'm looking at an Energy Suspension catalog right now
and the only
Mitsubishi applications they have listed are for Eclipses.
There are many
similarities between the Eclipse suspension setup and our
cars, so at least
some of the bushings may fit.
A quick look in the
3/S service manuals makes me think the following have a
chance of
fitting:
Front A-Arm front and rear mount bushings
Front sway bar
bushings
Upper/lower trailing arms on rear suspension
Rear swaybar endlink
bushings (almost certain to fit)
Rear swaybar mount bushings
I haven't
tried/verified any of these, however the pictures in the service
manuals
between a '91 3000GT VR4 and a 1G Eclipse GSX ('90-94) are
visually
identical.
If you felt lucky and wanted to try fitting
them, here are the part numbers:
Front End Control Arm Bushing Set:
5-3108 ($40)
Rear End Control Arm Bushing Set: 5-3113
($30)
Front Sway Bar Frame Bushings:
5-5106 ($15)
(20mm bar + end link bushings)
Rear Sway Bar
Frame Bushings: 5-5108 ($20)
(20mm bar + end link bushings)
Alamo Motorsports carries them all, and
the prices shown are theirs.
http://www.alamomotorsports.comHmmm....
I wonder if a DSM swaybar would fit as well.... Hmmmmmmm..
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:44:03
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: sway bars and bushings
>If you felt lucky and wanted to
try fitting them, here are the part numbers:
>
Thanks for the effort,
but I don't want to gamble $105 (plus shipping) just
to
experiment.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:47:51
-0700
From: "Bbizo" <
bbizo@telisphere.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Turbo pressure only under load...
The best case scenario for
creating boost in a no load condition is sitting
there bouncing off the rev
limiter. In that case, your engine is probably
actually firing 5% of the
time(just enough to keep it at limit). With the
engine only producing
slightly more than 5% of its normally apirated
exhaust(3% maximum exhaust),
there is not near enough volume flow on the
turbine side of the turbo to
obtain sufficient speed to produce appreciable
boost from the compressor side
of the turbo. As soon as the engine is under
load (you start firing 100% of
the time and the butterfly valve is open),
you start producing substantially
more exhaust gas and the turbine starts
spooling up. The ideal situation
would be a way to load the engine while
stationary, simular to power braking
in circuit racing.
Bob Bissonette
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 00:50:06
-0400
From: "Michael" <
mdorsey@mindspring.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Turbo pressure only under load...
How does the engine
determine that there is load so that it can fire more
often? I'm
assuming fire means spark.
In not firing all the time, does that mean
there are totally wasted strokes
when the engine is not under a load?
If that is the case, do the injectors
also not "fire"?
Michael -
thirsty for knowledge
98 VR4
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Bbizo
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 0:48
To:
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Turbo pressure only under load...
The best case scenario
for creating boost in a no load condition is sitting
there bouncing off the
rev limiter. In that case, your engine is probably
actually firing 5% of the
time(just enough to keep it at limit). With the
engine only producing
slightly more than 5% of its normally apirated
exhaust(3% maximum exhaust),
there is not near enough volume flow on the
turbine side of the turbo to
obtain sufficient speed to produce appreciable
boost from the compressor side
of the turbo. As soon as the engine is under
load (you start firing 100% of
the time and the butterfly valve is open),
you start producing substantially
more exhaust gas and the turbine starts
spooling up. The ideal situation
would be a way to load the engine while
stationary, simular to power braking
in circuit racing.
Bob Bissonette
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:51:04
CDT
From: "Danny Erick" <
ttstealth@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Need help! (Previously "Check Engine light coming on")
OK guys,
I'm getting desperate! I got new plugs and wires this week as it
was
suggested but the car has gotten worse =( It's started backfiring really
bad
now. The tach jumps all over, sometimes falling to 100 RPMs and almost
dieing. When cruising sometime the tach will jump back and forth even though
you can hear that the engine speed isn't changing and sometimes the car will
still hesitate. The check engine light comes on but USUALLY shuts back off
when I give it some gas. Once it seemed to get worse as I started running
low on fuel. It's like the car can't make up it's mind. lol I'm stumped and
I really need transportation to work. One day it seems to run fine and the
next day I can't even use the Stealth. It's kinda off and on. Could the ECU
be going bad? Bad fuel pump? Coil? I'm not too mechanically inclined and I
sure don't have the cash to keep fixing whatever I THINK the problem is. I
need to get the problem pinpointed but I'm not sure how. Can anyone help
me???
Thanks for all the help.
Dan Erick
92 Stealth R/T
TT
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Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:57:14
-0700
From: "Bbizo" <
bbizo@telisphere.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4
Guys -
I just ran quick
numbers on the whole drive shaft question. The mass moment
of inertia of the
drive shaft vs. the accelerated mass of the car corrected
for differential
gear ratio and tire diameter yields the following - the
energy require to
accelerate the drive shaft is ~.005% (.00005) at most.
What I'm saying is
that a lighter drive shaft will not create an appreciable
difference in your
torque bias, or anything else.
Bob Bissonette
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:21:19
-0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4
Its all good thoughts..honest,
but the car will accelerate before it breaks
anything.
The breakage in
the drivetrain on our cars, is shock induced mostly, not overall
HP..unless
youget some -really- ugly high numbers IMHO
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Michael [
mailto:mdorsey@mindspring.com]
Sent:
Sunday, July 30, 2000 9:12 PM
To:
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4
The power is already being
pushed through the transfer case, rather than the
drive-shaft absorbing
some. It will transfer it to the wheels. The only
reason I would
expect an increase in force on the transfer case would be if
the wheels can't
dissappate the energy by either moving the car or
breaking
free.
Michael
98 VR4
Once again, my posts are based
on my logic and speculation, not proven fact.
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Jannusch, Matt
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 23:57
To:
'jeff.mohler@netapp.com';
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4
> What are you talking
about?
> The transmission and Xfer case come before the driveshaft..they
will see
no more
> load, than they do with stock parts.
> THOSE
parts deliver force if lets say 100 units, the stock shaft behind
> that
takes 20 parts to accelerate, leaving 80 to the wheels.
> Now lets
lighten that up and only consume 10 parts...
> Follow?
Sure, I
follow... However what I was trying to say is that the stock
driveshaft
has a number of parts which contribute to allowing some of the
initial
twisting shock to be absorbed by the driveshaft - sort of a rubber
band
effect. If you replace it with a 1-piece unit I would think that
the
transmission and transfer case would need to take on some of that
force.
I'm not talking about while the car is in motion, but rather when
trying to
get an initial launch from a stop where acceleration is toughest on
the car.
In road racing or street driving it probably wouldn't make any
difference
(other than allowing quicker acceleration), but for a drag racing
car it
might actually be detrimental during a severe launch. Having a
weak
driveline like we do, I'd want to be conservative on modifications to it
and
make sure it doesn't actually make a bad situation worse.
Just
speculating... Obviously reducing reciprocating mass is beneficial
from
an acceleration standpoint in any circumstance.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:24:04
-0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4
Funny how on paper that comes
out...
In my RWD car, I was able to deliver 38 more FtLbs of torque, and
11 more Hp.
>From a 33lb shaft to a 12lb shaft.
Whats it say on
paper about that?
It makes..a difference.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Bbizo [
mailto:bbizo@telisphere.com]
Sent:
Sunday, July 30, 2000 9:57 PM
To:
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4
Guys -
I just ran
quick numbers on the whole drive shaft question. The mass moment
of inertia
of the drive shaft vs. the accelerated mass of the car corrected
for
differential gear ratio and tire diameter yields the following - the
energy
require to accelerate the drive shaft is ~.005% (.00005) at most.
What I'm
saying is that a lighter drive shaft will not create an
appreciable
difference in your torque bias, or anything else.
Bob
Bissonette
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:37:41
-0700
From: "Bbizo" <
bbizo@telisphere.com>
Subject: Fw:
Team3S: Turbo pressure only under load...
> How does the engine
determine that there is load so that it can fire more
> often? I'm
assuming fire means spark.
>
> In not firing all the time, does that
mean there are totally wasted
> strokes
> when the engine is not
under a load? If that is the case, do the
injectors
> also not
"fire"?
>
> Michael - thirsty for knowledge
> 98
VR4
The ECU really doesn't know whether the engine is under load or not,
it
simply stops firing injectors when the engine is over a certain RPM
(rev
limit). The engine will go over, the injectors will stop injecting,
the
engine will slow slightly, a couple injectors will fire (pushing the
engine
back over the limit), and the cycle continues - very quickly. The
bottom
line is, while the injectors may fire a couple times, it will skip
many
shots waiting for the engine to slow.
Bob
Bissonette
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:39:08
-0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Turbo pressure only under load...
Actually..where I think
your math might not catch the driveshaft power
increase..is in
spoolup.
Actuall weights/calculations probly dont take into effect the
huge bursts in
power created during spoolup..relative to what the differences
might be at max
power..etc.
THATS where light hardware pays
off.
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 01:46:17
-0400
From: "Michael" <
mdorsey@mindspring.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Turbo pressure only under load...
Makes perfect sense.
Newton's 2nd law. The greater the mass (of the object
being
accelerated) the greater the amount of force needed (to accelerate
the
object).
Michael
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Mohler, Jeff
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 1:39
To: 'Bbizo';
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Turbo pressure only under load...
Actually..where I think
your math might not catch the driveshaft power
increase..is in
spoolup.
Actuall weights/calculations probly dont take into effect the
huge bursts in
power created during spoolup..relative to what the differences
might be at
max
power..etc.
THATS where light hardware pays
off.
*** Info:
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***
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***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#219
*********************