team3s             Saturday, July 29 2000             Volume 01 : Number 217




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:17:28 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Viper vs. 3000GT VR-4 @ Thunderhill

>. I was able to throttle steer the VR-4 all the way around turn 2.
>There is no way in hell I can do that with the Viper. Too much damn torque.
>I have to keep the throttle in a steady state. No off throttle... no on
>throttle. Once the Viper driver learns this, he can smoke virtually anything
>else on the track. <snip>

Well, there are always the AWD Porsche TTs, but you're right -- a Viper can
be virtually unbeatable.

>Smoothness is nowhere nearly as important in the VR-4. It is VERY forgiving.
>You take the corner too fast? Just ease off the throttle... the front wheels
>will bite and rescue you from understeer. The back end is coming around?
>Just accelerate and the back snaps into place.

Few people understand this. A VR4 is a fabulous driver school car because
it's so forgiving.
>
> With the Viper, the accelerator is a freakin on/off switch. It's all
>or nothing baby. The VR-4 is all about control. Less performance, but easier
>to tame. My grandma could lap Porsche Boxsters in my VR-4.

My granny couldn't, but otherwise I agree with everything you say.
>
>
Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:09:52 EDT
From: Zeoswolf@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: (NEW!!)Valve/cam timing, is that the problem?

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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:57:46 EDT
Subject: Team3S: Valve/cam timing, is that the problem?(new)
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
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ok here it is,
    i DID take it back to the dealership this past tuesday and they said they
hooked it up to the computer and it said everything was fine.  i asked them
if they actually physically looked at the marks and they told me no becuase
it would have been another 5 hour job.  i did this myself in 20 minutes.  but
let me ask this, like i said i didnt line the markings up perfectly cuz i
didnt have the time so i just counted the teeth on the cam sprocket from mark
to mark.  the mark on the cam sprockets for the two front most sprockets were
exactically 5 teeth from the markings on the engine itself.  the two rear
markings on the cam sprockets were 4 teeth from the markings on the engine. 
i actually thought about it and figured this was an easier way to describe
it.. my first post it was confusing about how i said this.  now, one you told
me to line them perfectly and then look at them, others have not.  is this an
accurate way to check these markings by counting teeth or will they be off
every time with this method?  and if this is the a correct way to check them,
and my cam timing is INFACT off.. would this give me the power loss i am
experiencing and the wierd occurance of getting MORE punch at half throttle
then with the pedal to the floor??  THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP ON THIS!!!!!

james
94R/T

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

- --part1_a4.7b6e61e.26b2fc40_boundary--

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:19:45 +0100
From: Gordon Tyrrell <gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Viper vs. 3000GT VR-4 @ Thunderhill

Your granny would need to seek help if she couldn't beat a boxster in a
VR4 :)

They are a mid 6secs to 60 car with a professional driver and nowhere
near the grip of the VR4.

Mind you mine is sick now so I'd need to work at it.


Merritt wrote:
>
> >. I was able to throttle steer the VR-4 all the way around turn 2.
> >There is no way in hell I can do that with the Viper. Too much damn torque.
> >I have to keep the throttle in a steady state. No off throttle... no on
> >throttle. Once the Viper driver learns this, he can smoke virtually anything
> >else on the track. <snip>
>
> Well, there are always the AWD Porsche TTs, but you're right -- a Viper can
> be virtually unbeatable.
>
> >Smoothness is nowhere nearly as important in the VR-4. It is VERY forgiving.
> >You take the corner too fast? Just ease off the throttle... the front wheels
> >will bite and rescue you from understeer. The back end is coming around?
> >Just accelerate and the back snaps into place.
>
> Few people understand this. A VR4 is a fabulous driver school car because
> it's so forgiving.
> >
> >       With the Viper, the accelerator is a freakin on/off switch. It's all
> >or nothing baby. The VR-4 is all about control. Less performance, but easier
> >to tame. My grandma could lap Porsche Boxsters in my VR-4.
>
> My granny couldn't, but otherwise I agree with everything you say.
> >
> >
> Rich/old poop
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:27:32 PDT
From: "Ryan Meador" <captainrye@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: (NEW!!)Valve/cam timing, is that the problem?

I know you're concentrating on cam adjustments right now- but here's a
thought. I had the same symptoms when I bought my '93 VR4 a couple months
back. At half throttle it pulled fairly hard but any more than that almost
felt like the timing was retarding and I lost major power. It idled fine and
ran fine as long as I didn't romp on it. The problem ended up being a very
simple vacume leak. The hose to my EGR was pulled off but not plugged. Once
I popped it back on- WHAM- the car ran  GREAT and pulled very hard (like it
is supposed to). So, maybe you could listen for hissing and visually inspect
the vacume lines  and find a vacume leak. I'm not sure if the dealer's
diagnosing machine would have detected that, but wouldn't it be great if
that were the only problem!? I know I was ecstatic when I found my leak...
Ryan '93 VR4


- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Zeoswolf@aol.com
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: (NEW!!)Valve/cam timing, is that the problem?
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:09:52 EDT


<< message3.txt >>

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 12:35:19 EDT
From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: OT: Arrow Tire + 17" rechroming -resolution-

Hi folks!


   I know that many of you here were interested in the outcome of my
dealings with Arrow Tire&Wheel of Upland, CA (email: arrowtire@msn.com). 
Here is the the summary:

Last year, I purchased a set of rechromed 17" VR-4 wheels.  This spring, I
pulled the wheels out of winter storage to discover some chrome peel on the
wheels.  So, I sent them back, since the chroming was guaranteed for 1 year.
It took almost a full month from the time the wheels left my house for them
to return.  This includes 10 days worth of shipping time, however.

Arrow Tire was very good about the entire deal, except for a single problem.
  One of the wheels made brief contact with a curb, resulting in about 1" of
rash on the outer rim.  Since the wheel was now "damaged", they would not
honor the warranty on the chrome, even though it was obvious the chrome peel
was not due to the damage at all...
I was quite bothered about this issue, especially when they fixed the wheels
and presented me with a bill before consulting me on the matter.  However,
Brian at Arrow Tire was flexible and we agreed on a payment resolution (I
paid return shipping, and they paid for the repair of the 4th wheel).

The wheels are back, and look better now than they did the first time I
received them.

So, in conclusion, I think I would still recommend their service, though
they could be a little better about their policies. :)

I believe their standard rate for repair + rechroming is $100/wheel (I would
assume that extensive wheel damage might be costlier, however).


I apologize for the off-topic post.  However, I felt that this would be
beneficial to all the chrome wheel owners out there, knowing there are so
many of us, yet so few places that will supply this product/service at a
reasonable price.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
   Dennis

...now where the heck did I put those lugs....?

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------------------------------

End of team3s V1 #217
*********************


team3s              Sunday, July 30 2000              Volume 01 : Number 218




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:29:27 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4

Here's what my instructor had to say about driving a VR4 for the first time:
__________
Instructing at the Heartland Park BWMCCA Driver's school was my first
experience in riding in and driving an AWD car on the track.

It is obvious that my student was and is comfortable with its handling,
traction and acceleration characteristics. I rode with him for a couple of
sessions, working on the line and utilizing all of the track. He had NO
problem getting the car to go where he pointed it (not always WHERE I wanted
him to point it), but as an instructor, who essentially has NO physical
control over where the heck we MAY be going, I felt like the car was very
stable and capable in the twisties at HPT. (Note, HPT has a WIDE range of
corners and speeds... fast, medium, slow... tight, open... increasing,
decreasing... basically a wonderful driver's education track.)

My student DID allow me to take his car out in one of the instructor
sessions (me driving, him riding). I have literally thousands of on-track
miles at HPT, but this was my FIRST experience in an AWD car. Some of my
humble observations...

1) LOTS of traction... can't imagine the HP it would take to spin the tires
on an AWD car running DOT comp tires.

2) Neutral handling... UNTIL you really start to push the car... ESPECIALLY
on corner exit. After turning in and getting on the power (and the turbos),
the car takes on a DISTINCT "front-wheel-drive" understeer condition. I
found myself using a LOT more of the track on exit, especially on the
medium-speed, full power types. I could feel the front tires fighting for
traction AND working to turn the car... a very heavy car at that.. all at
the same time. I didn't drive the car 10/10ths ( I NEVER drive anyone else's
car the way I do mine...), but even at my 7/10ths, I was unable to get the
car to rotate at turn-in or get the back end to "step out"... which isn't
all that bad, but with the way I'm used to driving... I found myself wishing
that the car had a LOT more RWD characteristics than it exhibited.

I agree with a recent post... that AWD can help beginning and intermediate
drivers "be faster" (whatever that means... speed is relative... SKILLS are
measurable).

I DO believe that an AWD car CAN be driven fast and is a capable performer
at OT and Driving School events...and there are CERTAINLY situations where
the AWD would be advantageous (rain, cool damp track surface and those
ultra-low speed turns where you want and NEED all the traction you can get.

<snip>

Is it (AWD) the PERFECT track car?? I don't know...  Is ANY car PERFECT. No.
As a driver, can you get the most out of what you DO drive? ABSOLUTELY! Just
get out there and don't be afraid to ask for help, insights and an
occasional instructor ride.

But... I guess, for THIS slow ol' farmer dude... I'll stick with AWD in my
Explorer for chasin' cattle, haulin' seed and pasture-bashin' up at the
farm. For me, on track, guess I'll just stick with my ol' under-powered,
under-tech 1978 Fairmont-chassis-ied Mustang...and RWD.

________________________

Yeah, right. Under-powered 1978 Fairmont, my eye.
Jeff pushes that 1995 Mustang GT with a 351 Cleveland around pretty dang
fast. Scared the peanuts out of me, I'll tell ya. I remember what it's like
to drive an oversteering car on the hairy edge, and Jeff hangs it out there
all the time. When we got done terrorizing the other instructors, I
couldn't wait to get back into my stable VR4.

That said, anybody got any idea how we could get some more RWD
characteristics into our cars so as to induce a little oversteer when we
push to the edge? I understand that they build our cars with more RWD bias
in Japan because they do more road racing over there. I don't wanna mess
with the rear toe, because it might get squirrely under braking. Whadda
think? Wider rear tires? Bigger sway bar back there? Spacers in the front?

Jeff didn't mention it, but he told me that the 4WS really works on our
car. He was following me into 12, where we turn in at 80 mph and nail it,
and he said he could see the rear end turn in a microsecond after the front
tires turned. He thought for a minute that the rear had gotten loose, but
then he realized it was the 4WS helping with the turn-in, and the car was
just stepping out a bit. He said it was very smooth and appeared to help
the car get around the turn. Hmm...I wonder if we could increase the 4WS
bite to get a little oversteer?

Rich/old poop/94 VR4


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:06:16 -0700
From: Rich <rleroy@pacifier.com>
Subject: Team3S: Admin: Buyer's Guide Price List on our Website

All:

Since many of our newer members (and countless visitors to our
website) are actively shopping for a used Stealth or 3000GT, we have
published a Price Guide on the Team3S website.  Included are the
price of the car when new and it's current wholesale and retail
values.  Those of you who are considering selling your car may find
it useful as well.  Find it here:

www.stealth-3000gt.st/FAQ-3Sprices.htm

Rich
for the Admin

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 12:35:02 EDT
From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: OT: Arrow Tire + 17" rechroming -resolution-

Hi folks!


   I know that many of you here were interested in the outcome of my
dealings with Arrow Tire&Wheel of Upland, CA (email: arrowtire@msn.com). 
Here is the the summary:

Last year, I purchased a set of rechromed 17" VR-4 wheels.  This spring, I
pulled the wheels out of winter storage to discover some chrome peel on the
wheels.  So, I sent them back, since the chroming was guaranteed for 1 year.
It took almost a full month from the time the wheels left my house for them
to return.  This includes 10 days worth of shipping time, however.

Arrow Tire was very good about the entire deal, except for a single problem.
  One of the wheels made brief contact with a curb, resulting in about 1" of
rash on the outer rim.  Since the wheel was now "damaged", they would not
honor the warranty on the chrome, even though it was obvious the chrome peel
was not due to the damage at all...
I was quite bothered about this issue, especially when they fixed the wheels
and presented me with a bill before consulting me on the matter.  However,
Brian at Arrow Tire was flexible and we agreed on a payment resolution (I
paid return shipping, and they paid for the repair of the 4th wheel).

The wheels are back, and look better now than they did the first time I
received them.

So, in conclusion, I think I would still recommend their service, though
they could be a little better about their policies. :)

I believe their standard rate for repair + rechroming is $100/wheel (I would
assume that extensive wheel damage might be costlier, however).


I apologize for the off-topic post.  However, I felt that this would be
beneficial to all the chrome wheel owners out there, knowing there are so
many of us, yet so few places that will supply this product/service at a
reasonable price.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
   Dennis

...now where the heck did I put those lugs....?

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:38:23 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: Team3S: List

..is back up.

PacBell didnt like what I had to say this morning..so..guess what.  *grin*

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:40:51 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4

Hmm...I wonder if we could increase the 4WS
bite to get a little oversteer?
- ---

Doubtfull.

Stretch out the front track if you want to counter the horrible push our cars
exhibit like your instructor mentioned.

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jul 2000 19:51:15 -0700
From: John Monnin <jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject: Team3S: Need a block Again

I am looking for a 4-bolt short block for my VR4 again!  I had purchased one but yellow Freight felt I needed a yellow engine so they spilled paint into the cylinders and between the rods and crank.  Just to finish the job it looks like the block was rolled over  breaking one of the mounting tabs off the block, ruining it.  The insurance adjuster looked at it Friday and I should kniow status of my claim on Wednesday.

Best case: Yellow gives me insured value and lets me keep remains of block.  I can then transplant the new crank and rods into a used block and use the insurance money to buy forged pistons! All I would have to do is find a cheap used 4-bolt block.

Worst case: Yellow gives me insured value and takes block.  Unfortunately because I got a good deal on the block It insured it for $2000 but the best deal I have found on a shortblock is $2300 from Tallahasse  Mitsubishi.

If anyone has a lead on a good used 4-bolt block that can still be overbored email me privately.

One bit of good news my wife finally got out of the hospital after a week and a half of kidney stone problems.  I am so glad she is better that my engine problems seem trivial.

John Monnin
1991 VR4 with 2 bad engines!
jkmonnin@altavista.com


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***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 01:47:38 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4

>
>Stretch out the front track if you want to counter the horrible push our cars
>exhibit like your instructor mentioned.
>
It's not just understeer or push... it's the car clawing out of turns on
the front wheels, chewing the beejeesuz out of the front tires. If we could
get some RWD bias, maybe it would be more of an AWD car instead of a FWD
when it's being driven hard.

What about the RWD bias they dial into our cars in Japan? How do we do that
here? Is it part of the transmission or is it an external adjustment?

Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 23:41:58 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4

Two things:

Increasing track will increase oversteer (decrease understeer)..period.  But if
you are reaching a point where the car is leaning too far, little can help as
you are outdriving the co-efficient of static friction that the outside tire can
deal with.  Less turning or lower speed..pick.  *frown*

Second, dump the stock driveshaft, and watch your torque bias shift...as you
will increasing the power efficiency of the back of the car, and raising the
amount of delivered power to the ground.  Im hoping to find about 30-40lbs in
shaft alone (IE: Significant in power terms)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Merritt [mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 11:48 PM
To: jeff.mohler@netapp.com; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4


>
>Stretch out the front track if you want to counter the horrible push our cars
>exhibit like your instructor mentioned.
>
It's not just understeer or push... it's the car clawing out of turns on
the front wheels, chewing the beejeesuz out of the front tires. If we could
get some RWD bias, maybe it would be more of an AWD car instead of a FWD
when it's being driven hard.

What about the RWD bias they dial into our cars in Japan? How do we do that
here? Is it part of the transmission or is it an external adjustment?

Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 02:32:29 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4

At 11:41 PM 7/29/00 -0700, jeff.mohler@netapp.com wrote:
>Two things:
>
>Increasing track will increase oversteer (decrease understeer)..period. 

I was gonna get that spacer and longer studs like you suggested a few weeks
ago, but I got new wheels instead. I gotta check with Tire Rack and see
what they think about spacers with the Milli Miglia wheels.

>
>Second, dump the stock driveshaft, and watch your torque bias shift...as you
>will increasing the power efficiency of the back of the car, and raising the
>amount of delivered power to the ground.  Im hoping to find about 30-40lbs in
>shaft alone (IE: Significant in power terms)

How does changing the driveshaft shift the torque bias?

Rich/old poop


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 02:28:59 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4

Say you have a gear turning two identically shaped pieces.  That gear gives
the exact same amount of torque to each piece.  One is made of an ultralight
material, and one is a standard steel.  That gear can turn the lighter piece
alot easier than it can the heavier piece.  Which means a quicker response
time to the wheels.  Now, add in the the front axle(s) also.  In stock form,
if driving the fornt wheels took the exact same amount as driving the back
wheels, then when you lighten the rear assembly, it makes the rear more
responsive, leaving the front as is, thus giving you a higher rear torque
bias.

- -Cody

(if they hurt anything, spacers would hurt the hub/axle)


- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Merritt
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 2:32 AM
To: jeff.mohler@netapp.com; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4


At 11:41 PM 7/29/00 -0700, jeff.mohler@netapp.com wrote:
>Two things:
>
>Increasing track will increase oversteer (decrease understeer)..period.

I was gonna get that spacer and longer studs like you suggested a few weeks
ago, but I got new wheels instead. I gotta check with Tire Rack and see
what they think about spacers with the Milli Miglia wheels.

>
>Second, dump the stock driveshaft, and watch your torque bias shift...as
you
>will increasing the power efficiency of the back of the car, and raising
the
>amount of delivered power to the ground.  Im hoping to find about 30-40lbs
in
>shaft alone (IE: Significant in power terms)

How does changing the driveshaft shift the torque bias?

Rich/old poop


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 03:40:49 -0400
From: "Michael" <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4

Also, a material that won't flex as much will help.  The stock driveshaft
will flex a little before the torque is applied to the rear axles.  With a
stiffer driveshaft, the torque will be transferred immediately.  I've
noticed a huge difference first hand on mountain bikes with wheels, cranks
and frames.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of cody
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 3:29
To: Merritt
Cc: Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4


Say you have a gear turning two identically shaped pieces.  That gear gives
the exact same amount of torque to each piece.  One is made of an ultralight
material, and one is a standard steel.  That gear can turn the lighter piece
alot easier than it can the heavier piece.  Which means a quicker response
time to the wheels.  Now, add in the the front axle(s) also.  In stock form,
if driving the fornt wheels took the exact same amount as driving the back
wheels, then when you lighten the rear assembly, it makes the rear more
responsive, leaving the front as is, thus giving you a higher rear torque
bias.

- -Cody

(if they hurt anything, spacers would hurt the hub/axle)


- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Merritt
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 2:32 AM
To: jeff.mohler@netapp.com; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4


At 11:41 PM 7/29/00 -0700, jeff.mohler@netapp.com wrote:
>Two things:
>
>Increasing track will increase oversteer (decrease understeer)..period.

I was gonna get that spacer and longer studs like you suggested a few weeks
ago, but I got new wheels instead. I gotta check with Tire Rack and see
what they think about spacers with the Milli Miglia wheels.

>
>Second, dump the stock driveshaft, and watch your torque bias shift...as
you
>will increasing the power efficiency of the back of the car, and raising
the
>amount of delivered power to the ground.  Im hoping to find about 30-40lbs
in
>shaft alone (IE: Significant in power terms)

How does changing the driveshaft shift the torque bias?

Rich/old poop


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Torque split (was: An outsider's look at a VR4)

The torque from the engine is split between front and rear axles at
the center differential/viscous coupling unit. The transfer case gear
reduction quantifies what the torque split is. For 5-spd it is 45/55
(F/R) and for 6-sp it is 49/51 (F/R). **If** the Japanese version has
a different split then the center diff/VC unit, transfer case, front
diff, and rear diff must all be different than ours. I have not heard
of such critters but would like to know about details if they really
exist. AWD gear reduction ratios can be found on the Specifications
page at my web site.

Jeff Lucius
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified
 --> http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Merritt" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To: <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>; <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 12:47 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4

> What about the RWD bias they dial into our cars in Japan? How do we
> do that here? Is it part of the transmission or is it an external
> adjustment?
 
> Rich/old poop

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:57:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Please turn off auto-replies!

Hey kiddies, please turn off your "I'm not here" replies to list
emails.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Anissa.Mohler@netapp.com>
To: <stealthman92@yahoo.com>  

******* this was a Team3S email! ********

Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 10:47 AM
Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: Team3S: Torque split (was: An
outsider's look at a VR4)

> I will be out of the office from 7/31-8/4.
> For technical assistance please call 1-888-4NETAPP.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 11:31:01 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4

At 11:41 PM 7/29/00 -0700, jeff.mohler@netapp.com wrote:
>Two things:
>
>Increasing track will increase oversteer (decrease understeer)..period. 

I was gonna get that spacer and longer studs like you suggested a few weeks
ago, but I got new wheels instead. I gotta check with Tire Rack and see
what they think about spacers with the Milli Miglia wheels.
- ---

Whats for them to think..this doesnt affect the wheel at all.

They'll whine about lug-centric..but with an acorn wheel and nut..it doesnt
matter anyway.  Just ask the Porsche ppl who run 2"+ spacers out back *heh*


>Second, dump the stock driveshaft, and watch your torque bias shift...as you
>will increasing the power efficiency of the back of the car, and raising the
>amount of delivered power to the ground.  Im hoping to find about 30-40lbs in
>shaft alone (IE: Significant in power terms)

How does changing the driveshaft shift the torque bias?
- ---

As you gain efficiency in your drivetrain (less mass to waste power
accelerating) you gain power to the ground.

I dropped 69lbs of drivetrain (pulley, flywheel, driveshaft, wheels..all
lightweight) and on STOCK boost Im running about 238Hp with 286lb of torque.
This is on a 500 mile old motor as well..drivetrain weight is worth BIG power
differences.

The more weight you remove from the rear drivetrain, the more power that is sent
there..makes it to the ground, shifting the bias.  To do so mechanically would
require major modifications to the drivetrain otherwise.

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 11:31:58 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Please turn off auto-replies!

I'll get her to fix that..shes in holland for a week and I get to babysit.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius [mailto:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 9:57 AM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Cc: Anissa.Mohler@netapp.com
Subject: Team3S: Please turn off auto-replies!


Hey kiddies, please turn off your "I'm not here" replies to list
emails.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Anissa.Mohler@netapp.com>
To: <stealthman92@yahoo.com>  

******* this was a Team3S email! ********

Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 10:47 AM
Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: Team3S: Torque split (was: An
outsider's look at a VR4)

> I will be out of the office from 7/31-8/4.
> For technical assistance please call 1-888-4NETAPP.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 14:00:31 -0500
From: "Greg S." <wizards@mhtc.net>
Subject: Team3S: Gathering Web Site is NOW up and running!

Hi all,

The web site for the first ever W3SI Gathering is now up and running!
Stop by and sign up if you're going to be in the area ... I'm hoping for
a
great turnout and would love to see you there!

http://www.mhtc.net/~wizards/W3SI/Events/Roadrun/RoadRun.html

Greg


P.S.  Feel free to make comments/Suggestions on the HTML if you like
         as well .... that's how we all improve.


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 14:59:49 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Torque split (was: An outsider's look at a VR4)

At 09:45 AM 7/30/00 -0700, Jeff Lucius wrote:
>The torque from the engine is split between front and rear axles at
>the center differential/viscous coupling unit. The transfer case gear
>reduction quantifies what the torque split is. For 5-spd it is 45/55
>(F/R) and for 6-sp it is 49/51 (F/R).

You guys with 5-speeds have a RWD bias, then. Do you oversteer as much as
6-speed cars?

Think I could swap the center diff from a 5-speed into a 6 speed?


 **If** the Japanese version has
>a different split then the center diff/VC unit, transfer case, front
>diff, and rear diff must all be different than ours. I have not heard
>of such critters but would like to know about details

I just heard about it. Don't know if it's true. Mebbe it's just the
5-speed, like you describe.

Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 14:56:53 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S:lightweight driveshafts

>wheels, then when you lighten the rear assembly, it makes the rear more
>responsive, leaving the front as is, thus giving you a higher rear torque
>bias.
>
Where do you get one of these lightweight driveshafts, and how much do they
cost?

Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:26:30 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S:lightweight driveshafts

You have to have one made.

I can get an alum-alloy made for a Supra for $350, probly $425 for a VR4
(increased length).  A cold-steel OEM type shaft (but without the heavy
joints..etc) will weight about 2x an alum shaft, but still half of a stock
probly.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Merritt [mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 12:57 PM
To: cody
Cc: Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S:lightweight driveshafts


>wheels, then when you lighten the rear assembly, it makes the rear more
>responsive, leaving the front as is, thus giving you a higher rear torque
>bias.
>
Where do you get one of these lightweight driveshafts, and how much do they
cost?

Rich/old poop

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 15:51:47 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S:lightweight driveshafts

At 01:26 PM 7/30/00 -0700, jeff.mohler@netapp.com wrote:
>You have to have one made.
>
>I can get an alum-alloy made for a Supra for $350, probly $425 for a VR4
>(increased length).  A cold-steel OEM type shaft (but without the heavy
>joints..etc) will weight about 2x an alum shaft, but still half of a stock
>probly.

OUCH!! I think I'll try the spacers.

Rich


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:34:02 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: An outsider's look at a VR4

> Also, a material that won't flex as much will help.  The stock driveshaft
> will flex a little before the torque is applied to the rear axles.  With a
> stiffer driveshaft, the torque will be transferred immediately.  I've
> noticed a huge difference first hand on mountain bikes with wheels, cranks
> and frames.

Unfortunately that means that the transmission and transfer case need to
absorb more of that twisting energy, and as most of us are aware - those
parts aren't particularly strong (or cheap).  The torque will get transfered
quicker, but with an increase of opposing force on both ends of the system.
Opposing force probably isn't the right choice of words, but I think I'm
getting my point across.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of team3s V1 #218
*********************