team3s
Friday, July 28
2000
Volume 01 : Number
216
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:21:00 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Valve/cam timing, is that the problem?
OK, letme make sure we are
talking about the same terms.
The two innermost cams are your intake
cams. The most forward and most
rearward cam are your exhaust
cams.
From the side, the front pair should be identical to the rear
pair. If the
front two are measure to be 5 teeth apart, and the rear
are only 4, then
this is a problem. The cam gears are supposed to line
up perfectly.
I would take it back, and maybe this time demand to watch
them check it.
That way you know they did it properly, and you can make sure
that they are
being perfect, not lazy.
If they do it correctly, they
should remove the cam covers, then maybe rmove
the drivers side wheel.
Then they will use a large honking ratchet to turn
the engine as it
sits. When it is trned to the correct index, you should be
able to look
at the timing marks, and everything be exacly perfect, and
lineup exactly
with the timing marks on the engine.
- -Cody
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of
Zeoswolf@aol.comSent:
Thursday, July 27, 2000 3:10 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Valve/cam timing, is that the problem?
ok here is the
deal, i did what you suggested becuase when i took it to the
dealership they
told me everything was 100% on point.. so i checked it
myself. here is
what i found. got the front cover off, no problem, rear
cover was a
BITCH so i just cocked it to the side and delt with it. i
couldnt get
the marks lined up exactically so i just did a *poor mans
version* of what
steve did and just counted the teeth from the marks. on
the
front
bank, each cam was 5 teeth from the respective mark, perfectly set
becuase
the teeth werent exacting on the mark.. little deviation and both
were
counting out perfectly. here is what concerns me, the rear
bank
(having
NOT touched anything and counting them right after the front
bank) i
noticed
that the marks were 4 teeth apart with the direction
of the deviation
towards
the front of the car. are both banks
supposed to line up perfectly?? like
in my case, i counted 5 teeth from
mark to mark, should the rear bank be set
EXACTLY the same as the front or
doesnt it make a difference just as long as
the marks line up. ugh.. im
sorry this is wierd to explain.. PLEASE SOMEONE
HELP ME ON THIS SO I CAN SUE
THE DEALERSHIP FOR SCREWING MY CAR UP IF THAT
IS
THE
CASE!!!!
james
94R/T
*** Info:
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***
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:34:31
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Valve/cam timing, is that the problem?
> ok here is the
deal, i did what you suggested becuase
> when i took it to the dealership
they told me everything
> was 100% on point.. so i checked it
myself. here is what
> i found. got the front cover off, no
problem, rear cover
> was a BITCH so i just cocked it to the side and delt
with
> it. i couldnt get the marks lined up exactically so i
>
just did a *poor mans version* of what steve did and just
> counted the
teeth from the marks.
You MUST have the timing mark on the crank pulley
lined up on the "0" mark
in order for any of the other reference marks to be
useful at all since it
is all based off the crank angle. Anything other
than that is going to be
somewhat inconclusive. You also have to make
sure that you rotate the crank
in the normal direction of rotation, otherwise
it'll squish the tensioner
and make the readings be off.
Don't take
shortcuts on this, do it right - and take pictures for proof.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:06:07
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Valve/cam timing, is that the problem?
> got the front cover
off, no problem, rear cover was a
> @#$%% so i just cocked it
to the side and delt with it.
If you loosen the nuts on the cables of
the cruise control box, you can move
the cables out of the way and things are
a lot easier. Now the brake fluid
reservoir is another matter:)
Don't scrape the timing belt with that cover!
> here is what
concerns me, the rear bank (having
> NOT touched anything and counting
them right after the front
> bank) i noticed that the marks
were 4 teeth apart with the
> direction of the deviation towards the front
of the car.
> are both banks supposed to line up
perfectly??
AFAIK, yes. Mine do, anyway. I forgot to check
the timing mark on the
crank pulley when I checked it a couple days ago, but
I when I lined up the
valve timing marks, they were EXACTLY on the
money. I guess I should check
the crank end, too - thanks,
Matt.
Here's my poor attempt at a diagram:) The Vs are the
triangular marks and
the |_|s are the square marks.
_
_
_ _
Valve cover:
V |_|
|_| V
Cam Sprockets:
| | | |
| |
If you engine doesn't stop where the
timing marks are lined up (it almost
never will), grab your handy-dandy 22mm
socket and your favorite socket
wrench. There's a little rubber plug in
the driver-side wheel well cover
that just happens to be exactly lined
up with the nut on the crankshaft
pulley (I wonder why they put that
there? :) Anyway, a 3" extension on a
socket wrench will get the socket
onto the nut and you can crank away until
the marks are lined up. Turn
it clockwise! :) It doesn't take too terribly
much effort, and a 3/8"
wrench is fine. If you find that it's taking more
than 50-75ft-lbs to
turn the crankshaft, check that the tranny is in
neutral. It'll be
really hard to turn with the car in gear.... ask me how I
know:)
-
--Erik
-
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (NA, DOHC,
5-speed) 72,000
mi
Firestone Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock
wheels
Magnacor KV85 spark plug wires, NGK plugs @
0.040"
K&N FIPK, Mobil 1 10W30 w/ OEM oil filter, Skippy PCV
CC
'94 Algae Blue "Ain't No 3000"
Corolla
68,000mi
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:13:36
-0400
From: "Dave Holden" <
dholden@deadkenny.northern-lights.bc.ca>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Valve/cam timing, is that the problem?
James,
Don't
waste your time trying to diagnose the problem yourself. Speak to
the
service manager (nicely) and tell them that you still have concerns with
the
repair. Ask them to hook the car up to the emissions analyzer to
verify
that the engine is tuned properly. Offer to pay for it if the
car passes.
If you have a camshaft that is out of time they will not be
able to get the
engine to tune to specs. This should reinforce your
argument that they made
a mistake when they fixed your car. Your HC
measurement will be very high
due to poor combustion caused by the incorrect
valve timing.
If they refuse to do this for you then call your local BBB
to mediate your
dispute. If they can't help you, then you will have to
sue. This would
involve some kind of proof that the belt installation
was done wrong. A
written statement from an independent licensed
mechanic would do the trick.
You would have to pay this mechanic to take your
car apart again to verify
that the belt is on there wrong, but you can
recover this from the dealer if
they are in the wrong and you win in
court.
Most dealers are not THAT evil. They want your business,
especially if you
own a high-maintenance car like a Stealth or 3000GT.
Mechanics love people
with high-performance vehicles because these vehicles
generally require more
maintenance than the average family car.
Good
luck and I hope that you can resolve this soon,
Dave Holden
Pearl
White '91 R/T
Vancouver, BC
>
> ok here is the deal, i
did what you suggested becuase when i
> took it to the
> dealership
they told me everything was 100% on point.. so i
> checked
it
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:17:59
-0500 (CDT)
From: "Stephen C. Kempf" <
kempfsc@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Valve/cam timing, is that the problem?
Zeowolf,
Sounds
like a similar situation to mine. I wouldn't worry so much about
suing (too
little return for the effort invovled) as getting the car
properly repaired.
It wuld probably be a good idea to get your findings
verified by a mechanic
from another local shop. This is what I did. It
cost me $25.00 to have him
come to my house and look at the timing marks.
Also, he found that in
addition to the intake cam being 5 teeth off, that
the crankshaft was 3-4
degrees off of top dead center which means that the
belt is off 1 or 2 teeth
there also.
Tomorrow, I have an appointment with the owner of my
dealership. Hopefully
we will be able to resolve my problems in an equitable
manner. One thing
to remember is that the mechanic who did the job may have
told the servcie
manager that he checked the timing mark alignments even
thought he didn't
and then the service manager just relayed this to you. It
doesn't excuse
what happened, but may explain why you were
misinformed.
Steve
______________________________________
You
start with a bag full of luck
and an empty bag of experience.
The trick is
to fill the bag of
experience before you empty the bag of
luck. -
anonymous
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:30:03
-0400
From: "Michael" <
mdorsey@mindspring.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Running Hot
This is just a guess, but it looks like the
intercoolers may be getting
heat-soaked.
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Merritt
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 23:39
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stCc:
bbedell@austin.rr.com; Willis, Charles
E.; xwing;
jczoom@iname.com;
john
Attebury;
MikeVR4@aol.com; Oskar;
sjc0u812@juno.com;
Dskull@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Running
Hot
One problem we had last weekend whilst running at Heartland Park
was high
temperatures. Whenever I would use a lot of boost, the temperature
gauge
would go sky high within a few laps..
I don't think this is a
radiator/water pump problem, because the temp would
go back to normal as soon
as I started short shifting and running in higher
gears. The temp would drop
back to normal in half a lap, simply because I
was not using as much boost. I
installed a new water pump last year. I'm
still running stock boost,
BTW.
So, a few questions for youse guys who run the autobahns or open
tracking,
where you are on full boost for long periods of time:
Have
you had a similar overheating problem?.
If so, did you do anything to
cure it?
Any chance this could be related to the cats? Could they be
generating high
underhood temperatures? Do those of you who have the problem
still have
your cats? If you do not have the problem, have you removed your
cats?
I would like to install a real temperature gauge, perhaps in the
windshield
pillar pod with a boost gauge. Any recommendations on what gauge
to use and
where to attach the temperature sensor?
We had a big
discussion about this problem a year or so ago, which I
abandoned after I
found I had a bad water pump. Some of the solutions we
discussed at the time
included raising the back edge of the hood to allow
air flow, installing a
louvered hood, running Water Wetter in an all-water
system, and so on. Has
anyone tried these? Anything work?
I am also thinking about a boost
controller and water injection, but now I
wonder if I might make the
overheating problem worse with more boost.
Help! It's getting tougher in
the higher run groups. When I run with lesser
cars in lower run groups, I can
short shift and use higher gears and still
stay ahead. But if I try that in a
higher run group, they are on me like
stink on poop. I need to use boost to
stay in front of these lesser cars.
To do that, I gotta cool it down
somehow.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
***
Info:
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***
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:06:07
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Running Hot
At 06:30 PM 7/27/00 -0400, Michael
wrote:
>This is just a guess, but it looks like the intercoolers may be
getting
>heat-soaked.
What does that
mean?
Rich
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:42:07
-0700
From: Jim Watkins <
jwatkins@mails.terayon.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Team3s: Installing seals in brake calipers
After open
tracking my car, I disassembled the brakes and found the
seals are dry and
cracking so I decided to order the seal kits. At $35
per wheel, they
are not cheap, but the car is a 91 VR4 and I plan to get
more track time on
it. Question for you guys is what is the procedure
for
removal/replacement of the seals and what tools and supplies do I
need to
get?
Also, with the calipers off the car, I'm thinking about having
them
powder coated. Any suggestions for reputable shops in the bay
area?
Jim
91-VR4
95-VR4 Spyder
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:02:59
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Running Hot
That MEANS..that the stock ICs have a certain
threshold of being able to
dissipate heat.
Once you reach that limit
of heat injected into the IC, it can no longer
dissipate it quick enough..and
they just get hotter and hotter. You then have
to drop the amount of
heat going into the IC, to allow it to cool down.
A more efficient IC at
the CFM fo air you are running, will work better.
Once you reach the
magic point, your intake temps will skyrocket.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Merritt [
mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent:
Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:06 PM
To: Michael;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Running Hot
At 06:30 PM 7/27/00 -0400, Michael
wrote:
>This is just a guess, but it looks like the intercoolers may be
getting
>heat-soaked.
What does that
mean?
Rich
*** Info:
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***
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:23:22
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Running Hot
At 05:02 PM 7/27/00 -0700,
jeff.mohler@netapp.com
wrote:
>That MEANS..that the stock ICs have a certain threshold of being
able to
>dissipate heat. Once you reach that limit of heat injected into
the IC, it
can no longer
>dissipate it quick enough..and they just get
hotter and hotter. You then
have
>to drop the amount of heat
going into the IC, to allow it to cool down. A
more efficient IC at the CFM
fo air you are running, will work better.
>
Hey gang...what do you
think of Jeff's analysis? Think that's causing my
water temps to go
up?
Rich/old poop
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:23:15
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Running Hot
It could definitely be detrimental to coolant temps,
but the the main source.
Tell me, what is your % of antifeeze in your
coolant, and how much water wetter
you using?
Hint: 0% antifreeze
and 2 bottles of water wetter would be the perfect answer
for track use (and
perfectly safe for street use too). The presence of AF in
coolant,
drops waters natural ability to absorb and dissipate heat (and water is
the
best you can get for a radiator)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Merritt [
mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent:
Thursday, July 27, 2000 5:23 PM
To:
jeff.mohler@netapp.com;
mdorsey@mindspring.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Running Hot
At 05:02 PM 7/27/00 -0700,
jeff.mohler@netapp.com
wrote:
>That MEANS..that the stock ICs have a certain threshold of being
able to
>dissipate heat. Once you reach that limit of heat injected into
the IC, it
can no longer
>dissipate it quick enough..and they just get
hotter and hotter. You then
have
>to drop the amount of heat
going into the IC, to allow it to cool down. A
more efficient IC at the CFM
fo air you are running, will work better.
>
Hey gang...what do you
think of Jeff's analysis? Think that's causing my
water temps to go
up?
Rich/old poop
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:38:53
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Running Hot
At 05:23 PM 7/27/00 -0700,
jeff.mohler@netapp.com wrote:
>It
could definitely be detrimental to coolant temps, but the the main
source.
>Tell me, what is your % of antifeeze in your coolant, and how
much water
wetter
>you using?
>
The usual. I tried to buy some
water wetter, but the local shops were
cleaned out. I'll definitely drain it
and go with all water and water
wetter next
time.
Rich
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:57:46
EDT
From:
Zeoswolf@aol.comSubject:
Team3S: Valve/cam timing, is that the problem?(new)
ok here it
is,
i DID take it back to the dealership this past tuesday
and they said they
hooked it up to the computer and it said everything was
fine. i asked them
if they actually physically looked at the marks and
they told me no becuase
it would have been another 5 hour job. i did
this myself in 20 minutes. but
let me ask this, like i said i didnt
line the markings up perfectly cuz i
didnt have the time so i just counted
the teeth on the cam sprocket from mark
to mark. the mark on the cam
sprockets for the two front most sprockets were
exactically 5 teeth from the
markings on the engine itself. the two rear
markings on the cam
sprockets were 4 teeth from the markings on the engine.
i actually
thought about it and figured this was an easier way to describe
it.. my
first post it was confusing about how i said this. now, one you told
me to line them perfectly and then look at them, others have not. is
this an
accurate way to check these markings by counting teeth or will they
be off
every time with this method? and if this is the a correct way
to check them,
and my cam timing is INFACT off.. would this give me the
power loss i am
experiencing and the wierd occurance of getting MORE punch
at half throttle
then with the pedal to the floor?? THANKS FOR ALL
YOUR HELP ON THIS!!!!!
james
94R/T
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:06:16
-0600
From: "Matthew H. Fogle" <
foglem@t-three.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Clunking when driving; accelerating...?????!!!
When my VR4 acceraltes now
in first gear I used to feel a clunking that
I thought might be the
differential... Now it's feelable when I hard
accelerate almost always... Can
anyone help with a reason for this?
Please I am REALLY troubled by this as it
seems to be getting worse.
Thanks in advance... A side question is: the 91'
doesn't say premium gas
only. Can it take normal 86 octane?
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:32:45
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Running Hot
,
jeff.mohler@netapp.com wrote:
>
>That MEANS..that the stock ICs have a certain threshold of being able
to
> >dissipate heat. Once you reach that limit of heat injected into
the IC, it
> can no longer
> >dissipate it quick
enough..
.
>Rich wrote
> Hey gang...what do you think of
Jeff's analysis? Think that's causing my
> water temps to go up?
>
=================================================
If so it should
show up as detonation and loss of power as the ECU retards
the spark. As I
recall you only run stock boost [ 9 psi ], I run 15 which results
in a hotter
intake charge and I have no overheat problems.
It's seems like the
problem occurs after prolonged running at or near redline,
it's possible that
the high rpm causes cavitation in the water pump. I'm not
sure why your
car has a problem and others don't, but an expensive test would
be to put on
an underdrive pulley and see if that helps the problem.
I'd also try a
good block/radiator flush just in case.
Water wetter
too.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:47:29
-0400
From: "Michael" <
mdorsey@mindspring.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Clunking when driving; accelerating...?????!!!
Sounds like
your clutch is about to go. In the first stages of it's death,
it will
slip a little under high torque, and then grab quickly, giving you
the
clunk.
Michael
98 VR4
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Matthew H. Fogle
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 22:06
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Clunking when driving; accelerating...?????!!!
When my VR4
acceraltes now in first gear I used to feel a clunking that
I thought might
be the differential... Now it's feelable when I hard
accelerate almost
always... Can anyone help with a reason for this?
Please I am REALLY troubled
by this as it seems to be getting worse.
Thanks in advance... A side question
is: the 91' doesn't say premium gas
only. Can it take normal 86
octane?
*** Info:
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***
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:08:29
-0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Running Hot
I think it is possible that the over-heating is from heat
soak of the I/C,
but you haven't mentioned a dramatic loss of power yet that
I recall after
long sessions, which I would expect were that the case.
In any case, proper
intercoolers will help a lot on a road course to maintain
a more constant
intake temperature (less so for a drag strip run).
Do
you use Redline Water Wetter or some equivalent? I know from living
in
AZ that it is good for a few degrees - about a width or two of the
stock
temperature needle vs. not running it. Sorry, no hard
numbers. I run pure
water and Water Wetter -- no glycol. Worked
great even in 115F+
temperatures, aggressive driving and decidedly non-stock
setup.
I agree with the cooling system flush idea too mentioned
previously, as well
as a good going over of the rad. Bent fins will
reduce cooling efficiency a
lot. An unpainted stock rad will cool a bit
better than a painted stock rad
if looks are not important, but corrosion
becomes and issue.
If you are running glycol-based additives in the
coolant (likely not if the
car rules are anything like other racing bodies -
glycol + race track +
tires = crashes) ditch it in favor of distilled
water and a product like
Water Wetter. It has the anti-corrosives
properties like a conventional
coolant additive and, unlike glycol based
additives, it will actually help
the water to cool better than water
alone.
Sub-zero temperatures are another story of course, but that only
matters in
the winter if you are so affected.
The other thing to try
(probably already mentioend elsewhere) is vent the
hot air out of the engine
bay somehow, and perhaps open up the front even
more to get more air coming
in. That only works if the air has somewhere to
go though, hence the
vents.
You could also wire both of the fans so that they are always
on. There may
even be higher flow fans and/or higher RPM fan motors out
there that will
fit in the stock space.
Last but not least, have you
checked the health of the oil cooler recently?
Getting heat out of the oil
(which likes to hold onto it) can make a huge
difference. Make sure the
cooler is in good shape and consider putting in a
better one. The stock
one is 'okay' but a little overkill won't hurt you if
you maintain the same
or better flow and pressure. You might be able to get
more air moving
over it too, and an electric fan for it is
worth
consideration.
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Merritt
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 5:23 PM
> To:
jeff.mohler@netapp.com;
mdorsey@mindspring.com;
>
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Running Hot
>
>
> At 05:02 PM 7/27/00
-0700,
jeff.mohler@netapp.com
wrote:
> >That MEANS..that the stock ICs have a certain threshold of
being able to
> >dissipate heat. Once you reach that limit of heat
injected into
> the IC, it
> can no longer
> >dissipate it
quick enough..and they just get hotter and hotter. You then
>
have
> >to drop the amount of heat going into the IC, to allow it to
cool down. A
> more efficient IC at the CFM fo air you are running, will
work better.
> >
> Hey gang...what do you think of Jeff's
analysis? Think that's causing my
> water temps to go up?
>
>
Rich/old poop
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:25:12
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Running Hot
Jeff said:
>> That MEANS..that the
stock ICs have a certain threshold
>> of being able to dissipate heat.
Once you reach that
>> limit of heat injected into the IC, it can no
longer
>> dissipate it quick enough..and they just get hotter
and
>> hotter. You then have to drop the amount of heat
going
>> into the IC, to allow it to cool down. A more
efficient
>> IC at the CFM fo air you are running, will work
better.
Rich said:
> Hey gang...what do you think of Jeff's
analysis? Think
> that's causing my water temps to go up?
It is
certainly a possibility. Heat soak usually only happens
during
prolonged high-boost situations, especially when travelling
slowly. If you
are still running stock boost levels and it happened
while at a decent
speed, I don't think it would be heat soak - and if it was,
then I don't
think it was the primary factor. If the intake temps get
high it will cause
more knock and the ECU will retard the timing. You'd
feel the power start
to fall off, so if you noticed that then there's a good
possibility that the
intercoolers were getting really hot.
The
proportion of intake air heat versus the heat from actual combustion is
a
reasonably small amount though, I'm not sure it could actually overheat
the
motor although it can certainly reduce performance by a large factor
if
allowed to get out of control.
I'd point my finger at the cooling
system before the intercoolers, but heat
soak could be a possibility if the
cooling system checks out.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:37:16
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Clunking when driving; accelerating...?????!!!
> When my
VR4 acceraltes now in first gear I used to feel a clunking that
> I
thought might be the differential... Now it's feelable when I hard
>
accelerate almost always... Can anyone help with a reason for
this?
Probably wear in the driveline parts. The u-joints will tend
to wear a bit
over time, causing some sloppiness in the driveshaft that can
manifest
itself as a clunk. Worn motor mounts are another
possibility. Worn splines
on the output shaft from the tranny to the
transfer case is probably the
worst-case possibility.
> Thanks in
advance... A side question is: the 91' doesn't say premium gas
> only. Can
it take normal 86 octane?
No, use premium (91+ octane) at all
times. If your car is 100% stock,
meaning that all the factory boost
control equipment is in place including
the boost control solenoid (and it is
functional after 9 years) then you can
maybe get away with 89. Turbo
cars don't like cheap gas, and it isn't worth
it to risk engine damage over a
few bucks a tankful. When the ECU detects
knock/detonation on the
crappy gas the stock boost control setup will close
the solenoid and reduce
boost to about 6 psi (essentially setting boost to
the actuator opening
pressure) which will reduce the possibility of damage,
but not eliminate it
completely (and drop your car from 300 HP to around
250-270 HP, depending on
how crappy the gas is).
You bought a sweet car, its best to treat it as
good as possible to keep it
happy. :-)
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:38:13
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Running Hot
Something someone said
earlier...
Cavitation.
I can theorize that a heavier fluid (50/50
coolant mix with AF) would cavitate
at high pump shaft RPMs easier than a
thinner fluid (pure water) would..but I
have nothing but what I would THINK I
would see in a test to speak of.
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:23:59
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: CAPS CD Catalog Home
The CAPS CD Catalog Database can permanently
be found here:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/CAPS/Bob
Forrest: Please include this in your HTML for the
site.
Vinnet: Please Email Bob at
bf@bobforrest.com with the instructions so
he
can make up a paragraph on it.
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
| Get your FREE
Speedtoys.com/net/org Email/WWW account at: |
|
accounts@speedtoys.com. Include
preferred name and |
| password (hey..its free, no
fancy CGI passwd thingie here
|
|
plus a 40Mb quota to
boot).
|
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 02:20:31
-0700
From: "Dave Allison" <
dallison@siebel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Viper vs. 3000GT VR-4 @ Thunderhill
I've run Thunderhill in both
my '93 3000GT VR-4 and My 96 Viper GTS.
The Viper does the 1/4 mile in 12
secs @ 118mph. I don't recall the
exact length of the Thunderhill
straightaway you refer to, but if it is 3/8
mile like you say it is, and I
come out of the last corner before the front
straight at 30mph, I'd say it's
a poor Viper driver who can't get above 115
by the end of that straight. I
was easily hitting 130mph before even
thinking about touching the brakes at
the end of that straightaway.
I think one of our members here said it
best when he theorized that
our VR-4's aren't faster or better handling than
the Viper... they just let
you go to the edge of the envelope without the
risk of being punished too
severely. I was able to throttle steer the VR-4
all the way around turn 2.
There is no way in hell I can do that with the
Viper. Too much damn torque.
I have to keep the throttle in a steady state.
No off throttle... no on
throttle. Once the Viper driver learns this, he can
smoke virtually anything
else on the track. I got my hands slapped a couple
times on Thunderhill when
I lost it coming out of turn 2 and did a 720 into
the mud. I learned that
smoothness is the key factor in making the Viper kick
ass on the track.
Smoothness is nowhere nearly as important in the VR-4. It
is VERY forgiving.
You take the corner too fast? Just ease off the
throttle... the front wheels
will bite and rescue you from understeer. The
back end is coming around?
Just accelerate and the back snaps into
place.
With the Viper, the accelerator is a freakin on/off switch. It's
all
or nothing baby. The VR-4 is all about control. Less performance, but
easier
to tame. My grandma could lap Porsche Boxsters in my VR-4.
BTW,
there's so much damn torque at every RPM in the Viper that I
drove the entire
3 mile track at Thunderhill in 3rd gear. There was never a
need to drop to a
lower or higher gear, even in the slowest corners. Now
THAT, my compadres, is
torque.
Seeya!
Dave Allison
93 3000GT VR-4
96 Viper
GTS
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Watkins [
mailto:jwatkins@mails.terayon.com]
Sent:
Thursday, July 27, 2000 8:15 AM
To: Oskar
Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
Merritt
Subject: Re: Team3S: Running Hot
Rich,
I just returned
from a 2 day open track event at Thunderhill Park in Willows
CA. During
the two days, I ran 150 track miles. There were three run
groups
and
each session was about 20-25 minutes long. During the first session,
I
forgot to turn off the climate control and after the session a lot
of
condensation ran out from under the car and gave me a scare, but
subsequent
sessions were normal. Thunderhill is 3 miles and 15 turns in
the full
course
rendition and top speed for me was about 115 on the 3/8
mile front straight.
Even the vipers didn't have the balls to go any faster
before the 75 mph
turn
1. I was also on full boost between turns 6
and 9 since 7 and 8 are only
kinks
in the full course. Also, full
boost between 9 and 10 reaching about 100
before
very hard braking in
10.
The temperature gauge was rock solid throughout even with 1.05 bars
of boost
on
stock turbos. The ACV-R records top speed, boost and
RPM. Bottom line - no
overheating throughout the event and more than
enough power to spank
everything
except the vipers. I definitely
need more cornering experience, but that's
another topic
:)
Jim
91-VR4
Oskar wrote:
> Rich,
>
>
this is somewhat similar to what I noticed the last time I went to the
>
track. I have an aftermarket water temp gauge (Autometer) and I
was
> registering 220F or so throughout the event. However, a the
end of the 1
> mile straight (140+ mph) I noticed the temp was above
240. When I got off
> the gas it immediately dropped back to
220. This was very sudden, which
is
> contrary to what you were
seeing on your stock temp gauge. I'm thinking
> that this is due to
high discharge temps from the maxxed out turbos. I
have
> no cats
on my car. If not, then would it be due to knock?? Why
else
would
> the temps drop off so quickly? I do not have data
logging capability on
> this car. I don't know enough about these
engines to make any qualified
> conclusions. Maybe next time I'll
try with and without race gas to see if
> it makes a difference.
BTW, I was running 14.2 PSI on stock turbos.
>
> As for aftermarket
gauges - I have an Autometer mechanical water temp
gauge
> and I like
it a lot. There is a spare opening next to where the
stock
water
> temp sensors (two) are located. I just removed the
plug and hooked up my
> Autometer temp sensor. No problems. I
cannot recall, but I may have had
to
> use a standard to metric
converter.
>
> Oskar
> '95 R/T TT
>
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: "Merritt" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Cc: <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>;
"Willis, Charles E."
> <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>;
"xwing" <
xwing@execpc.com>;
>
<
jczoom@iname.com>; "john Attebury"
<
jgunmann@hotmail.com>;
>
<
MikeVR4@aol.com>; "Oskar" <
swede@pclink.com>; <
sjc0u812@juno.com>;
> <
Dskull@aol.com>
> Sent: Wednesday,
July 26, 2000 10:39 PM
> Subject: Team3S: Running Hot
>
> >
One problem we had last weekend whilst running at Heartland Park
was
high
> > temperatures. Whenever I would use a lot of boost, the
temperature gauge
> > would go sky high within a few laps..
>
>
> > I don't think this is a radiator/water pump problem, because
the temp
> would
> > go back to normal as soon as I started short
shifting and running in
> higher
> > gears. The temp would drop
back to normal in half a lap, simply because
I
> > was not using as
much boost. I installed a new water pump last year. I'm
> > still
running stock boost, BTW.
> >
> > So, a few questions for
youse guys who run the autobahns or open
tracking,
> > where you are
on full boost for long periods of time:
> >
> > Have you had a
similar overheating problem?.
> >
> > If so, did you do
anything to cure it?
> >
> > Any chance this could be related
to the cats? Could they be generating
> high
> > underhood
temperatures? Do those of you who have the problem still have
> > your
cats? If you do not have the problem, have you removed your cats?
>
>
> > I would like to install a real temperature gauge, perhaps in
the
> windshield
> > pillar pod with a boost gauge. Any
recommendations on what gauge to use
> and
> > where to attach
the temperature sensor?
> >
> > We had a big discussion about
this problem a year or so ago, which I
> > abandoned after I found I
had a bad water pump. Some of the solutions we
> > discussed at the
time included raising the back edge of the hood to
allow
> > air
flow, installing a louvered hood, running Water Wetter in
an
all-water
> > system, and so on. Has anyone tried these? Anything
work?
> >
> > I am also thinking about a boost controller and
water injection, but now
I
> > wonder if I might make the
overheating problem worse with more boost.
> >
> > Help! It's
getting tougher in the higher run groups. When I run with
> lesser
>
> cars in lower run groups, I can short shift and use higher gears
and
still
> > stay ahead. But if I try that in a higher run group,
they are on me like
> > stink on poop. I need to use boost to stay in
front of these lesser
cars.
> > To do that, I gotta cool it down
somehow.
> >
> > Rich/old poop/94 VR4
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
> >
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#216
*********************