team3s             Tuesday, July 18 2000             Volume 01 : Number 205




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 17 Jul 2000 19:57:14 -0700
From: John Monnin <jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject: Team3S: Dimensions of timing belt tool

I finally have most of the parts to finish 4-bolt main conversion on my 91 VR-4.  One problem I tried to order the timing belt tensioner pully tool MD998767 but the dealership said it would probably take 3 weeks.  Being impatent I am going to fab a tool in the machine shop at work.  The only problem is that I need to know the distance of the square socket to the two pins.   Since this tool is torqued, getting the dimensions wrong will mess up accuracy of torque measurement.

Can someone with the timing belt tool md998767 measure the critical dimension and email me privately?

I also wanted thank Jerome at Tallahasse Mitsubishi.  I got a very large part order on time, correct and for a reasonable price.  I called for prices 4 times and Jerome was always helpful.

I was comparing the new valve lash adjusters with the original ones in my heads, the hole in the top of the adjuster must be at least 5 times bigger.  Hopefully this will end the valve clatter.  When I complete the 4-bolt main coversion I will post pictures showing the different parts side by side.

I also will have several used parts for.  The 2-bolt main block had valve marks on all the pistons and one of the main bearings wore just enough to leave light marks on the crank.  Since 91 cranks are not Nitride coated, the crank can be ground down and used with oversized bearings.
All parts from a 1991 VR-4 with 68K miles

1) 2 bolt main block with slightly worn crank shaft.  Cylinder walls look great, there is almost no ridge at top of cyclinders and you can still see original crosshatched hone marks.
2) Oil pan for 2-bolt main twin turbo.  One flange  has been bent slightly but it should be easy to bend back.
3) Set of 6 connecting rods. The rods appear to be in great condition but I can have them inspected by machine shop, I might be able to have them shot-peened too, if interested I will price.
4) Waterpump with only 20K miles on it

Again e-mail me privately if interested I will make a good deal on these parts.

John Monnin
jkmonnin@altavista.com
1991 VR-4
with soon to be completed mods.
gutted precats (easy when engine is out)
4-bolt main block conversion
balanced fuel injectors
ACT street clutch


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***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 20:27:41 -0700
From: "Chris Maxwell" <shmacker@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Clutch problem continues...

Well I replaced the clutch master cylinder ($120 and 4 hours of my time...)
and that did nothing to solve the problem.  So my guess is that it is the
release cylinder that is causing this problem.  I also can't shake the
feeling that maybe the booster could be causing the problem.  Is this
characteristic of a problem with one of the cylinders or the booster?

Thanks,
Chris
92 R/T TT

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Maxwell" <shmacker@home.com>
To: <stealth@stls.verio.net>; <team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 12:20 PM
Subject: Clutch problem continues...


> Well, I just bled the clutch and took it for a drive.  It felt fine for
> about 3 blocks and then the problem that I was talking about started
again.
> The problem is that the engage point for the clutch moves.  Sometimes it
is
> near the floor and other times it is much higher up.  It's almost like
there
> is air in the system and perhaps there is.  It worked fine RIGHT after I
> bled it but feels the same after about a mile.  Is it possible that air is
> being introduced into the line somewhere?  Perhaps a bad clutch master
> cylinder or booster?  This is very troublesome...
>
> Thanks again,
> Chris
> 92 R/T TT
>


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:39:24 -0500
From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Team3S: Resurfacing drilled rotors

Without discussing my choice in rotors, how do I go about resurfacing my
scored cross drilled rotors?  Can they be turned?

Thanks,
Oskar
'95 R/T TT


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:52:41 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Dimensions of timing belt tool

> I finally have most of the parts to finish 4-bolt main conversion
> on my 91 VR-4.  One problem I tried to order the timing belt
> tensioner pully tool MD998767 but the dealership said it would
> probably take 3 weeks.

Miller Tool has nearly all the Mitsubishi special tools (as well as those of
other manufacturers) and usually has them in stock.  The last known good
number I have for them is 248-478-5200, but I haven't called them in a while
(year or two?).

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 04:04:15 GMT
From: "Greg Gonzales" <greggonzo1@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Best method for Gutting precats

What is the best method for gutting the precats on our cars? I take it it is
more than just punching a hole through the middle of them. Is it really
necessary to remove all of the material inside?
Any advise info?
Thanks
Greg G
92 RT TT
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:02:58 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dimensions of timing belt tool

> Miller Tool has nearly all the Mitsubishi special tools (as well as those of
> other manufacturers) and usually has them in stock.  The last known good
> number I have for them is 248-478-5200, but I haven't called them in a while
> (year or two?).
>
============================================

I got a part from Miller [ 1-800-801-5420 ] about 9 months ago.

      Jim Berry


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 07:00:30 -0100
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4gearbox anyway??

Driver error?  I guess VR4 drivers just suck, so that's where my problem is...  I recently replaced my tranny a few months ago.  Sure, I race the car and I launch hard, that's not going to affect the synchros.  I DO NOT speed shift, in fact after a recent outing a friend made fun of my slow shifting.  On the other hand, while driving on the street I accidentally grinded, who's never done that?  Well, now my 1st-2nd gear synchro is messed up and the car doesn't want to go into first gear sometimes.  This is exactly how it acted, and a similar cause, as when I replaced it last.  It only lasted for 2 days of driving last time and I've been driving like this for over a week now.  At least Getrag will be nice enough to throw in a tranny with a synchro purchase.
I don't think Nissan intended my first car, a Sentra wagon, as a gut-wrenching sports car even though I drove it like one and it never needed a tranny after grinding gears.  In fact, I don't think it ever needed a tranny and was retired at 200k miles due body damage.
Maybe Mazda did intend my second vehicle, an SE-2000 extra cab pickup to be a gut-wrenching  sports car, but again, it never needed a tranny after grinding a gear.  It did need a tranny after many miles, but I'd say that was more to do with trying to grab second gear, get it sideways, or offroading.

Maybe I'll just move on to another car, to become a better driver of course.
Jason

Daniel Jett wrote:

> I agree that the transverse mounting of our engines is less than ideal, but the transmission doesn't care what direction it is mounted. As was brought up by Rich, the synchro issue is the Achilles heal, so to speak.
>
> I do think driver input has a lot to do with tranny failure. I am on my second Turbo, and have yet to encounter ANY transmission related failures. I am not typically aggresive when launching, and I pay particular attention to matching rev's, and not power shifting/slamming the transmission into gear. Had I been more aggresive, I would not be surprised if my tranny failed.
>
> I don't thnk anyone will argue that getting parts/service has been the bane of our transmissions.
>
> Dan
>
> >>> <jeff.mohler@netapp.com> - 7/17/00 9:58 AM >>>
> Geoff,
>
> I beg to differ.
>
> The weak link is most definitely the lack of aftermarket service/support
> pertaining to these trannies. Period.
> ---
>
> This was brought up in a pvt. Email I got as well.
>
> Simple answer.  It was never in Mitsubishi's best interest to deliver a
> gut-wrenching sports car (even tho the platform IS capable of it with only minor
> OEM adjustments that would have barely impacted dealer cost), so it follows that
> it is again not in Mitsu's best interest to support or acknowledge ANY form of
> aftermarket parts availability (even if it was possible via the parts counter)
>
> Case in point:  The MK4 crowd enjoys the fact that a Toyota dealer went out of
> thier way (With company support) in outsourcing full replacement parts for the
> Getrag boxes in thier cars.  Whereas  -we- have had to absorb the R&D.
>
> Cars in our segment have had more fortune with their stock transmissions than
> ours, up to and including Porsche AWD systems, by Getrag. The numbers, I'm sure,
> speak for themselves.
> ---
>
> Is that car also a transversly mounted system?  Thats where the main difficulty
> lies im sure.
>
> Now that we are finally getting a little more support/parts/service, things are
> getting better. You bring up an interesting point about the driver issue,
> though. I do believe that the driver has a lot to do with premature tranny
> failure, and for those of us who are "nice" to our transmissions, we probably
> see more longevity. However, I think the same can be said with any make/model of
> car.  The level of abuse that our trannies can support, I think, is much less
> than our counterparts.
> ---
>
> Which is why I bring up the design of our 'counterparts'.  Transversly mounted
> trannies just..are a horrible design to begin with.  Im sure the Porsche started
> out as a proper design before they did AWD, where the VR4 is still a weak FWD
> car, with wow..a hacked together RWD add-on.
>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            !
   !
>
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:00:23 +0100
From: Gordon Tyrrell <gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4 gearbox anyway??

A Porsche 911 Turbo has 4wd and more power and they're gearbox doesn't
break if it's driven hard. I agree that Getrag has a reputation for
making strong 'boxes but the rate of breakage in the VR4 is simply too
great to be driver related. It's very obviously a substandard product
and not made for any sort of power. The car only has around 300bhp to
deal with and the relevent torque. The simple fact is that it is not
hard to make a gearbox that can take that power and the abuse without
breaking. Other manufacturers do it (Skyline, etc). As for Mitsubishi,
they make a gearbox for the Lancer EVO VI and it has the same (and more)
bhp and in general will attract the type of driver that will give it
even more abuse and they don't break either.

I'm surprised Mitusbishi haven't figured a way of sorting it out. I
guess they didn't sell enough VR4's to care.

> -----Original Message-----
>
> The weak link is the driver.
>
> I know that sounds bad..but its true.
>
> The target market for the VR4 was not the race crowd.
>
> All things being equal, Getrag builds a TOUGH gearbox...we could have ended
> up
> with a Mitsubishi built one ya know.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Tyrrell [mailto:gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 7:00 AM
> To: gto
> Subject: Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4 gearbox anyway??
>
> Can someone tell me exactly what the weak component in the VR4 gearbox
> is? And why the hell is it not possible to just get it replaced with a
> better quality part?
>
> I had gearbox work done on an MR2 turbo for a faulty synchro but decided
> to get the whole thing worked over while it was apart. The place I used
> didn't use Toyota parts but all were of a higher grade then std. This
> isn't rocket science and parts for these things are made by size
> normally and not specifically for one model of car (I'm sure some bits
> are car specific). The likes of bearings etc are sized as far as I know.
>
> Surely it's possible to go to a good gearbox repair shop and just get
> higher grade kit fitted to the 'box and then tune to your hearts
> content.
>
> Don't flame me here. I'm just confused about how a company can have a
> car out for almost 10 years with a gearbox that's a bag of shit and not
> have come up with some solution????
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:18:33 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Best method for Gutting precats

> What is the best method for gutting the precats on our cars? I take it it
is
> more than just punching a hole through the middle of them. Is it really
> necessary to remove all of the material inside?

Yup, remove it all...  If you don't, it'll delaminate over time and large
chunks will get stuck in the exit holes of the pre-cats, and the smaller
pieces will get stuck in your main cat (if you keep it) or in the mufflers.
It is in no way an easy job - its very dirty and difficult to drill out the
stuff.

I swapped my turbos to 15G's and did the pre-cat "cleanup" at that point
which made it a ton easier since both pre-cats are off the car.  I put 'em
in a large vise and went at them with a large drill bit (I used a concrete
boring bit, others have had success with a spade bit for drilling wood).
After I got enough holes punched through it, I used a large wood chisel to
break apart sections of the material and then used a big plier to grab the
chunks and pull them out.  Make sure your chunks are small enough that you
can pull them out the opening.  The front pre-cat is relatively easy, the
rear one is a PITA.

The dust from those things is platinum and some sort of ceramic/metal
composite.  DO NOT BREATHE THIS STUFF!!!!!  Very bad stuff, probably
cancer-causing.  If you decide to leave the rear pre-cat on the car when you
do the work, you should obtain aa good pair of safety gogles that seal and a
breathing mask.  Don't risk your health!

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 07:41:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Air/vacum ports

- --0-719885386-963931289=:2997
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

Mikael,

I'm guessing the ports are after the throttle plate. They must be
sensitive to pressure and vacuum as well. As far as the engine and
emmissions are concerned , I don't think it matters much what the
conditions are before the TB (BOV excepted). The attached picture is
not at the correct angle to see the roof of the TB, but I don't
remember any other holes in front of the plate besides the IAC ports.

Jeff Lucius, 3SI #476
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified
  --> http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mikael Kenson" <vr4@bahnhof.se>
To: "Team3S list" <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 3:54 PM
Subject: Team3S: Air/vacum ports

Hi

On the intake manifold there is three air/vacuum ports located near
the throttle body.

Do those ports reads both pressure and vacuum or just pressure? (in
other words, are the ports positioned before or after the throttle
plate?)

/Mikael Kenson http://www.3000gt.nu


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- --0-719885386-963931289=:2997
Content-Type: image/pjpeg; name="throttlebody.jpg"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Description: throttlebody.jpg
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="throttlebody.jpg"

----------------binary coding snipped--------------

- --0-719885386-963931289=:2997--

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 07:28:39 -0700
From: Daniel Jett <djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car Covers.

Michael,

Anything with Kimberly Clark Evolution 4 fabric will suffice.  Great fit and breathability.

Dan J
94 Stealth TT



>>> "Michael S. Steinebach" <mikala.s@home.com> 07/17 2:43 PM >>>
What do you guy's recommend for a car cover... I bought a 30 dollar POS and
rain went right through it.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             !
                                  
                                                                           

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 06:32:10 -0700
From: Daniel Jett <djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car Covers.

Michael,

Anything with Kimberly Clark Evolution 4 fabric will suffice.  Great fit and breathability.

Dan J
94 Stealth TT

>>> "Michael S. Steinebach" <mikala.s@home.com> - 7/17/00 2:43 PM >>>
What do you guy's recommend for a car cover... I bought a 30 dollar POS and
rain went right through it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 05:47:19 -0700
From: Daniel Jett <djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car Covers.

Michael,

Anything with Kimberly Clark Evolution 4 fabric will suffice.  Great fit and breathability.

Dan J
94 Stealth TT

>>> "Michael S. Steinebach" <mikala.s@home.com> - 7/17/00 2:43 PM >>>
What do you guy's recommend for a car cover... I bought a 30 dollar POS and
rain went right through it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:41:14 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Clutch problem continues...

I have replaced both clutch cylinders (master & slave) and still have similar
experiences.  Sometimes it just feels like the clutch does not completely
disengage.  Lloyd Wihl sent a post June 2 saying he too had the problem and
replaced the clutch.  He said the pressure plate 'fingers' showed noticible
wear.  His problem  returned a few weeks after the clutch replacement however.
About the only thing that folks haven't tried (or at least reported on) was
replacing the clutch vacuum booster.  Maybe the 1st gen's boosters degrade after
time.

Also, the clutch master cylinder should have cost about $77 from one of the
list's discount Mitsu dealers (Connicelli, Tallahassee, Norco, etc.).

good luck,
Ken

> Well I replaced the clutch master cylinder ($120 and 4 hours of my time...)
> and that did nothing to solve the problem.  So my guess is that it is the
> release cylinder that is causing this problem.  I also can't shake the
> feeling that maybe the booster could be causing the problem.  Is this
> characteristic of a problem with one of the cylinders or the booster?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
> 92 R/T TT
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Maxwell" <shmacker@home.com>
> To: <stealth@stls.verio.net>; <team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 12:20 PM
> Subject: Clutch problem continues...
>
> > Well, I just bled the clutch and took it for a drive.  It felt fine for
> > about 3 blocks and then the problem that I was talking about started
> again.
> > The problem is that the engage point for the clutch moves.  Sometimes it
> is
> > near the floor and other times it is much higher up.  It's almost like
> there
> > is air in the system and perhaps there is.  It worked fine RIGHT after I
> > bled it but feels the same after about a mile.  Is it possible that air is
> > being introduced into the line somewhere?  Perhaps a bad clutch master
> > cylinder or booster?  This is very troublesome...
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Chris
> > 92 R/T TT
> >
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

- --
Forget world peace -- visualize using your turn signal!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:10:00 -0700
From: Daniel Jett <djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4gearbox anyway??

Whoa!!!

Check / reread your messages, I hope you're not impling that I said Driver error is the main culprit in the demise of our trannies!

Dan J

>>> Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com> - 7/18/00 1:00 AM >>>
Driver error?  I guess VR4 drivers just suck, so that's where my problem is...  I recently replaced my tranny a few months ago.  Sure, I race the car and I launch hard, that's not going to affect the synchros.  I DO NOT speed shift, in fact after a recent outing a friend made fun of my slow shifting.  On the other hand, while driving on the street I accidentally grinded, who's never done that?  Well, now my 1st-2nd gear synchro is messed up and the car doesn't want to go into first gear sometimes.  This is exactly how it acted, and a similar cause, as when I replaced it last.  It only lasted for 2 days of driving last time and I've been driving like this for over a week now.  At least Getrag will be nice enough to throw in a tranny with a synchro purchase.
I don't think Nissan intended my first car, a Sentra wagon, as a gut-wrenching sports car even though I drove it like one and it never needed a tranny after grinding gears.  In fact, I don't think it ever needed a tranny and was retired at 200k miles due body damage.
Maybe Mazda did intend my second vehicle, an SE-2000 extra cab pickup to be a gut-wrenching  sports car, but again, it never needed a tranny after grinding a gear.  It did need a tranny after many miles, but I'd say that was more to do with trying to grab second gear, get it sideways, or offroading.

Maybe I'll just move on to another car, to become a better driver of course.
Jason

Daniel Jett wrote:

> I agree that the transverse mounting of our engines is less than ideal, but the transmission doesn't care what direction it is mounted. As was brought up by Rich, the synchro issue is the Achilles heal, so to speak.
>
> I do think driver input has a lot to do with tranny failure. I am on my second Turbo, and have yet to encounter ANY transmission related failures. I am not typically aggresive when launching, and I pay particular attention to matching rev's, and not power shifting/slamming the transmission into gear. Had I been more aggresive, I would not be surprised if my tranny failed.
>
> I don't thnk anyone will argue that getting parts/service has been the bane of our transmissions.
>
> Dan
>
> >>> <jeff.mohler@netapp.com> - 7/17/00 9:58 AM >>>
> Geoff,
>
> I beg to differ.
>
> The weak link is most definitely the lack of aftermarket service/support
> pertaining to these trannies. Period.
> ---
>
> This was brought up in a pvt. Email I got as well.
>
> Simple answer.  It was never in Mitsubishi's best interest to deliver a
> gut-wrenching sports car (even tho the platform IS capable of it with only minor
> OEM adjustments that would have barely impacted dealer cost), so it follows that
> it is again not in Mitsu's best interest to support or acknowledge ANY form of
> aftermarket parts availability (even if it was possible via the parts counter)
>
> Case in point:  The MK4 crowd enjoys the fact that a Toyota dealer went out of
> thier way (With company support) in outsourcing full replacement parts for the
> Getrag boxes in thier cars.  Whereas  -we- have had to absorb the R&D.
>
> Cars in our segment have had more fortune with their stock transmissions than
> ours, up to and including Porsche AWD systems, by Getrag. The numbers, I'm sure,
> speak for themselves.
> ---
>
> Is that car also a transversly mounted system?  Thats where the main difficulty
> lies im sure.
>
> Now that we are finally getting a little more support/parts/service, things are
> getting better. You bring up an interesting point about the driver issue,
> though. I do believe that the driver has a lot to do with premature tranny
> failure, and for those of us who are "nice" to our transmissions, we probably
> see more longevity. However, I think the same can be said with any make/model of
> car.  The level of abuse that our trannies can support, I think, is much less
> than our counterparts.
> ---
>
> Which is why I bring up the design of our 'counterparts'.  Transversly mounted
> trannies just..are a horrible design to begin with.  Im sure the Porsche started
> out as a proper design before they did AWD, where the VR4 is still a weak FWD
> car, with wow..a hacked together RWD add-on.
>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            !
   !
>
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             !
                                  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             !
                                  
                                                                                                                              

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:28:12 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Help -Tranny output shaft

I have an open 5 speed on my workbench ---- I'm not sure what you're trying to
describe. Have you seperated the casings ???  There is an allen bolt holding the
rear of the casing to the input shaft !!
More detail is required.

        Jim Berry



> Oops. OK. I was stupid enough to open the 5-spd tranny to see if we could
> change the output shaft ourselves. On the shaft casing there are like 2 Allen
> screws or pins...
> Anyone know exactly how to open or remove the casing from the shaft without
> the whole thing exploding with springs?
> BTW, my tranny & Syncros still all look perfect. I have 119,000 miles on my
> car and I did race it. That's a nice surprise too.
> Arty 91 VR-4
>
>


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of team3s V1 #205
*********************


team3s            Wednesday, July 19 2000            Volume 01 : Number 206




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:40:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4 gearbox anyway??

Thats the whole idea Gordon.

Anyone who overdrives something..will break it.

Again, the car's intended audience was not -us-.

Call it indirect driver error..because we -know- what breaks it.



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| password (hey..its free, no fancy CGI passwd thingie here |
|                plus a 40Mb quota to boot).                |
- -------------------------------------------------------------



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:52:37 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Marshalltown on July 19--cancelled

POSTPONED
Nobody responded to this message anyway...but just in case you were
planning to show up and surprise me, it's been postponed until next week.
Let me know if you are interested. (Curt: If you passed this along to the
Quad City folks, please pass this one along too.)

Rich
- ------------------------------
POSTPONED TO JULY 26
We will be running laps at the Marshalltown Go-Kart track in Marshalltown,
Iowa on Wednesday, July 19, from 10 am to 5pm. $50 gets you all the laps
you can stand.

It's a great chance to see what your 3000GT/Stealth can do on a race track
under non-racing conditions.

No rules, no pylons, no sanctioning clubs, no nothing -- except you gotta
have a helmet and sign a waiver. We'll have some instructors from the
Porsche and BMW clubs on hand to help. We usually have 10-15 cars, so it's
never crowded. You can literally lap as much as you like. I usually run 75
laps, doing about 15-20 at a time.

Marshalltown is a 0.6 mile paved track that's about 25 ft wide and has 12
turns, mostly lefts. We run it in 2nd or 3rd gear in 42 seconds, for a 55
mph average speed. Top speed is about 70-75.

For more on the track, including a track photo and layout, go to
http://www.bestofiowa.com/ia-intl-raceway/index.html

Marshalltown is in the middle of Iowa, about 5 hours away from everywhere
- -- Kansas City, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Chicago and St. Louis.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:42:28 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Tranny output shaft - OK Done.

Thanks folks. Jim Berry good info. Tks
Arty 91 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:35:15 -0100
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S: Regarding the DSM shootout and 3000GTs...

Just so everyone knows, there isn't going to be an "official" 3000GT class.
However, we can run in the brackets.  Brackets, my favorite!  Just thought you
guys would like to know, kinda seems pointless to even go now.

Jason


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:30:28 -0100
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4 gearbox anyway??

    It's just my opinion, but I think it doesn't have a thing to due
with overdriving the car.  I think the DSMs do better with Mitsubishi
trannies.  Sure, there may be a few with serious tranny problems, but
I'll bet there are more VR4s with synchro problems (at least as a % of
the number of cars out there) and as far as racing goes, they're running
9s and several 10s.  They can also buy individual parts and can get
whole trannies for under $2000.  Our car has 320 HP bone stock, it was
intended to be driven hard at some point, but that's not even where the
problems lies.  I'm going to call it a design flaw and I'm sure a lot of
owners of unmodified, unraced cars will agree, it's junk.  Even if
Getrag built it to a lower standard because it wasn't intended to be
raced, should we expect a lower quality product, we should at least be
able to get the one damn part to fix the car when it goes bad.  Getrag
has one heck of a reputation, Porsche, BMW, Supras, and many others I'm
sure and I have yet to hear about regular synchro problems with them.
Aside from the crappy synchros I think the trannies are great, at least
on the 94 and newer vehicles.  I've got 116k miles, original transfer
case and I launch from 5-7k RPMs and the car is fine, but I miss one
shift on the street and the tranny is shot, nice.  Was the audience
intended to be perfect drivers who baby 320 HP AWD cars?  I'd think they
should have *offered* an automatic tranny if it wasn't meant to be
driven hard, kinda like a BMW, but wait, they use Getrags too...
    I also think that if the cars were from a manufacturer that gave a
rats ass about its customers things might be a little different, but
this is Mitsubishi we're talking about.  The same Mitsubishi that all
but refused to recall the AWD DSMs for transfer case leaks, even after
several cases of locked transfer cases and at least one death.  If I'm
right, they subsequently withdrew reps from the DSM mailing list because
Mitsubishi was "forced" by the list to do the recall.  They didn't even
start the recall until 97 I think, 7 years after the first DSMs were
produced.  Hmm, what would they have to gain for taking things into
their own hands?  We represent a very small portion of the cars that
were purchased and they have nothing that even compares to the VR4, or
even turbo DSMs now.  Even if we loved Mitsubishi we might never buy
another car from them as there is no other choice that would fit our
'profile'.  It be more money lost and I don't think they could use
anymore bad publicity.  If anything were to happen, it would have to
come from us, anyone know any lawyers?

Geoff Mohler wrote:

> Thats the whole idea Gordon.
>
> Anyone who overdrives something..will break it.
>
> Again, the car's intended audience was not -us-.
>
> Call it indirect driver error..because we -know- what breaks it.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> | Get your FREE Speedtoys.com/net/org Email/WWW account at: |
> |   accounts@speedtoys.com.  Include preferred name and     |
> | password (hey..its free, no fancy CGI passwd thingie here |
> |                plus a 40Mb quota to boot).                |
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:06:11 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Regarding the DSM shootout and 3000GTs...

> Just so everyone knows, there isn't going to be an "official" 3000GT
class.
> However, we can run in the brackets.  Brackets, my favorite!  Just thought
you
> guys would like to know, kinda seems pointless to even go now.

Eh?  I thought Jack talked to Buschur about it and he said he'd run the 3/S
class again.  ???

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:23:50 EDT
From: Klusmanp@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Feel a popping in clutch pedal

In a message dated 00-07-16 18:38:34 EDT, you write:

<< Lately I've felt a sort of popping or notch in the clutch pedal.  i can
sort
 of hear it but it's not loud.  Another wierd thing is that sometimes the
 engage point for the clutch changes.  For example, when I sit at a
 stoplight, the engage point is near the floor.  When I gas the car such that
 boost is positive, the engage point gets further away from the floor.  Also,
 say I am at a stoplight, if I pump the clutch pedal till I feel resistance a
 few times, the engage point gets further from the floor. >>

I just got on email today after a few days lapse - just now joining the
discussion.

Your problem sounds exactly like the behavior of my clutch prior to
replacement a few months back on my '91 VR4. I had quite a bad popping or
notch, but it only happened as the pedal moved away from the floor - pushing
the pedal down to the floor was smooth.

My mechanic said the notch problem was in the pressure plate of the clutch
itself. I got a chance to look at the old pressure plate and it was badly
worn on the spring "fingers" where the throwout bearing makes contact
(similar to an earlier posting). I believe this is a problem that develops
with a bad (squeaky) throwout bearing, thought I don't know if the worn
fingers cause the popping action or if it is simply some other part of the
pressure plate mechanism that wears out over time.

One thing you might do is have a buddy help you try to locate exactly where
the popping noise is coming from. With the engine off and the hood up, you
could tell that the "pop" came from the area of the clutch itself. It was
amazing how it sounded and felt like it was coming from the pedal (or master
cyl.) itself while sitting in the driver's seat, but once you get out and
stick your head into the engine bay you can hear the noise coming from the
clutch.

I did have occasional problems with the engage point moving. Almost as if the
clutch wasn't completely disengaging as you said. I had the clutch bled the
first time it happened about 2 years ago. This solved the problem for 5 - 6
months before it started happening again. It was was usually at the beginning
of the day, I'd pump the pedal a few times, and It'd be good the rest of the
day.

I was contemplating having the clutch bled again when the "popping" issue
started getting worse and I had the new clutch installed. The new clutch has
been perfect for about 1 1/2 months. The engage point and popping seemed to
be unrelated. I know the popping was a problem with the pressure plate, and I
suspect that the floating engage point is air in the system which was bled
during the new clutch install.

Paul Klusman


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: 18 Jul 2000 19:13:10 -0700
From: John Monnin <jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dimensions of timing belt tool

Thanks for the replys, Miller Tool 1-800-801-5420 had the timing belt tensioner tool for about $17 and they shipped same day.  That was a lot easier than trying to make a tool.

John Monnin
jkmonnin@altavista.com

>
> > Miller Tool has nearly all the Mitsubishi special tools (as well as those of
> > other manufacturers) and usually has them in stock.  The last known good
> > number I have for them is 248-478-5200, but I haven't called them in a while
> > (year or two?).
> >
> ============================================
>
> I got a part from Miller [ 1-800-801-5420 ] about 9 months ago.
>
>       Jim Berry


_______________________________________________________________________

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***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:10:29 -0100
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Regarding the DSM shootout and 3000GTs...

That's what I thought too, and why wouldn't they?  Haven't they had 3S classes
before and how hard would it be?  Why change it now, particularly because we're
bound to have more cars show every year.

At any rate, I didn't ask about the Auto-X specifically, but it looks like we
can only participate in Bracket racing at the drag race.  Pretty disappointing
to me, and I'm pretty sure AAM won't be showing for this exact reason.


"Jannusch, Matt" wrote:

Eh?  I thought Jack talked to Buschur about it and he said he'd run the 3/S
class again.  ???



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:21:28 -0400
From: Mark <pagan@siscom.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Regarding the DSM shootout and 3000GTs...

Uhh .. anyone know the state of this?  Jack?  I'm thinking of taking the
trip to run the car on Friday (have other stuff to do this weekend) but I'm
not going to go and watch my DSM friends get to run while I watch :).

Mark
'93 R/T TT

At 03:06 PM 7/18/2000 -0500, Jannusch, Matt wrote:
>> Just so everyone knows, there isn't going to be an "official" 3000GT
>class.
>> However, we can run in the brackets.  Brackets, my favorite!  Just thought
>you
>> guys would like to know, kinda seems pointless to even go now.
>
>Eh?  I thought Jack talked to Buschur about it and he said he'd run the 3/S
>class again.  ???
>
>-Matt
>'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
>
>***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:27:10 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dimensions of timing belt tool

- ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Monnin"
<jkmonnin@altavista.com>
> I finally have most of the parts to finish 4-bolt main conversion on
my 91 VR-4.  One problem I tried to order the timing belt tensioner
pully tool MD998767 but the dealership said it would probably take 3
weeks.  Being impatent I am going to fab a tool in the machine shop at
work.  The only problem is that I need to know the distance of the
square socket to the two pins.   Since this tool is torqued, getting the
dimensions wrong will mess up accuracy of torque measurement.
>
> Can someone with the timing belt tool md998767 measure the critical
dimension and email me privately?
>

Just an FYI...  There are two tools recommended for tensioning:  Part
number MD998752-01 is the tensioner pulley socket wrench, and the other
is part number MD990767-01, which is the end yoke holder.  See Rich
Leroy's write up on our website for more info - MD990767-01 is a
redesign, and a lousy one at that.  You might have been better off
making your own:  :-)

www.stealth-3000gt.st/60k.htm

Best,

Forrest





***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:48:35 -0700
From: "aa2345" <aa2345@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Tires Question

Hello Team,

I have a "Turbo and High-Tech Performance Magazine" (Aug 99 issue) and have
found several tires which seem at a god price to me.  These tires are all
for a 94 TT with tire size 245/45ZR-17.  Here they are:

Yokohoma A520 $128
Nitto NT-500Z $144
Nitto-555 Extreme ZR Extreme Performance $149
Michelin XGT Z $125

The contact phone number if you want to order any tires is: 888-916-3211
(Discount Tires Direct).  Can you guys let me know if these are good prices.
If not, what are some good prices, and where can I get them from?

Also, most important, which tires should I stay away from?

I know this question has been tackled before, so in order not to bother the
entire list, please reply privately.


Thanks in advance,

Mike.
94 Pearl Yellow TT
Detroit Metro Area, Michigan.


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:50:46 -0700
From: "aa2345" <aa2345@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Boost Controller?

Hello Team,

I am looking for a boost controller for a 94 TT.  I know there are several
that 3SI members are using, so I was just wondring which one of the 3 do you
guys reccomend based on what you have/know:

1) Blitz Dual Solenoid Boost Controller (HKS -->I think this company makes
it) -- I think $300, but from where?

2) AVC-R (made by APEXI) ~$600
(Actuator Valve Controller Pipe-R)

3) Greedy Rebic IV $???


4) Super AFC (made by APEXI) ~$400
(Super Air Flow Converter) --> I know this is not a boost controller, but
what is this and how necessary is this toy?

Also ... for as long as I have been on this list, I never noticed anybody
talk about aftermarket ECU's/chips.  Are there any available for the TT,
like for the 300ZX or Supra?


Thanks again guys.

Mike.
94 Pearl Yellow TT
Detroit Metro Area, Michigan.


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:36:10 -0700
From: "Francis Morice" <fas3@earthlink.net>
Subject: Team3S: SAVC-R

I have a question regarding the set up for the SAVC-R. I have mine installed
and have noticed a strange phenomenon.  Today while in third gear at about
3500 rpm I went to WOT and saw the boost as normal peak at about 16psi(water
injection) and like normal fall off to about 12 psi around 4500rpm, and then
to my surprise shoot back up to 15psi at which point I think I experienced
fuel cut.  Wondering what could have caused the boost to creep up like that
again. I have noticed this in 4th gear, but not to the extent of my
experience today.
Any ideas? Also what is a good site for an explanation on how to set up this
BC.

Thanks in advance,

Francis
96 RT/TT(12.98@105.50)



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 00:43:59 -0100
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Regarding the DSM shootout and 3000GTs...

I got curious when I checked out the classes and saw no mention of us.  I then
emailed Tym Switzer last Friday.  After hearing nothing, I finally called Buschur
Racing (not toll free btw) and was told by someone there that there would not be
an official class but we could run in brackets.  Just wanted to make sure you
understood where I got the info from.

Jason

Mark wrote:

> Uhh .. anyone know the state of this?  Jack?  I'm thinking of taking the
> trip to run the car on Friday (have other stuff to do this weekend) but I'm
> not going to go and watch my DSM friends get to run while I watch :).
>
> Mark
> '93 R/T TT


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:47:54 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Regarding the DSM shootout and 3000GTs...

Buschur is just afraid of Jack, Arty and Mike...
He doesn't want a 3000 to show and "fix him"


Brad
Check out my online store at: http://www.turboimports.com
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#  3612682

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Jason Barnhart
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 8:44 PM
Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Regarding the DSM shootout and 3000GTs...

I got curious when I checked out the classes and saw no mention of us.  I
then
emailed Tym Switzer last Friday.  After hearing nothing, I finally called
Buschur
Racing (not toll free btw) and was told by someone there that there would
not be
an official class but we could run in brackets.  Just wanted to make sure
you
understood where I got the info from.

Jason

Mark wrote:

> Uhh .. anyone know the state of this?  Jack?  I'm thinking of taking the
> trip to run the car on Friday (have other stuff to do this weekend) but
I'm
> not going to go and watch my DSM friends get to run while I watch :).
>
> Mark
> '93 R/T TT


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:45:57 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Boost Controller?

> 1) Blitz Dual Solenoid Boost Controller (HKS -->I think this company makes
> it) -- I think $300, but from where?

Nope, Blitz makes the Blitz controller.  ;-)  A lot of people use them,
seems like there's a little guesswork involved to get a particular boost
pressure achieved though.

> 2) AVC-R (made by APEXI) ~$600
> (Actuator Valve Controller Pipe-R)

Not as many people have these yet.  Can control boost at different RPM's,
which would be nice if you had a beefed-up FWD car, but since you are on
this list you have AWD with your turbo.  Mounting the display can be
"interesting".  Price is very high.

> 3) Greedy Rebic IV $???

Rebic is the injector controller and isn't typically used on our cars (we
generally upgrade to larger injectors and a higher flow fuel pump instead).
They have the PRofec and PRofec-B for boost controllers.  PRofec-A can be
finicky in its learning mode.  Its been around a LONG time with no update -
other controllers have surpassed it.  PRofec-B doesn't work well with small
turbos, which we have stock.

There's another choice - the HKS EVC-IV controller.  It is very untolerant
of anything "funky" with your boost control system or boost leaks, but if
everything is in order it works pretty well overall.  It is also expensive.
It displays boost on the controller and is of the "fuzzy-logic" type,
meaning that it compensates for changes in weather and such to help you stay
at your boost target without manual adjustments.


> 4) Super AFC (made by APEXI) ~$400
>    (Super Air Flow Converter) --> I know this is not a boost controller,
but
>    what is this and how necessary is this toy?

Adjusts the air flow signal getting to the ECU to trick it into injecting
less/more fuel into the cylinders.  Realistically, you are better off with
something like the Split-Second ARC-2GP or HKS VPC since the adjustability
range of the S-AFC is a little short when you pop in big injectors.  Nice
display on it, though, and you can rig it up to show air/fuel ratio.  Either
of the two other solutions have the benefit of getting rid of the stock MAF
sensor, which is fairly restrictive at higher flow rates and can be
"overrun" by too much airflow and give erroneous readings.  The VPC is the
least restrictive, essentially converting the intake into an open pipe with
a filter on the end.  The ARC-2 sets you up with a hotwire-type meter with a
large pipe and a minor restriction in the middle.

> Also ... for as long as I have been on this list, I never noticed anybody
> talk about aftermarket ECU's/chips.  Are there any available for the TT,
> like for the 300ZX or Supra?

For the most part, you don't need an aftermarket ECU.  G-Force has ECU
modifications for these cars, but I don't think it is a good investment
since you pay a lot of money for one setup and as soon as you upgrade
something else then your ECU map might no longer be optimal.  Adjustability
isn't there, but is with other solutions (ARC-2 and to a lesser extent the
VPC).

Take a look at the upgrade stages on www.3si.org (under "Mods") to get an
idea of when some of this stuff is recommended.  Starting with a boost gauge
and a boost controller is a good start.  Then you probably want to open up
the exhaust a bit, and consider larger turbos and fuel injectors at about
the same time if you feel you need more horsepower.  I was happy with my car
at the boost controller and full exhaust level for about a year, and then
decided to go with 15G turbos, 550cc injectors, Denso fuel pump, and ARC-2
fuel controller to get it all tweaked in.  If you want to go much farther
than that, expect to break expensive parts on a regular basis and spend a
fair amount of time "tweaking".

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:53:31 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Regarding the DSM shootout and 3000GTs...

> I got curious when I checked out the classes and saw no mention of us.  I
then
> emailed Tym Switzer last Friday.  After hearing nothing, I finally called
Buschur
> Racing (not toll free btw) and was told by someone there that there would
not be
> an official class but we could run in brackets.  Just wanted to make sure
you
> understood where I got the info from.

That really sucks bad.  Too late to back out, as I wanna have the vacation
anyways.  Ugh.  I asked about the autocross and haven't heard anything back
yet.  Last year Oskar and I were able to run in the same class as the DSM's
(and I took second place).  Hopefully that'll be the case again this year,
otherwise we might as well just head out to Cedar Point for the day on
Saturday and return for the Import Nationals on Sunday and then lay down the
law.  ;-)

Jack, are you around?  Any influence on making a class happen for us if we
get more cars than last year?  Last year there were only three of us, but we
really should* have more this year.  If we don't, I'll be sad.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:54:34 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Regarding the DSM shootout and 3000GTs...

> Buschur is just afraid of Jack, Arty and Mike...
> He doesn't want a 3000 to show and "fix him"

If you guys can run mid-9's, I'd love to see that!  :-)

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 01:10:16 EDT
From: Zeoswolf@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: stillen hi-flow intake vs k&n filter charger

hello everyone,
   as my first post on the Team3S mailing i thought i might start out with a
good question.  which air intake is the best one to get for our cars? 
stillen's hi-flow air intake or k&n's filter charger (FIPK)?   thanks

james
94R/T

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:41:56 +0200
From: Jim Matthews <jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Boost Controller?

"Jannusch, Matt" wrote:
>
> > 2) AVC-R (made by APEXI) ~$600
> >       (Actuator Valve Controller Pipe-R)
>
> Not as many people have these yet.  Can control boost at different RPM's,
> which would be nice if you had a beefed-up FWD car, but since you are on
> this list you have AWD with your turbo.  Mounting the display can be
> "interesting".  Price is very high.

I installed the new version (big blue display) in a friend's car and was quite
impressed with its capabilities.  We decided to run the cables for the display
into the center armrest console (Stealth mode - the display does fit it the
space in front of the cup holder tray), and the cable is long enough to pull the
display out and stick it on the dash with velcro when desired.

I have the previous model, and despite the impressive array of features offered
by the new one, I don't plan to switch.  The old one is "fire and forget" and
handles boost control perfectly.  If you're interested in simplicity and good
performance, you may want to opt for this model (if you can find it - they're
apparently in high demand now that they're not being made any more).  BTW,
switching between settings is as easy as pressing a button, vs. going through
attention-demanding menus on the new model.

Regarding the comparison of controllers, note that some have built-in boost
gauges, others don't.  If you decide to buy one that has no gauge, you MUST get
an external gauge, either permanently mounted (usually on the windshield pillar)
or temporarily mounted for occasional monitoring.  Note that I've checked the
readings on my AVC-R with an analog gauge several times and it's been right on
the money.  I think the Blitz dual turbo timer has a built-in gauge (with peak
hold, too), so that may be another option.

- --
Jim Matthews - Munich, Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://members.stealth-3000gt.st/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline fluids (trans, xfer, diff)
Porterfield cryo-treated rotors, RS4 pads, braided lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:55:10 +0200
From: Jim Matthews <jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tires Question

aa2345 wrote:
>
> Michelin XGT Z                                  $125

I suspect this was a sale price.  If they're still selling them this cheap, let
me know!  Typical price from the discount tire mail order places is about $185.
Tire Rack was selling them for $125 earlier this year, but they were sold out
before the magazines came out with the ad!  I have 30k miles on my XGT-Z4s and
am quite happy with their year-round performance; I'd buy them again.  Good
luck!

- --
Jim Matthews - Munich, Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://members.stealth-3000gt.st/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline fluids (trans, xfer, diff)
Porterfield cryo-treated rotors, RS4 pads, braided lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:00:07 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: stillen hi-flow intake vs k&n filter charger

>   as my first post on the Team3S mailing i thought i might start out with a
>good question.  which air intake is the best one to get for our cars?
>stillen's hi-flow air intake or k&n's filter charger (FIPK)?   thanks

None of both ... you can get the K&N FIltercharger for 2nd gen DSM for much
less money and it is bigger and does the same !

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:06:49 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Boost Controller?

I just add my $0.02 as Matt already said the important stuff.

> > 1) Blitz Dual Solenoid Boost Controller (HKS -->I think this company makes
> > it) -- I think $300, but from where?

The DSBC is around $469 !

> > 2) AVC-R (made by APEXI) ~$600
> >       (Actuator Valve Controller Pipe-R)
>
>Not as many people have these yet.

Well, I would say that there are many people who have it ... but only a few
who use the potential.
Price is around $569

> > 3) Greedy Rebic IV $???

As already said, this is not a bosot controller.

> > 4) Super AFC (made by APEXI) ~$400
> >    (Super Air Flow Converter) --> I know this is not a boost controller,
>but
> >    what is this and how necessary is this toy?

It is only good for smaller fuel injector upgrades.

> > Also ... for as long as I have been on this list, I never noticed anybody
> > talk about aftermarket ECU's/chips.  Are there any available for the TT,
> > like for the 300ZX or Supra?

Our cars do not have a chip that simply can be changed so a new ECU or a
replacement must take place. I have the G-Force but only to change the rev
limiter and lock the fuel map to only one. Changing the timing may help a
little but this is somewhat critical.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 04:30:30 -0700
From: "Vineet Singh" <billi_gates@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: CAPS! - Download now!

Well, I deleted the VIPER video's, so I had some space to finally
upload the OFTEN asked for "CAPS" program.

This neat little dealer tool tells you *part names and part #'s*
(Mitsubishi), and often even has diagrams and pictures! It covers all
vehicles from 1990 to 1999 I believe, and there are instructions on
how to use it.

It's *ALREADY INCLUDED* on all the newest "SPECIAL EDITION" 3/S and
DSM CD's, and is about 100 megabytes.

So if you have a 28.8-56k, be very patient because Mitsubishi might
come out with a replacement for the vr4 before you get all the files!
:) hehe (not)

Some screen shots are on the manual CD site, there is a custom setup
program made by me for installing it (it had a weird cryptic way of
installing it before, when I first got it from a DSM friend).
Unzipped, it's nearly 400mb. I've tested the files, but if you have a
problem, please email me right away.

Please don't ask me about "updates", because I can't get them right
now. Ok, now on to how to download the sucker...

Instructions can be had here,
            http://www.ecanfix.com/~gift/caps/readme.txt
- --============================================--

You can point your www browser here for *HTML download*
            http://www.ecanfix.com/~gift/caps/
- --============================================--


Or if you would prefer, an *FTP download* with these settings,
- --============================================--
Server= www.ecanfix.com
Port=21
Login= gift
Pass= caps
            /web/caps is the directory everything is in.
- --============================================--


Or even *easier*, put this into your www browser,
and it will download using it's built in FTP capabilities (if it has
it)
            ftp://gift:caps@www.ecanfix.com/web/caps/
- --============================================--

Remember to *RIGHT CLICK* and "SAVE AS" to save the files, otherwise
you might get garbage (these are all binaries).

Have fun, see some of ya at the SHOOTOUT (I will be in the Blue 92'
Stealth RT/TT with BBS rims)

(*PLEASE don't forward this to any other list(s) yet*... I want to do
it slowly so my server doesn't get flooded with too many transfers at
once, next week, Starnet and the DSM list.., Thank you for your
understanding.)

Vineet Singh - about to get all his sites canned for overusage of
bandwidth...
http://at.dsm.org - "Never Lift To Shift!"
http://chi.dsm.org - "ChicagoDSM - Go Fast With Class!" (updated)
http://www.eaglecars.com - Hehe, I remade the old Chrysler/Eagle site!
http://www.forcedperformance.net - Made this one too... Robert rocks!
 http://manualcd.dsm.org - DSM & 3/S Service manuals on CDROM


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 02:52:36 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: stillen hi-flow intake vs k&n filter charger

- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
> >   as my first post on the Team3S mailing i thought i might start out
with a
> >good question.  which air intake is the best one to get for our cars?
> >stillen's hi-flow air intake or k&n's filter charger (FIPK)?   thanks
>
> None of both ... you can get the K&N FIltercharger for 2nd gen DSM for
much
> less money and it is bigger and does the same !
>
> Roger  > 93'3000GT TT (Switzerland)
> www.rtec.ch

Roger means "neither" in his answer to your question, but I'd like to
expand on that, and disagree slightly...  Even if the K&N DSM FIPK is an
equal to the 3/S FIPK, or bigger(?), if you have to take your car to
pass US emissions standards and you get a PITA emissions tester, they
can give you a hard time.  The FIPK is the only one that comes with a
numbered CARB sticker, which is acceptable in all 50 states as an
aftermarket replacement filter system.  But that CARB number matches the
car, and it's in their computers and guide books.  If your CARB number
matches a 2-liter Eclipse, you'll fail, if they want to be difficult.

As to Stillen (or anybody) vs. K&N:   Last year, Chris Winkley posted
the results of some test of the various filters--  K&N FIPK was not only
the best *at filtering*, it was the best by a substantial margin.
(Chris' HKS Super Flo intake didn't fare very well).  And the FIPK had
the second or third highest marks for airflow - almost as high as the
Stillen, which lets through LOTS of dust into your engine, compared to
almost no dust with the FIPK.

IMO..., stick with the FIPK--  specifically, the 3/S FIPK # 57-1500 if
you must deal with emissions testers...

Best,

Forrest



***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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End of team3s V1 #206
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