team3s
Monday, July 17
2000
Volume 01 : Number
203
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 17 Jul 2000 02:22:32 -0700
From: "Veilside GTO" <
gtovr4@postalzone.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 1/4 mile times with 13G upgrade - Any room for
improvement?
Greetings all,
I attended the July 16th Woodburn
Import Challenge to tune my VR4 finally!!!
Here is the best time I ran with
the 13G upgrade:
R/T ... 0.391
60' ... 1.775
330 ... 5.214
1/8
... 8.131
MPH ... 85.73
1000 ... 10.587
1/4 ...12.650 @
109.55
Launched my baby at about 4000 rpm. Full dump. Passenger seat out,
no rear
seats. Tires pressure dropped before staging and Tein coilovers set
at a
pretty stiff setting. Temperature on that day: 78F; Relative
Humidity: 50
Absolute Barometric 30.95
I feel I did not maximzie the
full potential of my turbos. I ran with pump
gas as this event was not really
big - bunch of Integras and Civics.... and
with just the NGK's and not the
Denzo Irridium plugs. My Super AFC was maxed
out on the last three knobs -30.
I was running 1.2 bar of boost.
Question: Was there more I could have
done besides adding in race gas and
changing the plugs to racing ones? I am
still running pretty rich based on
the A/F gauge and my EGT's were not at any
dangerous levels. Errin and I
suspect that this could be due to a leaky blow
off valve. I have the old gen
HKS blow off valve and intend to get the newer
model. This aside, can anyone
provide any suggestions as to how I can improve
my times at the track?
I know off some on this list who have ran far
better times than what I ran
with the 13G upgrade. I am not entirely
disappointed as this is my first
time in the 12 sec frame and am pretty glad
that I am making some headway.
;)
Thanks,
Hoping for better
times ahead especially at NIRA....... :))))
Julian Huang
94 Mitsubishi
Veilside Tein TEC GTO tt
Team 3S
Seattle, Washington
gtovr4@postalzone.com***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:06:47
+0100
From: Martin <
martin@star.co.uk>
Subject: Team3S:
Injector cleaning
Hi all
Sorry if this question has already been
asked.
Is it possible to clean the injectors on our cars without having to
remove
them?
i.e additive in gastank.
That will not do any
damage.
Also i am having to replace the front wheel bearing on my 92 3000
GTO TT
AWD and cannot work out
if i can just get the bearing or
wether i have to purchase the whole hub assy.
Any feedback is
appreciated.
Thanks in
advance
Martin
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 07:58:47
-0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
Team3S: VR-4 Le Bra/Front cover question
I have a Le Bra on my 1995 VR-4
but had a question about where it connects.
When the front center of the
lower portion of the cover comes up and over
the front center air intake area
it is supposed to tuck just up and over the
front lip of the hood area.
I can supply pictures tomorrow for anyone who
is interested in seeing
this. (Note: If you have not installed one of these
front covers before
then all those words are going to confuse you.)
I don't know if the front
cover with the Mitsubishi logo fits the same way,
but if anyone else has a Le
Bra for the 94-96 model then let me know what
you find. Anyway, the
clips fit perfectly everywhere else, but I am
uncertain where the clips to
the left and right of this center section are
supposed to fit. Thanks
in advance.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com <
mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com>
'95 Black VR-4
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:15:33
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Well...shoot.
Jeff,
Pin 62 is IG switched power for
OBDI-style ECU. Pin 82 is IG switched
power in 1995 OBDII-style ECU. They
both have the same relative
position, that is, bottom row, and first pin
after right-most
divided. Or working from right to left, bottom row, last pin
before
the divider. Pin 62 ('95 ECU) is located just to the left of
the
divider and is not listed in the ECU termonal voltage inspection
chart
for OBDII ECUs (so may not be used, thus no power). See section
13A-183
(OBDI) and 13A-280 (OBDII) in file 3_96c.pdf from manuals
on
CD.
Assuming you are actually checking pin 82, then you may need to
work
back to the ignition switch to check for power.
Jeff Lucius, 3SI
#476,
StealthMan92@yahoo.comRed
1992 Stealth TT - modified
-->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/The
new 3/S Backup CD Homepage
-->
http://www.manualcd.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Sunday, July 16, 2000 8:29 PM
Subject: Team3S: Well...shoot.
Can
anyone who can read a wiring map better than me, assist me in WHY
wire #62 on
a 95 VR4 ECU isnt getting 12v? I cant find where the
other end of that
wire will be.
I havent removed a single relay or sensor..now car wont
start...I
dont hear the standard click from the EFI relay..so thats where
im
troubleshooting at the
moment.
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:24:08
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Feel a popping in clutch pedal
The stock clutch (I'm
assuming) on my '92 TT at 54K miles was not
stiff at all. The Centerforce
Dual Friction clutch I have in there
now is even softer (but supposedly can
hold better). The pedal
pressure is close to what's in my Mitsu pickup and
the wife's Subaru
AWD. Are you sure it is the stock clutch?
Jeff
Lucius, 3SI #476,
StealthMan92@yahoo.comRed 1992
Stealth TT - modified
-->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew H. Fogle" <
foglem@t-three.com>
To: <
team3s@www.speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Sunday, July 16, 2000 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Feel a popping in clutch
pedal
Mentioning clutches does anyone know how hard (stiff) a VR4
should
have? I bought my 91' and it felt VERY stiff compared to my
Eclipse
and Celica. I made the dealer throw into the deal fixing it.
Well
they have replaced the booster and master cylinder and it still
feels
stiff. Is this normal? Thanks,
- -Matthew H.
Fogle
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:41:40
-0400
From: Brian Geisel <
brian.geisel@compaq.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Datalogger
Question on OBDII...
Does anyone make an OBDII or OBDI.5 datalogger for our cars? Mine
is a
'94, so it's (IIRC) not OBDI or OBDII, it is OBDI with some
OBDII
additions. Does anyone have a datalogger for these?
Especially with a
knock sensor. That's really the big
piece.
I know there's a datalogger that DSMs use for
OBDII, but it doesn't
have
knock. Is the OBDII spec a secret or is
there somewhere we can get our
hands on one so someone can produce a
datalogger.
Does anyone know the deal on
this?
geis
For anyone who doesn't know... a datalogger is
really just a program you
run
from your laptop that reads the data from
the ECU over the serial line.
It
interprets the data and presents it to
you in some way that should be
helpful.
Jeff Lucius wrote:
>
Jeff,
>
> Pin 62 is IG switched power for OBDI-style ECU. Pin 82 is
IG switched
> power in 1995 OBDII-style ECU. They both have the same
relative
> position, that is, bottom row, and first pin after
right-most
> divided. Or working from right to left, bottom row, last pin
before
> the divider. Pin 62 ('95 ECU) is located just to the left of
the
> divider and is not listed in the ECU termonal voltage
inspection
> chart for OBDII ECUs (so may not be used, thus no power). See
section
> 13A-183 (OBDI) and 13A-280 (OBDII) in file 3_96c.pdf from
manuals on
> CD.
>
> Assuming you are actually checking pin
82, then you may need to work
> back to the ignition switch to check for
power.
>
> Jeff Lucius, 3SI #476,
StealthMan92@yahoo.com> Red 1992
Stealth TT - modified
> -->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/>
The new 3/S Backup CD Homepage
> -->
http://www.manualcd.com/>
>
----- Original Message -----
> From: <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
> To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 8:29 PM
> Subject: Team3S:
Well...shoot.
>
> Can anyone who can read a wiring map better than
me, assist me in WHY
> wire #62 on a 95 VR4 ECU isnt getting 12v? I
cant find where the
> other end of that wire will be.
>
> I
havent removed a single relay or sensor..now car wont start...I
> dont
hear the standard click from the EFI relay..so thats where im
>
troubleshooting at the moment.
>
>
__________________________________________________
> Do You
Yahoo!?
> Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from
anywhere!
>
http://mail.yahoo.com/>
>
*** Info:
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***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:55:30
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Datalogger
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian
Geisel" <
brian.geisel@compaq.com>
To:
"Jeff Lucius" <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Cc:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>;
<
stealth@starnet.net>
Sent:
Monday, July 17, 2000 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: Datalogger
Question on
OBDII...
Does anyone make an OBDII or OBDI.5
datalogger for our cars?
Mine
is a '94, so it's (IIRC) not OBDI or OBDII,
it is OBDI with some
OBDII
additions. Does anyone have a datalogger
for these? Especially with
a knock sensor. That's really the big
piece.
I know there's a datalogger that DSMs use for
OBDII, but it
doesn't have knock. Is the OBDII spec a secret or is
there somewhere
we can get our hands on one so someone can produce a
datalogger.
Does anyone know the deal on
this?
geis
###########################################################
Geis,
Following
are from recent Team3S posts. Go right to the bottom for
the punch
line.
Jeff Lucius, 3SI #476,
StealthMan92@yahoo.comRed 1992
Stealth TT - modified
-->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/###########################################################
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: "Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, May 12, 2000 9:20 AM
Subject: Team3S: TMO Datalogger on a
'95?
I know that it doesn't plug into the OBD-II style connector, and
I
know that OBD-II tools don't work on the ECU, even though it has
an
OBD-II connector (I tried anyways, despite what people said -
mostly
because I am desperate to have datalogging).
My question
is: Has anyone tried to graft an OBD-II connector
(connecing the proper
pins) onto a TMO Datalogger and get it to talk
to the OBD-I ECU, and was it
successful or not?
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
-
---------------------------------------------------
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Ken Middaugh" <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
To:
"Matt Jannusch" <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Cc: "Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, May 12, 2000 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: TMO Datalogger on a
'95?
> I know that it doesn't plug into the OBD-II style connector,
and I
know that OBD-II tools don't work on the ECU, even though it has
an
OBD-II connector (I tried anyways, despite what people said -
mostly
because I am desperate to have datalogging).
>
> My
question is: Has anyone tried to graft an OBD-II connector
(connecing
the proper pins) onto a TMO Datalogger and get it to talk
to the OBD-I ECU,
and was it successful or not?
There was a small thread last November
about this. Apparently the
'94-'95 cars are not OBD I or OBD II, but
some hybrid. Most likely,
just a connector will not do the
trick.
What needs to be done is someone with experience comparable to
Todd
Day has to get in and do the software. It really shouldn't be
too
hard as long as the '94-'95 protocol can be obtained.
- --
If
you're not the lead car, your view never changes!
Ken Middaugh (858)
455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
-
---------------------------------------------------
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: "Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Saturday, May 13, 2000 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: TMO Datalogger on a
'95?
> Technically the cars are OBD I. They are OBD I certified
and
> as far as I know OBD I is proprietary from manufacturer to
>
manufacturer (the big "thing" with OBD II is the standardization
> of
hardware and firmware.) Looking at my Spyder, it looks like
> the
hardware is from a OBD II car, but the firmware had not been
> implemented
yet. What someone could do is count the pins on
> either connector
('91-93 and '94-95), then if the numbers happen to
> magically match, take
a volt meter and match the corresponding
> pins. If by some miracle
you could get that far, it wouldn't be
> hard to make an
adapter.
That's what I was thinking... It seems unlikely that
Mitsubishi
would create a new OBD-I standard just for the '94-95 cars,
knowing
that they would need to migrate to OBD-II in 1996 anyways.
Theoretically, it would make more sense to convert to OBD-II
style
harnesses and the "new" ECU connectors so that they wouldn't have
to
change electrical systems for 1996, but still use their previous
OBD-I
"standard" in the ECU - just on different pins in the real
OBD-II
connector. That way they could still use their OBD-I
scan-tool, just
with an adaptor.
Does anyone know for sure if I'm on the right
track? I have no
problems with getting the TMO datalogger and trying to
make an
adaptor to connect it to the right pins, I'm just wondering
if
someone has already tried to go down this path and has failed.
Does
the Mitsu scan tool from '91-93 work on '94-95 ECUs with a
different
connector attached (and maybe software for new features)?
If
it doesn't work, I'm not looking forward to building some sort
of
data-aquisition system for my car. That would truly suck,
compared
to the simplicity of just buying the TMO Datalogger and making
a
connector (I could use the OBD-II connector from the scan tool I
just
bought).
I'll dig out my electrical manual and see if the pins
map together in
any meaningful way... That seems like the best place to
start since
it sounds like nobody has attempted this yet.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
-
------------------------------------------------
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Dan Mecier" <
dmecier@ka.net>
To: "Matt Jannusch"
<
MAJ@BigCharts.com>;
"Team3S"
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, May 15, 2000 6:01 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: TMO Datalogger on a
'95?
I am thinking of doing the same thing. I bought and OBDII
datalogger
for my 94 VR-4 and, of course, it doesn't work. I will use the
plug
assembly to connect to the car and then splice it into a TMO unit.
I
was going to try this out at the Ocean City Gathering but I got
there
late and didn't have time to hook up with the guy that was letting
me
use his TMO. As soon as I get a TMO and get it tested with my
OBDII
plug, I will post here.
Dan
94 3000GT VR-4
3SI - #328
-
---------------------------------------------------
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Jeff" <
spydervr4@home.com>
To: "Team3S"
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, May 23, 2000 10:49 PM
Subject: Team3S: TMO Datalogger on 94-95,
OBDI/II
Just thought I'd let everyone know, I'm in the process of trying
to
get a TMO Datalogger working on my '95 Spyder. My early tests
are
not promising. I made an adapter between the OBDII port and the
TMO
port and it didn't work. I also tried using the TMO cable with
my
adapter, but with OBDII scanner software and no luck either. I
also
tried reversing the data pins on the TMO connector and it didn't
make
any difference. I tried taking 12v power from the fuse block
and
from the OBDII port and it made no difference. (and of course,
my
OBDII cable with OBDII software didn't work cuz the car isn't OBD
II)
I have a few more ideas, but here's what makes me think the
protocol
is different:
When I click "connect" on the TMO software, it
doesn't immediately
find the logger/ECU so it brings up the window that lets
me select
COM port. I click "Connect" on that window with my COM port
selected
and it, most of the time, gives me the message about the
datalogger
not found or 12v power not connected. If I click enough
times it
occasionally tells me it found the logger, so I click "OK" to
exit
the COM port selection. In the bottom right hand corner of
the
logger window the status shows as "not connected" when normally, as
on
my Eclipse, it shows a data rate (samples per second.) Of
course, none
of the functions work.
I'm still working on it, but we '94-95 guys might
just be screwed,
other than the $2200 Snap On Scanner MT2500 with $300
Scangrafix
software.
If anyone has suggestions, let me
know.
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse
GSX
- ------------------------------------------------------------
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
To: "Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, May 23, 2000 10:55 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: TMO Datalogger on 94-95,
OBDI/II
The protocol is definitely different as verified a few years
back by
Todd himself, and also through a few conversations with two
different
ODB-II data logger vendors.
The 94-95 cars are an anomally
when it comes to the partial
implementation of ODB-II and there does not seem
to be any tool
currently avaiable that supports these years
directly.
Barry
-
----------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:00:17
+0100
From: Gordon Tyrrell <
gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com>
Subject:
Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4 gearbox anyway??
Can someone
tell me exactly what the weak component in the VR4 gearbox
is? And why the
hell is it not possible to just get it replaced with a
better quality part?
I had gearbox work done on an MR2 turbo for a faulty synchro but
decided
to get the whole thing worked over while it was apart. The place I
used
didn't use Toyota parts but all were of a higher grade then std.
This
isn't rocket science and parts for these things are made by
size
normally and not specifically for one model of car (I'm sure some
bits
are car specific). The likes of bearings etc are sized as far as I know.
Surely it's possible to go to a good gearbox repair shop and just
get
higher grade kit fitted to the 'box and then tune to your
hearts
content.
Don't flame me here. I'm just confused about how a
company can have a
car out for almost 10 years with a gearbox that's a bag of
shit and not
have come up with some solution????
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:21:07
CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Removal of Pre-Cats
I would highly recommend getting the rest
of the material out of the other
pre-cat. It will start to peel away
and get stuck either in your main cat
(if you have one) or in one of your
mufflers.
I had my pre-cats bored out pretty good, and after a year, I
took off my HKS
exhaust and a hand full of pre-cat material fell
out.
Pre-cat gutting is an ugly job, but take the time and get out all
the
material.
later,
Curt
CarParts at:
http://www.mn3s.org/car-parts.html>From:
Nick Xiong <
nxiong@juno.com>
>To:
captainrye@hotmail.com>CC:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
Re: Team3S: Removal of Pre-Cats
>Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 19:28:48
-0400
>
>do it when you feel like... SUPERMAN!!! I just did it
today. Fronts are
>EASY to due the fact that you can remove it &
hack away w/ a 1" wood
>boring bit. Rears are a diff animal because
it's not easily removed &
>you will breath & be blinded by
metallic dust/hot metal flying down... I
>was able to fully gut the fronts
I GAVE UP on the rears after I got a
>blinded one too many times &
breathed enuff dust & got a BIG enuff
>headache... safety goggles
DIDN'T HELP. did get a 1.5" hole thru the
>rears though... perhaps
on another day when I feel like superman, again.
>
>but I can now
hear the spool up & down fr the turbos now ;-) and the car
>is
freaking LOUD. I installed the ATR DP at the same time.
combined
>w/the infamous Borla makes a killer
sound.
________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 07:32:16
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: G-Force ecu, VPC?
The G-force is not needed at all for any
turbo and/or fuel upgrades.
What is needed is a way to fool the stock ECU.
This can be done by 1)
eliminating the MAS and replacing with the VPC kit
(not made anymore
is my understanding); 2) by changing the signal coming from
the stock
MAS to the stock ECU using the a device like the Super AFC; or 3)
by
replacing the stock MAS with the ARC2 kit and sending a modified
MAS
signal to the stock ECU.
I have the ARC2 with 15G turbos and ND
550 cc/min injectors. The car
functions just like stock (except of course the
stock ECU cannot
handle 550s and the car is just a bit quicker). The G-force
mod is
like $800 and programmed for ONE setup. The ARC2 kit is like
$1000
but can handle anything from completely stock to 720s and
GT-368SX
turbos. The new SAFC can supposedly handle +50% increase in
fuel
(almost 550s), based on RPM, and has some load-based
adjustability.
If you stay with the stock MAS, there is a possibility that
more air
volume may pass through it (with 15Gs) than it can count and I
don't
think any conditioning device can compensate for this.
Check out
my web site for my mods list plus links to all major 3S
organizations, FAQ
pages, 127 owner sites, and hundreds of vendors.
Jeff Lucius, 3SI #476,
StealthMan92@yahoo.comRed 1992
Stealth TT - modified
-->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue Smith" <
saintsue@netzero.net>
To: "Team 3/S
List" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Saturday, July 15, 2000 7:44 PM
Subject: Team3S: G-Force ecu,
VPC?
Surely some of you have had this mod done. I plan on upgrading
my
turbos and fuel system and that's it. I currently have K&N,
exhaust,
boost controller. Would the G-force give me OEM type
driveability
with the new fuel upgrades? I know that if I upgraded
further that I
would probably have to get a new one, but I'm not worried
about that.
I have heard some pretty good things about the ARC ... does
anyone
use the VPC & SAFC currently or previously with upgraded turbos,
fuel
system, etc and had it have good daily driveability in low rpms,
mid,
and high as well as partial throttle, etc?
Jack T. : did you use
VPC, and are you currently running
it?
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo!?
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Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:48:59
EDT
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Team3S:
DSM Shootout -
Unable to attend due to Murphy's Law. My car is still not
ready. I really
wanted to run it at this event. If all goes well another 2,
(two), (II) weeks
should do it! The main problem was the delay on getting
the turbos and
flanges. Although, Allied Signal said they would sell us the
Garrett Turbos
they reneged and we had to pay double the price to buy
through HKS. Then HKS
never sent the needed flanges for these and we ended
up having to make our
own custom flanges. Without the flanges, we couldn't
make the manifolds.
Everything was delayed. It felt like a conspiracy to
keep us from having the
parts? On the bright side, under the hood looks so
mean it's awesome. I may
never have to race it - If I open the hood
everybody will just surrender.
That's how sick this setup looks :)
Arty
91 VR-4 (close, real close)
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:15:35
+0100
From: Gordon Tyrrell <
gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Fuel octane problems?
My car is a Japanese import. In japan it is
run on 100octane pump gas
but here we don't even have 98octane anymore as
it's being phased out.
I'm left with a max of 95 at the pump. Could this be
the cause of some
odd running in the car and if so is there a way of setting
the car up to
run on the lower octane. My japanese import MR2 Turbo had the
same
problem but the cars computer was capable of adjusting the timing
itself
so I didn't have to worry about engine damage.
P.S.
I don't
want to get into adding octane boosters unless I absolutely
have
to.
Thanks
Gordon
Dublin, Ireland
1993 Japanese Import
VR4
http://fly.to/mr2.ie***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:45:52
-0700
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Datalogger
> knock. Is the OBDII spec a secret
or is there somewhere we can get our
> hands on one so someone can produce
a datalogger.
There are a bunch of web sites that contain info on OBD
II. Just do some
browsing. There is a list of books on OBD II at
http://www.obd-2.com/books.htmland
some info at
http://www.obdii.com
etc.
If someone is truely serious about working on such a tool, I might
be able to
obtain the OBD II protocol from CARB (I used to work on their
automotive data
acquisition system for emissions testing) if it isn't
already publically
available.
- --
Forget world peace -- visualize
using your turn signal!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General
Atomics
San Diego
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:55:58
EST
From: "Rick H." <
tt_3kgt@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 3000GT - New to the List
Hello,
I am
obviously new to the list and have only had my car now about 1 1/2
weeks. I was a previous owner of NUMEROUS 2nd Gen Rx-7's both turbos
and
n/a. I am extremely pleased with my upgrade to the monster 3000GT
VR4.
Just a run down on the car.. It is a 93' with all options
available. Very
well maintained and only has the minor of minor
problems (mostly interior).
Paint is about 3 months old and is
flawless and the leather was redone in
February. Green Ext / Black
Int.
I guess that I am really just looking for advice
for the car on upgrades
and maintenance. I have been looking through
the
www.3si.org website and
there is allot
of valuable information there. I would say that being a
performance
enthusiast that I want to have a sound running machine but with
allot of
power. I can handle the whole gas mpg drop :)
From the 3si.org website there are numerous different stages to go
through
with the vehicle. Right now my focus is to have the car in stage 4
by the
end of September and Stage 9 by the end of March when the car comes
out of
the garage from hibernation. Any pointers or advice in doing this is
highly appreciated. Other things such as preferred fluids and things
of
that nature are appreciated also. I am not looking for allot of
unsafe
power. I wanna go through the steps and make some real safe
ass-kickin
power! :)
For my final question .. Is
there anyone on this list that is close to
Indianapolis? I am south of
Indianapolis and would like to speak with some
people around me. Anyone with
parts for sale on the list?
Rick
1993 3KGT
VR4
________________________________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:18:55
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Well...shoot.
Oh man..lost me badly there.
When I was
doing the diag. on the pump relay, it wanted me to look for 12v
at
pin62.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius [
mailto:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
Sent:
Monday, July 17, 2000 6:16 AM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Well...shoot.
Jeff,
Pin 62 is IG switched power
for OBDI-style ECU. Pin 82 is IG switched
power in 1995 OBDII-style ECU. They
both have the same relative
position, that is, bottom row, and first pin
after right-most
divided. Or working from right to left, bottom row, last pin
before
the divider. Pin 62 ('95 ECU) is located just to the left of
the
divider and is not listed in the ECU termonal voltage inspection
chart
for OBDII ECUs (so may not be used, thus no power). See section
13A-183
(OBDI) and 13A-280 (OBDII) in file 3_96c.pdf from manuals
on
CD.
Assuming you are actually checking pin 82, then you may need to
work
back to the ignition switch to check for power.
Jeff Lucius, 3SI
#476,
StealthMan92@yahoo.comRed
1992 Stealth TT - modified
-->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/The
new 3/S Backup CD Homepage
-->
http://www.manualcd.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Sunday, July 16, 2000 8:29 PM
Subject: Team3S: Well...shoot.
Can
anyone who can read a wiring map better than me, assist me in WHY
wire #62 on
a 95 VR4 ECU isnt getting 12v? I cant find where the
other end of that
wire will be.
I havent removed a single relay or sensor..now car wont
start...I
dont hear the standard click from the EFI relay..so thats where
im
troubleshooting at the
moment.
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:19:54
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4 gearbox anyway??
The weak
link is the driver.
I know that sounds bad..but its true.
The
target market for the VR4 was not the race crowd.
All things being equal,
Getrag builds a TOUGH gearbox...we could have ended up
with a Mitsubishi
built one ya know.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Tyrrell
[
mailto:gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com]
Sent:
Monday, July 17, 2000 7:00 AM
To: gto
Subject: Team3S: What the hell is
wrong with the VR4 gearbox anyway??
Can someone tell me exactly what
the weak component in the VR4 gearbox
is? And why the hell is it not possible
to just get it replaced with a
better quality part?
I had gearbox
work done on an MR2 turbo for a faulty synchro but decided
to get the whole
thing worked over while it was apart. The place I used
didn't use Toyota
parts but all were of a higher grade then std. This
isn't rocket science and
parts for these things are made by size
normally and not specifically for one
model of car (I'm sure some bits
are car specific). The likes of bearings etc
are sized as far as I know.
Surely it's possible to go to a good gearbox
repair shop and just get
higher grade kit fitted to the 'box and then tune to
your hearts
content.
Don't flame me here. I'm just confused about how
a company can have a
car out for almost 10 years with a gearbox that's a bag
of shit and not
have come up with some solution????
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:44:31
-0700
From: Daniel Jett <
djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject:
Re: RE: Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4 gearbox
anyway??
Geoff,
I beg to differ.
The weak link is most
definitely the lack of aftermarket service/support pertaining to these trannies.
Period.
Cars in our segment have had more fortune with their stock
transmissions than ours, up to and including Porsche AWD systems, by Getrag. The
numbers, I'm sure, speak for themselves.
Now that we are finally getting
a little more support/parts/service, things are getting better. You bring up an
interesting point about the driver issue, though. I do believe that the driver
has a lot to do with premature tranny failure, and for those of us who are
"nice" to our transmissions, we probably see more longevity. However, I think
the same can be said with any make/model of car. The level of abuse that
our trannies can support, I think, is much less than our
counterparts.
Dan J
94 Stealth TT
(By the way, give me a call
sometime...If you need help with your project, I may be
available!)
>>> <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com> - 7/17/00
9:19 AM >>>
The weak link is the driver.
I know that sounds
bad..but its true.
The target market for the VR4 was not the race
crowd.
All things being equal, Getrag builds a TOUGH gearbox...we could
have ended up
with a Mitsubishi built one ya know.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Gordon Tyrrell [
mailto:gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com]
Sent:
Monday, July 17, 2000 7:00 AM
To: gto
Subject: Team3S: What the hell is
wrong with the VR4 gearbox anyway??
Can someone tell me exactly what
the weak component in the VR4 gearbox
is? And why the hell is it not possible
to just get it replaced with a
better quality part?
I had gearbox
work done on an MR2 turbo for a faulty synchro but decided
to get the whole
thing worked over while it was apart. The place I used
didn't use Toyota
parts but all were of a higher grade then std. This
isn't rocket science and
parts for these things are made by size
normally and not specifically for one
model of car (I'm sure some bits
are car specific). The likes of bearings etc
are sized as far as I know.
Surely it's possible to go to a good gearbox
repair shop and just get
higher grade kit fitted to the 'box and then tune to
your hearts
content.
Don't flame me here. I'm just confused about how
a company can have a
car out for almost 10 years with a gearbox that's a bag
of shit and not
have come up with some solution????
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
!
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:57:12
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4 gearbox anyway??
But if we
would have a Mitsubishi Built gearbox (I'm referring to the
VR-4's, not the
NA's like mine) Then with that Mitsubishi built gearbox, at
least you
could EASILY get replacement parts, and not have to paya n arm and
a leg just
cause one synchro messed up, and you weren't lucky enough to buy
one when
they were available.
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSent: Monday,
July 17, 2000 11:20 AM
To:
gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4
gearbox
anyway??
The weak link is the driver.
I know that
sounds bad..but its true.
The target market for the VR4 was not the race
crowd.
All things being equal, Getrag builds a TOUGH gearbox...we could
have ended
up
with a Mitsubishi built one ya know.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Gordon Tyrrell [
mailto:gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com]
Sent:
Monday, July 17, 2000 7:00 AM
To: gto
Subject: Team3S: What the hell is
wrong with the VR4 gearbox anyway??
Can someone tell me exactly what
the weak component in the VR4 gearbox
is? And why the hell is it not possible
to just get it replaced with a
better quality part?
I had gearbox work
done on an MR2 turbo for a faulty synchro but decided
to get the whole thing
worked over while it was apart. The place I used
didn't use Toyota parts but
all were of a higher grade then std. This
isn't rocket science and parts for
these things are made by size
normally and not specifically for one model of
car (I'm sure some bits
are car specific). The likes of bearings etc are
sized as far as I know.
Surely it's possible to go to a good gearbox
repair shop and just get
higher grade kit fitted to the 'box and then tune to
your hearts
content.
Don't flame me here. I'm just confused about how
a company can have a
car out for almost 10 years with a gearbox that's a bag
of shit and not
have come up with some solution????
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#203
*********************
team3s
Monday, July 17
2000
Volume 01 : Number
204
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:58:44 -0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
RE: Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4 gearbox anywa
y??
Geoff,
I beg to differ.
The weak link is most
definitely the lack of aftermarket service/support
pertaining to these
trannies. Period.
- ---
This was brought up in a pvt. Email I got as
well.
Simple answer. It was never in Mitsubishi's best interest to
deliver a
gut-wrenching sports car (even tho the platform IS capable of it
with only minor
OEM adjustments that would have barely impacted dealer cost),
so it follows that
it is again not in Mitsu's best interest to support or
acknowledge ANY form of
aftermarket parts availability (even if it was
possible via the parts counter)
Case in point: The MK4 crowd enjoys
the fact that a Toyota dealer went out of
thier way (With company support) in
outsourcing full replacement parts for the
Getrag boxes in thier cars.
Whereas -we- have had to absorb the R&D.
Cars in our segment
have had more fortune with their stock transmissions than
ours, up to and
including Porsche AWD systems, by Getrag. The numbers, I'm sure,
speak for
themselves.
- ---
Is that car also a transversly mounted system?
Thats where the main difficulty
lies im sure.
Now that we are finally
getting a little more support/parts/service, things are
getting better. You
bring up an interesting point about the driver issue,
though. I do believe
that the driver has a lot to do with premature tranny
failure, and for those
of us who are "nice" to our transmissions, we probably
see more longevity.
However, I think the same can be said with any make/model of
car. The
level of abuse that our trannies can support, I think, is much less
than our
counterparts.
- ---
Which is why I bring up the design of our
'counterparts'. Transversly mounted
trannies just..are a horrible
design to begin with. Im sure the Porsche started
out as a proper
design before they did AWD, where the VR4 is still a weak FWD
car, with
wow..a hacked together RWD add-on.
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:03:25
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: RE: Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4
gearboxanyway??
>Now that we are finally getting a little more
support/parts/service,
things are getting better. You bring up an interesting
point about the
driver issue, though. I do believe that the driver has a lot
to do with
premature tranny failure, and for those of us who are "nice" to
our
transmissions, we probably see more longevity.
Sorry, no. The 2nd
gear synchro is definitely the weak link in our
trannies, and it goes bad no
matter how you drive the car. It seems to go
bad at 35-60,000 miles, which is
why nobody should ever buy one of our cars
without getting an extended
warranty.
Rich/old poop
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:59:39
-0400
From: Brian Geisel <
brian.geisel@compaq.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 3000GT - New to the List
Rick,
Welcome
to the list! You'll probably find that modifications to the
VR4
will
be pretty similar to the Turbo RX-7s. One difference though
is our turbo
setup. RX-7 is sequential IIRC, VR4 are 2 identically
sized turbos that boost
together. On our cars the "fuzzy logic" boost
controllers work just fine.
Basically, from the
engine, you look to build boost as safely as possible.
You
can run just
about 1.00 bar (about 14.5) psi stock without pinging. After
that
you need to instal water/alcho injection or run race gas,
etc.
If you include braking on your list of "safely"
then you definitely want to
upgrade the brakes. Stock sucks.
The biggest problem is the rubber brake
lines. You can get steel
braided for about $200. I would say rotors next,
maybe pads. I
did my pads with the lines so I don't know how bad our stock
pads are.
A lot of guys run porterfield cyrogenically treated rotors for
autox,
but
for hard street or 1/4 mi driving, a good set of cross drilled (from
the
Bremo cores - not stock cores) should do well. Stillen makes a
decent
set, but if you're auto-x-ing, they tend to
crack.
The other difference between the RX-7 and VR-4
is weight. Not just
weight in the car, but the drivetrain weight (AWD,
chrome wheels, etc).
1 wheel/tire weighs in at about 52 lbs. Cutting
that down helps quite a
bit as well.
HTH &
enjoy!
geis
"Rick H." wrote:
>
Hello,
>
> I am obviously new to the list
and have only had my car now about 1 1/2
> weeks. I was a previous
owner of NUMEROUS 2nd Gen Rx-7's both turbos and
> n/a. I am
extremely pleased with my upgrade to the monster 3000GT VR4.
> Just a run
down on the car.. It is a 93' with all options available. Very
>
well maintained and only has the minor of minor problems (mostly
interior).
> Paint is about 3 months old and is flawless and the leather
was redone in
> February. Green Ext / Black
Int.
>
> I guess that I am really just
looking for advice for the car on upgrades
> and maintenance. I have
been looking through the
www.3si.org website
and
> there is allot of valuable information there. I would say that
being a
> performance enthusiast that I want to have a sound running
machine but with
> allot of power. I can handle the whole gas mpg
drop :)
>
> From the 3si.org website there
are numerous different stages to go
> through with the vehicle. Right now
my focus is to have the car in stage 4
> by the end of September and Stage
9 by the end of March when the car comes
> out of the garage from
hibernation. Any pointers or advice in doing this is
> highly
appreciated. Other things such as preferred fluids and things of
>
that nature are appreciated also. I am not looking for allot of
unsafe
> power. I wanna go through the steps and make some real safe
ass-kickin
> power! :)
>
> For my
final question .. Is there anyone on this list that is close to
>
Indianapolis? I am south of Indianapolis and would like to speak with
some
> people around me. Anyone with parts for sale on the
list?
>
> Rick
> 1993 3KGT VR4
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com>
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:59:09
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4 gearbox anyway??
Ya..but it
wouldnt be worth the monthly swaps.
- -----Original Message-----
From:
cody [
mailto:overclck@flash.net]
Sent: Monday,
July 17, 2000 9:57 AM
To: Mohler, Jeff
Cc: Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S:
What the hell is wrong with the VR4 gearbox
anyway??
But if we
would have a Mitsubishi Built gearbox (I'm referring to the
VR-4's, not the
NA's like mine) Then with that Mitsubishi built gearbox, at
least you
could EASILY get replacement parts, and not have to paya n arm and
a leg just
cause one synchro messed up, and you weren't lucky enough to buy
one when
they were available.
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSent: Monday,
July 17, 2000 11:20 AM
To:
gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4
gearbox
anyway??
The weak link is the driver.
I know that
sounds bad..but its true.
The target market for the VR4 was not the race
crowd.
All things being equal, Getrag builds a TOUGH gearbox...we could
have ended
up
with a Mitsubishi built one ya know.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Gordon Tyrrell [
mailto:gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com]
Sent:
Monday, July 17, 2000 7:00 AM
To: gto
Subject: Team3S: What the hell is
wrong with the VR4 gearbox anyway??
Can someone tell me exactly what
the weak component in the VR4 gearbox
is? And why the hell is it not possible
to just get it replaced with a
better quality part?
I had gearbox work
done on an MR2 turbo for a faulty synchro but decided
to get the whole thing
worked over while it was apart. The place I used
didn't use Toyota parts but
all were of a higher grade then std. This
isn't rocket science and parts for
these things are made by size
normally and not specifically for one model of
car (I'm sure some bits
are car specific). The likes of bearings etc are
sized as far as I know.
Surely it's possible to go to a good gearbox
repair shop and just get
higher grade kit fitted to the 'box and then tune to
your hearts
content.
Don't flame me here. I'm just confused about how
a company can have a
car out for almost 10 years with a gearbox that's a bag
of shit and not
have come up with some solution????
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:30:40
-0700
From: Daniel Jett <
djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject:
Re: RE: RE: Team3S: What the hell is wrong with the VR4 gearbox
anyway??
I agree that the transverse mounting of our engines is less than
ideal, but the transmission doesn't care what direction it is mounted. As was
brought up by Rich, the synchro issue is the Achilles heal, so to
speak.
I do think driver input has a lot to do with tranny failure. I am
on my second Turbo, and have yet to encounter ANY transmission related failures.
I am not typically aggresive when launching, and I pay particular attention to
matching rev's, and not power shifting/slamming the transmission into gear. Had
I been more aggresive, I would not be surprised if my tranny failed.
I
don't thnk anyone will argue that getting parts/service has been the bane of our
transmissions.
Dan
>>> <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com> - 7/17/00
9:58 AM >>>
Geoff,
I beg to differ.
The weak link is
most definitely the lack of aftermarket service/support
pertaining to these
trannies. Period.
- ---
This was brought up in a pvt. Email I got as
well.
Simple answer. It was never in Mitsubishi's best interest to
deliver a
gut-wrenching sports car (even tho the platform IS capable of it
with only minor
OEM adjustments that would have barely impacted dealer cost),
so it follows that
it is again not in Mitsu's best interest to support or
acknowledge ANY form of
aftermarket parts availability (even if it was
possible via the parts counter)
Case in point: The MK4 crowd enjoys
the fact that a Toyota dealer went out of
thier way (With company support) in
outsourcing full replacement parts for the
Getrag boxes in thier cars.
Whereas -we- have had to absorb the R&D.
Cars in our segment
have had more fortune with their stock transmissions than
ours, up to and
including Porsche AWD systems, by Getrag. The numbers, I'm sure,
speak for
themselves.
- ---
Is that car also a transversly mounted system?
Thats where the main difficulty
lies im sure.
Now that we are finally
getting a little more support/parts/service, things are
getting better. You
bring up an interesting point about the driver issue,
though. I do believe
that the driver has a lot to do with premature tranny
failure, and for those
of us who are "nice" to our transmissions, we probably
see more longevity.
However, I think the same can be said with any make/model of
car. The
level of abuse that our trannies can support, I think, is much less
than our
counterparts.
- ---
Which is why I bring up the design of our
'counterparts'. Transversly mounted
trannies just..are a horrible
design to begin with. Im sure the Porsche started
out as a proper
design before they did AWD, where the VR4 is still a weak FWD
car, with
wow..a hacked together RWD
add-on.
!
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:31:15
-0700
From: "Steve Gula" <
mrelloco@eudoramail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 1/4 mile times with 13G upgrade - Any room for
improvement?
There's definitely room for improvement, as Mike Mahaffey
has pulled low 12's on the stock 9b turbos. Your 60' time looks pretty good. How
quickly do you shift? How long does it take you before you hit WOT in 1st? I'd
look for a bad vacuum somewhere... And definitely tune your air/fuel ratio...
then again.. I don't own a TT nor have I ever been to a drag strip.. heh... just
some thoughts.
- ---
-
------------------------------------------------
- --Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula
(
loco3kgt@ec3s.org)
- --1995 Glacier
White Pearl 3000GT
- ------------------
- --East Coast 3000GT/Stealth
-
--http://www.ec3s.org/
-
------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 17 Jul 2000
02:22:32 Veilside GTO wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>I
attended the July 16th Woodburn Import Challenge to tune my VR4
finally!!!
>Here is the best time I ran with the 13G
upgrade:
>
>R/T ... 0.391
>60' ... 1.775
>330 ...
5.214
>1/8 ... 8.131
>MPH ... 85.73
>1000 ...
10.587
>1/4 ...12.650 @ 109.55
>
>Launched my baby at about
4000 rpm. Full dump. Passenger seat out, no rear
>seats. Tires pressure
dropped before staging and Tein coilovers set at a
>pretty stiff
setting. Temperature on that day: 78F; Relative Humidity: 50
>Absolute
Barometric 30.95
>
>I feel I did not maximzie the full potential of
my turbos. I ran with pump
>gas as this event was not really big - bunch
of Integras and Civics.... and
>with just the NGK's and not the Denzo
Irridium plugs. My Super AFC was maxed
>out on the last three knobs -30. I
was running 1.2 bar of boost.
>
>Question: Was there more I could
have done besides adding in race gas and
>changing the plugs to racing
ones? I am still running pretty rich based on
>the A/F gauge and my EGT's
were not at any dangerous levels. Errin and I
>suspect that this could be
due to a leaky blow off valve. I have the old gen
>HKS blow off valve and
intend to get the newer model. This aside, can anyone
>provide any
suggestions as to how I can improve my times at the track?
>
>I know
off some on this list who have ran far better times than what I ran
>with
the 13G upgrade. I am not entirely disappointed as this is my first
>time
in the 12 sec frame and am pretty glad that I am making some
headway.
>;)
>
>Thanks,
>
>Hoping for better times
ahead especially at NIRA....... :))))
>
>Julian Huang
>94
Mitsubishi Veilside Tein TEC GTO tt
>Team 3S
>Seattle,
Washington
>
gtovr4@postalzone.com>
>
>
>***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free
Eudora Web-Mail account at
http://www.eudoramail.com***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:20:41
-0700
From: "Chris Maxwell" <
shmacker@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Clutch problem continues...
Well, I just bled the clutch and took it for
a drive. It felt fine for
about 3 blocks and then the problem that I
was talking about started again.
The problem is that the engage point for the
clutch moves. Sometimes it is
near the floor and other times it is much
higher up. It's almost like there
is air in the system and perhaps
there is. It worked fine RIGHT after I
bled it but feels the same after
about a mile. Is it possible that air is
being introduced into the line
somewhere? Perhaps a bad clutch master
cylinder or booster? This
is very troublesome...
Thanks again,
Chris
92 R/T
TT
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:11:00
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Clutch problem continues...
I vote on cylinder..even without
reading the whole message I wanted to just
reply with that.
Sounds
like one of the cylinders is leaking pressure on you.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Chris Maxwell [
mailto:shmacker@home.com]
Sent: Monday,
July 17, 2000 12:21 PM
To:
stealth@stls.verio.net;
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Clutch problem continues...
Well, I just bled the clutch and
took it for a drive. It felt fine for
about 3 blocks and then the
problem that I was talking about started again.
The problem is that the
engage point for the clutch moves. Sometimes it is
near the floor and
other times it is much higher up. It's almost like there
is air in the
system and perhaps there is. It worked fine RIGHT after I
bled it but
feels the same after about a mile. Is it possible that air is
being
introduced into the line somewhere? Perhaps a bad clutch
master
cylinder or booster? This is very troublesome...
Thanks
again,
Chris
92 R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:24:58
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Well...shoot.
Jeff,
I could not find that any year or
any model (NA or turbo) MFI relay
or fuel pump relay connected to pin 62( or
82 for that matter) on any
model ECU. A 1995 VR4 has 2 relays and OBDII-type
ECU connector. What
manual are you working from? I don't think pin 62 will be
any help
unless you are checking to see that an OBDI-style ECU has
power.
The 1995 VR4 MFI relay connects to ECU pin 8 directly and to pin
31
indirectly through the fuel pump relay. ECU pin 31 is switched by
the
MFI relay with a resistance to ground inside the fuel pump
relay.
Voltage may also change on pin 8 when the MFI relay is on vs
off.
However, none of the manual's inspections involve the ECU,
only
harness and equipment-side connectors.
Any clearer?
Jeff
Lucius, 3SI #476,
StealthMan92@yahoo.comRed 1992
Stealth TT - modified
-->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/-
----- Original Message -----
From: <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To:
<
stealthman92@yahoo.com>;
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, July 17, 2000 10:18 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Well...shoot.
Oh
man..lost me badly there.
When I was doing the diag. on the pump relay,
it wanted me to look
for 12v at
pin62.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius [
mailto:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
Sent:
Monday, July 17, 2000 6:16 AM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Well...shoot.
Jeff,
Pin 62 is IG switched power for
OBDI-style ECU. Pin 82 is IG switched
power in 1995 OBDII-style ECU. They
both have the same relative
position, that is, bottom row, and first pin
after right-most
divided. Or working from right to left, bottom row, last pin
before
the divider. Pin 62 ('95 ECU) is located just to the left of
the
divider and is not listed in the ECU termonal voltage inspection
chart
for OBDII ECUs (so may not be used, thus no power). See section
13A-183
(OBDI) and 13A-280 (OBDII) in file 3_96c.pdf from manuals
on
CD.
Assuming you are actually checking pin 82, then you may need to
work
back to the ignition switch to check for power.
Jeff Lucius, 3SI
#476,
StealthMan92@yahoo.comRed
1992 Stealth TT - modified
-->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/The
new 3/S Backup CD Homepage
-->
http://www.manualcd.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Sunday, July 16, 2000 8:29 PM
Subject: Team3S: Well...shoot.
Can
anyone who can read a wiring map better than me, assist me in WHY
wire #62 on
a 95 VR4 ECU isnt getting 12v? I cant find where the
other end of that
wire will be.
I havent removed a single relay or sensor..now car wont
start...I
dont hear the standard click from the EFI relay..so thats where
im
troubleshooting at the
moment.
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:53:15
-0400
From: "Dan Mecier" <
dmecier@ka.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re:
Datalogger
>>There are a bunch of web sites that contain info on
OBD II. Just do some
>>browsing. There is a list of books
on OBD II at
http://www.obd-2.com/books.html>>and
some info at
http://www.obdii.com
etc.
Unfortunately OBDII doesn't work on 94-95 cars. There are lots of
OBDII
tools available for 96+ cars.
Dan
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:23:08
-0700
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Datalogger
Dan Mecier wrote:
>
>
>>There are a bunch of web sites that contain info on OBD II. Just
do some
> >>browsing. There is a list of books on OBD II
at
>
http://www.obd-2.com/books.html>
>>and some info at
http://www.obdii.com
etc.
>
> Unfortunately OBDII doesn't work on 94-95 cars. There are
lots of OBDII
> tools available for 96+ cars.
Yes, but are there
any reasonably priced OBD II tools that work for our cars
(Asian) that
monitor knock? Last time I looked I couldn't find any.
- --
Forget world peace -- visualize using your turn signal!
Ken Middaugh
(858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:37:42
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Well...shoot.
Ya..it is some.
Basically..the relay no
go clickie when I turn on the key.
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
| Get your FREE
Speedtoys.com/net/org Email/WWW account at: |
|
accounts@speedtoys.com. Include
preferred name and |
| password (hey..its free, no
fancy CGI passwd thingie here
|
|
plus a 40Mb quota to
boot).
|
- -------------------------------------------------------------
On
Mon, 17 Jul 2000, Jeff Lucius wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> I could
not find that any year or any model (NA or turbo) MFI relay
> or fuel pump
relay connected to pin 62( or 82 for that matter) on any
> model ECU. A
1995 VR4 has 2 relays and OBDII-type ECU connector. What
> manual are you
working from? I don't think pin 62 will be any help
> unless you are
checking to see that an OBDI-style ECU has power.
>
> The 1995 VR4
MFI relay connects to ECU pin 8 directly and to pin 31
> indirectly
through the fuel pump relay. ECU pin 31 is switched by the
> MFI relay
with a resistance to ground inside the fuel pump relay.
> Voltage may also
change on pin 8 when the MFI relay is on vs off.
> However, none of the
manual's inspections involve the ECU, only
> harness and equipment-side
connectors.
>
> Any clearer?
>
> Jeff Lucius, 3SI
#476,
StealthMan92@yahoo.com>
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified
> -->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
> To:
<
stealthman92@yahoo.com>;
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 10:18 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S:
Well...shoot.
>
> Oh man..lost me badly there.
>
>
When I was doing the diag. on the pump relay, it wanted me to look
> for
12v at
> pin62.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Jeff Lucius [
mailto:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 6:16 AM
> To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Well...shoot.
>
> Jeff,
>
> Pin
62 is IG switched power for OBDI-style ECU. Pin 82 is IG switched
> power
in 1995 OBDII-style ECU. They both have the same relative
> position, that
is, bottom row, and first pin after right-most
> divided. Or working from
right to left, bottom row, last pin before
> the divider. Pin 62 ('95 ECU)
is located just to the left of the
> divider and is not listed in the ECU
termonal voltage inspection
> chart for OBDII ECUs (so may not be used,
thus no power). See section
> 13A-183 (OBDI) and 13A-280 (OBDII) in file
3_96c.pdf from manuals on
> CD.
>
> Assuming you are actually
checking pin 82, then you may need to work
> back to the ignition switch
to check for power.
>
> Jeff Lucius, 3SI #476,
StealthMan92@yahoo.com> Red 1992
Stealth TT - modified
> -->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/>
The new 3/S Backup CD Homepage
> -->
http://www.manualcd.com/>
>
----- Original Message -----
> From: <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
> To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 8:29 PM
> Subject: Team3S:
Well...shoot.
>
> Can anyone who can read a wiring map better than
me, assist me in WHY
> wire #62 on a 95 VR4 ECU isnt getting 12v? I
cant find where the
> other end of that wire will be.
>
> I
havent removed a single relay or sensor..now car wont start...I
> dont
hear the standard click from the EFI relay..so thats where im
>
troubleshooting at the moment.
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
> Do You
Yahoo!?
> Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from
anywhere!
>
http://mail.yahoo.com/>
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:39:13
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: NA Rear Shocks?
Ok, so shox.com told me that GAB only makes
shocks for the rears of the
VR-4. Anyone know if there is a difference
in the mounting structure
between the VR-4 and the NA cars? I know the
SL doesn't have 4WS and has
ECS on it. I assume that it's the same as the
VR-4 ECS, so I'm guessing the
4WS doesn't affect the shock type.
My stock struts are shot and the shocks are going, so I figure I'll
do
all 4 corners at once. I plan to go with GABs in the front, and
would
like to put them in the rear as well...anyone know if they'll fit in a
NA
'95 3000GT? It's not lowered or anything, just replacing the
stock
struts/shocks. So will GAB shocks for the SL/VR-4 fit my
car?
- --Erik
-
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (NA, DOHC,
5-speed) 72,000
mi
Firestone Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock
wheels
Magnacor KV85 spark plug wires, NGK plugs @
0.040"
K&N FIPK (57-1500), Mobil 1 10W30 w/ OEM oil
filter
'94 Algae Blue "Ain't No 3000"
Corolla
68,000mi
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:43:01
-0400
From: "Michael S. Steinebach" <
mikala.s@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Car Covers.
What do you guy's recommend for a car cover... I bought a 30
dollar POS and
rain went right through it.
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Chris Maxwell
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 3:21 PM
To:
stealth@stls.verio.net;
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Clutch problem continues...
Well, I just bled the clutch and
took it for a drive. It felt fine for
about 3 blocks and then the
problem that I was talking about started again.
The problem is that the
engage point for the clutch moves. Sometimes it is
near the floor and
other times it is much higher up. It's almost like there
is air in the
system and perhaps there is. It worked fine RIGHT after I
bled it but
feels the same after about a mile. Is it possible that air is
being
introduced into the line somewhere? Perhaps a bad clutch
master
cylinder or booster? This is very troublesome...
Thanks
again,
Chris
92 R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:45:59
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Fog Light Bulb Replacement Procedure?
Ok, I guess I'm just
clueless. I looked at the service manual for the
replacement procedure
for the stock projector-type fog light bulbs ('94+)
and I can't seem to
figure out how to get the friggin thing off. I got my
H1 bulb and was
all set to replace it, and I can't even get the black
plastic shield
off! The manual seems to indicate that you don't have to
remove the
whole assembly, but I don't see how. I took the driver's
side
undercover off and can get to the back of the light assembly, but I
don't
see how to get that off, either :( Help!?!
-
--Erik
-
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (NA, DOHC,
5-speed) 72,000
mi
Firestone Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock
wheels
Magnacor KV85 spark plug wires, NGK plugs @
0.040"
K&N FIPK (57-1500), Mobil 1 10W30 w/ OEM oil
filter
'94 Algae Blue "Ain't No 3000"
Corolla
68,000mi
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 23:54:57
+0200
From: "Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Team3S:
Air/vacum ports
Hi
On the intake manifold there is three
air/vacuum ports located near the
throttle body.
Do those ports reads
both pressure and vacuum or just pressure? (in other
words, are the ports
positioned before or after the throttle plate?)
/Mikael Kenson
http://www.3000gt.nu***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:51:34
-0400
From: Denny Maderi <
dmaderi@iname.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Engine Control Module
I own a '93 stealth ES, over the past week or so I
have had some
problems with the vehicle and hard starting. In combination
with the
hard starting I have also noticed a unusual sequence of very
fast
clicking noises coming from what seems right behind the radio. So I
got
the service manual out and looked at some wiring schematics. If found
a
relay right behind the passenger side kick panel, the book refers to
it
as two things 1)the engine control relay & 2)The MFI relay. I
was
wondering if anyone has had any problems with the relay I am
talking
about and if it was clicking very fast and unusually just as the key
is
turned to the 'on' position if this would cause the engine to
start
hard. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. And as per always
I
enjoy reading everyone's e-mail's and have learned a considerable
amount
of info and techy stuff from this list. It's one of the 'BEST' lists
I
am a member of!!!
Thanks!!!
- -Deano
Syracuse, NY
'93
Stealth ES
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:05:05
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Engine Control Module
> I own a '93 stealth ES, over the
past week or so I have had some
> problems with the vehicle and hard
starting. In combination with the
> hard starting I have also noticed a
unusual sequence of very fast
> clicking noises coming from what seems
right behind the radio. So I got
> the service manual out and looked at
some wiring schematics. If found a
> relay right behind the passenger side
kick panel, the book refers to it
> as two things 1)the engine control
relay & 2)The MFI relay.
Hmm, same symptoms that DSM car ECU's often
have when the power filter
capacitors start to go bad. The electrolytic
capacitors that Mitsubishi
uses seem to have a lifespan of 5-10 years, after
which they start to
degrade. You can take out the ECU and look at the
capacitors on the board
to see if any are leaking their juice out onto the
circuit board. If it is,
it starts to eat away at the power traces on
the board, which requires board
repair and replacement of the
capacitors.
I'm just guessing on this one, but it is at least a
possibility. Could also
be a bad battery that just isn't quite getting
enough voltage out. When you
crank the starter there still has to be
enough battery capacity to fire up
the ECU and if there isn't, then you might
get strange results on the MFI
relay.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
DSM Shootout bound in 3 days...
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:45:29
-0700
From: "aa2345" <
aa2345@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S: [OFF
TOPIC] Cleveland Gathering
Quick off topic question:
Can anyone
reffer me to the website about the Cleveland, OH gathering from
Aug 4-7
2000? I did an extensive search through the archives and came up
with
nothing?
Also, the dealer that did my brother's 60K service figured out
why my
brother's engine died 100 miles after the tuneup. It as a leak
in the air
system. No charge from the dealer.
HURRAY!!!
Thanks in advance.
Mike
94 Pearl Yellow
TT
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:30:32
-0500
From: "Oskar" <
swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Removal of Pre-Cats
As for the problem with debris and dust. This
is a serious issue and you
need to protect yourself adequately. Use
safety goggles that wrap all the
way around your eyes. These can be
found at most home improvement stores.
Also invest a few $ in a decent
quality dust mask that covers both mouth and
nose. Good single use ones
made by 3M can be had for a few $.
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Curt Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, July 17, 2000 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Removal of
Pre-Cats
> I would highly recommend getting the rest of the
material out of the other
> pre-cat. It will start to peel away and
get stuck either in your main cat
> (if you have one) or in one of your
mufflers.
>
> I had my pre-cats bored out pretty good, and after a
year, I took off my
HKS
> exhaust and a hand full of pre-cat material
fell out.
>
> Pre-cat gutting is an ugly job, but take the time and
get out all the
> material.
>
> later,
> Curt
>
CarParts at:
http://www.mn3s.org/car-parts.html>
>
>
>From: Nick Xiong <
nxiong@juno.com>
> >To:
captainrye@hotmail.com> >CC:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Subject: Re: Team3S: Removal of Pre-Cats
> >Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000
19:28:48 -0400
> >
> >do it when you feel like...
SUPERMAN!!! I just did it today. Fronts are
> >EASY to due
the fact that you can remove it & hack away w/ a 1" wood
> >boring
bit. Rears are a diff animal because it's not easily removed &
>
>you will breath & be blinded by metallic dust/hot metal flying down...
I
> >was able to fully gut the fronts I GAVE UP on the rears after I
got a
> >blinded one too many times & breathed enuff dust & got
a BIG enuff
> >headache... safety goggles DIDN'T HELP. did get a
1.5" hole thru the
> >rears though... perhaps on another day when I
feel like superman, again.
> >
> >but I can now hear the spool
up & down fr the turbos now ;-) and the car
> >is freaking
LOUD. I installed the ATR DP at the same time. combined
>
>w/the infamous Borla makes a killer sound.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
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>
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:33:19
-0500
From: "Oskar" <
swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
DSM Shootout -
Bummer Arty - I would have liked to see your car in
action. Good luck with
the remainder of the
project.
Oskar
attending the Shootout without the '95 R/T TT
-
----- Original Message -----
From: <
Aso8@aol.com>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>; <
stealth@starnet.net>
Cc: <
Aso8@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000
9:48 AM
Subject: Team3S: DSM Shootout -
> Unable to attend due
to Murphy's Law. My car is still not ready. I really
> wanted to run it at
this event. If all goes well another 2, (two), (II)
weeks
> should do
it! The main problem was the delay on getting the turbos and
> flanges.
Although, Allied Signal said they would sell us the Garrett
Turbos
>
they reneged and we had to pay double the price to buy through HKS.
Then
HKS
> never sent the needed flanges for these and we ended up
having to make our
> own custom flanges. Without the flanges, we couldn't
make the manifolds.
> Everything was delayed. It felt like a conspiracy to
keep us from having
the
> parts? On the bright side, under the hood
looks so mean it's awesome. I
may
> never have to race it - If I open
the hood everybody will just surrender.
> That's how sick this setup looks
:)
> Arty 91 VR-4 (close, real close)
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#204
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