team3s
Thursday, July 13
2000
Volume 01 : Number
199
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:56:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Kuo <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: VR4's in SCCA racing
Thanks for the info
Dave..
Hmm.. I wonder how competitive our cars will be in
these
condition???
=P
/G
- ---
Dskull@aol.com wrote:
> I am currently a
SCCA driver. Used to have a 93 VR4
> and had a lot of fun at
>
non-scca road events. I currently race a 96 Integra
> GSR in the New
England
> region. From what I can tell the only class the VR4
> is
sanctioned for is the
> GT division of the Speedvision World
Challange
> Series. Keep in mind the min.
> weight requirements and
I beleive you cannot run
> more boost than stock ( I
> may be wrong
on this). Go to SCCAPRO.COM to look at
> eligibility and rules.
>
> Dave Skultety - I swear I gave him racing room :)
>
> *** Info:
>
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:05:21
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: (OT) Racing Videos (was: why can Supra's get 410 rwhp ...)
> I
know I'll get a lot of flames when started this.
> Again.. I'm not saying
the 3S TT sux or not a great
> car or anything like that... just this car
is not
> meant to be a HARDCORE RACE car! Simply put.. if it
>
was.. we would see it on the tracks...
Nope, the 3/S isn't a hardcore
race car. Neither is a Supra, and an RX7
barely qualifies if you get
the roadrace or autocross versions. On the
other hand, I can cruise in
my car with the top down at 140 and feel
perfectly safe, I can run local
autocrosses and take home as many trophies
as I want, I can go to the
dragstrip and beat almost every street car there,
on the highway I can easily
defend the Mitsubishi name against the ricers,
etc.
What more do you
want? If I wanted a "race car", I would build one from
scratch, but
still consider using a 3/S TT motor.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 11:43:10
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: OT: 874hp/796ft-lbs Supra dyno video
I've also got videos of a
Supra doing the 1/4 in 10.75 @ 132
- ---
Is that a silver 87 turbo
that is in that video.
It should be in my driveway soon.
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 11:46:26
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: (OT) Racing Videos (was: why can Supra's get 410 rwhp ...)
Hmm..
why didn't the GTO come with a better goodies?
I mean what we have is good..
but not good enough
compare to other Jpn super cars.. OK.. engine
wise..
u going to tell me its one the best design?? OK..
tranny wise.. u
going to tell me we have a great
tranny? OK.. AWD wise.. hmm.. hey.. we
have the
advantage since not many others have AWD.. but how is
our AWD
compared to others.. like SKyline, Porche,
LAncer, Subaru, etc?? When
Mitsubishi designed the
GTO, im pretty sure they didnt have racing in
mind..
and having said that.. it's more difficult for us to
turn this nice
car into a race car..
- ---
The market for the VR4 in general, wouldnt
want the go-fast goodies. This is
part of the reason the 3000GT line
outsold the supra by boatloads..and years as
well.
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:06:14
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Wheels for sale
I just got my new Milli Miglia wheels, mounted
with Kuhmo tires, so my old
set of wheels and tires is available to anyone
who wants to get started in
open track racing, or just needs a set of winter
wheels.
The wheels are from a 97 non-turbo, I think. I've never seen
another Mitsu
with these wheels, so I really don't know what they came off.
They have six
fat chrome spokes. I bought them last year from Arrow Tire in
California.
Two of the wheels look OK, two of them need rechroming around the
rim
(chrome on spokes is OK, but the rim is gray and has no chrome). From
six
feet back, they look like what they are: race wheels that fit over a
94+
caliper. I've run them for five events on my 94 VR4 with no problems.
They
are not pretty, but they are brutally strong.
Price: $550 for
all four wheels and tires (includes shipping via UPS).
$500 if you come to
Cedar Rapids to get them (they fit inside a VR4 if you
have no
passengers).
The wheels have Yokohama 032R race tires mounted. One tire
is badly corded
and unusable. Although it has not gone flat, it's so worn
down you can
actually see the air in a few places. The other three have a
few
autocrosses left in them, or perhaps one full day of open tracking.
Maybe
an entire weekend if you rotated them around. If you could find
one used
race tire somewhere, you'd have a full set of wheels and race tires
dirt
cheap. You could also probably get by with two new tires for the fronts
and
use the best of the rest on the rears for a while.
Please respond
off list if you are interested to:
merritt@cedar-rapids.netRich/old
poop/94 VR4
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:44:38
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: Dangerous Dyno Session !!
On monday I've put the tuned 3k from a
client onto the dyno and theresult
in the first pull was 386PS and 511Nm at
only 0.86 bars of boost.
I then wanted to hold the car o nthe peak rpm
and increase boost to the max
of one bar or where the timing would be
retarded. As we increased rpm the
car started to shake at 5000 and we let
off the gas immediatly as we also
noticed the water temp being in the red
area ! The car overheated extremely
and it thewn died when the clutch has
been pressed. We made it runnign
again and with the AC colling on the temp
came down in about 15 second to
normal.
Driving the car back felt
like it would die every second and it shaked like
one cyl was not running. I
got home and reinstalled the old injectors with
the stock MAS but the
problem was still there. The compression test showed
that #4 (yes, of
course) is 30 psi less than the others ... at Mitsu we
switched the
injectors off with the DRB tool (OBDII) and found almost no
difference when
#4 was disabled. Using an endoscope, Mitsu found out that
the piston broke
at the edge. The first sign of this damage could be seen
at the trashed
spark plug.
Fortunately, all others look good so far and I only have to
replace #4
piston. The bad thing is that I can't do the work in my place as
I simply
do not have the tools nor a lift to remove the pistons and rods so
Mitsu
will do it without me as I have to work 120% in my normal job :-((
Cost of
the rebuild is $2500.... and no insurance is gonna cover this of
course.
The worst of all is that there is nothign that points to an
overheating
situation. We already had about 8 cars o nthe dyno and neither
mine or the
other 3s cars showed any higher temp level than normal. The
cooling fan
delivered enough air and this really wasn't the problem. So what
I suppose
is a failed thermostat that accidentially closed and reopened as
we pressed
the clutch. Strange but possible. I can't see any other reason as
there is
aboslutely no sign ... just a broken piston.
There was no
timing retarded and power climbed until the car started to
shake. The temp
rose within 6 seconds to the top and the damage happend
without any presign.
Boost was only 0.86 bars max (I will post the dyno
sheet soon), 720cc
injectors, rich mixture (no lean sign at all) ARC, etc.
Well, I have to
pay for the damage although I did a good work when I
installed everything
and it wroked really good. Sure I have to pay for the
damage although my
work didn't affected the stuff at all. Maybe the car
already had a bad
cooling behaviour and this finaly caused the collaps o
nthe dyno !! But what
the heck caused this overheating situation and what
finaly broke that dam
piston. There are no melting signs, just the damaged
piston and spark plug !
Any ideas ????
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch ... no good start
:-)
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 02:05:19
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Dangerous Dyno Session !!
Thats pretty much what happened to us
on the roadcourse.
Ran like a raped APE..then "Thats funny..its
overheating like a mo-fo" I say to
my co-driver..then it was all
over.
Clank clank clank...
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Roger Gerl [
mailto:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
Sent:
Thursday, July 13, 2000 1:45 AM
To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Dangerous Dyno Session !!
On monday I've put the tuned 3k
from a client onto the dyno and theresult
in the first pull was 386PS and
511Nm at only 0.86 bars of boost.
I then wanted to hold the car o nthe
peak rpm and increase boost to the max
of one bar or where the timing would
be retarded. As we increased rpm the
car started to shake at 5000 and we let
off the gas immediatly as we also
noticed the water temp being in the red
area ! The car overheated extremely
and it thewn died when the clutch has
been pressed. We made it runnign
again and with the AC colling on the temp
came down in about 15 second to
normal.
Driving the car back felt
like it would die every second and it shaked like
one cyl was not running. I
got home and reinstalled the old injectors with
the stock MAS but the
problem was still there. The compression test showed
that #4 (yes, of
course) is 30 psi less than the others ... at Mitsu we
switched the
injectors off with the DRB tool (OBDII) and found almost no
difference when
#4 was disabled. Using an endoscope, Mitsu found out that
the piston broke
at the edge. The first sign of this damage could be seen
at the trashed
spark plug.
Fortunately, all others look good so far and I only have to
replace #4
piston. The bad thing is that I can't do the work in my place as
I simply
do not have the tools nor a lift to remove the pistons and rods so
Mitsu
will do it without me as I have to work 120% in my normal job :-((
Cost of
the rebuild is $2500.... and no insurance is gonna cover this of
course.
The worst of all is that there is nothign that points to an
overheating
situation. We already had about 8 cars o nthe dyno and neither
mine or the
other 3s cars showed any higher temp level than normal. The
cooling fan
delivered enough air and this really wasn't the problem. So what
I suppose
is a failed thermostat that accidentially closed and reopened as
we pressed
the clutch. Strange but possible. I can't see any other reason as
there is
aboslutely no sign ... just a broken piston.
There was no
timing retarded and power climbed until the car started to
shake. The temp
rose within 6 seconds to the top and the damage happend
without any presign.
Boost was only 0.86 bars max (I will post the dyno
sheet soon), 720cc
injectors, rich mixture (no lean sign at all) ARC, etc.
Well, I have to
pay for the damage although I did a good work when I
installed everything
and it wroked really good. Sure I have to pay for the
damage although my
work didn't affected the stuff at all. Maybe the car
already had a bad
cooling behaviour and this finaly caused the collaps o
nthe dyno !! But what
the heck caused this overheating situation and what
finaly broke that dam
piston. There are no melting signs, just the damaged
piston and spark plug !
Any ideas ????
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch ... no good start
:-)
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jul 00 06:23:23
MDT
From: Mark Creekmore <
mcreekmore@usa.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Air-conditioner problems
Hi all,
I'm having a problem with my
air-conditioner. While the car is at idle, with
the clutch pushed in, the air
works great. If I rev the engine over about 3k
(clutch in or car moving), the
compressor shuts off. The console display still
shows that the air is on.
Once the engine is at idle again I can shut off the
system and turn it back
on and the compressor turns back on. This scenario
works every
time.
Any ideas?
Mark Creekmore
92' Stealth R/T T/T - with
acceleration air-conditioner shut off mod.
p.s. I hope to see a lot of
you at the DSM shootout next weekend.
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:16:36
CDT
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <
stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Air-conditioner problems
Mark, it maybe as simple as a
loose belt. Mitsu put a little black box
under the glove box that
compares the speed of the engine to the speed of
the compressor. If
they don't match, the compressor clutch releases. The
compressor is
harder to spin the faster it goes...so, it would make sense
that it is not
slipping at idle and it is at 3K+
Check it out and let us
know.
Mark
'91RT/TT
>From: Mark Creekmore <
mcreekmore@usa.net>
>
>Hi
all,
>
>I'm having a problem with my air-conditioner. While the car
is at idle,
>with
>the clutch pushed in, the air works great. If I
rev the engine over about
>3k
>(clutch in or car moving), the
compressor shuts off. The console display
>still
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:54:12
EDT
From:
OrangeFell@aol.comSubject: Team3S:
Engine Roll Stop Replacement
Since the car is off the road, and just over
100,000, I'm figuring that replacing all the mounting hardware (trans mount,
engine mount, and the roll stoppers) wouldn't be too bad of an idea. The
tranny's original, and I'm gonna baby the darn thing in every way possible to
keep it that way.
Now I've been seriously scoping out the car over the
last couple of days, when I've had time, coming up with a plan of attack- the
transmission and engine mounts seem easy enough. But that darn rear roll
stopper! Comparing service manual to car, I'm not sure what they're
smoking to get that darn thing out! Is there any easier way to access that
mount to get it out?
Kenneth
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:17:09
-0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Engine Roll Stop Replacement
You can try to loosen or remove the two side
mounts and tilt the engine
forward as need be using a hoist preferrably or
perhaps clever use of a
floor jack. In any case I doubt it will be on
anyone's Top 10 List of Fun
Things To Do.
Barry
>
-----Original Message-----
<sniped>
> Now I've been
seriously scoping out the car over the last couple
> of days, when I've
had time, coming up with a plan of attack- the
> transmission and engine
mounts seem easy enough. But that darn
> rear roll stopper!
Comparing service manual to car, I'm not sure
> what they're smoking to
get that darn thing out! Is there any
> easier way to access that
mount to get it out?
>
> Kenneth
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:27:55
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Dangerous Dyno Session !!
Geez, it almost sounds like the
injector in that cylinder wasn't doing
exactly what it was supposed to
do. Even with a closed thermostat, and
clogged cooling system, it would
take more than 6-10 seconds for the engine
temp to rise that quickly, even
under hard acceleration. I would actually
be looking towards something
else... I also have a question - when this
sort of thing has happened
before (broken one piston) I have this terrible
feeling that it is has been
the #4 cylinder on most occasions - Can anyone
relate to this??? Even
if there wasn't a sign of running lean - if all the
other cylinders were
running very rich, a single cylinder ran lean may or
may no be noticeable to
an EGT gauge or a A/F Ratio Gauge because it kinda
averages all 6
cylinders.
Anyone else have any ideas???
- -Cody
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSent:
Thursday, July 13, 2000 4:05 AM
To:
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Dangerous Dyno Session !!
Thats pretty much what happened
to us on the roadcourse.
Ran like a raped APE..then "Thats funny..its
overheating like a mo-fo" I say
to
my co-driver..then it was all
over.
Clank clank clank...
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Roger Gerl [
mailto:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
Sent:
Thursday, July 13, 2000 1:45 AM
To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Dangerous Dyno Session !!
On monday I've put the tuned 3k
from a client onto the dyno and theresult
in the first pull was 386PS and
511Nm at only 0.86 bars of boost.
I then wanted to hold the car o nthe
peak rpm and increase boost to the max
of one bar or where the timing would
be retarded. As we increased rpm the
car started to shake at 5000 and we let
off the gas immediatly as we also
noticed the water temp being in the red
area ! The car overheated extremely
and it thewn died when the clutch has
been pressed. We made it runnign
again and with the AC colling on the temp
came down in about 15 second to
normal.
Driving the car back felt like
it would die every second and it shaked like
one cyl was not running. I got
home and reinstalled the old injectors with
the stock MAS but the problem was
still there. The compression test showed
that #4 (yes, of course) is 30 psi
less than the others ... at Mitsu we
switched the injectors off with the DRB
tool (OBDII) and found almost no
difference when #4 was disabled. Using an
endoscope, Mitsu found out that
the piston broke at the edge. The first sign
of this damage could be seen
at the trashed spark plug.
Fortunately,
all others look good so far and I only have to replace #4
piston. The bad
thing is that I can't do the work in my place as I simply
do not have the
tools nor a lift to remove the pistons and rods so Mitsu
will do it without
me as I have to work 120% in my normal job :-(( Cost of
the rebuild is
$2500.... and no insurance is gonna cover this of course.
The worst of
all is that there is nothign that points to an overheating
situation. We
already had about 8 cars o nthe dyno and neither mine or the
other 3s cars
showed any higher temp level than normal. The cooling fan
delivered enough
air and this really wasn't the problem. So what I suppose
is a failed
thermostat that accidentially closed and reopened as we pressed
the clutch.
Strange but possible. I can't see any other reason as there is
aboslutely no
sign ... just a broken piston.
There was no timing retarded and power
climbed until the car started to
shake. The temp rose within 6 seconds to the
top and the damage happend
without any presign. Boost was only 0.86 bars max
(I will post the dyno
sheet soon), 720cc injectors, rich mixture (no lean
sign at all) ARC, etc.
Well, I have to pay for the damage although I did
a good work when I
installed everything and it wroked really good. Sure I
have to pay for the
damage although my work didn't affected the stuff at all.
Maybe the car
already had a bad cooling behaviour and this finaly caused the
collaps o
nthe dyno !! But what the heck caused this overheating situation
and what
finaly broke that dam piston. There are no melting signs, just the
damaged
piston and spark plug ! Any ideas ????
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch ... no good start
:-)
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:42:47
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Dangerous Dyno Session !!
>Geez, it almost sounds like the
injector in that cylinder wasn't doing
>exactly what it was supposed to
do.
But if there is no spray, then there would also be no ignition
because
there is simply nothing to ignite ! But if there is just the half
amount of
spray, I fully agree that this is an option and I send them out
for amoutn
and pattern testing.
> Even with a closed
thermostat, and
>clogged cooling system, it would take more than 6-10
seconds for the engine
>temp to rise that quickly, even under hard
acceleration.
No acceleration, full load on a dyno is like running in 4th
up the hill and
the rpm rises slowly ! I saw that it doesn't take longer
:-((
>sort of thing has happened before (broken one piston) I have
this terrible
>feeling that it is has been the #4 cylinder on most
occasions - Can anyone
>relate to this???
Yes, the #4 has the worst
cooling of all and the turbo sits there too.
Mitsu knows this too and
looking at the damage my own car once had the #4
was the most damaged
one.
> Even if there wasn't a sign of running lean - if
all the
>other cylinders were running very rich, a single cylinder ran
lean may or
>may no be noticeable to an EGT gauge or a A/F Ratio Gauge
because it kinda
>averages all 6 cylinders.
There would be an
average of 3 cylinders as we have two O2 sensors. But I
probably think I
hooked up the O2 sensor in the front :-/ If one is
spraying 10% less and IDC
is at 80% then the result would be a total of
76.7%.Hmm, the 10% less could
be dangerous for the one cyl and could cause
a lean situation, but the whole
voltage would also drop. Let's say that we
measured 0.92V at WOT (good) the
10% drop of one inj. would cause a drop to
around 0.88V what is too lean at
high rpm for our engines. But yes, I think
it is
possible.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:00:14
-0700
From: "Dr. John A. Tabler" <
jtabler@summitmicro.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Dangerous Dyno Session !!
Roger,
It is
possible that you may have cause and effect confused. Consider
the
possibility that the overheating was due to the failed piston. From
your
account of the failure, the shaking occurred before the rise in
temperature was
observed. The piston may have simply had a
defect.
JAT
Roger Gerl wrote:
> ...
> But what
the heck caused this overheating situation and what
> finaly broke that
dam piston. There are no melting signs, just the damaged
> piston and
spark plug ! Any ideas ????
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch ... no good start
:-)
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:02:54
-0700
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Dangerous Dyno Session !!
> Fortunately, all others look
good so far and I only have to replace #4
> piston. The bad thing is that
I can't do the work in my place as I simply
> do not have the tools nor a
lift to remove the pistons and rods so Mitsu
> will do it without me as I
have to work 120% in my normal job :-(( Cost of
> the rebuild is $2500....
and no insurance is gonna cover this of course.
Geez, Mitsu is going to
charge $2500! Is that for 1 piston replacement, or are
other things
being done, bearings, rings, 6 pistons?
> Well, I have to pay for
the damage although I did a good work when I
> installed everything and it
wroked really good. Sure I have to pay for the
> damage although my work
didn't affected the stuff at all. Maybe the car
> already had a bad
cooling behaviour and this finaly caused the collaps o
> nthe dyno !! But
what the heck caused this overheating situation and what
> finaly broke
that dam piston. There are no melting signs, just the damaged
> piston and
spark plug ! Any ideas ????
Maybe the piston broke first (because it was
old or weak or a bad casting) and
that caused the overheating. I don't
think you should be responsible for the
full repair bill since you did
nothing wrong. The customer is the one that
desires to extract more
power from his engine, and thus he assumes liability (as
we all do when we
modify) when something breaks. IMHO, you would be very
generous to pay
half the bill.
Thanks for the update,
Ken
- --
Forget world
peace -- visualize using your turn signal!
Ken Middaugh (858)
455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:19:53
EDT
From:
OrangeFell@aol.comSubject: RE: Team3S:
Dangerous Dyno Session !!
Not meaning to step on any toes,
but-
What in the way of modification was done to the car before the dyno
session?
Kenneth
(sorry Cody!!! ;)
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:26:25
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Dangerous Dyno Session !!
I must have missed this the first time
around, but I definitely agree with
Ken. You should not be responsible
for any part of the repair bill. Had
his car been run hard
before??? As long as our procedures were standard,
and his engine bit
the dust, most likely due to a possible worn piston to
start, then you are
not at fault. How do we know that the Piston wasn't
already cracked or
fatigued, and that a hard dyno run just brought out the
defect....
-
-Cody
________________________________________________
Maybe the
piston broke first (because it was old or weak or a bad casting)
and
that
caused the overheating. I don't think you should be responsible
for
the
full repair bill since you did nothing wrong. The customer
is the one that
desires to extract more power from his engine, and thus he
assumes liability
(as
we all do when we modify) when something
breaks. IMHO, you would be very
generous to pay half the
bill.
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:33:57
-0500
From: "Trevor L. James" <
trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Dangerous Dyno Session !!
Same thing that happened to mine a
couple months ago. Racing a Z-28 down the
freeway and at the top of third the
thing just lost power and would barely run.
Problem on mine was 2 Lucas brand
RC Injectors that quit working. I borescoped
it and found two pistons (4
& 6) that had the very edges taken off and the same
two spark plugs gaps
had been crushed. Compression on #4 was 109psi while the
rest were around
147psi. I'm leaving for Saudi Arabia today to keep an eye on
Saddam but when
I get back Sep 1st I'm hoping I can just get those pistons
swapped and be
back on the road.
Trevor
96 R/T TT
92 GMC Typhoon
Roger Gerl
wrote:
> On monday I've put the tuned 3k from a client onto the dyno
and theresult
> in the first pull was 386PS and 511Nm at only 0.86 bars of
boost.
>
> I then wanted to hold the car o nthe peak rpm and
increase boost to the max
> of one bar or where the timing would be
retarded. As we increased rpm the
> car started to shake at 5000 and we
let off the gas immediatly as we also
> noticed the water temp being in
the red area ! The car overheated extremely
> and it thewn died when the
clutch has been pressed. We made it runnign
> again and with the AC
colling on the temp came down in about 15 second to
>
normal.
>
> Driving the car back felt like it would die every second
and it shaked like
> one cyl was not running. I got home and reinstalled
the old injectors with
> the stock MAS but the problem was still there.
The compression test showed
> that #4 (yes, of course) is 30 psi less than
the others ... at Mitsu we
> switched the injectors off with the DRB tool
(OBDII) and found almost no
> difference when #4 was disabled. Using an
endoscope, Mitsu found out that
> the piston broke at the edge. The first
sign of this damage could be seen
> at the trashed spark
plug.
>
> Fortunately, all others look good so far and I only have
to replace #4
> piston. The bad thing is that I can't do the work in my
place as I simply
> do not have the tools nor a lift to remove the pistons
and rods so Mitsu
> will do it without me as I have to work 120% in my
normal job :-(( Cost of
> the rebuild is $2500.... and no insurance is
gonna cover this of course.
>
> The worst of all is that there is
nothign that points to an overheating
> situation. We already had about 8
cars o nthe dyno and neither mine or the
> other 3s cars showed any higher
temp level than normal. The cooling fan
> delivered enough air and this
really wasn't the problem. So what I suppose
> is a failed thermostat that
accidentially closed and reopened as we pressed
> the clutch. Strange but
possible. I can't see any other reason as there is
> aboslutely no sign
... just a broken piston.
>
> There was no timing retarded and power
climbed until the car started to
> shake. The temp rose within 6 seconds
to the top and the damage happend
> without any presign. Boost was only
0.86 bars max (I will post the dyno
> sheet soon), 720cc injectors, rich
mixture (no lean sign at all) ARC, etc.
>
> Well, I have to pay for
the damage although I did a good work when I
> installed everything and it
wroked really good. Sure I have to pay for the
> damage although my work
didn't affected the stuff at all. Maybe the car
> already had a bad
cooling behaviour and this finaly caused the collaps o
> nthe dyno !! But
what the heck caused this overheating situation and what
> finaly broke
that dam piston. There are no melting signs, just the damaged
> piston and
spark plug ! Any ideas ????
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch ... no good start
:-)
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:45:37
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Dangerous Dyno Session !!
Seems as though the failure mode is a broken
ring land ---- is the problem
improved with the installation of forged
pistons. Can you buy pistons with more
material between the top of the piston
and the first compression ring without
going to a complete custom
setup.
Jim
Berry
===========================================================
>
Same thing that happened to mine a couple months ago. Racing a Z-28 down
the
> freeway and at the top of third the thing just lost power and would
barely run.
> Problem on mine was 2 Lucas brand RC Injectors that quit
working. I borescoped
> it and found two pistons (4 & 6) that had the
very edges taken off and the same
> two spark plugs gaps had been crushed.
Compression on #4 was 109psi while the
> rest were around 147psi. I'm
leaving for Saudi Arabia today to keep an eye on
> Saddam but when I get
back Sep 1st I'm hoping I can just get those pistons
> swapped and be back
on the road.
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:48:59
-0500
From: "Trevor L. James" <
trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Dangerous Dyno Session !!
Oh yeah, let me explain how I narrowed
it down to two bad injectors. I could crank
the ARC to full rich and the
front O2 would hit 1.01V where the back O2 could only
muster .52V. That's
with two of the three spark plug gaps crushed and with the
computer's trim on
the back bank of injectors maxed out (+16.4%) trying to richen
it up in
addition to the ARC...
Trev
"Trevor L. James" wrote:
>
Same thing that happened to mine a couple months ago. Racing a Z-28 down
the
> freeway and at the top of third the thing just lost power and would
barely run.
> Problem on mine was 2 Lucas brand RC Injectors that quit
working. I borescoped
> it and found two pistons (4 & 6) that had the
very edges taken off and the same
> two spark plugs gaps had been crushed.
Compression on #4 was 109psi while the
> rest were around 147psi. I'm
leaving for Saudi Arabia today to keep an eye on
> Saddam but when I get
back Sep 1st I'm hoping I can just get those pistons
> swapped and be back
on the road.
>
> Trevor
> 96 R/T TT
> 92 GMC
Typhoon
>
> Roger Gerl wrote:
>
> > On monday I've
put the tuned 3k from a client onto the dyno and theresult
> > in the
first pull was 386PS and 511Nm at only 0.86 bars of boost.
> >
>
> I then wanted to hold the car o nthe peak rpm and increase boost to the
max
> > of one bar or where the timing would be retarded. As we
increased rpm the
> > car started to shake at 5000 and we let off the
gas immediatly as we also
> > noticed the water temp being in the red
area ! The car overheated extremely
> > and it thewn died when the
clutch has been pressed. We made it runnign
> > again and with the AC
colling on the temp came down in about 15 second to
> > normal.
>
>
> > Driving the car back felt like it would die every second and
it shaked like
> > one cyl was not running. I got home and reinstalled
the old injectors with
> > the stock MAS but the problem was still
there. The compression test showed
> > that #4 (yes, of course) is 30
psi less than the others ... at Mitsu we
> > switched the injectors off
with the DRB tool (OBDII) and found almost no
> > difference when #4
was disabled. Using an endoscope, Mitsu found out that
> > the piston
broke at the edge. The first sign of this damage could be seen
> > at
the trashed spark plug.
> >
> > Fortunately, all others look
good so far and I only have to replace #4
> > piston. The bad thing is
that I can't do the work in my place as I simply
> > do not have the
tools nor a lift to remove the pistons and rods so Mitsu
> > will do it
without me as I have to work 120% in my normal job :-(( Cost of
> > the
rebuild is $2500.... and no insurance is gonna cover this of course.
>
>
> > The worst of all is that there is nothign that points to an
overheating
> > situation. We already had about 8 cars o nthe dyno and
neither mine or the
> > other 3s cars showed any higher temp level than
normal. The cooling fan
> > delivered enough air and this really wasn't
the problem. So what I suppose
> > is a failed thermostat that
accidentially closed and reopened as we pressed
> > the clutch. Strange
but possible. I can't see any other reason as there is
> > aboslutely
no sign ... just a broken piston.
> >
> > There was no timing
retarded and power climbed until the car started to
> > shake. The temp
rose within 6 seconds to the top and the damage happend
> > without any
presign. Boost was only 0.86 bars max (I will post the dyno
> > sheet
soon), 720cc injectors, rich mixture (no lean sign at all) ARC, etc.
>
>
> > Well, I have to pay for the damage although I did a good work
when I
> > installed everything and it wroked really good. Sure I have
to pay for the
> > damage although my work didn't affected the stuff at
all. Maybe the car
> > already had a bad cooling behaviour and this
finaly caused the collaps o
> > nthe dyno !! But what the heck caused
this overheating situation and what
> > finaly broke that dam piston.
There are no melting signs, just the damaged
> > piston and spark plug
! Any ideas ????
> >
> > Roger
> > 93'3000GT
TT
> >
www.rtec.ch ... no good
start :-)
> >
> > *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:39:27
-0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 3000GT/Stealth instruction videos?
Does anyone have or know of a
source for instructional videos about driving
the 3000GT/Stealth
cars?
This could be anything from in-car videos from Autocrossing or road
racing
to commercially-available videos showing how the AWD package works and
how
to drive with it, ABS, proper braking since our cars eat them up
sometimes,
heel-and-toe, etc. Some of these are available by renting,
buying, watching
videos from Audi, BMW, Ferrari, etc. but these are all just
a little bit
different.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com <
mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com>
'95 Black VR-4
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi<
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:57:42
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: 3000GT/Stealth instruction videos?
I have a book called "All
Wheel Drive High-Performance Handbook"
How to:
Make your AWD car
handle
Drive fast on the street
Road Racing, Autocrossing,
Rallying
By Jay Lamm
Doesnt cover the 3S specifically, but
if you have experience with Autox and can
understand the physics of
racing..it has a LOT of 'in between the lines'
knowledge you can
digest.
ISBN: 0-87938-419-0
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Schilberg, Darren [
mailto:DSchilberg@freemarkets.com]
Sent:
Thursday, July 13, 2000 10:39 AM
To: 3000GT Post List (E-mail)
Subject:
Team3S: 3000GT/Stealth instruction videos?
Does anyone have or know
of a source for instructional videos about driving
the 3000GT/Stealth
cars?
This could be anything from in-car videos from Autocrossing or road
racing
to commercially-available videos showing how the AWD package works and
how
to drive with it, ABS, proper braking since our cars eat them up
sometimes,
heel-and-toe, etc. Some of these are available by renting,
buying, watching
videos from Audi, BMW, Ferrari, etc. but these are all just
a little bit
different.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com <
mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com>
'95 Black VR-4
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi<
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#199
*********************