team3s
Tuesday, July 4
2000
Volume 01 : Number
185
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 Jul 2000 15:57:39 -0400
From:
dgkessler@netexp.com (Kessler,
Don)
Subject: Team3S: Oil Pressure question
I have a 1993 R/T TT
running Mobil 1 10W30 oil with a Mobil 1 filter.
When the car has warmed up
(normal operating temperature) and the
tachometer is at idle, 700 rpm., the
oil pressure light comes on. The
oil pressure gauge shows 2 bars from
the bottom, so I think I have
pressure? When I tap the accelerator, the
light goes off! What could
this be? A bad sender for oil pressure light
or worse a failing oil
pump.
When driving the oil pressure is
fine!!
Don
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:52:13
-0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tire Help!!!
I love the playful, one-upmanship in here
sometimes. It doesn't scare me
off as I have been driving an Acura
Legend Coupe, Honda Accord Sedan, my
wife's 1.8 Turbo Beetle, and my dad's
Jaguar XJR Supercharged Sedan, etc. I
don't think I'll stop anytime
soon and the learning is completely
exhilarating. Besides, I am best
buddies with the owner of a Meineke shop
(exhaust, brakes, rotors, pads, CV
joints, suspension, etc.) so I plan to
make good use of his service.
I
haven't been dive-bombing, but when the 25 mph turn (40 km/h) with the
right
angle arrow appears I go in around 45 mph (72 km/h) and hold
through
them. I'm not hitting the apex at all but making it a big
sweeping turn.
Not taking advantage of the outside of the road is the next
mistake. Rich,
I have your notes written down and will paste them to
the dash until I learn
them cold (brake, downshift, turn in, clip the apex,
power on, drift to the
exit, full power on, upshift).
I promise to
practice them through as many turns as possible even though
this will most
likely mean: brake, downshift, turn in (miss any oncoming
cars), power on,
upshift. This misses the fun of clipping the apex,
drifting, and
hitting full power but alas I do need to watch out as I'm
learning the limits
of the car. They are fine in a turn when you have
control but I don't
want to know what it is like to try stopping a 4,000
pound car before sliding
across the other lane.
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Merritt [
mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent:
Monday, July 03, 2000 2:23 PM
To:
lehir@GenesisCom.ch; 'Schilberg, Darren';
'Team3S'
Cc:
jeff.mohler@netapp.com;
jstump@erols.com; 'Matt Wise'
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Tire Help!!!
>>>Our cars are so well balanced, such
activities don't affect us much.
>Laws of physics CANNOT be broken
!!
Still, our cars have a superior suspension and balance. We can do
things
that would put a 911 into the weeds.
>
>
>Could
have been some gravel on the road as well.
Nah...The more I think about it,
it seems that Darren has been dive-bombing
corners and early apexing. It's
about the only thing that makes sense.
>>Like....bring spare brake
pads, spare rotors (in case they crack....just
>joking...), brake
fluid,
>a compressor, "water wetter", distillated water, good tools,
grease, a
>multimeter, aluminium tape,
>zip-locks, multimeter, oil,
RainX, a tow rope, etc etc etc.....
>
Henri, don't scare him off. We'll
get him into some new pads and fluid, and
just leave it there for the moment.
We want him to come back.
Rich
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 15:24:30
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tire Help!!!
At 03:52 PM 7/3/00 -0400, Schilberg, Darren
wrote:
>I love the playful, one-upmanship in here sometimes.
Nah,
not one-upmanship. Just trying to help you enjoy your car and stay in
one
piece. There are not many of us who run open tracks. Most of the folks
here
are drag racers.
>exhilarating. Besides, I am best buddies with
the owner of a Meineke shop
>(exhaust, brakes, rotors, pads, CV joints,
suspension, etc.) so I plan to
>make good use of his service.
I get
all my brake and suspension work done at a local muffler shop.
>
>I
haven't been dive-bombing, but when the 25 mph turn (40 km/h) with
the
>right angle arrow appears I go in around 45 mph (72 km/h) and hold
through
>them.
Dive bombing just means that you are entering way
too fast, and trying to
scrub off the excess speed in the
turn.
Rich
>
>
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 16:22:24
-0400 (EDT)
From:
aa2345@wayne.eduSubject: Team3S: Redline
Thanks
Hello Team,
Thanks a lot to David Margrave, Andy Carberry,
Jim Matthews, Jeff Mohler,
and Barry King for the advice on the transmission,
x-fer case, and rear
differential oil advice.
The input I received
from them was very helpful. Here is where I ordered
from in case the
administrators want to add this to the FAQ page. I have
already ordered
the oil from Al Smith Automotive Products
http://asap.homeownersmall.com/ or
more specific
http://asap.homeownersmall.com/RedLine/rl-misc-lubes.html
. The number
was 410-882-9696 where I talked to Al. I got 3
quarts Redline MTL for the
transmission and 2 quarts Redline Shockproof Heavy
for the x-fer case and
rear differential. It was $8/quart and $8
shipping from Maryland to
Michigan for a grand total of $48.
Thanks
again to everyone that helped.
Mike.
94 Pearl Yellow
TT
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 16:24:31
-0400
From: Joe Gonsowski <
twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Oil Pressure question
If you haven't changed your oil and
filter in awhile, do so and see if
that fixes it. Just a suggestion,
but use a Mitsubishi OEM filter this
time, it may be less restrictive than
your Mobil 1 filter. Even if you
get the oil light to turn off by doing
this, I'd hook a mechanical gage at
the sending unit location and compare
against service manual values. If
you are low, it could be many things
(how many miles on your car).
Running a higher wieght oil may be a good
option for you. Hopefully you
are not dealing with a failing pump or
excessive bearing clearances. If
idle pressures are appropriate, the
idiot light sending unit may be bad
and can be easily replaced (resides near
oil pressure sending unit near
the timing belt cover near the drivers side
halfshaft).
I believe the idiot light will go off once a predetermined
low pressure is
reached (as opposed to having the intelligence to determine
appropriate
oil pressure vs engine speed) which is most likely to occur under
the
following:
- -low engine speeds, so idle is worst case (have you
checked your base idle
lately?, if too low, it could contribute to the
problem)
- -low viscosity oil (viscosity is decreased as temp increases and
can also
be reduced by running overly rich or a coolant leak)
- -failing
oil pump
- -restriction before the sending unit (overfiltered or dirty
filter)
- -bearing clearances opened up after the sending unit (bearing
clearances
can be viewed as leak paths)
So I bet you first saw the
light at idle after running the engine hard and
perhaps after the 10W30 and
filter were getting older.
Best of luck, keep that Detroit 3SI on the
road.
Joe Gonsowski
'92 R/T TT
"Kessler, Don"
wrote:
> I have a 1993 R/T TT running Mobil 1 10W30 oil with a Mobil 1
filter.
> When the car has warmed up (normal operating temperature) and
the
> tachometer is at idle, 700 rpm., the oil pressure light comes
on. The
> oil pressure gauge shows 2 bars from the bottom, so I
think I have
> pressure? When I tap the accelerator, the light goes
off! What could
> this be? A bad sender for oil pressure light or
worse a failing oil
> pump.
>
> When driving the oil pressure
is fine!!
>
> Don
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 16:26:03
EDT
From:
AABOMB1@aol.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Oil Pressure Gauge
In a message dated 7/3/2000 2:20:07 PM
Eastern Daylight Time,
owner-team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st
writes:
> Yeah I hear you, the way the factory gauge is calibrated you
do not have
> much of an idea what the oil pressure really is.
I installed an Autometer
> 0-100 psi mechanical gauge. I like
it alot. Depending on what viscosity
> oil I'm using I'll see
between 10-15 psi at idle, and around 80 psi at full
>
throttle.
>
> Oskar
> '95 R/T
TT
Yeah, I'm thinking about buying a mechanical gauge (the factory gauge
is also
mechanical, right?). So did you just buy this gauge from a
automotive parts
store? How much was it? Was it difficult to install and
conceal the hose?
Thanks
AA
-
-------------------
E-mail:
aabomb@thepentagon.com <or>
aabomb1@aol.comFax: (707) 982-8817 [In
United States]
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 22:32:40
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl (RTEC)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: S-AVC-R reading O2 sensors voltage !?
Guys, I was installing an
S-AVC-R (Apexi boost controller, new type) in a
customers car tdy and during
attaching the TPS wire I thought about why the
thing needs it. Well, of
course I haven't found anything in the manual and
during the setup I checked
the sensor levels. Here I noticed that the
voltage shows down to millivolts
what means a voltage between 0.00 and 1.02
volts can be displayed.
In
my point of view, I just can't see why the thing needs the TPS wire ...
maybe
because the japanese engineers like to know how lead the foot is ...
dunno.
But I really like the idea to connect the input to one of the O2
sensors. We
need to see a voltage of 0.88 to 0.96V at WOT and the display
with it's
recording capabilities as well the replay function would be
perfect for
analyzing the stuff without a datalogger.
I'm sure I'm not the first one
who thinks about this ! Therefore, I wonder
if anyone already did this and
what the experiences are. Hey, no light show
with 10 colored LED's, no hard
to read gauges, no guessing anymore (0.1 V
between the LEDS is just not
perfect !!)
Another note while at the S-AVC-R topic : Is it true the peak
values are
lost when power is gone on the thing ? If so, why did the
engineers only
think to the tip of the nose ? The A/B/etc seetings are also
stored so
what's the problem ?
Happy boosting
Roger (virusless
!!)
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:39:22
-0500
From: Matt Jannusch <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Redline Thanks
> I got 3 quarts Redline MTL for the
transmission and 2 quarts
> Redline Shockproof Heavy for the x-fer case
and rear
> differential. It was $8/quart and $8 shipping from
Maryland
> to Michigan for a grand total of $48.
Doesn't the tranny
spec call for 75/90 weight oil? That would be MT-90. Is
there a
benefit to running MTL? I've got BG Syncroshift in the car now, and
it
is okay but I'd like to try MT-90 if it works better.
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:00:43
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject:
Team3S: ADMIN:
Guys:
Please carefully read and review the TO: line
when you reply to list Email.
If someone sends a private message, send it
to the privately, if it is a message
sent to the list..try to only send it
back to the list OR in the case of one
thread involving multiple users in the
TO: line..trim it back to list only (if
possible).
Thanks and happy
4th!
Yours truly:
Jeff Mohler
List Admin..and the guy who just
butchered 250lbs outta his wife's 95 VR4.
*chuckle* (Interior
parts/trim soon to be 4-sale)
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:02:33
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Redline Thanks
The Supra calls for the same fluid, and the
straight MTL is vastly superior than
the specific weight called
for.
Older trannies may need the MT-90, but im not aware of many VR4
trannies that
get old enough to have noisy bearings or shafts like the Supras
do.
*grin*
- -----Original Message-----
From: Matt Jannusch [
mailto:MAJ@bigcharts.com]
Sent: Monday,
July 03, 2000 1:39 PM
To: Team 3S International
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Redline Thanks
> I got 3 quarts Redline MTL for the transmission
and 2 quarts
> Redline Shockproof Heavy for the x-fer case and
rear
> differential. It was $8/quart and $8 shipping from
Maryland
> to Michigan for a grand total of $48.
Doesn't the tranny
spec call for 75/90 weight oil? That would be MT-90. Is
there a
benefit to running MTL? I've got BG Syncroshift in the car now, and
it
is okay but I'd like to try MT-90 if it works better.
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
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***
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 17:53:12
-0400
From: Joe Gonsowski <
twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Engine Balancing Question
OK, my connecting rods should be here
by the end of this month and I've
placed several calls with shops to balance
the new rotating assembly.
None of the shops I spoke with had balanced a 3.0L
Mitsubishi. That
doesn't mean they can't, just that they need some
information from me.
Namely, what percentage of the reciprocating weight to
balance?
Most engines balance 100% of the rotating plus 50% the
reciprocating.
Some however, such as the Buick 90degree V6 only uses 33% of
the
reciprocating (underbalanced engine) since the bearings are happier
with
an underbalance condition (at least this is what one of the shops
told
me).
So, anybody know what our stock engines were balanced
to? And for those
of you that have changed pistons and/or rods, what
did the engine
builder balance to?
Is there anything that makes our
internally balanced 60 degree V6 engine
with six throw crank (as opposed to
three throw with splayed pins etc.)
vary from the 50% reciprocating rule of
thumb?
Thanks,
Joe Gonsowski
'92 R/T TT
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 19:17:38
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Tire Help!!!
- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merritt"
<
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
At 09:50 AM 7/3/00 -0400, Schilberg, Darren wrote:
> >Wow what great
advice. To be fair I also received some great tips
from
>
>Forrest on tire inflation and I think that was also a factor. I
had
these
> >around stock numbers but now know they should be around
40/36 (f/r)
or even
> >up to 50/46 in some cases.
>
>
No, not for highway use. I run 44/38 on the track with Yoko 032R race
>
tires, but back it down to 38/36 on the street. I run Michelin
Pilots
on
> the street.
>
> I need to test that this
week to learn the
> >optimum pressure for my driving style (some
highway but also some
nice
> >twisty roads). Also, by
adjusting the pressures one can
increase/decrease
> >the
understeer.
>
> Don't mess with that. You don't know what you are
doing, and that is
NOT
> the cause of your problems. In fact, if you
start messing with the car
to
> reduce oversteer, you will %$^%# it up
big time (see below).
-
---------------snipped---------------------------
Although Rich has given
you some *fabulous* advice... (print it out,
hang it on your wall,
stick a copy in your glove compartment and read it
before every time you
drive...!), I still must reiterate what I've said
before - and I stand by
it: You should 'tune' the inflation on every
set of tires for the kind
of driving you are doing. And Rich, (who
definitely *does* know what
he's doing), has done the same thing - I
just re-read an old post of his that
at speed he uses/used 40/34 on the
Michelins... But first let me
clarify some of the things that Rich,
Jeff, me, and others have said and put
them in perspective...
A racing tire has a progressive flex rate designed
into the side wall,
and it's stiffer, overall, compared to the softer and
more linear flex
in a "standard" high-performance tire.
Additionally, the *size*
(height) of that sidewall will affect how a
tire performs - a 17"
YokoXYZ is a totally diferent animal from a 16"
YokoXYZ. One of the
reasons my recommendations for inflation may differ
from some of the
other guys is that I'm driving on a 16" wheel, while they
are using 17"
wheels. There is a lot more flex in the larger sidewall
of a tire on a
16" wheel than that of a 17" wheel - to get less rollover in a
turn with
a 16" tire, you would inflate it more. You can "feel" when
you've got
it right with whatever wheel/tire combination you use, but you can
only
reach that point by experimenting with various inflations.
Having
seen a few of Jeff's films of him auto-X-ing and seeing how
smooth he is in
the corners (which is awesome, I must add...), I would
trust his
judgement that for THOSE tires and wheels and the way he
drives, that the
inflation he tries next time for that combination for
Auto-X will be ~24
lbs. But, guaranteed..., he will tune that number
according to what he
"feels" when he uses that inflation. If he were
driving my car with its
smaller wheels, bigger sidewalls and just
"run-of-the-mill" high performance
tires, I'd be willing to bet he'd
prefer close to twice the inflation, since
it's a vastly different
dynamic. As to Merritt's statement above that
he runs 44/38 on the
track with 17" Yoko 032R race tires, this also is pretty
much in
agreement with my suggestion for a softer-walled high-performance
tire
needing a slightly higher inflation to give you similar control
in
high-speed turns when you're out "playing". And his current 38/36
on
the street with 17" Michelin Pilots on an AWD VR-4 is right in line
with
my 40/34 on the street with the (almost identical) 16" Nitto 450s on
a
FWD Stealth NT. I'd venture a guess that on your 18" setup, 36/34
for
street and 42/38 for speed might do just fine - but only you can
decide
that based on how neutral the car feels at each different
setting.
Remember..., even the '92TT manual calls for increasing the
stock
inflation 7# in front and 4# in the rear for speeds over 100. On
a
("door- recommended") stock tire VR4 setting of 32/29, the
"speed"
setting would be 39/33, according to Mitsubishi. That's the
setting for
*driving*, not for *racing* and/or *playing*.
Naturally,
if you're racing, you want race tires. But for "tooling
around", you've
got to try different inflations for YOUR combination of
equipment and
style. For MY particular 16" wheel & Nitto Extreme
Performance 450s
setup on a FWD, this is what works best:
40F/34R for driving around
town.
43F/37R for normal driving.
46F/40R for high-speed driving or in the
rain.
"Your mileage WILL
vary..."
Best,
Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 21:53:15
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Tire pressures
> There is a lot more flex in the larger
sidewall of a tire on a
>16" wheel than that of a 17" wheel - to get less
rollover in a turn with
>a 16" tire, you would inflate it more. You
can "feel" when you've got
>it right with whatever wheel/tire combination
you use, but you can only
>reach that point by experimenting with various
inflations.
There are two ways, actually, to check:
The first is
to "chalk" the tire to see if you are rolling it under because
of low air
pressure. Just rub chalk all over the corner of the tire, from
about 1 in. on
the tread itself to about 1 in. up the sidewall. Go run
around a skid pad or
take an autocross run, and then inspect the tire to
see how much chalk got
rubbed off. If the tire rolled under, the chalk on
the sidewall will be
scrubbed off, and you need more air pressure. Chalk
all four, of
course.
The second is to use a pyrometer to check tire temps across the
profile --
inside, outside and center. If you can get the three temps within
a 5 deg
spread, you got the camber and pressures dead perfect.
I just
ordered a new set of Kuhmos, so I'll be back out there with chalk
and a
pyrometer to find my ideal pressures. Jeff says his Kuhmos run a lot
less
pressure than my Yokos did.
BTW, I learned this weekend that super high
tire pressures are not
necessarily the best for racing. Our TransAm Camaros
are running about
22-23 psi. We pump them to 28 psi to get on the scales at
tech, then drop
the pressures into the mid to low 20s afterward, depending on
whatever the
crew chief's sheet says. We also inflate with pure nitrogen.
Like Bob
Forrest says, it all depends on the tire and the application.
>
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 21:38:11
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tire pressures
>
> I just ordered a new set of
Kuhmos, so I'll be back out there with chalk
> and a pyrometer to find my
ideal pressures. Jeff says his Kuhmos run a lot
> less pressure than my
Yokos did.
- ---
On my stock suspension, with my offset and size of
wheel. (gotta have
those disclaimers)
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 00:55:37
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Tire pressures
- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merritt"
<
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
>it right with whatever wheel/tire combination you use, but you can
>
>only reach that point by experimenting with various
inflations.
>
>>>There are two ways, actually, to
check:
The first is to "chalk" the tire to see if you are rolling it
under
because of low air pressure. Just rub chalk all over the corner of
the
tire, from about 1 in. on the tread itself to about 1 in. up
the
sidewall. Go run around a skid pad or take an autocross run, and
then
inspect the tire to see how much chalk got rubbed off. If the
tire
rolled under, the chalk on the sidewall will be scrubbed off, and
you
need more air pressure. Chalk all four, of course.
The second is
to use a pyrometer to check tire temps across the
profile -- inside, outside
and center. If you can get the three temps
within a 5 deg spread, you got the
camber and pressures dead perfect.
I just ordered a new set of Kuhmos, so
I'll be back out there with chalk
and a pyrometer to find my ideal pressures.
Jeff says his Kuhmos run a
lot less pressure than my Yokos
did.<<<
- -------------------snip---------------------
To
expand on this for those doing it for the first time:
Make sure you use a
good quality "grease" chalk like the meter maids
use, since the common stuff
just blows off, and you'll freak when you
see it all gone. :-)
(Better yet, we used to use shoe polish, since
it's cheaper and you can find
it anywhere.) The idea is that when
you're doing aggressive turns, you
want to avoid any wear on those
little arrows on the sidewall that indicate
the end of the tread "cap".
That's a tell-tale that you're not keeping a
maximum of tread on the
road. For every 1/8" of chalk that's worn off,
you should add 2 lbs
tire pressure; e.g.: if you're running 1/2" up the
sidewall, pump it up
8 lbs more.
And for those who may not have had
the benefit of seeing Jeff's post
several months ago on the subject, below my
sig is his chart and
comments about what the pyrometer will tell
you...
Best,
Forrest
-
-----------------------------------------------
"Also for track use,
watching how much you creep up the sides means
little about how much total
tread surface you are getting [to the road];
on the track, every mm
counts. Watching tire temps helps there too.
Heres an example matrix of
temperatures, and what they tell you on the
track with the average
tire. Some react differently to pressures
and
alignment."
Inside Center Outside
-
----------------------------------
100
90
100 -- Tire pressure too
low.
105
100
90 -- Too much -neg
camber.
85
95
105 -- Too little -neg
camber.
90
100
90 -- Tire pressure too
high.
"These are just a beginners way of viewing those metrics...and you
have
to study alignment WITH how the tire is wearing to find the
perfect
match. If you have a car that just leans over in a turn WAY too
much,
there's little you can
do within OEM alignment ranges..but you can
work on it."
- ---originally submitted by Jeff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 06:37:48
-0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Wise <
diranged@south-park.cc>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tire pressures
All of this sounds really interesting. I was
told at a tire shop recently
that I should under inflate my tires if I want
more traction. That
somewhat makes sense because the tire will mold to the
road a bit better
w/o as much air in it (at least that makes sense in my
head... which is
usually pretty screwed up). So your telling us that we need
to inflate
them.. I have noticed that I have completeliy worn down the sides
and
corners of my new (8000miles) SP80000's and have been
severely
dissapointed with their traction. I'll definately try this chalk
idea and
see how bad it is. Thanks
On Tue, 4 Jul 2000, Bob Forrest
wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merritt" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
> >it right with whatever wheel/tire combination you use, but you
can
> > >only reach that point by experimenting with various
inflations.
> >
> >>>There are two ways, actually, to
check:
> The first is to "chalk" the tire to see if you are rolling it
under
> because of low air pressure. Just rub chalk all over the corner of
the
> tire, from about 1 in. on the tread itself to about 1 in. up
the
> sidewall. Go run around a skid pad or take an autocross run, and
then
> inspect the tire to see how much chalk got rubbed off. If the
tire
> rolled under, the chalk on the sidewall will be scrubbed off, and
you
> need more air pressure. Chalk all four, of course.
> The
second is to use a pyrometer to check tire temps across the
> profile --
inside, outside and center. If you can get the three temps
> within a 5
deg spread, you got the camber and pressures dead perfect.
> I just
ordered a new set of Kuhmos, so I'll be back out there with chalk
> and a
pyrometer to find my ideal pressures. Jeff says his Kuhmos run a
> lot
less pressure than my Yokos did.<<<
>
-------------------snip---------------------
>
> To expand on this
for those doing it for the first time:
>
> Make sure you use a good
quality "grease" chalk like the meter maids
> use, since the common stuff
just blows off, and you'll freak when you
> see it all gone.
:-) (Better yet, we used to use shoe polish, since
> it's cheaper
and you can find it anywhere.) The idea is that when
> you're doing
aggressive turns, you want to avoid any wear on those
> little arrows on
the sidewall that indicate the end of the tread "cap".
> That's a
tell-tale that you're not keeping a maximum of tread on the
> road.
For every 1/8" of chalk that's worn off, you should add 2 lbs
> tire
pressure; e.g.: if you're running 1/2" up the sidewall, pump it up
> 8 lbs
more.
>
> And for those who may not have had the benefit of seeing
Jeff's post
> several months ago on the subject, below my sig is his chart
and
> comments about what the pyrometer will tell you...
>
>
Best,
>
> Forrest
>
-----------------------------------------------
>
> "Also for track
use, watching how much you creep up the sides means
> little about how
much total tread surface you are getting [to the road];
> on the track,
every mm counts. Watching tire temps helps there too.
> Heres an
example matrix of temperatures, and what they tell you on the
> track with
the average tire. Some react differently to pressures and
>
alignment."
>
> Inside Center Outside
>
----------------------------------
>
100
90
100 -- Tire pressure too
low.
> 105
100
90 -- Too much -neg
camber.
> 85
95
105 -- Too little -neg
camber.
> 90
100
90 -- Tire pressure too
high.
>
> "These are just a beginners way of viewing those
metrics...and you have
> to study alignment WITH how the tire is wearing
to find the perfect
> match. If you have a car that just leans over
in a turn WAY too much,
> there's little you can
> do within OEM
alignment ranges..but you can work on it."
>
> ---originally
submitted by Jeff Mohler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 08:54:25
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tire pressures
At 06:37 AM 7/4/00 -0700, Matt Wise
wrote:
>All of this sounds really interesting. I was told at a tire
shop
recently
>that I should under inflate my tires if I want more
traction.
Maybe for drag racing. Certainly not on the
street.
That
>somewhat makes sense because the tire will
mold to the road a bit
better
>w/o as much air in it
No. With too-low pressure, the tire will roll under on hard corners.
You
need enough air pressure to (a) keep the sidewalls from folding and
(b)
to keep the tread flat to the road for maximum tire patch.
If
over-inflated, only the center of the tire patch will be working
(
<underline>\/</underline> ); if under inflated, only the edges
of the
tire patch will be working ( <underline>/\</underline> ) .
You want the
entire patch to work.
(at least that makes sense
in my head... which is
>usually pretty screwed up). So your telling us
that we need to inflate
>them..
Yep. At the least, go with
the recommended tire pressures.
I have noticed that I have
completeliy worn down the sides and
>corners of my new (8000miles)
SP80000's and have been severely
>dissapointed with their
traction.
Yep. Severely underinflated, sounds like.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 16:14:20
+0200
From: Matthews <
matthews@bnro.de>
Subject: Team3S:
Noise Update (was Re: tire rubbing on shock)
I am just returning to the
list after a few months of house hunting in southern
Germany and wanted to
provide an update on the noise I have been hearing from
the left-front wheel
of my '94 TT. The noise began about a year ago and was
only audible
when making hard right turns; now it is much louder and occurs even
when
driving straight. The noise vanishes when the wheel is unloaded, so it
is
basically impossible to diagnose when on a lift. I've had several
mechanics
look at the car and they all blamed tire/strut interference (stock
size tires
and rims!), which I thought I verified by chalking the inner
sidewall and seeing
residue on the strut (but see below!). The noise is
through 30-60 degrees of
the tire rotation, once per revolution, and if I
stop the car in the middle of
the noise and roll it back and forth by hand, I
hear a series of clicks that
seem to be coming from near the outside of the
wheel center. Once in a while
(very infrequently), the noise will
completely vanish, only to return full force
a few days later.
Insidious, to say the least.
So far, I have replaced both front struts
($$$) and tie-rod ends and had another
four-wheel alignment with basically no
negative camber. No improvement. The
interesting thing is that I
also installed a 3/8" wheel spacer which moved the
tire well away from the
strut, and again there was no improvement! Therefore,
I've ruled out
tire/strut interference and am concentrating on the hub and CV
joint
(wearable parts that turn once per revolution, right?).
On the way to me
are:
1) a set of four new rotors
2) a new front-left CV joint (anyone know
what T.J. means?)
3) a new front-left hub/bearing combo
I hope this is
a good strategy; I sure hate trying to fix things by just
replacing parts,
but the mechanics have been worthless so far. The only other
thing I
can imagine is the ABS sensor (clicking noise). I tried to remove
the
speed sensor but couldn't get it out (ended up mauling it up with pliers,
but it
still seems to work - VERY expensive to replace!!). I believe
the new hub/wheel
combo includes the wheel sensor cog/gear, and the mechanic
will have to get the
sensor pickup out, so this will at least be checked when
I have it in. Any
other suggestions?
I'll let you know what we
find!!
- -Jim
- --
Jim Matthews - Munich, Germany
mailto:matthews@bnro.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://www.bnro.de/~matthews***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://www.bnro.de/~matthews/stealth.html
(Europe)
http://members.stealth-3000gt.st/~matthews/stealth.html
(USA)
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable
Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline fluids (trans, xfer,
diff)
Porterfield brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot
XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16
sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft
torque
Matthews wrote:
>
> Lorne Silkes
wrote:
> >
> > How about a bad wheel bearing that is causing
the actual wheel/tire/hub to
> > move too much and make contact with
the strut. That seems like it would be
> > a very bad wheel
bearing and you'd notice a degradation of handling. Just a
> >
wild guess though.
> >
> > Lorne Silkes
>
> This
was my first thought as well, as the rubbing is rhythmic, once per
>
revolution (even after tire rotation!), and I *have* noticed a degradation
of
> handling. I checked for wheel play (jacked up that corner and
tried to rock the
> wheel) but found none. Wouldn't a wheel bearing
that bad be exposed by this
> test? How else can I test the wheel
bearings? I did ask the Mitsu dealer to
> check things out and their
conclusion was that all the mechanicals are fine and
> that my tires are
just too big (stock rims with stock size Michelins
> installed!).
They seem pretty incompetent, so I'm not convinced there isn't
> anything
wrong with the mechanicals...
>
> The handling problem I've been
experiencing is slightly excessive oversteer and
> non-linear
steering. What I mean by the latter is that I can be holding the
>
wheel at a fixed position in a turn and feel the car wallow, almost like
it's
> tightening and loosening the turn somehow. Hard to
explain. All suspension
> components are stock, car is nearing 80k
miles. Mitsu checked four-wheel
> steering and performed alignment
last fall. Visual inspection from below
> reveals nothing out of the
ordinary.
>
> Thanks...
-Jim
>
> --
> Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany (soon to be
Munich, Germany!)
>
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.vistec.net
(64 Kbps ISDN)
>
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews>
> *** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
>
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews/stealth.html
(Europe)
>
http://members.stealth-3000gt.st/~matthews/stealth.html
(U.S.A.)
> Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS
6-spd
> Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
>
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
> A'PEXi Turbo Timer
(30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
> Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline
ShockProof fluids
> Porterfield brake pads, custom braided brake
lines
> Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph
>
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
> 1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 16:22:12
+0200
From: "Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Noise Update (was Re: tire rubbing on shock)
Hi Jim,
Have you
checked the wheel bearings? (try to "wiggle" the wheel from side to
side and
rotate them by hand very slowly and try to feel if the wheels
rotate
smooth)
Your "symptoms" sound exactly like the ones I had when my bearing
was bad.
/Mikael Kenson
http://www.3000gt.nu- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Matthews" <
matthews@bnro.de>
To: "Team3S Technical
Forum" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, July 04, 2000 4:14 PM
Subject: Team3S: Noise Update (was Re: tire
rubbing on shock)
I am just returning to the list after a few months
of house hunting in
southern
Germany and wanted to provide an update on
the noise I have been hearing
from
the left-front wheel of my '94
TT. The noise began about a year ago and was
only audible when making
hard right turns; now it is much louder and occurs
even
when driving
straight. The noise vanishes when the wheel is unloaded, so
it
is
basically impossible to diagnose when on a lift. I've had
several mechanics
look at the car and they all blamed tire/strut interference
(stock size
tires
and rims!), which I thought I verified by chalking the
inner sidewall and
seeing
residue on the strut (but see below!). The
noise is through 30-60 degrees
of
the tire rotation, once per revolution,
and if I stop the car in the middle
of
the noise and roll it back and
forth by hand, I hear a series of clicks that
seem to be coming from near the
outside of the wheel center. Once in a
while
(very infrequently),
the noise will completely vanish, only to return full
force
a few days
later. Insidious, to say the least.
So far, I have replaced both
front struts ($$$) and tie-rod ends and had
another
four-wheel alignment
with basically no negative camber. No improvement.
The
interesting
thing is that I also installed a 3/8" wheel spacer which moved
the
tire
well away from the strut, and again there was no
improvement!
Therefore,
I've ruled out tire/strut interference and am
concentrating on the hub and
CV
joint (wearable parts that turn once per
revolution, right?).
On the way to me are:
1) a set of four new
rotors
2) a new front-left CV joint (anyone know what T.J. means?)
3) a
new front-left hub/bearing combo
I hope this is a good strategy; I sure
hate trying to fix things by just
replacing parts, but the mechanics have
been worthless so far. The only
other
thing I can imagine is the ABS
sensor (clicking noise). I tried to remove
the
speed sensor but
couldn't get it out (ended up mauling it up with pliers,
but it
still
seems to work - VERY expensive to replace!!). I believe the
new
hub/wheel
combo includes the wheel sensor cog/gear, and the mechanic
will have to get
the
sensor pickup out, so this will at least be checked
when I have it in. Any
other suggestions?
I'll let you know what
we find!!
- -Jim
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#185
*********************