team3s
Monday, July 3
2000
Volume 01 : Number
184
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 2 Jul 2000 21:17:08 -0500
From: "Oskar" <
swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Porterfield cryo rotors
Hello, I have a question for people that have
used Porterfield cryo rotors.
Do they have to be turned before being
installed?
Thanks,
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 22:51:05
-0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tire Help!!!
Thanks guys for the tips and I'll practice more
next time, but to defend my
honor I don't think I was perfectly accurate the
first time on descriptions.
I am still new so remembering where in the
position the gas pedal is on my
Accord (20% throttle, 60%, etc.) still takes
some getting used to.
When I said I "took my foot off the throttle" I
really think it was more
like I "wasn't accelerating through the turn anymore
but I backed off of the
acceleration and continued through the turn." I
know this is after the fact
but I have learned that lifting off at full
throttle in 2nd tends to throw
me through the windshield so I don't do that
anymore. I know I didn't back
off completely, but I probably did back
off more than 5% (like maybe 25%)
which is why it felt like the car snapped
back into shape since the wheels
were still "somewhat" driving through the
turn. Yes it will take some time
getting used to driving into a spin
and it's a good thing I have 4 months
until the snow comes
around.
Last year I photographed many local AutoX events and watched my
fellow
carpool driver race her car around. I finally got to drive my
friend's
Acura Integra Type R with some better suspension, wheels, and Kumho
tires.
It was quite an experience having to set up his car before a turn
to
minimize the steepness and to maximize traction whereas this car
is
completely different. It will be nice to give him a drive once I
learn a
few more tricks. The Fall season starts in about another month
so I have
some time.
But getting back to the question - the tires held
real well (almost too well
for my "still green" driving ability. They
have held me in turns where I
was probably not driving correctly and for that
I am very grateful. I would
have been sliding out a whole lot more with
cheaper quality tires, so the
P-Zero sets are really doing well.
-
--Flash!
'95 VR-4
But perhaps a better name after this thread might be
"Crash" or "Smash" :-)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
lehir@genesiscom.ch>>
I took my foot off the throttle
Bad bad BAD reaction !!!
A correct
reaction would have been to (pick your own)
a) Step on the Gas, and use
the power to go through the turn (race
technique)
b) Leave the gas EXACTLY
where it is (or lift it by no more than 5 %, and go
through the turn
(ahem...street race technique)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comI
agree.
Gets tiring BEING a good driver, and listening to all the 'road
warrior'
stories..by the grace of God alone do half the guys out there in
sports cars
not
kill themselves thinking theyre good..or worse.."They read
a performance
book".
And yes..you can learn a lot by learning to autox
well..the heavier the
car..the
better.
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 23:01:14
-0400
From: "Michael" <
mdorsey@mindspring.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Blue smoke
I had a friend tell me that he saw blue smoke from my
car when starting it
one morning. It was the first time cranking it
after the car had been off
all night. I've never noticed it before, and
have not been able to
duplicate it since. Due to my tint, I would never
be able to see it while
driving though unless I actually have someone else
looking for it. Should I
be worried?
Michael
98 VR4 - DSBC,
ATR DP and test pipe, gutted pre-cats, Borla Exhaust,
K&N
FIPK
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 23:05:39
-0500
From: "Oskar" <
swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Oil Pressure Gauge
> Hey everyone, I'm looking into buying an
aftermarket oil pressure gauge
since
> the factory gauge is not very
accurate to say the least.
>
> Any
recommenations?
>
Yeah I hear you, the way the factory gauge is
calibrated you do not have
much of an idea what the oil pressure really
is. I installed an Autometer
0-100 psi mechanical gauge. I like
it alot. Depending on what viscosity
oil I'm using I'll see between
10-15 psi at idle, and around 80 psi at full
throttle.
Oskar
'95
R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 23:13:19
-0500
From: Matt Jannusch <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Driving tips, etc.
> Gets tiring BEING a good driver, and listening to
all the 'road warrior'
> stories..by the grace of God alone do half the
guys out there in sports
cars not
> kill themselves thinking theyre
good..or worse.."They read a performance
book".
I'd recommend that
everyone on the list at least try autocrossing a few
times. Most local
clubs have a warmup day or newbies day where there are
experienced
instructors that will ride along in your car (or drive it if you
so desire)
who can give tons of good advice on how to get the most out of
your car's
handling. At least 95% of us (myself included) aren't getting
the most
out of the car's handling as it sits in even stock form, and
autocross is the
best (and safest) way to increase the performance of the
most important part
of the car - the driver!
I've been autocrossing for about 4 years now,
and the techniques that I
learned there have been very useful on the street
during inclement weather
or just trying to avoid hitting some bonehead who
didn't see me (like you
can't see a 3000GT... sheesh!). Road
racers who haven't autocrossed should
see good improvements on lap times
after having learned autocrossing.
Here's a little tip though - in almost
all situations where car control is
decreasing in an AWD car (and most of the
time in a FWD car), giving the car
more throttle is the correct answer.
These cars, including the FWD
variants, like to understeer hard if you let up
on the gas and on the street
it is almost going to guarantee that you hit
whatever you were trying to
avoid. It gets much worse if you get on the
brakes. Keep the speed
constant, or slightly increasing and try to
remain calm and steer the car to
where you want to go and unless your speed
is way beyond reasonable for the
corner you will make it.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 00:04:38
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tire Help!!!
>but I have learned that lifting off at full
throttle in 2nd tends to throw
>me through the windshield so I don't do
that anymore. I know I didn't back
>off completely, but I probably
did back off more than 5% (like maybe 25%)
>which is why it felt like the
car snapped back into shape since the wheels
>
I came into this
discussion a little late (just got back from the TransAm
race in Cleveland),
but let me add a comment or two. First, I have NEVER
slid my VR4 -- not on at
an autocross, Marshalltown go-kart track or at
Blackhawk Farms, Heartland
Park or Road America, on street tires or race
tires. Well, once, I guess --
during a flat-out corner in Marshalltown at
about 70 in 2nd, I got into a
full power drift, but nothing like Darren is
describing. This includes
lifting in turns, braking in turns, and all
manner of stuff the driving
instructors tell you not to do. Our cars are so
well balanced, such
activities don't affect us much.
Since our cars handle extremely well,
this leads me to one of three
conclusions:
1. Darren's tires suck.
More accurately, they don't stick for diddley. This
could be because of the
tires being terrible or maybe low tire pressure.
Pump them suckers up, at
least to the recommended pressures.
2. Positive toe-out in the rear.
Autocrossers crank in positive toe in the
rear to make the car oversteer on a
tight track but -- as I understand it
- -- positive toe in the rear is NOT
something you want on the street or in
high speed track stuff, because the
rear can come around on you in the
blink of an eye. Maybe Darren's car is out
of toe from a bad alignment, an
accident, the 4WS is sticking, or whatever.
3. If there is nothing wrong with the tires or the alignment,
then, Darren
me boy, you are not the great driver you think you are and you
need some
serious driver education. Somebody suggested running some
local
autocrosses, and I agree. Auto-X is good for low speed (1st and 2nd
gear)
stuff and developing quick reflexes on the steering, brake and
clutch
(although you won't shift much). For higher speed stuff, you need to
go to
a track driving school. Call up your local BMW or Porsche dealer, find
out
a contact for your local chapter, ask them when and where they are
holding
their next driving school event, and go to it before you kill
yourself. It
should cost about $200 for an entire weekend ($90-$400 is the
range) plus
T&E, but you will be 10 times the driver you are now when
it's all over.
Let us know when and where you are going, and we'll have
some tips for you
on car prep.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 08:47:38
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Blue smoke
>driving though unless I actually have someone
else looking for it. Should I
>be worried?
What's the boost
peak you're usually running ?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 08:49:41
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Porterfield cryo rotors
>Hello, I have a question for
people that have used Porterfield cryo rotors.
>Do they have to be turned
before being installed?
Nono, definitely not !! Install them and new pads
and then padding the pads
and seasoning the
rotors.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 03:26:12
-0400 (EDT)
From:
aa2345@wayne.eduSubject: Team3S: Redline
question
Hello Team,
I already sent messages to a few individuals
asking about Redline. Sorry
if this is a repeat. My main questions
are:
1) What gear oils to use and what viscosities? Redline or BG
Syncroshift?
2) Where do I get them from? Redlines website for
~$8/quart?
Based on my research on the internet (3SI site and Redline
site) I came to
the following conclusion:
Transmission: -Redline
MT-90
Transfer Case: -Redline MT-90 according to manufacturer
specs
-Redline Shockproof Heavy Gear Oil after
seeing
other 3S recommendations
Rear Differential: -Redline Shockproof Heavy Gear
Oil after
seeing
other 3S recommendations
What do you think I should use?
I
live in Michigan if you want to use the weather as a variable.
Thanks a million,
Mike.
94 Pearl Yellow TT
Detroit Metro
Area, Michigan
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 06:24:31
-0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Wise <
diranged@south-park.cc>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tire Help!!!
> 1. Darren's tires suck. More accurately,
they don't stick for diddley. This
> could be because of the tires being
terrible or maybe low tire pressure.
> Pump them suckers up, at least to
the recommended pressures.
I definately agree, his tires could suck but I
doubt that they suck by
nature. P-Zero's are supposed to be pretty damn good
tires, and better be
for the money. However, I will say that with my Dunlop
SP8000's, when I
first got them sliding the car in a turn was an imposibility
unless i went
into it just WAY to fast (ie, 90mph in a 25mph turn.. That just
wont
happen with the weight of our cars). Now, with the front tires worn
to
about 50% tread (and I wonder why i get such bad gas mileage.. thats
in
8000 miles that I have worn it down that way) and having just rotated
them
so the bad tires are on the rear, I do attribute that to the cause of
my
slide the other week... Although I let off of the gas, the car would
have
never done that with good tires..
To add to this discussion,
what ARE the best tires :) (yes this will end
up as a flame war, i am sure)..
Im going to be replacing the sp8000's soon
and I want tires that have MAJOR
traction... Im also thinking about
getting 18's.. Anyone know of any good
prices and or places to get them
from? Thanks..
***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 14:33:52
+0100
From: Gordon Tyrrell <
gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tire Help!!!
Bridgestone SO2's are the best tyres I've ever
used and I've tried a
hell of a lot. They now do an S02 PolePosition for
people that have a
lot of wet road use and they actually improve as they
wear. A definite
good investment.
I tried P-Zero's on an MR2 and had
them removed after a couple of days.
They were a disgrace, they were so bad.
I was stunned. Only put them on
as they tyre guy had no S02's for 3 weeks and
suggested they were as
good.
I've worked my way up through RE71's to
S01's and on to S02's.
And I don't even have shares in Bridgestone
:)
Matt Wise wrote:
>
>
> I definately agree, his
tires could suck but I doubt that they suck by
> nature. P-Zero's are
supposed to be pretty damn good tires, and better be
> for the money.
However, I will say that with my Dunlop SP8000's, when I
> first got them
sliding the car in a turn was an imposibility unless i went
> into it just
WAY to fast (ie, 90mph in a 25mph turn.. That just wont
> happen with the
weight of our cars). Now, with the front tires worn to
> about 50% tread
(and I wonder why i get such bad gas mileage.. thats in
> 8000 miles that
I have worn it down that way) and having just rotated them
> so the bad
tires are on the rear, I do attribute that to the cause of my
> slide the
other week... Although I let off of the gas, the car would have
> never
done that with good tires..
>
> To add to this discussion, what ARE
the best tires :) (yes this will end
> up as a flame war, i am sure).. Im
going to be replacing the sp8000's soon
> and I want tires that have MAJOR
traction... Im also thinking about
> getting 18's.. Anyone know of any
good prices and or places to get them
> from? Thanks..
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 06:41:40
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: A/F meter Installation?
Hi Erik,
Damn, still pinging
huh? An A/F meter is a handy tool for tuning a
car especially if a person has
a way to manipulate the A/F ratio
(like with an ARC2). Split Second
http://www.splitsec.com/ has a
nice
little unit. You can tap directly into one of the EGO sensor
wiring
harnesses (or both with a switch). I found it easier to tap into
the
wiring harness that connects to the ECU. There is power there too.
It
is a very easy job. I hid the meter in the glovebox so I don't have
to
see its bright little lights unless I want to.
Jeff Lucius, 3SI #476,
StealthMan92@yahoo.comRed 1992
Stealth TT - modified
-->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
To: "'Team3S
List'" <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>;
"'Starnet 3Si Mailing
List'" <
stealth@starnet.net>; "'Dragnet 3S
Mailing List'"
<
stealth@dragnet.com>
Sent: Friday,
June 30, 2000 2:46 PM
Subject: Team3S: A/F meter Installation?
Hi
All,
I know some of you have Air/Fuel mixture meters or gauges
installed
in your 3/Ss - what kind do you have and where did you install
it?
Depending on cost/hassle, I'm interested in installing such
a
gauge/meter in my 3000GT. I don't need an integrated unit with
a
boost controller/turbo timer or anything like that because I have a
NA
car. So assuming such a beast exists (I figure it's got to),
where does
one install the sensor? In the manifold somewhere?
In case
anyone is curious, the reason I'm thinking about an A/F
meter is that my car
is still lightly pinging (posted about serious
pinging a while back).
I've got the compression down now
(178-188psi, spec is 185psi), and the
intake manifold, plenum, intake
valves, cylinder walls, and piston tops are
all nice and shiny now.
Also, I checked the timing - it's within spec (basic
and actual). I
also grounded the ignition timing adjustment
terminal and drove the
car around the block (effectively holding the timing
to 5 degrees)
and I could still hear some pinging. Since the timing,
compression,
fuel type (Texaco Premium - 92 octane), and air filter, all
appear to
be ok AND I don't have a check engine light on, the only thing I
can
figure is that something is making the engine run lean (clogged
FI,
low fuel pressure, bad sensor that's not setting off the check
engine
light, etc). Before checking out things that would make the
engine
run lean, I'd like to see if in fact it is running lean.
Thanks!
-
--Erik
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:50:39
-0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tire Help!!!
Wow what great advice. To be fair I also
received some great tips from
Forrest on tire inflation and I think that was
also a factor. I had these
around stock numbers but now know they
should be around 40/36 (f/r) or even
up to 50/46 in some cases. I need
to test that this week to learn the
optimum pressure for my driving style
(some highway but also some nice
twisty roads). Also, by adjusting the
pressures one can increase/decrease
the understeer. I don't want to
start offsetting the wheels yet. The
recommended starting pressure
should be the tire's "maximum" pressure. This
will get me a whole lot
closer than I am now.
Rich, I choose options #1 and #3 from your
conclusions. And after having
the car for two and a half weeks where
the shop installed the new P-Zero
tires and aligned them I must admit that I
know the problem is in my
driving, but I am a pretty good driver it is just
that I have no experience
in an AWD car or one with such awesome power.
Usually accelerating through
a turn is near the shift point and you can't
floor it to get through a
slide. With this car I find myself backing
off around 4-5,000 sometimes
which tells me there is plenty of room left to
accelerate through.
Practice, practice, practice. I'll try my hand at
the local AutoX this Fall
and maybe try to find a school (if they are not all
full yet) for the
performance handling characteristics.
I will be at
the Blue Ridge Gathering in Asheville, NC (Friday only) on July
28,
http://www.linenoiz.net/gathering/frames.html<
http://www.linenoiz.net/gathering/frames.html>
, and the Midwest Gathering
in Cleveland, OH (Saturday and possibly Sunday)
on August 5-6,
http://hammer.prohosting.com/~mliberty/gatheringpage.htm<
http://hammer.prohosting.com/~mliberty/gatheringpage.htm>
. At the Midwest
Gathering I may be installing a boost controller and
an air filter or just
looking at how much that adds and go back to have it
done. I am interested
in learning all I can and I appreciate everyone's
efforts. Can't wait for a
wonderful summer.
- --Flash!
'95
VR-4 and only utilizing about 6.82% of this car's potential (numbers are
not
to scale)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Merritt [
mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Since
our cars handle extremely well, this leads me to one of
three
conclusions:
1. Darren's tires suck. More accurately, they don't
stick for diddley. This
could be because of the tires being terrible or maybe
low tire pressure.
Pump them suckers up, at least to the recommended
pressures.
2. Positive toe-out in the rear.
3. If there is
nothing wrong with the tires or the alignment, then, Darren
me boy, you are
not the great driver you think you are and you need some
serious driver
education.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Matt Wise [
mailto:diranged@south-park.cc]
I
definately agree, his tires could suck but I doubt that they suck by
nature.
P-Zero's are supposed to be pretty damn good tires, and better be
for the
money. However, I will say that with my Dunlop SP8000's, when I
first got
them sliding the car in a turn was an imposibility unless i went
into it just
WAY to fast (ie, 90mph in a 25mph turn.. That just wont
happen with the
weight of our cars). Now, with the front tires worn to
about 50% tread (and I
wonder why i get such bad gas mileage.. thats in
8000 miles that I have worn
it down that way) and having just rotated them
so the bad tires are on the
rear, I do attribute that to the cause of my
slide the other week... Although
I let off of the gas, the car would have
never done that with good tires..
To add to this discussion, what ARE the best tires :) (yes this will
end
up as a flame war, i am sure).. Im going to be replacing the sp8000's
soon
and I want tires that have MAJOR traction... Im also thinking
about
getting 18's.. Anyone know of any good prices and or places to get
them
from? Thanks..
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 07:24:38
-0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Wise <
diranged@south-park.cc>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tire Help!!!
How much are those SO2's?
On Mon, 3 Jul
2000, Gordon Tyrrell wrote:
> Bridgestone SO2's are the best tyres
I've ever used and I've tried a
> hell of a lot. They now do an S02
PolePosition for people that have a
> lot of wet road use and they
actually improve as they wear. A definite
> good investment.
>
> I tried P-Zero's on an MR2 and had them removed after a couple of
days.
> They were a disgrace, they were so bad. I was stunned. Only put
them on
> as they tyre guy had no S02's for 3 weeks and suggested they
were as
> good.
>
> I've worked my way up through RE71's to
S01's and on to S02's.
>
> And I don't even have shares in
Bridgestone :)
>
> Matt Wise wrote:
> >
> >
> > I definately agree, his tires could suck but I doubt that they
suck by
> > nature. P-Zero's are supposed to be pretty damn good tires,
and better be
> > for the money. However, I will say that with my
Dunlop SP8000's, when I
> > first got them sliding the car in a turn
was an imposibility unless i went
> > into it just WAY to fast (ie,
90mph in a 25mph turn.. That just wont
> > happen with the weight of
our cars). Now, with the front tires worn to
> > about 50% tread (and I
wonder why i get such bad gas mileage.. thats in
> > 8000 miles that I
have worn it down that way) and having just rotated them
> > so the bad
tires are on the rear, I do attribute that to the cause of my
> > slide
the other week... Although I let off of the gas, the car would have
> >
never done that with good tires..
> >
> > To add to this
discussion, what ARE the best tires :) (yes this will end
> > up as a
flame war, i am sure).. Im going to be replacing the sp8000's soon
> >
and I want tires that have MAJOR traction... Im also thinking about
> >
getting 18's.. Anyone know of any good prices and or places to get them
>
> from? Thanks..
> >
> > *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
> *** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 08:18:18
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Tire Help!!!
To add to this discussion, what ARE the best tires
:)
- ---
There is NO CORRECT ANSWER HERE.
You tell us what you
EXPECT out of the tires, and that will help.
SInce its being driven
on the street, you have to take into consideration
weather,
surfaces..etc..etc..etc..
Theres no magic tire out
there.
..and for the love of God ppl..trim the reply-to list to just
the list. *grin*
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 10:29:49
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tire Help!!!
At 09:50 AM 7/3/00 -0400, Schilberg, Darren
wrote:
>Wow what great advice. To be fair I also received some great
tips from
>Forrest on tire inflation and I think that was also a
factor. I had these
>around stock numbers but now know they should
be around 40/36 (f/r) or even
>up to 50/46 in some cases.
No, not
for highway use. I run 44/38 on the track with Yoko 032R race
tires, but back
it down to 38/36 on the street. I run Michelin Pilots on
the
street.
I need to test that this week to learn the
>optimum
pressure for my driving style (some highway but also some nice
>twisty
roads). Also, by adjusting the pressures one can
increase/decrease
>the understeer.
Don't mess with that. You don't
know what you are doing, and that is NOT
the cause of your problems. In fact,
if you start messing with the car to
reduce oversteer, you will %$^%# it up
big time (see below).
>I don't want to start offsetting the
wheels yet.
Good. It won't solve your problem either.
>
>Rich, I choose options #1 and #3 from your
conclusions. And after having
>the car for two and a half weeks
where the shop installed the new P-Zero
>tires and aligned them I must
admit that I know the problem is in my
>driving, but I am a pretty good
driver it is just that I have no experience
>in an AWD car or one with
such awesome power.
The AWD only helps at the limit. It helps PULL our
cars through a corner
with its FWD part. I don't think you are anywhere near
there yet, nor are
you using the AWD to advantage. When you autocross the
car, you should see
the AWD advantage immediately, because where the
high-horsepower RWD cars
are sliding and smoking, you'll be sticking.
When you take a driving school, it will open your eyes to true high
speed
driving techniques, and you will see immediately what you are doing
wrong.
For example, after re-reading your descriptions, I think you are
turning in
way too early, you are running out of road, and you are
frantically braking
or lifting off to try to keep the car on the road. A late
apex would
probably cure 90% of your handling problems. An instructor will
show you.
Usually accelerating through
>a turn is near
the shift point and you can't floor it to get through a
>slide. With
this car I find myself backing off around 4-5,000 sometimes
>which tells
me there is plenty of room left to accelerate through.
>Practice,
practice, practice.
I'm not entirely sure I understand what you are
saying. I have this vague
feeling that you are describing how one would take
a corner in a RWD car,
such as a Vette, 911 or 5.0 Mustang, with all their
vast power oversteer.
Our cars are completely different. In fact, when pushed
very hard, our cars
UNDERSTEER (push), not oversteer. If you are trying to
relate your car's
handling to an oversteering car, no wonder you are having
trouble. When you
get on a track and follow one of those three RWDers, you'll
see them
getting tail-happy whilst your VR4 stays firmly
planted.
Also, you don't have to go through a turn at 5,000 rpm. For
example, I was
trying to perfect the lines at our Marshalltown go-kart track,
which we
normally run in 2nd gear. Instead, for practice I ran the entire
course in
3rd gear, shifting down to 2nd only at the hairpin, and my times
were only
off by a second or two per lap. I attribute the slower times to
not
launching out of the turns in 2nd, but my times through the turns at
2500
rpm in 3rd were the same as 4000-5000 rpm in 2nd.
The correct
way through any turn that requires braking or lifting is:
Brake and
downshift in a STRAIGHT LINE BEFORE THE TURN-IN POINT. Be at the
correct
corner speed and in the correct gear before you enter the turn. Do
not shift
or brake until you have clipped the apex and are accelerating away.
Turn
in smoothly, clip the apex, and get back on the gas -- not hard, don't
floor
it -- but feed just enough to plant the car and let the power and
suspension
work for you. Under power, the car will pull right through the
turn, When you
get really, really fast after many laps of high speed
practice...nah, I don't
want to go there yet. For the moment, NO POWER
until you clip the apex. When
you master that, along with some
autocrossing, we'll talk some
more.
Drift out (this does not mean slide or the classic
four-wheel
drift...instead, let the car "move" or go where it wants) to the
exit point
of the corner. Essentially, you turn in to a right hand turn by
smoothly
and gently turning the wheel to the right from the turn in point to
the
apex then, under power, unwind the wheel as the car drifts to the left
over
to the exit point. As you apply more and more power, the car will
drift
left all by itself. If you are dealing with oncoming traffic on a two
lane
road, stay in your lane, of course. If you have the room, let the car
drift
all the way to the edge of the road at the exit. At the exit point,
you
should be under full throttle.
Even a one-lane turn has a turn in
point, an apex, and an exit.
Practice this technique on ALL turns in the
city or on your commute. Brake,
downshift, turn in, clip the apex, power on,
drift to the exit, then full
power on and upshift. Work on being smooth,
smooth, smooth. The technique
works at every speed, from sedate speed limit
stuff in one lane in your
neighborhood to high speed freeway ramps to twisty
roads in the country.
Watch for oncoming traffic. Work on being smooth, no
matter how fast you
are going.
Remember, it is not how fast you enter
the turn, but how fast you leave the
exit point that matters. You cannot
enter a 35 mph 2nd gear corner at 90
mph -- you will simply go off the road.
I'll try my hand at the local AutoX this Fall
>and maybe try
to find a school (if they are not all full yet) for the
>performance
handling characteristics.
Good. The sooner the better. Let us know when
and where, and we'll give you
some car prep advice.
>
> .
At the Midwest
>Gathering I may be installing a boost controller and an
air filter or just
>looking at how much that adds and go back to have it
done.
I advise not. Go for a boost controller if you are into drag
racing, but
not if you are planning to do any high speed road course work.
I've been at
this road course stuff for two years, and I'm still running a
stock engine.
Believe me, a stock VR4 is plenty fast enough. When driven
properly, a
stock-engine VR4 is the equal to anything on the track except for
Vipers,
AWD TT Porsches, and Dr Jack T's VR4 (nothing runs with that one!).
When
you can handle a stock-engine VR4 properly, and you start playing
with
Vipers, then add horsepower to it -- 2-3 years from now.
If you
insist on spending money on your new toy, get better tires, springs
and
brakes. All that extra horsepower will do is get you into
trouble.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/been there, done
that
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 08:28:12
-0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Tire Help!!!
I ran 30/26 on the Kumhos at Thunderhill (cold tems)
and had to adjust the front
down 2psi when they got warm..worked
well.
Still have the base of the nipples on the tread too after a day on
course. Cant
wait till January when we get it out there on more like
20-24psi.
Also, you don't have to go through a turn at 5,000 rpm.
- ---
I agree, mistake here. High RPMs unbalance a car..which
is..bad.
Anyone in the bay area is welcome to come with me
(and observe/ride with us..not
drive) in a free Thunderhill day in
January.
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:11:25
-0500
From: "Basol, John" <
jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: A/F meter Installation?
Erik. You can hook up a digital
volt meter if you wish to simply check the
A/F quickly to determine if the
engine is running lean. I'm not sure of
exactly which pin you connect
to, but someone will probably know the answer
to that one.
John
Basol
'95 RT/TT
-----Original Message-----
From: Gross,
Erik [
SMTP:erik.gross@intel.com]
Sent:
Friday, June 30, 2000 3:46 PM
To: 'Team3S List'; 'Starnet 3Si Mailing List';
'Dragnet 3S
Mailing List'
Subject: Team3S: A/F meter
Installation?
Hi All,
I know some of you have Air/Fuel mixture meters
or gauges
installed
in your 3/Ss - what kind do you have and where did you
install it?
Depending on cost/hassle, I'm interested in installing
such
a
gauge/meter in my 3000GT. I don't need an integrated unit
with a
boost
controller/turbo timer or anything like that because I have a
NA
car. So
assuming such a beast exists (I figure it's got to),
where does one
install
the sensor? In the manifold somewhere?
In case anyone is curious, the reason I'm thinking about
an
A/F
meter is that my car is still lightly pinging (posted about
serious
pinging
a while back). I've got the compression down now
(178-188psi, spec
is
185psi), and the intake manifold, plenum, intake
valves, cylinder
walls, and
piston tops are all nice and shiny now.
Also, I checked the timing
- - it's
within spec (basic and
actual). I also grounded the ignition
timing
adjustment
terminal and drove the car around the block (effectively
holding
the
timing to 5 degrees) and I could still hear some pinging.
Since the timing,
compression, fuel type (Texaco Premium -
92
octane), and air filter, all
appear to be ok AND I don't have a
check engine
light on, the only thing I
can figure is that something is making
the engine
run lean (clogged FI,
low fuel pressure, bad sensor that's not
setting off
the check engine
light, etc). Before checking out things that would
make
the engine
run lean, I'd like to see if in fact it is running
lean.
Thanks!
--Erik
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:48:46
+0200
From:
lehir@genesiscom.ch
(Genesiscon Lehir)
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tire Help!!!
>>First, I
have NEVER slid my VR4 -- not on at an autocross,
Marshalltown
>>go-kart track or at Blackhawk Farms, Heartland Park or
Road America, on
>>street tires or race tires.
Ahem....you
should try do drive it on snow ;-)
>>Well, once, I guess -- during
a flat-out corner in Marshalltown at
>>about 70 in 2nd, I got into a
full power drift
Could be fun
>>This includes lifting in
turns, braking in turns, and all
>>manner of stuff the driving
instructors tell you not to do.
Well....in fact...when you KNOW how to do
the "no-no", you can even
manage to do it "right"....an experienced
racer may do a severe "no-no"
action, without any drama....and a rookie will
do "about" the same, and
spin.
Do not underrate your
reflexes.
>>Our cars are so well balanced, such activities
don't affect us much.
Laws of physics CANNOT be broken
!!
>>Since our cars handle extremely well, this leads me to one of
three
>>conclusions:
>>1. Darren's tires suck. More
accurately, they don't stick for diddley.
Afaik, he has Pirelli
P-Zero....and _I_ don't like them AT ALL.
>> This could be because
of the tires being terrible or maybe low tire
pressure.
As
well...
Could have been some gravel on the road as
well.
>>Pump them suckers up, at least to the recommended
pressures.
I use recommended tire pressure + 0.3 bar...but it might be
different in a
18' tire
>>Somebody suggested running some local
autocrosses, and I agree.
>>Auto-X is good for low speed (1st and 2nd
gear) stuff and developing
>>quick reflexes on the steering, brake and
clutch (although you won't shift
much).
If ONLY we had X-Crossing in
Europe.....that would certainly be fun !!!
>>Call up your local BMW
or Porsche dealer
Damm, why are BMW and Porsches ALWAYS involved in such
events, and why
Mitsubishi/Nissan/Mazda/Subaru/Toyota/Honda
NEVER....?????
>>and go to it before you kill
yourself.
Ditto....and before you kill your car...or somebody
else.
>>but you will be 10 times the driver you are now when it's
all over.
Yup, and it'll be FUN !!!!!
>>Let us know when and
where you are going, and we'll have some tips for you
>>on car
prep.
Like....bring spare brake pads, spare rotors (in case they
crack....just
joking...), brake fluid,
a compressor, "water wetter",
distillated water, good tools, grease, a
multimeter, aluminium
tape,
zip-locks, multimeter, oil, RainX, a tow rope, etc etc
etc.....
Henri
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 13:22:44
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tire Help!!!
>>>First, I have NEVER slid my VR4
>>Ahem....you should try do drive it on snow ;-)
>
I don't
drive it in the winter.
>>>Our cars are so well balanced, such
activities don't affect us much.
>Laws of physics CANNOT be broken
!!
Still, our cars have a superior suspension and balance. We can do
things
that would put a 911 into the weeds.
>
>
>Could
have been some gravel on the road as well.
Nah...The more I think about it,
it seems that Darren has been dive-bombing
corners and early apexing. It's
about the only thing that makes sense.
>
>If ONLY we had X-Crossing
in Europe.....that would certainly be fun !!!
You have
hillclimbs.
>
>>>Call up your local BMW or Porsche
dealer
>>Damm, why are BMW and Porsches ALWAYS involved in such events,
and why
>Mitsubishi/Nissan/Mazda/Subaru/Toyota/Honda
NEVER....?????
Alfa and Audi Quattro are involved,
too.
>>>Let us know when and where you are going, and we'll have
some tips for you
>>>on car prep.
>>Like....bring spare
brake pads, spare rotors (in case they crack....just
>joking...), brake
fluid,
>a compressor, "water wetter", distillated water, good tools,
grease, a
>multimeter, aluminium tape,
>zip-locks, multimeter, oil,
RainX, a tow rope, etc etc etc.....
>
Henri, don't scare him off. We'll
get him into some new pads and fluid, and
just leave it there for the moment.
We want him to come back.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#184
*********************