team3s             Tuesday, June 27 2000             Volume 01 : Number 177




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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:37:09 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Nitrous Questions

#1. There is a lot spoken about fuel flow but I'm sure the Supra TT pump,
#Walbro or bigger Densos flow way enough for you. BTW, you need to say
#20-25GPH @ 47psi as this is the fuel pressure in the line and you probably
#are attaching to it for the additional fuel spray.

All I know is that the NOS webiste says .1 GPH per additional HP @ 5 psi.
Of course, it also says that I would need .1 GPH per total HP @ 5 psi (If
I'm using one fuel pump for both nitrous and standard fuel flow)  How do I
translate this to our fuel pressures of 47 psi?

#2. I don't know much about the internals but I was told by the Mitsu
#importer that they must be different. This because in Europe the NA cars
#have never been imported (no market for them) and the TT parts are not
#fitting them. I know because on a car the belt slipped and other damage
#occured and all the parts must have been orderd from japan.

That kinda makes sense if it was head damage, as I know for sure the heads
are slightly different.  My main concern is bottom end - do we know anything
about that?

#3. For nitrous activation you can install a progressive system that is
#controlled by something like an injector controller (the MF2 from
#ERL I use
#for WI can also control such apps)

Where can I find this?  Who sells it?

#4. For a good position I'd suppose the rear of the intake plenum where you
#can spray directly into the runners (three nozzles required, positioned
#between the runners. This is the usual place where additional
#injectors are
#placed and should work for nitrous too.

Would it be better to plumb one for each runner?  With the three, I know it
would be cheaper, but would there be problems with running leaner in one
cyulinder than in the next?

#5. You can buy the small MSD retarding box or the DIS-4 with two stage
#limiter. Bot allows you to retard thw timing enough. I don't see a need to
#reduce the gap of the plugs for now.

I think I will anyways, NOS recommends tightening down at least .005 on the
plugs.  I think factory are like .043 on the N/A's, maybe a little smaller,
SO I think I'll go at least to .035...

#6. Not sure as Nitrous lowers the EGT extremely too. If you run a 1st gen
#car you may catch a datalogger where you can see the desired timing , fuel
#injection, O2 readings as well as ... knock. When my car ever runs
#again, I
#test the MSD knock sensor as I just installed it ! There are also
#retard-systems with a knock sensor on the marktet. This would provide you
#the most secure using of nitrous.

Good points.  I'll definitely keep that in mind...  Thanks Roger...

- -Cody


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:02:17 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Check Engine Light - Uh-Oh

This sounds similar to what I experienced when I bought my car.  It turned out
to be a broken hose barb on the boost control solenoid (it is all plastic).
Thus the car was overboosting and with normal spark plug gap the engine would
hesitate as boost climbed beyound stock levels.  The check engine light probably
came on due to the unburnt fuel passing the O2 sensors.

You need to check all your hoses that control the wastegates as described in the
previous few "Overboost" posts.  Also check out the boost control solenoid -- it
is in the middle of the firewall across from the throttle body, it is the
nearest to the center of the group of 4 soleonids.

Good luck,
Ken

>
> My car is due it's 60k service. Just waiting for some parts. Took it for
> a 2.5 hour run to a friends house and while there we went for a rip.
> Full on accel. in 2nd up to redline and I noticed a severe lack of power
> although I was getting full boost. Once I hit third I eased off the
> power and the Check Engine light came on for 2 secs, went out and then
> came on for 2 secs again. All gauges were reading correctly and it
> didn't come on again until this morning on the drive back while doing a
> steady 60mph in 3rd it came on for 1 sec and went out again. I'm leaving
> the car off the road now until the service and hopefully the problem is
> minor and will go away after the service and boost controller are fitted
> (setting it to .9bar max).
>
> Good Points:
> Oil Pressure Perfect
> Temp Perfect
> Oil on dipstick clean and full
> Coolant level full
> Boost buildup smooth and up to 1bar then bleeding off smoothly to
> .4-.6bar depending on gear
>
> Bad Points:
> Accelerate and then let off throttle and the car is jerky while revs
> drop
> Intake noise has gotten odd and screechy sounding and there is a
> definite screech from what I assume is the BOV on throttle release at
> 4500rpm
> Fuel cut coming in just over 1bar (previous owner has removed boost
> controller but I have a new one ordered).
>
> Anyone recognise anything in my description??
>
> thanks in advance
> Gordon
> Dublin, Ireland
> 1993 Japanese Import VR4
> http://fly.to/mr.ie
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

- --
Forget world peace -- visualize using your turn signal!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego

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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:17:47 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Overboost question

Robby wrote:

> >bigger turbos were installed), we literally saw the boost gauge register 1.8
> >bar of boost. WHICH IS PRETTY DANGEROUS with pump 92 oct. gas.
>
> I think this is a typo, right ? 1.8 bar of boost is impossible with the 13g
> as the max is around 1.4 bar (I know... very well !!). Even with the 550cc
> Fuel cut would have been initated at 1.3bar as thsi is where they would
> have been maxxed out for a long time. If you really have read this amount
> of boost you have a problem with your gauge.

According to Josh at TEC, abnormally high boost levels
can be possible due to an extremely rich condition and/or
an extremely retarded timing condition.  Why?  There is
so much fuel and/or the timing is so retarded that lots of
fuel is leaving the cylinder, making its way into the turbine
housing, igniting in the turbine housing and thus "boosting"
the turbine wheel itself.

Julian's spark plugs indicated an ~extremely~ rich condition,
abnormally rich for a car which at the time had the stock
injectors and no fuel controller.

I also inspected Julian's old turbos, and they showed signs
of massive carbon deposits as well as possible detonation
within the turbine housing.

> >Could it be becos I have a faulty ECU?
>
> No, why ?? It can do nothing to this behaviour if the stock solenoid is out
> of way!

This problem may have started for Julian (we are not totally
sure) when he installed a California-spec MAF sensor, even
though his car is a non-California VR4.  He was replacing
his MAF because he had punched out all the honeycombs
in his old one, thus leading to idling problems (which explains
why he replaced so many other things related to vehicle idle).

Another list member has said that replacing certain components
on our cars (such as the ISC) can cause the ECU to short out.
Even barring that, certain events (such as installing the wrong
part for the car) can indeed cause damage to the ECU which
can lead to various problems and not be reported by a check
engine light.  I received directions from Mike Murray on how
to jumper the ECU back to the factory timing, and we're going
to try that next on Julian's car.

> >  Errin disagrees and points to the fact that we ran the car without the
> >AVC-R on stock boost and I was still climbing to unsafe boost levels. What
> >are your thoughts on this matter?
>
> Well, what does "without" the BC mean ?? Have you already done the
> described procedure with no luck ?

After I saw Julian's high boost situation, verified with two separate
boost controllers, the FIRST thing I did was remove his boost
controller from the system and plug the wastegate actuators into
the Y-pipe.  Of course, this should have caused the wastegates
to open at about 5-6 psi, but the condition did not change.  It also
did not change when I plugged the system back into his stock
boost solenoid.  High boost persisted.  At the time I suspected
that his wastegates (or actuators) were bad, but now that he has
new turbos it rules that out.  If the problem is due to an extreme
rich condition and/or extremely retarded timing, it is such that the
detonation in the turbine is continuing to produce boost even with
the wastegates open.

However, I think I'm going to reroute his boost gauge hoses or
add another boost gauge to the mix.

> >Could this be an overly rich condition thus causing severe timing
> >retardation?
>
> No, a super-rich condition doesn't have an effect to the timing. A super
> lean would have due to knock.

I'd been trying to explain to Julian that the rich condition and
retarded timing might be going hand in hand, but not necessarily
directly causing one another.  I had been suspecting a faulty
sensor (CPS, knock, O2), but Julian has remained convinced
by his mechanic that these would all lead to other noticeable
symptoms.  I say that things aren't always so obvious.

> Boost over 1.4 bars and you can go to the rebuilder directly ! No, 1.8 is
> simply not possible. I have 13gs and they are only another compressor

I think Julian's engine has survived this massive boost condition
(which is mostly in the lower-mid rpms anyway) because it is
running extremely rich with retarded timing.  The causes for this
remain to be discovered.

- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle


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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:34:16 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Overboost question

>>I'd have to disagree on the max boost issue.  I've had 9Bs peak at 1.6 bar
>>before.  Of course 9Bs won't hold this amount of boost and I hit fuel cut
>>at the time, but if the 9Bs can make more than 1.4 bar, then I think the
>>13G should be able too.

> Guys, what the .... are you doing on that high boost. These are boost
> spikes and fuel cut kicks in at 1.3 bar latest. The discharge temperature
> is so high that the IC cannot do anything that makes sense !  Of course the
> water injection helps but my logger saw still high knock !!

Well, Curt is insane for even thinking about letting his car see that high of a boost level on stock pistons, however I agree that you can spike to very high levels around 3000 RPM to 4000 RPM on stock turbos, however it isn't going to hold it long (and the turbo output temps are going to be insanely high) and the probability of extreme knock and detontation is very high.

I said:

>>Nope, boost control is purely mechanical on these cars.

Roger said:

> Matt, this is not fully correct. Although it is purly mechanical it is also
> controlled by the ECU via the stock boost solenoid valve. This is why it
> should be removed out of the system !

True, the solenoid is part of the equation, but if the hoses are hooked up correctly and are clear of obstruction then the solenoid can only contribute about 2-3 psi of additional boost.  There's got to be a plugged hose or connector or something* like that which is causing the problem.

I guess what I meant when I said the boost control system is mechanical is that the wastegates are purely controlled by air pressure and not directly by the ECU.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:30:28 +0200
From: "Robby/SOL" <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Overboost question

> According to Josh at TEC, abnormally high boost levels
> can be possible due to an extremely rich condition and/or
> an extremely retarded timing condition.  Why?  There is
> so much fuel and/or the timing is so retarded that lots of
> fuel is leaving the cylinder, making its way into the turbine
> housing, igniting in the turbine housing and thus "boosting"
> the turbine wheel itself.

This is extremely seldom and only on cars that have been driven every hard
where the turbine hosuing of the turbo is gettign extremely hot and then the
fuel may ignite. It is possible but I'm positive that thsi is too far away
from the solution.

> This problem may have started for Julian (we are not totally
> sure) when he installed a California-spec MAF sensor, even
> though his car is a non-California VR4.  He was replacing
> his MAF because he had punched out all the honeycombs
> in his old one, thus leading to idling problems (which explains
> why he replaced so many other things related to vehicle idle).

No, the MAF is the same only the maps for timing and fuel are different as
well as some have EGR sensors and that stuff. I think it's correct to think
of this stuff when all the others infront are solved and they are not.
Replacing a boost controller with another is not the way I'd go besides of
the possibility that something fries it :-)

> Another list member has said that replacing certain components
> on our cars (such as the ISC) can cause the ECU to short out.

Yes, possible if you connect them with the battery enabled and ignition on.

> to open at about 5-6 psi, but the condition did not change.  It also
> did not change when I plugged the system back into his stock
> boost solenoid.  High boost persisted.

Does this mean that you did not made the vacuum pump test as I tried to
describe. How do you know if one hose is damaged or something in the hose
itselfs that causes it blocked ?? IMHO, it's better to test the stuff
correctly and not to trial and error on the street.

> At the time I suspected that his wastegates (or actuators) were bad,
> but now that he has new turbos it rules that out.

Yes, and the hoses ????

> If the problem is due to an extreme rich condition and/or extremely
> retarded timing, it is such that the detonation in the turbine is
> continuing to produce boost even with the wastegates open.

Then, the igniting of the fuel would be happen after the turbine as there is
where it want to go. The explosion would not drive the turbine wheel that
much up to crazy 1.8 bars.

> However, I think I'm going to reroute his boost gauge hoses or
> add another boost gauge to the mix.

Make life easier and simply use a cheap pump to make the hoses/actuator
test.

> I think Julian's engine has survived this massive boost condition
> (which is mostly in the lower-mid rpms anyway) because it is
> running extremely rich with retarded timing.  The causes for this
> remain to be discovered.

Well, we don't know what gauge showed this amount of boost.

Again, ... what fuel controller is used ???
Also, is the stock boost out of the road or what ? Is it plugged up or not
???
... and what about the list of mods that would count ?

Report back how the pump test as I described in the previous message worked
out (exactly follwo the procedure) and let's go for the next step then.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:17:58 -0700
From: "Dr. John A. Tabler" <jtabler@summitmicro.com>
Subject: Team3S: SRS light

Hi All,
   I just had some body work done, and I have a question about the SRS
light.
It comes on when the car is started, and then goes off in about 5
seconds.

Is this normal?

Thanks,
JAT


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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:10:02 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: SRS light

Yes --- It runs an internal diagnostic then goes out.

        Jim Berry
=======================================
> Hi All,
>    I just had some body work done, and I have a question about the SRS
> light.
> It comes on when the car is started, and then goes off in about 5
> seconds.
>
> Is this normal?
>
> Thanks,
> JAT



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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:53:57 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Stupid questions

A few stupid questions.

Antisieze stuff:

I've had problems breaking off wheel studs (three last year) after open
tracking, so on the advice of folks on this list I went out and bought some
anti-sieze compound (at a billion dollars a tube), applied it to the wheel
studs, and Eureka! It works!

Stupid question no. 1:  Should I put the stuff on EVERY time I change
wheels? If the studs are all silvery from the last application, does that
mean the compound is still working?

Stupid question no. 2:  I ran about 75 laps at a predominantly left-hand
track the other day, which of course puts all the wear on the right front,
and three of the four wheels came off no problem. The left front wheel
required Godzilla-like strength (i.e, standing on the lug wrench)  to break
the wheel nuts loose.  What's happening here? Why did the left front sieze
up and not the right front?

Pagid Blacks (pads)

I don't know anybody who runs these pads, so I can't compare notes. When I
first put them in, and ran them on the street,  they spewed black dust
everywhere. After the first track event, they stopped spewing.
Stupid question no. 3: Is this normal? Do they just require a real good
burn in? What is street driving going to do to  these pads? Eat them up?

Missing brake fluid

Two times now, I've gone to the track with a full brake reservoir, and both
times I've gotten the big red BRAKE indicator that means I'm low on fluid.
I can't find any trace of a leak anywhere. I'm running Racer's Blue and
Motul, mixed together, and I have SS lines.
Stupid question no. 4:  Where can brake fluid go?  Where else should I be
looking?

I am seriously considering buying a set of wheels (Milli Miglia Emotions)
and tires (Kuomo) from TireRack. They CLAIM that I can use the wheels for
open tracking.
Stupid question no. 5:  Has anyone bought wheels from TireRack, used them
on a track, and bent them up (or whatever happens to weak wheels)? What did
Tire Rack do? Stand behind the wheels? Take it/them back? Replace them?
Stupid question no. 6: Can Milli Miglia Emotions be used for open tracking
on a 3800 lb car? (I hope they can, because my stock chromies are HEAVY,
and the Emotions are wide open for better brake cooling).

Driving on race tires
I've been driving back and forth to the Marshalltown go-kart track on my
Yoko 032R tires (60 miles each way), and I've heard people on the list talk
about driving as much as 300 miles to events. But somebody said, "You can't
drive a race tire at highway speeds!  They will heat up, expand, and blow
out!" The dude was an instructor, so I gotta lend some credence to this.
Stupid question no 7: What does normal highway driving do to race tires?

Rich/94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:40:22 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stupid questions

A few stupid questions.

Antisieze stuff:

I've had problems breaking off wheel studs (three last year) after open
tracking, so on the advice of folks on this list I went out and bought some
anti-sieze compound (at a billion dollars a tube), applied it to the wheel
studs, and Eureka! It works!

Stupid question no. 1:  Should I put the stuff on EVERY time I change
wheels? If the studs are all silvery from the last application, does that
mean the compound is still working?
- ---

Yes, it never dries out..just wont seem "there" or "wet" after a while..safe to
reapply.
Also take a box or something clean to place lugnuts in while changing
tires..that stuff will pick up lots of grit off the ground and your hands as you
handle the lugnuts..every now and again clean the studs with a rag..and we
change our lugnuts about 2x a year..and hunting down some deeper open lugnuts
now too.



Driving on race tires
I've been driving back and forth to the Marshalltown go-kart track on my
Yoko 032R tires (60 miles each way), and I've heard people on the list talk
about driving as much as 300 miles to events. But somebody said, "You can't
drive a race tire at highway speeds!  They will heat up, expand, and blow
out!" The dude was an instructor, so I gotta lend some credence to this.
Stupid question no 7: What does normal highway driving do to race tires?
- ---

You can drive that tire at speed..what you CANT do is retain the properties of
the rubber when you drive em on the street.

The more/longer they heat cycle from driving, the quicker the rubber goes
useless.  Wont be as sticky, the rubber will tend to shear away and not
catch-grip/stretch-return..etc.

Hes full of CRAP..blow up my ass.  They'll run with less pressre on the highway
than on course.

Ive also now negated ALL understeer in the car upgrading to 3/4" spacers up
front..car was a WELL balanced fun-run on the course..first time its ever felt
so natural at speed.

Rich/94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:28:20 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stupid questions

>Ive also now negated ALL understeer in the car upgrading to 3/4" spacers up
>front..car was a WELL balanced fun-run on the course..first time its ever
felt
>so natural at speed.

Tell me again how you did that. As I recall, you run spacers to line up the
front with the rear, or something like that, and you have longer wheel
studs that you got from some shop in Omaha. More details please. How can I
do that? Where do I get the parts? (I've looked for the longer wheel studs,
but had no luck).
>
>Rich/94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4


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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:17:50 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stupid questions

Call up:

http://www.rallydist.com/

Talk to Lou..tell him Jeff with the VR4 and Supra sent ya..he can get you your
studs..he did ours.

And we spent $10/ea on 3/4" spacers we just plant between the wheel and the hub.
I will however consider and investigate the worthyness of adding 3/4" to the hat
of the wheel ITSELF..or get some custom spacers that are hub-centric made.

Stock fitting, the car is .8" narrower in front than rear..this spells
"understeer"..and lots of it.  Being so heavy in front not even an even track
felt "good" but with a front track 1/2" wider in front really lets the car hook
evenly now..not even a hard snap-back in the rear if you play with it some.

With the studs he has, you could..if you wanted..go 3" wider per wheel...MUCH
longer studs, and hold torque better too.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Merritt [mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 8:28 AM
To: Mohler, Jeff; opentracking@topica.com; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stupid questions


>Ive also now negated ALL understeer in the car upgrading to 3/4" spacers up
>front..car was a WELL balanced fun-run on the course..first time its ever
felt
>so natural at speed.

Tell me again how you did that. As I recall, you run spacers to line up the
front with the rear, or something like that, and you have longer wheel
studs that you got from some shop in Omaha. More details please. How can I
do that? Where do I get the parts? (I've looked for the longer wheel studs,
but had no luck).
>
>Rich/94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:11:59 -0700
From: Jim Watkins <jwatkins@mails.terayon.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stupid questions

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> Missing brake fluid
>
> Two times now, I've gone to the track with a full brake reservoir, and both
> times I've gotten the big red BRAKE indicator that means I'm low on fluid.
> I can't find any trace of a leak anywhere. I'm running Racer's Blue and
> Motul, mixed together, and I have SS lines.
> Stupid question no. 4:  Where can brake fluid go?  Where else should I be
> looking?

Rich,  If you are chewing through pads as a previous post indicated, the
pistons are having to push out further and that means lower fluid levels in the
reservoir.  You'll have to have more fluid in the system when the pad linings
are thin.

Jim
91 VR4/going out to get antiseize for open tracking


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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:16:39 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stupid questions

Antisieze is a good idea on any car..not just a track car.

Long are the days since tire shops understood that...

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Watkins [mailto:jwatkins@mails.terayon.com]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 5:12 PM
To: Merritt
Cc: opentracking@topica.com; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stupid questions


> Missing brake fluid
>
> Two times now, I've gone to the track with a full brake reservoir, and both
> times I've gotten the big red BRAKE indicator that means I'm low on fluid.
> I can't find any trace of a leak anywhere. I'm running Racer's Blue and
> Motul, mixed together, and I have SS lines.
> Stupid question no. 4:  Where can brake fluid go?  Where else should I be
> looking?

Rich,  If you are chewing through pads as a previous post indicated, the
pistons are having to push out further and that means lower fluid levels in the
reservoir.  You'll have to have more fluid in the system when the pad linings
are thin.

Jim
91 VR4/going out to get antiseize for open tracking


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:19:24 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stupid questions

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>


> Ive also now negated ALL understeer in the car upgrading to 3/4" spacers up
> front..car was a WELL balanced fun-run on the course..first time its ever felt
> so natural at speed.
==================================================


That seems like a bunch --- do you have custom hub-centric spacers yet or are
you using brand X with longer studs ???

PS. I ran across this outfit some time ago but had no need to call them.
      sounds like they may make custom adapters.
      http://www.wheeladapter.com/

        Jim Berry


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:23:14 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stupid questions

"brand-X" for testing, but its worked well enough to have spacers custom made or
welded to the wheels..

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 6:19 PM
To: Mohler, Jeff; merritt@cedar-rapids.net; opentracking@topica.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stupid questions



- ----- Original Message -----
From: <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>


> Ive also now negated ALL understeer in the car upgrading to 3/4" spacers up
> front..car was a WELL balanced fun-run on the course..first time its ever felt
> so natural at speed.
==================================================


That seems like a bunch --- do you have custom hub-centric spacers yet or are
you using brand X with longer studs ???

PS. I ran across this outfit some time ago but had no need to call them.
      sounds like they may make custom adapters.
      http://www.wheeladapter.com/

        Jim Berry

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:35:39 -0700
From: "Chris Maxwell" <shmacker@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Installed high flow pump, car stumbled on quick right turn...

I installed the HK$ high flow pump today and finally got the AFC working and
then went for a test spin.  The fuel level was a tick under 1/4 and when I
made a quick right turn at an intersection (roughly 20mph, maybe a little
less), the car stumbled (like it had no fuel perhaps and wanted to stall)
for about a second until I got out of the turn.  It was fine when I was
going straight again.  Could this be a fuel pickup problem?  Perhaps I was a
little careless in installing the new fuel pump?  This is the only thing
that I can think of since the car never did this before and I've made right
turns much faster than that and with less gas without a problem.  Oh, and
the problem was repeatable as I tried it at the next intersection.  I filled
up the tank and that seems to have solved the problem for now, but I have a
feeling that when the tank gets lower again, the problem will return.  If I
screwed up installing the pump, what might I have done to have caused this?

If this problem could be caused by something else, please share your ideas.
=)

Thannks again,
Chris
92 R/T TT (after 3 months of torture, the car runs again...although somewhat
sickly)


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:54:38 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Installed high flow pump, car stumbled on quick right turn...

That happens to us anything under about 1/3rd tank in long hard turns in autox..

Just use more gas..no tank issue.  Probly with a faster pump, you get more air
in the line quicker compared to a slower pump.

I hate racing on anything less than 3/4 tank anyway, car becomes funky in quick
transitions.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Maxwell [mailto:shmacker@home.com]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 6:36 PM
To: stealth@stls.verio.net; team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Installed high flow pump, car stumbled on quick right
turn...


I installed the HK$ high flow pump today and finally got the AFC working and
then went for a test spin.  The fuel level was a tick under 1/4 and when I
made a quick right turn at an intersection (roughly 20mph, maybe a little
less), the car stumbled (like it had no fuel perhaps and wanted to stall)
for about a second until I got out of the turn.  It was fine when I was
going straight again.  Could this be a fuel pickup problem?  Perhaps I was a
little careless in installing the new fuel pump?  This is the only thing
that I can think of since the car never did this before and I've made right
turns much faster than that and with less gas without a problem.  Oh, and
the problem was repeatable as I tried it at the next intersection.  I filled
up the tank and that seems to have solved the problem for now, but I have a
feeling that when the tank gets lower again, the problem will return.  If I
screwed up installing the pump, what might I have done to have caused this?

If this problem could be caused by something else, please share your ideas.
=)

Thannks again,
Chris
92 R/T TT (after 3 months of torture, the car runs again...although somewhat
sickly)


***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:52:55 -0500
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Overboost question

So far, i havent heard anything bad about the driveability of the car
(smoke, misfire, etc.) which leads me to believe it still runs
fine......Drive on.....no, just kidding. I'm thinking the blow off valve
might be leaking. The turbos will continue to build boost, because the
wastgate "signal" is being recycled upstream.

Of course this diagnosis assumes the engine runs fine.

W

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:13:06 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stupid questions

> Ive also now negated ALL understeer in the car upgrading to 3/4" spacers up
> front..car was a WELL balanced fun-run on the course..first time its ever felt
> so natural at speed.

Hmm, so if I understand this right, the spacers fit between the wheel and the hat of the brake rotor, slipping over the wheel studs?  So you also gain 3/4" clearance between the wheel and the brake calipers as well?  If so, then using the spacers should also open up a whole slew of aftermarket wheels for our cars then too!  I just looked at the rear brakes on my car and the stock wheels clear with about 1/2" in the back and maybe like 1/16" in the front, so hopefully "normal" wheels would fit the back without modification to preserve the handling benefits of Jeff's spacer setup.

Hmmmmmmm...

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:16:51 -0700
From: jeff.mohler@netapp.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stupid questions

Yes..you would get more brake clearance..but with "things" to consider...

Your whole wheel comes out 3/4"..hows yer fender clearance doing?  *grin*



- -----Original Message-----
From: Matt Jannusch [mailto:MAJ@bigcharts.com]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 9:13 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stupid questions


> Ive also now negated ALL understeer in the car upgrading to 3/4" spacers up
> front..car was a WELL balanced fun-run on the course..first time its ever felt
> so natural at speed.

Hmm, so if I understand this right, the spacers fit between the wheel and the
hat of the brake rotor, slipping over the wheel studs?  So you also gain 3/4"
clearance between the wheel and the brake calipers as well?  If so, then using
the spacers should also open up a whole slew of aftermarket wheels for our cars
then too!  I just looked at the rear brakes on my car and the stock wheels clear
with about 1/2" in the back and maybe like 1/16" in the front, so hopefully
"normal" wheels would fit the back without modification to preserve the handling
benefits of Jeff's spacer setup.

Hmmmmmmm...

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:29:54 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Overboost question

> So far, i havent heard anything bad about the driveability of the car
> (smoke, misfire, etc.) which leads me to believe it still runs
> fine......Drive on.....no, just kidding. I'm thinking the blow off valve
> might be leaking. The turbos will continue to build boost, because the
> wastgate "signal" is being recycled upstream.

Leaking BOV - been there, done that.

No, if the BOV leaks then you will see less boost in the Y-pipe and intake manifold (which I assume is where it is being measured - in the manifold after the throttle body).  The wastegate "signal" is whatever is present in the Y-pipe, so in the event of a leaking BOV the turbos will attempt to hold your desired boost, but will be working harder to achieve the same level of boost to make up for what is being lost though the BOV.  The fuel mixture will still be fine since the air in the system is being recirculated and less "new" air is coming in to be measured by the MAF sensor.  What's happening here is the opposite of that - the turbos are easily making plenty of boost (on stock turbos, I'd consider anything at or beyond 1.3 bars to be plenty, if not excessive) which, at least in my opinion, points squarely at some sort of wastegate or wastegate signal line malfunction.

Roger's advice of using a hand pump with a pressure gauge on it is the best advice so far since then you can make sure both wastegates and the associated lines are functioning properly.  Cap off the line going to the boost control solenoid when doing the test (if you haven't removed or capped this counter-productive line already) to get stable pressures to see exactly when the wastegates both open.  If only one or neither open, then suspect a plugged hose somewhere.

Or, try my advice and just replace the boost control system hoses, getting rid of the "H connector" and solenoid hose completely, test to verify that the car produces 6-8 psi boost, then if it does consider the problem solved and hook up the boost controller.  Of course, with all the hoses to the rear of the motor it is very difficult to hook up the wastegate line to the rear turbo which makes Roger's diagnostic that much more compelling since it could be the H connector or feed line from the Y-pipe which is the problem.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:12:30 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stupid questions

>Rich,  If you are chewing through pads as a previous post indicated, the
>pistons are having to push out further and that means lower fluid levels
in the
>reservoir.  You'll have to have more fluid in the system when the pad linings
>are thin.
>
Nope, the Pagids wear like iron. That ain't it. Thanks, tho.

Rich

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue Jun 27 08:18:04 2000
From: StealthCT@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Dyno

I have a 1994 TT with quite a few mods but here are the ones which are responsible for the 443HP.
MSD ignition,VPC,HKS fuel pump, RC 560 injectors, G Force ECU,15G turbo's,ATR downpipe, Borla exhaust, Greddy BOV, upgraded FPR, Alamo intercoolers,and custom pre-cat pipes(Thanks to BE King).  The temperature was 82 degrees, there was a large fan in front and a seperate blower for the intercooler.  Boost was set at
1.3 bar and I was running pump gas.  At the track I run race gas with a 50 shot of NOS and 1.45 bar of  boost so  I am assuming based on the dyno results my track HP is close to 500HP at the wheels.  Regards  Charles

***  Info:  http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm  ***

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End of team3s V1 #177
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