team3s
Tuesday, June 13
2000
Volume 01 : Number
169
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:51:16 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
>When I bought my
Porterfield rotors last December, I asked them what
blanks
they
>use. Their reply was that they use Brembo.
Oh my. I did
not know that. No wonder my rotors work so well.
>
>My KVR
crossdrilled 1-piece rotors cracked. They lasted nine months
of
street
>driving with one or two hard 110mph-60mph stops per week and
36 minutes of
>driving school. Before the school, most holes had
lots of stress cracks.
After
>the school, one outermost hole cracked
all the way through one side and
all the
>way to the outside
edge.
Oh my, again! I always thought KVRs were super.
>>
Just buy Porterfields and stop worrying!
>I second that!
It's nice
to be right once in a while. But then again, even a blind
squirrel finds a
chestnut once in a while.
Rich/Old Poop
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:12:15 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
At 04:43 PM 6/13/00 -0400,
WALTER D. BEST wrote:
>I have to agree with Brain, I have had the Power
Stop cross drill rotors for
>over two years and drove a Friday at track,
(Summit Point Raceway) and I
>have no sign of cracking. Planning on
running them again this year.
With all due respect to your driving
ability, I don't think a Friday
afternoon run at Summit Point (presumably
your first on-track event) was
enough to really test your rotors. You need to
get them good and hot, and
bang on them HARD repeatedly, lap after lap. Then,
one lap, they go CLANG!
and you have no brakes.
If you are going to
continue driving those rotors at track events, you need
to be prepared for
broke brakes. When the PowerStop breaks at the hub (see
Curt's photos from a
post or two ago), the pads grab the outer rotor ring
and stop it cold. This
fools the ABS into thinking that the wheel is locked
up, and it eases off the
hydraulic pressure. Apparently, it backs off the
pressure everywhere in the
system, and you lose ALL YOUR BRAKES. Pray for
a nice runoff area when
this happens, because it takes a while to get it
stopped with no brakes.
I recommend that you limit your hard braking to areas that have a
runoff,
else you may be spelling "Mitsubishi" backwards on a concrete wall
somewhere.
Also, you may not want to hit the brakes at any speed over
100 mph. I was
warned by someone that when a rotor breaks in half like
this at very high
speeds, the outer ring can slice off the calipers.
>
>
>Of the folks condemning the drilled rotors how many
of you have had a set
>that did crack, just wondering?
I broke two
PowerSlots (not drilled, just slotted) on two separate occasions.
>As
an SCCA Nationally Licensed Tech Inspector and I haven't seen a GT-1
or
>Trans AM car that didn't have crossed drilled rotors and they don't
seem to
>have problems.
Those cars are quite a bit different.
First, their rotors cost about a
zillion dollars each. Second, they last for
ONLY ONE RACE! Rotors on
TransAm cars are replaced after every race.
They are considered to be
consumable parts.
>
>Could it be if
folks are having problems, it's due to not having
sufficient
>ducting? I don't have the stock wheels maybe that
helps.
Ducting certainly helps. But I think it's substandard rotors that
are the
real problem. Especially since I've heard of the problem ocurring
on
non-Mitsu cars.
Rich/old poop>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:45:00 -0700
From: "Chris Maxwell" <
shmacker@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Putting Engine back together, need help
Hey guys. I have a 92
Stealth TT and I'm putting a new engine (4 bolt main)
into the car and I'm a
little confused. I just put the timing belt on and
adjusted it and put
the lower cover on. The manual then says to connect the
crankshaft and
camshaft position sensors. I don't remember seeing these
sensors when I
took the engine out and I then noticed in the manual that it
says that this
relates to the 93 and up cars. So am I to understand that
these sensors
are not required for my car and therefore were never present?
I searched
through all the parts on the ground and didn't see anything that
looked like
these sensors, or any wires in the engine that would hook up to
these
sensors. So I'm pretty sure that they were never on my car but I
wanted
to stop and check first with you guys before I put anything else back
on the
car.
Thanks again,
Chris
92 R/T TT (out of commission for 3 months,
but the nightmare is almost
over...knock on wood)
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Jun 2000 01:18:48 +0300
From: "Oleg-Telia" <
Oleg@telia.lv>
Subject: Team3S: AFC &
ARC
Hi all,
Anyone use Apexi super AFC with ARC 2 hotwire
sensor?
My AFC ask me for hotwire sensor details (IN 1-15, OUT 1-15,......)
but
there are not information about this in GT PRO manual. ARC use Ford
hotwire
sensor, AFC manual has information about some japan. cars like
Nissan
Skyline, 3000zx, but no ford.
Anybody has this
information?
Thanks,
Oleg Reznik
Latvia
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:31:50 -0400
From: "Eddie" <
stealth3@superservers.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
What a good
discussion.
I went with the Porterfield Rotors and R4S pads.
I
spoke to Matt at Dynamic Racing, and he swears that the stillen
cross-drilled
don't crack, and they are made from the Brembo
blanks.
Thanks.
Eddie
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:51:48 -0600
From: Dave Monarchi <
monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject:
Team3S: OT: window tinting
Sorry for the off topic post.. I'm
looking a good window tint shop that
will do 20-25% metallized (sp?)
tint.. I live in Boulder Colorado, and
all the shops I've been to here
won't do "over" 35% tint since that's
the legal limit.. I'm thinking
about taking a road trip to visit family
in Tucson Arizona, and was
wondering if the law is less strict down there
since it's so much
hotter.. any info would be greatly appreciated..
btw, no flames
please.. I don't need any lecture about legality or
aesthetic
quality.. it's what I want..
thanks!
oh yeah, please reply
privately!
Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4
=
= 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =
= There is no spoon..
=
=======================
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:38:25 -0400
From: GREG RUSH <
rush@siscom.net>
Subject: Team3S: timing
belt
I think I spun a rod but now I am not so sure of this.I was
running
about 5500 rpms and heard a clunk and clanking until the
motor
stalled.It is a 1992 vr4 with 66k on it.At 44k it spun a rod and
the
crank was welded and reground and #6 rod was repaired. they
also
replaced the timing belt water, pump and clutch. I have started to do
a
little troubleshooting. I pulled the top timing belt cover off
and
turned the motor over it almost wanted to start and I thought I herd
a
small back fire. at first the timing belt looked to be tight but after
i
did this it is VERY loose.The oil has not been drained. Yet it
looks
like no antifreeze is on the dip stick. If I did loose a belt
what
problems might I have [bent valves]? Can the belt be easily
replaced
with the motor in the
car?
thanks
rushvr4
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:32:17 -0400
From: "Eddie" <
stealth3@superservers.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Need instructions for gutting pre-cats / ATR Downpipe
Does anyone
have these instructions handy?
Does anyone use the ATR downpipe? - Will I
notice a large improvement with
this (and gutted cats) - over our stock
downpipe? - or should I save my
money and only gut the
pre-cats?
Thanks.
Eddie
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:09:30 -0400
From: "Eddie" <
stealth3@superservers.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
> As for Rotors look at
http://www.racesearch.com/, go to
select manufacture
> and select Porterfield Enterprises, go to street
performance rotors,
select
> model and year.
>
> For my 92
VR4 non-drilled fronts run $110.71 and rear $107.14 and for
> drilled,
$182.14 and drilled rear $178.57. That price is per
rotor,
(each).
I believe that
http://www.porterfieldbrakes.com has
better prices??
Eddie
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:11:21 -0400
From: "Eddie" <
stealth3@superservers.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Need instructions for gutting pre-cats / ATR Downpipe
Does anyone
have these instructions handy?
Does anyone use the ATR downpipe? - Will I
notice a large improvement with
this (and gutted cats) - over our stock
downpipe? - or should I save my
money and only gut the
pre-cats?
Thanks.
Eddie
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:59:45 -0400
From: "WALTER D. BEST" <
WDBO39@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
OK guys you showed me and I will
convert to Porterfield rotors as soon as I
have the money, and before my next
track event this fall, thanks Rich.
As for Rotors look at
http://www.racesearch.com/, go to select
manufacture
and select Porterfield Enterprises, go to street performance
rotors, select
model and year.
For my 92 VR4 non-drilled fronts run
$110.71 and rear $107.14 and for
drilled, $182.14 and drilled rear
$178.57. That price is per rotor, (each).
Hope this helps, I have
found these guys to have very good prices. If
anyone finds a better
price please let us all know.
Thanks,
Dave Best
3Si
#62
http://ifrag.ncsa.uiuc.edu/best/-
----- Original Message -----
From: Eddie <
stealth3@superservers.net>
To:
'Team3S List' <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, June 13, 2000 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors
/ pads?
> What a good discussion.
>
> I went with the
Porterfield Rotors and R4S pads.
>
> I spoke to Matt at Dynamic
Racing, and he swears that the stillen
> cross-drilled don't crack, and
they are made from the Brembo blanks.
>
> Thanks.
>
Eddie
>
>
>
>
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:58:55 -0700
From: Jim Watkins <
jwatkins@terayon.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
This is a multi-part message in
MIME format.
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I think
there could be multiple truths here since the 91-93 rotors
differ from the
94+ rotors. The photos and descriptions of cracked
rotors are from the
94+ configuration. The wheels play a role as well
in terms of total
available heatsink
I have the 91-93 Stillen rotors with R4S pads
installed and Motul 600
fluid and will be hot lapping at Thunderhill very
soon. Previous
experience was with stock 91-93 stuff and I experienced
severe fade
causing me to use the runoff area. Back in the pits I
watched smoke
pour out of the stock brakes. Tried a couple more laps
but the brakes
were glazed over and that was it. But, no cracking on
the stock stuff
with extreme temp.
I'll be bringing spare pads,
rotors, and fluid to the track so that I
can drive home if the Stillens
break.
If I need new rotors, I'll probably get
Porterfields.
Jim
91-VR4
13.38 @ 109 (G-tech)
95-VR4 Spyder 13.75 @ 102
(G-tech)
Eddie wrote:
> What a good discussion.
>
>
I went with the Porterfield Rotors and R4S pads.
>
> I spoke to Matt
at Dynamic Racing, and he swears that the stillen
> cross-drilled don't
crack, and they are made from the Brembo blanks.
>
> Thanks.
>
Eddie
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
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***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:34:39 EDT
From:
AABOMB1@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Somewhat
off-topic - Fuel Injection question
Ok, this is somewhat off-topic
because I don't it was ever features in the
3/S cars, but I was just
wondering if someone here can give me an explanation
of "sequential
multi-point fuel injection" - i.e. and explnation of how it
works and the
advantages it offers.
This, I believe, is features in cars like the
Diamante and the new Maxima
AA
-
-------------------
E-mail:
aabomb@thepentagon.com <or>
aabomb1@aol.comFax: (707) 982-8817 [In
United States]
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:06:08 -0500
From: "Dale T. Kroetz" <
kroetz@mvn.net>
Subject: Team3S: factory
alarm
Could someone please tell me how to completely disable the factory
alarm
system on a 92 3000gt SL. I just bought this car and it is driving
me
crazy going off all the time for no reason. I pulled the fuse and
the
relay and it still works!! The horn doesn't sound off anymore but
the
headlights still flash and stay up.
- --
Dale T.
Kroetz
kroetz@mvn.net***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:08:32 -0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject:
Team3S: Brakes to use? Merritt???
We have a day of free racin
coming up at Thunderhill Monday, and we have
the Porterfiled non-cryo CD'd
rotors.
We also have TWO sets of stock rotors for the car, one with only
20k of use on
em with hawk pads, and the other with unknown..maybe up to 45k
on stock pads.
WHAT should I put on the car?
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:40:03 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
You know, I noticed
yesterday that AutoZone is starting to carry "Brembo"
rotors on the
shelf...
Brad
Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Merritt
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 3:51 PM
To: Ken Middaugh;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
>When I bought my
Porterfield rotors last December, I asked them what
blanks
they
>use. Their reply was that they use Brembo.
Oh my. I did
not know that. No wonder my rotors work so well.
>
>My KVR
crossdrilled 1-piece rotors cracked. They lasted nine months
of
street
>driving with one or two hard 110mph-60mph stops per week and
36 minutes of
>driving school. Before the school, most holes had
lots of stress cracks.
After
>the school, one outermost hole cracked
all the way through one side and
all the
>way to the outside
edge.
Oh my, again! I always thought KVRs were super.
>>
Just buy Porterfields and stop worrying!
>I second that!
It's nice
to be right once in a while. But then again, even a blind
squirrel finds a
chestnut once in a while.
Rich/Old Poop
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:40:02 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Putting Engine back together, need help
You're okay.
Those sensors are for the 93+ cars.
Your car has the two sensors combined
on the round sensor next to the
throttle body.
Brad
Check out
my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Chris Maxwell
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 5:45 PM
To:
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Putting Engine back together, need help
Hey guys. I have a
92 Stealth TT and I'm putting a new engine (4 bolt main)
into the car and I'm
a little confused. I just put the timing belt on and
adjusted it and
put the lower cover on. The manual then says to connect the
crankshaft
and camshaft position sensors. I don't remember seeing these
sensors
when I took the engine out and I then noticed in the manual that it
says that
this relates to the 93 and up cars. So am I to understand that
these
sensors are not required for my car and therefore were never present?
I
searched through all the parts on the ground and didn't see anything
that
looked like these sensors, or any wires in the engine that would hook up
to
these sensors. So I'm pretty sure that they were never on my car but
I
wanted to stop and check first with you guys before I put anything else
back
on the car.
Thanks again,
Chris
92 R/T TT (out of
commission for 3 months, but the nightmare is almost
over...knock on
wood)
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:38:58 -0400
From: "Michael" <
mdorsey@mindspring.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Need instructions for gutting pre-cats / ATR Downpipe
I
recently put the ATR DP on my 98 VR4 with a test pipe. I can
definately
tell a difference. Peak HP seems about the same, but the
curve is much
higher. I don't have cold hard facts like a dyno test,
but I find myself
having to feather the throttle in corners I used to run
WOT. I can also
notice a little loss of low end torque, but nothing to
worry about. My
other mods are DSBC at 1.00 bar, K&N FIPK, and
Borla Exhaust. I also have
NOT gutted the pre-cats, just replaced the
main cat with a test pipe.
Michael
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Eddie
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 18:32
To: 'Team3S
List'
Subject: Team3S: Need instructions for gutting pre-cats / ATR
Downpipe
Does anyone have these instructions handy?
Does
anyone use the ATR downpipe? - Will I notice a large improvement with
this
(and gutted cats) - over our stock downpipe? - or should I save my
money and
only gut the pre-cats?
Thanks.
Eddie
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:50:12 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
Dave,
I know there
were other posts on this, but Trust us, we listen when Rich
speaks about what
works and doesn't.
I personally have watched him (Rich) try almost
everything to make the
stock brakes work better on his car. You might
answer many questions when
you read some of his very detailed posts in
the archives.
As for cracking, Every set of Cross-drilled rotors
I've used have cracked.
I have only seen one break in two pieces
though.
I have had KVR rotors on my car and have had no problems (I
did 10
160+-40mph stops in a row testing my kit, no sign of cracking after
about
15k miles either). Early on, on a set of rotors I sold with my
"Big Red"
kit a KVR rotor split on a customer. KVR replaced it and I've never
heard of
KVR being a problem again. Needless to say, this is why I
don't sell rotors
anymore.
Brad
Check out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of WALTER D. BEST
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 3:43 PM
To: Brian
Geisel; Merritt
Cc: Eddie; 'Team3S List'
Subject: Re: Team3S: Where to buy
brake rotors / pads?
I have to agree with Brain, I have had the Power
Stop cross drill rotors for
over two years and drove a Friday at track,
(Summit Point Raceway) and I
have no sign of cracking. Planning on
running them again this year.
I did go through a set of pads, but they
were the cheap pads, performance
friction or something like that. I now
have Porterfield R4S's and I am
planning on replacing the current set before
I go to the track, with a new
set of R4S's (on the fronts only). I'll
still take the current set in case
the new set retires early.
Of the
folks condemning the drilled rotors how many of you have had a set
that did
crack, just wondering?
As an SCCA Nationally Licensed Tech Inspector and I
haven't seen a GT-1 or
Trans AM car that didn't have crossed drilled rotors
and they don't seem to
have problems.
Could it be if folks are having
problems, it's due to not having sufficient
ducting? I don't have the
stock wheels maybe that helps.
Dave Best
3Si #62
http://ifrag.ncsa.uiuc.edu/best/-
----- Original Message -----
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To:
Brian Geisel <
brian.geisel@compaq.com>
Cc:
Eddie <
stealth3@superservers.net>;
'Team3S List'
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, June 13, 2000 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors
/ pads?
>
> >I'm curious about your comments about
slotted and drilled rotors... I
> >can't personally speak for
slotted, but as for cross drilled, mine
> definitely hold up
>
>much better just under hard street driving. My stock rotors
just
couldn't
> >handle the heat or gas buildup I guess and got
pretty sloppy after some
> >serious braking. As for break-down of the
rotors, Matt (from dynamic
> racing) ran his from
> >180-0mph
three times in a row to be sure the rotors didn't crack. The
>
>stillen cross drilled he had were red hot after that, but didn't
crack.
>
> I'm not sure how long it takes to crack drilled rotors.
I've seen plenty
of
> cracks on other cars (5.0 Mustangs, mostly), and
heard stories here on the
> net. Maybe it's the heavier cars that crack
them the most. I know that
> Porterfield advises against it. Maybe
it has something to do with the
> stresses we put on the rotors under hard
braking and 1G turns on road
> courses.
>
> As for your stock
brakes not handling the heat or gas buildup....I think
if
> you took a
driving course and learned how to brake properly, you would not
> have a
problem with warped rotors. The worst thing you can do to brakes is
> stop
gradually, as in s-l-o-w-l-y increasing brake pressure as
you
approach
> a stop sign, so as not to upset your passengers. This
puts more heat into
> the brakes than a quick stop does.
>
>
Our cars have superb brakes stock -- but they just can't stop from high
>
speeds too many times before the brakes get hot.
>
> >
>
>After reading several posts about these rotors that were so much
better
> >than cross-drilled I figured I'd hit their site. I was
a little confused
> about
> >not cross-drilling at that
point. Here's a clip from their site:
> >"Cross drilling of
Rotors is designed for use on high Performance
> >vehicles. They are
also extremely effective for practical street
> >applications. Cross
Drilling assists cooling of rotor and also lets gas
> >build-up between
pad and Rotor escape. Using these Rotors may
> >actually enhance
braking in wet conditions. "
>
> Pure marketing BS. What this has to
do with wet braking escapes me.
>
> Besides, we already have vented
rotors, which accomplishes the same thing.
> >
> >It sounds
like they're totaly suggesting cross drilling for hard driving.
> >I'm
aware that it eats pads moreso than flat rotors, but if stopping
> >is
what you're going for, cross drilled sure seems like the way to
go.
>
> Not for me.
>
> >Am I missing something on
their site that I should be reading?
>
> No, because there's nothing
bad on the site. They certainly will not
> mention anything about how the
rotors crack so easily that few last long
> enough to be turned. I turn my
Porterfields after EVERY event (Just a
> cleanup turn, to scrape off all
the pad residue and gouges the pad made in
> the rotor surface), which
shows how long they last. I've turned my stock
> rotors about three times
and the Porterfields twice, and they still look
> good.
>
> I
stick to my guns: If you want a better rotor, the best solution is a
>
Porterfield cryogenically treated stock rotor. The next best is another
>
stock rotor.>
>
> Rich/old poop/94 VR4
>
>
***Info:
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***Info:
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***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:44:15 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Brake Advice
I am happy to see so many folks going open tracking.
Our cars are amazing
out there, and the equal of everything on the track
except AWD Porsche
Turbos and Vipers. Have fun, and clean house!
A wee
bit of advice about braking from one who's been there. This applies
to those
who are running stock brakes (i.e., you have not yet upgraded to
Porsche
Turbo Big Reds).
Stock brakes will not work at all. If you run stock
rotors and stock pads,
you will COOK them. After just a few laps, they will
go up in smoke and
fade completely. You can run stock rotors, but you
MUST install racing
pads: I prefer Porterfield R4 pads (not R4S street pads),
but others may
have their favorites.
Before you go to your first
event, install new pads all the way around
(race pads in front, new stock
pads in the rear), drain and replace the
fluid with Ford High
Performance brake fluid (available at your friendly
Ford dealer for a
pittance -- like $3 a pint), and bleed all the brake
lines. There is a proper
sequence for this (RF, LR, LF, RR or something
like that). Check a shop
manual. Put anti-sieze grease on the lug nuts,
because you will generate such
high temperatures at the track, the lug nuts
will sieze. (I've broken off
three wheel studs because of this).
Install cooling ducts for the front
rotors. Install a scoop under the front
valence and run a 2.5 in. flexible
rubber hose to inside the front wheel. I
just tie-wrap the hose to the lower
control arm and stick it inside the
wheel as far in as it will go. You
absolutely MUST get some cooling air up
in there. It's not necessary to
run the duct directly to the calipers,
just in the vicinity. Be careful that
the hose doesn't interfere with the
boot over the halfshafts, or you might
cut the boot. You can adapt a wide
variety of cheap scoops from gadgets found
at Menards -- I've used laundry
dryer ducts, plumbing apparatus and gutter
downpipes. The scoop mounts over
or inside the 4 x 8 in. rectangular openings
on both sides of the air dam
(crawl under there -- you'll see it) and the
hose routes from there to the
wheel openings.
Remove the dust
shields/backing plates from the front rotors. This will
allow cooling air to
get in there.You may also want to remove the inner
front fender well (behind
the intercoolers) to allow better air flow.
Bed the pads and season the
rotors. Read the instructions that come with
the pads, because they differ.
Seasoning the rotor means impregnating it
with whatever materials are in the
pad, such as carbon kevlar. Bedding in
the pads means heat-cycling them one
time. You accomplish both by first
driving the car around normally for a day
or two to season the rotor, then
taking the car out for a little drive
in the countryside. Execute some
hard stops from 80 to 20 about four or five
times. If you do it at night,
you oughta see the rotors glowing red (mine
caught fire once). Then, just
amble on home slowly and safely, avoid using
the brakes, put it in your
garage, and don't drive it for 24 hours. The
brakes will be ready to rumble
the next day, dude.
On track: Ask your
instructor to teach you how to brake properly. Tell him
your car EATS brakes.
Tell him you want to learn proper brake management,
so the pads will last the
entire weekend. My idea of brake management is to
never apply the brakes over
100 mph. Instead, I would coast down to 100,
then apply the brakes. This
doesn't get you the fastest possible lap time,
but it saves the brakes. (It
also pisses off the 911 or M3 you just passed,
because they want to go much
deeper before braking, but them's the breaks).
Remember this: Your car is
capable of hitting 130+ on a track, but you have
to stop it from that speed.
If you bang on the brakes at such a speed, it
will just wear the pads all
that much faster. Also, if you are running
slotted or drilled rotors, and
they happen to break at the hub at 130+, the
loose rotor can slice off your
caliper. When running slotted or drilled
rotors, always know where the runoff
areas are, because you may need them
if (sorry, WHEN) the rotor breaks. Been
there, done that.
Proper braking requires a hard, steady application of
the brakes. You don't
BANG them on, and you don't slowly increase pressure
like you do on the
street. You get on the brakes hard and quickly get off.
Your instructor
will show you.
In the absence of an instructor, try
this: As you approach a turn, lift the
throttle, count 1-2, firmly
apply the brakes as hard as you can until you
feel the ABS (but don't BANG
them), lift off the brakes, and turn into the
corner. This is not the fastest
method, but it is effective and leads to
longer brake life because you are on
the brakes for the shortest amount of
time.
When you complete a
session, cool the brakes off with a cooldown lap or by
driving around the
paddock area for a few minutes. When you park, DO NOT
APPLY THE BRAKES. This
will put white-hot pads up against a red-hot rotor,
where they will attempt
to melt into each other. Instead, coast up to your
parking slot, or turn off
the key whilst in gear to stop it. Hang around
the car for about five
minutes, and then roll it forward a half turn of the
wheel. This will put the
pads over a different spot on the rotor. It is
important to do this, because
otherwise you may warp a rotor from the
intense temperatures (see below). If
you are running a stock system the
wheels will be so hot you will not be able
to go near them for about 15
minutes.
Check your pad depth
periodically -- like before every other session on
Saturday, and before every
session on Sunday. You will be amazed how fast
the pad depth goes
down. Take a flashlight with you so you can see the
inside pads.
For some strange reason, the inner pads go first, and they are
the ones that
are the toughest to see. While you are checking the pad
depth, look to see if
the pads are turning white. If you have Porterfields,
it means you are
reaching temperatures of 1400F, and the pads are being
eaten away very, very
fast. I went through a set of R4 pads in ONE DAY at
Road America, and had to
change them in the parking lot of the hotel by
flashlight. Turns out one of
my brake ducts had ripped off.
When you get home after an event, remove
the front rotors and take them to
your friendly brake shop for a cleanup
turn. My shop charges $5 each for
this. The cleanup turn takes off all the
gouges left by the pads, and all
the pad material that's been embedded. Bring
the rotors home, and
re-install the stock street pads. If there is anything
left of the race
pads, put them in a box as spares for the next event.
Prior to your next event, install a new set of race pads on the fronts.
You
may never need to replace the rears -- they do hardly any work, and
wear
very little. Bleed the front calipers. The fluid that comes out will
be
nasty looking, because you cooked it the last time out.
Learn to
do your own brake work -- it will save you a fortune, and you'll
be into your
brakes trackside for much of the event anyway, so better learn
now.
Fortunately, it's easy -- very dirty, but easy.
Remember that your car
is faster than just about anything out there. Brakes
are our weakest point,
but you can make the pads last an entire weekend by
just exercising good
brake management. Good luck.
Rich/old poop/94
VR4
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:53:26 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
>
>I know there
were other posts on this, but Trust us, we listen when Rich
speaks about what
works and doesn't. I personally have watched him (Rich)
try almost everything
to make the stock brakes work better on his car. You
might answer many
questions when you read some of his very detailed posts
in the
archives.
>
Gee thanks, Brad. (blush). I didn't know anybody was
listening.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/all embarrased now
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Jun 2000 01:30:26 -0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: OT: window tinting
For clarification - is this for the side
windows only, sides and rear window
only, rear only, etc. I know the
law won't allow a certain % on the
windshield but it would be nice to know if
you are wanting all-around
tinting or just the rear.
- --Darren
dschilberg@pobox.com <
mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com>
'95 VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dave Monarchi [
mailto:monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU]
Sent:
Tuesday, June 13, 2000 19:52
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: OT: window tinting
Sorry for the off topic post.. I'm
looking a good window tint shop that
will do 20-25% metallized (sp?)
tint.. I live in Boulder Colorado, and
all the shops I've been to here
won't do "over" 35% tint since that's
the legal limit.. I'm thinking
about taking a road trip to visit family
in Tucson Arizona, and was
wondering if the law is less strict down there
since it's so much
hotter.. any info would be greatly appreciated..
btw, no flames
please.. I don't need any lecture about legality or
aesthetic
quality.. it's what I want..
thanks!
oh yeah, please reply
privately!
Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4
=
= 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =
= There is no spoon..
=
=======================
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:26:43 -0700
From: "Jose Soriano" <
amahoser@linkline.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Need instructions for gutting pre-cats / ATR Downpipe
Check
out my website under Tips. I have a few notes on nmy experiences
gutting the
precats.
Jose Soriano
visit my Stealth site at
www.3si.org/amahoserSubject:
Team3S: Need instructions for gutting pre-cats / ATR Downpipe
>
Does anyone have these instructions handy?
>
> Does anyone use the
ATR downpipe? - Will I notice a large improvement with
> this (and gutted
cats) - over our stock downpipe? - or should I save my
> money and only
gut the pre-cats?
>
> Thanks.
>
Eddie
***Info:
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End
of team3s V1 #169
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