team3s
Tuesday, June 13
2000
Volume 01 : Number
168
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:51:20 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
At 06:16 PM 6/12/00 -0400,
Eddie wrote:
>Hello,
> I am looking for a place to
order cross-drilled / slotted rotors. - I
>recall hearing that
speedtoys.com carried them, but their web page seems to
>be
down.
DO NOT buy drilled or slotted rotors if you plan to do anything
more than
cruise the boulevard and show off how pretty they are. Under hard
braking,
slotted rotors break in half at the hub (I know, I've broken
two
PowerSlots) and drilled rotors crack at the holes. This is true of
Stillen
and other name brand drilled rotors (rumor has it they all come from
the
same place anyway).
>
> If anyone has any
recommendations (rather it be store, brand of rotor,
>brand of brake PAD,
etc.) It would be great.
You didn't say what you need them for.
If just a replacement for warped stock rotors, replace with stock.
Our
brakes are perfectly good for most applications.
For autocrossing,
run stock rotors with street/performance pads
(Porterfield R4S is
good).
For open track/hot lapping, you probably should upgrade to wheels
and
bigger front calipers from a 94. With 94+ calipers installed, a
good
solution is Porterfield cryogenically treated rotors (they don't warp)
and
Porterfield R4 race pads for events, stock pads for the street.
(
www.porterfieldbrakes.com). Remove
the backing plate and run air ducts to
keep the rotors cool. This will work
until you start braking so hard you
turn the pads white, which means you are
hitting 1400 F and wearing out
your pads in a single day of racing. At those
temperatures, the pads wear
as if they were being run over a cheese grater.
You must learn how to
replace pads trackside if you run a VR4.
If you
absolutely, positively MUST have drilled rotors, Porterfield will
drill 'em
for you, but they don't recommend it.
The ultimate solution for road
racing is a set of Porsche Turbo Big Red
calipers and Pagid Orange or Black
race pads, available from Brad Bedell
(
bbedell@amiltx.com), plus air ducts, water
injection, and NASCAR truck air
blowers. I'm still running the Porterfield
rotors with this setup, but Brad
is developing a bigger, two-piece KVR rotor
in case we need even more
braking. If you are upgrading from a 92, it might
be easier and less
expensive to just make the jump to Big Reds immediately
because -- as I
understand it -- you can keep your old 92 wheels. Brad can
advise better
than I.
Rich/old poop/94
VR4
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:45:02 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
95 VR4 w/removable sunroof - lowering springs options?
>
> RSRs
are not imported into the USA anymore. So unless you import them
>
yourself, you can't get them.
>
> Now onto your real problem.
From everything I've read in the past this is
> the situation as I see
it..... On the 95 VR4 (not Stealth), with the manual
> sunroof and
ECS, there is an extra bracket near the rear springs. This
>
bracket is there to add more rigidity to the frame. Probably because the
> sunroof makes the car less rigid and the combination of stiffness of
ECS
I have a 93 Stealth TT with a factory sunroof --- There is [ was
in my case,
I removed it to install a rear strut bar ] an additional bracket
on top of the
strut tower on the inside of the car, and it's only purpose is
to provide a place
to store the sunroof when removed form the car.
There
is a bracket welded to the top of each tower and on top of that is a
holder
for the front of the sunroof, the back is held by toggles on the trunk
liner.
I see absolutely no reason why it would effect the
springs.
Jim
Berry
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:49:04 EDT
From:
Klusmanp@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S: New
refrigerant - direct replacement for R-12
In a message dated 00-06-12
21:50:03 EDT, you write:
<< For the record ... the new refrigerant
is known as R-134a .... and while
it technically will work in an R-12
system the cooling will be
sub-standard unless you also replace the
compressor and a few other
mechanical parts as the R-134a is
substantially less efficient than R-12
and requires a larger compressor
to cool effectively. >>
I believe there is also an issue with
the new R-134a eating the seals that
were used in old R-12 systems. The
R-134a will work sub-standard in an old
system for awhile until the seals
are destroyed, then you've got to do a
complete rebuild of your A/C
system.
This is another reason why it is not a good idea to simply
evacuate the old
R-12 and add R-134a.
I checked into having my system
converted to R-134a. To do it properly,
you've got to replace seals in the
entire system. This means alot of labor,
including pulling the dash apart,
and amounts to a cost of... I don't
exactly
remember.... I think it was $1500? ...perhaps
$2000?
I do remember that filling up with R-12 was still a much cheaper
option as of
about 6 months ago.
Given the rising cost of R-12 and
the fantastic cost of doing the R-134a
conversion properly, any direct R-12
substitute is certainly attractive.
(well, so is taking the dead A/C system
out to save weight!)
I do agree that any new refrigerant should be
investigated before using. I've
got an old beater Ford Bronco that just
sprung a leak in the A/C system and
leaked all its R-12. I might repair the
A/C system and recharge with this new
R-12 substitute.
Stay
tuned.
Paul Klusman
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:01:18 +1200
From:
Ryan.Judd@axon.co.nzSubject: RE:
Team3S: New refrigerant - direct replacement for R-12
but the standard
"off the shelf" upgrade will set you back only around $200.
(this is
fittings, gas, R/D and labour) or if you have the right tools you
can do it
yourself for about $75.
-
-----OriginalMessage-----
From:
Klusmanp@aol.com [
mailto:Klusmanp@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 13
June 2000 2:49
To:
wizards@mhtc.net;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: New refrigerant - direct replacement for R-12
In a
message dated 00-06-12 21:50:03 EDT, you write:
<< For the record
... the new refrigerant is known as R-134a .... and while
it
technically will work in an R-12 system the cooling will
be
sub-standard unless you also replace the compressor and a few
other
mechanical parts as the R-134a is substantially less efficient
than R-12
and requires a larger compressor to cool effectively.
>>
I believe there is also an issue with the new R-134a eating
the seals that
were used in old R-12 systems. The R-134a will work
sub-standard in an old
system for awhile until the seals are destroyed, then
you've got to do a
complete rebuild of your A/C system.
This is
another reason why it is not a good idea to simply evacuate the old
R-12 and
add R-134a.
I checked into having my system converted to R-134a. To do it
properly,
you've got to replace seals in the entire system. This means alot
of labor,
including pulling the dash apart, and amounts to a cost
of... I don't
exactly remember....
I think it was $1500? ...perhaps $2000?
I do remember that
filling up with R-12 was still a much cheaper option as
of
about 6 months
ago.
Given the rising cost of R-12 and the fantastic cost of doing the
R-134a
conversion properly, any direct R-12 substitute is certainly
attractive.
(well, so is taking the dead A/C system out to save
weight!)
I do agree that any new refrigerant should be investigated
before using.
I've
got an old beater Ford Bronco that just sprung a leak
in the A/C system and
leaked all its R-12. I might repair the A/C system and
recharge with this
new
R-12 substitute.
Stay tuned.
Paul
Klusman
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:15:14 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
The
bbedell@amiltx.com WILL NOT WORK!! I
am no longer employed there.
Please forward all brake correspondence
to me at the below address.
bbedell@austin.rr.comThanks.
Brad
Check
out my home page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Merritt
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 6:51 PM
To: Eddie; 'Team3S
List'
Subject: Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
At 06:16
PM 6/12/00 -0400, Eddie wrote:
>Hello,
> I am
looking for a place to order cross-drilled / slotted rotors. - I
>recall
hearing that speedtoys.com carried them, but their web page seems to
>be
down.
DO NOT buy drilled or slotted rotors if you plan to do anything
more than
cruise the boulevard and show off how pretty they are. Under hard
braking,
slotted rotors break in half at the hub (I know, I've broken
two
PowerSlots) and drilled rotors crack at the holes. This is true of
Stillen
and other name brand drilled rotors (rumor has it they all come from
the
same place anyway).
>
> If anyone has any
recommendations (rather it be store, brand of rotor,
>brand of brake PAD,
etc.) It would be great.
You didn't say what you need them for.
If
just a replacement for warped stock rotors, replace with stock. Our
brakes
are perfectly good for most applications.
For autocrossing, run stock
rotors with street/performance pads
(Porterfield R4S is good).
For
open track/hot lapping, you probably should upgrade to wheels and
bigger
front calipers from a 94. With 94+ calipers installed, a good
solution is
Porterfield cryogenically treated rotors (they don't warp) and
Porterfield R4
race pads for events, stock pads for the street.
(
www.porterfieldbrakes.com). Remove
the backing plate and run air ducts to
keep the rotors cool. This will work
until you start braking so hard you
turn the pads white, which means you are
hitting 1400 F and wearing out
your pads in a single day of racing. At those
temperatures, the pads wear
as if they were being run over a cheese grater.
You must learn how to
replace pads trackside if you run a VR4.
If you
absolutely, positively MUST have drilled rotors, Porterfield will
drill 'em
for you, but they don't recommend it.
The ultimate solution for road
racing is a set of Porsche Turbo Big Red
calipers and Pagid Orange or Black
race pads, available from Brad Bedell
(
bbedell@amiltx.com), plus air ducts, water
injection, and NASCAR truck air
blowers. I'm still running the Porterfield
rotors with this setup, but Brad
is developing a bigger, two-piece KVR rotor
in case we need even more
braking. If you are upgrading from a 92, it might
be easier and less
expensive to just make the jump to Big Reds immediately
because -- as I
understand it -- you can keep your old 92 wheels. Brad can
advise better
than I.
Rich/old poop/94
VR4
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:19:41 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 95 VR4 w/removable sunroof - lowering springs options?
Hey
Jim,
I know what your talking about the brackets that hold the sunroof in
place,
in your hatchback. That is not the 'bracket' I'm talking
about. The
brackets that I'm talking about would be in the wheel well
area and are
there to make the car more rigid. Not to hold the sunroof
in place. Maybe
"bracket" isn't the right term. Maybe I should
of called it a support
brace??
later,
Curt
CarParts page at:
http://www.mn3s.org/car-parts.html>From:
"Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
>To: "Curt
Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>, <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Subject:
Re: Team3S: 95 VR4 w/removable sunroof - lowering springs options?
>Date:
Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:45:02 -0700
>
>
>
>I have a 93
Stealth TT with a factory sunroof --- There is [ was in my
>case,
>I removed it to install a rear strut bar ] an additional
bracket on top of
>the
>strut tower on the inside of the car, and
it's only purpose is to provide a
>place
>to store the sunroof when
removed form the car.
>There is a bracket welded to the top of each
tower and on top of that is a
>holder
>for the front of the
sunroof, the back is held by toggles on the trunk
>liner.
>I see
absolutely no reason why it would effect the
springs.
>
> Jim
Berry
>
________________________________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:17:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Wise <
diranged@south-park.cc>
Subject:
Team3S: New Steering Wheel?
My current steering wheel looks pretty bad..
Its leather is ripped in many
places and it could just be replaced. Also
since I have replaced the
stereo, the stereo controls are useless too. My
question is if I replace
the steering wheel, what happens to my airbag?
Safety is an important
issue to me and I would not like to loose the air bag.
Are there any
steering wheel manufacturers who make OEM fitting wheels?
Thanks
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 07:08:32 -0400
From: "Michael S. Steinebach" <
mikala.s@home.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: New Steering Wheel?
I am interested in this also. Please let us
know if someone out there has
done this.
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Matt Wise
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 4:17 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: New Steering Wheel?
My current steering wheel looks pretty
bad.. Its leather is ripped in many
places and it could just be replaced.
Also since I have replaced the
stereo, the stereo controls are useless too.
My question is if I replace
the steering wheel, what happens to my airbag?
Safety is an important
issue to me and I would not like to loose the air bag.
Are there any
steering wheel manufacturers who make OEM fitting wheels?
Thanks
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 07:59:23 -0400
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: New Steering Wheel?
And the radio controls on mine are well
used (words are sometimes worn away
on some buttons). Are there
replacements for these buttons anywhere?
Darren
dschilberg@pobox.com-
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael S. Steinebach [
mailto:mikala.s@home.com]
Sent: Tuesday,
June 13, 2000 7:09 AM
To: Matt Wise;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: New Steering Wheel?
I am interested in this also. Please let
us know if someone out there has
done this.
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Matt Wise
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 4:17 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: New Steering Wheel?
My current steering wheel looks pretty
bad.. Its leather is ripped in many
places and it could just be replaced.
Also since I have replaced the
stereo, the stereo controls are useless too.
My question is if I replace
the steering wheel, what happens to my airbag?
Safety is an important
issue to me and I would not like to loose the air bag.
Are there any
steering wheel manufacturers who make OEM fitting wheels?
Thanks
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:21:12 -0400
From: Brian Geisel <
brian.geisel@compaq.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
Rich,
I'm curious about your comments about slotted and drilled rotors...
I
can't
personally speak for slotted, but as for cross drilled, mine
definitely hold up
much better just under hard street driving. My
stock rotors just couldn't
handle the heat or gas buildup I guess and got
pretty sloppy after some
serious braking.
As for break-down of the
rotors, Matt (from dynamic racing) ran his from
180-0mph three times in a row
to be sure the rotors didn't crack. The
stillen cross drilled he had
were red hot after that, but didn't crack.
After reading several posts
about these rotors that were so much better
than cross-drilled I figured I'd
hit their site. I was a little confused about
not cross-drilling at
that point. Here's a clip from their site:
"Cross drilling of
Rotors is designed for use on high Performance
vehicles. They are also
extremely effective for practical street
applications. Cross Drilling assists
cooling of rotor and also lets gas
build-up between pad and Rotor escape.
Using these Rotors may
actually enhance braking in wet conditions.
"
It sounds like they're totaly suggesting cross drilling for hard
driving.
I'm aware that it eats pads moreso than flat rotors, but if
stopping
is what you're going for, cross drilled sure seems like the way to
go.
Am I missing something on their site that I should be
reading?
Thanx,
Brian
Merritt wrote:
> At 06:16
PM 6/12/00 -0400, Eddie wrote:
> >Hello,
> >
I am looking for a place to order cross-drilled / slotted rotors. - I
>
>recall hearing that speedtoys.com carried them, but their web page seems
to
> >be down.
>
> DO NOT buy drilled or slotted rotors if
you plan to do anything more than
> cruise the boulevard and show off how
pretty they are. Under hard braking,
> slotted rotors break in half at the
hub (I know, I've broken two
> PowerSlots) and drilled rotors crack at the
holes. This is true of Stillen
> and other name brand drilled rotors
(rumor has it they all come from the
> same place anyway).
>
>
> > If anyone has any recommendations (rather it
be store, brand of rotor,
> >brand of brake PAD, etc.) It would be
great.
>
> You didn't say what you need them for.
>
> If
just a replacement for warped stock rotors, replace with stock. Our
>
brakes are perfectly good for most applications.
>
> For
autocrossing, run stock rotors with street/performance pads
> (Porterfield
R4S is good).
>
> For open track/hot lapping, you probably should
upgrade to wheels and
> bigger front calipers from a 94. With 94+ calipers
installed, a good
> solution is Porterfield cryogenically treated rotors
(they don't warp) and
> Porterfield R4 race pads for events, stock pads
for the street.
> (
www.porterfieldbrakes.com). Remove
the backing plate and run air ducts to
> keep the rotors cool. This will
work until you start braking so hard you
> turn the pads white, which
means you are hitting 1400 F and wearing out
> your pads in a single day
of racing. At those temperatures, the pads wear
> as if they were being
run over a cheese grater. You must learn how to
> replace pads trackside
if you run a VR4.
>
> If you absolutely, positively MUST have
drilled rotors, Porterfield will
> drill 'em for you, but they don't
recommend it.
>
> The ultimate solution for road racing is a set of
Porsche Turbo Big Red
> calipers and Pagid Orange or Black race pads,
available from Brad Bedell
> (
bbedell@amiltx.com), plus air ducts, water
injection, and NASCAR truck air
> blowers. I'm still running the
Porterfield rotors with this setup, but Brad
> is developing a bigger,
two-piece KVR rotor in case we need even more
> braking. If you are
upgrading from a 92, it might be easier and less
> expensive to just make
the jump to Big Reds immediately because -- as I
> understand it -- you
can keep your old 92 wheels. Brad can advise better
> than
I.
>
> Rich/old poop/94 VR4
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue Jun 13 14:21:38 2000
From:
TurboDrvn@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
Just for the record........
I've
had my KVR cross-drilled rotors for about 45,000 miles.......NO PROBLEMS!!
they are great!! I never had to cut/turn them either. I use the KVR
carbon Fiber pads. I drag race all the time, was a daily driver for those
45,000 miles in rain, snow, salt and Hot/dry days of The Chicagoland
Metropolitan areas.
I admit, I have never Road raced or Autocrossed, so
I'm not sure how confident I would be with these KVR cross drills........maybe
one day, I'll find out???
Just thought I'd share my facts with you
all.
Good luck to all and Happy Racing!!
SSSSSSSSSS (Hopefully,
the sound of my turbos) SSSSSSee ya at the races!!!
Ahmed
"AL-Crazy" - '92 VR4 (STill NO BOOST!)
In a message dated Tue, 13
Jun 2000 1:23:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Brian Geisel <
brian.geisel@compaq.com>
writes:
<< Rich,
I'm curious about your
comments about slotted and drilled rotors... I
can't
personally
speak for slotted, but as for cross drilled, mine definitely hold up
much
better just under hard street driving. My stock rotors just
couldn't
handle the heat or gas buildup I guess and got pretty sloppy after
some
serious braking.
As for break-down of the rotors, Matt (from
dynamic racing) ran his from
180-0mph three times in a row to be sure the
rotors didn't crack. The
stillen cross drilled he had were red hot
after that, but didn't crack.
After reading several posts about these
rotors that were so much better
than cross-drilled I figured I'd hit their
site. I was a little confused about
not cross-drilling at that
point. Here's a clip from their site:
"Cross drilling of Rotors is
designed for use on high Performance
vehicles. They are also extremely
effective for practical street
applications. Cross Drilling assists cooling
of rotor and also lets gas
build-up between pad and Rotor escape. Using these
Rotors may
actually enhance braking in wet conditions. "
It sounds
like they're totaly suggesting cross drilling for hard driving.
I'm aware
that it eats pads moreso than flat rotors, but if stopping
is what you're
going for, cross drilled sure seems like the way to go.
Am I missing
something on their site that I should be
reading?
Thanx,
Brian
Merritt wrote:
> At 06:16
PM 6/12/00 -0400, Eddie wrote:
> >Hello,
> >
I am looking for a place to order cross-drilled / slotted rotors. - I
>
>recall hearing that speedtoys.com carried them, but their web page seems
to
> >be down.
>
> DO NOT buy drilled or slotted rotors if
you plan to do anything more than
> cruise the boulevard and show off how
pretty they are. Under hard braking,
> slotted rotors break in half at the
hub (I know, I've broken two
> PowerSlots) and drilled rotors crack at the
holes. This is true of Stillen
> and other name brand drilled rotors
(rumor has it they all come from the
> same place anyway).
>
>
> > If anyone has any recommendations (rather it
be store, brand of rotor,
> >brand of brake PAD, etc.) It would be
great.
>
> You didn't say what you need them for.
>
> If
just a replacement for warped stock rotors, replace with stock. Our
>
brakes are perfectly good for most applications.
>
> For
autocrossing, run stock rotors with street/performance pads
> (Porterfield
R4S is good).
>
> For open track/hot lapping, you probably should
upgrade to wheels and
> bigger front calipers from a 94. With 94+ calipers
installed, a good
> solution is Porterfield cryogenically treated rotors
(they don't warp) and
> Porterfield R4 race pads for events, stock pads
for the street.
> (
www.porterfieldbrakes.com). Remove
the backing plate and run air ducts to
> keep the rotors cool. This will
work until you start braking so hard you
> turn the pads white, which
means you are hitting 1400 F and wearing out
> your pads in a single day
of racing. At those temperatures, the pads wear
> as if they were being
run over a cheese grater. You must learn how to
> replace pads trackside
if you run a VR4.
>
> If you absolutely, positively MUST have
drilled rotors, Porterfield will
> drill 'em for you, but they don't
recommend it.
>
> The ultimate solution for road racing is a set of
Porsche Turbo Big Red
> calipers and Pagid Orange or Black race pads,
available from Brad Bedell
> (
bbedell@amiltx.com), plus air ducts, water
injection, and NASCAR truck air
> blowers. I'm still running the
Porterfield rotors with this setup, but Brad
> is developing a bigger,
two-piece KVR rotor in case we need even more
> braking. If you are
upgrading from a 92, it might be easier and less
> expensive to just make
the jump to Big Reds immediately because -- as I
> understand it -- you
can keep your old 92 wheels. Brad can advise better
> than
I.
>
> Rich/old poop/94 VR4
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:36:52 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
>I'm curious about your
comments about slotted and drilled rotors... I
>can't personally
speak for slotted, but as for cross drilled, mine
definitely hold
up
>much better just under hard street driving. My stock rotors just
couldn't
>handle the heat or gas buildup I guess and got pretty sloppy
after some
>serious braking. As for break-down of the rotors, Matt (from
dynamic
racing) ran his from
>180-0mph three times in a row to be sure
the rotors didn't crack. The
>stillen cross drilled he had were red
hot after that, but didn't crack.
I'm not sure how long it takes to crack
drilled rotors. I've seen plenty of
cracks on other cars (5.0 Mustangs,
mostly), and heard stories here on the
net. Maybe it's the heavier cars that
crack them the most. I know that
Porterfield advises against it. Maybe
it has something to do with the
stresses we put on the rotors under hard
braking and 1G turns on road
courses.
As for your stock brakes not
handling the heat or gas buildup....I think if
you took a driving course and
learned how to brake properly, you would not
have a problem with warped
rotors. The worst thing you can do to brakes is
stop gradually, as in
s-l-o-w-l-y increasing brake pressure as you approach
a stop sign, so as not
to upset your passengers. This puts more heat into
the brakes than a quick
stop does.
Our cars have superb brakes stock -- but they just can't stop
from high
speeds too many times before the brakes get
hot.
>
>After reading several posts about these rotors that were
so much better
>than cross-drilled I figured I'd hit their site. I
was a little confused
about
>not cross-drilling at that point.
Here's a clip from their site:
>"Cross drilling of Rotors is designed for
use on high Performance
>vehicles. They are also extremely effective for
practical street
>applications. Cross Drilling assists cooling of rotor
and also lets gas
>build-up between pad and Rotor escape. Using these
Rotors may
>actually enhance braking in wet conditions. "
Pure
marketing BS. What this has to do with wet braking escapes me.
Besides,
we already have vented rotors, which accomplishes the same
thing.
>
>It sounds like they're totaly suggesting cross drilling
for hard driving.
>I'm aware that it eats pads moreso than flat rotors,
but if stopping
>is what you're going for, cross drilled sure seems like
the way to go.
Not for me.
>Am I missing something on their
site that I should be reading?
No, because there's nothing bad on the
site. They certainly will not
mention anything about how the rotors crack so
easily that few last long
enough to be turned. I turn my Porterfields after
EVERY event (Just a
cleanup turn, to scrape off all the pad residue and
gouges the pad made in
the rotor surface), which shows how long they last.
I've turned my stock
rotors about three times and the Porterfields twice, and
they still look
good.
I stick to my guns: If you want a better rotor,
the best solution is a
Porterfield cryogenically treated stock rotor. The
next best is another
stock rotor.>
Rich/old poop/94
VR4
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:20:08 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
Hmmmmmm..... Tell
that to Oskar..... Check out these pics of Oskar's
Stillen
cross-drilled rotors at Brainard International Raceway last year:
http://mn3s.org/brainard/brainard1.jpghttp://mn3s.org/brainard/brainard2.jpghttp://mn3s.org/brainard/brainard3.jpgThose
Stillen Metal Matrix brake pads turned into cookie crums too. ;)
Your taking a big gamble with slotted or cross drilled rotors on a road
course. They are probably just fine for Auto-x and drag racing, but
road
courses put a lot more stress on them.
later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org>From:
Brian Geisel <
brian.geisel@compaq.com>
>"Cross
drilling of Rotors is designed for use on high Performance
>vehicles. They
are also extremely effective for practical street
>applications. Cross
Drilling assists cooling of rotor and also lets gas
>build-up between pad
and Rotor escape. Using these Rotors may
>actually enhance braking in wet
conditions.
"
>
________________________________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Jun 2000 07:33:00 +1200
From:
Ryan.Judd@axon.co.nzSubject: RE:
Team3S: New Steering Wheel?
Momo used to sell a couple of airbag wheels,.
not sure if they still do or
not.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Schilberg, Darren [
mailto:DSchilberg@freemarkets.com]
Sent:
Tuesday, 13 June 2000 11:59
To: 'Michael S. Steinebach'; Matt Wise;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: New Steering Wheel?
And the radio controls on mine are
well used (words are sometimes worn away
on some buttons). Are there
replacements for these buttons anywhere?
Darren
dschilberg@pobox.com-
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael S. Steinebach [
mailto:mikala.s@home.com]
Sent: Tuesday,
June 13, 2000 7:09 AM
To: Matt Wise;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: New Steering Wheel?
I am interested in this also. Please let
us know if someone out there has
done this.
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Matt Wise
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 4:17 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: New Steering Wheel?
My current steering wheel looks pretty
bad.. Its leather is ripped in many
places and it could just be replaced.
Also since I have replaced the
stereo, the stereo controls are useless too.
My question is if I replace
the steering wheel, what happens to my airbag?
Safety is an important
issue to me and I would not like to loose the air bag.
Are there any
steering wheel manufacturers who make OEM fitting wheels?
Thanks
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:48:55 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
At 02:20 PM 6/13/00 CDT,
Curt Gendron wrote:
>Hmmmmmm..... Tell that to Oskar.....
Check out these pics of Oskar's
>Stillen cross-drilled rotors at Brainard
International Raceway last year:
>
>
http://mn3s.org/brainard/brainard1.jpg>
http://mn3s.org/brainard/brainard2.jpg>
http://mn3s.org/brainard/brainard3.jpg>
As
I mentioned to the list when I saw these shocking photos last year, this
is
EXACTLY what happened to my PowerSlot slotted rotors. When mine broke
apart
like this, I called the PowerSlot people, who insisted that this
could not
possibly happen because it's a one-piece casting (as I was
holding the two
pieces in my hands!).
This leads me to believe that PowerSlot and Stillen
and all the rest
(except Porterfield) buy their rotors from the same sleazy
supplier
(Porterfield, of course, buys stock Mitsu rotors and treats them). I
doubt
seriously if Stillen and PowerSlot have a forging and heat
treating
facility on their premises, so they must buy these from somewhere.
This reminds me of when I broke the first rotor at Topeka, and lamented
to
all who would listen that I had broken a BREMBO rotor (because that's
what
the dealer had implied). One grizzled veteran racer said, "Nah, them
ain't
Brembos. Look on the back for a Brembo stamp. Can't find one? Thought
so.
Brembos are the best, and they don't break."
KVR probably makes
their own or buys theirs from Brembo in Italy.
It may very well be true
that KVR and Brembos don't crack or break like
Stillens or PowerSlots, but
they also cost 2-3 times as much. Two-piece KVR
rotors are $800 a set, for
example.
Let me amend my cautionary note to say: Don't buy drilled or
slotted rotors
from any AMERICAN suppliers unless you KNOW they come from
Brembo or KVR.
The biggest tipoff, of course, will be the price.
Just
buy Porterfields and stop worrying!
Rich/old poop/94
VR4
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:41:59 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
> This leads me to
believe that PowerSlot and Stillen and all the rest
> (except Porterfield)
buy their rotors from the same sleazy supplier
> (Porterfield, of course,
buys stock Mitsu rotors and treats them). I doubt
> seriously if Stillen
and PowerSlot have a forging and heat treating
> facility on their
premises, so they must buy these from somewhere.
When I bought my
Porterfield rotors last December, I asked them what blanks they
use.
Their reply was that they use Brembo.
> KVR probably makes their
own or buys theirs from Brembo in Italy.
>
> It may very well be
true that KVR and Brembos don't crack or break like
> Stillens or
PowerSlots, but they also cost 2-3 times as much. Two-piece KVR
> rotors
are $800 a set, for example.
My KVR crossdrilled 1-piece rotors
cracked. They lasted nine months of street
driving with one or two hard
110mph-60mph stops per week and 36 minutes of
driving school. Before
the school, most holes had lots of stress cracks. After
the school, one
outermost hole cracked all the way through one side and all the
way to the
outside edge.
> Just buy Porterfields and stop worrying!
I
second that!
- --
Forget world peace -- visualize using your turn
signal!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San
Diego
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:43:00 -0400
From: "WALTER D. BEST" <
WDBO39@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Where to buy brake rotors / pads?
I have to agree with Brain, I have had
the Power Stop cross drill rotors for
over two years and drove a Friday at
track, (Summit Point Raceway) and I
have no sign of cracking. Planning
on running them again this year.
I did go through a set of pads, but they
were the cheap pads, performance
friction or something like that. I now
have Porterfield R4S's and I am
planning on replacing the current set before
I go to the track, with a new
set of R4S's (on the fronts only). I'll
still take the current set in case
the new set retires early.
Of the
folks condemning the drilled rotors how many of you have had a set
that did
crack, just wondering?
As an SCCA Nationally Licensed Tech Inspector and I
haven't seen a GT-1 or
Trans AM car that didn't have crossed drilled rotors
and they don't seem to
have problems.
Could it be if folks are having
problems, it's due to not having sufficient
ducting? I don't have the
stock wheels maybe that helps.
Dave Best
3Si #62
http://ifrag.ncsa.uiuc.edu/best/-
----- Original Message -----
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To:
Brian Geisel <
brian.geisel@compaq.com>
Cc:
Eddie <
stealth3@superservers.net>;
'Team3S List'
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, June 13, 2000 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Where to buy brake rotors
/ pads?
>
> >I'm curious about your comments about
slotted and drilled rotors... I
> >can't personally speak for
slotted, but as for cross drilled, mine
> definitely hold up
>
>much better just under hard street driving. My stock rotors
just
couldn't
> >handle the heat or gas buildup I guess and got
pretty sloppy after some
> >serious braking. As for break-down of the
rotors, Matt (from dynamic
> racing) ran his from
> >180-0mph
three times in a row to be sure the rotors didn't crack. The
>
>stillen cross drilled he had were red hot after that, but didn't
crack.
>
> I'm not sure how long it takes to crack drilled rotors.
I've seen plenty
of
> cracks on other cars (5.0 Mustangs, mostly), and
heard stories here on the
> net. Maybe it's the heavier cars that crack
them the most. I know that
> Porterfield advises against it. Maybe
it has something to do with the
> stresses we put on the rotors under hard
braking and 1G turns on road
> courses.
>
> As for your stock
brakes not handling the heat or gas buildup....I think
if
> you took a
driving course and learned how to brake properly, you would not
> have a
problem with warped rotors. The worst thing you can do to brakes is
> stop
gradually, as in s-l-o-w-l-y increasing brake pressure as
you
approach
> a stop sign, so as not to upset your passengers. This
puts more heat into
> the brakes than a quick stop does.
>
>
Our cars have superb brakes stock -- but they just can't stop from high
>
speeds too many times before the brakes get hot.
>
> >
>
>After reading several posts about these rotors that were so much
better
> >than cross-drilled I figured I'd hit their site. I was
a little confused
> about
> >not cross-drilling at that
point. Here's a clip from their site:
> >"Cross drilling of
Rotors is designed for use on high Performance
> >vehicles. They are
also extremely effective for practical street
> >applications. Cross
Drilling assists cooling of rotor and also lets gas
> >build-up between
pad and Rotor escape. Using these Rotors may
> >actually enhance
braking in wet conditions. "
>
> Pure marketing BS. What this has to
do with wet braking escapes me.
>
> Besides, we already have vented
rotors, which accomplishes the same thing.
> >
> >It sounds
like they're totaly suggesting cross drilling for hard driving.
> >I'm
aware that it eats pads moreso than flat rotors, but if stopping
> >is
what you're going for, cross drilled sure seems like the way to
go.
>
> Not for me.
>
> >Am I missing something on
their site that I should be reading?
>
> No, because there's nothing
bad on the site. They certainly will not
> mention anything about how the
rotors crack so easily that few last long
> enough to be turned. I turn my
Porterfields after EVERY event (Just a
> cleanup turn, to scrape off all
the pad residue and gouges the pad made in
> the rotor surface), which
shows how long they last. I've turned my stock
> rotors about three times
and the Porterfields twice, and they still look
> good.
>
> I
stick to my guns: If you want a better rotor, the best solution is a
>
Porterfield cryogenically treated stock rotor. The next best is another
>
stock rotor.>
>
> Rich/old poop/94 VR4
>
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
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------------------------------
End
of team3s V1 #168
*********************
