team3s
Sunday, May 28
2000
Volume 01 : Number
151
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 May 2000 11:05:45 -0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: OMG! STOCK BOV SUCKS!
Guys...please *grin*
What is the
best BOV I can get for a 95 VR4????
You all got my panties in a knot..now
I wanna get one.
'Youve got to work with me here..I need the
INFO...OK!?" *heh*
Will a BOV replace and cap off the inlet to
the intake? etc..etc..
- -----Original Message-----
From: Errin
Humphrey [
mailto:errin@u.washington.edu]
Sent:
Saturday, May 27, 2000 12:17 AM
To: Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: OMG! STOCK
BOV SUCKS!
Matt Jannusch wrote:
> > If you blow hard
enough into the stock air bypass valve "inlet",
> > it ~should~ leak
through. That's how an ABV/BOV works.
>
> It should only open
when there is vacuum on the signal line or a reasonably
high pressure
differential. A small amount of pressure alone should not open
the
valve (certainly not only 2-3 psi!). My Blitz valve doesn't work that
way,
nor does the 1G DSM valve, nor does a Greddy valve.
In the case
of the Blitz and the GReddy valve, they have an
adjustable spring, so it will
depend on the spring setting.
> The fact is, the stock BOV leaks at
VERY low pressure differentials and cannot
be relied upon to hold the boost
in. Just from the air going through the
throttle body, it is probably
going to lose a little bit of pressure, possibly
enough to start opening the
valve if it is that sensitive.
Yeah, no one is trying to herald the
design of the stock ABV.
That plastic joke was most likely intended as an
added precaution
by the engineers to limit the boost on our cars. It's
definitely the
first thing that needs to go.
> If the turbos go
through all the effort of pressurizing the air, you might as
well make sure
it all goes into the throttle body! :-)
No argument here! :)
That's why I use the Blitz BOV with the
stock ABV ~completely~ taken out of
the system, since running
the Blitz along with the stock ABV (using the
included Blitz pipe kit)
does not allow one to avoid these problems.
-
--Errin
Seattle
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 May 2000 11:08:44 -0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: slow 1/4 mile time
What was your 60, 330, 660' times?
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
DOWNDRIVEN1@cs.com [
mailto:DOWNDRIVEN1@cs.com]
Sent:
Saturday, May 27, 2000 6:58 AM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: slow 1/4 mile time
I have a 1992 VR-4. I went to the track
yesterday and only pulled a 14.639
1/4 time at 100.89 mph. I have a K&N
FIPK kit, and a Digital APEXi AVC-R
Boost Controller. I looked after racing
at my peak boost and it was 1.30
kg/cm2 which is like 18.4 psi. I should
have had a faster time. Does any one
know why or have any good setup tips
for my boost controller because I can't
figure out some of it's functions.
Also what are some times that the rest of
the club is running so I can have
a basis for comparison.
thank you very much Alex
***Info:
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***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 May 2000 20:08:29 +0200
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: OMG! STOCK BOV SUCKS!
> Does the GReddy BOV piping kit
completely eliminate
> the stock ABV/BPV from the system?
No piping
at all. With the correct flange it simply replaces the stock BPV
that of
course leaks, then it has a hole in it !
> Some people, including
myself and Barry King, don't
> experience any problems with the temporary
rich condition.
> It has been unnoticeable to me, with the way I have
my
> Blitz BOV installed and adjusted.
Yes, sure. For me I had a ll
problem I can think of with the HKS SBOV. Not
performance wise but more due
to the hickup problems when cruising at the
Autobahn. Everytime the cruise
control gave a little more speed when going
up the hill a very annyoing
situation occured. I changed the settings over
half a year and the behaviour
becam better but was never solved. WIth the
Greddy I do not have the problem
anymore.
> Our cars run fully rich all the time anyway just cruising
down
> the street (thanks to closed loop mode), so I don't see a
major
> issue. :)
Well, with the ARC I lean it out a little
when cruising at low rpms. When I
push down the throttle it goes to rich
immediatly :)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 May 2000 20:10:27 +0200
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: OMG! STOCK BOV SUCKS!
> What is the best BOV I can get for a
95 VR4????
Get a 2st gen DSM replacement (Buschur ?) and you're fine with
a cheaper
price. Replaces the factory BPV and vents back to the
intake.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 May 2000 11:16:30 -0700
From:
Anissa.Mohler@netapp.comSubject:
RE: Team3S: slow 1/4 mile time
:-----Original Message-----
:I have a
1992 VR-4. I went to the track yesterday and only pulled a 14.639
:1/4 time
at 100.89 mph. I have a K&N FIPK kit, and a Digital APEXi AVC-R
:Boost
Controller. I looked after racing at my peak boost and it was 1.30
:kg/cm2
which is like 18.4 psi. I should have had a faster time. Does any one
:know
why or have any good setup tips for my boost controller because I can't
:figure out some of it's functions. Also what are some times that the rest
of
:the club is running so I can have a basis for comparison.
#1. I
didn't see you mention anywhere if you have done anything to the
stock
exhaust or cats. The FIPK doesn't help much if your car can't exhale
:)
#2. If you are new to drag racing you could easily lose alot of time
by bogging
your launch. The VR-4 can make some incredible 60ft times, but
with the wrong
launch you can waste most if not all.
#3. Not that I
know anything about your driving skill... but once again, if you
are new to
this YOU could be part of the problem. (Though not ALL of the
problem... )
Two examples: One of our list members has a well modded '93+ VR-4 and
the best
time he could get was a 13.3. At the same event my driver (grin) was
getting
12.7 quarter miles with about equivalent mods in a '92 Stealth TT. So
my driver
drove our friend's car (cause our friend was concerned there was
something wrong
with his car). My driver got a 12.9 in our friend's car.
After he show'd our
friend how to master the launch he got within a
tenth.
In my own car (95 VR-4) and exhaust/fipk as only mods I was
getting a 13.4, my
husband/driver was getting a 13.2, another friend of ours
was getting a 13.3.
So... driver makes a big difference.
All that
aside I'd definitely think there is something missing/wrong with
our
mechanical setup. The guys here can help you with the mechanical setup!
You
should be getting better times than that. If you are already an expert
driver I
apologize for the speach, but maybe it will help some other readers
out there...
in racing the set of the car gives you the max possible speed,
and its up to the
driver to get it there.
Nissa
95 VR-4 POS car :P
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 May 2000 11:26:40 -0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: OMG! STOCK BOV SUCKS!
What modifications are required to plumb
this one back in?
- -----Original Message-----
From: R.G. [
mailto:robby@freesurf.ch]
Sent: Saturday,
May 27, 2000 11:10 AM
To: Team3S List
Subject: Re: Team3S: OMG! STOCK BOV
SUCKS!
> What is the best BOV I can get for a 95
VR4????
Get a 2st gen DSM replacement (Buschur ?) and you're fine with a
cheaper
price. Replaces the factory BPV and vents back to the
intake.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
***Info:
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***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 May 2000 20:15:28 +0200
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Detonation
> Obviously no detonation is best, but what is an
allowable
> amount of detonation?
Knock sum of 18, then timig gets
retarded. No knock is better :)
> When you actually feel the
timing being adjusted for detonation,
> is the detonation extremely
high?
Yes, above 35 - 40 (25 is not yet noticeable, only retards timing
about
1-3°)
> Is it possible to tune in a Water/Alcohol
injection
> system with just your EGT gauges?
Hmm, too much water
would show very low EGTs. Keeping the temps around 1500
would be nice as the
EGT goes higher when the timing is retarded.
> Who makes the best
system for our cars in your honest opinions?
The "best" is the
ERL/Aquamist as they offer you different stages up to 3D
water map tuning
(the system I'm running). But it is not necessary for our
cars as I found out
that a simple on/off system works good on our cars. I
can recommend the
System 1s from ERL but it is not the cheapest one (more a
high end
one)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 May 2000 23:09:44 +0200
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: OMG! STOCK BOV SUCKS!
> What modifications are required to
plumb this one back in?
None
> Get a 2st gen DSM replacement
(Buschur ?) and you're fine with a cheaper
> price. Replaces the factory
BPV and vents back to the intake.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 May 2000 15:56:46 -0600
From: Dean Knoepfle <
speedfreek@uswest.net>
Subject:
Team3S: detonation
Roger,
Thanks for your input but you still did
not say whether you
think it is possible to tune in the "WI" with just
your
EGT's. Since the "WI" system that you have is not necessary
do
you have a alternative system that you would recommend?
BTW, how did
the system that you have cost if you don't
mind me asking? Thanks
again for your input in this
matter.
Dean
1994 3000GT
VR4
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 May 2000 16:38:35 -0600
From: "Steven Davis" <
s.g.davis@worldnet.att.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Greddy Profec B
Does anyone have experience with a Greddy Profec
B Boost Controller
installed on our type of car? I have recently
purchased one and have
figured out where to hook up the input, (from the
solenoid), however, I am
not sure of where to hook up the vacuum line from
the output of the
solenoid.
Also any help on proper configuration of
the Dip switches on the back of the
unit would be appreciated.
Steve
Davis
1992 VR-4
s.g.davis@worldnet.att.net***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 May 2000 02:09:09 +0200
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: detonation
> Thanks for your input but you still did not say
whether you
> think it is possible to tune in the "WI" with just
your
> EGT's.
I maybe can tell you when everything is installed
including the EGTs. I have
the datalogger and this is what works very well
for me !
> Since the "WI" system that you have is not
necessary
> do you have a alternative system that you would
recommend?
I wrote : I can recommend the System 1s from ERL but it is not
the cheapest
one (more a
high end one)
I do have the System 2s with
an additional boost sensor that enables the 3D
function.
>
BTW, how did the system that you have cost if you don't
> mind me
asking?
I got a special price because my car was the first 3s car with
the ERL
system and I got the jets for free to test. I also got one of the
first race
pumps (included in the "s" systems) for the normal price. For
current prices
in £ check out their site under
http://www.aquamist.co.uk Under the
section
"Supplier listing" you find the prices as well as a possible
local
distributor. The current price for a System 1s is around
£320.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 May 2000 19:57:41 -0500
From: xwing <
xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Re:slow 1/4 mile time
If your car is capable of 100.89 mph it is making
reasonable hp, and
should be capable of ~13.5 to 13.9 if driven
correctly. Your launch,
and possibly your downtrack shifting, need some
improvement.
For example, I'd bet your 60 foot time is 1.9+ at best...should
be
in the 1.8's, and if really good in the 1.7's.
Jack T.
DOWNDRIVEN1@cs.com wrote:
> 92
VR-4. track yesterday 14.639 @ 100.89 mph.
> K&N FIPK, Digital
APEXi AVC-R
> Boost Controller. peak boost was 1.30
> kg/cm2,
18.4 psi. I should have a faster time.
> why? what times are
rest of club running for comparison?
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
27 May 2000 19:57:38 -0700
From: John Monnin <
jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Valves marked pistons
I pulled my heads off today to make sure
that the one crank bearing was the only problem with the engine this is what I
found:
- - The exhaust cam on the foward bank was rotated 1 tooth
too far counter-clockwise. The timing belt was not in the right place but
it looked like only the foward exhaust cam was affected.
- - The intake
valves on both the foward and rear bank have hit the pistons because they have
half moin gouges in them, not very deep but definately valve interference.
-
- The valves show almost no signs of hitting the pistons except that they
are a little shiny one one edge, intake valves only.
I was expecting to
see damage on the exhuast valve on the forward bank because of the timing chain
but I was not expecting to see damage caused by intake valves.
Any Idea what
happened?
The valve edges look good what other damage should I look
for?
I have to develope the digital pictures I took at work so I will not
be able to post pictures on a web site for a few days.
John Monnin 91 VR4
(now in easy to carry pieces)
jkmonnin@altavista.com>
My engine came in too soon.
> I ordered a rebuilt twin turbo engine for
my 91 VR4 under the conditions that when
it finally arrived I would have the
choice to accept it or not. at $3295 it was
not cheap but I could not
find a better deal.
> The engina came in today and they will only hold
the engine till Tuesday.
>
> I have removed the old engine
myself and am in the process of examining the parts
to determine if it is
worth rebuilding. I rremoved the rod and crank bearings and
everthing looks good except for the crank bearing 2nd from
transmission. THis bearing
has gouges in the center but the edges are
fine. The crank shaft has almost no noticible
damage on it.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1. Will
a single crank bearing cause the loud rod knocking sound or should I be
looking in the heads for additional damage?
>
> 2.
Has anyone costed new pistons? I have a machine shop that will clean block
overbore it and install and balance new crank and pistons for only $320 if I
supply
the parts.
> I priced the following components (Tallahasse
Mitsu gave me abetter price on almost
every part but I can't find the quote)
>
> Gasket set: $300
> Main Bearing set
$21
> Thrust washer $16
> Rod bearings $59
> Crank: $682
> Oil Pump: $140
>
Pistons: $ 55 each $330
> Connecting rods $96 x 6 $576
> Piston Rings ,set $147
>
> What I am looking
for is prices on aftermarket pistons. It sound like the stock
rods are
beefy enough for most mild engine modifications, is that true?
_______________________________________________________________________
Why
pay when you don't have to? Get AltaVista Free Internet Access now!
http://jump.altavista.com/freeaccess4.go_______________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 May 2000 22:34:05 -0600
From: Dean Knoepfle <
speedfreek@uswest.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Detonation
Roger,
Thanks for all your input!!
Take
care, Dean
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 May 2000 11:29:30 +0200
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Valves marked pistons
> - The exhaust cam on the foward
bank was rotated 1 tooth too far
counter-clockwise.
Hmm, but one tooth
should be in the tolerance and the valves shouldn't hit
the
pistons.
> The timing belt was not in the right place but it
looked like only the
foward exhaust cam was affected.
> - The
intake valves on both the foward and rear bank have hit the pistons
because
they have half moin gouges in them, not very deep but definately
valve
interference.
This means that the belt slipped two teeths. With three
teeths the valves
start to bend. It's also possible that it was only one
teeth but the pistons
have a lot carbon buildup on them.
> -
The valves show almost no signs of hitting the pistons except that they
are a
little shiny one one edge, intake valves only.
If the leak down test
showed fair numbers for the valves closing good then
your fine.
> I
was expecting to see damage on the exhuast valve on the forward bank
because
of the timing chain but I was not expecting to see damage caused by
intake
valves.
> Any Idea what happened?
The belt slipped at the crank and
all cams where off. Very seldom, but
possible.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 May 2000 09:17:13 -0500
From: "Vineet Singh" <
billi_gates@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: MPG (re: stock bov sucks)
As an aside, I used to get 300miles or
so out of a tank of gas (17.?gallons)
which is about 17mpg.
I've gone
through 2 tanks now with the 1g DSM BOV, and now get 340miles, and
just
yesterday 369!! (21mpg!). And this is with hard driving (somewhat).
Some of
that is city and some is highway (I would say half/half).
I have never
seen such mileage, even out of my DSM, and am very pleased. I
don't attribute
it all to the bov, but I actually went out and tuned the car
with the logger
and AFC, now I have much leaner AFC settings, and more power
than ever (with
less boost)
In actuality, not much of this has to do with the BOV change,
but rather,
the efficiency of my turbo's has been "increased" more than
stock. Stock
settings with higher than stock boost was probably more hot air
than
anything (since some of it was leaking through the stock BOV), and
then
increased knock brought timing down, so whatever gain you thought you
would
get, was negated by the ECU through reduced timing. Reduced timing =
bad
mpg, bad acceleration, and I think hotter EGT's.
My AFC settings
with the 450cc injectors are pretty much the same for hi and
low throttle
positions. Starts NOW at -35% fuel, and almost linearly goes to
0% adjustment
at wot. I used to have -20% to + 10% at 7000rpms. Car is much
more
responsive, and knock is down to around 28 counts at the top of 3rd
gear. I
hope that water injection will bring that down even further and
maybe have
more than 13 degrees of timing (average at WOT).
Anyone have a WI kit for
sale? Spearco? Who else makes one (aquamist?). How
much $$$ are we talking
about? Also, all my IC fins between the air cores
are smushed from debris...
and possibly little kids fingers (I see a poked
in gouge from either a
pencil, a really hard cigarette, or a small persons
finger :). The cores
themselves aren't damaged. I remember that someone said
(Roger?) to take the
IC's off and fix the fins while watching a movie or
something.
How
hard is it to take the IC's off? The bumper seems like it has to come of
f
(since the hard inlet/outlet's are so large)... I don't want to do
that.
Vineet Singh - Paid $2.19 ($37.00!) for 93 Ultimate gas... what a
rip!
Wonder if race gas prices have gone up? I might as well find a
race
gas pump, and use that instead!
Manuals On CD -
http://manualcd.dsm.orgClub DSM A/T -
http://at.dsm.org - "Never Lift To
Shift!"
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 May 2000 09:32:11 -0500
From: "Vineet Singh" <
billi_gates@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Drive train losses
>modded NT's can just about keep up with
stock 3/S turbos!??? But if
Vineet's car is 300HP that shows 200-210HP
at the wheels, and mine is
164HP that shows 150HP at the wheels with just an
FIPK and an eRAM,
doesn't that indicate that something's not right with his
car???<
Yea, It's called "Magilla Gorilla worked on my car before me".
Because I
have the only 3/S in the world with more than 10 standard thread
bolt and
nuts on it. Possibly the most stripped threads in the engine
compartment
area, and PROBABLY the dirtiest engine compartment to
boot!
Somone had the bright idea of putting some sort of "clear coat" all
over
everything in the engine compartment. Sure, it looked nice when I BOUGHT
it,
but the heat has yellowed it, and tarnished the aluminum parts. You have
to
see it to believe it. The only way to get it off is to pick it off with
your
fingernails. 10 fingernails is no match for the amount of crap covering
my
engine/hoses/acc.
It doesn't dissolve with anything (that also
doesn't dissolve my engine
compartment paint, yes, I've tried like 8 things
now).
I like everything to be clean (it's easier to work on that way),
but I dread
working on the 3/S. AND IT'S NOT MY FAULT! :)
I must have
had an intake plenum leak (due to standard thread bolts),
missing/stripped
crossmember bolts and other stuff. So 210 "baseline" hp was
probably pretty
GOOD for the condition the car started out as :)
I still think losses are
over 15% (just because of AWD). I do see the point
about the "75000btu"
heater effect... I was thinking that people in Europe
dynoed a stealth and a
3000gt of some year, and got the ~%28% figure?
Vineet Singh
Manuals On
CD -
http://manualcd.dsm.orgClub DSM
A/T -
http://at.dsm.org - "Never
Lift To Shift!"
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 May 2000 15:51:19 -0400
From: "Gene" <
Gene@bullmarketpicks.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: stock bov sucks
Does anyone make a complete 1g bov kit for
the 3000gt with everything needed
for the
installation?
***Info:
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End
of team3s V1 #151
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