team3s
Thursday, May 11
2000
Volume 01 : Number
132
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 00:53:29 +0200
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: TMO cable
Jeff,
> I have not had good luck with the
cable. When I first received
> it last year it quit working pretty soon. I
suspected static
> shock or broken wire, but could not confirm this by
inspecting
> the unit (I'm sure you've looked inside also).
No,
there was no need for this so far. What I usually do is to remove the
key and
then insert the 12V and the plug to the port (I use the lower right
free one
in the fuse box. Then I connect it to the notebook. I never had
problems with
three different notebooks either if they were already running
or not. Finally
I start the car and hit the connect button... null problemo
:) Hope you'll
find the same good behaviour when you get it.
> If I remember
correctly, you were working on a replacement for
> the TMO. Is that
project still on?
No, absolutely not. There was just a discussion on that
as Todd doesn't move
a finger to help us with the 3S problems (timing, 2 O2
sensors, etc.) Also
new version will probbaly never see the light so we jsut
have to live with
that. I'm ways away from programming right now as my last
program written in
C++ was about 8 years ago.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 May 2000 16:26:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: TMO cable
Roger,
That's the same proceedure I use.
Plus I just leave it all
connected after I'm done with car when I'm doing a
lot of
testing. I do use a different fuse in the junction box, #8,
which
is ignition switched, or when I'm not lazy I draw power
from a wire (that
supplies most of my gauges) that connects to
C-59 pin 4. I have described all
my actions to Todd and he
doesn't see that I'm doing anything wrong. I guess
I've just
been unlucky (well 2 of the dozens of times I've used
it).
Thanks for the feedback.
Jeff Lucius
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
To:
"Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, May 10, 2000 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: TMO
cable
Jeff,
> I have not had good luck with the cable. When I
first received
> it last year it quit working pretty soon. I suspected
static
> shock or broken wire, but could not confirm this by
inspecting
> the unit (I'm sure you've looked inside also).
No,
there was no need for this so far. What I usually do is to
remove the key and
then insert the 12V and the plug to the port
(I use the lower right free one
in the fuse box. Then I connect
it to the notebook. I never had problems with
three different
notebooks either if they were already running or not. Finally
I
start the car and hit the connect button... null problemo :)
Hope you'll
find the same good behaviour when you get it.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo!
Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 May 2000 18:35:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Boost levels
Just got the car back from the turbo upgrade...seems
to run just fine.
But now if I step onit..and ride WOT, the OEM boost
guage now only reads
up to about 8psi.
WTF?
I at least
expect it to peg-out as inaccurately as it USED to do...ideas?
- ---
I
LUV YOU VIRUS UPDATE!
*Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_ that you
decided to open an attachment listed as
a love letter from nobody you
know? This isnt a virus thats choking Email server, its
intelligently
deciding who should have thier computers taken away by force.
-
---
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 May 2000 18:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Water injection mounting..
Im not in the mood to reinvent our
battery, and Im having a tough time
with alternate locations to mount the
res. for the water.
Any other ideas?
- ---
I LUV YOU VIRUS
UPDATE!
*Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_ that you decided to
open an attachment listed as
a love letter from nobody you know? This
isnt a virus thats choking Email server, its
intelligently deciding who
should have thier computers taken away by force.
-
---
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 May 2000 21:36:27 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: AWD Racing drivers - Read please
>I agree that
putting our AWD cars against back 1/2 Rear Wheel Drive or
>tube frame cars
is not a fair competition for our average AWD car.
>Please send your
opinion to
GSXCOP95@aol.com>Arty 91
VR-4
>
We don't have such problems in open tracking. It's run what you
brung, and
you are classified according to your on-track experience.
Nobody
discriminates against AWD cars.
Rich/old poop/94
VR4
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 May 2000 21:58:07 -0500
From: "Oskar" <
swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Water injection mounting..
You can get a smaller battery such as the
Odyssey ($159 from
www.jegs.com).
This is
the same battery as the now discontinued Black Panther.
Oskar
'95 R/T
TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
<
team3s@www.speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: Water injection
mounting..
> Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im
having a tough time
> with alternate locations to mount the res. for the
water.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> ---
> I LUV YOU
VIRUS UPDATE!
>
> *Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_ that
you decided to open an
attachment listed as
> a love letter from nobody
you know? This isnt a virus thats choking Email
server, its
>
intelligently deciding who should have thier computers taken away
by
force.
> ---
>
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 May 2000 23:10:15 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Testing Day for camber plates
We went testing today at the
Marshalltown International Speedway, and I
finally got a chance to test
Brad's Big Red brake conversion kit, the new
camber plates, and the
suspension settings.
We rented the track ($50 per car, up from last
year), and I ran about 75
laps. It was a nice warm day, and I could run about
10-12 laps at a time
before the temperature gauge crept up toward hot.
Brad's brakes WORK! No fade, solid stops from 70+ mph and -- wonder
of
wonders -- no clouds of black brake dust. I have air ducts, but we don't
go
fast enough at Marshalltown (0.7 mile, 13 turns, 55 mph average) to
really
cool the brakes down, and I didn't use my water injection (didn't
need
it!). That means the brakes were working just fine, all by
themselves,
without any real cooling to speak of.
When I run the
Pagid Blacks on the street, they generate gobs of black
dust. Today, nearly
no dust. I don't know if this is because they are
finally bedded in, or if
they dust badly when street cold, or what. I
haven't checked the pads for
wear yet.
The brakes did not contribute to any lap time improvements.
Our stock
brakes stop the car pretty dang good, they just don't stop the car
very
often. Brad's brakes were installed to improve longevity of pads and
stop
fading.
We had a problem with a mysterious loss of brake fluid.
My BRAKE light was
on nearly the entire time, because of a low brake fluid
reservoir. No leaks
show on the ground, and I couldn't see anything with a
cursory check. It
will go back on the alignment rack soon, and we'll check
the system. When
we installed Brad's kit, we also installed his SS lines
front and rear, and
one might be leaking.
We installed camber plates 3
weeks ago, and set the camber to one degree
negative in the front, with +0.15
deg toe. When we used a pryrometer on the
tires today, the right side fronts
read within 5 deg across, with the
inside and outside exactly the same (190
deg) and the center 5 deg lower.
My instructor consultant said that was
perfect. The left sides were about
165 deg, also within 5 deg on all three
readings. Marshalltown has mostly
left turns, which puts all the stress on
the right front, so it reads
higher temps.
So, for what it's worth, a
setting of minus 1 deg camber, +0.15 toe and
maximum castor seems to work
pretty well, at least on a low-speed track.
We'll test again at the next
big road course event but, for now, I think
I'll leave the settings alone. On
the advice of several folks here, I plan
to put the bump stops back in and
get the car realigned, but we'll stick
with those settings.
Results?
When I ran Marshalltown last year, I got down to 42.1 sec, running
mostly in
the mid 42s. Today, I was lapping in the low 41 second range,
once dipping
into the 40s. So, the suspension and camber plates are good
for about one
second off on a 0.7 mile course.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
Eibachs,
lowered, Ground Control camber kit, Big Red Porsche Turbo
calipers, Pagid
Blacks, air ducts, SS brake lines, water injection brake
cooling, Yoko 032R
tires, stock engine.
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 May 2000 21:19:20 -0700
From: vect0r0 <
vect0r0@ix.netcom.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Ok. My 1st ENGINE TROUBLE post. HELP!
Alright.. I let me
cousin borrow my car (1st mistake), a 1992 Stealth
TT with 15G's and all
necessary electronics/fuel/intake/injectors etc.
I've never had trouble with
the engine before but today, I started up my
car and the motor starts to make
a clanking sound. When I rev it up, I
get some HARD banging noises from
what seems to be the rear bank of
cylinders. It's random in occurance,
and sound, but it doesn't sound
very good.
I took it down the street,
and it's LOUD... Clanging and banging around
it seems. I tried
some boost (maybe not a good idea) just to see if it
would rev up some and it
seems to go up in RPM and boost just fine, but
the banging around in the
engine compartment continues to be loud.
What is weird, tho, is that I
can FEEL the engine in my clutch petal as
well. When I let it out
slowly while decelerating, I can feel a rapid
"clank." My
clutch is old, tired, and needed to be replaced quite a
while ago. But
I'm not too savy with engine troubles, and haven't ruled
out a worn out
clutch/flywheel/bearing.
If anyone would have some ideas, I would greatly
appreciate it. This
sounds serious to me and need to be prepared for
the worst. Any
possible ideas as to the cause of the noise, or (if the
block isn't
mared) what kind of a price it's gonna be to replace the
pistons/etc.?
Thank you very much for any advice.
John
As on
now, Twin Turbo-less..... :(
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 May 2000 20:42:30 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Testing Day for camber plates
Merritt wrote:
> We rented the
track ($50 per car, up from last year), and I ran about 75
> laps. It was
a nice warm day, and I could run about 10-12 laps at a time
> before the
temperature gauge crept up toward hot.
Hmmmm !!!! I don't have any
laps when outside temp is hot but I've not heard
anyone complain about
overheating at speed. Have you flushed the system or
tried one of the water
wetters [ redline makes one ]
???
===================================================
> When I
run the Pagid Blacks on the street, they generate gobs of black
> dust.
Today, nearly no dust. I don't know if this is because they are
> finally
bedded in, or if they dust badly when street cold, or what. I
> haven't
checked the pads for wear yet.
I had the pagid blacks and agree about
the damn black dust --- they also
chewed up a set of rotors in short order. I
now have the Porterfield [ non-
cryo --- I was in a rush ] and the R4 pads.
Dust is no longer a problem and
I don't have enough time on them to see how
they affect the
rotors.
======================================================
>
> We installed camber plates 3 weeks ago, and set the camber to one
degree
> negative in the front, with +0.15 deg toe. When we used a
pryrometer on the
> tires today, the right side fronts read within 5 deg
across, with the
> inside and outside exactly the same (190 deg) and the
center 5 deg lower.
> My instructor consultant said that was perfect. The
left sides were about
> 165 deg, also within 5 deg on all three readings.
Marshalltown has mostly
> left turns, which puts all the stress on the
right front, so it reads
> higher temps.
I have a write-up done for
Tire Rack about measuring tire temps if you're
interested --- just let me
know and I'll forward it to
you.
Jim
berry
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 05:58:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Water injection mounting.
I think Matt at Dynamic Racing uses
the rear washer bottle,
Roger G. uses the European headlight washer bottle
(in front
fender), Mikael A. moved the battery to the rear
compartment,
and others use the front washer bottle. I am planning to
add
this upgrade next year so I am also interested in
responses/solutions
[pun intended :)].
PS. another Team3S address change?
Jeff Lucius,
3SI #476
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified
-->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
<
team3s@www.speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: Water injection
mounting..
Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im having
a
tough time with alternate locations to mount the res. for
the
water.
Any other
ideas?
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo!
Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 08:10:38 -0500
From: "Brett Russell" <
brussell@powercom.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Gas cover release
Hey all, I'm having a bit of a problem with my
3000 this morning; my gas
tank cover won't open. I can hear the sound
like it's releasing when I pull
the lever all the way up (it only makes the
sound at the very last point,
not as soon as I lift it like my Stealth did),
but the cover stays in place.
It's still attached, as I cannot gently pry it
open, but if I press on it I
hear a click like it's reattaching. I took
apart the lever assembly last
night in hopes that I just needed to adjust
something, but I didn't see
anyplace to tighten the cable or anything.
Has anyone experienced anything
like this? I fear I may have to take it
to our town Dodge dealership, as my
Mitsubishi dealer is ~60 miles away and I
don't have enough gas to get
there. Does anyone have any ideas on how I
could fix this myself?
Thanks,
Brett
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 15:40:28 +0200
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Water injection mounting..
> Im not in the mood to reinvent
our battery, and Im having a tough time
> with alternate locations to
mount the res. for the water.
This highly depends on what system is
mounted. We also have a water bottle
in the rear for the washer that is
almost never used. But it is small and
I'm not sure if it has a level sensor.
If you use the pre-pressurized system
then you cannot use a normal
bottle.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 07:29:04 -0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Water injection mounting.
No..not another address
change..whoops!
I just send the team3s mail from my account on the server
which hosts the domo
list..thats all. (its still a valid address..that
and many others are just
virtuals domains being served)
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius [
mailto:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
Sent:
Thursday, May 11, 2000 5:59 AM
To:
team3s@www.speedtoys.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Water injection mounting.
I think Matt at Dynamic Racing
uses the rear washer bottle,
Roger G. uses the European headlight washer
bottle (in front
fender), Mikael A. moved the battery to the rear
compartment,
and others use the front washer bottle. I am planning to
add
this upgrade next year so I am also interested in
responses/solutions
[pun intended :)].
PS. another Team3S address change?
Jeff Lucius,
3SI #476
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified
-->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
<
team3s@www.speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: Water injection
mounting..
Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im having
a
tough time with alternate locations to mount the res. for
the
water.
Any other
ideas?
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo!
Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 10:57:28 -0400
From: "Heikki Pikkujamsa" <
hpikkujamsa@compuserve.com>
Subject:
Team3S: SX FPR
Does any of you have installed SX FPR? I plan to feed both
fuel rails from
the left side, then connect the FPR directly to the other end
of rails. But
there is very limited space between the rear turbo pipe/upper
intake
manifold and I might not be able to squeeze the FPR between them. Any
ideas?
I'd rather not run fuel hoses around the engine bay if I can avoid
it.
Heikki
'92 R/T TT
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 08:23:42 -0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Water injection mounting..
I guess you missed the.."> Im
not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im
having a tough time
>
with alternate locations to mount the res. for the water."
part.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Oskar [
mailto:swede@pclink.com]
Sent: Wednesday,
May 10, 2000 7:58 PM
To: Geoff Mohler; Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
injection mounting..
You can get a smaller battery such as the
Odyssey ($159 from
www.jegs.com).
This is
the same battery as the now discontinued Black Panther.
Oskar
'95 R/T
TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
<
team3s@www.speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: Water injection
mounting..
> Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im
having a tough time
> with alternate locations to mount the res. for the
water.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> ---
> I LUV YOU
VIRUS UPDATE!
>
> *Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_ that
you decided to open an
attachment listed as
> a love letter from nobody
you know? This isnt a virus thats choking Email
server, its
>
intelligently deciding who should have thier computers taken away
by
force.
> ---
>
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 08:27:37 -0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Ok. My 1st ENGINE TROUBLE post. HELP!
Busted piston/rod.
Youre probly already past the point of being able to
reconstruct the
cylinders if youve let it bang around this long already.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: vect0r0 [
mailto:vect0r0@ix.netcom.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:19 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Ok. My 1st ENGINE TROUBLE post. HELP!
Alright..
I let me cousin borrow my car (1st mistake), a 1992 Stealth
TT with 15G's and
all necessary electronics/fuel/intake/injectors etc.
I've never had trouble
with the engine before but today, I started up my
car and the motor starts to
make a clanking sound. When I rev it up, I
get some HARD banging noises
from what seems to be the rear bank of
cylinders. It's random in
occurance, and sound, but it doesn't sound
very good.
I took it down
the street, and it's LOUD... Clanging and banging around
it
seems. I tried some boost (maybe not a good idea) just to see if
it
would rev up some and it seems to go up in RPM and boost just fine,
but
the banging around in the engine compartment continues to be
loud.
What is weird, tho, is that I can FEEL the engine in my clutch
petal as
well. When I let it out slowly while decelerating, I can feel
a rapid
"clank." My clutch is old, tired, and needed to be
replaced quite a
while ago. But I'm not too savy with engine troubles,
and haven't ruled
out a worn out clutch/flywheel/bearing.
If anyone
would have some ideas, I would greatly appreciate it. This
sounds
serious to me and need to be prepared for the worst. Any
possible ideas
as to the cause of the noise, or (if the block isn't
mared) what kind of a
price it's gonna be to replace the pistons/etc.?
Thank you very much for any
advice.
John
As on now, Twin Turbo-less.....
:(
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 10:28:27 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <
jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Water injection mounting..
Jeff,
About the only other option
you have is to mount it in the front
bumper. I have some pics of this
type of install on my web site.
www.geocities.com/jbasol <
http://www.geocities.com/jbasol>
Select 1995 Dodge Stealth on the index frame. About half way down
the
Stealth page you'll find a pic of the Spearco tank mounted in my
front
bumper. The location seems to work fine. Filling the tank
is only slightly
more difficult than an underhood mounting. Good
luck.
John Basol
'95 RT/TT
-----Original
Message-----
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.com [
SMTP:jeff.mohler@netapp.com]
Sent:
Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:24 AM
To:
swede@pclink.com;
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com;
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Water injection mounting..
I guess you missed the..">
Im not in the mood to reinvent our
battery, and Im
having a tough
time
> with alternate locations to mount the res. for the water."
part.
-----Original Message-----
From: Oskar [
mailto:swede@pclink.com]
Sent: Wednesday,
May 10, 2000 7:58 PM
To: Geoff Mohler; Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
injection mounting..
You can get a smaller battery such as the
Odyssey ($159 from
www.jegs.com).
This
is the same battery as the now discontinued Black Panther.
Oskar
'95
R/T TT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
<
team3s@www.speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: Water injection
mounting..
> Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im
having a tough
time
> with alternate locations to mount the res. for
the water.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> ---
> I LUV
YOU VIRUS UPDATE!
>
> *Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_
that you decided to
open an
attachment listed as
> a love letter
from nobody you know? This isnt a virus thats
choking Email
server,
its
> intelligently deciding who should have thier computers taken
away
by
force.
> ---
>
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 11:11:06 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Minnesota 3/S updates (off topic)
Hey everyone,
I've made
some huge updates to my "Minnesota 3/S" website.
http://www.mn3s.orgI have a few bugs to
work out of it, but for the most part it is complete.
Minnesota 3/S is
packed with good information on mods, links, drag racing
times, local stuff,
gatherings and 3/S optional equipment. Did you know
that MN 3/S has
had 22 offical gatherings in the last 18 months?? And many
more
"unoffical" events.
At last count, the website had over 50
pages to it. There are so many
pictures on this site that it takes up
over 16 meg! And now it is easier to
navigate with the frames bar on
the left. So take some time, and browse
around....
One other
thing. The Upper Midwest Gathering is fast approaching. Only 8
days left to get signed up and make hotel arrangements. All the
details are
at:
http://www.mn3s.org/upper-midwest.htmlGot
comments?? Send them to me privatly. Thanks!
Thanks for
listening,
Curt
MN 3/S #001
http://www.mn3s.org________________________________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 10:38:30 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Calculated boost behaviour with 13g
Roger,
This graph
you calculated from injector frequency is very interesting but IMHO
doesn't
seem representative of true boost. It shows you don't reach 14.5
psi
until almost 4100 RPM and also the curve has a noticable hump. For
a contrast,
my '91 with stock 9B's controlled with an SAVC-R and stock
exhaust & cats will
reach 14.2 psi (visually measured by my SPI gauge and
corroberated with the
SAVC-R gauge last night) between 3200-3400 RPM
depending upon the gear
(2nd-4th), the incline of the road, and how quick I
shift my gaze from the SPI
boost gauge to the RPM gauge. The SAVC-R
graph modes also always show a very
flat line from 3400-5100 RPM or so (Note:
I have boost set to 1.05 from 4K-5K
RPM and 1.00 every where else). For
larger turbos, I would expect it to take a
little longer, but not 800 RPM
longer, to reach only 14.5 psi, and I'd also
expect a flatter line through
higher RPM before boost falls. How accurate do
you feel your graph
is? While it is accurate as far as your ECU & injectors
are
concerned, I'd guess it is a little pessimistic of what your true boost
really
is.
Ken
> Ok, since we cannot log boost completely
with the datalogger or any device I
> thought of calculating boost for
analysing purposes upon the measured data
> like rpm and air flow
frequency read by the ECU. Unfortunately, with small
> injectors, the air
flow signal is maxed out at around 1260Hz and don't go
> higher. Correctly
said, the data sent by the ECU doesn't contain higher
> values. Now with
the 720cc installed the frequency is half and now do NOT
> exceed the
highest value (at least around 15psi). This now enables me to use
> the
recorded values for the calculation (hurray !!)
>
> For this I
simply pressed the reset button on the DSBC at 4000rpm and got a
>
reference boost there. This then gave me the divider I need to get the
>
correct factor to calculate boost out of the simple air-flow formula. So
far
> it seems that this works pretty good although below 8 psi it seems
not to be
> correct (also no vacuum of course). But for reading the turbos
boost
> behaviour the intersting range is between 3000 and 7000 rpm where
we like to
> know how fast they fall off. I put the recorded data and
formula together
> and the result looks like the curve the S-AVC-R2 can
draw on its display.
>
> The result is shown in the attached pic
(gif,15kB). Please note that this
> was on an slightly uphill road, with
the engine under full load in 3rd gear.
> I floored at 2500 up to 6900
(glowing brakes afterwards). Boost was set to
> around 15 psi (DSBC). This
resulted in lower boost in the lower rpm area as
> I usually do have 14
psi at 3200 rpm.Therefore, the interesting part is the
> fall off after
4500 rpm. With this data we can see that the 13g fall down to
> 13.4psi at
6000 rpm. This is about 2.5 psi more than the 9b but I can't say
> for
sure.
>
> Therefore I badly need another datalog from a 3s with
720cc too BUT stock 9b
> or any other turbos. Please send me a similar log
with flooring the car
> under full load from 2000 - 7000. I know this is
hard to do but should be
> possible on a highway ;-)
>
> If
anyone is interested in the Excel (CSV) files just drop me a mail and I
>
send it to you.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
- --
If
you're not the lead car, your view never changes!
Ken Middaugh (858)
455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 10:44:08 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Testing Day for camber plates
Hi Rich,
> We
installed camber plates 3 weeks ago, and set the camber to one degree
>
negative in the front, with +0.15 deg toe. When we used a pryrometer on
the
> tires today, the right side fronts read within 5 deg across, with
the
> inside and outside exactly the same (190 deg) and the center 5 deg
lower.
> My instructor consultant said that was perfect. The left sides
were about
> 165 deg, also within 5 deg on all three readings.
Marshalltown has mostly
> left turns, which puts all the stress on the
right front, so it reads
> higher temps.
I thought the ideal was to
have the same temps across the whole contact patch.
If so, then your tire
pressure should have been raised until the center temp
matched the
edges. The good news is your camber & caster yielded the same
temps
on the edges for that track -- good job!
- --
If you're not the
lead car, your view never changes!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General
Atomics
San Diego
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 11:39:08 -0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Testing Day for camber plates
Exactly, I was wondering about that
as well, -5deg center patch isnt
optimal..its a large difference in
fact.
Go up 2psi...retest.
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Ken Middaugh [
mailto:Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com]
Sent:
Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:44 AM
To: Merritt
Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Testing Day for camber plates
Hi Rich,
> We
installed camber plates 3 weeks ago, and set the camber to one degree
>
negative in the front, with +0.15 deg toe. When we used a pryrometer on
the
> tires today, the right side fronts read within 5 deg across, with
the
> inside and outside exactly the same (190 deg) and the center 5 deg
lower.
> My instructor consultant said that was perfect. The left sides
were about
> 165 deg, also within 5 deg on all three readings.
Marshalltown has mostly
> left turns, which puts all the stress on the
right front, so it reads
> higher temps.
I thought the ideal was to
have the same temps across the whole contact patch.
If so, then your tire
pressure should have been raised until the center temp
matched the
edges. The good news is your camber & caster yielded the same
temps
on the edges for that track -- good job!
- --
If you're not the
lead car, your view never changes!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General
Atomics
San Diego
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 14:27:49 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Testing Day for camber plates
>I thought the ideal was to
have the same temps across the whole contact
patch.
>If so, then your
tire pressure should have been raised until the center temp
>matched the
edges. The good news is your camber & caster yielded the
same
temps
>on the edges for that track -- good job!
My
instructor said that readings within 5 deg across the tire were perfect.
If
the difference had been substantial, then you would be right.
>--
Rich/old poop
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 12:16:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Testing Day for camber plates
But -5deg down the center of
the patch?
I see that as large, because thats a sign of the tire not
keeping a
consistent face to the ground when you load it..the face is
deforming
under load some.
If he says 5 is ok....
- ---
I
LUV YOU VIRUS UPDATE!
*Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_ that you
decided to open an attachment listed as
a love letter from nobody you
know? This isnt a virus thats choking Email server, its
intelligently
deciding who should have thier computers taken away by force.
- ---
On
Thu, 11 May 2000, Merritt wrote:
>
> >I thought the ideal
was to have the same temps across the whole contact
> patch.
>
>If so, then your tire pressure should have been raised until the center
temp
> >matched the edges. The good news is your camber &
caster yielded the same
> temps
> >on the edges for that track --
good job!
>
> My instructor said that readings within 5 deg across
the tire were perfect.
> If the difference had been substantial, then you
would be right.
> >--
> Rich/old poop
>
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:13:53
EDT
From:
TrboDrvr@aol.comSubject:
Team3S: Idling Trouble
I wonder if anyone can help me diagnose a weird
idling problem. First off, my car (91TT) idles very smoothly, so rough
idle is not the problem. The cold idle is fine--no problems there.
The cold and warm idle are fine when I have the AC running--no problem there
either. The problem is when the car is warm and the AC compressor cycles
off. If the car is at a standstill and the AC compressor cycles off, the
idle drops real low (around 500), and then SLOWLY recovers to normal.
Also, if the compressor is not running and the car is warm and I gun the engine
(or just push in the clutch while driving), the idle drops really low and then
slowly recovers (within, say, 5-10 seconds). It does not stall and does
not spit or sputter or bog down or misfire or anything like that. I'm at a
loss because the car otherwise runs and idles fine. It is just when its
warm and the compressor is off. Any suggestions?
Joe 91
TT
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 15:17:15 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <
jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Idling Trouble
Perhaps the Idle Speed Controller is getting a
little old and sluggish.
Anyone know a way to test it's
operation?
John Basol
'95 RT/TT
-----Original
Message-----
From:
TrboDrvr@aol.com [
SMTP:TrboDrvr@aol.com]
Sent:
Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:14 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Idling Trouble
I wonder if anyone can help me diagnose a weird
idling problem.
First off, my car (91TT) idles very smoothly, so rough idle
is not the
problem. The cold idle is fine--no problems there. The
cold and warm idle
are fine when I have the AC running--no problem there
either. The problem
is when the car is warm and the AC compressor
cycles off. If the car is at
a standstill and the AC compressor cycles
off, the idle drops real low
(around 500), and then SLOWLY recovers to
normal. Also, if the compressor
is not running and the car is warm and
I gun the engine (or just push in the
clutch while driving), the idle drops
really low and then slowly recovers
(within, say, 5-10 seconds). It
does not stall and does not spit or sputter
or bog down or misfire or
anything like that. I'm at a loss because the car
otherwise runs and
idles fine. It is just when its warm and the compressor
is off.
Any suggestions?
Joe 91 TT
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
End
of team3s V1
#132
*********************
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
team3s
Thursday, May 11
2000
Volume 01 : Number
133
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 16:33:04 -0400
From: Steve Lasher <
s_lasher@bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Motor Oil
What brands of motor oil do most of you on the list
use? I typically
use Mobil 1 Synthetic on the street and RedLine on the
track. Sometimes
I use Castrol Syntec (If Mobil 1 is
unavailable). However, I ran into a
guy who owns an Oil
Distributorship, and he was absolutely positive that
the best oil on the
market was Amsoil. He said it outperformed RedLine
in every test.
He said Mobil 1 isn’t really all synthetic, which is why
they
can’t print “100%” Synthetic on the bottle (They say
“Fully”
Synthetic). I was a bit surprised, since I’d
heard so much about
RedLine & Mobil 1, but then I realized that I
didn’t know of any
independent testing that actually showed which oil
was best. Is there a
site that shows an independent test comparing
Amsoil with RedLine &
Mobil 1?
This guy went on to say that Amsoil
oil filters were much better than
Mobil 1 filters as well – in both
flow capacity & filtration. He said
Mobil 1 filters remove
particles down to 20 microns, while Amsoil
filters remove particles under 5
microns. If that wasn’t enough, he
finally said that Amsoil
Air Filters outperformed K&N Air filters in
both air flow and
filtration.
After talking with him, I felt like I’d just been given
a snake oil
sales pitch. Is this stuff that good, or was he full of
it? And more
importantly, is there a site with independent test results
on this
stuff?
- -Steve
'92 VR-4
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 13:31:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Motor Oil
Im a redline guy street and track...tranny and LSD
as well.
The extended change intervals you can get because of the total
lack of
synthetic breakdown makes up for the cost.
Of course..being a
famimly friend of the Sr VP and Chief Chemist for
redline helps, but doesnt
affect my judgement..im just that much closer to
the facts.
- ---
I
LUV YOU VIRUS UPDATE!
*Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_ that you
decided to open an attachment listed as
a love letter from nobody you
know? This isnt a virus thats choking Email server, its
intelligently
deciding who should have thier computers taken away by force.
- ---
On
Thu, 11 May 2000, Steve Lasher wrote:
> What brands of motor oil do
most of you on the list use? I typically
> use Mobil 1 Synthetic on
the street and RedLine on the track. Sometimes
> I use Castrol
Syntec (If Mobil 1 is unavailable). However, I ran into a
> guy who
owns an Oil Distributorship, and he was absolutely positive that
> the
best oil on the market was Amsoil. He said it outperformed RedLine
>
in every test. He said Mobil 1 isn’t really all synthetic, which is
why
> they can’t print “100%” Synthetic on the bottle
(They say “Fully”
> Synthetic). I was a bit surprised,
since I’d heard so much about
> RedLine & Mobil 1, but then I
realized that I didn’t know of any
> independent testing that
actually showed which oil was best. Is there a
> site that shows an
independent test comparing Amsoil with RedLine &
> Mobil 1?
>
> This guy went on to say that Amsoil oil filters were much better
than
> Mobil 1 filters as well – in both flow capacity &
filtration. He said
> Mobil 1 filters remove particles down to 20
microns, while Amsoil
> filters remove particles under 5
microns. If that wasn’t enough, he
> finally said that
Amsoil Air Filters outperformed K&N Air filters in
> both air flow and
filtration.
>
> After talking with him, I felt like I’d just
been given a snake oil
> sales pitch. Is this stuff that good, or
was he full of it? And more
> importantly, is there a site with
independent test results on this
> stuff?
>
> -Steve
>
'92 VR-4
>
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 16:46:20 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: What's next?
We tested my suspension upgrades yesterday, and now
I'm not sure where to
go from here.
An instructor measured the tire
temps after a couple of hot laps (immediate
turn off the track, directly to
the pyrometer, no cool down at ALL!). The
tires read 190 deg inside and out,
and 185 in the center. The instructor
says that was absolutely dead-on
perfect, and I should be very happy,
because lots of guys agonize over
getting their tire temps to a 5-deg
spread and I got it the first time out
(pure luck, gang! Or maybe a good
suspension shop.). He says I could make
miniscule changes in the tire
pressure to get 190 all the way across, but
he'd leave it alone otherwise.
Observers say the car corners completely
flat.
I am wondering what to do next, if at all.
Here's the
situation: I run Eibach springs (550 front/315 rear) with Ground
Control
adjustable suspension and camber plates on stock struts. The car
has
been lowered 1.5 in. all the way around. It has Yoko A032R tires. I
run
1 deg negative camber, +0.15 toe, and maximum castor (+4.5 deg). We
tested on
a 0.7 mile/13 turn go kart track with about a 60 mph average
speed, top speed
of 70+, nice warm spring day, and ran 75 laps. We ran
about 40 laps before
checking tire temps.
I can still get some push and scrub the front
tires, but two instructors
tell me I am overdriving the tires when that
happens, and I should go a
little slower to go faster. There is no question
that *I* have to improve
to go faster (be smoother and more consistent), but
my question involve car
prep:
Is there anything else I can do to
improve the CAR'S cornering ability?
Sway bars? Chassis stiffeners?
Polyurethane bushings? Or do the tire
temperatures say that I am at the
optimum point now?
Mitsubishi lore says that the Eibachs will ruin my
stock struts very
quickly, because the stock shocks can't take the abuse from
the higher rate
springs. So, what kind of shocks should I go to next? GABs
seem to be the
strut of choice for Mitsus.
Another instructor said to
leave the furshlugginer suspension alone and
just get more seat time. He also
suggested I forgoe any horsepower mods
until I get used to the new
suspension. I'm still running a stock engine.
(I was kinda hoping that my
suspension mods were at an end, so I could kick
it up to 400 hp)
All
advice is welcome.
Rich/94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
AWD
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 14:19:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Idling Trouble
Joe,
Have you checked **every one** of
the items in the service
manual troubleshooting list for this problem? My 92
TT was
idling weird. I checked almost every item in the list, and
found
each component to be working fine (including everything
associated
with the TB). Then I reached the item I had left to
last because I didn't see
how it related because the car ran
fine otherwise. It was the crank angle
sensor, the CAS worked
fine but the timing was off. I fixed the timing and
idle is now
fine. I am not suggesting that the CAS is your problem, but
that
you should work methodically through the troubleshooting list.
Sorry
I cannot be of more specific help. Good luck.
Jeff Lucius, 3SI
#476
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified
-->
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/-
----- Original Message -----
From: <
TrboDrvr@aol.com>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, May 11, 2000 2:13 PM
Subject: Team3S: Idling Trouble
I
wonder if anyone can help me diagnose a weird idling problem.
<snip>
Joe 91
TT
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo!
Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 14:27:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: What's next?
Merrit:
Id have to say that because the
front track on our cars is 1" narrower
than the rear track..push is much
worse than it needs to be.
Id space out the front at least 1/4" per
side, I found a huge increase in
steering ability in Solo2 when I did that,
went from last to 2nd place
with that change alone across a two day
event...even edged out a nat.
champion in the class.
- ---
I LUV
YOU VIRUS UPDATE!
*Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_ that you
decided to open an attachment listed as
a love letter from nobody you
know? This isnt a virus thats choking Email server, its
intelligently
deciding who should have thier computers taken away by force.
- ---
On
Thu, 11 May 2000, Merritt wrote:
> We tested my suspension upgrades
yesterday, and now I'm not sure where to
> go from here.
>
>
An instructor measured the tire temps after a couple of hot laps
(immediate
> turn off the track, directly to the pyrometer, no cool down
at ALL!). The
> tires read 190 deg inside and out, and 185 in the center.
The instructor
> says that was absolutely dead-on perfect, and I should be
very happy,
> because lots of guys agonize over getting their tire temps
to a 5-deg
> spread and I got it the first time out (pure luck, gang! Or
maybe a good
> suspension shop.). He says I could make miniscule changes
in the tire
> pressure to get 190 all the way across, but he'd leave it
alone otherwise.
>
> Observers say the car corners completely
flat.
>
> I am wondering what to do next, if at all.
>
> Here's the situation: I run Eibach springs (550 front/315 rear) with
Ground
> Control adjustable suspension and camber plates on stock struts.
The car
> has been lowered 1.5 in. all the way around. It has Yoko
A032R tires. I
> run 1 deg negative camber, +0.15 toe, and maximum castor
(+4.5 deg). We
> tested on a 0.7 mile/13 turn go kart track with about a
60 mph average
> speed, top speed of 70+, nice warm spring day, and ran 75
laps. We ran
> about 40 laps before checking tire temps.
>
>
I can still get some push and scrub the front tires, but two instructors
>
tell me I am overdriving the tires when that happens, and I should go a
>
little slower to go faster. There is no question that *I* have to
improve
> to go faster (be smoother and more consistent), but my question
involve car
> prep:
>
> Is there anything else I can do to
improve the CAR'S cornering ability?
> Sway bars? Chassis stiffeners?
Polyurethane bushings? Or do the tire
> temperatures say that I am
at the optimum point now?
>
> Mitsubishi lore says that the
Eibachs will ruin my stock struts very
> quickly, because the stock shocks
can't take the abuse from the higher rate
> springs. So, what kind of
shocks should I go to next? GABs seem to be the
> strut of choice for
Mitsus.
>
> Another instructor said to leave the furshlugginer
suspension alone and
> just get more seat time. He also suggested I forgoe
any horsepower mods
> until I get used to the new suspension. I'm still
running a stock engine.
> (I was kinda hoping that my suspension mods were
at an end, so I could kick
> it up to 400 hp)
>
> All advice
is welcome.
>
> Rich/94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 AWD
>
>
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 17:10:28 -0400
From: Mark <
pagan@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Water injection mounting..
At 03:40 PM 5/11/00 +0200, R.G.
wrote:
<snip>
>I'm not sure if it has a level sensor. If you
use the pre-pressurized system
>then you cannot use a normal
bottle.
>
>Roger
>93'3000GT TT
<snip>
I use a
pre-pressurized system and use the front water bottle (I assume the
bottles
are made of the same material). I have no problems, no leaks, a
level
sensor and no knock ;), although sealing the top of the bottle was a
fun
task.
Mark
'93 R/T TT
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 14:41:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Water injection mounting..
*laugh*
So just how did you
do that?
On Thu, 11 May 2000, Mark wrote:
> At 03:40 PM
5/11/00 +0200, R.G. wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >I'm not
sure if it has a level sensor. If you use the pre-pressurized system
>
>then you cannot use a normal bottle.
> >
> >Roger
>
>93'3000GT TT
> <snip>
>
> I use a pre-pressurized
system and use the front water bottle (I assume the
> bottles are made of
the same material). I have no problems, no leaks, a
> level sensor
and no knock ;), although sealing the top of the bottle was a
> fun
task.
>
> Mark
> '93 R/T TT
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 17:23:00 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: What's next?
>Id have to say that because the front track
on our cars is 1" narrower
>than the rear track..push is much worse
than it needs to be.
>Id space out the front at least 1/4" per side,
I found a huge increase in
>steering ability in Solo2 when I did that,
went from last to 2nd place
>with that change alone across a two day
event...even edged out a nat.
>champion in the class.
>
How
exactly did you do the spacing? With washers, a spacer ring, or what?
You are
using Grade 8 longer wheel studs, right?
No problem with clearances on the
calipers, strut or fender?
I always thought spacers were a no-no, but I guess
it all depends on how
you do it.
Rich/94
VR4
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 14:46:46 -0700
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: Water injection mounting..
Your page lists 18psi, but you dont
list any fuel related MODs.
An omission, or are you running 18psi on
stock? Ya cant be..*grin*
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Basol, John [
mailto:jbasol@Carlson.com]
Sent:
Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:28 AM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Water injection mounting..
Jeff,
About the only other
option you have is to mount it in the front
bumper. I have some pics of
this type of install on my web site.
www.geocities.com/jbasol <
http://www.geocities.com/jbasol>
Select 1995 Dodge Stealth on the index frame. About half way down
the
Stealth page you'll find a pic of the Spearco tank mounted in my
front
bumper. The location seems to work fine. Filling the tank
is only slightly
more difficult than an underhood mounting. Good
luck.
John Basol
'95 RT/TT
-----Original
Message-----
From:
jeff.mohler@netapp.com [
SMTP:jeff.mohler@netapp.com]
Sent:
Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:24 AM
To:
swede@pclink.com;
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com;
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Water injection mounting..
I guess you missed the..">
Im not in the mood to reinvent our
battery, and Im
having a tough
time
> with alternate locations to mount the res. for the water."
part.
-----Original Message-----
From: Oskar [
mailto:swede@pclink.com]
Sent: Wednesday,
May 10, 2000 7:58 PM
To: Geoff Mohler; Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
injection mounting..
You can get a smaller battery such as the
Odyssey ($159 from
www.jegs.com).
This
is the same battery as the now discontinued Black Panther.
Oskar
'95
R/T TT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
<
team3s@www.speedtoys.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:40 PM
Subject: Team3S: Water injection
mounting..
> Im not in the mood to reinvent our battery, and Im
having a tough
time
> with alternate locations to mount the res. for
the water.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> ---
> I LUV
YOU VIRUS UPDATE!
>
> *Are you really that lonely and _pathetic_
that you decided to
open an
attachment listed as
> a love letter
from nobody you know? This isnt a virus thats
choking Email
server,
its
> intelligently deciding who should have thier computers taken
away
by
force.
> ---
>
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 14:50:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: What's next?
1/4" spacer ring on each wheel, with
hardened steel studs..ya.
Considering theres another .3" to make the
front even with the rear, I may
be shopping around a custom rotor with a
thicker hat.
Spacers arent a nono, just not on stock studs..and a
dangerous nono if you
race like that.
Added track in front increases
oversteer..or decreases push (depending how
you look at it)
> How
exactly did you do the spacing? With washers, a spacer ring, or what?
>
You are using Grade 8 longer wheel studs, right?
> No problem with
clearances on the calipers, strut or fender?
> I always thought spacers
were a no-no, but I guess it all depends on how
> you do it.
>
> Rich/94 VR4
>
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 16:49:03 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Water injection mounting..
> Your page lists 18psi, but you
dont list any fuel related MODs.
> An omission, or are you running 18psi
on stock? Ya cant
> be..*grin*
Sure you can... On stock
turbos the boost goes down quickly enough where the stock injectors can mostly
keep up. If you were to upgrade turbos then there's no way you can do it
as the airflow is much too high with the higher boost/rpm combination. I
was able to do it as well until I bolted on the 15G's last weekend. If I
try to go above 15 psi now I hit fuel cut, so now I'm forced into the larger
injectors. Still trying to get my ARC-2 working.
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 14:58:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Water injection mounting..
What problems you having with
arc2?
Im about to get one myself..but will probly drive down to LA and
have them
install it to cover all bases.
And yes, I have the minor
turbonetics upgrade. Feels good so far, but I
have to plug the WGs back
in..cant leave em open like they were before
*heh*
On Thu, 11 May
2000, Matt Jannusch wrote:
> > Your page lists 18psi, but you dont
list any fuel related MODs.
> > An omission, or are you running 18psi
on stock? Ya cant
> > be..*grin*
>
> Sure you
can... On stock turbos the boost goes down quickly enough where the stock
injectors can mostly keep up. If you were to upgrade turbos then there's
no way you can do it as the airflow is much too high with the higher boost/rpm
combination. I was able to do it as well until I bolted on the 15G's last
weekend. If I try to go above 15 psi now I hit fuel cut, so now I'm forced
into the larger injectors. Still trying to get my ARC-2 working.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 16:58:12 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <
jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Water injection mounting..
Exactly.
That 18psi is a peak,
and occurs at about 4800 RPM. After that the boost
starts dropping
off. The stock 9B weenie turbo's can't push more than about
13psi past
6000rpm and falls to as low as 12psi at the red line. Basically
I make
the little guys blow as hard as they can for as long as they can.
I
didn't need additional fuel, because A/F is not the problem with the
boost
curve that I produce. 4500RPM,
WOT,
18psi-way-out-of-efficiency-teeny-weenie-turbo-syndrome produces a
different
problem...Detonation. That's what the water is there
for. :-) Works well,
so far, so good. Been doing it for
almost a year now.
John Basol
'95 RT/TT -
TOOMUCHPRESSURE :-)
-----Original
Message-----
From: Matt Jannusch [
SMTP:MAJ@BigCharts.com]
Sent:
Thursday, May 11, 2000 4:49 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Water injection mounting..
> Your page lists 18psi, but
you dont list any fuel related MODs.
> An omission, or are you running
18psi on stock? Ya cant
> be..*grin*
Sure you can... On
stock turbos the boost goes down quickly enough
where the stock injectors can
mostly keep up. If you were to upgrade turbos
then there's no way you
can do it as the airflow is much too high with the
higher boost/rpm
combination. I was able to do it as well until I bolted on
the 15G's
last weekend. If I try to go above 15 psi now I hit fuel cut, so
now
I'm forced into the larger injectors. Still trying to get my
ARC-2
working.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 15:09:42 -0700
From: "Chris Maxwell" <
shmacker@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Need a way to determine rod bearing failure...
I have the heads off and
I'm replacing the rear head because I think it's a
goner. I just want
to make sure that the problem of the tapping, knocking,
whatever noises from
the engine is not from the rod bearing. I don't think
it is since I
have fairly good compression (150k mile motor) and I found
lots of hard
carbon desposits in the rear cylinder bank, but I just want to
be completely
sure before I put everything back together. I have the heads
off, but I
don't want to take the oil pan off because I supposedly need to
remove the
transfer case assembly. Is that hard to do? I notice that
the
manual says there are only two bolts that need to be taken off.
Seems a
little too easy, there has to be more to it right?
Is there a
way to check for a bad rod bearing without taking the oil pan
off? Like
is it noticeable from the top of the piston if the rod bearing is
bad?
Extra play when I turn the crank? Am I just a wishful thinker?
heh.
Thanks again guys,
Chris Maxwell
92 R/T TT (ordered some
GT-PRO 355 turbos to replace my
stockers...good
choice?)
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 17:10:33 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <
jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Need a way to determine rod bearing failure...
Chris,
The
compression will tell you little about the condition of the rod
or main
bearings. I would suspect that until a rod bearing disintegrates
the
connecting rod or portions of the block you would likely not see any
drop in
compression. The transfer case is held on by 5 bolts on the
94+
models. I cannot speak to the pre-'94 models, but I would guess the
same is
true with those as well. It really is not that much of a hassle
to get it
off. If you hearing a knocking from the lower part of the
engine I would
suggest pulling the oil pan and investigating. Better to
waste a few hours
and give yourself a sound nights sleep after it's all back
together, then
push even one more revolution with a bad rod bearing.
Connecting rods
through the side of engine blocks do not make for good
performance. :-)
Trust me I know from my "stupid kid"
years. :-)
John Basol
'95 RT/TT
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 15:24:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Water injection mounting (ARC2)
The ARC2 is super-easy to
install. The trick is getting the
knobs in the right position, and Brian and
Roger can help with
that. I have pics at
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/2-arc2.htm
Jeff Lucius
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff
Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
"Matt Jannusch" <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Cc: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:58 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Water injection
mounting..
What problems you having with arc2?
Im about to get one
myself..but will probly drive down to LA and
have them install it to cover
all bases.
__________________________________________________
Do
You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo!
Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 15:27:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Idling Trouble
The manuals have clear instructions for
testing all idle-related
components.
Jeff Lucius
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Basol, John" <
jbasol@Carlson.com>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, May 11, 2000 2:17 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Idling
Trouble
Perhaps the Idle Speed Controller is getting a little old
and
sluggish. Anyone know a way to test it's operation?
John
Basol
'95 RT/TT
- -----Original Message-----
From:
TrboDrvr@aol.com [
SMTP:TrboDrvr@aol.com]
Sent:
Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:14 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Idling Trouble
I wonder if anyone can help me diagnose a weird
idling
problem.
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo!
Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 17:58:41 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Water injection mounting (ARC2)
> The ARC2 is super-easy to
install. The trick is getting the
> knobs in the right position, and Brian
and Roger can help with
> that. I have pics at
I'm thinking mine is
somehow defective. I can't get it to dither the A/F ratio at idle.
It is full rich all the time or the motor quits (or cycles RPM up/down while the
ISC tries to stabilize idle and keep the car running). I've adjusted
low/mid/high/accell all to various values with no positive results. I've
adjusted the TPS to read .450v at idle, no difference there. I've tried
the settings that a local person is using successfully on his car to no avail,
etc. I'm just hoping that they'll fix it under warranty as I've not yet
been able to make it work successfully at all. I have another set of
values to try from Matt at Dynamic Racing which I'll try out this weekend, but
I'm not feeling very optimistic about it at this point, and I really* need to
get my 550's on the car.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 18:19:42 -0500
From: "Oskar" <
swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Water injection mounting..
not at all - I was just attempting to help out
- I guess I just didn't
realize that reinventing was synonymous with
purchasing
- ----- Original Message by Jeff Mohler
-----
> I guess you missed the.."> Im not in the mood
to reinvent our battery, and
Im
> having a tough time
> > with
alternate locations to mount the res. for the water."
part.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Oskar [
mailto:swede@pclink.com]
>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:58 PM
> To: Geoff Mohler; Team3S
>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water injection mounting..
>
>
> You can
get a smaller battery such as the Odyssey ($159 from
www.jegs.com).
> This is the same battery
as the now discontinued Black Panther.
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 12 May 2000 01:33:52 +0200
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Calculated boost behaviour with 13g
Ken et all,
> This
graph you calculated from injector frequency is very interesting
but
IMHO
> doesn't seem representative of true boost.
No, it
isn't calculated from the injector frequency at all. It's the signal
given
from the ARC upon the value it read from the MAF.
> It shows you
don't reach 14.5 psi until almost 4100 RPM and also the
curve has a noticable
hump.
I thought I explained why this is and in a next run I will record
the data
on a flat road. Please understand that I can't do this in 4rd gear
as I'd
exceed our speed limit on our highways a lot ;-)
> For a
contrast, my '91 with stock 9B's controlled with an SAVC-R and stock
>
exhaust & cats will reach 14.2 psi (visually measured by my SPI gauge
and
> corroberated with the SAVC-R gauge last night) between 3200-3400
RPM
> depending upon the gear (2nd-4th), the incline of the road, and how
quick
I
> shift my gaze from the SPI boost gauge to the RPM
gauge.
Do not shift ! My recorded data is like a run on the dyno. Choose
a flat
road and start at 1800 rpm WOT in 3rd gear up to 6000-7000 (210km/h at
7k)
You will see that boost climbs up and will indeed reach max boost
around
3200 or even a little earlier, depending on the controller and how the
low
end is handeled. In this situation, the discharge temperature and
the
efficiency of the turbo are on the bad islands pretty soon and the IC
have
to work overtime.
> The SAVC-R graph modes also always show a
very
> flat line from 3400-5100 RPM or so
Yes, this is the same
with a simulated 1/4 mile run, although I'm above 4800
in these cases but due
to the light overboost after shifting, the whole
bosot is a little higher.
Watch the resolution of the AVC-R2 and what's the
difference of two dots on
the display are. I think its pretty accurate for
what I have
seen.
> How accurate do you feel your graph is?
I took two
reference points, at 4k and 5k. Both are corresponding to the
calculation and
therefore the possible error is around 2-4% due to the
adjustability of the
ARC. But look at the graph again, the resolution is
high on the axis and
you'll note that I still have 13.4psi (0.94 kg/cm2) at
6000 rpm what I think
is not bad. And at 5100 boost is still 14.4psi (1.01
kg/cm2) compared to the
14.8psi (1.04 kg/cm2) max boost. What is the
measured boost at those rpm with
the AVC-R2 ?
Just record the same data on the AVC-R and I'm pretty
positive you'll find
somewhat same data. The diffenrence between 4000 and
5100 is only 2.7% and
is what I've seen on the two peak-holds of the Blitz
stuff (pressing reset
at the right moment. Of course my finger trigger is not
that accurate and
fast enough and therefore 2-4% offset is possible) and I
like to be on the
lower/safe side than on the too optimistic
side.
> While it is accurate as far as your ECU & injectors
are
> concerned, I'd guess it is a little pessimistic of what your true
boost
really
> is.
Of course me too but driving the car around
lately and watching the boost
gauges more than usually are proving the
results. Of course I will only
believe in data that is really measured from a
boost sensor and I hope to be
able to get the measuring device up and running
next week. Then I "simply"
have to put both data together and then
adjust the conversion factors for
the formula. As said, the data is NOT by
the injectors (I do also have a
combined boost, IDC% chart) but it is from
the air flow signal read by the
ECU. This signal determines how much fuel
must be given. Of ocurse, if I
change the ARC setting to richer, I'm
simulating more air flow. But the
trick is that the ARC is NOT rpm related
like an AFC or GCC as it is load
related. If I'd change the mixture by +2%
I'd see 2% higher air flow
reading. But the 2% are still the same if the car
is still under full load.
And I will then also see 2% more boost and with the
reference point I will
then have to reduce the factor by 2% to get the same
boost at the points as
measured. This compensates the change on the ARC and
again shows the same
curve. BTW, the air flow did only show an increase up to
6000 rpm. After
that it stayed constant, i.e. the consumption increase of the
engine and the
loss of the turbo where the same. I can't wait to see a curve
with larger
turbos as then the flow should still grow.
Yes, I also
gave me the same question after the curve has been drawn the
first time. It
wasn't just flat enough and I couldn't do anything against
the problem when
boost falls below 0 (vacuum). But the interesting area is
under WOT and full
load (i.e. 3rd or 4th gear). But I took several runs I
made and always got
the same results. Of course, the less resolution I took,
the flatter the
curve got.
As said, I'll do "real" measures, although the data
used to calculate boost
IS real, and I will compare the results. I just hope
that I'll be able to
record rpm too soon :)
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
PS: Damn, it's hard to explain this stuff not in my language so please
bear
with me when I use the wrong words or longer senstences to draw a
picture.
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 12 May 2000 01:52:23 +0200
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: ARC2 problem
Matt, as I understand, you are having the stock 360
injectors and "only"
idle problems, right ?
> I'm
thinking mine is somehow defective. I can't get it to dither the
A/F
ratio at idle. It is full rich all the time or the motor quits (or
cycles
RPM up/down while the ISC tries to stabilize idle and keep the car
running).
Yes, typically super-rich condition.
> I've
adjusted low/mid/high/accell all to various values with no
positive
results. I've adjusted the TPS to read .450v at idle, no
difference there.
The TPS sounds good but you definitely changed way too
much.
The simpliest method is to set L,M,H to 0 (middle) and A to 0 (to
the left).
I doubt the car starts so turn back mid until you can get it
running (maybe
with the help of the gas pedal). If it idles crappy, try to
adjust M until
each change will cause a worser idle.
If M is set, go
to low and try to enrich it until idle is fine. It will be
higher and when
you hit the gas it will die but this is to determine if
everything works
well.
If L is set, turn up A one click and it will go super rich again.
But now
simply turn back L (slowly, give teh ECU time to learn) until it
starts
sweeping.
With this, the car is drievable and H must only be
set for the high boost
behaviour.
Fine tuning is then with slowly
inceasing rpm from idle to 3000. Maybe here
you have to adjust M one click
more or less and to compensate with L. Goal
is to achieve a smooth behaviour
from idle up to 3k. It's possible that idle
is now off but this is what A is
for this purpose.
BTW, what ECU pin did you connect the Yellow wire
??
Hope this helps a little (well, I guess the guys who sold you the
stuff have
already explained this to you, did they
??)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 May 2000 19:29:44 -0400
From: Mark <
pagan@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Water injection mounting..
At 02:41 PM 5/11/00 -0700, Geoff Mohler
wrote:
>*laugh*
>
>So just how did you do
that?
>
>
<snip>
Well, interestingly enough I got a
2" pipe plug. It is really just 2
pieces of metal with a rubbery
gasket in the middle and a stud with a wing
nut on top. Rather simple
idea, tighten the nut the pieces of metal close
together squashing the gasket
(washer thing). This causes it to get bigger
and seal up tight.
Air tight. In fact, when testing the top my friend and
I put a air hose
in the line coming out of the pump to see if the rest of
the washer bottle
was air tight. We regulated the line at 20 psi (since I
don't really
think I would put more than that in it) and viola, it held.
The interesting
thing is that we grabbed the wrong air line in the garage
and got one that
was unregulated. We put about 165 psi of pressure in that
tank.
It swelled like a balloon, but quickly shrunk back down. The good
news
is, no air leak :).
BTW, the 2" pipe plug gasket is too big.
We shrank mine down with a belt
sander. Very messy.
Tank works
great!
Mark
'93 R/T TT
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
End
of team3s V1 #133
*********************