team3s             Wednesday, May 10 2000             Volume 01 : Number 131




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Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 08:26:53 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ARC question.

Mikael Åkesson wrote:

> The ARC is a hot wire MAF, Right?

According to the Split Second website, Yes.

- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 08:53:44 -0700
From: "Jose Soriano" <amahoser@linkline.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: IC Upgrades

WhenI first had the FMIC on the car I paid close attention to the water temp
guage. I never saw an appreciable difference between when the car had the
stock system and now.  I ran my car HARD on a really hot day at Willow
Springs Raceway last year with the stock intercooler. One thing that
surpised me was the temp needle NEVER swung  past center... what I normally
see in normal street driving! So I'm pretty sure that the FMIC won't cause
any huge problem at the track. When my car is ready (acohol injection, roll
bar/cage, $$$$ in the bank for motor or tranny....), i'll run the car on the
track... both drag and road race and we'll see for sure!

Since someone asked, I threw my front bumper on the scale. Came in weighing
a whopping 24 lbs. Not a huge loss but oh well.


Jose Soriano
visit my Stealth site at www.3si.org/amahoser



- ----- Original Message -----
From: <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To: <amahoser@linkline.com>; <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 11:47 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: IC Upgrades


> Jose:
>
> Ive been getting static from Alamo..that the FMIC causes overheating
problems
> while racing. (airflow issue)
>
> Comments?
>
> I dont think it would be _that_ much of an issue, but I thought I would
ask an
> actual user.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Im also looking for input on the AFM mod you have as well.  Should/could
this be
> used with stock injectors and still be a nice calm car?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jose Soriano [mailto:amahoser@linkline.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 10:18 PM
> To: George Kuo; team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: IC Upgrades
>
>
> I did put a little writeup on my site but to summarize,
>
> I put a temp probe on the inlet and the outlet of the intercooler core. I
> wanted to see the effieciency of the intercooler itself. Max inlet temp
was
> around 200 degrees. During that particular run, outlet temp read 80
degrees.
> I didn't take an ambient reading as I didn't have a thermometer on me.
> However, I checked the weather report on the internet for my area and it
was
> 75 degrees. I know it could be a few degrees off but on other runs, max
> difference between ambient and outlet never exceeded 10 degrees. I do not
> have a pressure guage but if one of you guys have a couple, I have no
> problem installing it temporarly so I can get the readings you guys want.
As
> far as putting a sh*tload of probes all over the intercooler plumbing,
sorry
> guys, that's out! The piping ain't cheap and I don't want a ton of holes
> that have to be welded shut. Sorry.
>
>
> Jose Soriano
> visit my Stealth site at www.3si.org/amahoser
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Kuo" <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
> To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 3:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: IC Upgrades
>
>
> > Jose has collected the data you are looking for.  I'm
> > not sure if its on his site.. but I'm sure he will
> > jump in soon when he reads this thread.
> >
> > I believe he got the inlet pipe to 200+ degrees and
> > the outlet pipe was only 5 degree above outside
> > temperture.. probably need his confirmation on this..
> >
> > --- Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Does someone want to share some **real** data
> > > concerning
> > > intercooler efficiency so we can make an objective
> > > evaluation on
> > > which is best? We need temperature and pressure
> > > right before and
> > > right after the IC itself. My apologies to the list
> > > if this
> > > information is readily available and I'm just
> > > uninformed. I have
> > > custom side mounts from Brian L.(then GT-Alley) that
> > > are about
> > > twice the size of stock. I would guess since the
> > > cooling area is
> > > much larger they would have to be more efficient
> > > than stock.
> > > When I asked Brian about efficiency, he said he had
> > > not made the
> > > required measurements. I am quite willing to do this
> > > myself for
> > > my car as soon as I can purchase and install
> > > required pressure
> > > and temperature probes, not done yet of course. I
> > > imagine the
> > > front mounts may be a bit better than side mounts,
> > > but I for one
> > > am unwilling to give up the front bumper bar if that
> > > is
> > > required. Most definately, a highly efficient IC can
> > > be a much
> > > better upgrade than bigger turbos, up to a point of
> > > course.
> > >
> > > Jeff "waiting for real IC data" Lucius, 3SI #476
> > > Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified
> > >   --> http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo!
> > > Messenger.
> > > http://im.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > > ***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
> > http://im.yahoo.com/
> >
> > ***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
> >
>
>
> ***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
> ***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:25:23 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tire Pressure Monitoring System

- -----Original Message-----From: Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.com
>A separate division of the company I work for, is developing an
on-board
>tire pressure monitoring system called PSI (Pressure Safety
Information
- -------snip-------
>In it's current configuration, the system consists of 4
transmitter/sensors
>which replace the valve stems in each wheel, and a replacement
rear-view
- -------snip-------
>There are some downsides that the company is addressing, which is why
the
>system isn't yet on the market. The transmitter/sensors contain
batteries
>and are sealed units. The batteries are advertised to have a 5-year
life,
>but if one fails, the complete transmitter/sensor unit must be
replaced.
- -------snip-------

Add me to the list of those who are "interested" in purchasing a set.
And you might want to give your engineers some "food for thought" as
to how to overcome the battery failure problem...  With all the true
"tech-heads" on the Team3S list, we should be able to solve your
company's dilemma in about 72 hrs :-) .  (I'm taking a chance here,
hoping this doesn't turn into an endless thread, but I want a public
record of "whose idea it was" if they adopt my technology!):

1>  Incorporate a trickle charger circuit based on existing technology
used in self-winding watches--  Some of the high end Swiss watches use
batteries *and* self-wind charger mechanisms, and are on the same
order of miniaturization as the valve stems.

2>  Create a new trickle charger circuit based on a tiny, weighted,
arm-around-brush (or similar) "engine", similar to that of an
alternator--  With all the rotational energy found in a spinning tire,
there should be enough untapped power in there to operate a blender.

3>  Slightly magnetize two or more of the rotators on a miniature
gyroscope to create a trickle charge--  While they're at it they can
send back info to the mirror (?) receiver as to when that wheel is out
of line...

...and...  ;-)

d>  If too much weight is added, balance the other side of the wheel
with a small computer that sends back info on tire temperature,
alignment, type of road surface, etc.--  They could base such a system
on the inexpensive Celeron chip, which isn't good for much else
anyway...  ;-)

Seriously again, while you're at it, John, you might want to ask your
company engineers if there is a way to set the units to read pressure
drops from higher-than-normal tire pressures...  A lot of us speed
freaks and racers are running 10+ psi *more* than what's recommended on
the tire.

Best,

Forrest







***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 12:48:42 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tire Pressure Monitoring System

>to how to overcome the battery failure problem...  With all the true
>"tech-heads" on the Team3S list, we should be able to solve your
>company's dilemma in about 72 hrs :-) .

Rig up a small turbine-powered generator that operates off tire pressure.
Whenever the battery needs to be recharged, it just bleeds enough air out
of the tire to run the turbine and charge itself back up. Then, it sounds
the alarm that the tire is losing air. It'll drive the owner nuts trying to
figure out where all the leaks are, and he'll spend a fortune at the local
tire store.

Fred's Tire Store



***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:02:00 +0300
From: "Oleg-Telia" <Oleg@telia.lv>
Subject: Team3S: low oil pressure

Today the car was in dealership and they checked oil pressure. It was REALLY
LOW - 8 psi when idle and approx. 8-13 psi at 3k rpm. Interesting thing is,
that when the engine is cold, the pressure is slightly lower than normal,
but when it's hot, pressure fall to the bottom.
The gauge is OK. The oil was Castrol RS, changed 500 miles before.
Dealership changed both oil and filter - the pressure was still low.
Mechanics have no idea about this situation and tomorrow will dissassemble
to take off oil pump.

Best,
Oleg.
94'VR4



> Today I was experiencing extremely low oil pressure: one line from bottom
> with 3-4 k rpm. After some time reading came back to normal, after a while
> it was low again. It happened with a warm engine. Any ideas about the
fault?
> Should the red light come on when the pressure is one line from the
bottom?
> When starting engine, red light is off in the same second.
> I searched in archives, but found only messages about low oil pressure
when
> idle. (When idle the reading is two lines from bottom, it should be
normal?)
>
> Best,
> Oleg Reznik,
> 94'VR4.



***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 13:31:36 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Team3S: Calculated boost behaviour with 13g

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Ok, since we cannot log boost completely with the datalogger or any device I
thought of calculating boost for analysing purposes upon the measured data
like rpm and air flow frequency read by the ECU. Unfortunately, with small
injectors, the air flow signal is maxed out at around 1260Hz and don't go
higher. Correctly said, the data sent by the ECU doesn't contain higher
values. Now with the 720cc installed the frequency is half and now do NOT
exceed the highest value (at least around 15psi). This now enables me to use
the recorded values for the calculation (hurray !!)

For this I simply pressed the reset button on the DSBC at 4000rpm and got a
reference boost there. This then gave me the divider I need to get the
correct factor to calculate boost out of the simple air-flow formula. So far
it seems that this works pretty good although below 8 psi it seems not to be
correct (also no vacuum of course). But for reading the turbos boost
behaviour the intersting range is between 3000 and 7000 rpm where we like to
know how fast they fall off. I put the recorded data and formula together
and the result looks like the curve the S-AVC-R2 can draw on its display.

The result is shown in the attached pic (gif,15kB). Please note that this
was on an slightly uphill road, with the engine under full load in 3rd gear.
I floored at 2500 up to 6900 (glowing brakes afterwards). Boost was set to
around 15 psi (DSBC). This resulted in lower boost in the lower rpm area as
I usually do have 14 psi at 3200 rpm.Therefore, the interesting part is the
fall off after 4500 rpm. With this data we can see that the 13g fall down to
13.4psi at 6000 rpm. This is about 2.5 psi more than the 9b but I can't say
for sure.

Therefore I badly need another datalog from a 3s with 720cc too BUT stock 9b
or any other turbos. Please send me a similar log with flooring the car
under full load from 2000 - 7000. I know this is hard to do but should be
possible on a highway ;-)

If anyone is interested in the Excel (CSV) files just drop me a mail and I
send it to you.

Roger
93'3000GT TT


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- ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BFBA84.1077CF80--


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:24:38 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: IC Upgrade Efficiency

I would sure like to see some more data on IC efficiency.
To remove the "heat sink" effect, where the starts-out-cold
intercooler has to cool air for maybe 10-15 seconds or so
and thus alot of the cooling can come from the simple MASS
of the cold metal, and NOT entirely from the "INTERCOOLING"
efficiency of the air blowing through the core and doing the
job...

You'd have to set a boost value (the higher the better, as that makes
more heat); and just HOLD THAT BOOST VALUE at some
vehicle speed, say 60mph, by having the THROTTLE FLOORED
while HOLDING THE FOOTBRAKE so engine rpm and boost
remain constant, (wearing your brakes plenty)
hold THIS for say 20-30 seconds to EQUILIBRATE the system
and produce TRUE efficiency rating of the intercooler system.

Should specify which turbos; what car speed; rpm; boost;
which IC core; how mounted/sealed to frontend; how long
you held the value; and maybe based on how fast temp at
outlet was curving upward by the time you had to stop,
you could extrapolate where it would end up at at steady-state.

Just running up on acceleration for 15 seconds at unspecified
speed/boost/rpm (turbo airflow) values is not enough information.  If
going to all the
trouble of a temp sensor before and after IC, that is great!--but
PUSH that IC with a HARD test (I'd like to see 20 psi at
5000rpm for 20 seconds at 60mph or so, but at least TRY to do it as long
as
possible until brakes overheat--may be less than 20 secs).
If smaller turbos, try 15psi at 4500 or some such, just specify.
I suspect the huge FMIC cores now popular will do well,
but am not sure about taking 20 psi = 320 Fahrenheit air and
cooling it to 5 F above ambient continuously (such as roadcourse).

Turbo outlet temperatures at boost values:
15psi = 275F;  20psi = 320F;  25psi = 360F, all at 70% compressor
efficiency, for reference comparison.

Jack Tertadian

[snips]:
Jeff Lucius wrote:

> numbers below suggest incredible 96% intercooler
> efficiency, IE = (200-80) / (200-75). I think it would be hard
> to beat that!
> Jeff Lucius
>
> From: "Jose Soriano" <amahoser@linkline.com>
> I put a temp probe on inlet/outlet of
> intercooler core to see efficiency. Max inlet temp 200 degrees.
> outlet temp 80 degrees; ambient was 75 degrees.
> on other runs, max difference between ambient and outlet
> never exceeded 10 degrees. I do not have a pressure guage.
> Jose Soriano


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:01:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: IC Upgrade Efficiency

Boy I agree with you Jack about needing more testing/data. I
might suggest that we take the intercoolers off the cars to
eliminate those variables (piping, airflow ducting, engine vol.
eff., turbo eff., etc.). If we could find funding (a sponsor?)
and some volunteers, it probably would not be too difficult to
build something to control and monitor the air going through and
across the IC - cardboard, dryer hose, leaf blowers, hair
dryers, yard-type meteorological stations, etc. Even the
heatsink effect you talk about could be monitored. If the
"device" can be easily disassembled for boxing up, we could ship
it to different members/shops to test their intercoolers. Just a
thought.

PS. Has someone (besides non-automotive IC manufacturers) done
this already?

PPS. You're right - 200º F isn't very warm for turbo outlet so
boost must not have been very high. (<ALT-167> for º)

Jeff Lucius, 3SI #476
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified
  --> http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "xwing" <xwing@execpc.com>
To: "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>; <stealth@starnet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:24 AM
Subject: Team3S: Re: IC Upgrade Efficiency

I would sure like to see some more data on IC efficiency.
To remove the "heat sink" effect, where the starts-out-cold
intercooler has to cool air for maybe 10-15 seconds or so
and thus alot of the cooling can come from the simple MASS
of the cold metal, and NOT entirely from the "INTERCOOLING"
efficiency of the air blowing through the core and doing the
job...

You'd have to set a boost value (the higher the better, as that
makes more heat); and just HOLD THAT BOOST VALUE at some vehicle
speed, say 60mph, by having the THROTTLE FLOORED while HOLDING
THE FOOTBRAKE so engine rpm and boost remain constant, (wearing
your brakes plenty) hold THIS for say 20-30 seconds to
EQUILIBRATE the system and produce TRUE efficiency rating of the
intercooler system.

Should specify which turbos; what car speed; rpm; boost;
which IC core; how mounted/sealed to frontend; how long
you held the value; and maybe based on how fast temp at
outlet was curving upward by the time you had to stop,
you could extrapolate where it would end up at at steady-state.

Just running up on acceleration for 15 seconds at unspecified
speed/boost/rpm (turbo airflow) values is not enough
information.  If going to all the trouble of a temp sensor
before and after IC, that is great!--but PUSH that IC with a
HARD test (I'd like to see 20 psi at 5000rpm for 20 seconds at
60mph or so, but at least TRY to do it as long as possible until
brakes overheat--may be less than 20 secs). If smaller turbos,
try 15psi at 4500 or some such, just specify. I suspect the huge
FMIC cores now popular will do well, but am not sure about
taking 20 psi = 320 Fahrenheit air and cooling it to 5 F above
ambient continuously (such as roadcourse).

Turbo outlet temperatures at boost values:
15psi = 275F;  20psi = 320F;  25psi = 360F, all at 70%
compressor
efficiency, for reference comparison.

Jack Tertadian

[snips]:
Jeff Lucius wrote:

> numbers below suggest incredible 96% intercooler
> efficiency, IE = (200-80) / (200-75). I think it would be hard
> to beat that!
> Jeff Lucius
>
> From: "Jose Soriano" <amahoser@linkline.com>
> I put a temp probe on inlet/outlet of
> intercooler core to see efficiency. Max inlet temp 200
degrees.
> outlet temp 80 degrees; ambient was 75 degrees.
> on other runs, max difference between ambient and outlet
> never exceeded 10 degrees. I do not have a pressure guage.
> Jose Soriano

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***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:15:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Calculated boost behaviour with 13g

Roger,

I will be happy to send logs as soon as I can get my 720s in
(waiting on datalogger cable repair before continuing testing of
ARC2 then 720s). Very interesting data BTW. I can see now I may
have to sell my EVC IV and get a BC with data-recording. Also, I
wasn't aware Team3S lets us use attachments; I like that.

Jeff Lucius

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:31 AM
Subject: Team3S: Calculated boost behaviour with 13g

<snip>
Therefore I badly need another datalog from a 3s with 720cc too
BUT stock 9b or any other turbos. Please send me a similar log
with flooring the car under full load from 2000 - 7000. I know
this is hard to do but should be possible on a highway ;-)
<snip>

Roger
93'3000GT TT

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***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:24:29 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Calculated boost behaviour with 13g

> I will be happy to send logs as soon as I can get my 720s in
> (waiting on datalogger cable repair before continuing testing of
> ARC2 then 720s).

What have you done to the cable ??

> Very interesting data BTW. I can see now I may
> have to sell my EVC IV and get a BC with data-recording.

Well, the AVC-R2 does this but you cannot get the data out of the display
( The way with the datalogger works pretty good for me now. I will also use
my hardware logger soon to record the data and will then include them into
my sheets. Hope to be able to find the correct formula ;-)

> Also, I wasn't aware Team3S lets us use attachments; I like that.

We do accept pics and illustrations, but only very small ones ! I had no
time to upload it and therefore attached it. Usually I also use links to my
homepage.

Roger
93'3000GT TT


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:32:22 EDT
From: DSMDealer1@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: FS: '92 30KGT VR4 (18,000 miles)

    This is the 1st and last posting for my car on here.  I won't waste the
space again.  I'm currently selling my silver/dk.grey leather '92 3000GT VR4.
The car is in immaculate condition, and has 18,381 original miles on it.  It
has never been hit, repainted, modified or abused (I have other cars for
that).  I bought it as a "Sunday Car"/toy, but recently bought a house and
would like to free up some cash to finish my Galant VR4, and do some work on
the house/garage. The car is loaded as most 3000GT VR4s are, and is in great
running condition (of course...only having 18K on it).  I started advertising
locally in the Philadelphia area this week, and have gotten quite a few
responses.  However, 2 of the people had bad credit and couldn't get a loan,
another has a close-to-demolished '96 3KGT VR4 that he neglects and I would
prefer not to sell it to him.  I also received a call last night from another
3KGT enthusiast locally who has a friend who may be interested in the car. 
Until I have a deposit in my hand, the car is up for grabs.  I would prefer
to sell it to someone who will appreciate/maintain the car, and am pretty
confident that people on this list would do so.  The car is located in the
Philadelphia, PA area.  Selling price is set low @ $17,900firm for
no-haggling sale.  Serious Inquiries only please, as I have already gotten a
lot of calls/e-mails from tire kickers.  Thanks, and good luck with your cars
in the future!  I plan on staying on this list for some time yet, as these
cars do still interest me.  It's just that right now, I don't need a $20,000
car sitting in my garage unused 90% of the time. 

Josh
'91 Galant VR4
'92 3000GT VR4
'90 Eclipse GSX

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:49:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: TMO cable (was - Calculated boost behaviour with 13g)

NOTE: this response sent to the list because of possible
interest in the TMO logger.

Hi Roger,

I have not had good luck with the cable. When I first received
it last year it quit working pretty soon. I suspected static
shock or broken wire, but could not confirm this by inspecting
the unit (I'm sure you've looked inside also). Todd was happy to
fix it and said that he installed a more static-resistant
component. I'm not sure if he said that was the problem though.
I had no more problems till 2 weeks ago. It worked one day then
the next it didn't. I have been very careful about touching
metal and verified that my COM port was working (my external
modem is attached to it). I am waiting to get the cable back and
find out what was wrong. I'll feel pretty stupid if it was
operator error :)

If I remember correctly, you were working on a replacement for
the TMO. Is that project still on?

Jeff Lucius

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Calculated boost behaviour with 13g

> I will be happy to send logs as soon as I can get my 720s in
> (waiting on datalogger cable repair before continuing testing
> of ARC2 then 720s).

What have you done to the cable ??

Roger
93'3000GT TT

__________________________________________________
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Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
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***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:05:37 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: AWD Racing drivers  - Read please

The below message is self explanatory. ( was forwarded to me by Adam Weltz)
I regrettable had to delete Adams answer to this due to expletives.
I agree that putting our AWD cars against back 1/2 Rear Wheel Drive or
tube frame cars is not a fair competition for our average AWD car.
Please send your opinion to GSXCOP95@aol.com
Arty 91 VR-4

In a message dated 5/10/00 2:38:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GSXCOP95 writes:

<< RECENTLY I RACED AT A NIRA EVENT IN ENGLISHTOWN, NJ ON MAY 7. I HAD TO RUN
AGAINST 8/9 SECOND ROTARY ENGINE CARS. PRO COMP WAS THE ONLY CLASS THEY COULD
PUT ME IN DO TO THEIR RULES. I HAVE COMPLAINED TO NIRA [THEIR RESPONSE BELOW]
MOST OF THE AWD RACERS ARE STILL ABLE TO RUN IN THE SPORTSMAN CLASS BUT IF
ANY OF YOU PLAN TO GO PRO THIS IS A PROBLEM YOU WILL RUN INTO. I SEND THIS TO
YOU SO THAT YOU CAN EXPRESS YOUR OPINIONS. IT SEEMS THE IMPORT RACES ARE
GEARED MORE TOWARDS HONDAS, AND THE DSM'S ARE BEING WEEDED OUT. AS MOST OF
YA'LL KNOW NIRA DID AWAY WITH THE AWD CLASS, THIS WAS THE START OF OUR
DESTRUCTION. IF THERE ARE ENOUGH VOICES I THINK WE CAN GET IT BACK, AT LEAST
IN THE SPORTSMAN CLASS.[OF COURSE I'LL STAY PRO] ANY THOUGHT OR OPINION TO
NIRA WOULD LET THEM KNOW WE CARE. IF NOT THESE ROTARIES WILL WALK AWAY WITH
THE WINNINGS EVERYTIME. LETS GET A CLASS MADE UP THAT WILL MAKE IT MORE
COMPETETIVE. NIRA HAS SAID THEY ARE THINKING OF PUTTING AWD IN THE PRO FWD.
THIS WAS RECOMMENDED IN THE VERY BEGINNING BY JACK CULOTTA OF EXTREME
MOTORSPORTS. THANK YOU !!!

NIRA'S RESPONSE ;
Your concerns are quite valid.Rule changes are coming for July 1, as we
promised in the rulebooks...however, Steph's car belongs in Pro Comp, no
doubt. The AWD guys get screwed in our rules....we are talking about placing
them into Pro FWD, but they'd have to be unibody cars, full body on DOT
tires...check back by June 15, a decision will be made...this CANNOT
continue!! Plus, we are bumping dual power adder rotaries into Pro Import and
raising the minimum weight of Pro Comp pre-1984 to 2100 lbs....we've long
known that there's no good way to handle the AWD cars, but by the same token,
only 3 cars are actively competing in our series...let's hope our rules
changes help that.
I LOOKED AT THE RULES AND STEPHEN PAPADAKIS CAR IS A TUBE CHASIS AND IS NOT
ALLOWED IN THE PRO COMP CLASS

THIS IS FROM LEN MONSERRAT ;
  I am writing you to ask your opinion on the classification that we
currently land in.  Personally, I disagree with NIRA placing us together
with cars that are rear wheel drive AND back-halved.  That is a proven drag
race combination which clearly has the most potential given the proper
horsepower.  Our AWD drivetrains are much weaker in comparison, and should
not be running in the same class.

I believe that both the Signal Auto Skyline and Steph's tube frame civic are
fair competition.  The skyline, being a full unibody and the the tube frame
FWD being disadvantaged by having only the front wheels driving.

I spoke with Ron Lee from Mackin Industries, associated with the Signal Auto
group, and he also believes that there should be a change.  He has spoken to
Craig Lieberman, however, I am not aware of the details.  I will be speaking
with Craig today.

I also spoke with Steph Papadakis while in the staging lanes and he
expressed that there may be a change for 2001 which will put tube frame FWD
in a separate class, not the pro FWD class (which seems to be the best
competition in the sport right now).  I think we should make a bid to join
in on that separate class and leave the back-halved RWD cars alone.

I would like to know what you think.

If you could copy this to any & all other pro AWD drivers, we can get more
opinions on the subject. >>

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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