team3s             Sunday, April 30 2000             Volume 01 : Number 120




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Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:09:35 -0400
From: "Bob_Rand" <Bob_Rand@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ground control adjustable springs

Hey Kyle,  I have the GC springs with stock struts.  Have been told the Gabs
are better, but more expensive.

I have 550lb front 325lb rear springs.
The ride is ok, but; front end seems to bounce a bit on bad roads unless you
go into sport mode. The cornering is much improved.

Bob
93 Stealth TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Kyle Patton <smite@home.com>
>
> I was just wondering if anyone here has the groundcontrol adjustable
springs
> on their car? How much leeway do I get in terms of lowering? I was also
> wondering if I could pair these with the stock shocks or if I would be
much
> better off with Koni's or Gab's. >
> ***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>




***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 07:51:21 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Fw: Team3S: ground control adjustable springs

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Kyle



> I was just wondering if anyone here has the groundcontrol adjustable springs
> on their car? How much leeway do I get in terms of lowering?


I have the GC coilover setup with camber plates and Gab struts ---- I can adjust
mine over a range of about 4". The car is currently lowered about 1 1/2" and
could be lowered another 1 1/2" or so. However, some modification to the strut is
required to get the full range of adjustment from the spring perches.
The struts [ stock and Gab ] have an oversized spring perch which prevents the
adjusting color from being lowered all the way. If you look at the attached picture
you'll see that I removed the stock perch and you can get a feel for how much
adjustment is available. The gold anodized adjustment collar is what raises or
lowers the height of the car. Any additional lowering results in an unacceptablely
small amount of shock travel --- you end up hitting the bump stops even on small
bumps. An additional problem with lowering the car even further is that the
adjustment collar will start to interfer with over sized tires ---- I have 255s on my
car and when I lowered it another 1" the collar was within a 1/10" of the sidewall.

===========================================================
I was also
> wondering if I could pair these with the stock shocks or if I would be much
> better off with Koni's or Gab's.

Don't know about the Konis but the Gabs are great --- gets a little harsh at max
settings but not unbearable, it depends on what you want from the car.
====================================================
  If there is anyone here in the Bay Area who
> has them, it would be much appreciated if they could suggest a reputable
> shop where I could have them installed. Thanks.

Not a clue ---- but a small shop is more likely to want to mess with a non
standard installation.



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***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:39:39 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Team3S: ground control adjustable springs

>Any additional lowering results in an unacceptablely
>small amount of shock travel --- you end up hitting the bump stops even on
small
>bumps.

What bump stops? You got bump stops? We took off the bump stops per Ground
Control's instructions with the camber plate installation..

Yesterday, I went to my favorite corner to try out the new settings after
installing the GC camber plates (1 deg  neg camber, etc). This is an exit
ramp off a four-lane highway to the right, leading to a one-lane ramp to
the left that goes over the 4-lane (a big long question-mark-shaped turn).
It's a 100 mph turn in a stock VR4. Yesterday, I entered it at about 130
mph, feeling very comfortable, but then halfway through it I hit a bunch of
undulations in the pavement that I didn't know were there before, and the
car started to pitch violently, so I backed down. It went through at 110
smoothly, but the bouncing at higher speeds was kinda scary. I'm wondering
if this is an indication of the car being too low with not enough shock
travel (as Jim says) or if the undulations are just not as noticeable at
slow speeds. (I always thought this was a completely smooth turn.}

Thanks for the pointer, Jim. I am going to watch to see if such a problem
shows up again. If so, it gives me another reason to raise it up an inch or
so. Right now, I am running a ride height of 26 in. from the ground to the
fender lip on the front. Any other open trackers running that low?

>Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\coilover.jpg"
>
This is a great photo! It clearly shows Brad's "Big Red" Porsche turbo
brake conversion, SS brake lines, AND the GC conversion. Somebody oughta
borrow this photo to illustrate a how-to section on brakes & suspension. It
shows everything you need!

But I don't see any brake ducts. Do you run open track events without
cooling ducts?.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4/low, low, low!

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 15:06:17 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Team3S: ground control adjustable springs

Merritt

> >Any additional lowering results in an unacceptable
> >small amount of shock travel --- you end up hitting the bump stops even on
> small
> >bumps.
>
> What bump stops? You got bump stops? We took off the bump stops per Ground
> Control's instructions with the camber plate installation..

Ground control apparently assumed I was of superior intellect and decided
I didn't need instructions. I can't imagine not having  a stop [ I cut mine in 1/2 ].
The travel on the lowered setup is minimal at best, I consider it one of the
shortfalls of the GC/Gab setup. A proper system would have a short bodied
strut to compensate for the lowering.
Without the bumpstop you go from a spring rate of 600# per inch to around
one million pounds per inch [ steel on steel don't give much ], the bump stop
gives you about an inch of 1000# per inch travel.
=======================================================
, I entered it at about 130
> mph, feeling very comfortable, but then halfway through it I hit a bunch of
> undulations in the pavement that I didn't know were there before, and the
> car started to pitch violently, so I backed down. It went through at 110
> smoothly, but the bouncing at higher speeds was kinda scary.

Serves you right --- that was the cornering Gods way of telling you to slow
down you're driving TFF [ Too F------ Fast ]
===================================================
> Thanks for the pointer, Jim. I am going to watch to see if such a problem
> shows up again. If so, it gives me another reason to raise it up an inch or
> so. Right now, I am running a ride height of 26 in. from the ground to the
> fender lip on the front. Any other open trackers running that low?

I am also running 26" at the front. One trick is to put a tie wrap around the
shaft of the strut, drive around for a while and see if the wrap is pushed to
the top of the shaft. If It's all the way up you need bump stops.
======================================================

> But I don't see any brake ducts. Do you run open track events without
> cooling ducts?.

Brake ducts, we don't need no stinking brake ducts !!!!

With the lowered car I can't find room --- when I install my FMIC I'll
use the old IC openings to run ducts.
Besides if I continue to run Willow springs I don't need brakes [see my
Willow Springs racing post ].


   Jim Berry  >>>          93 stealth TT ---- "arrest me red"
                       K&N FIPK -- Magnicore/.034" --- Blitz SSBC
                               --- GAB struts --- Stillen SS lines ---
                     GC/Eibach  600# F/350# R --- GC caster/camber plate
                             Yokohama  AVS  sport  255x40x17
                    Porsche/Brembo [ big red ] brakes --- KVR 315mm rotors
                              Roadrace engineering rear  strut tower
                       Gtech --- 0-60 = 4.75 -- 1/4 = 13.3 @ 110 mph


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 15:12:48 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fuel Pump Comparisons - Update

Arty

.
>
> I'm adding one more fuel pump to this topic that I have never seen talked
> about

It's the Weldon A2005-C expensive but you'll see why.
> Check the specifications & flow rates in the very last column. Two of these
> may be overkill but that's the setup.
> Arty 91 VR-4

I looked around the web and saw the pump advertised --- what is the price ??
and is it designed for continuous duty or is it a drag racing pump.

Jim Berry        BTW whats the condition of your project --- soon or what ??
                      and when are you going to give us an update on the list of
                      mods, whats the weight etc.


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:20:44 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Team3S: ground control adjustable springs

>Ground control apparently assumed I was of superior intellect and decided
>I didn't need instructions. I can't imagine not having a stop [ I cut mine
in 1/2 ].

I was changing over to the race tires today, and I peered up in there to
contemplate the lack of a bump stop. I don't see any reason why I couldn't
stick the bump stop back in there, between the top spring perch and the
caster plate. Think I'll do just that next time it goes in for an
alignment. Like, in two weeks, after we run the Marshalltown track, check
tire temps with the pryometer, and decide what the final camber setting
oughta be.

>Brake ducts, we don't need no stinking brake ducts !!!!
>With the lowered car I can't find room

I re-installed the brake ducts for the autocross tomorrow. I'll take them
off for street use. I cut them down by half, so they only stick down about
1.5 in. under the front valence (through the 4x6 access holes on both sides
of the air dam). I also attached one to the top and back of the lower
control arm (where the big 1-in. hole is) and ran a duct to the rear of the
front rotor. I don't know how much air passes over the top of the control
arm, but I'm grabbing what I can and routing it to the rotor.

Yesterday,. I finally found a shop here in Iowa who has a basic
understanding of road racing, and actually understood what I wanted when I
asked if he could find me some NASCAR air blowers. It seems that NASCAR
trucks use small air blowers to force air through 2.5 in. ducts to cool the
brakes. That would solve the pickup problem, sho' nuff.

>--- when I install my FMIC I'll
>use the old IC openings to run ducts.

FMIC? For open tracking?. O tell me more, trail-breaker. How you gonna keep
the water temp down after you block the furshlugginer radiator?

Rich/old poop

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:13:31 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: RE: Fw: Team3S: ground control adjustable springs

Well, no other high-perf. turbo cars have a problem with an FMIC that im aware
of.

Its not that bad of a blockage or heat sink..much less heat to draw off than
say..a radiator of AC system.

:-----Original Message-----
:From: Merritt [mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
:Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:21 PM
:To: Jim Berry; Kyle Patton; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
:Subject: Re: Fw: Team3S: ground control adjustable springs
:
:
:>Ground control apparently assumed I was of superior intellect
:and decided
:>I didn't need instructions. I can't imagine not having a stop
:[ I cut mine
:in 1/2 ].
:
:I was changing over to the race tires today, and I peered up
:in there to
:contemplate the lack of a bump stop. I don't see any reason
:why I couldn't
:stick the bump stop back in there, between the top spring perch and the
:caster plate. Think I'll do just that next time it goes in for an
:alignment. Like, in two weeks, after we run the Marshalltown
:track, check
:tire temps with the pryometer, and decide what the final camber setting
:oughta be.
:
:>Brake ducts, we don't need no stinking brake ducts !!!!
:>With the lowered car I can't find room
:
:I re-installed the brake ducts for the autocross tomorrow.
:I'll take them
:off for street use. I cut them down by half, so they only
:stick down about
:1.5 in. under the front valence (through the 4x6 access holes
:on both sides
:of the air dam). I also attached one to the top and back of the lower
:control arm (where the big 1-in. hole is) and ran a duct to
:the rear of the
:front rotor. I don't know how much air passes over the top of
:the control
:arm, but I'm grabbing what I can and routing it to the rotor.
:
:Yesterday,. I finally found a shop here in Iowa who has a basic
:understanding of road racing, and actually understood what I
:wanted when I
:asked if he could find me some NASCAR air blowers. It seems that NASCAR
:trucks use small air blowers to force air through 2.5 in.
:ducts to cool the
:brakes. That would solve the pickup problem, sho' nuff.
:
:>--- when I install my FMIC I'll
:>use the old IC openings to run ducts.
:
:FMIC? For open tracking?. O tell me more, trail-breaker. How
:you gonna keep
:the water temp down after you block the furshlugginer radiator?
:
:Rich/old poop

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:42:44 -0700
From: James Stephen Gula <gulajs@jmu.edu>
Subject: Team3S: ground control adjustable springs (Brad B. Read This)

> >--- when I install my FMIC I'll
> >use the old IC openings to run ducts.
>
> FMIC? For open tracking?. O tell me more, trail-breaker. How you gonna keep
> the water temp down after you block the furshlugginer radiator?

Underhood temps get a lot hotter with a FMIC since the radiator fans no
longer see cold air, so how do you guys with FMICs (Brad Bedell, and a
few others) fight the temps? Hood scoops I see as possibilities, or
raising the rear of the hood a good bit, but what else? And has anyone
tried oil coolers? I've seen them for 300Z's (really just cooling fins)
but never 3000GTs. But when looking through the mechanical book for the
GTs I noticed our cars already have a sort of oil liner cooler.
Thoughts?

- ------------------------------
- --Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula
- --http://gulajs.resnet.jmu.edu
- ------------------------------


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 10:31:43 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ground control adjustable springs (Brad B. Read This)

The only time I ever saw temp problems is when I was in traffic and then
"got on it" as soon as traffic cleared.  I've since addressed that issue.

A higher volume fan would also cure this problem.

The 3000 has a nice oil cooler, I'm pretty sure we won't see any/if much
benefit from upgrading it.  The oil cooler is located in the wheel well
under  the drivers side of the car


Brad
Check out my home page:  http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#  3612682

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of James Stephen Gula
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 11:43 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: ground control adjustable springs (Brad B. Read This)

> >--- when I install my FMIC I'll
> >use the old IC openings to run ducts.
>
> FMIC? For open tracking?. O tell me more, trail-breaker. How you gonna
keep
> the water temp down after you block the furshlugginer radiator?

Underhood temps get a lot hotter with a FMIC since the radiator fans no
longer see cold air, so how do you guys with FMICs (Brad Bedell, and a
few others) fight the temps? Hood scoops I see as possibilities, or
raising the rear of the hood a good bit, but what else? And has anyone
tried oil coolers? I've seen them for 300Z's (really just cooling fins)
but never 3000GTs. But when looking through the mechanical book for the
GTs I noticed our cars already have a sort of oil liner cooler.
Thoughts?

- ------------------------------
- --Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula
- --http://gulajs.resnet.jmu.edu
- ------------------------------


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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End of team3s V1 #120
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