team3s             Tuesday, April 25 2000             Volume 01 : Number 116




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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:34:37 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Seeking Midwest autocrossers

I've been having a wonderful off-list conversation with Geoff Mohler about
autocrossing, and the question came up: Who else runs autocrosses?  I know
some of us do open track, but how many on this list run autocrosses with
their Stealths or 3000GTs?.

Please come back off list to merritt@cedar-rapids.net. Maybe we could meet
up at an event somewhere, and kick some serious butt. At the very least, we
can share autocross secrets. I just learned from Geoff, for example, how to
set the rear toe out to make the car oversteer a little.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:20:09 -0400
From: Mark <pagan@siscom.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Trailer hitch

I suppose that this is hash and re-hash, but I do have a question that
maybe someone with some more physics experience than I can explain this a
little better.  In regards to the question of weight being the same whether
it is a trailer or friends and beer I offer this question.  Is there a
difference considering weight distribution?  Is there a *REAL* difference
between 600lbs of passengers vs. 600lbs of dead weight all dedicated to the
outside rear of the vehicle?  Is there any more/less strain on the
drivetrain because of the force gained by the trailer (it is on wheels and
outside the vehicle) vs. the force (any?) created by the individuals in the
car?  The dead weight on a scale is the same, but is it the same (same
effect) moving down the road?  Now the real question, does it matter? :)

Mark
'93 R/T TT

At 07:59 AM 4/24/00 -0700, Mohler, Jeff wrote:
>I was under the impression that putting the strain of a trailer on the
>car was not really a transmission issue.  The issue with a VR-4 or TT
>and a trailer(or so I've always heard) is the viscous coupling on the
>drivetrain,  it is not designed to have the extra strain on it at all
>times like you have while pulling a load. Forget the extra wear and tear
>on the clutch!  The braking system on the car is underdesigned
>anyway....add more weight/momentum for it to slow down.....you're
>begging to have your rotors turned or replaced frequently.
>---
>
>How is a 500lb trailer harder on the coupling, than 500lbs of beer and friends
>in the car with you?  Explain.
>
>I've pulled a few small trailers around with probably 1000 lbs of crap
>in it with my Wrangler...and I don't think I'd put that stress on a car
>that is ten times more expensive to repair and ten times more difficult
>to fix when it wears out....even at half that weight.
>---
>
>Explain the additional stress of trailer -vs- passenger weight.
>
>Face it,  Our cars should be ON trailers (to and from shows and or the
>track), not PULLING them.
>---
>
>Only for wussies.  We -drive- our car to the events we win.
>
>
>***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:46:40 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Trailer hitch

I suppose that this is hash and re-hash, but I do have a question that
maybe someone with some more physics experience than I can explain this a
little better.  In regards to the question of weight being the same whether
it is a trailer or friends and beer I offer this question.  Is there a
difference considering weight distribution?  Is there a *REAL* difference
between 600lbs of passengers vs. 600lbs of dead weight all dedicated to the
outside rear of the vehicle?  Is there any more/less strain on the
drivetrain because of the force gained by the trailer (it is on wheels and
outside the vehicle) vs. the force (any?) created by the individuals in the
car?  The dead weight on a scale is the same, but is it the same (same
effect) moving down the road?  Now the real question, does it matter? :)
- ---

Theres no difference, because your towing weight is NOT your tongue weight.

I try to keep the tongue weight to about 30-75lbs depending how I end up loading
the trailer.

..and that only affects how the car sits and rides.  The drivetrain still has to
pull the weight regardless of where its at in the 60/40 torque split.


And no..it doesnt.





Theres two types of sports car owners, theres the polishers (car is never dirty,
mint, perfect) and theres the drivers (agressive street driving doesnt count,
because it kills ppl).

There are forms in between the two, but usually they all gravitate to one type
or the other.


(Again, I think im gonna catch hell for this)

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:38:15 +0300
From: "Oleg-Telia" <Oleg@telia.lv>
Subject: Team3S: HKS intercoolers and pipes

Anyone ever had problems with installation of subj.?
Today I was going to install them, but with no results. Strengthenings
differ from stock ones. It is impossible to connect some pipes. Why???? I
thought it is direct replacement but service guys told that installation
could take few days. References and advices are welcome from everyone who
has experience with installation of HKS intercoolers and pipes.

Best regards,
Oleg Reznik





***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:36:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: HKS intercoolers and pipes

Dunno what would take a couple days..

My wife and I can have ICs and FULL plumbing out/cleaned and reinstalled
in about 2 hours in a 3S.  The HKS hardware cant possibly be THAT much
different.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
1995 Mitsu. VR4                      Plate: SPDTOY 2*     13.2@107
2000 Celica GT-S                     Plate: SPDTOY 3*     14.9@96Mph
1987 Supra Turbo                     Plate: SPDTOY 1*     13.38@104Mph
- ---------------------------------------------------
K&N FIPK,Spearco IC,APEXi N1 Exhaust*,Custom Hardpipe Kit,Walbro Fuel Pump,
Custom Aluminum-Alloy Flywheel,RC 3mm Overbore Throttle Body,
Mueller Lightweight Driveshaft*,HKS Downpipe*Lightweight Main Pulley**,
Full Redline Synthetic Oils & WW,AEM Cam Gear (Intake)*,Dave Hall AFPR,
Greddy Type-S BOV,Lightewight 16x8" Racing Wheels,HKS FCD,Greddy EGT Guage,
ST Swaybar Set,Eibach Pro Spring Set,Tokico-II TEMS Struts,
APEXi (new) AVC-R,Broward Dual-Friction Clutch*,BM150 Electric Fan
Porterfield Heat/Cryo treated Rotors, crossdrilled*,Porterfield R4-S Pads*,
Full DOT 5.1 Brake fluid,Goodridge SS Brake lines,Dunlop SP8000 tires.
Yes..all this on a stock HG too @75-80lbs..I ferget.
+++
*   On order
**  Being developed



***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: Turbo work

Should I spend the small bucks, and get my exhaust housings jet coated..or
not.

I know its "good" but "how good" is it on the turbos.

Thanks


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 07:40:30 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Supras, Racing, VR4 Roadcourse

Supras sure are fast after first gear; and handle well.
My buddy Paul's Supra with HKS twin 2835 turbo upgrade
is super fast, 11.7/130 mph on street tires at dragstrip
(though that sort of good takeoff is unusual for it).

On roadcourse at Road America for F-Body event
April 15-16 2000, he had problems because the turbos are
SO big, there is alot of turbo lag and he couldn't get out
of corners fast enough.  It was his first time at roadcourse,
so will get better and learn to row the transmission more.
He couldn't believe how fast I left him behind (remember,
there are CORNERS on Road America) though his car
is a little faster in straights, once on boost.

My 1994 VR4 did very well (as the 93 used to :)
I was surprised how well the stock 94+ brakes worked with
stock pads (initially) but not full straight blasts...
and I never got passed...first day was dry and fast; 2nd
day was wet, rainy and eating everybody alive with the
AWD!  The Vipers mostly stayed home that 2nd day
due to rain (waaaah) but in my rungroup, the neat red
GTS with white stripes was fun to play with.  Naturally
tried to see if I was REALLY hanging with him for
awhile...then had to let me by (was getting rude how
long it took him to admit it) and then it was
Sayonara, Viper-San!   ehehheeehehhehehheheh

Vipers.

Boy, do they  look  cool.
Finally, worthy opponents.

Jack Tertadian
"I'm Back"

Mark Hindelang wrote:

> articals ive read,
> supra is called "King Of The STraight Away".  More stock hp,

> it weighs less, its center of gravity is much lower than ours.
> i really don't see them as an enemy like i do the honda civics
> with the lowered down stuff, and the super rice look, but they're
> just in a different breed.
>
> Mark Jentilet wrote:
>
> > You don't say what year his Supra is.  Anything prior to  last
> > generation, Stealth will eat Supra for breakfast,
> > If new Supra Turbo, my money is on Supra, even on
> > twisty roads (unless rain or snow). August '93 issue Road
> > & Track had tuner car test. HKS 3000GT VR4 (larger turbos, larger
> > intercoolers, larger fuel injectors, VPC, exhaust, centerforce clutch,
> > was still substantially slower than STOCK
> > Supra turbo tested in the same issue.  Granted, R&T road testing techniques
> > do not take full advantage of the VR4s AWD, but fact is Supra weighs
> > a lot less than the VR4, makes as much or more power.  The Supra is
> > baaaad ride.  Too bad it looks so weird.
> > Mark Jentilet
>
> > Mark Hindelang wrote:
> > > i have a friend  with supra.
> > > i have stealth TT 92.. i have 400-420 hp
> > > we were just wondering who would take who on a race?
> > > i think i would take him in first gear and maybe second because of AWD,
> > > but after that i think he would sling shot in front of me... true??
> > > oh yeah, i think he also has about 400 hp.. or something like that..


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 07:49:58 -0500
From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Fw: [dfw] Warning about Michelin Pilot Sports

Thought this might be useful.  It came off a local Camaro/Firebird list, but
may apply to our cars if you guys are shopping for new tires.

jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Tyler" <jmtyler@airmail.net>
To: "CFCC" <cfcc-dfw@egroups.com>; "DFW Mailing List"
<dfw-f-body@f-body.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 1:49 AM
Subject: [dfw] Warning about Michelin Pilot Sports


> I know there has been a lot of talk lately about high performance tires,
> so I wanted to pass this along.
>
> My Viper came with Michelin Pilot MXX3's.  In 1999, the Viper's went to
> the new Michelin Pilot Sport.  It is supposed to be better in the rain,
> and be more forgiving by not having as sharp of a turn in as the MXX3.
>
> John Hennessey was running one of his cars in the Silver State Challenge
> when a sidewall came apart at 198mph.  Michellin claimed he should have
> raised the air pressure for sustained high speed usage.  That sounds
> logical.  However, a guy on the Viper list just had the same thing
> happen to him while cruising at 90mph.  He posted a message raising a
> stink about how he hated the tires.  That burst the dam.  Now, there are
> already 4 other guys replying that they have had the exact same failure,
> and even on differant cars.  Two of them have been on Mercedes E55's,
> and another on a SL500.  All these cars had less than 6,000 miles on
> them, and were on the original OE tires (Pilot Sports).
>
> If you are getting ready to lay down the big bucks for a set of these, I
> would hang on for a while and see where this goes.  It may be a fluke.
> I wouldn't chance it.  Every one of these failures is from the sidewall
> coming apart on the highway.  The incident with Hennessey was the only
> one involving insane speed.
>
> I just wanted to give a heads up, so you can check into this yourself
> and make your decision.
>
> --
> Jeff Tyler
> CFCC founding officer Member #2 (since 1995)
> 96 Viper GTS 11.96 @ 118MPH  all stock car and tires
> 95 Trans Am  13.14 @ 107MPH  1.6 Rockers/Borla/K&N/stickies/MAC Y&cat
> pipes
>
>
>


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:14:04 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fw: [dfw] Warning about Michelin Pilot Sports

Add an M3 to this list !

One dyno here in Switzerland had a major problem with a Michelin "Pilot"
equipped and tuned M3 on the rolls. At 170mph on the dyno, one rear wheel
decided to loose its sidewall. Total damage is worth $10k !!!!

> > and even on differant cars.  Two of them have been on Mercedes E55's,
> > and another on a SL500.  All these cars had less than 6,000 miles on
> > them, and were on the original OE tires (Pilot Sports).


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:22:04 -0400
From: Joe Gonsowski <twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject: Team3S: Throttle Body Question

I was wondering why coolant is routed through the throttle body and
possible ill effects by removing it.  I'm not sure why this is even
done.  I'm certain that the throttle body and intercooled boost is lower
than the coolant temp (190F+), therefore the coolant is ever-so-slightly
warming up the intake charge.  I'm assuming the coolant circulates at
normal operating temps, if it doesn't then removing the water may not
help.

Before I do anything, I want to understand why it is there, I don't want
to have any driveability issues.  I have a couple theories, but I'm just
not sure.

Thanks,
Slo Joe
'92 R/T TT


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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End of team3s V1 #116
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