team3s
Thursday, April 20
2000 Volume 01
: Number
112
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:08:55 -0500
From: xwing <
xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
fuel pump
These values are wrong, from what I can see.
They are so FAR
wrong, at least in regards how much
the pumps flow at the rated PSI, so as to
make the
whole thing un-trustable, IMO. A technique
that comes up
with such values, disproven in
practice by many
of us using the
HKS=Cosmo pumps to make over
500 and 600hp AT fuel pressures of 63-70psi,
must
be wrong for us. Maybe it is true unto itself,
but WHO
KNOWS? Lowell Foo tested the
MkIVSupra pump to over 110psi, still
putting out good fuel
flow, through the whole DSM fuel system.
One wonders
if it was a Walbro seller...
JT
>
>
PSI
Walbro
Cosmo
MKIV MKIII
>
-------------------------------------------------------------
>
26 60.0
gph 61.6
gph 60.4 gph
40.1 gph
> 30 58.1
gph 57.5
gph 55.4 gph
35.6 gph
> 40 51.0
gph 48.4
gph 47.2 gph
26.3 gph
> 50 43.9
gph 38.0
gph 37.3 gph
16.7 gph
> 60 37.3
gph 28.0
gph 28.7
gph 8.0 gph
>
70 32.1
gph 16.6
gph 16.5
gph no test
>
80 20.9
gph
dribbling
dripping no test
>
85
dribbling no
test no
test no
test
>
> :From: Oleg-Telia [
mailto:Oleg@telia.lv]
> :I ordered HKS
fuel pump from one webshop and received it,
> :"Denso" on it
Serial number of that pump is 195130-0771. Does
> :anybody know:
>
:1) could it be made by HKS;
> :2) if not, what kind of fuel pump it
is?
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:22:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: fuel pump
I know the guy that did this..and with more
talk it wasnt a perfect
test..read the rest of my messages before you start
callin someone
dishonest 'because he must be a seller'.
Dave is aware
he has a testing issue, and he also wants to figure out
whats not right as
well.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
.
1995 Mitsu.
VR4
Plate: SPDTOY 2* 13.2@107
2000 Celica
GT-S
Plate: SPDTOY 3* 14.9@96Mph
1987 Supra
Turbo
Plate: SPDTOY 1* 13.38@104Mph
-
---------------------------------------------------
K&N FIPK,Spearco
IC,APEXi N1 Exhaust*,Custom Hardpipe Kit,Walbro Fuel Pump,
Custom
Aluminum-Alloy Flywheel,RC 3mm Overbore Throttle Body,
Mueller Lightweight
Driveshaft*,HKS Downpipe*Lightweight Main Pulley**,
Full Redline Synthetic
Oils & WW,AEM Cam Gear (Intake)*,Dave Hall AFPR,
Greddy Type-S
BOV,Lightewight 16x8" Racing Wheels,HKS FCD,Greddy EGT Guage,
ST Swaybar
Set,Eibach Pro Spring Set,Tokico-II TEMS Struts,
APEXi (new) AVC-R,Broward
Dual-Friction Clutch*,BM150 Electric Fan
Porterfield Heat/Cryo treated
Rotors, crossdrilled*,Porterfield R4-S Pads*,
Full DOT 5.1 Brake
fluid,Goodridge SS Brake lines,Dunlop SP8000 tires.
Yes..all this on a stock
HG too @75-80lbs..I ferget.
+++
* On order
** Being
developed
On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, xwing wrote:
> These values are
wrong, from what I can see.
> They are so FAR wrong, at least in regards
how much
> the pumps flow at the rated PSI, so as to make the
>
whole thing un-trustable, IMO. A technique
> that comes up with such
values, disproven in
> practice by many
> of us using the
HKS=Cosmo pumps to make over
> 500 and 600hp AT fuel pressures of
63-70psi, must
> be wrong for us. Maybe it is true unto
itself,
> but WHO KNOWS? Lowell Foo tested the
>
MkIVSupra pump to over 110psi, still putting out good fuel
> flow, through
the whole DSM fuel system.
> One wonders if it was a Walbro
seller...
>
> JT
>
> >
> >
PSI
Walbro
Cosmo
MKIV MKIII
> >
-------------------------------------------------------------
> >
26 60.0
gph 61.6
gph 60.4 gph
40.1 gph
> > 30 58.1
gph 57.5
gph 55.4 gph
35.6 gph
> > 40 51.0
gph 48.4
gph 47.2 gph
26.3 gph
> > 50 43.9
gph 38.0
gph 37.3 gph
16.7 gph
> > 60 37.3
gph 28.0
gph 28.7
gph 8.0 gph
> >
70 32.1
gph 16.6
gph 16.5
gph no test
> >
80 20.9
gph
dribbling
dripping no test
> >
85
dribbling no
test no
test no test
>
>
> > :From: Oleg-Telia [
mailto:Oleg@telia.lv]
> > :I ordered
HKS fuel pump from one webshop and received it,
> > :"Denso"
on it Serial number of that pump is 195130-0771. Does
> > :anybody
know:
> > :1) could it be made by HKS;
> > :2) if not, what
kind of fuel pump it is?
>
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:37:34 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: fuel pump
Thanks
I know the guy that did this..and
with more talk it wasnt a perfect
test..read the rest of my messages before
you start callin someone
dishonest 'because he must be a seller'.
Dave
is aware he has a testing issue, and he also wants to figure out
whats not
right as well.
- -----Original Message-----
From: xwing [
mailto:xwing@execpc.com]
Sent: Wednesday,
April 19, 2000 2:09 PM
To: Team3S;
stealth@starnet.netSubject: Team3S:
Re: fuel pump
These values are wrong, from what I can see.
They
are so FAR wrong, at least in regards how much
the pumps flow at the rated
PSI, so as to make the
whole thing un-trustable, IMO. A
technique
that comes up with such values, disproven in
practice by
many
of us using the HKS=Cosmo pumps to make over
500 and 600hp AT fuel
pressures of 63-70psi, must
be wrong for us. Maybe it is true unto
itself,
but WHO KNOWS? Lowell Foo tested the
MkIVSupra pump to
over 110psi, still putting out good fuel
flow, through the whole DSM fuel
system.
One wonders if it was a Walbro
seller...
JT
>
> PSI
Walbro
Cosmo
MKIV MKIII
>
-------------------------------------------------------------
>
26 60.0
gph 61.6
gph 60.4 gph
40.1 gph
> 30 58.1
gph 57.5
gph 55.4 gph
35.6 gph
> 40 51.0
gph 48.4
gph 47.2 gph
26.3 gph
> 50 43.9
gph 38.0
gph 37.3 gph
16.7 gph
> 60 37.3
gph 28.0
gph 28.7
gph 8.0 gph
>
70 32.1
gph 16.6
gph 16.5
gph no test
>
80 20.9
gph
dribbling
dripping no test
>
85
dribbling no
test no
test no
test
>
> :From: Oleg-Telia [
mailto:Oleg@telia.lv]
> :I ordered HKS
fuel pump from one webshop and received it,
> :"Denso" on it
Serial number of that pump is 195130-0771. Does
> :anybody know:
>
:1) could it be made by HKS;
> :2) if not, what kind of fuel pump it
is?
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:45:41 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: fuel pump
Err..sorry for the double post.
*doh*
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:09:22 +0300
From: "Oleg-Telia" <
Oleg@telia.lv>
Subject: Team3S: dyno
test
Hi,
Have anyone ever heard/used the device
called Home Dyno
http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/homedyno/dynokit.htm#digirecorder?
Any
results and comments?
Oleg,
www.3000gt.lv***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:26:13 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: dyno test
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***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:11:33 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Repost to the list.
I was asked to send this to the
list.
- ---
Over the past week I changed the Gasket on my Valve
Cover and put on a split
second upgrade. When I started my car I was
blowing thick white smoke like
nobodies business. Does anybody have a
clue as to what may be wrong. I am
already aware of the headgasket
issue. Can anybody think of any other
reasons.
I would greatly
appreciate this Jeff.
Michael Steinebach
3000GT SL owner
-
---
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:14:51 -0400
From: smii <
smii@mediaone.net>
Subject: Team3S:
HKS GCC
Hello
everybody,
With the use of a VPC and 550cc injectors,would the HKS
GCC be manditory, or
could you run the VPC and injector upgrade without
using the
GCC.
Thank you in advance
Boris Peguero
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:01:26 +0200
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Repost to the list.
> Over the past week I changed the Gasket
on my Valve Cover and put on a
split
> second upgrade.
What is a
split second upgrade ?? And on an SL ?
> When I started my car I was
blowing thick white smoke like
> nobodies business.
It's just
running too rich if the upgrade is what I'm thinking
about.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:58:24 +0200
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: HKS
GCC
>
With the use of a VPC and 550cc injectors,would the HKS
> GCC be
manditory, or could you run the VPC and injector upgrade without
> using
the GCC.
If you have an EPROM that really does its work, no GCC is
needed. The most
people I know got one alater for fine
tuning.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 20 Apr 2000 01:03:15 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <
errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: For those who know more about turbos than me...
BRACATTAC@aol.com wrote:
> My
friends and I have been having a big "discussion" today, the question
is
> whether there is a difference between 10 psi on a stock turbo as
opposed to
> 10 psi on a 20G turbo? Also, where is the PSI tested on
an engine? What I
> said was that if the psi is tested on the turbo
itself then yes, the 20 G
> would actually be pushing more air into the
car if it is measured right in
> front of the trottle body then it would
be the same. On of my friends said
> its tested at the internal
wastegate which is on the turbo itself, is this
> right?
None of
this is right. :)
Engine boost is generally measured at the intake
plenum,
more specifically at the surge tank which is right before
the air
is about to enter the intake manifold and go into
the
engine.
Measuring pressure in front of the throttle body would
give
boost readings incorrectly reflecting the air actually entering
your
engine (esp. during shifts and deceleration).
Measuring pressure at the
wastegate would tell you about
your post-turbine exhaust backpressure which
has little to
do with how much boost you're making. Maybe your
friend
is talking about the wastegate ~actuator~ but this also is
not a
good place to measure boost.
In comparing airflow and boost between
different turbos,
many other factors come into play.
First of all, you
should only be comparing them at a particular
engine rpm. It's not
whether one turbo "flows more than another
at X psi." It's a
question of whether a particular turbo is able
~at a particular engine rpm~
to supply enough air to that engine
in order to produce the desired amount of
boost.
Then you must consider how efficient the turbo is at
producing
that level of boost at that particular airflow level. A
more
efficient turbo will output air which is cooler and thus
denser.
So at a low rpm (say 3000 rpms), both the stock 9B and
the big
20G have no problem "pushing" enough air to boost
another 10 psi
over atmospheric pressure into the engine since
it doesn't require much
airflow to do this. However, the 20G
might actually be slow to get
enough air moving because it's
such a big turbo, i.e. it's better fit for
moving big chunks of air
rather than little chunks of air. [This is
called slow spool-up.
"Lag" is when it the rpms are so low that it
can't produce any
boost at all.]
However, at 7000 rpms the engine is
requiring twice as much
air to maintain 10 psi. Both turbos should be
able to do this,
but the stock 9B is spitting out hotter air because the tiny
blades
are spinning really fast to produce this boost. Meanwhile,
the
20G is barely breaking a sweat as it spins comfortably and
pushes out
nice cool air.
Attempting to raise boost further to say 20psi, you'll
find that
the 9B simply won't supply the necessary air, while the 20G
will
be easily getting the job done (at 7000rpms).
I hope this
explanation helps. I've left out lots of other details
which only make
things more confusing. And what I've said is
open to correction from
others more knowledgeable than I. :)
If you're curious what the
15G's look like compared to the
stock 9B's, let me know and I'll email you a
picture. At 15psi,
the 15G's are able to flow about 50% more air than
the stock
9B's. This is enough to hold about 18psi up to redline
(with
plenty of boost available throughout the lower rpms).
- --Errin
Humphrey
Seattle
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:03:19 PDT
From: "john Gunmann" <
jgunmann@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Open Track
Y'all,
This weekend Nelson Ledges is having an
open track event. It is located
near Cleveland OH, the directions to
get there are;
from the turnpike, get off at exit 14 in Ohio, at that
exit are the
closest motels to the track. I'll be staying at the Gateway
Motel (330)
898-2260. Take SR 5 west to SR 534, turn right go apx 6
miles to SR 422,
turn left go 1/4 mile to SR 305, turn left on SR305 track
is two miles on
left. These directions are on the track map on the web site
www.fastone.comI will be there
Fri., Sat. & Sun., weather pemitting. Mark Liberty is also
planning on attending Sun., and has proposed hooking up Sat. night for some
fun & festivities.
Hope to see you
there!
John
93rttt
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:17:22 -0500
From: Jim Wiseman <
jim.wiseman@wcom.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Turbo cool-down time
I am wondering what the rest of you Turbo
guys do in regard to letting the
engine run a minute or so to cool the turbos
before shutting it down?
Obviously, I don't have a turbo-timer (or I wouldn't
be asking this
question).
Specifically, what I'm wondering about is
this: I drive from home to work on
an open freeway. At both ends, I get off
the freeway within about 3/4 mile
from my destination. From there I take it
slow on a couple of city streets.
In my opinion, that minute or more that I'm
driving slowly should suffice
for the cool-down time of the turbos that the
factory suggests.
I understand the factory's recommendation for this. I
just spent $2100
having both turbos replaced because the oil feed lines had
became completely
occluded with coked up oil from the previous owner's
neglect in just
shutting the engine off and not cooling the
turbos.
I'd like to hear other opinions on
this.
Thanks,
Jim
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:40:14 -0400
From: Jeff Schwartz <
jeff.schwartz@citicorp.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Turbo cool-down time
I have the same situation as you.
The last 1/2 mile of my drive is
street driving. I usually drive at
40MPH in 4th gear, but I also let
the car cool for at least a minute in the
garage as I walk down the
drivway to get the mail. If I'm driving it
hard, I'll give it about
3 minutes of extra cool down time.
I also warm
the car up in the morning for about 1 minute, even though
it's in a heated
garage.
- --
Jeff Schwartz
1995 Panama Green Pearl VR4
Borla,
K&N, Magnecors, Redline Fluids
Jim Wiseman wrote:
>
> I
am wondering what the rest of you Turbo guys do in regard to letting the
>
engine run a minute or so to cool the turbos before shutting it down?
>
Obviously, I don't have a turbo-timer (or I wouldn't be asking this
>
question).
>
> Specifically, what I'm wondering about is this: I
drive from home to work on
> an open freeway. At both ends, I get off the
freeway within about 3/4 mile
> from my destination. From there I take it
slow on a couple of city streets.
> In my opinion, that minute or more
that I'm driving slowly should suffice
> for the cool-down time of the
turbos that the factory suggests.
>
> I understand the factory's
recommendation for this. I just spent $2100
> having both turbos replaced
because the oil feed lines had became completely
> occluded with coked up
oil from the previous owner's neglect in just
> shutting the engine
off and not cooling the turbos.
>
> I'd like to hear other opinions
on this.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:38:08 -0700
From: "Chris Maxwell" <
shmacker@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Engine Tapping - spark plug question
I posted a couple weeks ago about a
severe engine tapping noise that sounded
metallic and was possibly caused by
low oil level. Well, I finally took my
rear spark plugs out and the two
plugs on the ends were fine, but the plug
from the middle cylinder had lots
of dark sludge type deposits on it. So of
the deposits were hard, but
some were still wet. What could this mean?
Thanks,
Chris
1992
R/T TT (150k miles)
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:23:49 -0500
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Turbo cool-down time
Jim,
I think you're doing the right
thing. I personally don't buy into the turbo
timer stuff. I think having a
turbo timer basically tells you it's alright
to run hammer down all the way
to you're parking space, then let the car
idle in the hot sun, allowing the
engine to get even hotter. I would much
rather save the $100 (or whatever
they cost these days) and cool the entire
car......engine, turbos, and all
other components that get abused while
driving hard......while fresh air
passes through the radiator, and around
the
chassis.
Wayne
At 01:17 PM 04/20/2000 , Jim Wiseman
wrote:
>I am wondering what the rest of you Turbo guys do in regard to
letting the
>engine run a minute or so to cool the turbos before shutting
it down?
>Obviously, I don't have a turbo-timer (or I wouldn't be asking
this
>question).
>
>Specifically, what I'm wondering about is
this: I drive from home to work on
>an open freeway. At both ends, I get
off the freeway within about 3/4 mile
>from my destination. From there I
take it slow on a couple of city streets.
>In my opinion, that minute or
more that I'm driving slowly should suffice
>for the cool-down time of the
turbos that the factory suggests.
>
>
>I'd like to hear other
opinions on
this.
>
>Thanks,
>Jim
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
End
of team3s V1 #112
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