team3s
Wednesday, April 19
2000 Volume 01
: Number
111
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:20:29 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
TuRbO Questions
Water is a product of combustion, but glycol/water mix
(coolant) definitely
is not. You should see not much else but exhaust
and the odd bit of water
from combustion (VERY little though, if any -- it
comes out as vapor and
usually won't be condensed at that part of the
engine).
Check your water lines to and from the trubos, and anywhere
else.
Stock actuators operate around 6.5-7 psi or so.
Something is
not set up right on the car. When I open the throttle on mine
I get as
much boost as is dialed in (within reason obviously) with
acceptable
lag.
Check all the gaskets. Check for proper fitment and
torque/tension on
fasteners. Check all vaccuum/pressure lines --
standard diagnostic stuff.
You'll fid something not quite right. Did
you reset the ECU? If not, do
so, and if that doesn't help, do it AGAIN
once you do find the trouble.
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> Possible problems after my 15G install here,
folks.
>
> 1) Has anyone ever started up their car without a
catalytic
> converter (or downpipe) bolted on? If so, did you
notice
> a lot of rising steam from the turbo area, smell of
burning
> coolant and/or water-spray underneath the O2
housings?
>
> 2) I noticed this when I first started the car.
Bolting up my
> exhaust system made most of it go away. However,
I
> wonder if this is an excessive amount of water coming from
> the
O2 housings.
>
> (I realize that water is a product of combustion,
but this
> seems like a lot...)
>
> 3) How much pressure is
necessary to open the stock
> wastegates? I drove around with the
wastegate lines
> connected to the Y-pipe nipple, and I noticed that
boost
> would cut off at around 4-5 psi.
>
> 4) I really need
to get an idea of how much lag I should be
> experiencing with the
15G's. Currently, it really seems like
> there is too much lag and
not much boost. . . .
>
> I unplugged wategate lines (I'm on stock
fuel system, but
> I was watching boost VERY carefully with the intention
of
> keeping it below 10 psi and keeping revs below ~5000),
> and
while giving it 1/2-2/3 throttle, boost would seem to
> refuse to climb
above ~7psi at around from 3000-4000
> rpms. Even low rpm lag in
general seems VERY noticeable
> compared to the stockers.
>
>
More importantly, it seemed like holding it at a set amount
> of decent
throttle (say 50% throttle) would NOT be sufficient
> to keep boost
climbing. In other words, boost would stop
> drop off from around
0.3-0.5 bar even as revs climb past
> 4000 rpms. This is much
different that I'm used to with the
> stock turbos w/ which you can just
hold the gas steady and the
> boost will keep climbing. *I'm
wondering if the 15G's require
> opening the throttle quite a bit ~more~
to get higher boost. (?)
>
> 5) Does anyone know how these things
might be related?
> Lots of water out of the O2 housings makes it seem
like
> there's a coolant leak within the turbo bearing (somehow
>
allowing coolant into the turbine housing?) BTW, my lines
> are not
leaking, but I did have to adjust the water jacket on
> the front
turbo. And with a very big increase in lag and
> seemingly very
little boost output, one or both of the turbos
> seem to be
faulty.....
>
> To support this possibility, I've noticed a loud
hissing noise
> coming from the rear turbo area, and I can't find any
vacuum
> hose which could be responsible. These are TEC's, and
I
> installed them myself using the utmost extreme care
....
>
> If you have ANY advice PLEASE HELP!
>
> Not
happy :(
>
> --Errin Humphrey
>
Seattle
>
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:18:39 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Buying Porsche pads
Welcome back !!!!!
I bought the Porterfield R4
for track use and the R4Sfor street use ---
price was about $170. I had the
Pagid blacks and they were loud, dusty
and ate rotors --- I haven't had the
Porterfield rotors/pads long enough to
judge them. They did fine at Willow
Springs track, but as I said in my post,
not much braking goes on at Willow
Springs.
Jim
Berry
=========================================
> I recently
installed a set of front calipers from a Porsche 933 C2 turbo on
> my
Mitsubishi. They came with Pagid Black pads, which may or may not be
>
race pads. (The "Blacks" are a new model, so how well they work on
track
> remains to be seen. They emit vast clouds of black brake dust,
that's for
> sure).
>
> I'd like to get a set of stock
Porsche pads to use on the street, but we
> don't have a Porsche dealer in
the area. Where else can one purchase
> Porsche pads? And does anyone have
a recommendation on which brand of
> non-Porsche pads work OK on the
street?
>
> Rich/94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 AWD
>
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:22:44 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Two bolts away
Buy the stand. $50 will get you a decent one
usually, and it'll pay for
itself the first night you use it.
A hoist
is sure nice too to have around, but expensive. I was fortunate
enough
to borrow one but came close to buying one.
Barry
PS: I
raised my virtual hand, BTW.
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> All right,
>
>
Raise your hand if you cussed out the design engineers while trying
> to
remove the top bolt on the power steering pump?
>
> I'm two
bolts(the lower motor mounts) from having the motor out of the
>
car. I'm probably going to go RENT a engine hoist tomorrow. I
was
> thinking of BUYING an engine stand. Is this necessary?
If not, how do
> I go about working on the engine without hurting
it? IF SO, where/what
> do I bolt the engine to the stand
with?
>
> --
> -Jeff Crabtree
>
'91 Stealth R/T TT(3/SI
#499)
> 2K
Wrangler TJ
Sport
>
St. Louis, MO
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:01:12 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Injector & timing specs wanted
Anyone happen to have
approximate injector pulse widths for 720cc injectors?
I'd like 500rpm
increments, with or without boost added.
Also, a 3d timing map would be
good. Anyone ever gather this data?
Brad
Check out my home
page:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:29:37 +0200
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Injector & timing specs wanted
Brad
Expect the data
for the injectors tonight as I'm logging the car today. I do
not have any 3D
maps and the fuel map in the ECU doesn't give me any rpm
information. I do
have a printout of the ignition and fuel map but it
doesn't tell you a lot
:(
I can send you a data dump from the datalogger as I'm not sure if
you
already have the software.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
-
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Brad Bedell <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
An: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Gesendet:
Dienstag, 18. April 2000 07:01
Betreff: Team3S: Injector & timing specs
wanted
> Anyone happen to have approximate injector pulse widths
for 720cc
injectors?
> I'd like 500rpm increments, with or without
boost added.
>
> Also, a 3d timing map would be good. Anyone
ever gather this data?
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:33:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Deciding on piston size for the TT
Joe,
I put Venolia,
no-silicon, forged pistons (0.050" over) in and
they recommended
0.005" clearance, which the mechanic used. I
haven't had any
piston/cylinder-related problems that I have
recognized.
Jeff
Lucius
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Gonsowski" <
twinturbo@mediaone.net>
To:
"3000GT / Stealth List" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, April 17, 2000 6:00 PM
Subject: Team3S: Deciding on piston size for
the TT
Service manual suggests: 30 to 50 microns
(.0012"-.0020") gap,
piston to bore. Aftermarket piston
manufacturers suggest: 102
to 127 microns (.004" - .005")
gap.
Any comments, how much gap did your builds/rebuids receive
and
how has it held up. I realize this question is a long shot,
but
I thought I'd try anyways.
Thanks,
Slo Joe
http://people.mw.mediaone.net/twinturbo/homepage.htm__________________________________________________
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You Yahoo!?
Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:38:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Injector & timing specs wanted
Roger,
As I will be
adding the 720s also in a month or so, I would be
interested in a copy of any
.tlg files you would like to share.
Do you think there is a problem with
sending Brad a copy of
TMOlog.exe? Regarding TMOlog.exe, have you tried
disassembling
it? I have done this with DOS programs but don't know if
a
similar process is available for Windows programs. If I can find
his DOS
version I'll run it through DEBUG so see what it looks
like.
As
always, thanks.
Jeff Lucius
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/-
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, April 18, 2000 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Injector & timing
specs wanted
Brad
Expect the data for the injectors tonight as I'm
logging the car
today. I do not have any 3D maps and the fuel map in the
ECU
doesn't give me any rpm information. I do have a printout of
the
ignition and fuel map but it doesn't tell you a lot :(
I can send
you a data dump from the datalogger as I'm not sure
if you already have the
software.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:16:11 EDT
From:
AABOMB1@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Re: Buying
Porsche pads
merritt@cedar-rapids.net posted a
message about some porsche pads and
calipers he had installed on his 3000GT.
I'm not exactly sure what kind he
installed, you might want to e-mail him
and ask.
He also told me contact Brad Bedell if I wanted to buy the pads,
I never got
around to it though (don't have enough money to spend on
it).
I'll insert Brad Bedell's e-mail and website address below. Email
Merritt if
you need more info about what types of pads you should
buy.
Brad Bedell's Email address:
bbedell@austin.rr.comBrad Bedell's
Web site:
http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/Brad
Belell's ICQ UIN: 3612682
Hope that helps
AA
-
-------------------
E-mail:
aabomb@thepentagon.com <or>
aabomb1@aol.comFax: (707) 982-8817 [In
United States]
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:21:14 -0400
From: Mark <
pagan@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: Injector & timing specs wanted
At 01:38 PM 4/18/00 -0700, Jeff
Lucius wrote:
<snip>
> Regarding TMOlog.exe, have you tried
disassembling
>it? I have done this with DOS programs but don't know if
a
>similar process is available for Windows programs. If I can
find
>his DOS version I'll run it through DEBUG so see what it
looks
>like.
SoftICE is a debugging/disassembler application
for 32bit applications. It
works with both Win9x and NT. It works
quite well and can disassemble on
the fly or on given triggers (like
debugging in a compiler's IDE). Very
nice stuff.
Mark
'93 R/T
TT
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:08:42 -0400
From: Joe Gonsowski <
twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Deciding on piston size for the TT
Much thanks to Jeff and
others that wrote me directly. I also found
more information out today
and would like to share with those
interested.
First and foremost, a
few basics on piston to bore clearance. Aluminum
pistons thermally
expand more than our cast iron blocks. The higher the
combustion temps,
the more clearance that is needed (or you'll scuff the
piston and/or bore
wall). Furthermore, forged pistons expand more than
cast pistons.
These two facts make it easy to understand why piston
clearance must increase
as you go from NA to force fed to nitrous and
cast to forged.
Knowing
this, I'm going to use the forged pistons manufacturer's
recommendation and
keep a .004" to .005" clearance. I may hear an
extremely
faint piston slap noise at start-up if I know what I'm
listening for (not a
durability risk), but will then have excellent
clearance at normal operating
temps and high boost runs.
For those of you ordering pistons, make sure
you have accurately
measured the cylinder bores (don't assume a factory fresh
block is in
spec - mine luckily was good). You should be safe if there
is less than
.001" between max and min measurements on any one cylinder
(measured
longitudinally and laterally at the top, middle, and bottom of
the
cylinder). By taking all 6 measurements/cylinder, you are getting
a
decent map of the bore to judge if there is excessive run-out or
taper.
I repeated all measurements at least 3 times to make sure I had
an
accurate measurement. (make sure your bore gage or mic is
mastered
correctly). If you have .001" or more variation, you may
want to
consider having the block bored to the next piston
size.
Understand how tight the piston manufacturer will hold
dimensions. It
may be wise to order the pistons to the tight side of
the spec (.004" in
my case). Then if necessary, you can hone the
cylinders until you get
the desired clearance. This is easier than
adding material to the bore
wall or piston (yeah right) and cheaper than
ordering another set of
pistons if the clearance is excessive. Most
shops order oversized
pistons first and then bore and hone to obtain the
desired clearance.
Later,
Slo Joe
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:17:19 +0100
From: "Martin" <
martin@star.co.uk>
Subject: Team3S:
Hello
Hi Guys
This is my very first mail to the list due to lurking
for a month or so.
I am just about to purchase my very first GTO TT here in
the UK and it is completely stock.
I would like to fit a turbo timer to the
car but have no idea which are good brands and which are bad.
I would like to
obtain one from the States if possible because they work out cheaper than buying
here in the UK.
Does anyone have any suggestions for me?
Thanks in
advance
Marty
Regards
Martin Berkley
Technical Support
Specialist
Star Internet
support@star.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
End
of team3s V1 #111
*********************