team3s             Friday, March 31 2000             Volume 01 : Number 096




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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:35:37 -0500
From: Lloyd Wihl <lloyd@cae.ca>
Subject: Team3S: Professional injector cleaning

Hi all,

Is there a way to tap into our fuel lines in order to do a professional
injector cleaning? No place I checked with seemed to have an adapter listed
for our cars, nor could they find a place under the hood to inject their
cleaning fluid. Are we forced to use less effective cleaners added to the
fuel tank? If so, is Redline any better than Techron?

I know I could also remove the injectors and send them away for testing,
cleaning and balancing. Would I have to drain the coolant first? Is there a
place in the Northeast (or ideally, in Canada) that does this service?

Thanks,

Lloyd Wihl
1993 RT TT


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:55:32 -0800
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: Team3S: Turbo Replacement..

Can anyone recommend a non-dealer, GOOD mechanic who will work the ext. warranty
to replce our turbos?

One finally started screaming a little at last weekends AutoX

http://www.speedtoys.com/~danno/autox/32500/32500.html for some stills and
video.

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:12:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Steve Kuhn <stpk@earthlink.net>
Subject: Team3S: Boost Question

I have 1994 Stealth TT

I installed VDO boost gauge with tap into boost at  Y pipe by throttle body.  Only other mod is K&N.

Here is what boost does: Initially it hits 12.5 PSI, then it quickly falls to 9 psi by about 4000 RPM , by 5000 RPM it hits 7 PSI and holds there til redline.

Is this normal,  if not is this caused by boost solenoid detecting knock?  I use 93 octane and do not have noticeable knock.  Perfomance overall seems pretty good.  According to my trusty G-tech, 0-60 arrives in 5.1 seconds which is within normal range for a stock car.

Am I losing boost?  As FYI the gauge was last used in my previous Talon and worked perfectly.

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 14:20:10 -0800
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Boost Question

Nopers..thats normal.

Called tiny-titty-turbo syndrome.

Sucks, but thats what makes a 4000lb car QUICK..a small turbo that comes up
quickly, but then falls flat.

Solution:  Upgrade.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Steve Kuhn [mailto:stpk@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 2:13 PM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Boost Question


I have 1994 Stealth TT

I installed VDO boost gauge with tap into boost at  Y pipe by throttle body.
Only other mod is K&N.

Here is what boost does: Initially it hits 12.5 PSI, then it quickly falls to 9
psi by about 4000 RPM , by 5000 RPM it hits 7 PSI and holds there til redline.

Is this normal,  if not is this caused by boost solenoid detecting knock?  I use
93 octane and do not have noticeable knock.  Perfomance overall seems pretty
good.  According to my trusty G-tech, 0-60 arrives in 5.1 seconds which is
within normal range for a stock car.

Am I losing boost?  As FYI the gauge was last used in my previous Talon and
worked perfectly.

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:50:42 -0600
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Boost Question

> Nopers..thats normal.
> Called tiny-titty-turbo syndrome.
> Sucks, but thats what makes a 4000lb car QUICK..a small turbo that comes up
> quickly, but then falls flat.

It isn't really the turbos fault, it is mostly the lame design of the stock boost control system.  Getting a boost controller should help, either a good electronic or one of the ball-restriction type manual controllers will help hold more boost by keeping the wastegate closed closed when it doesn't need to be open.

> Solution:  Upgrade.

Yup, but not neccessarily the turbos...

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:55:47 -0800
From: "Browne, Troy E" <troy.e.browne@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Lowering a Spyder?

Hi Josh,

I have one of these too.  The deal is that our Spyder's got a couple hundred
extra pounds of weight in the back(with the top down) so you will need to go

with some kind of adjustable spring setup like ground control coilovers or
something similar.  Straight RSR or Eibach's likely won't support the extra
weight and will squat the rear.   I'm surprised Matt hasn't replied to this
as he has a Spyder too.

Hope this helps
Troy
96' Caracas red Spyder


>Has anyone successfully lowered their vr-4 spyder?  If so which springs and
>how does it now ride.  Thanks



***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:14:47 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Turbo Swappin' Fun

*2nd attempt at posting this to the list*

Hey y'all,

Well, thanks to all the help I received from you guys,
I'm pretty far into my turbo swap project.  Right now
I've done everything except unbolt the turbos from
the manifolds, rear turbo from the O2 housing, and the
oil and coolant lines.

Yes, I got the rear heat shields off.  It wasn't too bad
actually.  You just have to ask them nicely.

I can't believe I've even made it this far. =)

Here come several questions I need help with:

1) Has anyone been able to remove the front exhaust
manifold heat shield (the one which "wraps" the exh.
manifold) without resorting to drastic measures?

I want to get it ceramic coated to help reduce under-
hood temperatures which really annoys me (in fact,
Miss December '99 listed it as one of her pet peeves).

Problem is that it looks impossible to remove without
unplugging the huge metal line into the air conditioning
compressor.  *Can I just unbolt this line, or do I have
to drain the refrigerant fluid first?  Is doing this a pain?

2) What are the symptoms to look for that your oil
lines are clogged and need replacing?  I noticed that
there seems to be oil leaking from my rear oil return
line where it attaches to the oil pan.  Does this tell
me anything significant about oil supply to my turbos
(or is it just probably a leaky gasket)?

3) Has anyone been able to replace the oil feed line
for the front turbo?  People were saying here recently
to replace your oil lines, and somebody (can't rmbr
who) told me that one of the lines would need to be
replaced "by feel."  However, this feed line look totally
impossible to replace w/o removing the alternator, air
cond. compressor, bracket, drive belt and tensioner.
Maybe I should only replace the return lines?  (the rear
feed line also looks like a pain to mess with)

4) Which way will the rear O2 housing come out?
>From the top or bottom?

5) I'm looking at things and wondering, is it possible
to leave the rear turbo attached to the O2 housing
and remove both of them together?  I'm thinking no.

6) Two of the rear turbo bolts to the manifold don't
look that tough to get to: the front and the passenger
side bolt (on the bottom).  Then the third bolt nearest
the firewall, I can hardly see it at all.  How am I going to
remove this?  Will shouting help?  I guess since I already
got the heat shields off, I'm wondering if the worst is
behind me.  :)

7) I'd ~really~ appreciate some advice on good bolt-
loosening techniques.  I'm about to hit some of the real
nasty turbo-to-manifold bolts, and some of the recent
bolts I've removed (e.g. EGR pipe) were pretty uncoop-
erative and made me feel like the bolt head was going
to break off.  Can this happen?  I broke a socket on one
of those EGR pipe bolts, but breaking tools doesn't
bother me as much as the idea of breaking off a bolt head
or a stud.

Anyways, I don't know whether it's better to pull a little
bit at a time, or hang for a while on the wrench, or just
do big yanks all at once, etc.  I'm doing this all by hand
here, folks.  Also, I should use 1/2" drive with a big arm
bar (whenever possible) to loosen these 14mm turbo-to-
manifold bolts, right?

I appreciate the help!

- --Errin "i love the smell of wd40 in the morning"
Seattle




***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 22:04:56 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Rotor hub question..

Hi Team,

Can I go with a rotor with a thicker hub to clear the
brake calipers?  Need about 1/2 inch more.. is it
possible to find one?? any down side to this?? how
will the wheel studs hold up?

I will probably go to Porterfield to see if they have
something for me.. but whould love to hear u guys
1st..

Thanx!
George

__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:10:54 -0500
From: "John T. Christian" <jczoom@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo Replacement..

Hi Jeff,

Yes.  I've got first hand experience.  But I live in Pittsburgh and
don't do warranty work.  Cash only.  Well, a few beers too.

I checked with the guys at South Park Mitsu and the book says 4.5 hours
for the rear turbo.  It took me closer to 4 DAYS.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend McKeesRocks Dodge if Dale Cannister has
the time to do the work.  But I don't know if they do ext warranty
stuff.

Be of good cheer
John

Mohler, Jeff wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend a non-dealer, GOOD mechanic who will work the ext. warranty
> to replce our turbos?
>
> One finally started screaming a little at last weekends AutoX
>
> http://www.speedtoys.com/~danno/autox/32500/32500.html for some stills and
> video.
>
> ***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

- --
JCZoooM  93 TT 12.46@109Mph   Now with Porsche brakes & Supra rotors
Email---> JCZooM@iname.com 
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:48:15 -0500
From: "John T. Christian" <jczoom@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo Swappin' Fun

Hi Errin,

Congrats on your progress.

Did I mention that a set of offset ratchet wenches is also helpful??
Especially for the water lines.

[snip]
Errin Humphrey wrote:
>
> I've done everything except unbolt the turbos from  the manifolds, rear turbo from the O2 housing, and the oil and coolant lines.
- --->Now the hard part begins.....

> 1) Has anyone been able to remove the front exhaust  manifold heat shield (the one which "wraps" the exh.  manifold) without resorting to drastic measures?
- --->The one towards the radiator comes off.   But fortunately I didn't
have to remove the one closest to the engine.

> 2) What are the symptoms to look for that your oil lines are clogged and need replacing?
- --> I looked at the oil ports in the turbo and what I could see of the
oil line.  Mine seemed fine so that's why I have a set of lines I need
to return to the Mitsu part guy.

>  I noticed that  there seems to be oil leaking from my rear oil return  line where it attaches to the oil pan.  Does this tell  me anything significant about oil supply to my turbos  (or is it just probably a leaky gasket)?
- -->I'd say its a leaky gasket or not tightened properly OR no gasket.
You'll find out why when you try to reconnect it upon reassembly.  I
must have dropped that one a zillion times cause the bolt holes didn't
lineup.


> 4) Which way will the rear O2 housing come out?  From the top or bottom?
- -->I removed the turbo bolts.  What you are calling the O2 housing I
think is the Precat.  Anyhow it comes out from the bottom as does the
turbo.  But I separated mine.  I didn't try to get them out as a whole.
If it can come out together, that would make your life easier.

> 5) I'm looking at things and wondering, is it possible to leave the rear turbo attached to the O2 housing  and remove both of them together?  I'm thinking no.
- -->Don't know.  I removed the bolts.  See 4 above.

> 6) Two of the rear turbo bolts to the manifold don't  look that tough to get to: the front and the passenger  side bolt (on the bottom).  Then the third bolt nearest  the firewall, I can hardly see it at all.  How am I going to remove this?
- --> I think that's the one to use the 1/4 air ratchet on with a swivel.
I didn't have a wobble, but try one if you have it.  I'll look at my
video and see if I talked about that one.

> Will shouting help?  I guess since I already got the heat shields off, I'm wondering if the worst is behind me.  :)
- -->The FUN has only just begun.  The heat shield was foreplay.  (-:)

> 7)  do big yanks all at once, etc.  I'm doing this all by hand
- --->Impact is better than slow torture.


> --Errin "i love the smell of wd40 in the morning"
- --> Welcome to the dirty fingernail club.

Be of good cheer
John
- --
JCZoooM  93 TT 12.46@109Mph   Now with Porsche brakes & Supra rotors
Email---> JCZooM@iname.com 
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 23:59:55 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo Swappin' Fun

> -----Original Message-----

> Here come several questions I need help with:


> 2) What are the symptoms to look for that your oil
> lines are clogged and need replacing?  I noticed that
> there seems to be oil leaking from my rear oil return
> line where it attaches to the oil pan.  Does this tell
> me anything significant about oil supply to my turbos
> (or is it just probably a leaky gasket)?

Look inside of them to see if there is a sludgy builup or coking.  Run
compressed air through them maybe, or even some oil with some pressure
behind it.

The oil pan return line points are notrious for leaking.  Probably just a
bad gasket.  Make sure the surface is very smooth, true and clean before
remounting the return pipe.

> 3) Has anyone been able to replace the oil feed line
> for the front turbo?  People were saying here recently
> to replace your oil lines, and somebody (can't rmbr
> who) told me that one of the lines would need to be
> replaced "by feel."  However, this feed line look totally
> impossible to replace w/o removing the alternator, air
> cond. compressor, bracket, drive belt and tensioner.
> Maybe I should only replace the return lines?  (the rear
> feed line also looks like a pain to mess with)

Both of them are a PITA but the front one is worse IMO.  You pretty much
have to remove the accessories to pull it off on the front.  The rear can be
done without removing accessories.

Replace the return pipes probably just because you can (if you have them)
and only replace the feed lines if they are coked up.  Mine were in perfect
condition surprisingly, but I repalced them anyway, only because I had new
ones.

> 4) Which way will the rear O2 housing come out?
> >From the top or bottom?

Top.

> 5) I'm looking at things and wondering, is it possible
> to leave the rear turbo attached to the O2 housing
> and remove both of them together?  I'm thinking no.

I don't think so but maybe.  I did not do it that way.  Leave the O2 housing
on the secured turbo until you get the O2 sensor off, then take off the rest
if the junk.

> 6) Two of the rear turbo bolts to the manifold don't
> look that tough to get to: the front and the passenger
> side bolt (on the bottom).  Then the third bolt nearest
> the firewall, I can hardly see it at all.  How am I going to
> remove this?  Will shouting help?  I guess since I already
> got the heat shields off, I'm wondering if the worst is
> behind me.  :)

Long extensions and do them from the bottom, and a swivel might help too.  I
used an 18" extension and a 12" as I recall.  If you hold your mouth just
right, it is almost easy (yeah right).

> 7) I'd ~really~ appreciate some advice on good bolt-
> loosening techniques.  I'm about to hit some of the real
> nasty turbo-to-manifold bolts, and some of the recent
> bolts I've removed (e.g. EGR pipe) were pretty uncoop-
> erative and made me feel like the bolt head was going
> to break off.  Can this happen?  I broke a socket on one
> of those EGR pipe bolts, but breaking tools doesn't
> bother me as much as the idea of breaking off a bolt head
> or a stud.

Soak the crap out of anything overnight that might be problematic with a
good penetrating compound llike Liquid Wrench and that ilk.  Dunno if this
stuff is O2 sensor safe so be carefully of using it around them.

I broke TWO O2 sockets trying to get the rear one off.  Finally I used a
huge (18" handle) adjustable wrench -- it came off like butter -- hard
butter though.  I felt kind of dumb for wrestling with the stupid things and
abusing those silly O2 sockets for 2 hours when the good ole monkey wrench
took about 10 seconds.  It took way too much force to remove though.

> Anyways, I don't know whether it's better to pull a little
> bit at a time, or hang for a while on the wrench, or just
> do big yanks all at once, etc.  I'm doing this all by hand
> here, folks.  Also, I should use 1/2" drive with a big arm
> bar (whenever possible) to loosen these 14mm turbo-to-
> manifold bolts, right?
>
> I appreciate the help!
>
> --Errin "i love the smell of wd40 in the morning"
> Seattle

Basically, if you more or less follow what the service manual says (other
than removing the accessories unless you do the oil feed lines, which means
you pretty much have to) then it all works well.  I removed the rad but not
the accessories the first time I did this.

The second time the engine came out, which in some ways is almost
easier...although putting it back in was a royal PITA.  I had to do it twice
as the first time it went in I pinched one of the rubber boots on the engine
mount and it bugged me too much to leave it as it was, even though
mechanically it would have been fine.


Barry


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:43:48 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Boost Question

> I installed VDO boost gauge with tap into boost at  Y pipe by throttle body.

First, this is before the throttle body and the wrong place to measure boost ! You should measure boost at the BPV activater hose or fuel pressure hose after the TB !!

> Here is what boost does: Initially it hits 12.5 PSI, then it quickly falls to 9 psi by about 4000 RPM , by 5000 RPM it hits 7 PSI and holds there til redline.

Already explained by our friends.

> Is this normal,  if not is this caused by boost solenoid detecting knock?

The ECU detects any problems and initiates a behaviour. The solenoid is a passive element.

>  I use 93 octane and do not have noticeable knock.

How do you measure knock ??? On our cars we do not have low speed knock and the dangerous high speed knock is not heareable !!

>  Perfomance overall seems pretty good.  According to my trusty G-tech, 0-60 arrives in 5.1 seconds which is within normal range for a stock car.

Ok

> Am I losing boost?  As FYI the gauge was last used in my previous Talon and worked perfectly.

No, everything is fine. Go on and buy an electronic boost controller.

Roger
93'3000GT TT


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:59:54 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rotor hub question..

> Can I go with a rotor with a thicker hub to clear the
> brake calipers?  Need about 1/2 inch more.. is it
> possible to find one?? any down side to this?? how
> will the wheel studs hold up?

Use a wheel spacer for this purpose .. or another  wheel. I had the same problem with the wheels availble here and therefore ended in a 3-piece OZ design where clearance could be adjusted. The stubs may become a problem with they are not long enough. Also there is more stress on them.

Hope this helps a little,
Roger
93'3000GT TT


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:53:48 -0600
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Lowering a Spyder?

> with some kind of adjustable spring setup like ground control coilovers or
> something similar.  Straight RSR or Eibach's likely won't support the extra
> weight and will squat the rear.   I'm surprised Matt hasn't replied to this
> as he has a Spyder too.

I haven't lowered mine, and don't intend to.  I'm already scraping the
underside of the stock front fascia during autocrosses, so I don't need
to hit sooner.  :-)  If I could find some stiffer springs, maybe...

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:08:42 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rotor hub question..

Thanx Roger!

I'm worried about stress on the stock wheel studs
too.. are there any aftermarket longer and stronger
wheel studs?? If yes, where can I get my hands on
some?

George

- --- "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch> wrote:
> > Can I go with a rotor with a thicker hub to clear
> the
> > brake calipers?  Need about 1/2 inch more.. is it
> > possible to find one?? any down side to this?? how
> > will the wheel studs hold up?
>
> Use a wheel spacer for this purpose .. or another
> wheel. I had the same problem with the wheels
> availble here and therefore ended in a 3-piece OZ
> design where clearance could be adjusted. The stubs
> may become a problem with they are not long enough.
> Also there is more stress on them.
>
> Hope this helps a little,
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
>
> ***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>

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End of team3s V1 #96
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