team3s
Friday, March 3
2000
Volume 01 : Number
072
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:41:44 -0600
From: xwing <
xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Shootout in Dayton Update #2!
Dayton, Ohio DSM/3S Drag/Autocross Shootout
Update #2:
I just got off the phone with Aaron Ruppert, (937-433-2529)
who is
organizing the
DSM Shootout this year. He is VERY supportive
of us 3/S people
and cars, REALLY WANTS US THERE! He wants this event
to
be as big or bigger than previous shootouts (last year had around
280
cars,
including 4 3/S's). He has gotten nothing but great
support from the
sponsors he's contacted already, there are other DSM groups
supporting
his plans and efforts. The city hall of the track's site is
going to
help
arrange better hotel deals etc etc...
So, the issue
of WHEN it will be is going to be determined once
Kil-Kare dragway's
administration gets back in a week or two to
hash out
details/situation. I know for a fact that there are three
3/S's in MY
city/area going, I suspect the Minnesota contingent
will be there, and
hopefully as the ball rolls we'll get together a
pretty good gathering of
3000GT/Stealths at this important and
fun event!
There will be drag
racing AND an autocross...the dragstrip has
ON-SITE a place to do it/some
sort of roadcourse deal.
I've attended the Shootout in 1997, '98 and '99
(with or without
my car!) and had the BEST time, every time. They share
our
brands-of-choice; really interesting to watch and inspect
the
different cars. There will probably be an "Other" class,
allowing
13 or 12-second and BETTER "other" brands to race in a
single
class to "spice it up" a little--some of us know friends who
WOULD
go with us, but have a Supra (like my buddy with the 11sec/134mph
car)
but don't because there are ONLY DSM's/3S's....but this would
keep
out the 100million 14+ second Hondas etc.
Anyway, the DSM shootout has
been in mid-July in years past;
we'll see when it ends up, but pencil in the
2-4 days required
for this, as it is a PREMIER event to be, see, bee seen
at!
Jack Tertadian
1993 3000GT VR4 10.81 @ 128.44 World's
Quickest :)
and longest out of service
:(
1994 3000GT VR4 12.38 / 114.40 needed daily
driver ;)
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:51:08 -0700
From: "Kevin Fanciulli" <
StealthTwinTurbo@bigfoot.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: front suspension kaTHUNK!
For reference, I just had my
control arms replaced (bad b-joints)... they
cost $1,000
($500/piece).
- -kevin fanciulli
'92 Stealth RT/TT
3Si
#0375
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Mark Wendlandt
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 8:15 AM
To:
davidma@premier1.net;
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: front suspension kaTHUNK!
You don't want to have to replace
your
b-joints, because as you know you have to replace the whole control
arm!!.
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 2 Mar 2000 15:02:14 EST
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S: Shootout in
Dayton Update #2!
Jack etc all...
I expect to FINALLY run at the DSM
Shootout.
Its over 600 miles for me but I expect to be there too.
Wait
till they see what an old VR-4 can do :)))))))))))
Arty 91
VR-4
Snip>>>
In a message dated 3/2/00 11:50:58 AM Pacific
Standard Time,
xwing@execpc.com
writes:
<< Subj: Team3S: Shootout in
Dayton Update #2!
Date: 3/2/00 11:50:58 AM Pacific Standard
Time
From:
xwing@execpc.com
(xwing)
Sender:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.stReply-to:
xwing@execpc.comTo:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st (Team3S),
stealth@starnet.net (
stealth@starnet.net)
Dayton, Ohio
DSM/3S Drag/Autocross Shootout Update #2:
I just got off the phone with
Aaron Ruppert, (937-433-2529) who is
organizing the
DSM Shootout this
year. He is VERY supportive of us 3/S people
and cars, REALLY WANTS US
THERE! He wants this event to
be as big or bigger than previous
shootouts (last year had around 280
cars >>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:23:43 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: front suspension kaTHUNK!
> For reference, I just had my
control arms replaced (bad b-joints)... they
> cost $1,000
($500/piece).
Also, for the do-it-yourself'ers, the front A-arms cost
about $211 each ('91
VR4).
- --
If you're not the lead car, your view
never changes!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San
Diego
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 2 Mar 2000 19:38:19 -0500
From: Lloyd Wihl <
lloyd@cae.ca>
Subject: Team3S: How to fix
clutch disengagement problem?
1993 RT TT, 79K miles, replaced Getrag,
clutch disk, pressure plate, and
throwout bearing 19K miles ago.
I
recently have developed difficulty engaging reverse (intermittently).
When
this occurs, if I shut off the engine, it will then slide into
reverse
effortlessly. I also occasionally have the symptom that a few of you
have
reported - a slight thud in the drivetrain when I go from neutral into
first
with the clutch pedal depressed. So I suspect the clutch is not
always
disengaging fully.
I adjusted the clutch pedal height and free
play to specs. This improved
overall shifting smoothness slightly, but did
not solve the problem. I
looked at the slave cylinder while someone pressed
the pedal, and it seemed
to be extending all the way. But this is an
intermittent problem, so I
replaced the slave cylinder anyway. Upon
inspection, the old one seemed to
have some wear at the rubber seal around
the piston, and a tiny bit of fluid
had seeped past it. I of course bled any
air out of the fluid as part of the
installation.
After replacing the
slave cylinder, the clutch pedal feels lighter, but the
shifting problem is a
bit worse. My dealer thinks it's a weak pressure
plate. I am wondering
if it could be wear at the master cylinder. Another
mechanic suggested that
if reverse is the only gear that's difficult to
engage, then it's probably
internal to the Getrag, and nothing to do with
the clutch.
I think my
problem is fairly common to 3S's. Before I pay for installation
of a new
pressure plate, I'd like to know what you folks think. Is it worth
trying to
replace the clutch master cylinder first? Has anyone done this
already, and
did it help? Do you think that if the problem is only in
reverse, it's the
transmission, and not the clutch? Could it be that the
flywheel is slightly
warped, keeping a bit of contact with the clutch disk?
Thanks for any
insight or experience you can provide.
Lloyd Wihl
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 02 Mar 2000 18:15:24 -0700
From: Dave Monarchi <
monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: How to fix clutch disengagement problem?
Funny you should
have this problem as I was just about to post my
own experience. I'm
not sure if you are having the same problem,
(after I re-read it maybe not)
but it's so simple it's worth checking.
Follow the intake Y-pipe
down to the front turbo/intercooler hose.
right along side it is (I think) a
metal vacuum line/tube. Take a
look at the shift linkage, specifically
the shift weight, and see if
it is contacting this vacuum line.
Mine was. AGH! I have lived with problems getting into 2nd
and
popping out of reverse ever since I bought the car. 10 minutes
after I noticed the problem, it was fixed. You just need to
_carefully_ bend/pry/move the tube so there's clearance for the
shift
weight.
I took a few pictures that show the problem in case this
doesn't
make sense. I'll try to post them in the next day or
two.
Hope it's that simple for you too.
Dave
95 Black
3000GT VR4
87 Mica Red GTI G60
- --------
+> 1993 RT TT, 79K
miles, replaced Getrag, clutch disk, pressure plate, and
+> throwout
bearing 19K miles ago.
+>
+> I recently have developed difficulty
engaging reverse (intermittently). When
+> this occurs, if I shut off the
engine, it will then slide into reverse
+> effortlessly. I also
occasionally have the symptom that a few of you have
+> reported - a
slight thud in the drivetrain when I go from neutral into first
+> with
the clutch pedal depressed. So I suspect the clutch is not always
+>
disengaging fully.
+>
+> I adjusted the clutch pedal height and
free play to specs. This improved
+> overall shifting smoothness slightly,
but did not solve the problem. I
+> looked at the slave cylinder while
someone pressed the pedal, and it seemed
+> to be extending all the way.
But this is an intermittent problem, so I
+> replaced the slave cylinder
anyway. Upon inspection, the old one seemed to
+> have some wear at the
rubber seal around the piston, and a tiny bit of fluid
+> had seeped past
it. I of course bled any air out of the fluid as part of the
+>
installation.
+>
+> After replacing the slave cylinder, the clutch
pedal feels lighter, but the
+> shifting problem is a bit worse. My
dealer thinks it's a weak pressure
+> plate. I am wondering if it could be
wear at the master cylinder. Another
+> mechanic suggested that if reverse
is the only gear that's difficult to
+> engage, then it's probably
internal to the Getrag, and nothing to do with
+> the clutch.
+>
+> I think my problem is fairly common to 3S's. Before I pay for
installation
+> of a new pressure plate, I'd like to know what you folks
think. Is it worth
+> trying to replace the clutch master cylinder first?
Has anyone done this
+> already, and did it help? Do you think that if the
problem is only in
+> reverse, it's the transmission, and not the clutch?
Could it be that the
+> flywheel is slightly warped, keeping a bit of
contact with the clutch disk?
+>
+> Thanks for any insight or
experience you can provide.
+>
+> Lloyd Wihl
+>
+>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
-
--------
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 02 Mar 2000 17:15:35 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: How to fix clutch disengagement problem?
Hi Lloyd,
It
has been a long time since I've seen a post by you ;) ...
Before doing
anything else, try lengthening the adjustment bolt between the
clutch pedal
and the clutch vacuum assist. This should help if it doesn't solve
the
problem completly.
> I think my problem is fairly common to 3S's.
Before I pay for installation
> of a new pressure plate, I'd like to know
what you folks think. Is it worth
> trying to replace the clutch master
cylinder first? Has anyone done this
> already, and did it help? Do you
think that if the problem is only in
> reverse, it's the transmission, and
not the clutch? Could it be that the
> flywheel is slightly warped,
keeping a bit of contact with the clutch disk?
I recently reported that
the seal on my slave cylinder blew. What was suprising
was that I
replaced the slave cylinder only a year before! Before it blew,
and
since the slave cylinder was fairly new, and since my symptoms still
occured, I
replaced the master cylinder. It seemed to help for awhile
but that was most
likely because the system was bled. Replacing the
master cylinder is a real
pain since you have to loosen/move the brake
booster in order to get to the nuts
that attach the clutch master.
The
problem is 'brake drag' in which the clutch disk does not
completely
disengage. Why it can be intermittent is still a mystery to
me. Possible
reasons are: 1) the clutch disk or the flywheel or
the pressure plate are
warped and at certain times/temperatures the warping
is at its worst and
dragging increases; 2) the clutch master cylinder
seals 'passes' fluid, i.e. it
leaks but the system is closed so you don't see
fluid loss, it just won't push
the full 'throw'; 3) the vacuum assist
is flakey and sometimes the 'throw'
isn't as long. 2 & 3 seem
unlikely.
I have replaced both my clutch master cylinder & slave
cylinder recently and I
still have intermittent problems. I also have
65K miles on my clutch so I now
suspect reason 1 is most likely the
cause.
Try the adjustment first and good luck,
Ken
- --
If
you're not the lead car, your view never changes!
Ken Middaugh (858)
455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 03 Mar 2000 06:38:32 -0800
From: Dan Jett <
djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: How to fix clutch disengagement problem?
Has anyone thought
that maybe there is a vacuum problem? Just a thought...
I too have the
same problem. I doubt very highly it is an intermittent "warping"
problem, though I certainly wouldn't discount it. Another possible cause could
be driveline freeplay....
Daniel Jett
djett@corp.ultratech.com408-325-6187
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:05:43 -0500
From: Lloyd Wihl <
lloyd@cae.ca>
Subject: RE: Team3S: How to
fix clutch disengagement problem?
> Before doing anything else, try
lengthening the adjustment
> bolt between the
> clutch pedal and
the clutch vacuum assist. This should help
> if it doesn't
solve
> the problem completly.
Ken, I've tried it all the way out
(leaving zero free play), but it didn't
help. So I brought it back in a bit
to make sure that the clutch is fully
engaged when the pedal is
up.
> The problem is 'brake drag' in which the clutch disk does not
> completely
> disengage.
I think your analogy to
brake drag is absolutely right. My understanding of
the pressure plate
operation is that when the throwout bearing slides toward
the flywheel, the
spring pulls back the pressure plate surface from the
clutch disk, removing
its force. But it does not pull back the clutch disk
from the flywheel. I
know with brakes, you still get about 15 lbs. of brake
drag even once the
pistons stop exerting a force, because the pads do not
pull back from the
rotor. Since it is rather easy to spin the transmission
input shaft when in
neutral, it would not take much contact between the
clutch disk and the
flywheel to keep the shaft turning.
I am now wondering if the problem
might be related to the contact between
the clutch disk and the splines on
the transmission shaft. If this area were
not perfectly clean and lubricated,
wouldn't the clutch disk have a greater
tendency to "stick" or
remain in contact with the flywheel? This might also
be temperature dependent
- I notice the best shifting around 32 F, with
degradation above and below
this temperature.
> I have replaced both my clutch master cylinder
& slave
> cylinder recently and I
> still have intermittent
problems.
Thanks, that saves me the trouble of replacing the master
cylinder. I'll
check the vacuum boost, but I think it's OK (there's a
definite difference
in pedal effort before starting the engine in the
morning). I have checked
the shifter linkage and there's no interference. I
guess the next step for
those of us with this problem is to open up the
clutch after all. Has anyone
actually solved it by changing the
clutch?
Lloyd Wihl
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:59:47 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Struts/Shocks
So I've heard people saying that the stock
struts/shocks won't really last
with the Ground Control kit or other
higher-rate/lower springs. As far as I
know we have 3 non-stock options
that aren't crazy expensive: Gabriel; KYB;
and GAB.
KYB:
The general impression I've gotten is that KYBs are very similar
to stock,
so I'm guessing they'd be susceptible to the same problems with
aftermarket
springs/perches as the stock parts. Is this
right?
Gabriel:
I've never heard these mentioned on any of the 3S
lists - anyone have any
experience/information? They're listed on
carparts.com and that's the first
I've heard of em. They're slightly
more expensive than the KYBs.
GAB:
I've heard these are the best bet
if they're in your budget. So who carries
these? I haven't seen
them listed anywhere, but heard they're pretty
expensive.
Stock:
So if you use the stock parts, are they just going to wear
out
faster, or are they not going to provide adequate damping for the
higher
spring-rate/shorter springs? i.e. if I can get them discounted
through
Norco or Tallahassee, would I be better off just replacing them more
often
if I drop the height or get higher rate springs?
If anyone
cares, the reason I'm asking is that I will need to replace my
stock
(non-ECS) struts/shocks by the end of the summer (maybe sooner) and
I'm
debating with what I'm going to replace them and whether I'm going to
change
the springs or possibly get the GC Kit.
Thanks!
- --Erik
-
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (NA, DOHC,
5-speed) 67,000
mi
Firestone Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock wheels
Magnacor KV85 spark
plug wires, NGK plugs @ 0.040"
K&N FIPK (57-1500), resonator bye
bye
Mobil 1 10W30 Synthetic w/ OEM oil filter
***No more ticking lash
adjusters! Treated with GM EOS, BG
44K FI cleaner. Change
oil every 2000mi, filter 4000mi ***
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
End
of team3s V1 #72
********************