team3s           Saturday, February 26 2000           Volume 01 : Number 067




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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:19:57 -0800
From: "Dr. John A. Tabler" <jtabler@summitmicro.com>
Subject: Team3S: who does your AWD alignment?

Hi All,
   Who do you trust to do an AWD alignment on your VR4?
Thanks,
John


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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:07:30 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: who does your AWD alignment?

At 10:19 AM 2/25/00 -0800, Dr. John A. Tabler wrote:

>   Who do you trust to do an AWD alignment on your VR4?

Denny's Muffler shop(west side location) in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
They did a 4-wheel alignment after they lowered the car 1.5 in. with the GC
kit.
They also do my brakes.
I trust them implicitly, they do a good job, and are reasonably priced.
They let me watch, too.

Rich/old poop

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:19:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Flow maps 15G and 18T

Mikael,

Awesome! The 18Ts are clearly superior. I superimposed RPM lines
and noticed the following.

For the 18T, the sweet spot (77+%) extends basically from 5000
to 7000 RPM with PRs of 1.7 to 2.5. Even better is the fact that
the sweet spot is elongated roughly parallel to the RPM lines.
Perfect!

For the 15G, the sweet spot (only 75-76+%) cuts through the RPM
lines at an angle and covers about 4500-6000 RPM from 1.5 to 2.1
PR. The 18T may help to reduce the torque fall-off (and
corresponding decrease in volumetric efficiency) we see in the
dyno curves after about 5000 RPM.

It looks like the practical limit for the 15G is about 424 cfm
(0.2 m3/s) and is about 470 or so (.222 m3/s) for the 18T. I
would guess the 15G is good for 500-550 HP and the 18T for
550-600 HP (at sea level). But the HP delivery would be sooooo
much better and sooner with the 18T.

Thanks for this info!

Jeff Lucius
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Mikael Åkesson <vr4@bahnhof.se>
To: Team3S list <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 9:12 AM
Subject: Team3S: Flow maps 15G and 18T

Hi,

There have been allot of talk on this list regarding how much a
15G turbo flows etc.

I have now published a flow map for 15G turbos on my hompage
http://www.3000gt.nu, (look under "performance" and then
"compressor")

I have also posted flow maps for the 18T tubos that I will use
on my car.

So what do you guys think, will 18T be better than 15G??

/Mikael Akesson
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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:46:29 -0800
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Trany Question

Thats because Mitsubishi didnt build it.  Getrag built it...and they want to see
entire trannies for RCA analysis and rebuilds.

If I were the vendor, Id do the same thing.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Nickolaos M. Sgouros [mailto:atenag@coqui.net]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 1:22 PM
To: Team3s
Subject: Team3S: Trany Question


Friends Hi:
Did someone can give me the answer why the dealers they don't sale parts for
our transmissions? I have a friend that he found a Stealth 93 TT in a very
attractive price, only has one problem. The synchronizer of the 3rd gear is
not well. We tried then to ask for parts and they told us that the US dealer
is not having any trany parts for sale!!! For $100-$200 part to replace the
complete transmission? Did someone have any information or someone knows
what is the brand of it so I can contact directly the manufacturer?
Thank all of you

Nikos the Greek
92' RT TT
Puerto Rico


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:12:01 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Trany Question

Nikos:

The short story:
No, there are no parts available new for the transaxle on TT cars.
It is made by Getrag, that is the policy that Mitsu and Getrag agreed
to and I've been trying to get parts for years.  Occasionally I got some
"backdoor" but now Getrag no longer builds them anymore, and sold the "official"

rebuild business to CRS company.

I am trying to get a company called Metric Mechanic to rebuild and
IMPROVE our trans's; I sent them one 5 speed already to tear apart
and science out how to fix and improve the synchros, like Metric Mech
already does for BMW Getrags.  They are confident they can much
improve the 3-4 and 5-R or 5-6 synchros; but have to dig into the trans
to see how to do the 1-2.

Jack Tertadian
Getrag Fix Warrior   :)

"Nickolaos M. Sgouros" wrote:

> Friends Hi:
> Did someone can give me the answer why the dealers they don't sale parts for
> our transmissions? I have a friend that he found a Stealth 93 TT in a very
> attractive price, only has one problem. The synchronizer of the 3rd gear is
> not well. We tried then to ask for parts and they told us that the US dealer
> is not having any trany parts for sale!!! For $100-$200 part to replace the
> complete transmission? Did someone have any information or someone knows
> what is the brand of it so I can contact directly the manufacturer?
> Thank all of you
> Nikos the Greek     92' RT TT
> Puerto Rico


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 00:29:32 -0500
From: "Gregory McIntyre" <greg@infinet.com>
Subject: Team3S: ECS/struts

Greets Team3S -

I have a '93 GT SL with the ECS. While it was up on the rack for some brake
work, I noticed some oil/fluid coming from the strut. I have also noticed
some "loose" noises from the rear end on bumpy roads, so it looks like I
need to do some work. Here are my questions:

Could someone explain how the ECS system works? I know the end result of a
stiffer ride and better handling, but how is this accomplished?

What alternatives are there to stock replacements for the struts? Can the
stock struts be rebuilt and/or adjusted (like the Konis on my old BMW) or
must they be replaced? What are the aftermarket alternatives, and the
tradeoffs for using them?

What are the typical "wear points" on the suspension that should be
checked/replaced while it's apart?

It all comes down to the almighty dollar. What are the typical costs?

Can someone recommend a good suspension mechanic in the Cincinnnati/Dayton
Ohio area?

Thanks in advance for your responses!

- -- Greg


***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 04:05:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ECS/struts

Greg,

I can help out with the "how does the ECS work?" question. I've
pulled this right from section 2B in the service manual.

The ECS works by adjusting the dampening force in the shock
absorbers in response to certain sensor inputs. This means BOTH
the expansion and contraction of the shock. The ECS control unit
is located behind the right trunk cover. There are two settings
- - Tour (soft dampening force) and Sport (hard dampening force).
The ECS controls anti-dive, anti-roll, anti-squat, bouncing, and
pitching and is speed sensitive. Input sensors include: engine
control unit and throttle position sensor, G sensor (under
driver's seat), steering wheel angular velocity sensor, vehicle
speed sensor, and stop light switch. The dampening force
changeover actuator is built into the shock absorber and is the
"non-disassembly type" (according to the manual). There are
actually THREE dampening positions (soft, medium, and hard) for
BOTH contraction and expansion of the shock. So there could be 9
different combinations of settings for EACH shock in response to
input from the sensors. If the G sensor fails then pitching and
bouncing control stops. If steering angular velocity sensor
fails then ant-roll control stops. If the vehicle speed sensor
fails then anti-roll, anti-dive, anti-squat, and high-speed
controls stop and the dampening force is locked into the medium
position. If any changeover actuator fails then all ECS controls
stop and the dampening force is locked into the hard position.
No fail-safe mode is listed for stop-light switch failure.

I guess that's the long answer to that question. As for your
other questions, searching the 3SI message board will probably
help. Popular spring replacements are made by Ground Control,
Eibach, Intrax, and RSR. Struts/shocks are made by Tein, HKS,
GAB, and others. The Tein spring/shock system will offer the
most variety for ride height and dampening adjustment and run
you close to $2000. Spring sets can be less than $200 and shock
sets can be purchased in the $300-400 range I think. You can do
the replacement yourself if you have a spring compressor and a
reasonable set of tools. I still use the stock suspension
system.

Hope that helps some,

Jeff Lucius
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory McIntyre <greg@infinet.com>
To: Team3S <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 11:29 PM
Subject: Team3S: ECS/struts


Greets Team3S -

I have a '93 GT SL with the ECS. While it was up on the rack for
some brake work, I noticed some oil/fluid coming from the strut.
I have also noticed some "loose" noises from the rear end on
bumpy roads, so it looks like I need to do some work. Here are
my questions:

Could someone explain how the ECS system works? I know the end
result of a stiffer ride and better handling, but how is this
accomplished?

What alternatives are there to stock replacements for the
struts? Can the stock struts be rebuilt and/or adjusted (like
the Konis on my old BMW) or must they be replaced? What are the
aftermarket alternatives, and the tradeoffs for using them?

What are the typical "wear points" on the suspension that should
be checked/replaced while it's apart?

It all comes down to the almighty dollar. What are the typical
costs?

Can someone recommend a good suspension mechanic in the
Cincinnnati/Dayton Ohio area?

Thanks in advance for your responses!

- -- Greg


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:37:05 EST
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: 60K Service

You can do the timing belt change if you have above average mechanical
skills, the special timing belt tensioner tool, a good set of calipers (the
measuring device) and a lot of patience.  It is not the most difficult
project, but it takes intense concentration to do it right.  And it is
essential to do it right the first time because with our interference
engines, you don't get a second chance.  You can't so much worry about how
much time it is going to take.  It can take you an hour or so just to
properly tension the belt.  There are very detailed threads on this subject. 
You should check recent ones as well as the archives.  If you need any other
help, you can e-mail me privately and I will be glad to help you through the
steps.

    You should replace the tensioner and water pump while you're in there. 
And take EXTREME care when you replace the water pump.  It's aluminum, as is
the part of the engine that it screws into.  SO stripping/cross threading the
threads is VERY EASY to do.

    Because it is so important, I would like to repeat that the most
important part of doing the timing belt change yourself is PATIENCE.  You
can't rush the job and have a successful result.

Joe 91 TT

***Info:  www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***

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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:40:03 EST
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: restoring/modifying question

That's a tough question without knowing the history of the engine.

Joe 91TT

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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:44:10 -0800
From: "Gula, James S" <gulajs@jmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ECS/struts

On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 04:05:25 -0800 (PST) Jeff Lucius
<stealthman92@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Greg,
>
> I can help out with the "how does the ECS work?" question. I've
> pulled this right from section 2B in the service manual.
>
> The ECS works by adjusting the dampening force in the shock
> absorbers in response to certain sensor inputs. This means BOTH
> the expansion and contraction of the shock. The ECS control unit
> is located behind the right trunk cover. There are two settings
> - Tour (soft dampening force) and Sport (hard dampening force).

Minor correction here... there are 3 settings.. Hard, medium, and
soft... in sport mode the setting is medium, until you accelerate hard,
brake hard, or turn hard (basically anything to cause the car to tilt
in any direction) and then the system is put into the hard mode.

- --Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula


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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:33:22 +0100
From: lehir@genesiscom.ch (Genesiscon Lehir)
Subject: RE: Team3S: removing the MAS restriction

Hi...

I'm not sure if you speak from experience....but..

Even if I have _NO_ first hand experience doing _THAT_ in a 3 S, I seriously
considered doing in
in my Z32 TT (VG30dett engine)....here are the problems...

>>1- Buy a broken MAS (to save on cost)

Easy

>>2- Modify plumbing to use two MAS, one for each turbo, locations are not
>>critical, just keep restrictions similar, and assure good access to cool,
>>fresh air.

Not easy, but can be done

>>3- Modify (have someone do it) the ECU EPROOM to utilize 2x MAS values

AARRGGHHH...

Btw here....you basically would like to install a NON_WORKING second MAS in
a parralel tubing...right ?

This is EXACTLY the setup I have in my Z32....with TWO parralel FIPK.

First of all, AFAIK, the 3S ecu has NO EPROM....you got to use a doughter
board, or re-programm the mask
INSIDE the processor.

Second,(I'm 100 sure about the Z32 here....but not absolutely sure about the
3s) the MAS response is NOT linear...i.e. _twice_ the air flow will NOT give
a reading _twice_ as much.
To simplify, MAS are NOT linear devices. So...it's NOT possible to ADD the
electrical values, or even to go in the Ecu code to double the read
value....it's a LOT more complex.

I know that the Z32 MAF is using a heated element to measure the air flow,
and that the 3S uses ultrasound.

Now, the big "IF's"

IF the 3S MAF _is_ linear
AND
IF the reading of the MAF is a direct function of the voltage (i.e. not a
FREQUENCY)

THEN (can you guess that I have a little programming background.....)

adding a $3 electronic board between the MAF and the ECU will solve the
problem..

FI

>>4- Bingo, air flow from 2 MAS would be more than adequate for 700HP

Well.....a lot more.....One MAF is good enough for 450 HP....

>>The only limitation of this system is that it assumes both halves of the
>>engine are reasonably symmetric in parameters, therefore your fuel
delivery
>>is optimized based on air delivery feedback from one side only.

True....

Another point of view.....
I'm actually NOT sure that the MAF is the power bottleneck in this car...
I'd say...upgrade the fuel delivery system first.


Henri


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End of team3s V1 #67
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