team3s
Friday, February 18
2000 Volume 01
: Number
061
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 07:50:35 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
110 Octane Low Lead Fuel
Lead will kill a zirconium dioxide O2 sensor
eventually. With the diluted
mixture you're talking about you *should*
be safe for a few runs down the
12320', but I would not recommend running a
full tank through the engine or
using leaded fuel as a matter of
course. It *will* eventually reduce the
effectiveness if not outright
kill the O2 sensor, it is just a matter of
how
long.
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> Hey All,
> My R/T 10
Viper driving acquaintance claims great results
> from a mixture
>
of 25% 110 octane low-lead aviation fuel and 75% 92+ octane pump gas.
I'd
> like to try it for myself but am very concerned about damaging
my
> o2 sensors
> and catalytic converter. Any thoughts are
appreciated.
>
> Cheers,
> Cory Eskelsen
> 96 R/T
TT
> #416
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:53:44 -0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: apex blow off valve and erratic idle
> You could buy the
BOV
>from a Mitsu dealer for $85. And any high school kid could
make the adapter
>for about $5 in parts, if they knew what they were
doing.
>This BOV setup directly replaces the stock 3/S BOV.
There is no tapping or
>customizing to do. If you can hook up two
1" hose clamps and a 6mm vacumn
>hose, then your capable of
installing this mod.
Sorry guys, I've been skimming over this whole
topic until this post from
Curt Gendron came along and made me realize that
maybe I should pay more
attention. Excuse my ignorance but:
What does
this BOV do for a 94 VR4?
What's the part number or description for this
magical BOV?
Do directions exist anywhere in the archives for making an
adapter and
installing it?
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/falling asleep at the
terminal again.
>
>Hope that
helps,
>Curt
>Come join us for the Upper Midwest
Gathering.
>Details at:
http://www.mn3s.org/upper-midwest.html>
>
>>From:
BHurvitz@aol.com>>Subject: Re:
Team3S: apex blow off valve and erratic idle
>>
>>The 1G BOV
sounds like a good street setup. Would the rerouting back into
>>the
>>intake stream after the airflow sensor require a
taping into the hose or is
>>there an existing line to T off?
Also Buscar shows a 1 G BOV with an
>>adapter
>>idem
#3019 Is this the CBV that you are referring
to.
>>
>>Bob
>>91TT
>
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>
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:36:32 CST
From: "Curt Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: apex blow off valve and erratic idle
Here is a picture of
what is looks like. Courtesy of Extreme Motorsports:
http://www.extrememotorsports.com/g2cat/bov1-l.jpglater,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org>From: Merritt
<
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>Subject:
Re: Team3S: apex blow off valve and erratic idle
>Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000
09:53:44 -0600
>
>Sorry guys, I've been skimming over this
whole topic until this post from
>Curt Gendron came along and made me
realize that maybe I should pay more
>attention. Excuse my ignorance
but:
>
>What does this BOV do for a 94 VR4?
>What's the part
number or description for this magical BOV?
>Do directions exist anywhere
in the archives for making an adapter and
>installing
it?
>
>Rich/old poop/94 VR4/falling asleep at the terminal
again.
>
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:06:26 EST
From: "Dg B" <
dbretton@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: GAB stuff
Hi folks,
Take a look at this url
(
http://www.optauto.com/), and look under
GAB.
Apparently they make adjustable shocks as well. Anyone know
if there are
applications for our cars?
Regards,
Dennis
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 19:12:45 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
GAB stuff
GAB adjustable struts are and have been available for the VR4
and other NA
models for quite some time. They are pretty easily the
best of the off the
shelf offerings.
Barry
>
-----Original Message-----
>
> Hi
folks,
>
> Take a look at this url (
http://www.optauto.com/), and look
>
under GAB.
> Apparently they make adjustable shocks as well. Anyone
know if there are
> applications for our cars?
>
>
Regards,
> Dennis
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 19:13:02 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
apex blow off valve and erratic idle
Am I the only one who has not ever
experienced any problems whatsoever
associated with an aftermarket BOV,
except for leaking above 19 psi?
My Blitz was installed early on before
big blowers and the like. It worked
excellent. After all the mods
it would leak above 19 psi (the rated maximum
pressure for the stock spring)
even with full pressure on the spring but the
high pressure spring cured
that.
Are people resetting their ECUs correctly after BOV installation to
allow
the ECU to relearn idle characteristics? Are these BOVs being
installed
correctly?
To answer Merrit's question, the BOV allows the
intake system to
depressurize before the impeller so that when the throttle
plate closes the
high pressure has somewhere to go (since it can't go into
the engine at that
point in time). The benefits are supposedly
two-fold. It saves wear and
tear on the impeller and bearings and
allows for faster spool-up and more
consistent average boost between
shifts.
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
Here is a picture of what is looks like. Courtesy of Extreme
Motorsports:
>
http://www.extrememotorsports.com/g2cat/bov1-l.jpg>
>
later,
> Curt
>
http://www.mn3s.org>
>
>
>From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
>Subject: Re: Team3S: apex blow off valve and erratic idle
> >Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:53:44 -0600
> >
> >Sorry guys, I've
been skimming over this whole topic until this
> post from
>
>Curt Gendron came along and made me realize that maybe I should pay
more
> >attention. Excuse my ignorance but:
> >
>
>What does this BOV do for a 94 VR4?
> >What's the part number or
description for this magical BOV?
> >Do directions exist anywhere in
the archives for making an adapter and
> >installing it?
>
>
> >Rich/old poop/94 VR4/falling asleep at the terminal
again.
> >
>
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 20:26:59 -0600
From: Matt Jannusch <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: apex blow off valve and erratic idle
> Are people resetting
their ECUs correctly after BOV
> installation to allow the ECU to relearn
idle
> characteristics? Are these BOVs being installed
>
correctly?
If the BOV is installed and functioning correctly, why would
the car have to relearn how to idle? It should be fully closed at vacuum
with no boost in the Y-pipe - same behavior as the stock valve. If it does
something different than this, then that would be undesirable as you would be
sucking in unfiltered (as well as unmetered) air through the BOV.
If you
mean idling after letting off the gas when under boost, I suppose the car would
eventually learn that the air metering system is screwed up and inject less fuel
when the throttle decreases than it normally would by altering the fuel trim
values over time.
> To answer Merrit's question, the BOV allows the
intake system to
> depressurize before the impeller so that when the
throttle
> plate closes the high pressure has somewhere to go (since
it
> can't go into the engine at that point in time). The
benefits
> are supposedly two-fold. It saves wear and tear on the
impeller
> and bearings and allows for faster spool-up and more
consistent
> average boost between shifts.
No, actually it vents
the intake after the impeller not before. It is after the turbo to provide
an escape route for the pressure, which should allow the turbo to continue
spinning (essentially just blowing boost out the BOV and into the air).
The stock setup does essentially the same thing, only it vents the air back into
the intake before the turbo essentially creating a loop in the intake system for
the boosted air to flow through.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 19:54:06 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
apex blow off valve and erratic idle
> -----Original
Message-----
> > Are people resetting their ECUs correctly after
BOV
> > installation to allow the ECU to relearn idle
> >
characteristics? Are these BOVs being installed
> >
correctly?
>
> If the BOV is installed and functioning correctly,
why would the
> car have to relearn how to idle? It should be fully
closed at
> vacuum with no boost in the Y-pipe - same behavior as the
stock
> valve. If it does something different than this, then that
would
> be undesirable as you would be sucking in unfiltered (as well
as
> unmetered) air through the BOV.
Yet people are experiencing
idle problems. Maybe they have defective BOVs,
maybe not. The
bottom line is the intake track has been modified, something
has been
affected.
> > To answer Merrit's question, the BOV allows the
intake system to
> > depressurize before the impeller so that when the
throttle
> > plate closes the high pressure has somewhere to go (since
it
> > can't go into the engine at that point in time). The
benefits
> > are supposedly two-fold. It saves wear and tear on
the impeller
> > and bearings and allows for faster spool-up and more
consistent
> > average boost between shifts.
>
> No,
actually it vents the intake after the impeller not before.
> It is after
the turbo to provide an escape route for the
> pressure, which should
allow the turbo to continue spinning
> (essentially just blowing boost out
the BOV and into the air).
> The stock setup does essentially the same
thing, only it vents
> the air back into the intake before the turbo
essentially
> creating a loop in the intake system for the boosted air to
flow through.
A dyslexic error on my part. Obviously it is after
the impeller since it is
in the pressurized portion of the intake track or
there would not be
pressure to vent. The rest is factual. Where
air is released by a BOV is a
matter of design. Most vent to
atmosphere, some vent back into the take
system.
> -Matt
>
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
Barry
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 21:22:40 -0600
From: "Oskar" <
swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
apex blow off valve and erratic idle
> Am I the only one who has not
ever experienced any problems whatsoever
> associated with an aftermarket
BOV, except for leaking above 19 psi?
>
I'm have the older style
HKS BOV and it works great. I have not experienced
any idle
problems. However, I experience some stumbling when letting off
the
throttle undler light boost and high RPMs. For example, when
running
60-70 mph in third gear under 5-7 PSI of boost. Under these
conditions I
will experience noticeable stumbling when closing the throttle
plate.
I accept this trade off as the real, or perceived, benefits of
this BOV
helps me run 12.6 passes at the track with stock 9Bs and fuel
system.
Oskar
'95 RT/T TT
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:51:07 EST
From: "Dg B" <
dbretton@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: GAB stuff
I guess I should have been more specific in my
post. I apologize.
The URL in my first post shows GAB coilover shocks,
as well as adjustable
valving shocks. Take a look.
http://www.optauto.com>
>GAB
adjustable struts are and have been available for the VR4 and other
NA
>models for quite some time. They are pretty easily the best of
the off the
>shelf
offerings.
>
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Your Private, Free Email at
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 21:31:18 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
GAB stuff
Ah. This is more interesting. Those do look
nice. If they have typical
GAB quality they should be good so long as
the spring rates are right (or
selectable as an option).
Good
find.
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I
guess I should have been more specific in my post. I apologize.
>
The URL in my first post shows GAB coilover shocks, as well as
adjustable
> valving shocks. Take a look.
>
http://www.optauto.com***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 18 Feb 2000 06:35:19 +0100
From: Matthews <
matthews@wiesbaden.vistec.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: apex blow off valve and erratic idle
"Barry E.
King" wrote:
>
> > > Are people resetting their ECUs
correctly after BOV
> > > installation to allow the ECU to relearn
idle
> > > characteristics? Are these BOVs being
installed
> > > correctly?
> >
> > If the BOV is
installed and functioning correctly, why would the
> > car have to
relearn how to idle? It should be fully closed at
> > vacuum with
no boost in the Y-pipe - same behavior as the stock
> > valve. If
it does something different than this, then that would
> > be
undesirable as you would be sucking in unfiltered (as well as
> >
unmetered) air through the BOV.
>
> Yet people are experiencing
idle problems. Maybe they have defective BOVs,
> maybe not.
The bottom line is the intake track has been modified, something
> has
been affected.
I thought it was just
gil_lee@usa.net who had idle problems (which
is why I
suggested a problem with his BOV). Are their others
experiencing poor idle as
well?
Most of us (all of us but Barry?) who
are complaining about aftermarket BOVs
have temporary stumbling problems when
we let off, but then everything is
normal. This is apparently caused by
atmospheric venting when the pressure
differential is such that the BOV
should be closed completely but isn't.
Tightening the spring adjustment
screw does help, but with mine all the way in
the problem is not
eliminated.
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.vistec.net
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews/stealth.html
(Europe)
http://members.stealth-3000gt.st/~matthews/stealth.html
(U.S.A.)
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS
6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N
FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec),
Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof
fluids
Abex metallic brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot
XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec
@ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft
torque
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:53:14 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
apex blow off valve and erratic idle
I have heard of and witnessed the
part throttle stumbling with BOVs vented
to atmosphere. My car does not
exhibit this behavior. I got the impression
from postings over the last
few years on the various lists that BOV problems
were somewhat of a common
issue, but perhaps my perception is incorrect.
Frankly, I was suprised that
so many people seemed to have such problems.
I have spent a great deal of
time tweaking everything currently adjustable
with the car (plugs, MASC, AFC,
BOV, boost controller, standard tuneup
items, and other things) and the car
had excellent throttle response and no
annoying drivability issues. I
tune it slightly differently for open road
romps vs. city driving. When
tuned for highway use there are some minor
in-town drivability issues (that
are easily tuned away) but it pays off with
outrageous top-end for open road
giggles.
We'll see what happens when (if?) I ever get off my butt and get
the car
going again. Mods are too numerous to list. My target is
an uncommonly
fast car (not the fastest) that stays together under mild
abuse. I do not
wish to rebuild the car (I mean car) again -- too much
time and money
involved. Some days an Olds looks rather
appealing...
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
I thought it was just
gil_lee@usa.net who
had idle problems
> (which is why I
> suggested a problem with his
BOV). Are their others experiencing
> poor idle as
>
well?
>
> Most of us (all of us but Barry?) who are complaining
about
> aftermarket BOVs
> have temporary stumbling problems when we
let off, but then everything is
> normal. This is apparently caused
by atmospheric venting when
> the pressure
> differential is such
that the BOV should be closed completely but isn't.
> Tightening the
spring adjustment screw does help, but with mine
> all the way in
>
the problem is not eliminated.
>
> --
> Jim Matthews -
Wiesbaden, Germany
>
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.vistec.net
(64 Kbps ISDN)
>
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews>
>
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
>
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews/stealth.html
(Europe)
>
http://members.stealth-3000gt.st/~matthews/stealth.html
(U.S.A.)
> Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS
6-spd
> Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
>
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
> A'PEXi Turbo Timer
(30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
> Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline
ShockProof fluids
> Abex metallic brake pads, custom braided brake
lines
> Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
> G-Tech
Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
> 1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406
SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
>
>
>
> ***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
>
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 23:58:29 -0500
From: Jason Barnhart <
phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: apex blow off valve and erratic idle
> I thought it was just
gil_lee@usa.net who had idle problems
(which is why I
> suggested a problem with his BOV). Are their
others experiencing poor idle as
> well?
I added my Blitz BOV while
replacing my tranny, therefore my batter was
out and the ECU had to
relearn. For roughly an hour of driving
afterwards it would sometimes
die after pushing in the clutch while
building boost. It slowly went
from dying to dropping down to a couple
hundred RPMs and within an hour it
was fine. I don't recall any SERIOUS
idle problems, but it does idle a
little rough at times, almost sounds
cammed. Certainly nothing to worry
about and I kinda like it. It does
want to fall on it's face if I level
the acceleration off while making a
few pounds of boost. I plan to fix
this, and other 'problems' with a
VPC or Haltech...
It does want to
backfire fairly regularly. This occurrence is somewhat
amplified by my
lack of cats and mufflers. Unfortunately I'm unable to
duplicate the
backfires at will >:) They vary from mild pops to 'run
for your
lives' explosions.
***Info:
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:57:15 -0500
From: "Michael Booker" <
mrbook@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
GAB stuff
I'm looking over this stuff and have a couple of questions. Do
these struts
come with new springs? Can you use the ground control spring kit
with this?
Or is the ground control kit a strut package as well? Thanks for
any input.
Matt
***Info:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm***
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 18 Feb 2000 18:20:31 -0800
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Fw:
Team3S: apex blow off valve and erratic idle
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Sam Shelat <
sshelat@erols.com>
To: Oskar <
swede@pclink.com>
Date: Friday,
February 18, 2000 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: apex blow off valve and
erratic idle
>
>
>
>>> Am I the only one
who has not ever experienced any problems whatsoever
>>> associated
with an aftermarket BOV, except for leaking above 19
psi?
>>>
>>
>I have the HKS SSBOV and have no idling
problems whatsoever. When I first
>installed it, under light pedal,
it would stumble with a quick lift of the
>throttle. I turned the
screw in 1/4 turn, and it went away at low speeds.
>I have an aftermarket
downpipe, and it bangs the underside of the car when
I
>let off the
throttle quick in lower gears (1st and 2nd) above 2000rpm.
I
do
>not know if its related. Seems like the engine rocks and
the Stillen DP
>moves with the motor (obviously), but the flex section (at
the end) allows
>the pipe to smack the side of the tranny. Other
than that, the BOV works
as
>expected.
>
>Sam 95
VR-4
>
***Info:
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------------------------------
End
of team3s V1 #61
********************
