team3s            Friday, February 4 2000            Volume 01 : Number 049




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 00:57:15 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Unorthodox Pulley Is Bad For Engine

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Benson \"elmagoo\" Russell wrote:

> >Unorthodox Pulleys are Bad For Your Engine.  One, last, time, to
> illustrate--
>
> --- the rest clipped to save internet band-width --
>
> Ok, I can only read soo much of a reply like this before I have to respond.
> I understand you have a difference of opinion, but can we please not OVER
> DRAMATISE an issue??  To me it invalidates your opinion even more and is
> really irritating to read.  I understood your point in about the first 2
> paragraphs, didn't need the extra 6 or so of reiteration all blown out of
> wack.

Ok, all I want to say is this.  Everyone has their own personality
and style of arguing an issue, even a technical issue.  I think we
should keep this in mind and respect other's writing/thinking styles
as well as feel free to express our own opinions/arguments in the
manner most comfortable to us so long as it remains relevant to
the technical issue at hand.  [whew]

- --Errin
Seattle



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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 01:19:37 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fuel Injector questions...

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Jeremy Barron wrote:

> Thanks for the advice, Roger. While I realize that the AFC does not

> replace the stock MAS, how restrictive is the MAS with the stock 9B

> turbos, especially considering that their boost falls off in the upper-rpm

> range?

According to some tests done a while ago by guys on the DSM list, the
stock MAS in our cars (same as a 2nd gen Eclipse) can flow 800cfm.

Stock 9B turbos flow 260cfm each at 15psi.  This isn't enough to sustain
15psi anywhere near redline, so maximum airflow is probably quite a bit
lower.  In any case, you're nowhere near maxing out the MAS.

Stock MAS should be big enough for 13Gs, and it might be close to big
enough for 15Gs (~420 cfm each) pushing only 15psi.  It seems to have
been sufficient for quite a few second-genners who have run 15Gs on the
stock MAS (i.e. w/o VPC).

> How much of a tangible benefit would I really see by using an ARC with

> the 83mm MAS (and probably having the TB bored out as well) while still

> having the stock turbos?

Probably none, unless you're using the ARC w/ larger injectors to keep
the ECU running in open loop (i.e. not putting your injectors wide open).

Question:  Why has nobody made a bigger MAS upgrade available for
our cars, preferably one without the additional tuning hardware (i.e. the
ARC-GP2)?  Frankly, I don't want to bother using the VPC or ARC
unless I need to, and the only reason I would need to is because the
MAS is getting maxed out airflow-wise.

Somebody pass this along to Brian at GT-Pro, and I'll mention it to
Mike at AAM.  Maybe they can come up with something.  It might
even appeal to NA owners (if only as a "superficial" upgrade).

> Secondly, is Jack T. the only turbo guy who has experimented with

> nitrous? Now before everyone starts shaking their heads at the prospect

> of that evil stuff grenading our engines, I am somewhat confident (;))that

> when done correctly, nitrous does not present much more of a threat

I've got nothing against NOS.  I say, more power to ya.  With 15G
turbos, forged pistons (maybe not necessary, but engine longevity
becomes an issue), and a 100+hp shot of NOS according to Mike
Mahaffey, "You'll be running 10's all day long."  I can't see why not
given the times accomplished by the 15Gs.  I want to see somebody
do this.  I'm tired of all these millions of stock engine block Supras
running 10's and more and more Supras in the single digits.  Plus now
we've got some major NSX projects coming out this year.  Somebody
get out there and DO something!  =)

- --Errin
Seattle



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:25:37 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: OEM struts

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- -----Original Message-----From: Alan Monarchi GANGUS@VNET.IBM.COM
>Also, does anyone know what a REASONABLE rate is for changing the 2
>front struts, 2 hours seems a little small, 3 hours seems about
>right, I was quoted 5.5 hours from Dodge which I think is
ridiculous.
>
>My local mitsu dealer (who has since closed down) quoted me 2.2
hours
>of labor.    I assume it's somewhere in between ?


When I went through my "Eibach Nightmare" last year, I was told by
the Dodge Dealer that it was the same amount of work for doing
springs as it was for struts.  The Eibach Site calls for 1.5 hrs for
the Front (1.3 hrs for the Rear), but it appears that dealers use
higher numbers for *billable* hours-- about TWICE as high.  Even
though the guys on the list that have done it before say it 'doesn't
take long', the numbers varied...  Your 3 hour figure sounds just
about right.  Then add $50 to $100 for an all-around alignment to
get your total.  But 5.5 hours DOES sound ridiculous, unless they
were including the alignment...

You might want to ask the Dealer if they give 'group' discounts, and
ask if they want to be on the Team3S "Good Guys Vendor Pages".
(Which I'm still organizing...).  Most of the vendors involved so
far give discounts of 15% to 25% for parts and 10% to 20% for labor.
You may also want to ask the service manager to check his/her
figures, since others in our group have said their estimate is high.
Make it known that almost 600 other members and 17,000+ people a
month that visit our website are going to KNOW what they charged
you.  I've got a Team3S "Vendor Introduction" letter available in
Word7 format, complete with the Team3S letterhead, available if you
or anyone else wants it.  It will be up on the website soon, but in
the meantime, just email me privately for a copy.

Good luck,

Forrest





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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:03:47 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Re: Fuel cut problem.

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


I Just wanted to mention that I had fuel cut running the VPC with 550cc inj
and the HKS/Denzo fuel pump.
I had to get the ECU done to finally avoid the fuel cut.
Arty 91 VR-4

In a message dated 2/4/00 12:50:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
errin@u.washington.edu writes:

<< Subj:     Re: Fuel cut problem.
Date:  2/4/00 12:50:08 AM Pacific Standard Time
From:  errin@u.washington.edu (Errin Humphrey)
Reply-to:  stealth@starnet.net
To:    stealth@starnet.net (Starnet), Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st (Team3S)

Jack,

xwing wrote:

> AFC can work but it's very coarse "low throttle map, high throttle map"

> rather than the VPC gradual mapping is not as good IMO;

I didn't get a chance to bring this up last time I discussed this
w >>


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:31:34 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fuel Injector questions...

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


> According to some tests done a while ago by guys on the DSM list, the
> stock MAS in our cars (same as a 2nd gen Eclipse) can flow 800cfm.

Again, I like to se the test figures.

> Stock 9B turbos flow 260cfm each at 15psi.  This isn't enough to sustain
> 15psi anywhere near redline, so maximum airflow is probably quite a bit
> lower.  In any case, you're nowhere near maxing out the MAS.

Ok, you have the flows out of any map, right ? Please send me the 9b, 13g and 15g maps as I need them for my calcs.

> Stock MAS should be big enough for 13Gs, and it might be close to big
> enough for 15Gs (~420 cfm each) pushing only 15psi.  It seems to have
> been sufficient for quite a few second-genners who have run 15Gs on the
> stock MAS (i.e. w/o VPC).

Ahem, who wants only to boost up to 15 psi anyways. If the upgrade is done we wanna play games !!

> > How much of a tangible benefit would I really see by using an ARC with
> > the 83mm MAS (and probably having the TB bored out as well) while still
> > having the stock turbos?
>
> Probably none, unless you're using the ARC w/ larger injectors to keep
> the ECU running in open loop (i.e. not putting your injectors wide open).

I guess somebody is mixing different wordings here. Open-Loop means the ECU uses table vlaues for the injectors without looking at the O2 sensors !! This has nothing to do with the injectors beiing wide open.

> Question:  Why has nobody made a bigger MAS upgrade available for
> our cars, preferably one without the additional tuning hardware (i.e. the
> ARC-GP2)?  Frankly, I don't want to bother using the VPC or ARC
> unless I need to, and the only reason I would need to is because the
> MAS is getting maxed out airflow-wise.

Same answer in the other mail ... please only use one thread !!

> Somebody pass this along to Brian at GT-Pro, and I'll mention it to
> Mike at AAM.  Maybe they can come up with something.  It might
> even appeal to NA owners (if only as a "superficial" upgrade).

Come on, why would an NA benefit of a larger MAS or a bored TB ? The ARC is or will be available for the NAs but I only see a benefit if other mods have been done (headwork).

> turbos, forged pistons (maybe not necessary, but engine longevity
> becomes an issue), and a 100+hp shot of NOS according to Mike

I'd never run NOX without forged pistons !

> Mahaffey, "You'll be running 10's all day long."  I can't see why not
> given the times accomplished by the 15Gs.  I want to see somebody
> do this.

Why not you ??

> I'm tired of all these millions of stock engine block Supras
> running 10's and more and more Supras in the single digits.  Plus now
> we've got some major NSX projects coming out this year.  Somebody
> get out there and DO something!  =)

Thanks Errin for playing the volunteer, hehe.... But I need a daily driver for now ;-)

Simply said, put a Supra engine into the bay and your done. LOL ! No, to be serious, our cars will only see 10s with nitrous. It's simply physics and you must be prepared that the tranny and transfer case as well the diff will go south damn quick....just my add to "all day long". And when speaking of Supras, juts ask them how much turbo failures they have with the sequential system (speaking of stock with boost turned up). A MKIV needs 1.3 bars of boost to get the same power as we do with 1.1bars. This is due to the fact that their timing is much more retarded. But also the Toyota inline 6 is much more stable against knock than our "dual three-cyl" engine. The Hondas have a much more intelligent headwork on the engine than ours but this makes the stuff a lill easier.

Check out the single digit Supras with 800hp to 1000hp ... do they have AWD, AWS or do they even have ABS (only a few above the 650hp club do) ? Also check out how many MKIV are running in circle track events ? Also how many have a total carbon front to save weight.

I'm sure, with special pistons, rings, rod and pinions, headwork, two 20G turbos, ARC with 100mm MAF, bored TB, headers, straight exhaust, dual fuel lines, 720cc, water & alcohol injection, extended fuel rails, large AFPRs (Paxton), special treated parts in the tranny and cases, mega multi hold clutch, carbon hood and fenders, removing the rear glass, striping the interior, smaller wheels with bigger, stickier tires, minimum brake system and running at 2 bars of boost......I'd feel like Dr.Strangelove riding on a bomb ! This baby would push out 800 hp as the injectors are able to give 900 horses or energy at 95% IDC at 29 psi. Air flow is then (182in^3 * 7000rpm * 0.5 *0.9 * 3.0 (2.0 bars of boost)) / 1728 = ca. 1000 cfm. The large turbos will then start to run into a worser efficiency field but is still not that dramatic !

I wonder how long it will take till my tranny breaks...

Roger
93'3000GT TT


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:27:46 -0500
From: "Michael D. Romano" <mdr-nhl@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Hi folks!

I tracked down a 1993 black 3000GT VR-4 here in Northern Ohio, that the
seller (2nd owner) is claiming has 14,000 miles on it. To me, this sounds
kinda suspicious...
How can I tell if the odo was tampered with? I plan on checking the general
wear indicators on the car, but am I going to have to get a dealership
involved to verify the miles? I'm not sure I'm up to the task of yanking the
instrument pod out to look...or even if he'd allow me to do such a thing.

Your thoughts?



- -Mike
'93 Stealth ES



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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 07:56:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Mike,

I don't know how to check the odometer for tampering, but I
personally would not buy another 3/S turbo without a consistent
set of service/maintenance records from the owner. The records
should document the mileage over the years and how much the
owner cared for the car. As an aside, I saw a perfect '93
Stealth TT in 1998 with only 6000 miles on it. The woman simply
loved the car and did not drive it much - and would take $20K
for it. Only my limited finances kept me from owning a second
Stealth.

Good luck in your search,

Jeff Lucius
Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D. Romano" <mdr-nhl@worldnet.att.net>
To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 8:27 AM
Subject: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

Hi folks!

I tracked down a 1993 black 3000GT VR-4 here in Northern Ohio,
that the seller (2nd owner) is claiming has 14,000 miles on it.
To me, this sounds kinda suspicious... How can I tell if the odo
was tampered with? I plan on checking the general wear ndicators
on the car, but am I going to have to get a dealership involved
to verify the miles? I'm not sure I'm up to the task of yanking
the instrument pod out to look...or even if he'd allow me to do
such a thing.

Your thoughts?

- -Mike
'93 Stealth ES




__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com


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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:58:21 -0500
From: Rick D <rick@ceo-consulting.com>
Subject: Team3S: Groaning noise coming from Steering wheel

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HELP!   My steering wheel has recently developed a groaning noise.  I
cannot for the life of me, determine where EXACTLY it is coming from... any
ideas?  Anybody else's car doing this?

Thanks in advance to anyone who responds,

Rick





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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:40:40 -0600
From: "Landis, Michael" <MLandis@casham.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Groaning noise coming from Steering wheel

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


I used to have a Prelude that had a leaky power steering fluid hose, and
would "groan" when I turned the wheel when the power steering fluid got too
low.  Might check your PS fluid level...

Michael
'92 3000GT/SL

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick D [SMTP:rick@ceo-consulting.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:58 AM
> To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: Groaning noise coming from Steering wheel
>
> ***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***
>
>
> HELP!   My steering wheel has recently developed a groaning noise.  I
> cannot for the life of me, determine where EXACTLY it is coming from...
> any
> ideas?  Anybody else's car doing this?
>
> Thanks in advance to anyone who responds,
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>
> *** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S list address:
> team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 08:45:27 -0800
From: "Darcy" <w.c.e@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Mike;

I do not have personal experience with odometers, however, I was reliably
informed that once the new (after the mid-late 80's) odometers have tracked
past a milestone (adding another 0) that they imprint this new figure in
indelable ink, so even if they are spun backwards, the figure is still there
for those who know what to look for. Sorry I cannot be of more help, but at
the time that the explanation was offered, it sounded fine and I did not
bother to question the party (a used car dealer) in depth. Hope this helps.

Best

Darc
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Lucius" <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
To: "Michael D. Romano" <mdr-nhl@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!


> ***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***
>
>
> Mike,
>
> I don't know how to check the odometer for tampering, but I
> personally would not buy another 3/S turbo without a consistent
> set of service/maintenance records from the owner. The records
> should document the mileage over the years and how much the
> owner cared for the car. As an aside, I saw a perfect '93
> Stealth TT in 1998 with only 6000 miles on it. The woman simply
> loved the car and did not drive it much - and would take $20K
> for it. Only my limited finances kept me from owning a second
> Stealth.
>
> Good luck in your search,
>
> Jeff Lucius
> Red 1992 Stealth TT - modified
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael D. Romano" <mdr-nhl@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 8:27 AM
> Subject: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!
>
> Hi folks!
>
> I tracked down a 1993 black 3000GT VR-4 here in Northern Ohio,
> that the seller (2nd owner) is claiming has 14,000 miles on it.
> To me, this sounds kinda suspicious... How can I tell if the odo
> was tampered with? I plan on checking the general wear ndicators
> on the car, but am I going to have to get a dealership involved
> to verify the miles? I'm not sure I'm up to the task of yanking
> the instrument pod out to look...or even if he'd allow me to do
> such a thing.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> -Mike
> '93 Stealth ES
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
>
>
> *** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S list address:
> team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subscribe/unsubscribe and all other important info is at:
> http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm ***



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 09:29:54 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Just phone in the VIN to your local dealer, or better yet his dealer (if he ever
took it in for any service such as oil change, etc).  Ask them for a service
profile on the VIN.  If the dealer is reluctant, tell them you are considering
buying a used car and will want the dealer to perform a "pre-purchase vehicle
inspection" (should cost you about $100).   Also ask the seller for any service
receipts, they usually record the milage on receipts.

Good luck,
Ken

> I tracked down a 1993 black 3000GT VR-4 here in Northern Ohio, that the
> seller (2nd owner) is claiming has 14,000 miles on it. To me, this sounds
> kinda suspicious...
> How can I tell if the odo was tampered with? I plan on checking the general
> wear indicators on the car, but am I going to have to get a dealership
> involved to verify the miles? I'm not sure I'm up to the task of yanking the
> instrument pod out to look...or even if he'd allow me to do such a thing.

- --
If you're not the lead car, your view never changes!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego


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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 09:38:39 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Fuel cut problem.

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Errin Humphrey wrote:
snip
> but I'm just trying to justify a reason to stay away from the VPC
> and the ARC, both of which I've heard so many negative things
> about.  :)  I REALLY wish that someone would make a larger
snip

Please share the many negative things you've heard.  I have only heard positive
things about the ARC, mostly from Roger's past posts and Split Second's web
pages ;).  Are people having trouble with it, is it difficult to tune, does it
not work, is performance poorer than expected, does it break?  Do tell...

Thanks,
Ken

- --
If you're not the lead car, your view never changes!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego


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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:03:52 -0600
From: "Mike Rappe" <mrappe@flash.net>
Subject: Team3S: AWD transmition bump sound.

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


In July I bought a 93 VR4 that had 55K on it and was well taken care of.
Most
people that see the car think that it is a new car (If they don't know
anything
about the 3000gt). In September I was driving to work and the tranny went
out
all of a sudden with no warning. I was just taking off from a light (normal
driving)
and it went crunch. I stopped and had it towed to a Mitsu dealer and they
said that the whole trans and transfer case needed replacing. They said that
it did not run out of
oil and that they could not tell why it went out. They had to order the
stuff from Germany
and since I wanted the car and it was not worth much without the trans I
agreed to have
it replaced with a factory rebuilt one. Since they were already in there I
had them replace the clutch also. The whole thing cost about $6500.00
including labor. I have been driving the car to work daily and just started
noticing that most of the time when I shift from 1st
to second I hear/feel a bump. from 2nd to 3rd I sometimes also feel it but
it is lower and
softer. I am not sure if it had been doing that before or whether I am now
just noticing
it as a result of paranoia that I will have another trans failure. I am not
popping the clutch
and sometimes I hear it  before the clutch is released but mostly not until
it is released.
It is not an obviously jarring or intrusive sound but still it is there.
Does anyone else with
a AWD experience this?



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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 18:19:47 GMT
From: "Tim DeKeyser" <tdekeyser@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AWD transmition bump sound.

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


I have a 91 Stealth R/T, and the tranny went out around 90K miles. Cost me
$5500 for a new one. Feels like a virgin!

Tim


- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Mike Rappe" <mrappe@flash.net>
Reply-To: "Mike Rappe" <mrappe@flash.net>
To: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: AWD transmition bump sound.
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:03:52 -0600

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


In July I bought a 93 VR4 that had 55K on it and was well taken care of.
Most
people that see the car think that it is a new car (If they don't know
anything
about the 3000gt). In September I was driving to work and the tranny went
out
all of a sudden with no warning. I was just taking off from a light (normal
driving)
and it went crunch. I stopped and had it towed to a Mitsu dealer and they
said that the whole trans and transfer case needed replacing. They said that
it did not run out of
oil and that they could not tell why it went out. They had to order the
stuff from Germany
and since I wanted the car and it was not worth much without the trans I
agreed to have
it replaced with a factory rebuilt one. Since they were already in there I
had them replace the clutch also. The whole thing cost about $6500.00
including labor. I have been driving the car to work daily and just started
noticing that most of the time when I shift from 1st
to second I hear/feel a bump. from 2nd to 3rd I sometimes also feel it but
it is lower and
softer. I am not sure if it had been doing that before or whether I am now
just noticing
it as a result of paranoia that I will have another trans failure. I am not
popping the clutch
and sometimes I hear it  before the clutch is released but mostly not until
it is released.
It is not an obviously jarring or intrusive sound but still it is there.
Does anyone else with
a AWD experience this?



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:54:17 -0600
From: "Mike Rappe" <mrappe@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AWD transmition bump sound.

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***



The bumb seems to be comming from under the car but the shifter itself is
smooth.



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 13:03:48 -0600
From: "cody" <overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


You should be able to carefully visually inspect the instrument pod for
screwdriver signs.  If there are any screwdriver marks whatsoever, then it
probably has been changed.  This is why in my last post, (to the starnet
list) I said it was good to NOT remove the instrument cluster - especialy n
a low milage car - it gives a way that the odo could have been changed...

Cody

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Elkin [mailto:markelkin@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:49 AM
To: Stealth@Starnet. Net
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!


Ask the owner for records of oil changes...tire changes...or any other
service ever performed on the vehicle.  You should see dates and mileage on
the work orders/receipts.  I knew a guy who rolled his odo back and got
caught by a receipt where he had tires replaced.

Mark 96 VR-4
>


>
> Hi folks!
>
> I tracked down a 1993 black 3000GT VR-4 here in Northern Ohio, that the
> seller (2nd owner) is claiming has 14,000 miles on it. To me, this sounds
> kinda suspicious...
> How can I tell if the odo was tampered with? I plan on checking
> the general
> wear indicators on the car, but am I going to have to get a dealership
> involved to verify the miles? I'm not sure I'm up to the task of
> yanking the
> instrument pod out to look...or even if he'd allow me to do such a thing.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
>
>
> -Mike
> '93 Stealth ES
>




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:05:44 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AWD transmition bump sound.

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***



> The bumb seems to be comming from under the car but the shifter itself is
> smooth.

Do you feel this "bump" when shifting from neutral to 1st?  If so, then one
possibility is the clutch is not completely disengaging when you push the pedal
to the floor.  If this is the case, you need to adjust (lengthen) the bolt that
goes from the clutch pedal to the clutch vacuum booster.  Note, "a little
adjustment goes a long way", move in 1/2 or 1/4 turn increments.

- --
If you're not the lead car, your view never changes!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego


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------------------------------

Date: 4 Feb 00 11:12:57 PST
From: Gil Lee <gil_lee@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!]

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


www.carfax.com

"cody" <overclck@flash.net> wrote:
> ***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***
>
>
> You should be able to carefully visually inspect the instrument pod for
> screwdriver signs.  If there are any screwdriver marks whatsoever, then it
> probably has been changed.  This is why in my last post, (to the starnet
> list) I said it was good to NOT remove the instrument cluster - especialy n
> a low milage car - it gives a way that the odo could have been changed...
>
> Cody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Elkin [mailto:markelkin@mindspring.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:49 AM
> To: Stealth@Starnet. Net
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!
>
>
> Ask the owner for records of oil changes...tire changes...or any other
> service ever performed on the vehicle.  You should see dates and mileage on
> the work orders/receipts.  I knew a guy who rolled his odo back and got
> caught by a receipt where he had tires replaced.
>
> Mark 96 VR-4
> >
>
>
> >
> > Hi folks!
> >
> > I tracked down a 1993 black 3000GT VR-4 here in Northern Ohio, that the
> > seller (2nd owner) is claiming has 14,000 miles on it. To me, this sounds
> > kinda suspicious...
> > How can I tell if the odo was tampered with? I plan on checking
> > the general
> > wear indicators on the car, but am I going to have to get a dealership
> > involved to verify the miles? I'm not sure I'm up to the task of
> > yanking the
> > instrument pod out to look...or even if he'd allow me to do such a thing.
> >
> > Your thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> > -Mike
> > '93 Stealth ES
> >
>
>
>
>
> *** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S list address:
> team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:09:32 -0500
From: Rick D <rick@ceo-consulting.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AWD transmition bump sound.

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


At 11:05 AM 2/4/00 -0800, Ken Middaugh wrote:
>***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***
>
>
>
> > The bumb seems to be comming from under the car but the shifter itself is
> > smooth.
>
>Do you feel this "bump" when shifting from neutral to 1st?  If so, then one
>possibility is the clutch is not completely disengaging when you push the
>pedal
>to the floor.  If this is the case, you need to adjust (lengthen) the bolt
>that
>goes from the clutch pedal to the clutch vacuum booster.  Note, "a little
>adjustment goes a long way", move in 1/2 or 1/4 turn increments.


I have driven about 5 different R/T turbos. (from 91 to 95)  *Every single
one* I have driven has done *exactly* what you just mentioned Ken.   When
shifting from neutral into 1st you can hear/feel a "thud" noise.  (for lack
of a better description).  I always wondered what that was!

Thanks,

Rick
94 R/T turbo
<mine still does that "thud" from time to time...>





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------------------------------

End of team3s V1 #49
********************


team3s            Friday, February 4 2000            Volume 01 : Number 050




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 13:17:04 -0600
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


I'm not sure how long they have been doing it, but the new cars record
mileage in two places.  One is obviously the odometer.  The other?....You
guessed it, the ECU.  The cars computer keeps a running total of mileage.  A
scan tool at the dealer would be able to read the vehicles correct mileage.
Like I said, I don't know how long they have been doing this, but I susspect
since the onset of electronic speedometers/odometers that use a vehicle
speed/distance sensor.  Which would mean all of the 3/S cars.

John Basol
'95 RT/TT


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D. Romano [SMTP:mdr-nhl@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:28 AM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Hi folks!

I tracked down a 1993 black 3000GT VR-4 here in Northern Ohio, that
the
seller (2nd owner) is claiming has 14,000 miles on it. To me, this
sounds
kinda suspicious...
How can I tell if the odo was tampered with? I plan on checking the
general
wear indicators on the car, but am I going to have to get a
dealership
involved to verify the miles? I'm not sure I'm up to the task of
yanking the
instrument pod out to look...or even if he'd allow me to do such a
thing.

Your thoughts?



-Mike
'93 Stealth ES



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 13:25:28 -0600
From: "Mike Rappe" <mrappe@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AWD transmition bump sound.

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***




>Do you feel this "bump" when shifting from neutral to 1st? 
ANSWER: No. I only feel it when shifting from 1st to second and then
not every time. Rarely I feel it when shifting from 2nd to 3rd.
From 1st to 2nd  about 7 out of 10 times.



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:32:16 -0800
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


I dunno about that.

I dont know of any ECUs that have any long-term NVRAM about them.  Most I know
of are all short term (less than 1 minute) and only have code and specifics in
ROM.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Basol, John [mailto:jbasol@Carlson.com]
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 11:17 AM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!


***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


I'm not sure how long they have been doing it, but the new cars record
mileage in two places.  One is obviously the odometer.  The other?....You
guessed it, the ECU.  The cars computer keeps a running total of mileage.  A
scan tool at the dealer would be able to read the vehicles correct mileage.
Like I said, I don't know how long they have been doing this, but I susspect
since the onset of electronic speedometers/odometers that use a vehicle
speed/distance sensor.  Which would mean all of the 3/S cars.

John Basol
'95 RT/TT


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D. Romano [SMTP:mdr-nhl@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:28 AM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Hi folks!

I tracked down a 1993 black 3000GT VR-4 here in Northern Ohio, that
the
seller (2nd owner) is claiming has 14,000 miles on it. To me, this
sounds
kinda suspicious...
How can I tell if the odo was tampered with? I plan on checking the
general
wear indicators on the car, but am I going to have to get a
dealership
involved to verify the miles? I'm not sure I'm up to the task of
yanking the
instrument pod out to look...or even if he'd allow me to do such a
thing.

Your thoughts?



-Mike
'93 Stealth ES



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:36:23 -0800
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


I will back that up knowing for a fact, that I have never, on any car Ive worked
on, had to specify a particular ECU part number or any other designation based
on a gear ratio (most 2wd cars come in different ones) and in some cases not
even between auto and manual (definite massive change) has there been any ECU
part/ID differences.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:36:02 -0700
From: "Kevin Fanciulli" <StealthTwinTurbo@bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: AWD transmition bump sound.

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Add my '92 RT/TT to the list of those that make this noise.  I feel a thud
when the clutch is all the way in and I put it from neutral to 1st.  I have
tried the clutch lengthening, messed around with it for hours and it seemed
to do basically nothing. :)

I'm having my transmission replaced right now, we'll see if it still does it
w/ a new one.

- -kevin fanciulli
'92 Stealth RT/TT
3Si #0375

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Rick D
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 12:10 PM
To: Ken Middaugh; Mike Rappe
Cc: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: AWD transmition bump sound.


***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


At 11:05 AM 2/4/00 -0800, Ken Middaugh wrote:
>***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***
>
>
>
> > The bumb seems to be comming from under the car but the shifter itself
is
> > smooth.
>
>Do you feel this "bump" when shifting from neutral to 1st?  If so, then one
>possibility is the clutch is not completely disengaging when you push the
>pedal
>to the floor.  If this is the case, you need to adjust (lengthen) the bolt
>that
>goes from the clutch pedal to the clutch vacuum booster.  Note, "a little
>adjustment goes a long way", move in 1/2 or 1/4 turn increments.


I have driven about 5 different R/T turbos. (from 91 to 95)  *Every single
one* I have driven has done *exactly* what you just mentioned Ken.   When
shifting from neutral into 1st you can hear/feel a "thud" noise.  (for lack
of a better description).  I always wondered what that was!

Thanks,

Rick
94 R/T turbo
<mine still does that "thud" from time to time...>





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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:38:31 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AWD transmition bump sound.

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Rick D wrote:

> > > The bumb seems to be comming from under the car but the shifter itself is
> > > smooth.
> >
> >Do you feel this "bump" when shifting from neutral to 1st?  If so, then one
> >possibility is the clutch is not completely disengaging when you push the
> >pedal
> >to the floor.  If this is the case, you need to adjust (lengthen) the bolt
> >that
> >goes from the clutch pedal to the clutch vacuum booster.  Note, "a little
> >adjustment goes a long way", move in 1/2 or 1/4 turn increments.
>
> I have driven about 5 different R/T turbos. (from 91 to 95)  *Every single
> one* I have driven has done *exactly* what you just mentioned Ken.   When
> shifting from neutral into 1st you can hear/feel a "thud" noise.  (for lack
> of a better description).  I always wondered what that was!
>
> Thanks,

Yes, this is a very common problem with a very easy & inexpensive (free) fix.
However, this symptom could also be the fault of the clutch slave cylinder ($40
new,  $8 for a rebuild kit) or the clutch master cylinder ($78 new) or even the
vacuum booster ($150?).

I just installed a rebuild kit on my clutch slave cylinder.  I had installed a
new clutch slave cylinder about 15 months ago and the seal just blew out!  I
inspected the seal and it was ripped & worn! 

- --
If you're not the lead car, your view never changes!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:47:42 EST
From: DSMDealer1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


In a message dated 2/4/2000 2:30:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jeff.mohler@netapp.com writes:

<< I will back that up knowing for a fact, that I have never, on any car Ive
worked
on, had to specify a particular ECU part number or any other designation
based
on a gear ratio (most 2wd cars come in different ones) and in some cases not
even between auto and manual (definite massive change) has there been any ECU
part/ID differences. >>

Yes, this is something that was talked about being incorporated into OBDIII a
few years back.  Nothing on the 3KGT or Stealth would include this into the
ECU.

Josh


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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:57:11 -0800
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


If you ask me, incorporating PC style RAM management into a car ECU would bring
a lot of unreliability into the car itself, you would have to bring in milspec
style casings, environmentals, and very special PCB techniques.

NVRAM would also require batteries, which would need maintenance, can leak,
corrode..etc..etc

- -----Original Message-----
From: DSMDealer1@aol.com [mailto:DSMDealer1@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 11:48 AM
To: jeff.mohler@netapp.com; team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!


In a message dated 2/4/2000 2:30:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jeff.mohler@netapp.com writes:

<< I will back that up knowing for a fact, that I have never, on any car Ive
worked
on, had to specify a particular ECU part number or any other designation
based
on a gear ratio (most 2wd cars come in different ones) and in some cases not
even between auto and manual (definite massive change) has there been any ECU
part/ID differences. >>

Yes, this is something that was talked about being incorporated into OBDIII a
few years back.  Nothing on the 3KGT or Stealth would include this into the
ECU.

Josh


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 13:59:51 -0600
From: "cody" <overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Anything that "could" be stored would be erased as soon as electicity was
removed from it.  Thus your average battery change, air filter swap, etc.
would erase the contents...

Cody



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 15:14:30 -0500
From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
Subject: Team3S: Ground Control Installation Project

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Hey Guys,  I have purchased a ground control kit and new OEM struts and will
be installing these myself.  Bob Forrest has asked  that I do a pictorial
and write up of the installation process for addition to the Team 3s web
page.

I know that many of you have already done this particular install and found
solutions to and problems encountered. I am a true believer in a team
approach so I would like to get as much information from everyone that has
anything they would like to contribute.

If you are aware of any special tools that are a must to do the job or good
work around it would be most helpful also.

I look forward to your replies and will compile the information to give it
all back.

Thanks,

Bob Rand
93 Stealth TT




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 12:17:26 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Team3S: Bushing replacement, front end clunking gone

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


After replacing my struts and the anti sway bar end links, much of my front end
clunking disappeared.  However I still had a little clunking whenever I hit
bumps.  Before  replacing the whole A-arm assemblies, I decided to try the anti
sway bar bushings.  This did the trick!  All (front end) clunking is
eliminated.  They are extremely easy to replace (in the front) and only cost a
few bucks each!  I'll probably replace these routinely (once every year or two)
since it only takes a few minutes each after the front wheels are removed.
Anyone with front end clunking should try this first, before the end links and
before the struts.

However, the rear bushings are a little more difficult to get at.  Has anyone
successfully replaced these?  Any tricks or suggestions?
- --
If you're not the lead car, your view never changes!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:17:35 -0600
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


That's right, you wouldn't need to.  The Vehicle/Speed Distance Sensor is an
electronic device that attaches to the transmission.  There is a gear on the
VSDS that will be mated correctly to the car to compensate for such things
as final drive ratio of the transmission and tire diameter.  A FWD car will
have a different gear than an AWD car. 

I know for fact the ECU on my new Eclipse has mileage info.  The part about
the NVRAM is correct, the ECU would have to have some NVRAM to make this
work.  I haven't looked at the schematics to see if the ECU in my stealth
has an input for the VSDS.

It is possible that this function is not incorporated into the 3S cars, but
it sure doesn't hurt to ask, now does it?

John Basol
'95 RT/TT
'00 Eclipse GT


-----Original Message-----
From: Mohler, Jeff [SMTP:jeff.mohler@netapp.com]
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 1:36 PM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


I will back that up knowing for a fact, that I have never, on any
car Ive worked
on, had to specify a particular ECU part number or any other
designation based
on a gear ratio (most 2wd cars come in different ones) and in some
cases not
even between auto and manual (definite massive change) has there
been any ECU
part/ID differences.


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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:26:26 -0800
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ground Control Installation Project

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One question I have for the list in general here...is will the OEM struts have
enough damping to control the car when its going to be lowered on stiffer
springs?

..not to mention adjustable height.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Rand [mailto:rtr@vnet.net]
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 12:15 PM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Ground Control Installation Project


***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Hey Guys,  I have purchased a ground control kit and new OEM struts and will
be installing these myself.  Bob Forrest has asked  that I do a pictorial
and write up of the installation process for addition to the Team 3s web
page.

I know that many of you have already done this particular install and found
solutions to and problems encountered. I am a true believer in a team
approach so I would like to get as much information from everyone that has
anything they would like to contribute.

If you are aware of any special tools that are a must to do the job or good
work around it would be most helpful also.

I look forward to your replies and will compile the information to give it
all back.

Thanks,

Bob Rand
93 Stealth TT




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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:32:39 -0600
From: wizards <wizards@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

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Even if the ECU is reset?   Just curious.

Greg



"Basol, John" wrote:

> ***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***
>
> I'm not sure how long they have been doing it, but the new cars record
> mileage in two places.  One is obviously the odometer.  The other?....You
> guessed it, the ECU.  The cars computer keeps a running total of mileage.  A
> scan tool at the dealer would be able to read the vehicles correct mileage.
> Like I said, I don't know how long they have been doing this, but I susspect
> since the onset of electronic speedometers/odometers that use a vehicle
> speed/distance sensor.  Which would mean all of the 3/S cars.
>
> John Basol
> '95 RT/TT
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From:   Michael D. Romano [SMTP:mdr-nhl@worldnet.att.net]
>         Sent:   Friday, February 04, 2000 9:28 AM
>         To:     team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
>         Subject:        Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!
>
>         ***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***
>
>         Hi folks!
>
>         I tracked down a 1993 black 3000GT VR-4 here in Northern Ohio, that
> the
>         seller (2nd owner) is claiming has 14,000 miles on it. To me, this
> sounds
>         kinda suspicious...
>         How can I tell if the odo was tampered with? I plan on checking the
> general
>         wear indicators on the car, but am I going to have to get a
> dealership
>         involved to verify the miles? I'm not sure I'm up to the task of
> yanking the
>         instrument pod out to look...or even if he'd allow me to do such a
> thing.
>
>         Your thoughts?
>
>         -Mike
>         '93 Stealth ES
>
>         *** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S list address:
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>
> *** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S list address:
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 15:38:18 EST
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Groaning noise coming from Steering wheel

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Rick:

    There was actually a TSB on that.  The fix IF I RECALL was to remove the
airbag so that you can access the steering wheel bearing and spray it with
WD-40.  Don't do anything until I have had a chance to verify that.  But if
the groaning comes when you turn the wheel, that's probably the problem. 
I'll try to post the TSB tonight.

Joe 91TT


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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:41:25 -0800
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\" Russell" <benson@2015.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ground Control Installation Project

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


>One question I have for the list in general here...is will the OEM struts
have
>enough damping to control the car when its going to be lowered on stiffer
>springs?

>..not to mention adjustable height.

If I'm correct, the Ground Control is by Eibach right?  The stock struts
should be fine.  I have a set of Eibach springs installed on my car, with
nothing else, and the car is just fine.  A few months later I took it to the
dealer for it's 30K service, and specifically asked them to check the
suspension.  They said everything was in excellent shape no problems.  The
only thing I've noticed is when going over a sharp bump, that I get some
kind of a tapping sound from the back left of the car (don't know how else
to describe it, it sounds as if some one was lightly tapping a hammer on a
plastic stud).  I told the dealer about this when I took it in to get looked
at, they said they heard the sound, checked everything, and don't see
anything wrong with it.  It's not scraping the wheel well in anyway, and the
car doesn't bottom out ever.  But she rides great, handles better than with
the stock springs, has a firmer ride now.  I don't know what your asking
about the adjustability (as in, are you asking if you wanted to pick a
different lowered height down the road you could just make some adjustments
with the same system)?  But that's probably a feature you get buying the
whole kit rather than just the springs :).

Latuh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:36:26 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ground Control Installation Project

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***



>
>One question I have for the list in general here...is will the OEM struts
have
>enough damping to control the car when its going to be lowered on stiffer
>springs? ..not to mention adjustable height.


I have been informed that Eibachs will wear out the OEM struts very
quickly, and my next major investement oughta be a new set of GAB struts.
So far, so good.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4


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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:33:59 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ground Control Installation Project

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


>Hey Guys,  I have purchased a ground control kit and new OEM struts and will
>be installing these myself.  Bob Forrest has asked  that I do a pictorial
>and write up of the installation process for addition to the Team 3s web
>page. I know that many of you have already done this particular install
and found
>solutions to and problems encountered. I am a true believer in a team
>approach so I would like to get as much information from everyone that has
>anything they would like to contribute.

Dennis Bretton ("Dennis G. Bretton " <dbretton@cs.uml.edu>)  has a killer
web page where he explains how to put the GC kit in, with photos. I have it
printed out and in my notebook, but I don't have the web site address.
Contact Dennis and ask him WTF his page is.  We used it as the bible when
we did my GC installation, and it would have been a bitch otherwise. The GC
instructions are...well, incomplete, to be kind.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:51:36 -0600
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fuel Injector questions...

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


> I've got nothing against NOS.  I say, more power to ya.  With 15G
> turbos, forged pistons (maybe not necessary, but engine longevity
> becomes an issue), and a 100+hp shot of NOS according to Mike
> Mahaffey, "You'll be running 10's all day long."  I can't see why not
> given the times accomplished by the 15Gs.  I want to see somebody
> do this.

Then how come nobody other than Jack has run 10's?  If it is so easy, then there should be more 3S cars in the 10's.  How can Mike say this if he hasn't done it himself?

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4


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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:12:18 -0500
From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ground Control Installation Project

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Tony at Ground control said the oem struts were a good choice the GAB's a
better one.  I hope the OEM struts hold up as I already made the purchase.
But I have read lots of posts with good comments on the oem struts. I guess
time will tell on this issue.

Hoping oem is a non issue,  Bob

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To: Mohler, Jeff <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>; <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 3:36 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ground Control Installation Project


> ***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***
>
>
>
> >
> >One question I have for the list in general here...is will the OEM struts
> have
> >enough damping to control the car when its going to be lowered on stiffer
> >springs? ..not to mention adjustable height.
>
>
> I have been informed that Eibachs will wear out the OEM struts very
> quickly, and my next major investement oughta be a new set of GAB struts.
> So far, so good.
>
> Rich/old poop/94 VR4
>
>
> *** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S list address:
> team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
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> http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm ***
>




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 16:34:05 EST
From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ground Control Installation Project

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***



Woo-hoo!  Thanks poop! :)

>
>Dennis Bretton ("Dennis G. Bretton " <dbretton@cs.uml.edu>)
>
dbretton@hotmail.com, now :)

>has a killer
>web page where he explains how to put the GC kit in, with photos. I have it
>printed out and in my notebook, but I don't have the web site address.
>Contact Dennis and ask him WTF his page is.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/6637/

- -soon to be www.dodgestealth.com- :^)  stay tuned for that one ;)



>We used it as the bible when
>we did my GC installation, and it would have been a bitch otherwise. The GC
>instructions are...well, incomplete, to be kind.

Thanks for the compliments.  However, I would like to note the following:

1)  The install was on a SOHC Stealth.  TT's will differ somewhat (not
entirely, though)

2)  Most of the pics were for the install on the rear, as it began to POUR
when I was finishing up the front. :(

Regards,
   Dennis
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 15:47:30 -0600
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


That is what the discussion over NVRAM was about.  In order for the ECU to
keep accurate record it would need to have a small amount of NVRAM
(Non-Volatile RAM), which doesn't get erased to do loss of power.

John Basol

-----Original Message-----
From: cody [SMTP:overclck@flash.net]
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 2:00 PM
To: Mohler, Jeff
Cc: Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tamper indications? Need advice!

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Anything that "could" be stored would be erased as soon as
electicity was
removed from it.  Thus your average battery change, air filter swap,
etc.
would erase the contents...

Cody



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End of team3s V1 #50
********************