team3s
Friday, February 4
2000 Volume 01
: Number
048
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 2 Feb 2000 21:06:40 -0500
From: "WALTER D. BEST" <
WDBO39@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Part # for Supra fuel pump?
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message
end for more info.***
Matt,
I might be able to help you out on
this one.
I have part number on the Denso MK-IV Supra TT pump as
being: 23221-46110
If you are looking for a good source try
http://www.Toyotapart.com, the last
time
I heard they were selling them for $195.77. Their e-mail address is
Metrotoyota@worldnet.att.net or
1-800-581-3033
Hope this helps,
Dave Best
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: Matt Jannusch <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: Team3S <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, February 02, 2000 7:28 PM
Subject: Team3S: Part # for Supra fuel
pump?
> ***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more
info.***
>
>
> Anyone have the part number handy? I
think that's the way I'm going to go
for the pump on my
car...
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
>
>
> *** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S
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>
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>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 20:38:41
-0800
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\" Russell" <
benson@2015.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
Unorthodox Pulley Is Bad For Engine
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See
message end for more info.***
>Benson "Latuh fuh U"
states in a long message that MY message was too long
and
>detailed and
so invalidates my point...
>Whatever :)
ummmm, NO, I did not
state it like that. I never said the fact that
supporting your argument
with detailed evidence was bad, or that it
invalidates your point. I
said, and I quote:
"Ok, I can only read soo much of a reply like
this before I have to respond.
I understand you have a difference of opinion,
but can we please not OVER
DRAMATISE an issue?? To me it invalidates
your opinion even more and is
really irritating to read. I understood
your point in about the first 2
paragraphs, didn't need the extra 6 or so of
reiteration all blown out of
wack."
The point of this being that
your post was really melo-dramatic in nature.
You present the unorthodox
pulley as if it was literally the Anti-Christ of
car parts by the way you
positioned your statements. All I'm saying is that
most people tend to
not to want to listen to your point if your stating it
like a whacked out
preacher who's claiming the end of the world. I enjoyed
your last post
as it was direct, and written well without all the overly
dramatic
examples. Being detailed with your evidence I encourage, and
enjoy
reading about (further educating oneself isn't a bad thing, that's why
we're
all on this list :).
I also do not consider wanting proof, or
speaking your mind to be a personal
attack, but the way your post comes off,
deciding to call it the
'unitelligent pulley' in the context that you used
(along with other posts I
have read from this group regarding this product),
it sounds like you are
also calling the people who choose to purchase and use
them unitelligent.
Speaking one's mind is definately a good thing, If I
didn't think it was, I
wouldn't be here having this debate with you
:).
>The harmonic forces ARE there, they ARE destructive over
time. If you
choose
>not to care about them THAT IS FINE, but
don't tell people there is nothing
>wrong with ignoring them...or that
they don't exist
Again, I never said that they don't exist, in fact, I
agreed with you that
they do, but my point is more towards the application of
the unorthodox
pulley. I didn't realise they were advertising it as a
racing part, my bad.
If I were to build up a car to be a really high
horsepower monster, then I
personally wouldn't be using this pulley, nor
would I recommend it for that
kind of application. But for an NA owner
like myself, where I will never be
racing the car, and the occasional
stop-light challenge is the most
aggressive use of my engine, I don't think
there will be any problems. Its
just like race-preping a car, you don't
go launch a 600+ hp beast with a
low-end clutch do you? No, you go buy
a high-performance clutch built to
handle that kind of punishment. To
me, it's all in the application and I do
agree with you to an
extent.
I also don't consider what I've heard and found out from people
who have
been using these pulley's as 'anecdotal experience'. As an
example, the
fact that both Matt and Dan run their cars really hard, have
used these
products for an extended period of time, with no damage, is some
good
evidence, period. Practical real-life application, with real-life
testing,
along with real-life statistical data is something that you just
can't
ignore or brush off. The numbers make just as much of a statement
as does
the evidence that you refer to from industry sources. If it's
not enough to
satisfy you, that's fine as well. The point being that
everybody has to
make up their own mind, and if you're not convinced, then
more power to you.
For me, I'll just agree to disagree on the subject
:).
Latuh fuh U,
Benson
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 21:45:24
-0600
From: xwing <
xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
UO pulley
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more
info.***
> Hello Jack,
> Read this
thread for a while. It was kind of amusing. :)
> You make the
analogy of a car to a person, with a "...GOOD QUALITY..."
>
person having a full set of lungs, etc. This is supposed to equate to
> a
car without an UO pulley.
> I agree with you, completely. An UO
pulley is not good for our cars.
> However, I must point out that anabolic
steriods are BERY BAD for a person,
> and certainly is not a component to
creating a "...GOOD QUALITY..." person.
> You would have to
agree with me on this.
> You would also have to agree with me that your
car is the (using your
> analogy) automotive equivalent of a person on
HORSE steriods. :)
> Why is the UO pulley so much worse than 17G
turbos running 24psi of boost?
That's a good question!
Because it puts
UNDESIRABLE stress on the mechanicals of the engine.
Horsepower/boost in
racing is DESIRABLE stress.
You want to build the engine well, and strong, so
it CAN stand up to 17G turbos
(or whatever you have ;)
and 24psi
boost WELL, because the parts are all the best, the design is
OPTIMIZED, all
extraneous/unnecessary/bad stresses are taken care of,
so the GOOD stress,
that which pumps more air and pressure and hp,
is best handled. The
bearings will have a tough enough time standing up
to the high
hp/rpm/pressures, WITHOUT having undampened and
purely destructive harmonic
vibrations trying to tear them up as well.
Believe me, the bearings in
our motors are marginal as it is...there is
NOT much leeway/overdesign there
once you are over 500hp; bearing
failure is one of the first failures that
shows up on these motors.
Ed Arnold Racing testified to that, they won Pike's
Peak hillclimb
with a 3000/Stealth TT -- they had problems with the
bearings...
take off the dampener, and that'd only get worse.
Jack
Tertadian
Sounds like after the long-winded and 2am-slightly-bombastic letter
I
posted, and the replies, maybe people are getting a better
understanding
of the sides of this issue...That is Quality Internetting
IMO!
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:13:22
-0500
From: Jeremy Barron <
doc2978@doctorheresy.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Fueal Injector questions...
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See
message end for more info.***
After an extended leave from the list,
I return to find that pretty much the same group of good people still attacking
the heady performance issues which face us ;). I have pretty much resolved to
make a concerted effort to upgrade from the level I've been at for the past two
years this Spring (HKS BOV, Apex AVC-R, K+N FIPK, Greddy exhaust- best of
12.93@108.85 [mainly thanks to a wet rag on the
intake, right Dennis? ;)). Anywho, I plan to finish the exhaust from hollowing
out the pre-cats back and also upgrade the fuel system. Funds prohibit upgrading
the turbos in the near future. In the interests of trying to wring the most
performance out of the stock turbos, I thus pose this question to the list:
would I be better off picking up a six-pack of DSM 450/440cc injectors to use in
conjunction with an Apex AFC, or should I try to find a bargain on 550cc
injectors? Will the AFC be able to control the 550cc injectors adequately, or
will the 550s necessitate an ARC or similar se!
t-up? I don't want to
"over-fuel" a system that already runs rich.
Also, are the DSM
stock injectors direct-fits? O-rings and all? On a side note, while scouring the
archives it appears that the Supra fuel pump is a economical drop-in upgrade.
Can anyone verify where it is available from for ~$200 and that it is still
considered a straight "drop-in" mod? Thanks for everything and take
care...
Jeremy Barron
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:12:23
+0100
From: "Robert Jerome Mengler" <
RMENGLER@statoil.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Vent Air-Recirc Blower Knob Flips open,94 3000gtSL
***This is the
NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***
I get the Digest
and nobody responded to my 3 questions but I'd appreciate
an
answer on
this one. Just tell me "No" please if it doesn't happen on
your
cars:
Has anyone had the problem where the Air-Recirculation
control
knob (above the radio) moves by itself from the
Recirculation
position to about half way between the fresh air position
and
the recirc position, mostly when a window is open
or vehicle speed is
increased (even with the windows shut and
the blower off)? No AC
is on. Is this a natural "safety"
design in the system to force me
to smell the sewage system
plant I pass by twice a day on my commute or might
something
be restricting the Air-Recir. lever behind the dash? If
I slow
down or close the windows (if they are open) I can manually
close
the vent and the knob will stay closed, otherwise apparent
"wind
force" (from outside air I assume) pushes it about half
way open
again.
Thanks in advance. Bob (1994 3000gt
SL)
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:37:36
+0100
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fuel Injector questions...
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See
message end for more info.***
The new AFC will work with 550cc but
you'll not eliminate the intake problem of our restrictive MAS ! The ARC or VPC
do this as well as controlling fuel.
Well the question is what do you
gonna do with the more fuel ? With stock turbos and intercoolers, the answer is
simple : cool down the chambers and waste energy. When adding more fuel and
increasing boost, you MUST run the car super-rich. This because the 9b are
running way off their efficiency map and produce very, very hot discharge
temperatures. This is then causing high intake temperatues that increase the
danger for detonation and deadly knock ! Therefore you MUST overfuel the system
what is not a good solution but it works (I don't like this style of controlling
detonation !)
If money is an issue, get some used DSM injectors and an
old AFC. If money becomes more fluid, get an ARC or VPC and 550cc injectors,
depending on your application.
The DSM injectors are a direct fit. Of
course you are byuing new O-Rings !
Yes, the Supra pump is a drop in and
it costs around $200. It will feed somewhat more but is probably at its end with
550cc injectors closely maxxed out. It is simply a standard Denso
pump.
Take care too :-)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Jeremy Barron <
doc2978@doctorheresy.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, February 03, 2000 2:13 PM
Subject: Team3S: Fueal Injector
questions...
>upgrading the turbos in the near future. In the
interests of trying to wring the most performance out of the stock turbos, I
thus pose this question to the list: would I be better off picking up a six-pack
of DSM 450/440cc injectors to use in conjunction with an Apex AFC, or should I
try to find a bargain on 550cc injectors? Will the AFC be able to control the
550cc injectors adequately, or will the 550s necessitate an ARC or similar
se!
> t-up? I don't want to "over-fuel" a system that
already runs rich.
>
> Also, are the DSM stock injectors
direct-fits? O-rings and all? On a side note, while scouring the archives it
appears that the Supra fuel pump is a economical drop-in upgrade. Can anyone
verify where it is available from for ~$200 and that it is still considered a
straight "drop-in" mod? Thanks for everything and take
care...
*** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S list
address:
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and all other important info is at:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:03:05
CST
From: "Curt Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Vent Air-Recirc Blower Knob Flips open,94 3000gtSL
***This is
the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***
No one has
replied, because this sounds like a unique problem. If I was to
guess,
it sounds like the recirculate lever isn't holding enough. Maybe a
broken spring somewhere?? It is not a common problem on the 3/S.
But I've
owned older Mitsubishi's that this did happen too. (86
Mirage) You might
have to track down the mechanism that controls
it.
later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org>From:
"Robert Jerome Mengler" <
RMENGLER@statoil.com>
>To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
Team3S: Vent Air-Recirc Blower Knob Flips open,94 3000gtSL
>Date: Thu, 3
Feb 2000 14:12:23 +0100
>
>***This is the NEW Team3S list. See
message end for more info.***
>
>
>I get the Digest and nobody
responded to my 3 questions but I'd appreciate
>an
>answer on this
one. Just tell me "No" please if it doesn't happen on
your
>cars:
>Has anyone had the problem where the Air-Recirculation
control
>knob (above the radio) moves by itself from the
Recirculation
>position to about half way between the fresh air position
and
>the recirc position, mostly when a window is open
>or vehicle
speed is increased (even with the windows shut and
>the blower
off)? No AC is on. Is this a natural
"safety"
>design in the system to force me to smell the sewage
system
>plant I pass by twice a day on my commute or might
something
>be restricting the Air-Recir. lever behind the
dash? If I slow
>down or close the windows (if they are open) I can
manually
>close the vent and the knob will stay closed, otherwise
apparent
>"wind force" (from outside air I assume) pushes it
about half
>way open again.
>Thanks in advance.
Bob (1994 3000gt
SL)
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 06:39:05
+0100
From: Matthews <
matthews@wiesbaden.vistec.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: 3000gt.
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for
more info.***
> Bryan G Langton wrote:
>
>
Hi,
> I saw your post on the
3000 site i also have a Japanese 3000GT (GTO)
> mine is a 1995
model
> all the Japanese cars have a speed limiter have you overcome this
?? if so
> HOW..( new CPU ??) Also they have a 180klm speedo have you
scorched a 240+ Klm
> speedo ?? if so how and where.
>
>
Regards
>
> Bryan
> 95 3000GTO TT VR4
Yes, the GTOs
sold in Japan had a speed limiter and a lower speedometer. Those
sold
elsewhere did not! Mine came stock with a 180 mph (280 kph) speedo and
no
fixed speed limiter.
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden,
Germany
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.vistec.net
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Abex metallic
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
*** Please make
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 07:33:50
-0800
From: "Darcy" <
w.c.e@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re:
3000gt.
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more
info.***
Byran;
Check the wrecking yards for a used Speedo if
you consider you just have to
have one. The Canadian cars are all in
K's (MPH in smaller figures) whereas
the American counterparts are all in MPH
(K's in smaller figures ?).
Best
Darc
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:16:29
CST
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <
stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Found Long Block for sale
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See
message end for more info.***
I found this and sounds like a great
deal for anyone looking for a new
engine.
http://www.thepartstrader.com/single_ad.cfm?adnum=39598Mark
Wendlandt
'91RT/TT
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:09:00
-0500
From: Jeremy Barron <
doc2978@doctorheresy.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fuel Injector questions...
***This is the NEW Team3S list.
See message end for more info.***
Thanks for the advice, Roger.
While I realize that the AFC does not replace the stock MAS, how restrictive is
the MAS with the stock 9B turbos, especially considering that their boost falls
off in the upper-rpm range? How much of a tangible benefit would I really see by
using an ARC with the 83mm MAS (and probably having the TB bored out as well)
while still having the stock turbos?
Secondly, is Jack T. the only turbo
guy who has experimented with nitrous? Now before everyone starts shaking their
heads at the prospect of that evil stuff grenading our engines, I am somewhat
confident (;))that when done correctly, nitrous does not present much more of a
threat than cranking up the boost, provided there are safety measures taken and
fuel supply is adequate. Plus, it has the additional benefit of actually cooling
down the combustion chamber due to it's own low temp. Seeing the heat problems
which we have on our cars, this appears to be a nice measure one could take when
racing in order to improve power without compromising the engine due to
potential knock/detonation issues. I wonder how close to the 11s I could get
with the full exhaust, upgraded fuel and a 50-horse hit of nitrous? Hmmm...any
feedback on which type of set-up (wet or dry) would be preferable? I think NOS
is dry while NX is wet. Thanks again and take care everyone...
>The
new AFC will work with 550cc but you'll not eliminate the intake >problem of
our restrictive MAS ! The ARC or VPC do this as well as >controlling
fuel.
>Well the question is what do you gonna do with the more fuel ?
With >stock turbos and intercoolers, the answer is simple : cool down the
>chambers and waste energy. When adding more fuel and increasing >boost,
you MUST run the car super-rich. This because the 9b are >running way off
their efficiency map and produce very, very hot >discharge temperatures. This
is then causing high intake temperatues >that increase the danger for
detonation and deadly knock ! Therefore >you MUST overfuel the system what is
not a good solution but it works (I >don't like this style of controlling
detonation !)
>If money is an issue, get some used DSM injectors and
an old AFC. If >money becomes more fluid, get an ARC or VPC and 550cc
injectors, >depending on your application.
>The DSM injectors are a
direct fit. Of course you are byuing new O->Rings !
>Yes, the Supra
pump is a drop in and it costs around $200. It will feed >somewhat more but
is probably at its end with 550cc injectors closely >maxxed out. It is simply
a standard Denso pump.
>Take care too
:-)
>Roger
>93'3000GT TT
*** Please make
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 00 15:45:53
EST
From: "Alan Monarchi
GANGUS@VNET.IBM.COM" <
gangus@vnet.ibm.com>
Subject:
Team3S: OEM struts
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for
more info.***
Folks,
Does anybody know what brand of struts
are original equipment
in our cars ? I've heard that they are KYB, but
I seem to get
different price quotes for KYB vs. OEM parts.
Also, does
anyone know what a REASONABLE rate is for changing the 2
front struts, 2
hours seems a little small, 3 hours seems about
right, I was quoted 5.5 hours
from Dodge which I think is ridiculous.
My local mitsu dealer (who has
since closed down) quoted me 2.2 hours
of labor. I assume
it's somewhere in between ?
Thanks,
Al
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:05:33
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Vent Air-Recirc Blower Knob Flips open,94 3000gtSL
***This is the
NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***
I've had this
problem several times - I almost always have my vents open, so
I hadn't
gotten bothered enough to figure out why it does that. If anyone
does
figure out why the lever flips back to the "open" side by itself,
I'd
love to know!
- --Erik
-
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (NA, DOHC,
5-speed) 65,000
mi
Firestone Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock wheels
Magnacor KV85 spark
plug wires, NGK plugs @ 0.040"
K&N FIPK (57-1500), resonator
intact
Mobil 1 10W30 Synthetic w/ OEM oil filter
***No more ticking lash
adjusters! Treated with GM EOS, BG
44K FI cleaner. Change
oil every 2000mi, filter 4000mi ***
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Jerome Mengler [
mailto:RMENGLER@statoil.com]
>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 5:12 AM
> To:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Vent Air-Recirc Blower Knob Flips open,94 3000gtSL
>
>
> ***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more
info.***
>
>
> I get the Digest and nobody responded to my 3
questions but
> I'd appreciate
> an
> answer on this
one. Just tell me "No" please if it doesn't
>
happen on your
> cars:
> Has anyone had the problem where the
Air-Recirculation control
> knob (above the radio) moves by itself from
the Recirculation
> position to about half way between the fresh air
position and
> the recirc position, mostly when a window is open
>
or vehicle speed is increased (even with the windows shut and
> the blower
off)? No AC is on. Is this a natural "safety"
>
design in the system to force me to smell the sewage system
> plant I pass
by twice a day on my commute or might something
> be restricting the
Air-Recir. lever behind the dash? If I slow
> down or close
the windows (if they are open) I can manually
> close the vent and the
knob will stay closed, otherwise apparent
> "wind force" (from
outside air I assume) pushes it about half
> way open again.
>
Thanks in advance. Bob (1994 3000gt SL)
>
>
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 00:47:23
-0800
From: Errin Humphrey <
errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Fuel cut problem.
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Jack,
xwing wrote:
> AFC can
work but it's very coarse "low throttle map, high throttle
map"
> rather than the VPC gradual mapping is not as good
IMO;
I didn't get a chance to bring this up last time I discussed
this
with you and you mentioned this.... Did you know that the
with
the new AFC, once you set low and hi throttle maps, the AFC
gradually
"blends" between these? So it's not as if you are only in
one
map or the other. So this isn't too different from the VPC, no?
I'm
still planning to use the new AFC.
Note to Craig: I plan to use
Denso 660 injectors when I go to
15Gs. According to Mike Mahaffey at
AAM, the Densos don't
require multiple cranks to start your car like the RCs
sometimes
do. Also, 660 doesn't cost a lot more than 550 on the
Densos,
so it's worth the extra margin of tuning/safety.
> it also
utilizes
> stock MassAir sensor which restricts airflow
pre-turbo.
Stock MAS supposedly flows 800 cfm according to some
tests
done by guys on the DSM list. This should be sufficient at
least
for the 13Gs which Craig is planning on. It might even be
close
to sufficient for 15Gs (at least at no higher than 15psi of
boost).
> Dunno, the higher the hp your engine, the more airflow
needed, the
> more you lose with relative restriction of MAS. On my
94 with stock turbos I
> picked up ~2.3 mph quartermile speed changing to
VPC/720 injectors, using a
> gutted out MAS to hold the K&N
filter.
Is it possible that this gain was due to the VPC/720s being
able
to keep your ECU in open loop and thus not putting the injectors
to
full static? That's what I always assumed would be the source
of gains
with this setup on stock turbos. I don't mean to argue,
but I'm just
trying to justify a reason to stay away from the VPC
and the ARC, both of
which I've heard so many negative things
about. :) I REALLY wish
that someone would make a larger
MAS replacement for our cars which doesn't
require additional
tuning hardware. Would it be so tough?
>
Haltech computer system--totally replaces stock computer. NO information
on
> if/how well it works; Mike Mahaffey at Altered
Atmospheres apparently has it
> on a car, but some who spoke to him
said it has been difficult to tune and I
> don't
> know
if there is an ACTUAL KIT to FULLY and EASILY install it on
our
> cars without somehow fabricating bracketry in your
driveway, etc.
Yes, from what I gathered from Mike, the system is near
impossible
to tune without a dyno. To quote Mike, "How can you
tune timing
curves without a dyno?" Words to live by.
:) Also, I don't think he
has a Haltech kit for our cars available
yet.
- --Errin
Seattle
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------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#48
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