team3s
Sunday, January 30
2000 Volume 01
: Number
042
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 04:23:04 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: New AAM Y-Pipe
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message
end for more info.***
Noble...
Yes, the factory y-pipe design
is weak. The rubber o-ring often collapses or
breaks, allowing air to escape.
Under boost conditions over stock, the
entire y-pipe can blow off. The
solution that I've seen everyone use is to
take a four inch (give or take)
section of silicon hose of the appropriate
inside diameter and clamp it over
the y-pipe and the throttle body intake.
This could be accomplished with the
factory plastic pipe, but many of us
have chosen to use an aftermarket pipe.
From my perspective, the only thing
we've gained by doing so, is purely
cosmetic. It's "nice" to "dress up" the
engine
compartment with a little more polished aluminum or stainless. So far
though,
I haven't seen any flow numbers that would indicate that any of
the
aftermarket y-pipes do anything more than stay on better than the
stock
version. Looks, are looks, and there will always be different opinions
on
what "looks" good. The old saw remains the same "Beauty is
in the eye of the
beholder". If someone can show us measurable
improvement based on a new
design, I'd love to hear about it. Aside from
that, leave it that Mike has
offered another aftermarket y-pipe. I certainly
appreciate his (or GT Pro's,
or anyone else's) efforts to provide a solution
to an existing technical
problem.
Looking forward...Chris
-
-----Original Message-----
From: nketo [
mailto:nketo@sympatico.ca]
Sent:
Thursday, January 27, 2000 3:39 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: New AAM Y-Pipe
Hey guys,
While we're on this subject,
the reason why the y-pipe was primarily
designed was to hold onto the intake
plenium, correct?
I took my factory y-pipe off, and see that the plenium
has no "flange" nor
"grooves" for a firm holding that
will secure the y-pipe from blowing off.
(Many of you know this already
:) )
I'm wondering how the different manufacturers have worked around
this
problem. Any opinions/thoughts on this matter?
Thanks in
advance,
Noble
*** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S
list address:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubscribe/unsubscribe
and all other important info is at:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:37:36
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Catharsis
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for
more info.***
OK, flame me for being off topic and non-techie. But I
just stuffed my
wife's Olds Aurora in the snow. I need to talk about it
to you folks, who
have become my cyberfriends in the past year. I figure that
you guys will
understand, since you are more skilled drivers than most, and
probably
drive way too fast for your own good every now and then. Maybe
you've had a
similar incident, and can offer solace.
Here's the deal:
It's been snowing all night, about 5-6 inches here in
Iowa, and we drove
about 65 miles in it to dinner. I did my best imitation
of a Canadian Winter
Rally driver, cruising at 75-80 mph, passing
everybody, and got there without
incident. Nearly made it back, too,
driving the same way. I mean, I was
FLYING, dude, on unplowed and barely
plowed two-lane highways. I love to
drive like that in the snow, and have
been doing it for the past 25 years
with no problems. I once jumped from
25th to 3rd on the road in a winter Pro
rally, and my fastest ET from Cedar
Rapids to St. Louis was set in the snow.
Tonight, the drive both ways was
absolutely perfect, without incident. Those
famous Scandanavian winter
rally drivers didn't have anything on the Old Poop
tonight -- until the
very end.
When I reached the city limits of
Cedar Rapids, I backed it down to 45 mph
and relaxed, planning to just cruise
sedately home the last two miles. On a
gentle, wide, unplowed turn, where the
edges of the road were impossible to
see under the snow, I hit a bump or a
hump with the right front wheel, and
it threw the car to the left into black
ice, where it instantly slid off
the road on the left side and buried itself
in a ditch. I mean, it happened
LIKE THAT! All my alleged winter rally
driving skills were for naught on
this one -- steer into the slide! Power on,
try to pull it out! Bang on the
ABS when it's obvious we are going in! Aim
between the fire plug and the
telephone pole!. Alas, on black ice, nothing
works except studs.
They say that many racing accidents happen when a
driver slows down -- like
when he's way ahead or is trying to nurse the car
or is following somebody
- -- and he loses concentration. That seems to be
exactly what happened to me.
So now I gotta find a tow truck sometime
Sunday, get it hauled out, and
have it taken to a shop to figure out what
damage I did underneath. There
doesn't appear to be any bodywork damage, but
I ran over something that
musta gashed the oil pan because it has no oil
pressure, and it sounds like
a muffler or two got ripped off.
Sorry
to bore you guys, but if I don't write this down and vent it, I'll
never get
to sleep. My wife and daughter were in the car, but nobody was
hurt and the
air bags did not go off. I am embarrassed as hell, because I
used to have a
reputation as the best winter driver anyone had ever seen.
No more.
I
can't even use the old rally saying, "if you don't go off once in
a
while, you aren't going fast enough," because I wasn't trying to go
fast at
that point.
Thanks for listening. I feel a little better.
Rich/old poop/embarrassed and chagrined.
*** Please make sure
you are using the NEW Team3S list address:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubscribe/unsubscribe
and all other important info is at:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:53:58
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Off-Topic: Catharsis - An Admin Editorial...
***This is the NEW Team3S
list. See message end for more info.***
Just to clarify...
Apologies are unnecessary for this kind of post.
The whole point of the
Team3S list is to share USEFUL information,
and this certainly falls under
that category. Anytime one of us can
give others on the list 'a helping
hand', it should be encouraged...
The fact that someone like Rich, who has
taken the time to really
learn HOW to drive, (and indeed, prides himself in
his outstanding
skills), jolts our awareness - that anyone can make a mistake
or
encounter an unforseen danger. We all need to be reminded from
time
to time that such things may happen, and DO happen. At least
this
accident has a happy ending..., in that no one was hurt.
Lets
consider this a "wake up call" to always be alert.
The
kind of 'off-topic' we want to avoid is the "Woo-Hoo, I just
beat a
'vette!" variety. There are two other 3S lists where such
posts
are welcome, so there is no need to do it here. We don't want
a spate
of "me too" posts to Rich's 'info-post', since we've all had
close
encounters... His post should be the model for what is the
'right' kind
of off-topic material: if your unique experience can
benefit the rest of us,
consider that a technical post. Over 580
subscribers from 15 countries
have joined Team3S. So... Ask
yourself, "Is my information
helpful to most of the other owners?"
If so, feel free to bring it
here...
Best to all,
Forrest
- -----Original
Message-----From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>OK,
flame me for being off topic and non-techie. But I just
stuffed
my
>wife's Olds Aurora in the snow. I need to talk about
it to you
folks, who
>have become my cyberfriends in the past year. I
figure that you
guys will
>understand, since you are more skilled
drivers than most, and
probably
>drive way too fast for your own good
every now and then. Maybe
you've had a
>similar incident, and can offer
solace.
>
>Here's the deal: It's been snowing all night, about 5-6
inches here
in
>Iowa, and we drove about 65 miles in it to dinner. I
did my best
imitation
>of a Canadian Winter Rally driver, cruising at
75-80 mph, passing
>everybody, and got there without incident. Nearly made
it back,
too,
>driving the same way. I mean, I was FLYING, dude, on
unplowed and
barely
>plowed two-lane highways. I love to drive like
that in the snow,
and have
>been doing it for the past 25 years with no
problems. I once jumped
from
>25th to 3rd on the road in a winter Pro
rally, and my fastest ET
from Cedar
>Rapids to St. Louis was set in the
snow. Tonight, the drive both
ways was
>absolutely perfect, without
incident. Those famous Scandanavian
winter
>rally drivers didn't have
anything on the Old Poop tonight -- until
the
>very
end.
>
>When I reached the city limits of Cedar Rapids, I backed it
down to
45 mph
>and relaxed, planning to just cruise sedately home the
last two
miles. On a
>gentle, wide, unplowed turn, where the edges of
the road were
impossible to
>see under the snow, I hit a bump or a hump
with the right front
wheel, and
>it threw the car to the left into
black ice, where it instantly
slid off
>the road on the left side and
buried itself in a ditch. I mean, it
happened
>LIKE THAT! All my
alleged winter rally driving skills were for
naught on
>this one --
steer into the slide! Power on, try to pull it out!
Bang on the
>ABS
when it's obvious we are going in! Aim between the fire plug
and
the
>telephone pole!. Alas, on black ice, nothing works except
studs.
>
>They say that many racing accidents happen when a driver
slows
down -- like
>when he's way ahead or is trying to nurse the car
or is following
somebody
>-- and he loses concentration. That seems to
be exactly what
happened to me.
>
>So now I gotta find a tow
truck sometime Sunday, get it hauled out,
and
>have it taken to a shop
to figure out what damage I did underneath.
There
>doesn't appear to be
any bodywork damage, but I ran over something
that
>musta gashed the
oil pan because it has no oil pressure, and it
sounds like
>a muffler
or two got ripped off.
>
>Sorry to bore you guys, but if I don't
write this down and vent it,
I'll
>never get to sleep. My wife and
daughter were in the car, but
nobody was
>hurt and the air bags did not
go off. I am embarrassed as hell,
because I
>used to have a reputation
as the best winter driver anyone had ever
seen.
>No
more.
>
>I can't even use the old rally saying, "if you don't
go off once in
a
>while, you aren't going fast enough," because I
wasn't trying to go
fast at
>that point.
>
>Thanks for
listening. I feel a little better.
>
>Rich/old poop/embarrassed and
chagrined.
>
>
>*** Please make sure you are using the NEW
Team3S list address:
>
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>Subscribe/unsubscribe
and all other important info is at:
>
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
*** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S
list address:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubscribe/unsubscribe
and all other important info is at:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 01:47:43
-0800
From: "nketo" <
nketo@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: New AAM Y-Pipe
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end
for more info.***
Hey Chris,
Are u saying that all one needs
is a silicone hose adapter? Even with it
clamped on,
wouldn't it
still "slip" off over time? The reason why I'm concerned
about
this is once I
drop in some 15G's, and run 16-18psi, I don't want
anymore problems. :)
Would you take the silicone
attachment one step further and somehow try to
have a
groove or bump along
the intake plenium to make sure the clamp can't come
off?
Or is this
redundant?
Thanks again,
Noble
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: Chris Winkley <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To:
'nketo' <
nketo@sympatico.ca>;
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Sunday, January 30, 2000 4:23 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: New AAM
Y-Pipe
> Noble...
>
> Yes, the factory y-pipe design
is weak. The rubber o-ring often collapses
or
> breaks, allowing air to
escape. Under boost conditions over stock, the
> entire y-pipe can blow
off. The solution that I've seen everyone use is to
> take a four inch
(give or take) section of silicon hose of the appropriate
> inside
diameter and clamp it over the y-pipe and the throttle body intake.
> This
could be accomplished with the factory plastic pipe, but many of us
> have
chosen to use an aftermarket pipe. From my perspective, the
only
thing
> we've gained by doing so, is purely cosmetic. It's
"nice" to "dress up"
the
> engine compartment with
a little more polished aluminum or stainless. So
far
> though, I
haven't seen any flow numbers that would indicate that any of
the
>
aftermarket y-pipes do anything more than stay on better than the stock
>
version. Looks, are looks, and there will always be different opinions
on
> what "looks" good. The old saw remains the same
"Beauty is in the eye of
the
> beholder". If someone can show
us measurable improvement based on a new
> design, I'd love to hear about
it. Aside from that, leave it that Mike has
> offered another aftermarket
y-pipe. I certainly appreciate his (or GT
Pro's,
> or anyone else's)
efforts to provide a solution to an existing technical
>
problem.
>
> Looking forward...Chris
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: nketo [
mailto:nketo@sympatico.ca]
> Sent:
Thursday, January 27, 2000 3:39 PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: New AAM Y-Pipe
>
> Hey guys,
>
>
While we're on this subject, the reason why the y-pipe was primarily
>
designed was to hold onto the intake plenium, correct?
>
> I took my
factory y-pipe off, and see that the plenium has no "flange"
nor
> "grooves" for a firm holding that will secure the y-pipe
from blowing off.
> (Many of you know this already :)
)
>
> I'm wondering how the different manufacturers have worked
around this
> problem. Any opinions/thoughts on this
matter?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
Noble
>
*** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S
list address:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubscribe/unsubscribe
and all other important info is at:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:22:13
-0500
From: "Becky and Dave" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Y-piped up
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for
more info.***
I've been amazed recently at the wacky dialog around
these meaningless
y-pipes. Aside from keeping them attached, these
thing are strictly
asthetic. Some seem to quick to take offence to
simple comments. It must
be the cabin feaver thing. Anyway, has
anyone considered the effects of
thermal conductivity when using
aluminum? Is the engine bay heat sinking
into the intake or the other
way around? Maybe someone with Autocad could
do an FEA thermal
migration analysis. If your inclined to save your money
for things that
help performance, I resolved the y-pipe pop-off problem by
fabbing a flat
c-shaped aluminum yoke that attached to the TB mounting
bolts. This has
worked for me up to a steady 18psi without incident.
I hope I havn't offended
anyone.
Regards,
Dave
T/92TT
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders
of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html***
Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S list address:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubscribe/unsubscribe
and all other important info is at:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:58:27
-0800
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@tgn.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Y-piped up
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more
info.***
IN regards to thermal soaking.
Outisde of stock-class
AutoX, I have a habit of always thermal wrapping my
intake piping on my turbo
cars..including (where its not too hot) alumized
bubble-wrap cut into long
2" wide strips then wound around the piping.
Using my pyrometer, Ive
found I can drop about 20-40deg off my TB temps in
my Supras that
way.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Becky and Dave <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
To:
3000/Stealth Technical List <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Sunday, January 30, 2000 3:22 PM
Subject: Team3S: Y-piped up
>
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more
info.***
>
>
> I've been amazed recently at the wacky dialog
around these meaningless
> y-pipes. Aside from keeping them
attached, these thing are strictly
> asthetic. Some seem to quick to
take offence to simple comments. It must
> be the cabin feaver
thing. Anyway, has anyone considered the effects of
> thermal
conductivity when using aluminum? Is the engine bay heat sinking
>
into the intake or the other way around? Maybe someone with Autocad
could
> do an FEA thermal migration analysis. If your inclined to
save your money
> for things that help performance, I resolved the y-pipe
pop-off problem by
> fabbing a flat c-shaped aluminum yoke that attached
to the TB mounting
> bolts. This has worked for me up to a steady
18psi without incident.
> I hope I havn't offended anyone.
>
>
Regards,
> Dave T/92TT
>
>
__________________________________________
> NetZero - Defenders of the
Free World
> Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html>
>
>
*** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S list address:
>
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subscribe/unsubscribe and all other important info is at:
>
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
*** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S
list address:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubscribe/unsubscribe
and all other important info is at:
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:08:12
-0800
From: Errin Humphrey <
errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: New AAM Y-Pipe
***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message
end for more info.***
nketo wrote:
> Would you take the
silicone attachment one step further and somehow try to
> have a
>
groove or bump along the intake plenium to make sure the clamp can't
come
> off? Or is this redundant?
Quite a few people have suggested
using T-bolt clamps, the
same kinds which they use on airplane engines.
Supposedly,
they distribute the clamping force much more evenly, and
thus
act to better prevent y-pipe blowoff. However, you have to
be
careful when tightening because it is possible to crack your
throttle body
with them.
- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle, WA
*** Please
make sure you are using the NEW Team3S list address:
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and all other important info is at:
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------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#42
********************