team3s            Tuesday, January 18 2000            Volume 01 : Number 029




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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:32:52 -0600
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: problem with brakes

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> Maybe somebody has experienced the same problem.
> The steering wheel starts to shake badly at speed between
> 40/70 mph when I'm pushing brakes. When I bought this car
> (03.99), the problem already existed.  Old brake rotors
> were OK, but as I didn't know what to do, I bought new
> (Stillen drilled). I changed brake pads (Metal matrix), brake
> lines and brake fluid also. Nothing was changed! I have two
> wheel sets, everything is perfectly balanced, so the matter
> isn't all mentioned.  What can be done? I am totally upset,
> what for do I need 0-60 in 4 seconds if I don't have normal
> brakes?  Mitsu dealership can't can't find a matter, the
> diagnostics shows that everything is OK.
> Please help!

Hmm...  Have you checked the alignment on all four wheels?  You could possibly have too much toe-out which may cause the symptoms you describe.  How about checking all the suspension mounts to make sure everything is tight?  Are the tires okay (not cupped or anything like that?)?  Other than that, the culprit should* be one of the things you already checked.  I would recheck the rotors if none of these things pans out.  Also make sure that the wheels are properly torqued to the correct specs.  Overtightened lugs can cause warping of the rotors as well.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4


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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:46:02 GMT
From: "Tim DeKeyser" <tdekeyser@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: problem with brakes

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Mine does that at low speeds when the tire starts to slip. I think it is
with the ABS. Brake peddle shakes pretty bad.


- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Oleg-Telia" <Oleg@telia.lv>
To: <stealth@starnet.net>
CC: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: problem with brakes
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:29:37 +0200

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Maybe somebody has experienced the same problem.
The steering wheel starts to shake badly at speed between 40/70 mph when I'm
pushing brakes. When I bought this car (03.99), the problem already existed.
Old brake rotors were OK, but as I didn't know what to do, I bought new
(Stillen drilled). I changed brake pads (Metal matrix), brake lines and
brake fluid also. Nothing was changed! I have two wheel sets, everything is
perfectly balanced, so the matter isn't all mentioned.
What can be done? I am totally upset, what for do I need 0-60 in 4 seconds
if I don't have normal brakes?
Mitsu dealership can't can't find a matter, the diagnostics shows that
everything is OK.
Please help!

Olegs,
94'VR4
www.3000gt.lv
3si #0441





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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:58:28 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: problem with brakes

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- -----Original Message-----From: Oleg-Telia <Oleg@telia.lv>
>Maybe somebody has experienced the same problem.
>The steering wheel starts to shake badly at speed between 40/70 mph
when I'm
>pushing brakes. When I bought this car (03.99), the problem already
existed.
>Old brake rotors were OK, but as I didn't know what to do, I bought
new
>(Stillen drilled). I changed brake pads (Metal matrix), brake lines
and
>brake fluid also. Nothing was changed! I have two wheel sets,
everything is
>perfectly balanced, so the matter isn't all mentioned.
>What can be done? I am totally upset, what for do I need 0-60 in 4
seconds
>if I don't have normal brakes?
>Mitsu dealership can't can't find a matter, the diagnostics shows
that
>everything is OK.


Hey, Oleg,

I went through a couple of weeks of the same problem-- I had put on
new wheels and performance tires, perfectly balanced.  Put them on
and did a full alignment exactly to spec, then went for a drive.
And the same thing happened to me...  Steering wheel shake at 60 to
80 mph.  I went right back and everything checked out OK on the
diagnostics.  I had to bring the car back 3 or 4 more times before
we (actually- I) figured it out.
While they were putting the tires back on (after the 3rd
rebalancing), I was reading the manual and noticed that it
recommended torqueing all lugnuts the same...  And these guys were
doing it with a regular wrench!  I had them torque all to 90# (I
think spec calls for 85# to 95#) and I never had the problem again.

Hopefully the solution to your problem is equally simple.

Best,

Forrest







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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:58:13 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re: problem with brakes

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>
>Maybe somebody has experienced the same problem.
>The steering wheel starts to shake badly at speed between 40/70 mph when I'm
>pushing brakes.

You seem to have eliminated most of the obvious problems, so we have to
start looking at long shots.

Here's Long Shot #1:
It may be the Metal Matrix pads, perhaps because they were never bedded in
properly.

Try getting the MMs good and hot with a series of 5-6 high speed stops in a
row (do it at night, and stop stopping when you see them glowing). In the
daytime, stop stopping when you can smell them.

Then, just cruise around for awhile until they cool off, and park the car
overnight. Next day, the problem may be gone.

I had the exact problem you are describing with a set of Porterfield R4
race pads -- shuddering during stopping -- but as soon as we got a few hot
laps on 'em cooked 'em real good, the problem went away.

Here's Long Shot No. 2:
You may have something loose. First, check all your wheel lugs to be sure
they are tight.  Jack the car up a little and then grab the tire and shake
and bang on it to see if  to see if the wheel bearing or anything else is
loose. Stick a pry bar under the tire and pry up to see if anything clicks
or moves. 

If they are tight, take both front wheels off and check the caliper mounts.
There are only two per caliper, but they are big honkers. While you at it,
make sure you have all the necessary parts installed. From the pistons on
one side to the pistons on other, it should go: metal insulator (two
sometimes), pad, rotor, pad, metal insulator. Check to see that the two
locating pins go all the way through all four components from one side to
the other (it's easy to miss the locating holes and have one of the metal
insulators slip down). Feel the rotor on both sides to see if anything is
gouging it -- with so few miles, your rotors should be babybutt smooth, not
gouged or scored. If they are, something is wrong.

If everything is OK in the calipers, start grabbing and shaking things --
struts, locating arms, etc. Make sure everything is tight. Uh, be sure the
car is on secure jackstands.

Last possibility:

Swap wheels front to rear, to eliminate the possibility of a bad balance
job or out-of-round tires, or a flat spot.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me!.




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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:08:58 -0600
From: Rah <rah@isd.net>
Subject: Team3S: Sunroof Question

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Hello all,
    I have a 93 R/T TT with the sunroof, and I'm sure you're all
framiliar with the spring/hinge thingy that kind of aids you in putting
it on and sticks up when it's off.
    Well, I can't help but think it looks a little akward how it sticks
up when driving, assuming I'm not forgetting to do something I should.
So, knowing this is an odd question to ask in January, have people made
up simple ways to make it stay down or rigged up something special?

Just Curious,
- --Rich



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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:03:12 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: Admin: Cross-Posting is now allowed by the software.

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- -----Original Message-----From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To: stealth@starnet.net <stealth@starnet.net>
Cc: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>>Maybe somebody has experienced the same problem.
>>The steering wheel starts to shake badly at speed between 40/70
mph...------------snip------------


For those of you who haven't noticed yet, we forgot to announce that
cross-posting is now OK!  (That's posting to Team3S and another list
in the same email, for you newbies).  One of the benefits of the new
Team3S list is that we can filter certain problems like this...

Again, special thanks to our ComputerGod, Admin Jeff Mohler for
showing us how it's done...

Film at 11...,

Best to all,

Forrest,
for the Admins








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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:04:57 -0700
From: Dave Monarchi <monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: Team3S: problem with brakes (and ABS problem?)

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


+> Maybe somebody has experienced the same problem.
+> The steering wheel starts to shake badly at speed between 40/70 mph when I'm
+> pushing brakes. When I bought this car (03.99), the problem already existed.
+> Old brake rotors were OK, but as I didn't know what to do, I bought new
+> (Stillen drilled). I changed brake pads (Metal matrix), brake lines and
+> brake fluid also. Nothing was changed! I have two wheel sets, everything is
+> perfectly balanced, so the matter isn't all mentioned.
+> What can be done? I am totally upset, what for do I need 0-60 in 4 seconds
+> if I don't have normal brakes?
+> Mitsu dealership can't can't find a matter, the diagnostics shows that
+> everything is OK.
+> Please help!
+>
+> Olegs,
+> 94'VR4
+> www.3000gt.lv
+> 3si #0441

I was just about to post the same problem..  I'll check out all the
possibilities you all have posted, but mine might be slightly different
and wanted to see if it sounded familiar..

under "normal" driving with "planned" braking, ie. light pedal pressure,
I notice no pulsing, but at 60+ with a hard pedal, mine shakes too..  I
did a quick WOT to ~130 about a month ago and got on the brakes hard,
and the shaking got violent..  AND, then I noticed the pulsing at very
low speeds too..  all I could figure is the rotor(s) had a very minor
warp that was mostly unnoticable unless it got superheated..  especially
because after letting them cool down for a while, they were back to
"normal"..  the rotors don't show any signs of warping (hot spots) though..
oh yeah, all my brake components are stock and seemingly in good shape..

also, I don't know if this is related, but has anyone ever heard a
grinding noise when ABS engages almost like what the tranny sounds like
when you grind a gear?  not that I have _ever_ done such a thing.. ;) 
a couple monthes ago when there was snow/ice on the ground, I was rolling
up to a parking lot entrance gate at <5 mph, lightly pressed the brake
pedal and got the above sound, a vibrating pedal, and ZERO reduction in
speed.. thankfully the gate bar was plastic as I went merrily through
with it bouncing over the roof..  I did have Nitto 555s on when this
happened, so I'm sure that contributed to the lack of stopping ability,
but as far as I know, I was rolling not sliding, so the ABS basically
disabled my brakes!  yeesh..  does this sound normal or is something
failing in the ABS system?

Dave

95 Black 3000GT VR4
87 Mica Red GTI G60


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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:43:49 -0800
From: "Geoff Mohler" <gemohler@tgn.net>
Subject: Team3S: Server Quake (Off Topic)

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The Stealth-3000gt.st War Room just experienced a small quake..got me outta
bed too...ON A HOLIDAY no less.

http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/recenteqs/Quakes/nc51094399.html

Please make sure all posts from the lists contain proper grammar and
spelling.


Boost on..and avoid panic shopping.



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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:39:36 +0100
From: lehir@genesiscom.ch (Genesiscon Lehir)
Subject: RE: Team3S: problem with brakes (and ABS problem?)

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>>up to a parking lot entrance gate at <5 mph, lightly pressed the brake
>>pedal and got the above sound, a vibrating pedal, and ZERO reduction in
>>speed.. thankfully the gate bar was plastic as I went merrily through
>>with it bouncing over the roof..  I did have Nitto 555s on when this
>>happened, so I'm sure that contributed to the lack of stopping ability,
>>but as far as I know, I was rolling not sliding, so the ABS basically
>>disabled my brakes!  yeesh..  does this sound normal or is something
>>failing in the ABS system?

No, my 92 RT/TT ABS gives me the same (ahemmmmm) performance.....
Now, you probably start to understand why I DISABLE it on snow :-)

Best

Henri



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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:04:43 EST
From: DSMDealer1@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Transmission Parts availability

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All,

    Thanks to all that replied in my requests for information on rebuilding
my transmission.  I have one last part I need (the oil guide for the
intermediate shaft..sits under the shaft bearing in the bell housing).  I did
however find a supplier for the bearings/seals (in kit form) for these
transmissions.   The supplier is Southern Gear.  Their phone # is
770-435-1461.  Give 'em a try if you need parts.  I know that they can get
the bearings/seals/output shafts.  Other than that, I'm not sure.  I know
that they *did* say that they could *not* get syncros (sorry!!!).  Thanks
again for all of the help, and hopefully I can get this thing back on the
road!!!

Josh
Conicelli Mitsubishi
'92 Silver/Black 3KGT VR4
'91 Galant VR4
'90 Eclipse GSX


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End of team3s V1 #29
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