team3s           Thursday, January 13 2000           Volume 01 : Number 024




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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:53:05 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Cant change spark plugs

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Tim...

A shop is not required, but is certainly less frustrating.   :-)

There should be a couple threads about this in the archives. Rich LeRoy has
perfected (and published) his technique. He can probably pull the plenum and
change all six in less than an hour. I can do the front three in twenty
minutes. When looking at the back three, I thin of how nice it is to work on
my Suzuki Swift. More  :-)

Looking forward...Chris

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tim DeKeyser [mailto:tdekeyser@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 8:32 AM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Cant change spark plugs

All,

I was thinking of changing out my plugs and wires when I quickly realized
that would be a LOT of work taking off everything that was in the way first.

Any recommendations or short cuts? I have to bring this thing to a darn shop

just to replace these things?


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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:03:43 -0800
From: "Darcy" <w.c.e@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tune up questions

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Hi Tim;

As Chris has mentioned, the 60 plug procedure and more is availed courtesy
of Rich, at(www.stealth-3000gt.st/60k.htm). But what concerns me is
this...if you have not had the plugs changed in 60,000...then likely the
timing belt needs replacing as well.  Given 137,000, you are well past a due
date for the timing belt change and if it breaks, you will have a world of
hurt to contend with. Consider a new water pump, belt tensor, and inspect
and/or replace other belts  and seals at the same time.

Best

Darc
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tim DeKeyser <tdekeyser@hotmail.com>
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 8:36 AM
Subject: Team3S: Tune up questions


>***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***
>
>
>All,
>
>'91 Stealth has 136,000 miles on it, and has not had a tune up in 60,0000
>miles! What should I have them do while they are in there? Also, what all
is
>involved in a tune up besides plugs and 'checking' things, can they do any
>adjustments to timing and such? Is it worth the money, or should I attemp
it
>with little to no tools.
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>*** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S list address:
>team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:35:34 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tune up questions

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- -----Original Message-----From: Tim DeKeyser <tdekeyser@hotmail.com>
>'91 Stealth has 136,000 miles on it, and has not had a tune up in
60,0000
>miles! What should I have them do while they are in there? Also,
what all is
>involved in a tune up besides plugs and 'checking' things, can they
do any
>adjustments to timing and such? Is it worth the money, or should I
attemp it
>with little to no tools.


Hey, Tim,

You'll need a set of tools (including a special tool) to do the 60k
service yourself.  To find out what's involved, there is a complete,
illustrated "60k How-to" by Rich Leroy on our FAQ pages (work in
progress).  Find it at:
www.stealth-3000gt.st/60k.htm

Best,

Forrest









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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:09:04 -0800
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: Team3S: Members WWW Site: ADMIN

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Please, I hate to post this here like this, but everybody please follow the
instructions in my Email.

Its clearly stated to Email me at gemohler@pacbell.net for account requests.  I
cannot process these at work, and dont want to get in the middle of it all by
forwarding them to my house..I _will_ miss some that way.  I cannot stress
enough to please follow the instructions to make this easy on us all...theres
500 of you guys.

Original post follows:

- ---
Please submit a username (8 characters or less, first come first served), and
allow 24-48hrs (weekends and holidays not necessarily included) for a return
Email for what your password will be.

You will be expected to remember your passwords, and I will have to enter
them..and change them in the future manually should you loose it.

You will have 3MB quotas, which should be plenty for a Team3S relevent WWW site.

Comments, questions, and submissions for accounts to gemohler@pacbell.net only
please.
- ---

Thanks!  *grin*

Those of you who properly submitted yesterday already have your accounts.



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:38:51 GMT
From: "Tim DeKeyser" <tdekeyser@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: $350 TO CHANGE SPARK PLUGS??

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I have asked around all the shops, including the dealer, and they all say
that a tuneup for a '91 Dodge Stealth is nothing but replacing the spark
plugs and air filter. Nothing has to be done with the timing or anything
else. $350 minimum!!! Is this crazy or what??? What can I do if I dont have
the knowledge/tools to do it myself??
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:54:58 -0600
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: $350 TO CHANGE SPARK PLUGS??

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> I have asked around all the shops, including the dealer, and
> they all say that a tuneup for a '91 Dodge Stealth is
> nothing but replacing the spark plugs and air filter. Nothing
> has to be done with the timing or anything else. $350
> minimum!!! Is this crazy or what??? What can I do if I dont
> have the knowledge/tools to do it myself??

Well, you can try to do it yourself, but you'll need at a minimum a bunch of metric sockets, socket wrenches, socket extensions, torque wrench, each of the plenum/throttle-body gaskets, a full set of platinum plugs and whatever other things that might need replacement while you are in there.  From a dealer, expect to pay $100 for the set of 6 plugs.

The thing is that it isn't so much the spark plugs that you should be worried about.  Every 60,000 miles the timing belt MUST be replaced.  This is much more difficult than replacing the spark plugs and should not be attempted by a novice mechanic.  Figure on spending $1000 for a timing belt change with water pump and seals and hopefully they'll be able to do the spark plugs at the same time and work you a deal on it.  Don't have "Joe's Garage" do it, as there is a high probability of screwing up the timing belt job if the mechanic is not experienced in doing it.

You bought one of the most advanced sports cars of its time, nobody ever said it would be cheap!

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:21:25 -0800
From: Rich <rleroy@pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: $350 TO CHANGE SPARK PLUGS??

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Tim:

$350 is a bit steep.  At ~$12 each, your plugs should run you
$75 +/- (tax), plus about 2-2.5 hours shop labor.  At $65 per
hour for 2.5 hours, labor should run about $165 +/-.  This
brings you up to $240.  Air filters aren't pricey, and if you
already have a K&N, ignore this cost.  Are these shops quoting
you wires as well?  Maybe that's what the extra $ is for.

With a good set of metric sockets and wrenches, along with the
factory service manual, most anybody can do their plugs in a
couple hours.  Yes, it's a bit of a pain to pull the plenum,
but not impossible or even particularly a brain-strain.  Just
time-consuming and kinda tough on your back.  Note: be careful
when removing the EGR bolts from the back of the plenum, as the
metal gasket *WILL* want to drop and be lost forever.  If you
take care when removing your old metal gaskets, they can be
re-used if they are in good shape and you clean them off.

Rich
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Tim DeKeyser wrote:
>
<outrage snipped>
- --
"If you dig it, do it.
If you really dig it, do it twice"
- Jim Croce  (1943-1973)


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:35:40 -0600
From: "Trevor L. James" <trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Re: 95 to 96 differences was(Team3S: OBD-II tool for '95?)

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Yep, mine says OBDII certified on the emissions sticker. A few other differences
are a body colored roof (not black) and the dodge symbol up front is accented
with white paint. Mine was built in Dec 95' and now has 23,500 miles on it. Here
are some pics...

http://www.linkline.com/personal/amahoser/trevor.html

Trevor
96 R/T TT
92 GMC Typhoon

Curt Gendron wrote:

> ***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***
>
> There are a few other differences between a 95 and a 96.  On the 96 Stealth
> the spoiler is designed slightly different.  The spoiler curves up on the
> outside edges.  Like this:
> http://mn3s.org/new-fin.jpg
>
> In 96, both the Stealth and 3000GT switched to a darker tan leather instead
> of the beige found in 91-95.  Also the whole inside of the doors matched the
> color of the seats starting in 96. (not the standard charcoal gray color)
> Speaking of Charcoal gray...  That ended in 95.  96 Stealths and 3000GTs
> started using a black color for the dash.
>
> Francis is the MN 3/S member with the 96 R/T TT.  In was manufactered in
> January of 96.  So there are 96s, built in 1996.
>
> later,
> Curt
> "Rumor dispeller"
> Check out my CarParts.com page for 3/S specific parts at:
> http://www.mn3s.org/car-parts.html



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:20:09 -0500
From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tune up questions

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> '91 Stealth has 136,000 miles on it, and has not had a tune up in 60,0000
> miles! What should I have them do while they are in there?

Hi Tim,  I would recommend with that many miles that you do the following.

. Plugs
. Timing Belt
. Tensioner
. Water pump
. 4 front cam oil seals
. Front main crank oil seal

By replacing the water pump and oil seals you are protecting your investment
in the timing belt. If They go then you must replace the belt again.

Bob
93 Steatlth TT



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:34:08 -0700
From: "Ian Calegory" <iancalegory@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Problem has Mitsu shop foreman stumped

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Hi,

(1995 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4)

I've got a problem that is proving hard for my Mitsubishi service center to
figure out.  Here's what happens:

Under high torque, usually around 3500 - 4000 rpm, there is a "whining" or
"grinding" noise.  The people at the shop say the sound sensor they hooked
up tells them the noise is coming from the rear of the engine compartment,
so they think it "may" be the rear turbo, but they don't know for sure and
don't want to replace it only to discover the noise is still there.  They
say that they're pretty sure it's NOT the transmission or transfer case.

Please help!

Thanks,
Ian



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:36:35 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Problem has Mitsu shop foreman stumped

***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Ian...

What you're describing sounds like a bearing noise. If they're sure it's not
the transfer case or transmission, it can only (IMO) be one of two
things...the bearing in the rear turbo or a rod bearing on the crankshaft.
Either way, they should be able to isolate it with the old fashioned
stethoscope device (they sell them at almost all car parts stores).

Looking forward...Chris

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ian Calegory [mailto:iancalegory@home.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 3:34 PM
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: Problem has Mitsu shop foreman stumped

Hi,

(1995 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4)

I've got a problem that is proving hard for my Mitsubishi service center to
figure out.  Here's what happens:

Under high torque, usually around 3500 - 4000 rpm, there is a "whining" or
"grinding" noise.  The people at the shop say the sound sensor they hooked
up tells them the noise is coming from the rear of the engine compartment,
so they think it "may" be the rear turbo, but they don't know for sure and
don't want to replace it only to discover the noise is still there.  They
say that they're pretty sure it's NOT the transmission or transfer case.

Please help!

Thanks,
Ian


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:40:27 -0500
From: Michael Booker <mrbook@gate.net>
Subject: Team3S: EGT question.

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Who out there has an EGT sensor? Where did you get it? And if I do start
playing with an AFC for my car, how high can the temps go before I'll
ruin anything? This is a 1993 R/T NA.

Matt


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End of team3s V1 #24
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