team3s            Tuesday, February 1 2000            Volume 01 : Number 044




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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:28:32 -0800
From: "Darcy" <w.c.e@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: address alert

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Yo Team;

Please adjust your stored Team3S email address to reflect the new Team 3S
address. Occasional postings are still using the old address. These create
bounces and require the benevolence of an administrator to cut and paste
your query into a new format and address it properly.

Thanks in advance and back to your scheduled program.

Darc for the admin



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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:23:51 -0700
From: "CORY ESKELSEN" <CESKELSEN@email.msn.com>
Subject: Team3S: Downpipe? Is it worth the Trouble

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Stillen (and others) claim a ~23 hp increase with a downpipe.  I'm
interested.  Is it a waste of money?

Thanks,
Cory Eskelsen
96 R/T TT
#416




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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:13:04 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ECU Compatability (ADMIN NOTE)

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Trent, please do not send any messages to the old list anymore as this causes us some trouble, thanks !

> Would it be possible to swap the ECU from a 94-95 3sTT with a 93's ECU?
> Are the connectors and pins that plug into the ECU the same?

No, the connectors and diagnostic port connections to and from the ECU are not compatible !

Roger
93'3000GT TT


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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:29:37 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Downpipe? Is it worth the Trouble

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Cory...

The gain is significant when coupled with the removal of the precats and
main cat. I don't have before and after measurements, but the "butt dyno"
clearly showed an improvement over when I had my GReddy catback only. FWIW,
I used ATRs product.

There has been lots of discussion as well, about the logic of changing the
injectors first. It's about the same cost for each. Replacing the downpipe
is fairly easy, the precats are something of a hassle. The injector upgrade
is more likely to prevent engine damage.

Looking forward...Chris

- -----Original Message-----
From: CORY ESKELSEN [mailto:CESKELSEN@email.msn.com]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 10:24 PM
To: Team 3s
Subject: Team3S: Downpipe? Is it worth the Trouble


***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for more info.***


Stillen (and others) claim a ~23 hp increase with a downpipe.  I'm
interested.  Is it a waste of money?

Thanks,
Cory Eskelsen
96 R/T TT
#416




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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 06:45:12 -0600
From: "Bill Davis" <wjdavis@inlink.com>
Subject: Team3S: TSB Transmission Vent

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Not too long ago I thought someone posted information
about a little known TSB for the transmission vent leaking,
but I can't find it.

I had my car in Friday for oil change, and for the third time
in a row the transmission is leaking, we beleive from the vent.
Mitsu is ready to replace the tranny, it's under extended
warranty, and would only cost me $50.00. I would rather
have it fixed though if it's only leaking from the top vent.

We looked through the TSB listing they had, but could not
find it. The mechanics told me that's not unusual, for certain
TSB's though.

I would hate to get stuck with a pile of junk, my current
tranny is in great condition, other than this possible leak.

If anyone knows about this please let me know.

Bill Davis 95 VR-4




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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:33:58 +0100
From: "RG" <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Downpipe? Is it worth the Trouble

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> Stillen (and others) claim a ~23 hp increase with a downpipe.  I'm
> interested.  Is it a waste of money?

Cory, as usual the package is what counts. Three cars, two with different downpipes and one with stock setup showed zero difference on the dyno. The real restrictors are the pre-cats and then the downpipe starts to count. Some experienced a better spool-up after increasing boost and this is due to the better flow of the dp. Of course, this results in better et's on the track due to the better turbo spool-up but doesn't give you any horses. Again, it's the combination of gutted pre-cats, downpipe, high flow cat or testpipe, larger piping to the rear, better y to the mufflers and good mufflers that play the music.

Roger
93'3000GT TT




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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:23:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Burke <burke@pas.rochester.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Couple questions...

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well, i went out to grab some lunch yesterday from work... (i live in
rochester, ny and it's been snowing a bunch lately)  I got onto a stretch
of highway and took my '93 vr4 up to about 70mph at which point i noticed
a "wobble".  The car was noticeably wobbling from side to side.  I slowed
down and it went away.  I thought perhaps it might be something to do with
the tires, maybe one had a leak.  Maybe a loose lug nut.  Hopefully not
anything to do with the rest of the suspension.  So I stopped to get some
gas and took a look at the tires.  The pressure seemed good in all of
them, they didn't feel loose given a bit of a tug... however, I noticed a
buildup of snow inside the wheel.  I grabbed a rag I carry in the car and
tried to knock as much of it out from each wheel as I could.  I grabbed
some lunch at taco bell and took a route back to work with a nice, long
straightaway.  I took the car to about 80-85 and all the way there was no
wobble!  I thought that the snow MIGHT, on an outside chance, have been
the problem.  Ie: there were spots inside the wheel where there was more
snow than others, but overall I didn't think this would cause a wobble
like the one I had felt.  So, in conclusion, the wobble's gone, and i'm
left wondering if snow inside the wheels could really have caused it or if
it's going to come back to haunt me.

Secondly, I noticed while looking at the wheels that the chrome is a
little bit chipped by the nuts.  I looked at tirerack.com briefly, and I
was wondering if someone might mail me privately with what prices for four
nice wheels and tires SHOULD be. In addition, i was wondering if you can
just switch to 18" wheels without any problems, and what ramifications it
would have. (ie: speedo off, etc)

Thirdly, I realize that some, if not all, of the wheel questions are
likely to be covered in the archives... however, I can't seem to find them
anywhere.  Could someone post to the list the address at which we can
access them?  (I can't be the only one in the dark about this...)

Many thanks,
andy



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:30:06 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Couple questions...

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Andy,

I would definately say it was the snow that cuz your
wheel to wobble.  The snow actually caused your wheel
to be 'unbalanced'.  You know when you mount and
balance a new tire.. they stick on these lil weights
to perfect out the rotation.. so the snow inside ur
rim acts as extra weight.

As for the 18in wheel.  I wish you the best of luck
finding a set you like and THAT will fit your VR4! I
been looking for another set of 18s and had no luck.
Either they dont fit or they have to special order
from Japan! For a set of decent 18s with decent tires,
you would be looking at around $3000-$4000.

George
'92 RT TT
www.geocities.com/amkreadgto/intro.html

- --- Andrew Burke <burke@pas.rochester.edu> wrote:
> ***This is the NEW Team3S list. See message end for
> more info.***
>
>
> well, i went out to grab some lunch yesterday from
> work... (i live in
> rochester, ny and it's been snowing a bunch lately)
> I got onto a stretch
> of highway and took my '93 vr4 up to about 70mph at
> which point i noticed
> a "wobble".  The car was noticeably wobbling from
> side to side.  I slowed
> down and it went away.  I thought perhaps it might
> be something to do with
> the tires, maybe one had a leak.  Maybe a loose lug
> nut.  Hopefully not
> anything to do with the rest of the suspension.  So
> I stopped to get some
> gas and took a look at the tires.  The pressure
> seemed good in all of
> them, they didn't feel loose given a bit of a tug...
> however, I noticed a
> buildup of snow inside the wheel.  I grabbed a rag I
> carry in the car and
> tried to knock as much of it out from each wheel as
> I could.  I grabbed
> some lunch at taco bell and took a route back to
> work with a nice, long
> straightaway.  I took the car to about 80-85 and all
> the way there was no
> wobble!  I thought that the snow MIGHT, on an
> outside chance, have been
> the problem.  Ie: there were spots inside the wheel
> where there was more
> snow than others, but overall I didn't think this
> would cause a wobble
> like the one I had felt.  So, in conclusion, the
> wobble's gone, and i'm
> left wondering if snow inside the wheels could
> really have caused it or if
> it's going to come back to haunt me.
>
> Secondly, I noticed while looking at the wheels that
> the chrome is a
> little bit chipped by the nuts.  I looked at
> tirerack.com briefly, and I
> was wondering if someone might mail me privately
> with what prices for four
> nice wheels and tires SHOULD be. In addition, i was
> wondering if you can
> just switch to 18" wheels without any problems, and
> what ramifications it
> would have. (ie: speedo off, etc)
>
> Thirdly, I realize that some, if not all, of the
> wheel questions are
> likely to be covered in the archives... however, I
> can't seem to find them
> anywhere.  Could someone post to the list the
> address at which we can
> access them?  (I can't be the only one in the dark
> about this...)
>
> Many thanks,
> andy
>
>
>
> *** Please make sure you are using the NEW Team3S
> list address:
> team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subscribe/unsubscribe and all other important info
> is at:
> http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm ***
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:29:30 -0500
From: Del A Kolasinski <pearlvr42c@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Downpipe? Is it worth the Trouble

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I believe that a downpipe is a very wise thing to replace.  The stock
unit just looks terrible as flow is concerned.  Using the old butt dyno I
noticed two things when I added mine.  Note that I have the ATR unit
which replaces the main cat. and I gutted the pre-cats. at the same time.
My car would always drastically run out of steam up top, but after the
downpipe/gutted pre-cats. it "felt" like it pulled much harder to my
shifting point.  Secondly, down low the car felt like it produced much
more torque in 1st and the beginning of second gear.  Sorry no track
times because 2 days after the downpipe install, a good friend and I,
(mainly the good friend) installed 15G turbos.
Del
________________________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:44:12 -0800
From: "Bruce F. Body" <bbody@pacbell.net>
Subject: Team3S: 3S vs. F-Body

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My brother in law belongs to the So. Cal. F-Body club. Since we are
trying to setup a gathering over here, I was wondering if anyone would
be interested in drag racing these guys. They get preferential treatment
at Pomona Raceway. I've already contacted them to see if they are
interested. Let me know. (I hope this is not off topic)

Bruce
3Si #0243


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Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 20:42:37 +0100
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.vistec.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Downpipe? Is it worth the Trouble

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Beware of psycho-acoustics when using the butt-dyno... a more aggressive exhaust
note has a tendency to distort reality when it comes to performance gains.
Anyone who "upgraded" their normally aspirated S3 with a free-flowing exhaust
system can probably relate.  If you don't have access to a dyno, then use a
G-Tech!  Whether or not you think it's accurate, it IS consistent, which is all
you need to compare performance before and after an upgrade.

This thread gets back to the same old story that has been repeated countless
times on this list (see the archives)... significant performance gains will not
be realized through a partial exhaust system upgrade!  To quote what Roger
posted earlier:

> Three cars, two with different downpipes and one with stock setup showed
> zero difference on the dyno. The real restrictors are the pre-cats and
> then the downpipe starts to count.  Again, it's the combination of gutted
> pre-cats, downpipe, high flow cat or testpipe, larger piping to the rear,
> better y to the mufflers and good mufflers that play the music.


Also keep in mind that there is more to a successful exhaust upgrade than just
slapping a giant, straight-through pipe on the turbos.  Pipe diameter plays an
important role in exhaust heat retention, flow speed, density, turbulence, etc.
(anyone remember the URL to that excellent exhaust tutorial?).  Also note that
dyno testing indicates that a reduction in backpressure seems to shift the
torque curve higher in the rev band (ie- reduces torque at low RPMs), behavior
commonly seen in normally aspirated systems but somewhat surprising in a turbo
application (look at the dyno charts and draw your own conclusions if you
like).  Are you willing to sacrifice drivability for extra power above 6500
RPM?  Note that the main shortcoming of the G-Tech is that unlike a dyno, it
can't show you WHERE the power is better...  :-(

My $.02: concentrate on the fuel system first.  This will help protect your
engine from detonation and lean conditions while offering better performance for
less money (according to recent posts).

Good luck! -Jim
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.vistec.net (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Abex metallic brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque



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End of team3s V1 #44
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