--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #366
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest        Sunday, December 26 1999        Volume 01 : Number 366




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Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 21:53:18 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: MSD DIS-4 pricing

Seems to be the best price.... good luck, because you'll ned 3 of them for
our cars :(

Roger
93'3000GT TT

> Need MSD DIS-4. Jegs has for $345.95.
> Any known better pricing available?


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 20:24:18 -0600
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: MSD DIS-4 pricing

I believe the DIS-4 is a 3 or 4 channel switchable unit.  For our cars you
set it to 3 channel.  I believe our real problem lies with those coil packs
though.

Roger, weren't you working on a replacement for those?  Any luck?

Happy holidays everyone!

John Basol
'95 RT/TT

-----Original Message-----
From: R.G. [SMTP:robby@freesurf.ch]
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 1999 2:53 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Cc: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: MSD DIS-4 pricing

Seems to be the best price.... good luck, because you'll ned 3 of
them for
our cars :(

Roger
93'3000GT TT

> Need MSD DIS-4. Jegs has for $345.95.
> Any known better pricing available?


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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 01:04:05 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo Question (old post)

Catching up on all my old Team3S mail . . .

"Basol, John" wrote:

>         As I'm driving to work this morning in my commuter car (a 1st Gen
> DSM w/ a manual boost controller), I commented to wife: "Damn I love how
> this things pulls so strong to the redline."  It hit me like a
> rock...14B's!?!  The first Gen DSMs use a single 14B turbo that on that 2.0
> liter four is capable of holding 17-18psi easy to the line.  Cost?  Damn...I
> have seen those things going on the DSM trader for 100-200 a piece.  Will
> those things bolt to our manifold?  Seems to me they might be a good
> intermediate step.

I don't think this portion of your post ever got responded to ...

According to one source, 14B is supposed to flow more than a 15G.
The 14B from the first-gen Eclipse uses a TD05 housing, so it won't bolt
up to the stock manifold.

Also, here's a quote from Jack T.

>something better than the 13G offered direct from Mitsu, I spoke with
>Mitsu Heavy Industries Turbocharger Division engineers and hashed some
>things out. I was considering getting a 14B compressor wheel instead of the
>13G but they said the 14B "don't flow for shit", and are not as good as the
>13G I already had.

I assume this would have been 14B in a TD04 housing.

Maybe you've already decided by now, but I don't see any reason to
hesitate on 15Gs.  They have been proven time and time again, and I've
heard no complaints about lag, nor did I notice lag on my friend's car
with the 15Gs.  Somebody a while back noted on the list that he noticed
much ~less~ lag when he went to 13Gs ...

- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle, WA

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 01:23:55 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fuel pump voltage (old post)

"R.G." wrote:

> > Here's what I think is the solution:
> > New larger (how large?) wires direct from the battery to the fuel pump. This
> > wire must be fused (how many amp?) and connected to a relay. If we put the
> > relay close to the pump, I guess we can use the old fuel pump voltage wire
> > to trigger the new relay.
>
> Sure, why not. But you may short the pump relay that switches the voltage. The
> larger pump I have is not hearable unless the relay switches and it runs on
> battery voltage. The sound is like a whining in the rear but not a big problem.
> People say that the Denso pumps are less noisier than the Walbros and therefore
> a Walbro pump running at 14V when cruising around would be very annoying :(

The Supra fuel pump has become a well-suggested fuel pump upgrade
for our cars, given its impressive capabilities.  Some interesting information
from their website:

>From http://www.mkiv.com
>Under idle conditions and cruising, the fuel pump ECU sends a reduced
>voltage output to the fuel pump(9 volts), and the fuel pump operates in "low
>speed".  When engine sensors determine a high engine load, the fuel pump
>ECU will send a full 12 volt signal to the fuel pump, kicking it into "high
>speed" so that it will supply more fuel.
>
>When modifications are made to the car to increase boost pressure and
>engine breathing ability, some owners have experienced detonation around
>4000 rpm, as the 2nd turbo builds boost and comes on line.  Usually, this
>detonation disappears above 5000 rpm.  The problem is, the fuel pump
>is still in "low speed" mode around 4000 rpm's, but the performance mod-
>ifications have increased fuel demand to the point of "outrunning" the low
>speed operation.  By 5000 rpm, the fuel pump ECU has caught up and
>switches to high speed operation and all detonation disappears.
>
>There is an easy way around this.  You can wire a 12 volt signal directly to
>the fuel pump, effectively bypassing the fuel pump ECU so that the fuel pump
>is always in high speed operation.  The TT Supra is one of only a few cars
>that has this dual mode of fuel pump operation, whereas most cars always
>have 12 volts to the fuel pump.  This mod is completely safe. [snip]

Question:  With the Supra fuel pump installed in a 3000GT, would it be
necessary to take measures to make the fuel pump run in 12V full time?
Or will it automatically run full time in 12V when installed in my car?
Read more at mkiv.com --> tech articles --> other mods --> 12V fuel
pump mod.

Also, I'm interested in this possibility of running it in 14V using the Kenne
Belle thingie.  Safety first, ya know.

- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle, WA

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 01:49:35 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Chrysler DRB II scan tool for sale (old post)

"R.G." wrote:

> > This scanner is $2,800 dealer cost. I will let mine go for $1,500.  It is
> > basically brand new.  Comes with all the different cables to do both
> > Chrysler and Mitsubishi.

>The TMO datalogger has a DRBII simulation mode built in ... cost is $300 for
>OBDI systems (90-93 and some 94) ! Cable is the same for Stealth and 3k.

How can I check whether the TMO will work on my '94?

- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle, WA
94 VR4

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 01:54:33 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water Injection (old post)

"R.G." wrote:

> > much knock is present and the timing is getting retarded. And therefore the
> > ECU is trying to adjust boost.

>Almost true. But we all know that boost is calculated from the airflow and
>therefore not real. Now the ECU sees a specific boost then and starts to close
>the BS. This is because the system simply wants to keep the boost at the stock
>level. Therefore it is closed long before we really hit our desired boost
>levels. Of course this changes when using a fuel controller!

So you're saying that the stock boost solenoid must be "told" to
activate by the ECU (after it has calculated boost from airflow)?

So the stock boost solenoid does not simply activate by itself
mechanically at the preset stock boost levels?

Or do both of these things work together?

- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle, WA

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 01:58:30 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: What does the "J" stand for?

Klusmanp@aol.com wrote:

> I've been looking for rims recently and trying to match the dia. and width of
> the stock rims. For '91 VR4 the stock rim is 17 x 8.5J - anybody know what
> the "J" is for in this spec?

I've never been able to figure out what it means, but I don't
think it is significant.  Japanese wheel manufacturs tend to either
put "J" or "JJ" after the wheel width for ~all~ their wheels, or
they put nothing at all.  I wouldn't be concerned about it.

- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle, WA

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 02:06:52 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Vr-4 launching (old post)

Merritt wrote:

> Ever since, I've wondered if perhaps applying a little water or bleach to
> the tires prior to a launch might help out. It would let me get a good
> launch without having to do destroy my clutch and Getrag in the process.

I know some of the DSM guys spray something called VHT
on their tires before races.  I had assumed this was something
to help them gain traction, but I'm not sure.

Raising tire pressure is often sufficient to get adequate wheelspin
at launch to protect your drivetrain.  I have video of Julian's VR4
(stock turbos/clutch) doing a half-FISHTAIL launch on a dry track.
After that run all the DSM guys gave him major props.  :)

Low tire pressures increase risk of breakage significantly.  What
will really kill your clutch is repeated runs without an adequate
cool-down period in between.

- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle, wA

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 02:15:15 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: clutch MATERIALS

xwing wrote:

> There is supposedly an O S Giken clutch out of Japan
> that uses multiple discs (2 or 3?) with plates, like many
> circle track designs, to increase torque capacity.  I
> think it may wear more quickly (more surfaces being
> worn away, a 7.5" triple disc on my TA wore super
> fast but that is an extreme example) and it costs ?$2000 or more?
>  I have wondered if it were actually manufactured by Tilton
> or another USA manufacturer, but never searched out
> the info...

A local speedshop has a project 93 VR4 in their shop which
just got TE37 wheels and the Brembo 13" kit.  He hasn't decided
which turbos to go with (i.e. the shop hasn't decided how much
to rip him off yet).

Anyways, he's supposedly getting some sort of clutch called
the "Red Claw" which is a dual disc clutch like you are talking
about.  Supposedly, 10-sec DSMs have used it to dump off
the rev-limiter.  It's supposed to be super-safe for the tranny.
It also runs a healthy $2300.

If you want, I can try to find out more.  Keep in mind I really
don't have much respect for this shop or their tuner.  I've quizzed
them on the usual stuff, and they sound more clueless than the
kid who owns the car (and believe me, he is really clueless).
This is just the resurrected Grim Sleeper.

- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle, wA

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 02:24:31 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: injectors and questions

Rick D wrote:

> So, I guess my question for the pro's out there is:  Do you think I should
> install the larger fuel pump even though it appears as though I do not need
> it?  Keep in mind that this pump cost approx $400 (It is the HKS unit).  So
> I do not want to waste the $400 if it is not totally necc.

According to many calculations I've seen on this list, you need
an upgraded fuel pump running anything higher than 15 psi.

According to Barry King:

>At 15 PSI you need up to 55 PSI at the injectors.  Here's where it starts to
>get interesting.  The stock fuel pump is rated at 180 lph @ 43 PSI assuming
>stock wiring (ie roughly 12v to the pump).  At 55 PSI the pump can deliver
>only 140 lph.
>
>So, assuming 15 PSI and a relatively stock VR4 making roughly 340 HP,
>you need 128 lph from the pump.  The stock pump should be up to the task
>but just barely.

Hope that helps,

- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle, wA



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 02:28:26 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Will different wheel offset change handling?

"Mohler, Jeff" wrote:

> Mind you, if you widen track using spacers, you MUST MUST MUST get longer
> wheel-studs.

I've been told that this isn't necessary with only a 5mm spacer.
Your thoughts?

I'm sure it'll just be best to play it safe.

- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle, wA

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 02:31:23 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Are 2nd gen brake Calipers WIDER than 1st?

Mark wrote:

> This is taken from www.3000gt.com and applies to all years and models as
> far as I can tell:

>
> "Stock size if 17" x 8.5"or 18" x 8.5". Centerline offset is 42mm"

Sounds like a correction might be in order.

My owner's manual lists the wheel offset for my '94 as 46mm.

I ~really~ hope that stock offset isn't 42mm because I'm going
to need every mm of clearance I can get with the crazy wheel
setup which I custom ordered from Japan.

- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle, wA

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 02:53:33 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Downforce

Chris Winkley wrote:

> I believe Veilside is known for their cosmetic body kits. I checked out the
> web address you posted and saw no claims for improved downforce from the
> rear spoilers listed. For that matter, I didn't see any claims for improved
> performance from any of their body kits. Do have access to some data you can
> share?

Chris,

Julian just got his car back from the shop with the new original Veilside
kit installed.  I got to enjoy looking at it as we drove all over town, and
when we got back we just sat in the garage and stared.

The overall design of the kit is excellent (to say nothing of the build quality
which was absolutely superb, according to the body shop owner). Veilside
is well known in Japan for taking aerodynamics very seriously.

The intercooler openings are ~much~ larger, and the middle inner-mouth
"walls" also direct air towards them.  The overall front end appears to be
more aerodynamic.  The side skirts get rid of the fake holes.  The sideskirts
also flare out at the bottom which looks breathtaking, in my opinion.  The
entire kit is much lower to the ground, and getting rid of active  aero is a
given.

The rear spoiler adds significant downforce.  It is adjustable to two (possibly
three) different angles of attack.  The highest angle of attack appears to be
higher than the stock 91-96 VR4 rear wing (I'll have to measure next chance
I get), and the total surface area is much larger than the stock wing.  With
the carbon fiber wing and the stock active aero gone, there are significant
weight saving to be had.

I'm sure Julian will have more to say (once he gets back from Singapore).
He's not just the first VR4 in the US with the new Veilside kit.  With brand
new paint, 18" Challenges, x-drilled rotors, circular taillights, and 2.5" drop,
he has in my opinion the most impressive looking 3000GT I've ever seen.

- --Errin Humphrey  :)
Seattle, wA

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 13:27:14 +0100
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Team3S: buying parts via INTERNET

I apologize for the non-tech post, but...

My Tour/Sport exhaust dash switch broke last week when I bumped it
reaching for the rear wiper switch, and I'd like to get a replacement
via the net.  What's the best way to do this?  Does Tall. Mitsu handle
such requests?  What's their contact info?  Is there a way I can look up
the part number for the switch?  Thank you!

- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.vistec.net (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Abex metallic brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 14:37:36 -0500
From: Michael Booker <mrbook@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Vr-4 launching (old post)

Speaking or tires/pressure and all..A friend of mine has a race car and
he sprays some stuff on the tires to make them softer and so they stick
well. I'll get the recepie if you guys want. It's like a mix or brake
fluid and some other stuff.

Matt
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 17:12:41 -0500
From: Jay Price Stump <jstump@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S: Engine for 91 R/T Turbo

I am looking at having my engine rebuilt. Does anyone know of quality
rebuilders in the Baltimore/ Washington area. How many $$$ should I be
looking to spend for a stock rebuild and  a moderate performance
rebuild. I figure if I have the interenal now I can always upgrade the
bolt- ons. Would I be better off getting a short/long block from
Misubishi than getting my engine rebuilt. Thanks for your comments/help.

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------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #366
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