--
From:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To:
stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.comSubject:
Team3S Digest V1 #359
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender:
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Team3S Digest Thursday,
December 16 1999 Volume 01 : Number
359
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:35:55 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <
errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: What's that exhaust again?
Kevin wrote:
>
> 1. Is the pipe from the main cat back a 3-in. pipe?
> Yes on
non california models. European and CA cars had a different system
>
with 2 3/4" pipe and a resonator. (according to Roger)
Thanks for
the heads up!
Correction to my last post: I mentioned that post-cat
piping is
2.75", but I forgot to mention that my car is a CA
version.
- --Errin Humphrey
Seattle, WA
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:06:43 CST
From: "Curt Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: What's that exhaust again?
I'd be very surprised if the
exhaust system on CA cars is any different then
the rest. I've worked
on both OBD I and OBD II downpipes and cats and they
are the same
diameter. The only difference being the extra two O2 sensors
on the
OBD II. I know that Buscher sells a test pipe for our cars and it
fits
all years. If the diameter of the exhaust was different, I would think
the same test pipe wouldn't fit if the exhausts were different. My
Stealth
is a non-CA car and it has 2 3/4 inch
exhaust.
later,
Curt
Join us at the Upper Midwest Gathering in
May. Check out
http://www.mn3s.org/upper-midwest.html
for details.
>From: Errin Humphrey <
errin@u.washington.edu>
>To:
3/S Sirius Mailing List <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject:
Re: Team3S: What's that exhaust again?
>Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:35:55
-0800
>
>Kevin wrote:
>
> > > 1. Is
the pipe from the main cat back a 3-in. pipe?
> > Yes on non california
models. European and CA cars had a different
>system
> >
with 2 3/4" pipe and a resonator. (according to
Roger)
>
>Thanks for the heads up!
>
>Correction to my
last post: I mentioned that post-cat piping is
>2.75", but I
forgot to mention that my car is a CA version.
>
>--Errin
Humphrey
>Seattle, WA
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm______________________________________________________
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Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:56:41 +0100
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: What's that exhaust again?
> I'd be very surprised if the
exhaust system on CA cars is any different then
> the rest. I've
worked on both OBD I and OBD II downpipes and cats and they
> are the
same diameter.
We are not speaking about the front at stuff. The cat back
on my EU car is smaller than 3" on the inner side. This is why the ATR cat
and pipe came with a restriction down to the 2 1/2" piping. Also there is a
small resonator in the piping before the diff. Just have a look at the
manuals.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:56:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: What's that exhaust again?
>> My concern with this
approach is weight. When I
>> pulled my stock exhaust, it was VERY
heavy (I wish
>> I had weighed it before it hit the scrap
heap).
Here are approximate weights (in pounds) of the stock
exhaust
system compared to the ATR system for my 1992
Stealth TT (non-CA car). I used
a bathroom scale.
Brackets are not
included.
stock
ATR
Downpipe
15 10
Main
cat
15 5 (test pipe 2#)
Exhaust from
cat back 54
56
Stock from cat back was weighed as one piece (as
removed). ATR
pieces were weighed individually.
Jeff Lucius 1992 Stealth
TT
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Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:04:45 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: What's that exhaust again?
Folks...
Roger makes a good
point. We should specify whether we're referring to ID
(Inside Diameter) or
OD (Outside Diameter). I've been referring to ID in my
posts. However, I have
never taken a set of calipers to the ID (or OD, which
wouldn't matter too
much to me).
I was speaking of my dealings with ATR, where they say they
provide a
reduction from 3" to 2.5" in order to mate to the stock
catback system.
Since I already had a 3" catback exhaust, I had to have
the reduction
section removed and a 3" flange welded on.
Looking
forward...Chris
- -----Original Message-----
From: R.G. [
mailto:robby@freesurf.ch]
Sent:
Wednesday, December 15, 1999 6:57 AM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: What's that exhaust again?
> I'd be very surprised if the
exhaust system on CA cars is any different
then
> the rest. I've
worked on both OBD I and OBD II downpipes and cats and
they
> are the
same diameter.
We are not speaking about the front at stuff. The cat back
on my EU car is
smaller than 3" on the inner side. This is why the ATR
cat and pipe came
with a restriction down to the 2 1/2" piping. Also
there is a small
resonator in the piping before the diff. Just have a look at
the manuals.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:33:58 +0100
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: What's that exhaust again?
Even more, the Borla cat-back comes
with a reduction flange from 3" to 2 1/2" (inside) that bolts onto the
stock cat. My system looks really ugly now with the reduction from the cat to
the flange and then another one that goes back to 3".
The Borla cat
back is damn light and I tell you my car was higher in the rear after the
installation (SUV look !) I currently run the stock system due to the last gov
test I've done and had no time to change it back. I'll do it in spring and will
them measure the Borla weight (or when I ever clean up my garage,
hehe)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
> I was speaking of my dealings
with ATR, where they say they provide a
> reduction from 3" to
2.5" in order to mate to the stock catback system.
> Since I already
had a 3" catback exhaust, I had to have the reduction
> section
removed and a 3" flange welded on.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:56:34 -0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: This is exhausting!
I am beginning to get the picture
here.
Based on what everyone SEEMS to be saying, the stock catback pipe
is 2-3/4
in. OD (2.5 in. ID) while aftermarket performance add-ons, such as
the ATR
downpipe, are 3 in. OD.
As Chris Winkley points out, if you
put an ATR downpipe on, it comes with a
sleeve to neck down to the stock
size.
So, if one planned to upgrade from the downpipe all the way back,
then it
would be best to make the Y-connection at the rear end a 3 incher (3
in.
inlet, two 2-1/2 in. outlets), so it would be able to accommodate
future
updates to an all 3 in. system. In the meantime, a simple sleeve would
let
it fit the stock 2-3/4 in. pipe from the cat back.
Thanks,
guys.
Rich/old poop
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:22:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: What's that exhaust again?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Winkley <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: What's that exhaust again?
> Folks...
>
>
Roger makes a good point. We should specify whether
> we're referring to
ID (Inside Diameter) or OD
>(Outside Diameter). I've been referring to ID
in my
> posts. However, I have never taken a set of calipers
> to
the ID .... snip
Hmmm, well I have mic'd the ATR exhaust and some
of
the stock exhaust for my 1992 Stealth TT (I haven't
cut up the old one
yet to measure all IDs :) ). Here
are the nominal IDs in inches at the ends
of the pipe.
I haven't measured all the ODs on the ATR to calculate
the
IDs in the middles and bends of the pipes. The
last column is the percent
increase in cross-sectional
area of the ATR pipe/opening over the stock
ones.
stock
ATR %increase
Downpipe
inlets
1.95
2.3
39
Downpipe outlet
2.415
2.875 42
main
cat
2.37-2.45
3.035 64-54
pipe after
cat
2.45
pipes after
cat
2.8-2.88 31-38
Jeff Lucius 1992
Stealth TT
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Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:59:01 -0500
From: "Kevin Schappell" <
kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: This is exhausting!
Rich,
I measured my stock pipe
from the cat back with a caliper and it's slightly
over 3" It's
probably 80mm since it's a metric car. If your car is not
from CA or
Europe then it will be the same size as mine. I don't see any
need to
replace the pipe from the converter to the rear axle. Just go with
your
idea of the y-pipe and new mufflers. If you want to check it out, cut
a
3" slot in a piece of cardboard and lay under the car and check it
out.
You can get to the pipe very easy without jacking it
up.
Kevin Schappell
Auto Answers
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Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:41:03 -0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: This is exhausting!
Kevin Schappell says:
>I measured
my stock pipe from the cat back with a caliper and it's slightly
>over
3" It's probably 80mm since it's a metric car.
Gee, I
thought I had figured it out.
What's going on here? Why does everyone get
different measurements for the
same pipes?
I guess I better be
prepared for anything when we crawl under there.
Rich/old poop/94
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:45:28 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: This is exhausting!
Rich...
Again, I'm pretty sure
we're mixing numbers. Jeff sent a post with ID
(Inside Diameter)
measurements, while it appears (to me, if he's using a set
of calipers from
under the car) that Kevin is measuring OD (Outside
Diameter). We REALLY
should specify our measurement terminology (ID, OD,
English, Metric,
etc.).
Looking forward...Chris
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Merritt [
mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent:
Wednesday, December 15, 1999 9:41 AM
To: Kevin Schappell;
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
RE: Team3S: This is exhausting!
Kevin Schappell says:
>I measured
my stock pipe from the cat back with a caliper and it's slightly
>over
3" It's probably 80mm since it's a metric car.
Gee, I
thought I had figured it out.
What's going on here? Why does everyone get
different measurements for the
same pipes?
I guess I better be
prepared for anything when we crawl under there.
Rich/old poop/94
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:59:24 -0800
From: Dan Jett <
djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Intake plenum/manifold questions...
** High Priority
**
Hello, all...
I've posted this question elsewhere, (thanks for
the input, Roger!),
but I figured there may be more information
available...
I have a 94 Stealth TT, and I've recently aqquired a '99 VR4
intake
plenum and manifold. There are two extra ports, (one is MAP
sensor
port, the other, well, your guess is as good as mine!). There are
(I
think) two extra hose connections as well.
My dillemna is this: I wish
to have the units portmatched, maybe
extrude honed, and polished, as an
upgrade to my 94 mill...I'm not
sure how feasible it is to modify the intake
plenum for gauging
pressure, or if I should just have them filled.
Roger brought up an
interesting point that the throttle body may not even fit
the new
plenum. Has anyone had any experience with porting
their
plenum/manifold?
I'm looking for information as to the
functionality of these extra
ports...I'm not sure if anyone has a '99 shop
manual, (certainly not
here in the bay area!), but I would really appreciate
any ideas,
thoughts, or comments on this issue.
Also, has anyone here with
honed intake systems noticed any
improvement over stock? Any quantifiable
results?
Thanks in advance for the help!
Dan J
94 Stealth
TT
Centerforce DF clutch
K/N FIPK
Greddy exhaust
For
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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:15:29 -0500
From: "Kevin Schappell" <
kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: This is exhausting!
Either way the stock pipes are not
1/8" wall so if I say 3"OD or 3"ID there
is NO way you could
confuse it with 2 1/2" pipe or even 2 3/4" I do not know
if the
exhaust pipe is metric or standard, HKS lists their systems in
MM
however. I did measure the pipe with a caliper therefore the 3"
measurement
I gave was OD.
Take care,
Kevin Schappell
Auto
Answers
Free automotive classifieds and more.
http://www.pacarsearch.com-
----------NEW (under construction)----------
If you love cars you have to
visit MOTORHEAD CAFE
http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Winkley [
mailto:cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com]
>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 12:45 PM
> To: 'Merritt'
> Cc:
Kevin Schappell;
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: This is exhausting!
>
>
>
Rich...
>
> Again, I'm pretty sure we're mixing numbers. Jeff sent a
post with ID
> (Inside Diameter) measurements, while it appears (to me,
if
> he's using a set
> of calipers from under the car) that Kevin
is measuring OD (Outside
> Diameter). We REALLY should specify our
measurement
> terminology (ID, OD,
> English, Metric,
etc.).
>
> Looking forward...Chris
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:52:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: This is exhausting!
OK, I just cut through the exhaust pipe
about 18
inches behind the main cat fitting. Micrometer
measurements are
below. The exhaust pipe is necked
down to fit the cat (and in many other
places!).
Stock 1992 Stealth TT exhaust pipe:
nominal
OD:
2.97 (inches)
nominal
ID:
2.84 (inches)
nominal wall thickness: 0.065 (inches)
Jeff Lucius
1992 Stealth TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Schappell
<
kevin@pacarsearch.com>
To:
'Chris Winkley' <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Cc:
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, December 15, 1999 12:15 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: This is
exhausting!
> Either way the stock pipes are not 1/8" wall so if
I
> say 3"OD or 3"ID there is NO way you could confuse
>
it with 2 1/2" pipe or even 2 3/4" I do not know
> if the
exhaust pipe is metric or standard, HKS lists
> their systems in MM
however. I did measure the pipe
> with a caliper therefore the
3" measurement I gave
> was OD.
>
> Take care,
>
> Kevin
Schappell
__________________________________________________
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Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:22:03 -0500
From: Rick D <
rick@ceo-consulting.com>
Subject:
Team3S: injectors and questions
Just a quick note to the
collective...
I just installed the 550cc denso injectors this past
weekend. What a
difference. Before (with the stock 360's) the
car would sputter and seem
to have very little power above 5500rpms and
anything over 14psi and the
car would just fall on its face... also
the lights on my cyberdyne would
fall off after about 5300rpm,
regardless of how high I turned up the AFC.
So, needless to say, I
realized I needed the additional fuel. However, I
never realized just
how much of a difference the injectors would make. For
those of you debating
purchasing the 550's all I can say is DO IT. Here
are the current mods
to my 94.
13g turbos - Brand New Mitsu units- Euro spec
Cartech (AMS)
intercoolers
AMS hard pipe kit
Greddy Profec B boost controller
ATR
downpipe
front pre-cat eliminated, rear pre-cat hogged out, main cat
gone
HKS cat back exhaust (from test pipe to tailpipes)
AFC fuel
controller
Denso 550cc injectors
G-Froce ECU upgrade
K&N
FIPK
Spark plugs gapped at .034
Magnecore wires
Cyberdyne A/F
gauge
SPI boost gauge - yellow (30psi max)
I also have the Cosmo 3
rotor RX7 fuel pump but am not really sure that I
want to install it... the
reason I say this is because before I put the
550's in the car, I could only
run a MAX boost of 14 or so. Now with the
injectors I am running 18psi
CONSTANT boost and the cyberdyne is sitting at
FULL RICH all the way to
redline. This is with the AFC knobs turned WAY
DOWN. (to like
-18% or so)
So, I guess my question for the pro's out there is: Do
you think I should
install the larger fuel pump even though it appears as
though I do not need
it? Keep in mind that this pump cost approx $400
(It is the HKS unit). So
I do not want to waste the $400 if it is not
totally necc.
I have not yet had a chance to hook up the DRB to the car
to see if it is
picking up any knock, but like I said, the cyberdyne is
sitting at full
rich @ 18psi boost (every light is lit under WOT) and I hear
absolutely
zero knock. (although I do understand that this does not
necc mean that
there is NO knock)
The car is pulling so hard now with
the 550 injectors that the clutch is
slipping (pretty bad) in third and
fourth gear on a roll on I-95. So,
needless to say, I am extremely
happy with the performance, but was curious
as to what you guys thought
about the fuel pump. As far as I know the fuel
pump that is in it, is
a stock 94 TT pump. I bought the car used, but I
doubt the last owner
(a Cardiologist) changed it out.
Thanks!
Rick
94 TT
6
speed
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:46:38 -0600
From: "Trevor Jones" <
trevor_jones@lacrosse-net.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Need install and tuning tips, pics,etc. on APEX AVC-R
My name is
TJ. I'm new to the list and from the LaCrosse, WI area. I own
a
maroon 93 3kGT VR4. Finally recieved my Apex AVC-R and was wondering
if
anyone had install tips, pics, or tuning instructions. If this is
redundant
for the list please e-mail me directly.
Also, what would you
guys recommend as my next upgrade? Not really
concerned about cost,
just the upgrade that will provide the most hp for my
buck. Should
aftermarket exhaust be next?
Thanks,
tj
1993 3kGT VR4
K+N
FIPK
Apex AVC-R(to be installed soon)
On my 2nd Getrag Tranny
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:18:33 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Need install and tuning tips, pics,etc. on APEX AVC-R
Trevor
(TJ)...
Welcome. Conventional mod staging would indicate intake and
exhaust should
be next for you. The dyno results from our friends in Europe
indicate the
fuel system (both injectors and pump) are the weak link, not
just from a
performance perspective, but because running too lean will lead
to
detonation...the engine killer.
Looking forward...Chris
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Jones [
mailto:trevor_jones@lacrosse-net.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, December 15, 1999 1:47 PM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Team3S: Need install and tuning tips, pics,etc. on APEX AVC-R
My name
is TJ. I'm new to the list and from the LaCrosse, WI area. I own
a
maroon 93 3kGT VR4. Finally recieved my Apex AVC-R and was wondering
if
anyone had install tips, pics, or tuning instructions. If this is
redundant
for the list please e-mail me directly.
Also, what would you
guys recommend as my next upgrade? Not really
concerned about cost,
just the upgrade that will provide the most hp for my
buck. Should
aftermarket exhaust be next?
Thanks,
tj
1993 3kGT VR4
K+N
FIPK
Apex AVC-R(to be installed soon)
On my 2nd Getrag Tranny
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:32:11 +0100
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Team3S:
Re: This is exhausting!
Yep, you got it !!!
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
> I am beginning to get the picture here.
>
> Based on
what everyone SEEMS to be saying, the stock catback pipe is 2-3/4
> in. OD
(2.5 in. ID) while aftermarket performance add-ons, such as the ATR
>
downpipe, are 3 in. OD.
>
> As Chris Winkley points out, if you put
an ATR downpipe on, it comes with
a
> sleeve to neck down to the stock
size.
>
> So, if one planned to upgrade from the downpipe all the
way back, then it
> would be best to make the Y-connection at the rear end
a 3 incher (3 in.
> inlet, two 2-1/2 in. outlets), so it would be able to
accommodate future
> updates to an all 3 in. system. In the meantime, a
simple sleeve would let
> it fit the stock 2-3/4 in. pipe from the cat
back.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:03:46 -0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: A little off topic, I suppose
OLYMPIA, Wash.--(BUSINESS
WIRE)--Dec. 15, 1999-- BigWigAuctions.com
(
www.bigwigauctions.com), the luxury
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supercar.
This event marks the first time an auction has
been held on the
Internet for a car of this magnitude. The reserve bid
auction for the
McLaren F1 includes delivery and ends January 3,
2000.
The auction of the rare McLaren F1 provides supercar
enthusiasts an
opportunity to purchase one of the most powerful production
cars ever made.
The F1 can blast from 0 to 60 miles per hour in a mere 3.2
seconds, making
it faster than many of the race cars on the Formula One tour.
Only 100
McLaren F1s have been produced and the F1 offered by BigWigAuctions
is one
of the last 13 models built. The total value is estimated at over
$1.1
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Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:54:22 -0700
From: "Cory Eskelsen" <
ceskelsen@email.msn.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Nitrous; Induce or Reduce Knock?
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Would a 50 (or 75, 100, etc.) shot of nitrous induce or
reduce the =
amount of knock on a TT? =20
Thanks,
Cory
Eskelsen
96 R/T TT
#416
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bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Century
Gothic">Would a 50 (or 75, 100, etc.) shot of =
nitrous=20
induce
or reduce the amount of knock on a TT?
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=3D"Century
Gothic">Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=3D"Century Gothic">Cory
Eskelsen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Century
Gothic">96 R/T TT</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
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Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:09:43 -0600
From: "Owens, Trent L." <
Trent.Owens@destia.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Nitrous; Induce or Reduce Knock?
Cory,
It will Definitely
induce more knock due to the higher Oxygen content
present during
combustion. Adding more Oxygen will increase combustion
chamber temps,
which in turn will increase knock. The Nitrogen will act as
a buffer
but its not much help.....
An analogy would be a oxyacetylene Cutting
torch. The more oxygen you add,
to a certain amount of fuel, the higher
the temperatures become.
I am no chemestry guru... So if anyone would
like to correct me or add
too.... Please feel free!
However, a
50 shot of N2O would be beneficial from vacuum to about 5lbs of
boost coming
off the line. This will help the turbos spool quicker and
might
introduce some important wheel spin. If you do this you need to be
very
careful! Use it wrong..... $$$$$$$$$!
Hope this
helps.....
Trent
'95 RT TT
APEXi AVC-R new
style.
"Aggieland" College Station, TX
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Cory Eskelsen [
mailto:ceskelsen@email.msn.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, December 15, 1999 8:54 PM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Team3S: Nitrous; Induce or Reduce Knock?
Would a 50 (or 75, 100,
etc.) shot of nitrous induce or reduce the amount of
knock on a TT?
Thanks,
Cory Eskelsen
96 R/T TT
#416
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:20:49 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Nitrous; Induce or Reduce Knock?
Although a lean condition (more oxygen)
can increase knock or make a knock
problem worse, it is really the higher
cylinder pressures that cause knock,
or rather, the relationship between
cylinder pressure and the ability of the
charge to resist detonation. (octane
rating of the fuel).
The presumption here, of course, is that anyone
adding nitrous will also be
compensating for the increased fuel demand.
If they aren't doing that then
they have no business fooling around with
nitrous oxide.
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> Cory,
> It will Definitely induce more knock
due to the higher Oxygen content
> present during combustion. Adding
more Oxygen will increase combustion
> chamber temps, which in turn will
increase knock. The Nitrogen
> will act as
> a buffer but its
not much help.....
> An analogy would be a oxyacetylene Cutting
torch. The more
> oxygen you add,
> to a certain amount of
fuel, the higher the temperatures become.
>
> I am no chemestry
guru... So if anyone would like to correct me or add
> too....
Please feel free!
>
> However, a 50 shot of N2O would be beneficial
from vacuum to about 5lbs of
> boost coming off the line. This will
help the turbos spool quicker and
> might introduce some important wheel
spin. If you do this you need to be
> very careful! Use it
wrong..... $$$$$$$$$!
>
> Hope this helps.....
>
>
Trent
>
> '95 RT TT
> APEXi AVC-R new style.
>
"Aggieland" College Station, TX
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:28:45 EST
From:
Klusmanp@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Will
different wheel offset change handling?
Several of the aftermarket rims
I'm looking at have an offset that puts the
wheel further outboard than
stock. (for clearance on the brake calipers) In
one case the rim offset puts
the tire centerline (i.e. contact patch) about
1/2" outboard of stock
(OZ Italy Competition).
Anybody experience changes in handling from
something like this?
In particluar, I would think that the amount of
feedback into the steering
wheel would increase as you move the wheels
outboard. The tire contact patch
is further away from the steering pivot
point and has greater leverage for
applying force back into the steering
mechanism.
Anybody know what the distance is from tire centerline to
steering pivot
point?
If the distance is 10" then 1/2"
isn't that big of a change. If the distance
is 2" then 1/2" is
more significant.
Thanks!
Paul Klusman
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:35:20 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Kevlar vs Ceramic Clutches-JackT, RPS Reply
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This is going into the FAQ in a few days, but it's a
recent thread so I =
thought I'd forward Rob Smith's (RPS) reply to the
Team3S list... =
First, the Q, and Jack T's Answer:
F
-
------------------
Q:>>> What are the thermal/physical
characteristics of KEVLAR vs.
CERAMIC clutches? ...technical details;
wear, high-temp stability,
glazing, holding power that each has over the
other...?
=20
A:>>> Kevlar stands up to heat well,
supposedly better than
standard organic clutch material. I think Kevlar
has
a lower coefficient of friction than standard organics,
so can slip
more with same pressure plate loading.
I have used Kevlar clutch disc with
same pressure
plate on my 79 TA (10 second 3500 lb car with
slicks) and
found the Kevlar version slipped, so had
to go back to regular organic
disc.
=20
Ceramic puck clutches have very high heat capability,
high
holding power, but have very harsh engagement
characteristics; they usually
won't slip on a normal
street takeoff, but tend to grab/judder, so hard to
take
off gracefully. The on-off nature of ceramic type
clutch makes
it have a high instant shock load which
imparts more stress to the driveline
(transmission,
transfer case etc.) so could break parts more than
an
organic or Kevlar unit which will smoothly slip while
building up
torque transfer until lockup.
=20
RPS is hoping to utilize carbon fiber,
which has very
high heat stability, and "adjustable" friction
coefficients,
to build a clutch that allows higher holding power
while
still slipping smoothly like a regular organic--thus
their
"Carbon Claw" series, still in somewhat experimental
phase
on learning curve. The first RPS carbon clutches
for our cars slipped
for some people (not me) due to defect; they
replaced disc for free--the
replacement I got has carbon
on one side, organic with metal weave on the
other;
I haven't yet had chance to try it.
=20
At least RPS is doing
some
research into a better solution for us than saying "get
the
ceramic puck trans/xfer case destroyer, tough luck buddy",
but
the cost of this is some people having remove/replace
costs for RPS...some
have even gotten paid for R&R
though. I doubt most other companies
would do that!
When I ran a Centerforce (with only mild mods) and
it
slipped within 5000 mostly winter miles, Centerforce Co
told me to take
a hike, no replacement or restitution at all...
=20
I'd prefer an organic,
unless a strong enough holding
clutch was not available, then puck/ceramic is
go-to
choice.
=20
There is supposedly an O S Giken clutch out of
Japan
that uses multiple discs (2 or 3?) with plates, like many
circle
track designs, to increase torque capacity. I
think it may wear more
quickly (more surfaces being
worn away, a 7.5" triple disc on my TA wore
super
fast but that is an extreme example) and it costs ?$2000 or more?
I
have wondered if it were actually manufactured by Tilton
or another USA
manufacturer, but never searched out
the info... ---Jack
Tertadian
=20
RPS Comments:>>> As far as we can tell there
are only a very few =
manufacturing plants in the world that make clutch
friction material. =
There are 2 main manufacturers of Ceramic pucks, and 2
manufacturers of =
Kevlar pucks and facings. All of the rest of the
manufacturers in the =
world produce organic materials; some with asbestos
and most without. =
RPS is the only clutch company producing a carbon fiber
friction =
material. We do not produce carbon carbon like that used in
Formula One. =
Carbon carbon is very different from carbon fiber, and
many times more =
expensive. Our friction material has 12 different
ingredients. The =
advantage we have over any other clutch company (i.e.
Centerforce, Hays, =
Ram, ACT, ClutchMasters, etc.) is since we actually
manufacture the =
material ourselves we can change its characteristics at
will. That is =
alot easier said than done, I can tell you, but at least we
can make =
changes. We can also mold the material into any shape. A new
product =
line we are looking into is Carbonite (our brand name for the
carbon =
fiber material) pucks. This will allow use the flexibility to
=
manufacture 3,4, and 6 puck discs in any size and with any
spline.=20
Carbonite is very stable at high temperatures and has a very
high =
coefficient of friction. The newest version of carbonite also
shows =
very good wear characteristics. One of the main advantages is its
light =
weight. Carbonite is lighter than factory materials and significantly
=
lighter than both kevlar and ceramics. This is important because the
=
transmission's synchros are designed to slow down and speed up the main
=
input shaft when there is an up-shift and a down-shift. The synchros
=
were designed with the weight of the stock disc in mind. Any heavier
=
material will add undue wear and tear on the synchros. So just imagine
=
how happy the synchros are when the disc is lighter than stock!
---Rob =
Smith, RPS
=20
=20
=20
=20
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HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1
=
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3
=
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML
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</HEAD>
<BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>This is going into the FAQ in a few days,
but it's a recent thread =
so I=20
thought I'd forward Rob Smith's (RPS)
reply to the Team3S list... =
First,=20
the Q, and Jack T's
Answer:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>F</DIV>
<DIV>------------------</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3>Q:>>> What are the
thermal/physical=20
characteristics of KEVLAR vs.<BR>CERAMIC
clutches? ...technical =
details;=20
wear, high-temp
stability,<BR>glazing, holding power that each has over
=
the=20
other...?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3>A:>>> Kevlar stands up to heat well,
=
supposedly=20
better than<BR>standard organic clutch
material. I think Kevlar =
has<BR>a=20
lower coefficient
of friction than standard organics,<BR>so can slip =
more
with=20
same pressure plate loading.<BR>I have used Kevlar clutch disc
with same =
pressure<BR>plate on my 79 TA (10 second 3500 lb car
with<BR>slicks) and =
found=20
the Kevlar version slipped, so
had<BR>to go back to regular
organic=20
disc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3>Ceramic puck clutches have very high heat
=
capability,<BR>high=20
holding power, but have very harsh
engagement<BR>characteristics; they =
usually=20
won't slip on a
normal<BR>street takeoff, but tend to grab/judder, so =
hard
to=20
take<BR>off gracefully. The on-off nature of ceramic
=
type<BR>clutch makes=20
it have a high instant shock load
which<BR>imparts more stress to the
=
driveline=20
(transmission,<BR>transfer case etc.) so could break
parts more than=20
an<BR>organic or Kevlar unit which will smoothly
slip while<BR>building =
up=20
torque transfer until
lockup.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3>RPS is hoping to utilize carbon fiber, which has
=
very<BR>high=20
heat stability, and "adjustable"
friction coefficients,<BR>to =
build a=20
clutch that allows higher
holding power while<BR>still slipping smoothly =
like a=20
regular
organic--thus their<BR>"Carbon Claw" series, still in
=
somewhat=20
experimental<BR>phase on learning curve. The
first RPS carbon=20
clutches<BR>for our cars slipped for some people
(not me) due to defect; =
they<BR>replaced disc for free--the
replacement I got has carbon<BR>on =
one side,=20
organic with metal
weave on the other;<BR>I haven't yet had chance to
=
try=20
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3>At least RPS is doing some<BR>research into a better
=
solution=20
for us than saying "get the<BR>ceramic puck
trans/xfer case =
destroyer,=20
tough luck buddy",<BR>but
the cost of this is some people having=20
remove/replace<BR>costs for
RPS...some have even gotten paid
for=20
R&R<BR>though. I doubt most other companies
would do =
that!<BR>When I=20
ran a Centerforce (with only mild
mods) and it<BR>slipped within 5000 =
mostly=20
winter miles,
Centerforce Co<BR>told me to take a hike, no replacement
=
or=20
restitution at
all...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3>I'd prefer an organic, unless a strong
enough=20
holding<BR>clutch was not available, then puck/ceramic
is=20
go-to<BR>choice.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3>There is supposedly an O S Giken clutch out of
=
Japan<BR>that=20
uses multiple discs (2 or 3?) with plates, like
many<BR>circle track =
designs, to=20
increase torque
capacity. I<BR>think it may wear more quickly
=
(more=20
surfaces being<BR>worn away, a 7.5" triple disc
on my TA wore =
super<BR>fast=20
but that is an extreme example) and
it costs ?$2000 or more?<BR>I have =
wondered=20
if it were actually
manufactured by Tilton<BR>or another USA =
manufacturer,
but=20
never searched out<BR>the info... ---Jack
Tertadian</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3>RPS Comments:>>> As far as we can
=
tell there=20
are only a very few manufacturing plants in the world that
make clutch =
friction=20
material. There are 2 main manufacturers of
Ceramic pucks, and 2 =
manufacturers=20
of Kevlar pucks and facings. All
of the rest of the manufacturers in the =
world=20
produce organic
materials; some with asbestos and most without. RPS is =
the
only=20
clutch company producing a carbon fiber friction material. We do not
=
produce=20
carbon carbon like that used in Formula One. Carbon carbon is
very =
different=20
from carbon fiber, and many times more
expensive. Our friction =
material=20
has 12 different ingredients. The
advantage we have over any other =
clutch=20
company (i.e. Centerforce,
Hays, Ram, ACT, ClutchMasters, etc.) is since =
we=20
actually manufacture
the material ourselves we can change its =
characteristics at=20
will.
That is alot easier said than done, I can tell you, but at least =
we
can=20
make changes. We can also mold the material into any shape. A new
=
product line=20
we are looking into is Carbonite (our brand name for the
carbon fiber =
material)=20
pucks. This will allow use the flexibility to
manufacture 3,4, and 6 =
puck discs=20
in any size and with any spline.
<BR><BR>Carbonite is very stable at =
high=20
temperatures and
has a very high coefficient of friction. The =
newest=20
version
of carbonite also shows very good wear characteristics. One of =
the
main=20
advantages is its light weight. Carbonite is lighter than factory
=
materials and=20
significantly lighter than both kevlar and ceramics.
This is important =
because=20
the transmission's synchros are designed to
slow down and speed up the =
main=20
input shaft when there is an up-shift
and a down-shift. The synchros =
were=20
designed with the weight of the
stock disc in mind. Any heavier material =
will=20
add undue wear and tear
on the synchros. So just imagine how happy the =
synchros=20
are when the
disc is lighter than stock! ---Rob
Smith,=20
RPS</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=3D""
size=3D3><BR></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date:
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:53:39 -0800
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Will different wheel offset change handling?
Changing the
'track' (width between centerline of tires) will affect handling.
If you
widen front track, you will gain more oversteer.
If you widen rear traci, you
will gain more understeer.
VERY small changes in track can make large
differences. I gained a HUGE amount
of control by widening my front
track for SCCA purposes.
Mind you, if you widen track using spacers, you
MUST MUST MUST get longer
wheel-studs.
:-----Original
Message-----
:From: Klusmanp@aol.com [
mailto:Klusmanp@aol.com]
:Sent: Wednesday,
December 15, 1999 7:29 PM
:To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com:Subject:
Team3S: Will different wheel offset change handling?
:
:
:Several of
the aftermarket rims I'm looking at have an offset
:that puts the
:wheel
further outboard than stock. (for clearance on the brake
:calipers) In
:one case the rim offset puts the tire centerline (i.e. contact
:patch)
about
:1/2" outboard of stock (OZ Italy Competition).
:
:Anybody
experience changes in handling from something like this?
:
:In particluar,
I would think that the amount of feedback into
:the steering
:wheel
would increase as you move the wheels outboard. The tire
:contact patch
:is further away from the steering pivot point and has greater
:leverage
for
:applying force back into the steering mechanism.
:
:Anybody know
what the distance is from tire centerline to
:steering pivot
:point?
:
:If the distance is 10" then 1/2" isn't that big
of a change.
:If the distance
:is 2" then 1/2" is more
significant.
:
:Thanks!
:Paul Klusman
:For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
:http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
:
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:53:52 -0600
From: "Chris Chiasson" <
cender@email.msn.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Tires for raising top speeds...
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I am buying two new G-force tires for my 1991 RT/TT, but
I had an idea =
for people with 2nd gens and the money for all new
tires...
By decreasing the overall diameter of the wheel/tire, one
effectively =
raises the gear ratios. In the (low?) 6th gear on the 2nd gen,
our =
engines/transmission aren't maxxed out are they?=20
I know the
force of the wind fully counters the force of the car, that =
is why it is at
top speed, but I mean that the engine isn't redlined and =
the transmission
can still accept the 6th gear spinning faster. This is =
why modded (higher
HP) 3/Ss can reach higher speeds. If the gearing was =
made so 6th would
redline the engine at top speed, the car wouldn't be =
able to reach a higher
top speed unless the rev limiter were increased. =
Am I correct so
far?
Anyway, if the gearing ratio were increased by changing the outer
=
diameter of the wheel/tire combo ... say to 18" w/ 35 aspect ... the
car =
should be able to go faster b/c the engine will have higher gearing
=
multiplication, and still be able to rev high enough to keep up with the
=
speed. Is there some kind of problem with the 3/S 2nd gen that would
=
foil this thinking?=20
Will the stock engine with a smaller
wheel/tire diameter hit the rev =
limiter before it exceedes the previous top
speed (of normal wheel/tire =
diameter)?
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I am buying two new
G-force tires for my 1991 RT/TT, =
but I had=20
an idea for people with
2nd gens and the money for all new
=
tires...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2>By decreasing the overall diameter of the
=
wheel/tire, one=20
effectively raises the gear ratios.
In the (low?) 6th gear on =
the 2nd=20
gen, our
engines/transmission aren't maxxed out are
they?=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2>I know the force of the wind fully counters the =
force of
the=20
car, that is why it is at top speed, but I mean that the engine isn't
=
redlined=20
and the transmission can still accept the 6th gear spinning
faster. This =
is=20
why modded (higher HP) 3/Ss can reach higher
speeds. If the gearing =
was=20
made so 6th would redline the engine at
top speed, the car wouldn't be =
able to=20
reach a higher top speed
unless the rev limiter were increased. Am I =
correct
so=20
far?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2>Anyway, if the gearing ratio were increased by =
changing
the=20
outer diameter of the wheel/tire combo ... say to 18" w/ 35
aspect ... =
the car=20
should be able to go faster b/c the engine will
have higher gearing=20
multiplication, and still be able to rev high enough
to keep up with the =
speed.=20
Is there some kind of problem with the 3/S
2nd gen that would foil this=20
thinking?
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2>Will the stock engine with a smaller wheel/tire =
diameter
hit=20
the rev limiter before it exceedes the previous top speed (of normal
=
wheel/tire=20
diameter)?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF4768.6781E480--
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Date:
Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:14:19 -0600
From: Matt Jannusch <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Tires for raising top speeds...
> Anyway, if the gearing ratio
were increased by changing the outer
> diameter of the wheel/tire combo
... say to 18" w/ 35 aspect ...
> the car should be able to go faster
b/c the engine will have higher
> gearing multiplication, and still be
able to rev high enough to
> keep up with the speed. Is there some kind of
problem with the 3/S
> 2nd gen that would foil this thinking?
The
only thing that would foil the thinking is that you reduced the aspect ratio to
35. You would want to increase tire radius by preserving (or raising) the
aspect ratio to 45+. If you go 18/35 with the same stock width, you didn't
increase the radius of the tire. To increase the effective gearing for top
speed, you would want to go with something like 245/45-18, or if you are
sticking with 17" wheels, you would go for 245/55-17 or 245/50-17.
All depends on what your top speed goal would be.
> Will the stock
engine with a smaller wheel/tire diameter hit the
> rev limiter before it
exceedes the previous top speed (of normal
> wheel/tire
diameter)?
If you reduce the radius of the tires, then you have reduced
the speed per RPM in a particular gear, yes. Keep in mind that we are
looking at the radius of the tire itself, not the diameter of the
wheel.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
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