--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #350
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest        Saturday, December 4 1999        Volume 01 : Number 350




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 18:05:27 -0500
From: Michael Booker <mrbook@gate.net>
Subject: Team3S: Suggestion and question.

Today I had my ATR high flow cat put in, and it does make a difference.
My stock cat was a bit clogged, but not too badly, and the new high flow
cat is noticeable. I suggest that all 1st get car owners have their
converters checked for possible meltdown of the matrix inside, and
possibly upgrade it to a high flow unit.
Will the EGR give a "check engine" light if it's disconnected? I don't
have any emissions to worry about, and i'm considering disconnecting it
tomorrow, and would like to know if this will throw the ECU off.

Thanks
Matt
3/Si #311
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:32:22 -0600
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Suggestion and question.

> Today I had my ATR high flow cat put in, and it does make a
> difference.
> My stock cat was a bit clogged, but not too badly, and the
> new high flow
> cat is noticeable. I suggest that all 1st get car owners have their
> converters checked for possible meltdown of the matrix inside, and
> possibly upgrade it to a high flow unit.
> Will the EGR give a "check engine" light if it's disconnected? I don't
> have any emissions to worry about, and i'm considering
> disconnecting it
> tomorrow, and would like to know if this will throw the ECU off.

If the rear cat is bad, the front ones are probably in similar or worse shape as well...

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:28:30 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Suggestion and question (EGR)

> Will the EGR give a "check engine" light if it's disconnected? I don't
> have any emissions to worry about, and i'm considering disconnecting it
> tomorrow, and would like to know if this will throw the ECU off.

A better way is to block EGR off at the O2 sensor housing or at the intake
plenum. For this, simply use a thin stainless steel that you can cut with
the shape of the gasket. On my 93' I had no problems but I openend it again
for the very cold winter times (to heat up the intake)

Roger
93'3000GT TT


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:38:27 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water Injection (semi-long)

Yes, Todd and the others are very right about the DSMs and it also works
close to our cars. But our programs are slightly different and control the
BS a little different. The BS is only used for a quicker spool up and closes
above 3500 or so. Even without knock at 4500 the BS was already closed and I
think this behaviour is different to the DSMs due to the twinturbo setup
with the smaller wheels.

I'm currently altering one of the programs I have for the G-Force ECU. The
activation of the BS is totally disabled here and I just wish to know how to
give the knock signal to the BS port. But even G-Force has no idea how to do
it ... but how did they knew how to disable it ???

Roger
93'3000GT TT

> Well, not entirely true.  The ECU sends signals to the BS in other
> situations other than just airflow.  Read:
> http://www.dsm.org/archives/1999/06/19990628.txt/30.html and the links on
> that page, if you really want to learn the nuts and the bolts of our ECU
to
> BS situation.

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------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 99 16:25:27 PST
From: Gil Lee <gil_lee@usa.net>
Subject: Team3S: SRS light, rear hatch, 1st>2nd gear grinding

I recently swapped batteries outta my 92 3KGTVR4 and now the SRS light is on
and will not go away.  The factory manual states that if you turn the ignition
on/off 10 times, it should clear it.  That worked in the past, but not this
time.  Does anyone have any ideas?

Also thanks for the earlier advice about the rattling noise from the back.  I
think it's the rear struts for the rear hatch, anyone know where I can get
replacements?

And one more thing, pre93 3KGT seem to be notorious for funny transmissions.
I had mine replaced once already because it would not shift easily from 1st to
2nd.  Now, the problem seems to be coming back, in fact if you're in high RPM
in 1st gear and shift to 2nd, you will often feel some resistance and hear
some grinding noises.  You have to let go and shift again at a lower speed to
engage.  I just hope it's not shredding the gears.

Anyone will similar experiences?

____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:57:10 -0800
From: Luis Interiano <Interian@oeaa.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Bay Area Stealth/3KGT

Gentlemen, I just got off the phone with my mechanic in Woodland, CA (I have
120,000 miles on my NA 3KGT) and he quoted the following:
All belts (including Timing) and Water pump $632.34, parts & labor
Crank and Cam Seals $88.00 (recommended since you are already in there),
parts& labor
spark plugs $60.00 labor only.  -maybe these can be obtained from the club
sources.

Hope this helps

Luis

- -----Original Message-----
From: joseph dorsey [mailto:ja_dorsey@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 11:43 AM
To: 3SI (E-mail)
Subject: Team3S: Bay Area Stealth/3KGT


List,

First off, this list provides great info. echange.

I just spent @ $1,100 in parts and labor for
replacing:
Timing Belt/Water Pump, Drive Belts, and Spark Plugs.
Labor ran $600 (Mitsu Dealership.)  Do any of you Bay
Area residents know of any good, experienced,
independent "less expensive" Dodge/Mitsu mechanics in
our area?  Any referrals would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
jdorsey '91 stealth r/t twin


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:11:02 -0600
From: "Keith Redburn" <bigdaddy@tisd.net>
Subject: Team3S: VR4 Spyder wind noise

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I have a 95VR4 Spyder that has tremendous amount of wind noise relating =
to the roof
that is really noticable at speeds above 50mph. It appears to come from =
the mating point of the operable side window and fixed rear quarter =
window!!  Any Ideas?

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have a 95VR4 Spyder that has tremendous amount of =
wind noise=20
relating to the roof</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>that is really noticable at speeds above 50mph. It =
appears to=20
come from the mating point of the operable side window and fixed rear =
quarter=20
window!!&nbsp; Any Ideas?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_00D5_01BF3DC2.243A1800--

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 19:07:36 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Yes, Eibachs work

There was a question on the list recently, asking which springs are best
for an autocross car.

I can vouch for the Ground Control adjustable suspension with Eibach
coil-over springs.

As some of you may remember, back in September I went with a bunch of ROWGs
(rich old white guys) to the Marshalltown, Iowa go-kart track to run some
hot laps, and got soundly beaten by a twin turbo AWD Porsche, driven by a
ROWG, and a 348 Ferrari, driven by an ex pro racer. My time was 42.1 sec,
behind the Porsche at 41.8 and the Ferrari at 41.7. It was a nice warm day,
with a dry track. I was running my stock VR4 with Yoko 032R race tires. 

The track is 0.7 miles with 10 turns, run in 2nd gear. A 42 second lap is a
55 mph average speed. Lots of clubs use the track for autocrosses, so this
was a good test for the Eibachs under autocrossing conditions.

Today, my son and I went back to the speedway, all by ourselves. It was
cold and the track was damp, with some puddles -- one in particular in a
braking zone. I ran the car exactly the same as in September: race tires
and stock brakes, but with the Ground Control kit and Eibachs installed.
Today, my best time was 41.53, so it looks like the Eibachs are good for a
half-second a lap under less than wonderful conditions.  In an autocross, a
half-second is an eternity, and often the difference between 1st and 10th.

We only had an hour or so before it got dark, so I did not have a chance to
experiment with tire pressures. I suspect there may be some more benefit to
be had through suitable adjustments.

It also means a certain 348 Ferrari and a certain twin turbo Porsche are
going to be very surprised next spring, when all the ROWGs go out to play
again and a little black VR4 puts them all away.

Boost controller next!

Rich/old poop/94 VR4/handles like a big go kart!.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 17:36:35 -0800
From: Fred Hamilton <fred@yonkitime.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: VR4 Spyder wind noise

> Keith Redburn wrote:
> I have a 95VR4 Spyder that has tremendous amount of wind noise
> relating to the roof
> that is really noticable at speeds above 50mph. It appears to come
> from the mating point of the operable side window and fixed rear
> quarter window!!  Any Ideas?

I've got the same car with the same problem.  From what I've heard it's
a design flaw.  When the roof is retracted, the rubber seals on the
quarter windows are pressed up against something in the trunk and they
eventually (pretty quickly, actually) get permanently bent until they
don't seal very well and you get your wind noise.

A few months ago, right before my 3 year warranty ran out (it's a 95 but
wasn't sold until August 96 for some reason!), I had my dealer replace
both seals.  The car got a lot quieter, but still not as quiet as I
think it could and should have been.

Has anyone found any solutions they're happy with?  I positively HATE my
dealer, and since it's out of warranty I don't want to pay them to have
them do a crappy job.  So I'm thinking about finding a local automotive
glass shop that can work with me on making it seal better and/or
replacing the seals.

- -Fred
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:58:15 CST
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water Injection (not-so-long)

Hey Roger,

I have a feeling our ECU to BCS signals are very similar to the 2G DSM. 
John's LED that is intercepting the ECU signal behaves EXACTLY the same as
the 2G DSM LED.  Same blinking light in roughly the same RPM range and it
goes solid when the timing get retarded.

I'd trust Todd Day and what I've personally seen over what G-force tells us.
  I wonder if G-force can even spell "3000GT."  hehe.  :)

later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org



>From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
>To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject: Re: Team3S: Water Injection (semi-long)
>Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:38:27 +0100
>
>Yes, Todd and the others are very right about the DSMs and it also works
>close to our cars. But our programs are slightly different and control the
>BS a little different. The BS is only used for a quicker spool up and
>closes
>above 3500 or so. Even without knock at 4500 the BS was already closed and
>I
>think this behaviour is different to the DSMs due to the twinturbo setup
>with the smaller wheels.
>
>I'm currently altering one of the programs I have for the G-Force ECU. The
>activation of the BS is totally disabled here and I just wish to know how
>to
>give the knock signal to the BS port. But even G-Force has no idea how to
>do
>it ... but how did they knew how to disable it ???
>
>Roger
>93'3000GT TT
>
> > Well, not entirely true.  The ECU sends signals to the BS in other
> > situations other than just airflow.  Read:
> > http://www.dsm.org/archives/1999/06/19990628.txt/30.html and the links
>on
> > that page, if you really want to learn the nuts and the bolts of our ECU
>to
> > BS situation.
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:56:11 +1300
From: "B Collett" <hcollett@ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Team3S: VPC and GCC

I have just scored, VERY CHEAP a VPC and GCC, I have seen alot of people
using them on there cars and would like any information on the setup and
using them.

Thanks

Henry 3000 GT VR4
15'G's
550cc Injectors
HKS EVC 4


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 03:07:44 -0600
From: "Vineet Singh" <billi_gates@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: knock led Mod

I too would like to know how to hook up a "knock led" to a 91-93 car.
However you MUST keep in mind, that if this knock led is installed and works
the same way as the DSM one does, it does NOT necessarily mean that you have
"KNOCK".

You might have "0" knock sum (the ECU doesn't really respond to "spikes" or
erratic minor knock frequencies, there is a filter, and a program/circuit to
detect knock at certain times of combustion. It does count knock as a "SUM"
created by the programming). When this "SUM" hits over 12-15 counts (out of
a possible 43), the ECU retards timing, and dumps fuel (bad gas
mileage/slower car).

If the "knock" led is lighting up, it could simply mean that you are flowing
more air than your ECU expects (not necessarily "bad" for your engine if you
have the associated fuel mods), and the precursor to the dreaded "fuel cut"
stage is actually the factory Boost Control Solenoid (BCS) to pulse (led
flickers) or shut completely (led stays on all the time). The BCS is there
to limit boost to about 6-7psi (as if the turbo wastegates were directly
connected to the pressure source)

The only real way to know is any one or better, a combination of these
things,

1: Air Fuel (A/F) gauge (reads off your o2 sensors)
2: Exhaust Gas Temp (EGT) gauge
3: TMO Datalogger (www.tmo.com) (91-93 3/S only)
4: A Vulcan Mind Meld with the ECU (read above :)

Vineet Singh
Manuals On CD - http://manualcd.dsm.org
Club DSM A/T - http://at.dsm.org  -  "Never Lift To Shift!"

Partial Original message:-------------------------------------------------
Actually the first knock LED that was in John's car did detect knock and not
ECU signals to the boost solinoid.  It was connected directly to the knock
sensor.  (Hence the reason for the knock sensor to eventually get fried)

But your right.  The LED that the DSM guys have been using will only tell
you when timing retard and possible detonation is occuring.  You don't want
that LED to light up very often, unless you like rebuilds. ;)

later,
Curt
- -------------------------------------------------

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 08:41:31 EST
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: SRS light, rear hatch, 1st>2nd gear grinding

In a message dated 12/3/99 7:27:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, gil_lee@usa.net
writes:

<< I recently swapped batteries outta my 92 3KGTVR4 and now the SRS light is
on
and will not go away.  The factory manual states that if you turn the
ignition
on/off 10 times, it should clear it.  That worked in the past, but not this
time.  Does anyone have any ideas?
>>

    I had this same problem when my battery slowly discharged.  If your
battery slowly discharged and reached voltage below 8 volts (I think that's
the magic number) a "permanent" fault code is set in the SRS Control Computer
which requires resetting by the dealership.  My dealer charged me $60 to turn
the darn thing off.  I wrote to Chrysler and told them I didn't think I
should have to pay that because it is a "glitch" in their computer design. 
They agreed, said it was a safety issue, and refunded my money without
question.

Joe 91 TT
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 12:18:19 -0500
From: Rick Diogo <rick@ceo-consulting.com>
Subject: Team3S: 550cc Injectors

I am going to install a set of denso 550cc injectors I just purchased.
They are brand new in their packages. The only thing they did not come with
is the o-ring that fits into the intake manifold....

Anyhow, I went down to Mitsu and bought the 6 o-rings and am planning to
install the injectors today. My question is this:

Do I need to send my ECU back to G-force to have it re-programmed now that
I am installing the 550's?  At the time I sent my ECU to them I had the
stock pump and injectors.....

Also, how much is involved in installing the Cosmo fuel pump.  Is it a
direct replacement unit?  How do I go about pulling the old one out?  On
the Talons I remember I had to pull up the rear seat.  Are the 3000's the
same way?

I would like to get this stuff done today (Saturday) so if anyone is out
there that can answer these questions I would greatly appreciate it!

Rick
94 Stealth TT (Pearl Yellow)
13G's
Cartech intercoolers
AMS hard pipe kit
K&N FIPK
ATR downpipes
HKS exhaust, no cat, no front pre-cat, rear pre-cat hollow
Greddy Profec B boost controller
Apexi AFC
SPI boost gauge (yellow)
Cyberdyne AF gauge
G-Force ECU upgrade
- ---------------------------------------------------

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:44:02 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 550cc Injectors

The ECU will have to be reprogrammed especially if you do not have some
other means of fuel control.  550s with the stock program will run very rich
and in some cases too rich to be drivable.  The AFC should be enough to get
it running and may even be enough to get decent performance.  I would
probably opt for the a new program though and use the AFC for tweaking.  I
have an AFC in addition to the MASC.  It was enough to keep the car running
reasonably well but not enough to squeeze out optimal performance.

The Cosmo pump is a direct drop in replacement.  You won't have to remove
the rear seat but you will have to be careful with the main fuel line.  It
is a rather silly design.

Almost everything is accessible by removing the trunk deck.  You'll have to
detach the hose from beneath the car first, then remove the line from the
fuel pump accessible in the rear hatch area.  You may have to jack the car
up to gain enough access to the line beneath the car.  It is in the rear
passenger-side wheel well area.  Be careful with the fittings as they are
likely seized and the metal is rather soft.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
> I am going to install a set of denso 550cc injectors I just purchased.
> They are brand new in their packages. The only thing they did not
> come with
> is the o-ring that fits into the intake manifold....
>
> Anyhow, I went down to Mitsu and bought the 6 o-rings and am planning to
> install the injectors today. My question is this:
>
> Do I need to send my ECU back to G-force to have it re-programmed now that
> I am installing the 550's?  At the time I sent my ECU to them I had the
> stock pump and injectors.....
>
> Also, how much is involved in installing the Cosmo fuel pump.  Is it a
> direct replacement unit?  How do I go about pulling the old one out?  On
> the Talons I remember I had to pull up the rear seat.  Are the 3000's the
> same way?
>
> I would like to get this stuff done today (Saturday) so if anyone is out
> there that can answer these questions I would greatly appreciate it!
>
> Rick
> 94 Stealth TT (Pearl Yellow)
> 13G's
> Cartech intercoolers
> AMS hard pipe kit
> K&N FIPK
> ATR downpipes
> HKS exhaust, no cat, no front pre-cat, rear pre-cat hollow
> Greddy Profec B boost controller
> Apexi AFC
> SPI boost gauge (yellow)
> Cyberdyne AF gauge
> G-Force ECU upgrade

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 13:42:22 -0500
From: Michael Booker <mrbook@gate.net>
Subject: Team3S: EGR on a NA engine.

Has anybody with an NA DOHC disconnected the EGR? I'm looking in the
manual and under the hood, but I can't find the part. Also, there is a
small, black hose that is connected right before the TB and also
somewhere under the plenum. Is that it? If not, does anybody know what
that is? Thanks

Matt
Hell-bent on disconnecting the EGR!
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:45:34 EST
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Off Topic:  Indra's new shop and # (Please Update your Address Book)

Hello fellow 3Si members,

     I know I've been out of the loop lately due to personal circumstances;
but I thought I should post this update for us all re: one of our vendors
that I originally introduced to our community, Indra Mahesa - formerly at
Apex R Motorsport.  Indra is NO LONGER at Apex R Motorsport due to an
issue/conflict among the owners; I believe that the shop is bad mouthing
Indra and trying to give him a bad/shady name; So if any of you need to
contact Indra directly re: any future orders or clarification of issues;
please feel free to call him at his new phone # :

602-690-3767
MAX REV motorsport; ask for Indra.

Remember: 
PLEASE DO NOT order from Apex R Motorsport or from their website
(ApexVR4.com);  In my opinion, I believe Indra should delete that website
since he worked so hard to design it and get it started in the first place.  
He dedicated 1 1/2 years to Apex R Motorsport and they decided to SHAFT him;
So let's not even bother calling them because all they'll try to do is make
Indra look bad. Totally uncalled for!!!  So I would appreciate for all of us
to continue to support Indra and his services at Max Rev Motorsport.  For
those of you who have ordered from Indra before; you KNOW he will continue to
provide us with the best prices and tech support/advice!

    I hope this message has clarified any concerns/rumors/issues re: Indra's
status.
No, I do not work for Indra!!  I'm just a satisfied customer willing to share
with all of us 3Si members!!!

Regards,

Ahmed "AL-Crazy"   -  
'92 VR4  -  Still NO BOOST!!!!  :-(     But not for long!!!!  I will update
you all soon.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:33:44 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 550cc Injectors

> Do I need to send my ECU back to G-force to have it re-programmed now that
> I am installing the 550's?  At the time I sent my ECU to them I had the
> stock pump and injectors.....

Barry said it all and this are onyl my $0.02 addons :
The ECU program for a stock setup from G-Force are often a little leaner in
the lower and richer in the higher load band. Also they do lock in only one
fuel map. In your case you can adapt for the rpm with the AFC and it may
work. The negative thing is that it is rpm related and load is different in
the gears and also differs if you go up a hill or just driving on a normal
road.

Normally you may have to tell G-Force what mods you have (the pump doesn't
change anything for the program), they send you a new set of EPROMs and rip
you off $150 (this is just crazy for altering a table)

In my case, I use the G-Force for the higher limiter and changed timing and
let the ARC fuel controller do the job for the fuel side. I also used the
AFC for a little fine tuning but found it obsolute with the ARC.

> Also, how much is involved in installing the Cosmo fuel pump.

On my car the problem was that everything was seized and rusty. nothing
moved and the fuel line comming out of the assembly is very sensible and can
easily be bent (very bad !) I firstly tried and got into the danger of
braking something so I finally let my dealer doing the job and they only
charged my about $70 for doing it. No headaches for me, please !

Roger
93'3000GT TT

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:48:49 +0200
From: "Oleg-Telia" <Oleg@telia.lv>
Subject: Team3S: question about AFC

Just installed new AFC fuel controller (with new display). The thing I am
wondering about, is that parameter "airflow" is not changing, it is always
shown as 0%. All other parameters are OK. Is it normal or something is
wrong?
I installed the fuel controller for fuel system future upgrades, now I don't
use it - just want to be sure that it is installed properly.

Olegs,
www.3000gt.lv

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:27:49 -0800
From: Nick Xiong <nxiong@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Off Topic:  Indra's new shop and # (Please Update your Address Book)

I've been out of the loop even longer...  why shouldn't we order from
Apex?  cause I've had excellent dealings w/Apex..


On Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:45:34 EST TurboDrvn@aol.com writes:
> Hello fellow 3Si members,
>
>      I know I've been out of the loop lately due to personal
> circumstances; > but I thought I should post this update for us all re:
one of our
> vendors > that I originally introduced to our community, Indra Mahesa -

> formerly at > Apex R Motorsport.  Indra is NO LONGER at Apex R
Motorsport due to
> an > issue/conflict among the owners; I believe that the shop is bad
> mouthing > Indra and trying to give him a bad/shady name; So if any of
you need
> to > contact Indra directly re: any future orders or clarification of
> issues; > please feel free to call him at his new phone # :
>
> 602-690-3767
> MAX REV motorsport; ask for Indra.
>
> Remember: 
> PLEASE DO NOT order from Apex R Motorsport or from their website
> (ApexVR4.com);  In my opinion, I believe Indra should delete that
> website
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