--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #347
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest       Wednesday, December 1 1999       Volume 01 : Number 347




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 11:36:38 -0500
From: Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.com
Subject: Team3S: re: 2 step fix to all your getrag problems!! secrets from mitsi techs revealed.

>Firstly I would like to say how grateful I am to be a member of this list,
>...

Was this guy serious, or was he just trying to wake us up ?!? I remember
when I was 16 (just barely)!

Jeff.

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 11:40:53 -0500
From: Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.com
Subject: Team3S: re: Will 2nd gen. stock VR4 rims fit 1st gen. VR4?

>I've found someone wanting to sell a set of polished '94 stock VR4 rims.
Will
>these fit my '91 VR4? I believe the 2nd gen rims have a little more room
>inside for the larger 2nd gen. brake calipers - no problem, but I'm
wondering
>if there are any other changes (offset the same?).

I replaced my stock '92 VR4 rims with a set of Chrome VR4 rims that I'm
told were from a '94. They fit just fine with no apparent differences.

Jeff Williamson
Belleville, MI

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:17:57 -0500
From: "J. Stephen Gula" <loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com>
Subject: Team3S: engine taping/ticking

Hey guys,, I'm getting a ncie ticking/tapping noise from my engine and
I haven't a clue what it is.. any suggestions/fixes?

- --Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 11:35:12 -0600
From: "Vineet Singh" <billi_gates@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Bleeder

Bleeders suck (actually they blow, but whos asking :)

You are probably hitting fuel cut (happens when the ECU counts TOO much air
going through it and turns off the injectors for a few seconds). This is due
to boost spiking (when you go from 10psi to 14-15psi). Get a REAL boost
controller, even if it's just a ball and spring type (the only one I would
ever buy, but some like the electronic ones... what a PITA to install and
adjust). The ball/spring type can be had from 50 to 100$. A 100$ one is the
original HALLMANBOOSTCONTROLLERS.COM one.

It COULD also be your plug gaps are too big (stock?). Think about reducing
them by ~.01 every 2 psi of boost you add. I run a .031gap at 14psi all
day... it didn't work right at the stock .039). Also check your plug wires.

Vineet Singh
Manuals On CD - http://manualcd.dsm.org
Club DSM A/T - http://at.dsm.org  -  "Never Lift To Shift!"

ORIGMESSAGE,
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:11:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Wise <diranged@hearme.com>
Subject: Team3S: Ahh! Help! Boost Madness!

I installed a bleeder valve today and i'm having alot of problems! Here's
what i did... I took the vacume line coming off of the top (near the
driver) side of the Y pipe and cut that and stuck the middle barb of the
1156A part on the linegoing to the plastic H looking thing and one of the
other barbs on the one coming from the Y-pipe. Originally when I went out
for a drive the boost hit 1.12 at the same time I hit my rev limiter. When
I pulled over and lowered the boost, I lowered it about 1/2 turn. In 1st
gear, I hit .95 boost, but at around 5500rpm the car acted like the rev
limiter was kicking in, then stoped around 6200 rpm and reved like normal.
____
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 09:34:38 -0800
From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: engine taping/ticking

Hey Steve;

Try the old fix--a reputable oil flush product, followed by installation of
a synthetic oil.  But, since you are a knowledgeable 3S owner,  I suspect
you have already gone this route. Which brings us to more than easy fixes
(i.e. in a small number of failure cases valve train replacement has
occurred ). If you have warranty, have this looked into immediately...but
try the flush first if you have not. I'm certain the clicking solenoid on
the firewall is not unknown to you and you have ruled this out as well.

Best

Darc Steve.
- -----Original Message-----
From: J. Stephen Gula <loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com>
To: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 9:24 AM
Subject: Team3S: engine taping/ticking


>Hey guys,, I'm getting a ncie ticking/tapping noise from my engine and
>I haven't a clue what it is.. any suggestions/fixes?
>
>--Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:06:38 -0600
From: "Vineet Singh" <billi_gates@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: ATF in your INTAKE?  WT F$%^ :)

About the ATF cleaning out your engines carbon deposits, (yes, they are
normal, and YES you can clean some of them out, reducing in some cases, the
amount of "knock" that your ECU will see and therefore increase timing (more
power! arr arr arrr :). It does this for two possible reasons (or both).

1: The carbon in your combustion chamber can be a "hot spot", and actually
pre-ignite the "carefully" calculated air/fuel mixture upon each combustion
stroke. This would have the same consequences as running lean (this is why
you need more fuel by the way of larger injectors, higher fuel pressure,
and/or fuel pumps, if you add more boost (more than 13-14psi IMO)).

2: The same carbon can not only be a hot spot, but also be hitting a valve
or your head lightly if it's accumulated on the piston (usually the exhaust
sides are caked after 50,000 miles with a bit of carbon). This could be
mis-diagnosed as "lifter tick" and also may cause the knock sensor to record
"KNOCK" when there really is none, which causes more fuel to be dumped in,
which in the long run creates MORE carbon deposits. It can also stick to
valves and/or valve seats, causing them not to seal as well as they should,
this lowers efficiency as well.

There have been two "simple" solutions for cleaning most of this out, and
information on the older way can be had here,

http://www.dsm.org/archives/1996/04/19960404.txt/18.html

Michael Ferrara of Turbo Magazine posted that in 96', and most people were
skeptical until they tried it (and it worked!). Be advised, follow the
directions EXACTLY, because if you add too much fluid, you can bend valves
or hydrolock your motor (liquids don't compress, well at least at the
pressures we are talking about :). The same warnings go for the "new and
improved" version below, it does not use "ATF", but an actual MOPAR product
that does the same thing. It's quite cheap, and you can purchase it from
1888TALLMITS (tell them Vineet Singh sent you, and ordered this stuff 2
times, it's called Mopar Combustion Chamber Conditioner, PART#04318001 )

http://www.outreach.psu.edu/users/res122/DSM/

It somewhat details the procedure, I'm sure there is a page I'm missing
here, but it should get you by.

http://www.dsm.org/scripts/htsearch?words=mopar%20and%20combustion%20and%20c
hamber%20&config=archive&method=boolean

Is a list of some more posts about it (if that url doesn't work, go to
http://search.dsm.org/ and search for " Mopar Combustion Chamber "

Good Luck!

PS: Did you know, the reason why a lot of rotary mazda engines fail is
because carbon deposits mess with the "rings" on the ends of the rotor? Most
of the heavily deposited engines were also the ones that never saw use above
3000rpm's and were driven around by little old lady's (or people that drove
like em'). So rev away :)

Vineet Singh
Manuals On CD - http://manualcd.dsm.org
Club DSM A/T - http://at.dsm.org  -  "Never Lift To Shift!"
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:27:36 -0600
From: "Vineet Singh" <billi_gates@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Boost madness / Sport-tour mode.

About your boost control problems, If your exhaust is stuck in "tour" mode,
I would change that FIRST. ALL your exhaust comes out of a (approx) 2.5"
pipe. If it's in TOUR mode, then it goes out at the end just before the
muffler through what looks like a 1.5 - 2" pipe. That's a pretty hefty
restriction.

With that in the way, your stock pre-cats (BIG restrictions IMO, and as
evidenced by my gtech-logs), and the stock cat (not as restrictive, but
still in the way at the track.) You may never reach full boost, as you have
to consider, if you want 14psi from your turbo, you exhaust manifolds
(preturbo) will see about 25-30 psi!, all that exhaust needs to go
SOMEWHERE, and get out of the way fast, otherwise you just have too much
"backpressure".

This may not be your only problem, but it sure would help to get rid of the
restrictions, starting atleast with the silly sport/tour mode valve. (mine
is stuck open btw :)

Vineet Singh
Manuals On CD - http://manualcd.dsm.org
Club DSM A/T - http://at.dsm.org  -  "Never Lift To Shift!"

(PS, please snip the majority of the "reply to: posts" below your messages,
I read the "digest version" of this list, so I have to scroll about a mile
before seeing the next post, and my MS intellimouse wheel is wearing out :)
Thanks!

_____
ORIGINAL MESSAGE
FYI, someone just suggested that it could be an exhaust problem.. This
sounds very plausable considering that i know my exhaust is stuck in tour
mode.. Coudl that be it?

- - --Matt Wise
*NOC Admin*
(650) 429 3751

On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Matt Wise wrote:

> I decided to try swapping the hoses going to the selanoid, and guess what,
> NO CHANGE! Nothign changed... still .38-.40 boost.. So then I disconnected
> the bottom hose from the selanoid (the one w/ the bleeder on it) and guess
> what, instead of getting 1.5bar, I got a max of .5 bar.. definately felt
> like more power, but not the 1+ bar I would expect.. so now I challenge
_____
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:37:43 +0100
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Team3S: Mitsu engines & Getrag trannies (was: 2 step fix BS)

Interesting blurb in the SuperTech magazine from Hot Rod...

Mitsubishi 4G63GT, 6G72BT
- -------------------------
Mitsubishis offer a new perspective on the concept of durability.  As
we've seen in past (and the current) issues, these engines are extremely
capable when it comes to monster power.  Don't believe us?  Well, in the
last two months we've featured one 11- and one 10-second Eclipse, both
using stock Mitsubishi low-ends (4G63GT)!  Sean Glazer of Extreme
Motorsports tells us that 500 hp is not a problem for these engines.
The transmissions, on the other hand, are a slightly different story.
Actually, the trannys are pretty stout, too, but if you rev a 300-plus
hp engine to six grand and drop the clutch, _and_ you've got all four
wheels being driven _and_ wearing sticky tires, something's gonna break!
Unfortunately, some Mitsubishi owners just don't understand this and
decide to blame the "weak" transmissions instead.  Get a clue, people.
Learn how to properly launch an AWD vehicle, and, if you're losing at
the 60-foot mark, make it up with horsepower.
Sean does recommend getting the more durable '93-'94 transmission if
your Diamond Star doesn't already have one.  He also likes the '92-'94
four-bolt rearends for serious racing duty.
As far as the 3000GT/Stealth (6G72BT) goes, read the preceding
paragraphs once more.

- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.vistec.net (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Abex metallic brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:52:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: engine taping/ticking

- ----- Original Message -----
> From: J. Stephen Gula <loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com>
> To: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 10:17 AM
> Subject: Team3S: engine taping/ticking

> Hey guys,, I'm getting a ncie ticking/tapping noise
> from my engine and
> I haven't a clue what it is.. any suggestions/fixes?

> --Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula

Steve,

The ticking/tapping noise my engine developed turned
out to be a "rod knock" (according to both Dodge and
Mitsubishi dealers). I hope this is not the case for
you. I could tell it definitely was not the valve
train but it did increase with engine RPM. It was not
very loud. Just a gentle tap, tap, tap before my bank
account disappeared. The car was 5 years old and had
54.7K miles on the odometer. I had had the car for 2
months and 1000 miles.

Jeff Lucius <StealthMan92@yahoo.com>
red 1992 Stealth R/T TT; 186 CI; completely rebuilt,
race-prepped and balanced engine; 0.050" oversized
forged, no-silicon Venolia pistons; head flow work
and port matching; Magnecor 8.5 mm; RC balanced stock
injectors to 380 cc/min; TEC 15Gs; GT Alley
intercoolers and 2" piping; K&N FIPK; improved
pre-cats; complete ATR exhaust; EVC IV; 2 EGT,
boost, and FP gauges; Centerforce DF clutch;
PowerStop rotors, Metal Matrix pads, SMC brake
lines; Nitto NT-555 P245/45ZR17; TMO Datalogger;
280 HP at wheels using G-Tech Pro at 11.4 psi
boost and 5200 ft elevation.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 11:52:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Wise <diranged@hearme.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ahh! Help! Boost Madness!  (another quick question)

Thank you.. I appreciate the help.. I am going to try that. Will try to
set the boost at about .85 bar.. I still want an incentive to make sure I
go get that electronic controller :)

Could the fact that my boost only hit .5 bar when i disconnected the hoses
be because of my exhaust problem?

- --Matt Wise
*NOC Admin*
(650) 429 3751

On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Matt Jannusch wrote:

> > Really? THe top line goes to the H connector? if so, then where on
> > the H-connecter? which connection?  Where does the Y-line go to
> > the H connector?
>
> If you are really committed to making the bleeder work, then you should eliminate as many other sources of boost control as possible.  The easiest way to do this is to take the line that goes from the "H" connector to the boost control solenoid on the firewall and remove it from the solenoid and plug it into the input of your bleeder valve.  The bleeder should take the place of the stock solenoid and be able to flow more air out of the wastegate hoses since the inlets/outlets should be larger than those on the solenoid.
>
> Leaving the solenoid in the loop will allow double-bleeding to occur and may contibute to additional boost level instability.  Keep a very close eye on the boost gauge, and don't let it go over 1.0 bar!
>
> Apologies for my earlier post expressing my frustration with the question...  Bad day for me at work.  Usually I try to be more helpful  :-)
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 11:53:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Wise <diranged@hearme.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Boost madness -- a VERY WIERD update!

Really? My car has 74k miles and I KNOW the previous owner modded the hell
out of it (15g's, IC's, etc).. You think maybe he used so much race gas
that he clogged them?

- --Matt Wise
*NOC Admin*
(650) 429 3751

On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, R.G. wrote:

> > FYI, someone just suggested that it could be an exhaust problem.. This
> > sounds very plausable considering that i know my exhaust is stuck in tour
> > mode.. Coudl that be it?
>
> No ! Although your pre-cats and main cat may be clogged !
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:04:25 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: removing carbon buildup with ATF???

> There are sensor friendly products specifically designed to help reduce
> carbon buildup.

We used a very acid thing that we connected directly to the fuel rails. We did
this before the compression test to eliminate every compression increasing
carbon build-up and possible cause for the valves not fulyl closing. After that
we removed the heads and the stuff was clean as new :)

> Water injection helps reduce the amount of buildup, but it likely won't help
> after the fact.

Hehe, I can tell you guys, the intake plenum is very clean now !!! No sign of
carbon nor oil deposits anymore :) Water injection definitely cleans the stuff !
But, to be honest, I wouldn't install it just for this purpose, hehe.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:04:28 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ahh! Help! Boost Madness!  (another quick question)

> If you are really committed to making the bleeder work, then you should
> eliminate as many other sources of boost control as possible.

Matt is right that you have to remove the stock solenoid when using aftermarket
boost control but this is not necessary with the bleeder when installed at the
correct place just infront the solenoid. On my car I was able to get the 14 psi
without overboost as the boost was a little quicker built up at the wastegates
than it was bled by the valve. Furthermore, the solenoid is fully closed at the
levels of boost we are running (again calculated by teh ECU) and on my car it
helped a little for spool-up but I never runned into overboost.

But it also highly depends on how good the wastegates act too :)

Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:11:29 -0500
From: "J. Stephen Gula" <loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: engine taping/ticking

> I could tell it definitely was not the valve
> train but it did increase with engine RPM. It was not
> very loud.

Hmm. That's a good idea. I should probably listen to hte engine at a higher RPM to see
if it increases.. but if it does/doesn't what would that mean?


>  The car was 5 years old and had 54.7K miles on the odometer.

Hmm.. 1995 GT w/ 50K miles... hahah this isn't good if your bank account disappeared
:-|

Thanks for hte help everyone. I've scheduled a Bilstein Engine FLush or some crap with
my local Mitsu dealership for this Thursday, I'll let eveyone know how it went. The guy
said they had just had a VR-4 in w/ the same prob and they hadn't heard anything back
(so either it worked or he went elsewhere with his business). So we'll see how it all
turns out. Thanks again for all the advice.

- --Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:20:26 -0800
From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: engine taping/ticking

Steve, et al;

Before taking your car(s) into a dealer to find out  if you need a whole new
car, insure you have explored the simple possibilities suggested here by
other members at our site. I know not all dealers are incompetent or crooks,
but I am certain many major component replacements may not have been
required if one had explored other possibilities first.

Last year I took my Safari van in to get a new seat belt stop button. This
is the button you insert into the belt proper which stops it from retracting
all the way. It had broken off. Because they realized there was warranty on
the vehicle they indicated I'd have to have the whole seat belt unit
replaced under warranty as a safety related item, and advised the button was
not individually available.  They asked I book to set up a appointment. The
total charge back to the manufacturer would be in excess of $165 plus a
small shop charge to me they advised. Instead I drove on over to the next
Chevy dealer and bought  the (not individually  available) button for $1.

I suspect much the same thing occurs, only with  different names (Getrag,
rod knock, valve train failure, etc) when we pull into some dealerships with
our vehicles.  Be aware, is the name of the game, not beware.

Best

Darc

snip
>
>> Hey guys,, I'm getting a nice ticking/tapping noise
>> from my engine and
>> I haven't a clue what it is.. any suggestions/fixes?
>

snip

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:09:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Wise <diranged@hearme.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Boost madness / Sport-tour mode.

Is it possible to have the precats removed and testpipe type things welded
in their place? Will any smog station actually check for that?

- --Matt Wise
*NOC Admin*
(650) 429 3751

On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Vineet Singh wrote:

> About your boost control problems, If your exhaust is stuck in "tour" mode,
> I would change that FIRST. ALL your exhaust comes out of a (approx) 2.5"
> pipe. If it's in TOUR mode, then it goes out at the end just before the
> muffler through what looks like a 1.5 - 2" pipe. That's a pretty hefty
> restriction.
>
> With that in the way, your stock pre-cats (BIG restrictions IMO, and as
> evidenced by my gtech-logs), and the stock cat (not as restrictive, but
> still in the way at the track.) You may never reach full boost, as you have
> to consider, if you want 14psi from your turbo, you exhaust manifolds
> (preturbo) will see about 25-30 psi!, all that exhaust needs to go
> SOMEWHERE, and get out of the way fast, otherwise you just have too much
> "backpressure".
>
> This may not be your only problem, but it sure would help to get rid of the
> restrictions, starting atleast with the silly sport/tour mode valve. (mine
> is stuck open btw :)
>
> Vineet Singh
> Manuals On CD - http://manualcd.dsm.org
> Club DSM A/T - http://at.dsm.org  -  "Never Lift To Shift!"
>
> (PS, please snip the majority of the "reply to: posts" below your messages,
> I read the "digest version" of this list, so I have to scroll about a mile
> before seeing the next post, and my MS intellimouse wheel is wearing out :)
> Thanks!
>
> _____
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE
> FYI, someone just suggested that it could be an exhaust problem.. This
> sounds very plausable considering that i know my exhaust is stuck in tour
> mode.. Coudl that be it?
>
> - --Matt Wise
> *NOC Admin*
> (650) 429 3751
>
> On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Matt Wise wrote:
>
> > I decided to try swapping the hoses going to the selanoid, and guess what,
> > NO CHANGE! Nothign changed... still .38-.40 boost.. So then I disconnected
> > the bottom hose from the selanoid (the one w/ the bleeder on it) and guess
> > what, instead of getting 1.5bar, I got a max of .5 bar.. definately felt
> > like more power, but not the 1+ bar I would expect.. so now I challenge
> _____
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:13:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Wise <diranged@hearme.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ahh! Help! Boost Madness!  (another quick question)

Well I removed the selanoid from the picture.. I just put the bleeder in
place of the selanoid and guess what.. it did the SAME thing that
happened with just disconnecting the selanoid.. .5bar easy.. no higher
than that, even when shifting.. I have a feeling there is some other
restriction going on here.. but I dont know what yet.

- --Matt Wise
*NOC Admin*
(650) 429 3751

On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, R.G. wrote:

> > If you are really committed to making the bleeder work, then you should
> > eliminate as many other sources of boost control as possible.
>
> Matt is right that you have to remove the stock solenoid when using aftermarket
> boost control but this is not necessary with the bleeder when installed at the
> correct place just infront the solenoid. On my car I was able to get the 14 psi
> without overboost as the boost was a little quicker built up at the wastegates
> than it was bled by the valve. Furthermore, the solenoid is fully closed at the
> levels of boost we are running (again calculated by teh ECU) and on my car it
> helped a little for spool-up but I never runned into overboost.
>
> But it also highly depends on how good the wastegates act too :)
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:36:58 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: precats (was: Boost madness / Sport-tour mode.)

Matt...

This has been covered at least once in detail, and should be in the
archives. In summary...the front precat is fairly easy to duplicate, the
rear is very difficult. A number of us talked to a variety of vendors 6-8
months ago, all of them said either:

1. We won't touch it, it's too complicated, or
2. Sure, we can make a prototype, for $500+

There is a DP made (Trust, for $1600) that replaces the front, but not rear
precat. Bottom line...gutting is the solution of choice. Because:

1. It's inexpensive (100% labor and some simple hand tools).
2. It's undetectable if the car is hot and has a functioning main cat. The
DEQ/EPA procedure probably varies from state to state, perhaps even county
to county. In Oregon, they definitely look under the car for any signs of
modification. Even the Trust DP, with a functioning main cat, would
fail...not for emissions, but for being altered. They would also do their
best to find out who should get the $10,000 fine for tampering with an
emissions control device.

Someone posted a step by step instruction months ago, if you can't find it
let me know and I'll dig it up.

Looking forward...Chris

- -----Original Message-----
From: Matt Wise [mailto:diranged@hearme.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 1:10 PM
To: Vineet Singh
Cc: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Re: Boost madness / Sport-tour mode.

Is it possible to have the precats removed and testpipe type things welded
in their place? Will any smog station actually check for that?

- --Matt Wise
*NOC Admin*
(650) 429 3751
<snip>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 01:04:07 +0200
From: "Oleg-Telia" <Oleg@telia.lv>
Subject: Team3S: re: 2 step fix to all your getrag problems!! secrets from mitsi techs revealed.

Honda Civic's are butt ugly...

Oh, don't say that.... The message from this guy was bullshit of course but
Honda Civic is nice car and for its level I can say it's fast!
(Just a simple example: Honda Civic VTEC 1.6 without turbo has 160 hp and
Audi Coupe 1.8 turbo - 150 hp.)
My girlfriend is driving one and she was very disappointed after reading
your message :-)
I can't imagine me racing my girfriend :-)))) it would be really funny,
hahaha
I love driving my VR4, but when she is in dealership service for the next
upgrade, I'm driving my girlfriends car and have fun because no one wants to
race my mitsu (there are some bravehearts, but very rear) but everyone wants
to race Honda....
And my VR4 already has 60000 miles but I don't have any problems with my
getrag.

Oleg,
www.3000gt.lv
P.S. I would like to know what cars your girlfriends are driving? your VR4s
and TTs?




For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:34:21 CST
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: precats

Actually Stillen makes a Downpipe that replaces the front pre-cat, downpipe
and main cat for about $400.  You still need to gut the rear pre-cat though.
  I think Buscher also sells a replacement for the front pre-cat, and they
sell a test-pipe.  That would be the cheaper road to take.  But get ready
for some platinum in your hair when you gut the rear pre-cat.  ;)

And for the historians out there......  Yesterday was the last day for
emissions testing in Minnesota.  They shut all the stations down because the
EPA classified Minnesota as a clean state.

Hip, Hip, Horray!!!!!!!

later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org



>From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
>To: "'Matt Wise'" <diranged@hearme.com>
>CC: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>Subject: RE: Team3S: precats (was: Boost madness / Sport-tour mode.)
>Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:36:58 -0800
>
>Matt...
>
>This has been covered at least once in detail, and should be in the
>archives. In summary...the front precat is fairly easy to duplicate, the
>rear is very difficult. A number of us talked to a variety of vendors 6-8
>months ago, all of them said either:
>
>1. We won't touch it, it's too complicated, or
>2. Sure, we can make a prototype, for $500+
>
>There is a DP made (Trust, for $1600) that replaces the front, but not rear
>precat. Bottom line...gutting is the solution of choice. Because:
>
>1. It's inexpensive (100% labor and some simple hand tools).

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:02:18 -0800
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: precats (was: Boost madness / Sport-tour mode.)

I installed a Stillen DP, that eliminates the front pre-cat and rear main
cat and has a flex section near where the main cat would have been.  It took
about 3 hours to install because the holes for the rear pre-cat just
wouldn't line up right.  A little work with a pry bar and an impact hammer
solved this, but it was tuff on ramps on my back!  Only drawback is that
when  the car starts cold, it sounds like it hits the transfer case lightly,
or maybe it just rattles the mufflers.  It does not have a support where the
original does in the center, but it weighs so much less that perhaps its not
needed.  Very good quality=$400.  Makes the stock mufflers very noisy above
2500
RPM, and roars under WOT.

Sam 95 VR4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: 'Matt Wise' <diranged@hearme.com>
Cc: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: precats (was: Boost madness / Sport-tour mode.)


>Matt...
>
>This has been covered at least once in detail, and should be in the
>archives. In summary...the front precat is fairly easy to duplicate, the
>rear is very difficult. A number of us talked to a variety of vendors 6-8
>months ago, all of them said either:
>
>1. We won't touch it, it's too complicated, or
>2. Sure, we can make a prototype, for $500+
>
>There is a DP made (Trust, for $1600) that replaces the front, but not rear
>precat. Bottom line...gutting is the solution of choice. Because:
>
>1. It's inexpensive (100% labor and some simple hand tools).
>2. It's undetectable if the car is hot and has a functioning main cat. The
>DEQ/EPA procedure probably varies from state to state, perhaps even county
>to county. In Oregon, they definitely look under the car for any signs of
>modification. Even the Trust DP, with a functioning main cat, would
>fail...not for emissions, but for being altered. They would also do their
>best to find out who should get the $10,000 fine for tampering with an
>emissions control device.
>
>Someone posted a step by step instruction months ago, if you can't find it
>let me know and I'll dig it up.
>
>Looking forward...Chris
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Matt Wise [mailto:diranged@hearme.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 1:10 PM
>To: Vineet Singh
>Cc: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>Subject: Team3S: Re: Boost madness / Sport-tour mode.
>
>Is it possible to have the precats removed and testpipe type things welded
>in their place? Will any smog station actually check for that?
>
>--Matt Wise
>*NOC Admin*
>(650) 429 3751
><snip>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:10:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Wise <diranged@hearme.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: precats

If I go ahead and do this, I'm wondering if anyone wants to help me gut
the cat :)

- --Matt Wise
*NOC Admin*
(650) 429 3751

On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Curt Gendron wrote:

> Actually Stillen makes a Downpipe that replaces the front pre-cat, downpipe
> and main cat for about $400.  You still need to gut the rear pre-cat though.
>   I think Buscher also sells a replacement for the front pre-cat, and they
> sell a test-pipe.  That would be the cheaper road to take.  But get ready
> for some platinum in your hair when you gut the rear pre-cat.  ;)
>
> And for the historians out there......  Yesterday was the last day for
> emissions testing in Minnesota.  They shut all the stations down because the
> EPA classified Minnesota as a clean state.
>
> Hip, Hip, Horray!!!!!!!
>
> later,
> Curt
> http://www.mn3s.org
>
>
>
> >From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
> >To: "'Matt Wise'" <diranged@hearme.com>
> >CC: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> >Subject: RE: Team3S: precats (was: Boost madness / Sport-tour mode.)
> >Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:36:58 -0800
> >
> >Matt...
> >
> >This has been covered at least once in detail, and should be in the
> >archives. In summary...the front precat is fairly easy to duplicate, the
> >rear is very difficult. A number of us talked to a variety of vendors 6-8
> >months ago, all of them said either:
> >
> >1. We won't touch it, it's too complicated, or
> >2. Sure, we can make a prototype, for $500+
> >
> >There is a DP made (Trust, for $1600) that replaces the front, but not rear
> >precat. Bottom line...gutting is the solution of choice. Because:
> >
> >1. It's inexpensive (100% labor and some simple hand tools).
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:12:43 +0100
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: Team3S: engine taping/ticking

Jeff Lucius wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> The ticking/tapping noise my engine developed turned
> out to be a "rod knock" (according to both Dodge and
> Mitsubishi dealers). I hope this is not the case for
> you. I could tell it definitely was not the valve
> train but it did increase with engine RPM. It was not
> very loud. Just a gentle tap, tap, tap before my bank
> account disappeared. The car was 5 years old and had
> 54.7K miles on the odometer. I had had the car for 2
> months and 1000 miles.

I may be wrong, but I am under the impression that if the tapping sound
goes away when you rev the engine a bit (increasing the oil pressure?),
then it is just the all-too-common valve lash adjuster noise.  Ignore it
until it is time for a new timing belt, when it will be cheaper to
correct.  I would think that rod knock would only get louder under these
circumstances.


> Jeff Lucius <StealthMan92@yahoo.com>
> red 1992 Stealth R/T TT; 186 CI; completely rebuilt,
> race-prepped and balanced engine; 0.050" oversized
> forged, no-silicon Venolia pistons; head flow work
> and port matching; Magnecor 8.5 mm; RC balanced stock
> injectors to 380 cc/min; TEC 15Gs; GT Alley
> intercoolers and 2" piping; K&N FIPK; improved
> pre-cats; complete ATR exhaust; EVC IV; 2 EGT,
> boost, and FP gauges; Centerforce DF clutch;
> PowerStop rotors, Metal Matrix pads, SMC brake
> lines; Nitto NT-555 P245/45ZR17; TMO Datalogger;
> 280 HP at wheels using G-Tech Pro at 11.4 psi
> boost and 5200 ft elevation.

Wow... looks like rod knock was just the excuse Jeff needed for his new
hobby!  :-)

- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.vistec.net (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Abex metallic brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 01:02:40 EST
From: Muratokcu@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: removing carbon buildup with ATF???

Water injection really removes carbon deposits.
The unlucky ones with blown head gaskets (probably their pre 3S cars) may
remember
I had maybe 15 blown gaskets in my life time and every single time, when I
removed the head, I observed that the affected cylinder and piston was free
from carbon deposits.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:18:54 -0700
From: Manoj Prasad <mprasad@uswest.net>
Subject: Team3S: Tour-sport mode for exhaust

This is my first posting so I hope I don't screw this up the way I send
this email.  Please let me know if I did something wrong
.
- ----------------
I have a 92 VR4.  When I switch from sport to tour I do not hear any
difference.  I do hear a motor in the trunk area but I do not know where
the cable goes to on the exhaust.

When I bought the car I switch from Sport to Tour and noticed that the
exhaust noice was reduced but then it never increased again.

Any thoughts?

Rgds
Moe P

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:12:43 +0100
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: Team3S: engine taping/ticking

Jeff Lucius wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> The ticking/tapping noise my engine developed turned
> out to be a "rod knock" (according to both Dodge and
> Mitsubishi dealers). I hope this is not the case for
> you. I could tell it definitely was not the valve
> train but it did increase with engine RPM. It was not
> very loud. Just a gentle tap, tap, tap before my bank
> account disappeared. The car was 5 years old and had
> 54.7K miles on the odometer. I had had the car for 2
> months and 1000 miles.

I may be wrong, but I am under the impression that if the tapping sound
goes away when you rev the engine a bit (increasing the oil pressure?),
then it is just the all-too-common valve lash adjuster noise.  Ignore it
until it is time for a new timing belt, when it will be cheaper to
correct.  I would think that rod knock would only get louder under these
circumstances.


> Jeff Lucius <StealthMan92@yahoo.com>
> red 1992 Stealth R/T TT; 186 CI; completely rebuilt,
> race-prepped and balanced engine; 0.050" oversized
> forged, no-silicon Venolia pistons; head flow work
> and port matching; Magnecor 8.5 mm; RC balanced stock
> injectors to 380 cc/min; TEC 15Gs; GT Alley
> intercoolers and 2" piping; K&N FIPK; improved
> pre-cats; complete ATR exhaust; EVC IV; 2 EGT,
> boost, and FP gauges; Centerforce DF clutch;
> PowerStop rotors, Metal Matrix pads, SMC brake
> lines; Nitto NT-555 P245/45ZR17; TMO Datalogger;
> 280 HP at wheels using G-Tech Pro at 11.4 psi
> boost and 5200 ft elevation.

Wow... looks like rod knock was just the excuse Jeff needed for his new
hobby!  :-)

- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.vistec.net (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Abex metallic brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 03:24:40 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Stock rims question....

Hi Team,

I was wondering if '94+ stock rotors will fit into 1st
gen Stealth RT TT rims? I know they wont fit into 1st
gen VR4 rims.. thanx in advance for your help!!

George

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/8576/Intro.html

__________________________________________________
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Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.
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For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 06:02:18 -0800
From: Todd Leveck <todd.leveck@hyattdiecast.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tour-sport mode for exhaust

it sounds like the valve on your muffler is frozen.  the valve is located
right behind your
rear drivers side wheel.  if it is stuck then you need to remove your tire
so you can get
to it and try to work it free using penetrating oil and pliers.    also,
check
out john adams web site for excellent instructions for doing this. hope this
helps.

todd
93 vr4 (same problem)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Manoj Prasad [mailto:mprasad@uswest.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 9:19 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Tour-sport mode for exhaust


This is my first posting so I hope I don't screw this up the way I send
this email.  Please let me know if I did something wrong
.
- ----------------
I have a 92 VR4.  When I switch from sport to tour I do not hear any
difference.  I do hear a motor in the trunk area but I do not know where
the cable goes to on the exhaust.

When I bought the car I switch from Sport to Tour and noticed that the
exhaust noice was reduced but then it never increased again.

Any thoughts?

Rgds
Moe P

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 07:15:36 -0800
From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tour-sport mode for exhaust

Hi Moe;

Welcome to the Team;

You will not really notice much difference in the tour/sport modes until you
are over 2500rpm. Then, at this level, the tour mode automatically switches
to sport mode.  From then on up the rpm band they are identical. Sport mode
is a bit louder in the lower (under 2500) rpm band. If there is no
noticeable difference in the low end sound, in both modes, then you may be
stuck in sport mode. Tune your ear to the band around 2500+ and see if you
notice it open up into a more throaty sound in tour mode when you go over
2500rpm in 2 nd gear. If this occurs, then you have no problem. If it
doesn't, it is stuck and I'm certain we'll get a fix for you on that. First,
check.

Best

Darc
- -----Original Message-----
From: Manoj Prasad <mprasad@uswest.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 10:05 PM
Subject: Team3S: Tour-sport mode for exhaust


>This is my first posting so I hope I don't screw this up the way I send
>this email.  Please let me know if I did something wrong
>.
>----------------
>I have a 92 VR4.  When I switch from sport to tour I do not hear any
>difference.  I do hear a motor in the trunk area but I do not know where
>the cable goes to on the exhaust.
>
>When I bought the car I switch from Sport to Tour and noticed that the
>exhaust noice was reduced but then it never increased again.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Rgds
>Moe P
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 07:31:26 -0800
From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tour-sport mode for exhaust

Hi Moe;

My first sentence should have read "won't notice any difference in the
tour/sport modes above 2500 rpms". I see someone has already advised on the
fix if you require one. However, insure there is no difference in the modes
under 2500 before you involve yourself in the  work.

Darc



snip

>You will not really notice much difference in the tour/sport modes until
you
>are over 2500rpm. Then, at this level, the tour mode automatically switches
>to sport mode.

snip

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:47:24 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: ADMIN: Please submit Questions for our FAQ pages.

To all:

We have been putting together a FAQ ("Frequently Asked Questions")
Page and we'll be setting it up over the next several weeks.  If any
of you have ideas for Questions that should be included (and/or the
Answers for same), please submit them to me PRIVATELY.

Among the topics are a "newbie" directory for acronyms or terms used
on the internet, and a second directory of acronyms that are
3S-specific (examples: AVC-R. OBDII, etc).  We already have many of
these terms, but I'm sure we've left some out, so your lists or
input will help keep things accurate.

TIA,

Forrest


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------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #347
****************************

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