--
From:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To:
stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.comSubject:
Team3S Digest V1 #345
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.comErrors-To:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.comPrecedence:
bulk
Team3S Digest Monday,
November 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number
345
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:54:59 -0800
From:
gil_lee@usa.netSubject: Team3S: squeak,
rattle and roll
i know it's normal for a car to start making
"noises" after been ridden for
awhile, but the problem seems a bit
extreme at least for my 92 3KGT.
i was wondering if anyone has been able
to combat the rather excessive
squeaking and rattling that has been emanating
from the back area, i think
it has to do with the plastic trim on the roof
area at the back, but it
might also be the rear suspension parts or the
active spoiler? i'm pretty
sure by the loudness of the noise that it
must be from inside the vehicle.
please note that i also have a custom
sub box with 2 x 10" PPI ProClass flat
piston woofers driven by a PPI
A600 in mono. on the one hand, it might be
the bass that might be
shaking the car apart, but then again, it's also the
only way i can drown out
the annoying sounds from the back...
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:38:11 EST
From:
TrboDrvr@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
squeak, rattle and roll
Dude, there is a TSB on the clips for the plastic
hatchback cover. The clips
cost about $5 if I recall. That
should fix your problem.
Joe 91TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:42:56 EST
From:
TrboDrvr@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Front
End Protectors
First, sorry if this is a little off topic. A few
weeks ago a member from
Canada asked about buying a bra for his
stealth. I referred him to advance
auto. The problem was,
however, that Advance Auto doesn't sell in Canada.
Yesterday I
received the new JC Whitney catalog and they have all bras for
all years of
stealths. They cost $52 plus shipping and tax. You can buy it
directly from them at their website,
www.jcwhitney.com.
Have a great
holiday everyone, and DRIVE SAFELY!
Joe 91TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:54:12 -0800
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: ram air induction
i have the a 92 w/K&N FIPK, so without
cutting a vent into the hood or
popping the hood (is that safe to drive like
that even for just a 1/4 drag
race?)
- ---
No, this is illegal on
the track.
I remove the pass. side headlight (easy), then crank out all
the relevent hood
stops at that corner.
This raises the hood in that
corner about 1/2" for more "ram" air flow into
that
area.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:56:40 -0800
From:
gil_lee@usa.netSubject: Re: Team3S:
squeak, rattle and roll
yeah, i put those in awhile back to keep the
cover from flying off ever time
you pull on it.
but the noise is still
there, i know because i removed everything from the
back area, the subbox,
cargo cover, everything not bolted down, and the
sweet squeaky music plays
on...
i'm going to have my stereo guys lock down the panels in the back
and see
what happens, just wanted to know if anyone else had this
problem...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <
TrboDrvr@aol.com>
To: <
gil_lee@usa.net>; <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: squeak, rattle and
roll
> Dude, there is a TSB on the clips for the plastic hatchback
cover. The
clips
> cost about $5 if I recall. That should
fix your problem.
>
> Joe 91TT
> For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:12:31 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: ram air induction
- -----Original Message-----From:
gil_lee@usa.net <
gil_lee@usa.net>
>has anyone devised
any kind of ram air, cold induction intake
system for
the
>3KGT/TT?
>the notion of free HP by just cooling the air is so
tempting!
>1% hp gain for every -11 degrees F, so if you have 300 HP and
you
lower the
>temp by 88 degrees, you get 8% gain or 24hp. i
know it must be
much harder
>than it sounds, but i was wondering if
anyone is selling any kits
for this.
>i've seen some interesting
experiments here:
>
http://people.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/intake.htmlThe
concept is sound, but it's just so difficult fitting any kind of
ductwork in
our cars. I rigged up a ram air system for a while
(using flexible
4" heating ducts) but it didn't appear to have much
effect and it was
butt ugly so I took it off. I'll try again at
some point using similar
ideas from Jim's page (above), but even
then, I doubt more than a 1%-2% gain
is even possible. But every
little bit helps...
>i have
the a 92 w/K&N FIPK, so without cutting a vent into the
hood
or
>popping the hood (is that safe to drive like that even for
just a
1/4 drag
>race?), i was wondering if the huge headlights could
be replaced
with a
>smaller projection lamp system. i've seen
people do cool things
with the
>headlights, like somehow leave them
half open with some sort of
custom
>headlights. kinda like the
right hand car on the 2nd row here:
>
http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/supraman4/gtobody_kits.htm>i
think most of the radical body mods are made on the japanese
cars,
i
>haven't seen any crazy mods on the 3KGT's in the US like they do
on
the
>supra, rx7, etc.
I'd secure a tether inside the hood if
you're going to try leaving
it popped during a race... You'll get more
cool air in the engine
bay, but if that sucker rips off at 120 MPH, you'll
lose the
windshield or worse. I'd also consider that the gains in HP
will be
more than offset by the increased drag.
As to body
modifications, If I had Supra or RX-7, I'd want to modify
it's looks too,
since the designs are ugly and boring. Radical body
mods work best on
ugly cars. But our cars are works of art as they
are, IMO, and I
wouldn't do a "Veilside" to it any more than I'd do
it to a
Ferrari... To each his own, I guess. But if you have to
cut
things up to put in a breather system, I'd definitely go in the
direction of
the '2nd down on the right' choice you point to in your
link. If you
must... :-)
I don't know if you remember the quote about the
Stealth TT from
Motor Trend in 1991 (also used in a Stealth Ad): "Think
of it as an
affordable Ferrari 348". If you recall, Chrysler
brought in
designers from Ferrari's Pinin Farina and Porsche to assist
in
designing the body. I kind of like what they
did...
Best,
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:54:09 -0600
From: Matt Jannusch <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: boost control
> Manual: fast to react, not effected by
elevation and
> atmospheric changes. I am curious as to the
behavior at
> the set point. When the spring & ball check
valve
> begins the opening and closing cycling to maintain the set
> boost level, is there noticible oscillation of boost and if
> so
what is the peak-to-peak oscillation? This hasn't been
> disscussed
as of yet, perhaps because the oscillation is
> negligible.
I
wasn't able to see any oscillation on my Hallman type on
either an Autometer
or VDO gauge, so I think if there's any
effect like that it is
negligible. My HKS EVC IV does
wander some, but I think that is due to
the duty cycle
settings I'm using to control other "issues" the
controller
is having, which I've not been able to correct yet.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:53:29 -0600
From: "Ryan Floyd" <
Ryan.Floyd@dvn.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Pulling the turbo's
I have a quick question, if I wanted to polish my
turbo's or send them off some where for an upgrade... what would need to
be done to still drive my car?? As I understand it I should be able to use
either exhaust wrap/ alum tape, to fill the void in both the exhaust and the
intake, and then use some brake line and fittings to make sure I don't spew
oil... but what are the safety issues on the motor and or other parts....
Is it just like having turbo's but never hitting boost? power would be way
down but would I truly hurt anything??? I just don't feel like sitting at
home for a week while I deal with learning a turbo, and possibly upgrading to
13G wheels or polishing it... is there an answer??
Ryan
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 14:10:47 -0600
From: Matt Jannusch <
MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Pulling the turbo's
> I have a quick question, if I wanted to
polish my turbo's or
> send them off some where for an upgrade...
what would need
> to be done to still drive my car?? As I
understand it I
> should be able to use either exhaust wrap/ alum tape,
to fill
> the void in both the exhaust and the intake, and then use
> some brake line and fittings to make sure I don't spew oil...
>
but what are the safety issues on the motor and or other
>
parts.... Is it just like having turbo's but never hitting
>
boost? power would be way down but would I truly hurt
>
anything??? I just don't feel like sitting at home for a
> week
while I deal with learning a turbo, and possibly
> upgrading to 13G
wheels or polishing it... is there an answer??
Hmmm...
Exhaust wrap or aluminum tape wouldn't be nearly good enough to connect the
exhaust manifolds to the downpipe. The temperatures can reach 1600F in
that region. There's also not a pipe coming out of the manifold that you
can easily connect to (like putting a pipe there and clamping something to hold
the gasses in at the joint). The easiest way to do it (if you absolutely
had to) would be to get the exhaust header/manifold setup from a non-turbo and
bolt it on. You'd also have to plug the oil and coolant feed/return lines
as well.
Overall, this doesn't sound like a great idea... Why put
your expensive car at risk? You'd be better off just driving a rental for
the few days. Besides, once you go through all the work of pulling the
turbos, you probably won't want to reassemble/disassemble everything an
additional time just to make it drivable for a few days.
- -Matt
'95
3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:42:50 +0100
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Pulling the turbo's
Wow, this hasn't tried anyone yet ! I can't
see any chance but making a big
adapter in between the O2 sensor housing and
the exhaust manifold. This will
be much, much more expensive than renting a
... Neon or something like that.
I'd say .... forget it !
Sorry.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
> oil... but what are the safety
issues on the motor and or other parts....
Is it just like
> having
turbo's but never hitting boost? power would be way down but would
I
truly hurt
>anything??? I just don't feel like sitting at home for a
week while I deal
with learning a
>turbo, and possibly upgrading to 13G
wheels or polishing it... is there an
answer??
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:53:31 +0100
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: ram air induction
Back to the old discussion, hehe.
>
1% hp gain for every -11 degrees F, so if you have 300 HP and you
lower
the
> temp by 88 degrees, you get 8% gain or 24hp. i know
it must be much
harder
> than it sounds, but i was wondering if anyone
is selling any kits for
this.
Example : Outside is 30°F, intake
temp maybe 100°F. So, how do you lower the
intake temp ? Cooling with
air, water and whatever. BUT, you should also
know that the combustion can be
"undercooled" what finally again eats up
power.
I'd be happy
with a fresh air intake just to lower the intake temp a little
and to help
the turbos with a little cooler air. >Till today, there is no
solution
without a scoop on the hood.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:48:24 -0700
From: Dave Monarchi <
monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Getrag Trans UPGRADE research
- --------
+> AWD
Getrag Sufferers:
<snip>
+> --->DOES ANYBODY HAVE A 5 or a
6-Speed TRANS that
+> grinds but is otherwise good, that they do not NEED
for
+> about 3 months (car stored for winter?) so over winter Metric
Mechanic
+> can tear
+> down, analyze, FIX, see if/what can be done
for the 1-2
+> synchro as well? They would send it back to be
installed in
<snip>
I'm sure this has been thought of, and might
not be possible anyway, but..
when I had my 91 VR4 with bad 3rd syncro, I
had my mechanic looking around
for possible solutions for me.. at the
time the local dealer had 2 6-speed
trannies waiting to be sent back as
"cores" even though the only problem
was they were leaking..
I hadn't seen the info about how to do a conversion
from 5 to 6 speed then
and they didn't know how to do it, so I didn't
persue it any more.. the
punchline is that it seemed I could have bought
one of the trannies for the
price of the core charge.. about $1000 if I
remember right.. it
might have been possible only because my mechanic
was friends with a tech at
the dealer.. dunno..
anyway, food for
thought..
Dave
95 Black 3000GT VR4
87 Mica Red GTI
G60
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:49:04 -0800
From: "Todd Schmalzried" <
Q11981@email.mot.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Radiator fan not working..............
The fans operate
differently for different years. I know I have a '91
where the fan doesn't
run at low speed, and a '94 where the radiator fan
doesn't run due to
temp.
On the '91 there are 2 sensors on the radiator. 1 controls the
radiator
fan at low speed. the other controls the radiator fan at high
speed.
When the AC is switched on the radiator fan comes on at low speed,
and
the condenser fan also comes on.
In '94 they made things a lot
more complicated. The sensors on the
radiator are gone. There is a sensor in
the block which sends a signal
to the cpu. The cpu then decides fan
should be on, and what speed. The
AC also activates the fans.
The
fans aren't really wired in series or parallel.
For a '91, the radiator fan
has a single hot lead. The high speed relay
provides ground, and the low
speed relay provides a ground with a
resistor in line. The high speed relay
also provides ground to the
condenser fan relay. The AC trips the cond fan
relay, and the low speed
fan relay.
low temp sensor = rad fan at low speed
(no AC)
high temp sensor = rad fan high, cond fan on (regardless of AC)
AC
on = rad fan low, cond fan on
Like I said above, the '94 on got a lot
more complicated. It appears the
condenser fan now has 2 speeds, and doesn't
automatically trip the rad
fan. It's also wired into a few other circuits,
plus who knows what else
in the CPU.
To figure out what is wrong you
have to know when it is and isn't
running, and what speed it's running at.
Sometimes I miss my old Merc. When the motor was on the fan was on,
very
simple. Then I get in and fly around a corner doing some insane
speed
and I don't really miss any other cars anymore. :)
> >
They are wired in series, not parallel. One comes on at first
> > then,
if the coolant temperature continues to rise, the other
> > turns
on. I've watched it happen, but never looked it up in
> > the
manual to see what the switch temperature settings are.
>
> The
second one is also wired into the same circuit that controls the air
conditioning compressor, so when the AC is on, the fan should come on
also.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:32:28 -0800
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: boost control
How does a Hallman prevent boost spikes? The
EBC all
have their own unique way of creating stable boost. Why
would
they need feedback and duty cycles if a certain opening of the
valve
was all that was neccesary to obtain a stable boost
reading?
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Schappell
<
kevin@pacarsearch.com>
To:
Stealth-3000gt (E-mail) <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Wednesday, November 24, 1999 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: boost
control
>I am going to add my 2 cents to this discussion since I
have been
>researching building my own boost controller. Manual
boost controllers
like
>the Hallman and Redline are nothing like the
bleeder valve mod or a EBC.
>They do not allow ANY pressure to go to the
waste gate before the set boost
>is reached. They do this by a
spring and ball type valve. Two things are
>good about this
system.
>1. Boost builds up in the quickest time possible since the
waste gate
could
>never creep open prematurely. I am not saying
that EBC's allow the waste
>gates to open prematurely, but I suspect they
do if they can not bleed air
>off quickly enough.
>2. They are
not affected by weather as others have said. Weather does
not
>affect the spring in the valve so the thing will open at the same
set
>pressure all the time.
> I have talked with a couple of manual
boost controller users and they have
>no changes with weather, and little
or no overshoot. One thing I do not
>like about the manual boost
controller is that there must be a hole drilled
>between the valve and the
WG to allow pressure to bleed off when the valve
>closes. If you do
not bleed off this residual pressure the WG will remain
>open even after
boost has dropped. I wonder if the bleed hole (1/16"
on
the
>Hallman) hurt performance of the WG?
> Now my plans for a
manual boost controller include a unit to adjust set
>pressure and
integral gauge which can be mounted in the interior of the
car.
>The
residual pressure mentioned above would be bled off with a solenoid
>which
should be faster than a 1/16" hole. Also Roger will be
interested
>that it will also be able to log data via a 0-5V signal.
Now if I could
>only find an affordable graph printer to attach to the
unit. The unit has
a
>peak hold function also. I should be
getting everything I need by the end
>of Dec. and will report back on how
it goes.
>
>Later,
>
>
>Kevin
Schappell
>Auto Answers
>Free automotive classifieds and
more.
>
http://www.pacarsearch.com>----------NEW
(under construction)----------
>If you love cars you have to visit
MOTORHEAD CAFE
>
http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead>
>
>
>
>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:49:50 -0800
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: boost control
Plug gap was very important to my increase in
boost. I was getting surges
and misfires at WOT until
I lowered the
gap. I did not think it was that important at first, but the
difference
is there, although I still
can not get that EGR hose gasket back in
there!
Sam 95 VR4
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Wednesday, November 24, 1999 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: boost
control
> for electronic, the apex SAVC-R sounds like the best,
beating out HKS,
Blitz
> and Profec by incredible amount of tuning
ability and the ultra cool
> display. but at ~$450 and up, how much
better is it really than the
manual
> controller?
Yes, because
you have an active element in the loop that is able to adjust
the way the WGs
are controlled.
> installation must be infinitely more complex
as well, but is it all worth
it?
It is even less complicated as some
manual BC do need to have some hoses to
routed to the valve and to be able to
control it it is mounted inside the
car. On the AVC the main difference is
additional cabeling. It is the onyl
one that needs so much. The Blitz has
only power conenction but a small hose
must run into the cabine as it senses
boost in the control unit.
> also where are most people mounting
their SAVC-R? the SAVC-R
> unlike the other EBCs has the boost gauge
built in right?
Not unlike other EBCs ! Almost every EBC has a boost
gauge because they have
to sense boost to be able to control it. Otherwise
the loop will be out of
control. With the AVC the mounting position isn't
that easy and also I have
seen nicer boost gauges than the
display.
> plus are a blow off valve and turbo timer really
recommended with either
> boost control methods, or can most of us live
with out it?
The stock bypass valve is often getting weaker over the
years and starts
leaking. Also some of us are experiencing the koncking goose
with a larger
filter and I therefore recommend an aftermarket or at least a
1st gen BOV.
Turbo timer is up to you. On my car the Blitz Dual timer works
really good
as it senses boost and vacuum and calculates the cool down phase
on the fly.
During driving you can see how it in- and decreases the time. But
I only
need it for about 10% of the switch offs. This because there is some
easy
driving till to my door necessary and this also cools the car down.
During
testing and datalogging I have seen the timer go up to 58 seconds
afterwards
!
> i'm leaning towards the manual if it can give me
balanced, safe and
> consistent increased boost (15psi sounds like the
limit if you have
> everything else stock). i have a 92 3KGT/TT
w/K&N FIPK, stock engine,
> exhaust, spark plug setup,
etc.
It's the cheap mode and works good. But You also have to get an
aftermarket
boost gauge and installation of the hose is as necessary as for
an EBC !
ÎMHO, spending a lot of money for a great car and then trying
to save each
$$ afterwards is not the right way. If you want to have reliable
power, then
you have to pay for it.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 18:08:23 -0600
From: xwing <
xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Getrag Trans Core Donation Address
I've gotten kind responses from
several people already
willing to donate $20-$100 (well, one person
suggested
$100 anyway :) toward buying a transaxle core
to
send along to Metric Mechanic for them to tear down,
analyze, see how
to fix. The money will all go toward
obtaining that transaxle
core/paying Metric Mechanic
because the first job will be their hardest--they
have to do a
stepwise teardown, writing notes and making up a
"rebuild
manual" since Getrag releases NO info (of
course).
Metric Mechanic has a website at
www.metricmechanic.comthat explains
alot of what they ALREADY do for BMW
Getrag transmissions, which suffer very
similar synchro problems.
Again, don't send money you
can't
afford--this is a "donation to the cause" and the reward
will
hopefully be BETTER transmission repair/synchro fixes,
a real and
GOOD future for the worst problem our cars have!
My fingers get tired, so
here is
my address to send "3S Getrag Fix Donations"
to:
Jack Tertadian
10010 South McGraw Drive
Oak Creek, WI
53154
I will be keeping an account of who sends what, but
until/
unless this WORKS it must be considered a "leap of
faith"
donation. Still, as a group I think this is sort of a
"noble"
thing for us to band together to do...
Once it is done,
I guess I'll publish a list of those who helped,
as a Recognition Award of
sorts? :)
Jack Tertadian
Getrag Fix Warrior
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 19:42:40 -0500
From: "Bob Rand" <
rtr@vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Transaxle removal-a few q's
Hi Rob, Its a heck of a job, but you
can do it.
1. I would recommend that you replace your rear main bearing
while you have
the tranny out.
2. Find a machine shop that will grind your
flywheel so you get a good seat
for your new clutch.
3. Get a clutch
alignment tool. Even better if you can get an old shaft from
a tranny.
4.
Rent a transmission jack the day you plan to install. Its alot easier
than
trying to wiggle the thing aroung to get it back in.
5. You may need a pry
bar to get it out as the frame tends to be a very
close fit on the firewall
side of the tranny.
6. Watch you hoses closely so that you dont hang on them
or cut them. Areas
that will be rubbed should get a healthy wrap with duct
tape or equiv.
7. When your installing the tranny, watch out for the metal
vacume loom that
runs across the top. It can get caught between the engine
and tranny and el
smasho.
8. Tools you will need are all metric.
both half and 3/8 inch also
extentions and wobble adapters. Also a good 1/2
inch breaker bar. Also a
good torque wrench in both 1/2 and 3/8
inch.
Bob
93 Stealth TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Rob
Lewin <
sdholo@hotmail.com>
To:
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent:
Thursday, November 18, 1999 12:38 PM
Subject: Team3S: Transaxle removal-a few
q's
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 19:45:29 -0500
From: "Bob Rand" <
rtr@vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Transaxle removal-a few q's
on my original post, item 1. should be rear
main seal.
sorry about that.
Bob
93 Stealth TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:33:13 -0600
From: "Paul T. Golley" <
ptgolley@hiwaay.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Boost Control
All-
I'm sure glad this is still a subject of
discussion! I thought I'd
already made so many inquiries that I'd be
flamed for bringing
it up again. In my quest to figure out how to set
the BADC on
my S-AVC-R, I got the following advice: for boost setting of
1
bar, use a BADC of 84% to 40%, depending on the person
advising. Well,
I've tried both, and many values in between.
My experience has been limited
because my datalogger (wife),
is not always available (or willing, on the way
to the grocery),
to watch the numbers flicker. My limited experience
has been
that I get a HELLUVA nice increase in torque in the 2500 to
4000
rpm range if the BADC is set up in the 65-80% range;
but I get an overboost
between 1.2 and 1.25 bar. Now if
I read my "datalogger"
correctly this is a 'spike,' that goes away
guickly. Is this a
condition the engine can tolerate? Will the
learning process eventually
eliminate this spike? I'd like to
think so since I havent blown any
Y-pipe or IC connections
so far. I also wondered what would happen if I
set the boost
to 1.2 bar, but reduced the BADC to maybe 50%, since
with
stock turbos, I'll not exceed 0.8-0.9 bar at high rpm anyway.
Any and
all comments will be VERY MUCH appreciated. I might
not have all these
questions if I could keep my "datalogger"
along side more often,
but I can't get myself to go to 6000rpm
in even 4th gear (in a six-speed),
while staring below my right
elbow.
Regards,
ptg
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 24 Nov 1999 19:57:24 -0800
From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Boost
Control
Paul;
A short quick spike under WOT is not really to be
worried about. However it
should not really jump to 1.2 You should worry if
this overboost occurs
under load in the upper gears and is not
brief.
As I advised you earlier with your model of SAVC-R, the BADC will
likely be
optimal in the 65+ setting for your application, as it is very near
what I
have. If you had mods, then I'd expect you might be running it lower
but you
are essentially a BC and K&N. I know this is pretty much the same
ole same
ole, but a I bar setting and a 65-70 BADC seem to be about ballpark
for your
setup and I am amiss to understand the 1.2 overspike. Do not set the
BAR
higher!!
Best
Darc
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Paul T. Golley <
ptgolley@hiwaay.net>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Wednesday, November 24, 1999 6:35 PM
Subject: Team3S: Boost
Control
>All-
>I'm sure glad this is still a subject of
discussion! I thought I'd
>already made so many inquiries that I'd
be flamed for bringing
>it up again. In my quest to figure out how
to set the BADC on
>my S-AVC-R, I got the following advice: for boost
setting of
>1 bar, use a BADC of 84% to 40%, depending on the
person
>advising. Well, I've tried both, and many values in
between.
>My experience has been limited because my datalogger
(wife),
>is not always available (or willing, on the way to the
grocery),
>to watch the numbers flicker. My limited experience has
been
>that I get a HELLUVA nice increase in torque in the 2500
to
>4000 rpm range if the BADC is set up in the 65-80% range;
>but I
get an overboost between 1.2 and 1.25 bar. Now if
>I read my
"datalogger" correctly this is a 'spike,' that goes
away
>guickly. Is this a condition the engine can tolerate?
Will the
>learning process eventually eliminate this spike? I'd like
to
>think so since I havent blown any Y-pipe or IC connections
>so
far. I also wondered what would happen if I set the boost
>to 1.2
bar, but reduced the BADC to maybe 50%, since with
>stock turbos, I'll not
exceed 0.8-0.9 bar at high rpm anyway.
>Any and all comments will be VERY
MUCH appreciated. I might
>not have all these questions if I could
keep my "datalogger"
>along side more often, but I can't get
myself to go to 6000rpm
>in even 4th gear (in a six-speed), while staring
below my right
>elbow.
>Regards,
>ptg
>
>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 25 Nov 1999 13:44:31 +0100
From: "R.G." <
robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Boost Control
> My limited experience has been
> that I
get a HELLUVA nice increase in torque in the 2500 to
> 4000 rpm range if
the BADC is set up in the 65-80% range;
> but I get an overboost between
1.2 and 1.25 bar.
Yes, this is true as the wastegates stay fully closed
and then open quickly.
> I read my "datalogger" correctly
this is a 'spike,' that goes away
> guickly. Is this a condition the
engine can tolerate?
No, I wouldn't bet on this ! It will tolerate 1.1
bars spikes and 1.0 or so steady under full load.
> Will the learning
process eventually eliminate this spike?
As far as I know, the spike will
stay due to the fast build-up controlled by the high BADC. This is not
controlled by the learning mechanism.
> I also wondered what
would happen if I set the boost
> to 1.2 bar, but reduced the BADC to
maybe 50%, since with
> stock turbos, I'll not exceed 0.8-0.9 bar at high
rpm anyway.
This is simple : It will cost about $2000 - $4000 depending
on the engines damage. You can't tweak the system without getting a
drawback.
The best solution is to find a BADC that allows you a little
overboost and with the selflearning a steady boost of 1.00 bars. Do not boost
over 1 bar as above this margin knock rises very quick and causes faster damage
to the engine than the ECU can react to. It's in your hands as it was in mine. I
got addicted to the immense torque and power the evil can make when increasing
the boost limit. If you increase BADC or Gain (Blitz) both cause the turbos to
boost way over 1.3 bars !!! The higher the initial boost the higher the boost
hold at high rpm. But the higher torque you are getting the earlier knock
appears on the rpm band. Not good !
It's up to you, but don't go for a
too high setting, unless you want a to do a rebuild anyways, Then you have maybe
another availability problem with your "datalogger", LOL.
PS:
Please note that the AVCR1 and AVCR2 may NOT have the same settings and the new
style uses faster electronics.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 25 Nov 1999 08:38:11 -0600
From: "Oskar" <
swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Boost Control
Paul,
I haven't followed the previous thread on this
subject so I don't know if
you have the old style SAVC-R or the new. I
have the old style SAVC-R set
at 1.0 kg/cm2, and I cannot go higher than 62%
without incurring spikes past
1.1 kg/cm2. This is with no cats on the
car and a decent flowing exhaust.
While using the stock exhaust and cats I
was able to set the BADC to 70%
while keeping the spikes to 1.1 or so.
I have also observed that with lower
BADC settings the boost spikes are very
close to the dialed in boost.
As for your "data logger" I would
advise that you get a peak boost meter of
a different kind. Boost
spikes are quite hard to notice while driving,
whether you sit in the driver
seat or the passenger seat. It is much safer
to get an electronic
peak boost devise to record the peaks. Personally I
have been happy
with the Blitz dual Turbo Timer.
Good luck,
Oskar
'95 R/T
TT
> that I get a HELLUVA nice increase in torque in the 2500
to
> 4000 rpm range if the BADC is set up in the 65-80% range;
> but
I get an overboost between 1.2 and 1.25 bar. Now if
> I read my
"datalogger" correctly this is a 'spike,' that goes away
>
guickly. Is this a condition the engine can tolerate? Will
the
> learning process eventually eliminate this spike? I'd like
to
> think so since I havent blown any Y-pipe or IC connections
> so
far. I also wondered what would happen if I set the boost
> to 1.2
bar, but reduced the BADC to maybe 50%, since with
> stock turbos, I'll
not exceed 0.8-0.9 bar at high rpm anyway.
> Any and all comments will be
VERY MUCH appreciated. I might
> not have all these questions if I
could keep my "datalogger"
> along side more often, but I can't
get myself to go to 6000rpm
> in even 4th gear (in a six-speed), while
staring below my right
> elbow.
> Regards,
>
ptg
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 25 Nov 1999 11:03:16 -0600
From: xwing <
xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
Getrag UPGRADE research Validity
AI Nut:
Your letter below, re:
not funding Metric Mech's R&D is
a valid objection, but unless someone
steps up to the plate and
sends them a core and spends some money, they have
no drive to
do it all on their own. Part of this is showing the WILL
and the NEED
as evidenced by cooperation and some money from our 3S
community
to "prove" to Metric Mechanic that the significant effort
involved in
sciencing out a "new" trans design, how to IMPROVE it,
will pay them
back with business down the road.
Quaife, in England,
replied to me via their California offices in a similar
way--they want me to
send them a core transaxle in order to tear down
and see IF/what they can do
for us. Costs Money! Problem is, Quaife has not DONE
this for
Getrags before--Metric Mechanic DOES this already for BMW
Getrags! So,
though undoubtedly Quaife (and many other companies)
COULD do it GIVEN MONEY
and time, I believe Metric Mechanic
is the "path of least
resistance" and least cost, and with the most
SPECIFIC experience to
exactly what we want.
Jim Rowe at Met Mech has been very open, said he
must get 1-2 calls
A WEEK about this 3000/Stealth trans problem lately, but
NO ONE
has actually stepped up and sent parts/money so they had no drive
to
DO anything about it...until NOW. He tells me that the cost of
the
first trans will be pretty much what the EVENTUAL cost of
rebuilding
and improving our trans will be--no "extra" cost for the
R&D, but neither
are they going to do the first one for free. They
ARE funding
their R&D themselves, in essence. The first trans COULD
be
damaged in the process...and, if the first one costs MORE
well that is
the idea behind our all pitching in on the first one with
donations...so
everybody eventually benefits--even those so focused
on making sure the last
dollar is accounted for and that the rebuilder
not make an EXTRA dollar for
effort that they not only won't send any
donation, but deride the very
idea!
Look past the tree, and see the forest...please.
Wonder who will
sign up for the hoped-for "Superior Synchro"
transaxle once
situation is all DONE and paid for...maybe by others?
Hopefully MANY! I
am GLAD of that! BUT the statement below by AI
Nut
explaining how he won't send a cent to help--and RECOMMENDS
no one
ELSE help either, but will HAPPILY take
advantage of the fruits of others'
labors and money later on--is sad.
Guess that's evidence for the saying,
"No Good Deed Goes Unpunished".
Again, I don't want people sending
money they can't afford, this
is purely a GROUP effort to find a solution to
our common problem,
supported by those with the VISION and means to do
it.
I think it is a good and worthy effort.
Sincerely,
Jack
Tertadian
10010 South McGraw Drive
Oak Creek, WI 53154
Who hopes to
convince even AI Nut of the greater good here ;)
AI Nut
wrote:
> I, for one, don't believe that we should fund the development
effort of
> the tranny place. Loaning them a tranny for them to
determine IF they
> can replicate or improve on the GETRAG is an
acceptable option. FUNDING
> their potential effort is something
else entirely. They stand to make a
> considerable profit - hence,
they should fund their own research and
> development, not us. So,
no, they get no funds from me. If my tranny
> dies, I'll be glad to
send it to them -- however, I will NOT pay for
> their research and
development.
> AI Nut
>
> xwing wrote:
>
> > I
am HOPING to find one for $1000 or less. I'll be calling around
the
> > country next Monday and Wednesday to find the
"cheapest" way...
> > until/unless this WORKS, it must
be considered a "leap of faith" donation.
> > Metric Mechanic
has a good website at
www.metricmechanic.com> >
that explains what they already do for BMW Getrag transmissions
> > and
their (very similar) synchro problems.
> > Jack
> > Kai
Langendoen wrote:
> > > How much is it? Let's get an idea of
what amounts are required so we can
> > > strategically calculate
our donations.
> > > Kai
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:02:37 -0600
From: xwing <
xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
Torque converters
Torque converter is a round doughnut-shaped device
that
has a driven-by-crankshaft side, and a
driving/attached-to-transmission
side. The DRIVING and the DRIVEN sides
consist of VANED
surfaces closely abutting each other, with hydraulic fluid
between/
inside them. When the DRIVING side rotates, the DRIVEN
side
is propelled into rotation by the hydraulic fluid rushing around
forced
by the driving vanes into the receiving vanes.
Between the two
halves is a STATOR, that can redirect the driven
fluid in such a way that the
SLIPPAGE (driving side moving faster
than driven side) forces fluid
hydraulically HARDER into the driven
vanes, so MULTIPLYING TORQUE
output...until the STALL SPEED
is reached.
STALL SPEED (put most
simply) is rpm where the engine can't go any
faster with throttle floored,
because the driven side is at 0 rpm.
Picture being at stop sign, HARD on
brakes stopped, and you FLOOR
the throttle but car doesn't move at all--what
does the tachometer show?
That is stall speed of your torque
converter.
[note to tech heads this is not exactly the stall speed, it is
a bit above
because
of the technique not allowing any motion, but it is
very close and gives the
essential idea]
If you stall at 1200rpm,
but the car makes more torque at 2500rpm, then
you are delaying max
acceleration until car moves fast enough to get rpm
to 2500. A higher
stall speed would get you into the engine's "powerband"
faster, and
would be less "doggy/slow" on takeoff launch.
A
"looser" (higher stall speed) converter thus can accelerate the car
faster
if matched well to powerband of engine. A looser converter
also is a little
less efficient--it allows more slippage, so at high
speed you lose a bit of
horsepower to that slippage (converts to heat).
If you select a proper
converter, you can gain both ET and MPH...but
sometimes you gain ET
but lose mph because of less efficient/higher
slippage.
HOWEVER, if you have a "LOCKUP" torque converter
where at some
speed/gear the converter has a lockup clutch that engages and
so NO LONGER
uses the hydraulic/slippage action, that topend efficiency can
be regained.
I suspect strongly 3S automatics lock up at some point, but
where/what rpm/
what load/speed I don't know.
If your car can't spin
the wheels on takeoff, and is a little slow off the
line,
but picks up
when your rpm's climb higher, a looser converter could very
well
help
acceleration some amount.
Nitrous oxide, which supplies pure torque, works
well with "tighter"/stock
converters.
Without NOS, a looser
converter may be a good idea.
Jack Tertadian
Michael Booker
wrote:
> Is anybody out there famillair with torque converter
operation and
> specs? I am looking into an aftermarket unit that
"has a stall speed
> between 300-800 RPM above stock". What does
that mean? I'm looking to
> upgrade, and want to know if the increased
power is worth the cost of
> the unit. Any input, is appreciated, and I'll
be posting real-life trial
> results for all of the A/T users, so we all
can benefit.
> Matt 3/Si #311
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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Nov 1999 21:12:32 -0800
From: "Dave Holden" <
dholden@deadkenny.northern-lights.bc.ca>
Subject:
Team3S: Any head gasket veterans out there?
All,
I have been
having problems with my DOHC N/A Stealth overheating for the
past week or
so. Yesterday I got out the manual and the tools and started
checking
things out. Thermostat works fine and opens at the
specified
temperatures. The cooling fan motors both work fine.
The temperature
sensor and temperature switches all function within specified
parameters. I
checked the rad to make sure that it is not all clogged
up with dead bug
bodies and other crap and it is also fine. All relays
and fuses function
normally.
While I was checking to see when the
cooling fans cycle on, I had the water
neck filler cap off with a thermometer
stuck down there. The water heated
up to about 140, then stopped
getting hotter. This makes sense because the
thermostat starts to open
at 135. Anyway, in an effort to try and get the
car to get hotter, I
cracked the throttle a little. When I did this,
coolant foamed out of
the filler neck. Every time I snap the throttle it
seems to cause
foamed coolant to come out of the filler neck. To me this
indicates
that pressurized gas is being vented into the cooling system
somehow. I
think I am looking at either a failed head gasket or a cracked
head or
block. I will take the car in tomorrow to get a compression test
and a
coolant system pressure test done. This will tell me for sure.
There
is no white foam in the oil, so the leak must be between a cylinder and
a
coolant passage, or an exhaust port and a coolant passage.
Anyway,
if I do have to pull the top end off, are there any pointers that
anyone who
has done this before can offer? Does anyone have any other
theories as
to why the car overheats?
Also, while I have everything taken apart,
I might as well do the timing
belt and water pump, as well as a full
tune-up. Apart from plugs, wires,
fuel filter, PCV valve, oil and rad
caps, and O2 sensor, is there anything
else I should do? The transaxle
oil was changed to Redline Mt90 last year,
so it should still be
fine.
Sorry for the long post. Mine are seldom short because I
don't post much
anymore.
Regards,
Dave Holden
Pearl White '91
R/T
Vancouver, BC
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