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Team3S Digest V1 #339
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Team3S Digest Thursday,
November 18 1999 Volume 01 : Number
339
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:15:36 -0700
From: "Palamara, Peter" <
pala@gwl.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RPS
clutch experiences(long)
I'm selling my VPC and rc 550 injectors for the
3000/stealth model. The vpc
comes with 2 chips one for mile high one for
sealevel. The injectors were
balanced back in April of 99. I'm asking $800
for the both. Also have the
computer from the car as well if anyinterests
(yes it works just fine going
to a whole new computer system) It was worked
by hennessee and g-force $400
if any questions drop me a line. Or if anyone
wants to forward this off to
any prospective buyer's please do so
:)
92 3000 GTO S.C.
Soon to be exactly what the plates say
:)
Plates (HIPRESR)
1-800-888-gwla x4733
http://members.xoom.com/palamarapFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:27:03 -0700
From: "Palamara, Peter" <
pala@gwl.com>
Subject: Team3S:
computer,vpc,and injectors for sale
I'm selling my VPC and rc 550
injectors for the 3000/stealth model. The vpc
comes with 2 chips one for mile
high one for sealevel. The injectors were
balanced back in April of 99. I'm
asking $800 for the both. Also have the
computer from the car as well if
anyinterests (yes it works just fine going
to a whole new computer system) It
was worked by hennessee and g-force $400
if any questions drop me a line. Or
if anyone wants to forward this off to
any prospective buyer's please do so
:)
92 3000 GTO S.C.
Soon to be exactly what the plates say
:)
Plates (HIPRESR)
1-800-888-gwla x4733
http://members.xoom.com/palamarapFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:20:42 +0100
From: "Max Hjorth" <
max.hjorth@swipnet.se>
Subject:
Team3S: Shop manual
Anyone know were I can download the shop
manual?
Max 3000GT -92
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web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:59:13 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Shop manual
- -----Original Message-----From: Max Hjorth <
max.hjorth@swipnet.se>
>Anyone
know were I can download the shop manual?
I don't think there's any
one spot where you can find the entire
manual. You can order the manual
on CD and get some samples from
Vineet's website,
http://manualcd.dsm.org
.
Best,
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:38:51 PST
From: "Rob Lewin" <
sdholo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Transaxle removal-a few q's
ok, I'm going to take the plunge and attempt
to remove the transaxle out of
my '91 Stealth TT this weekend. As this is my
first attempt, I'm hoping to
benefit from the hard won wisdom of the list as
to any tricks, traps and
special tools I really should be aware
of.
I've been following the Clutch thread and the consensus seems that an
OEM
clutch will be best for my non modded car. Anybody know of a good
supplier
besides the dealers? I understand this is a good idea to swap out
with the
transaxle removal. Any special info there I should know
of?
I do have the shop manual, but they do assume that you're a
professional
mechanic and leave out a lot of steps. I'm planning on
disassembly this
weekend, buying the parts (seals, bearings, and if
necessary a rebuilt trans
from md auto) next week, and reassembling the
following weekend. Is this
reasonable or are the parts going to be very hard
to find?
Thanks for the help!
Rob Lewin
'91 Stealth R/T
TT
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Date:
Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:26:22 -0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Ground Control Kit in at last!
Just got back from Denny's Muffler
& Brake here in Cedar Rapids, where we
spent the morning installing the
Ground Control kit with Eibach springs,
then doing an alignment. I've had the
kit all summer, and just now got the
time to put it in.
I hate to rub
it in, but here goes: Total cost was $147.00 for the
installation ($100)
AND four-wheel alignment ($40) and tax ($7). And they
let me kibitz,
hang out, and annoy the mechanics the whole time. (Probably
would have been
even less if I had sat out front and read a magazine.)
Thanks to all the
folks who contributed advice and expertise, especially
Bob Forrest who sent
me a compilation of information from the list, and
dbretton (Dave?), who put
up an entire web page with text and photos
describing the installation. I
printed it all out, plus relevant pages from
the CD-ROM shop manual, and put
it all into a 3-ring binder for the benefit
of the mechanics.
Now
that I've been through this once, I could probably tackle it myself. So
could
you.
My guy knew what he was doing when it came to struts and springs,
and
completed the install in 3 hr. Once he got all the struts off and apart,
he
took about 30 minutes to work his way carefully through the skimpy
Ground
Control instructions, look up stuff in the 3-ring binder, and do the
first
side on the rear.
Anyone who has been through this knows how
baffling it can be the first
time (I guess this part goes here, eh? They
gotta be kidding. No, that
doesn't work. What do Bretton's instructions say?
Look at the pictures. OK,
I see. It goes THIS way). If you try this yourself,
be sure to find
dbretton's web page (he's at
dbretton@ibm.net, but I don't know his
web
site address).
Then it was only 15 minutes for the other side.
Same with the fronts. When
we put it on the alignment rack, it sat perfectly
level with 27-1/4 in.
between the fender lip and ground on all four wheels.
Actually, it looks
lower in the front, but the ruler doesn't lie. I wish I
had measured it
before, to see how much it went down. At a guess, I'd say we
went down 1
in. in the front and a half-inch in the back. We took it down as
far as we
could without cutting anything.
My purpose here was not to
slam the car, but to cure its high speed push.
Still, it woulda been nice to
bring it down within an inch of the tires in
the rear, like it did in the
front.
Two questions I need to ask the group:
1. My castor is off
a little in the front now (it's within spec, though),
and there is no way to
adjust it. So my alignment guy compensated for it
with camber adjustments
(please don't ask me to explain this front end
magic). He said it would be
good if I could find a camber adjustment plate
that allowed castor
adjustments too. Anybody been through this? What did
you buy? Did it
work?
2. I am now running about 1.25 degrees negative camber in the rear
on both
sides. I showed the alignment guys all your suggestions about
drilling out
and elongating the upper control arm mount (per Ron Thompson's
advice and
diagram), but they did not want to. They said there was no way to
ensure
that the mounting bolt would stay there, and eventually it would
loosen and
allow the control arm to move around, especially the way I drive
on tracks.
They asked me to check with youse guys to see if this is indeed a
problem,
or if you have developed anything to prevent the control arm from
moving.
So, have any of you experienced any movement in the control arm? How
did
you prevent it from loosening and moving back and forth?
I can't
tell for sure how much improvement in handling resulted from the
installation
(yet), but on the Sport setting it corners like a 3700 lb
go-kart. On Tour,
it just feels a little more stiff than stock -- but with
more travel, if
that's possible. As I recall, I got 650 springs in front
and 550 springs in
the rear (Model numbers are 6550 and 9415, respectively,
so maybe it's 550
and 415).
After hearing you guys in California, New York, Boston and
elsewhere
complain about your local dealers and service providers, I consider
myself
lucky to have a competent and reasonably inexpensive Mitsu dealer AND
a
superb brake/suspension shop in the same town. There are some benefits
to
living near the end of the world (Cedar Rapids is NOT the end of the
world,
but you can see it from here).
Next projects:
New Getrag
(under warranty)
Brad Bedell's Big Red calipers & SS brake lines (when
Brad builds the
brackets)
Redline boost controller (when I figure out the
cryptic instructions)
Twin brake cooling ducts. (when I get the Big Reds
on)
New exhaust.(when all the rest is done)
Hope I can get it all done
before the snow flies.
Next March, I'll go after those Supras, TT AWD
911 Porsches, and M3s with
my 400 hp, lowered suspension, and better braking
VR4. Can't wait to shake
them up!
Zeroes,
Rich/old poop/94
VR4/only slightly slammed
.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:13:33 -0600
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\"
Russell" <
benson@2015.com>
Subject: Team3S: Ground
Control Kit in at last!
I have just the eibach springs for lowering my
car installed (not a whole
kit), and it's about a 1 - 1.3" drop all
around. Can anybody point me in
the direction of that info on what to
do to get the car aligned properly
after it's been lowered (I believe you
said bob forrest has that info)? I
took it to get a 4 wheel alignment
at a place here that has good experience
working with lowered cars.
It's all within spec from what I can tell, but
you can see if you sight down
the side of the car that the rear tires aren't
perfectly vertical like the
fronts (the top of the tires are sticking in
towards the center of the car,
and the bottom of the tires are sticking out
away from the car a little
bit). I'm curious as to if this is OK?
>1. My castor is off a
little in the front now (it's within spec, though),
>and there is no way
to adjust it. So my alignment guy compensated for it
>with camber
adjustments (please don't ask me to explain this front end
>magic). He
said it would be good if I could find a camber adjustment plate
>that
allowed castor adjustments too. Anybody been through this? What did
>you
buy? Did it work?
I remember seeing on
www.tirerack.com under their suspension area
that there
is also an eibach alignment kit for adjusting the camber of the
wheel
properly. I was told by the performance shop where I had my
springs
installed that that kit is only needed if you go too far below
1". Again,
I'm not a mechanical genius when it comes to cars, but
perhaps this could
solve your problem?
Latuh fuh
U,
Benson
benson@2015.com"-Do you ever have
second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first thoughts?"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:01:10 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Ground Control Kit in at last!
Benson...
If the
alignment is correct, there should not be an angle like you describe.
Aside
from the extra pressure on the suspension components, you're going to
wear
your tires unevenly. This is why they make adjustment kits. If it's
a
"little" out, you might choose to leave it alone and watch how
the tires
wear. If it's a "lot" out, you should consider a kit.
BTW...when I added my
Eibach's, they got the alignment within one degree of
the factory spec. I
can't see any angle and haven't seen any uneven tire wear
in 5K miles.
Looking forward...Chris
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Benson "elmagoo" Russell [
mailto:benson@2015.com]
Sent: Thursday,
November 18, 1999 2:14 PM
To: 3000GT Mailing
Subject: Team3S: Ground
Control Kit in at last!
<snip>It's all within spec from what I can
tell, but
you can see if you sight down the side of the car that the rear
tires aren't
perfectly vertical like the fronts (the top of the tires are
sticking in
towards the center of the car, and the bottom of the tires are
sticking out
away from the car a little bit). I'm curious as to if this
is OK?
<snip>
Latuh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.comFor subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:14:19 -0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Ground Control Kit in at last!
>I remember seeing on
www.tirerack.com under their suspension area
that there
>is also an eibach alignment kit for adjusting the camber of
the wheel
>properly. I was told by the performance shop where I had
my springs
>installed that that kit is only needed if you go too far below
1". Again,
>I'm not a mechanical genius when it comes to cars,
but perhaps this could
>solve your problem?
>
Could be. Let's see
if anybody else has used it.
Rich/old poop
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:33:33 -0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Ground Control Kit in at last!
. If it's a "little"
out, you might choose to leave it alone and watch how
the tires
>wear.
If it's a "lot" out, you should consider a kit.
All parameters
are within factory specs, but I can't get the same negative
camber on both
wheels because my alignment guy had to set one wheel
slightly positive and
one slightly negative to offset the castor. Still,
all are within specs. Car
drives OK, but I'd like to have a little negative
camber all the way
around.
Rich/old poop
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 18 Nov 1999 19:22:19 -0700
From: "Ricardo Cousar" <
rcousar@datawest.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Turbo_zet
Does anyone know anything about the product called the
turbo-zet ?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:12:31 EST
From:
Klusmanp@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Wanted:
2 stock rims, 91-93 VR4
Looking for 2 stock (17 x 8.5) rims for '91-'93
VR4 (same rims for all these
years, right?) or any junkyard that might have
some rims. I have 2 that are
slightly out of round and need to be replaced.
Please Email privately.
Thanks,
Paul Klusman
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 18 Nov 1999 19:32:39 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
TurboZet, eRAM electric superchargers...
- -----Original
Message-----From: Ricardo Cousar
<
rcousar@datawest.net>
>Does
anyone know anything about the product called the turbo-zet ?
Please,
when asking a question to the list about a product like
Turbo Zet, unless
it's common knowledge what the product is, tell
folks it's an electric
supercharger... Rich Leroy helped Rommel
Dizon install one in his
car. They didn't notice much difference,
and they didn't dyno it.
And Rommel no longer has the car...
I did a test on the eRAM electric
supercharger, but haven't done a
final install, because I was hoping to
redesign the NT intake system
first (so I could fit the Super eRAM...).
I posted results to the
list on July 29; here is a re-post:
-
-----------------------
Overview
- --------------
I got together
with Mark Kibort, designer of the eRAM and Super eRAM
Electric Superchargers
on Tuesday. We installed (rigged with gaffer
tape)
an eRAM electric
supercharger on my '94 Stealth base NT (which
already was
slightly modded
with K&N FIPK and resonator removed), doing
before-and-after
dyno runs
to determine if it does yield any real world HP gains.
Well, it
works, and
even with a less than optimal 'quickie' install, (blowing
air at
around 40
degrees at the MAS honeycomb, instead of straight-on), we
got a
real 5 HP
in the entire range of 3000 through 5500 RPM. We had
clear
repeat
readings (3 runs each on the dyno at Frey Racing in Mountain
View)
of 170 HP
before, and 175 HP after installing the eRAM.
{{{IMPORTANT NOTE:
This is
the HP gain 'Over and Above' the K&N FIPK
& resonator-removal gains
over
stock... The Stealth base is
rated at 164 HP, so the actual gain of
the
eRAM over stock is *unknown*--
it's somewhere more than 5 and less
than 11
HP!!!}}}
Unfortunately, we
couldn't get the Super eRAM to fit in the limited
dyno
time available, so
no test was done on that model. I'm very
encouraged
that, at least
for the non-turbos, this is a viable way to see
almost double
digit HP
gains for under $300, since I think with a proper in-line
install,
we will
see gains of at least their claimed 4% to 6% (8 to 10 HP for
a
base
Stealth, 9 to 14 HP for a 3000GT SL or Stealth R/T).
I'm
envisioning 50%
better numbers (or more) from the Super eRAM...
There's already
been some
debate on the list about whether the eRAM will
be effective on the
TTs and
VR-4s, but I'm hot on this being a good add-on
for the non-turbos,
once we
figure out how to fit them in without trashing
the stock intake
'hose'.
First pictures are up on Mark's website, at the
bottom of the page:
http://www.electricsupercharger.com/www-electricsupercharger-com/eram_instal
lations.htm
Details
-
-------------------
We met at 'The Dyno Room' at Frey Racing,
www.freyracing.com , which
is
a
company that's been around for 40 years and have respect in
the
racing
community. Judging from a dozen or so NASCAR types and
SCCA entries
in the
shop, I'd venture that these guys know what they're
doing. All they
do is
try to squeeze every available horsepower from
the cars they work
on. Our
little test on my car (with roughly 1/3
the HP of any of the other
cars in
the shop) was treated with great
respect by their dyno guy, a soft
spoken
ex-racer named Terry Barnard (who
had some interesting suggestions
for
us...). He had me start at
2000rpm, then take the car through 2nd &
3rd to
4th gear and hang at
2000rpm... When he said "go", I banged it to
WOT
through
5500rpm, then backed off and threw it in neutral. It
really
felt
like driving at 120mph (what it said on the speedo), between
the
engine
noise with the hood open and an humongous fan blowing cool air
over
the
engine (the fan was as wide as the Stealth)! Just an aside
(for you
Bay
Area folks)-- Frey Racing will take a group of our
Team3S S/3ks on
one of
their weekend "Dyno Days" and dyno your
car for $60!
Although the eRAM was impressive as hell, I'm almost as
excited by
what
Terry, Mark (and Mark's dad Bob, a former aeronautical
engineer) had
to say
about the segmented intake 'hose' on our cars:
It steals
horsepower! The
friction created by all those segments,
nooks and crannies is
slowing us
down. My summer project will be to
pull out all my old engineering
books,
and try to design a smooth intake
tube that reduces some of the air
resistance that our present system
creates. Any and all input or
assistance
you folks can give me in
this endeavor is encouraged!!!
Anyway, we'll bounce this around some more
on the list, and Mark
himself has
joined Team3S to answer any questions we
may have. I'm working with
my new computer Jennifer Godzilla III, and I
still don't have a
scanner or my digital video camera hooked up, but I'll get
you the
dyno scans and a couple of photos
ASAP.
Forrest
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End
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