--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #325
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest       Wednesday, November 3 1999       Volume 01 : Number 325




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:46:23 -0600
From: "Wendlandt, Mark (MN51)" <MWendlan@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
Subject: Team3S: Rear brake change ('91 to '94+)

After the Drivers School a few weeks ago, I was surprised at the amount of
brake dust on the rear wheels.  They must really be contributing to overall
braking!!!!

I'm wondering if I were to upgrade my rear brake calipers from '91(single
piston) to '94+(2 piston) calipers, would it cause me any braking problems
if I leave the front unchanged??

Also, when looking for rotors, I noticed they list different part numbers
for the two different years. This leads me to believe that they are
different sizes.

I would then have to upgrade the rotors and the calipers.

Keep in mind that I can't change the fronts because of wheel clearance
problems.

Does anyone see problems with this??

Thanks,

Mark
'91RT/TT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark Wendlandt  Honeywell CASSPO-Inertial Support
Phone:  612-957-3736     Pager: 612-601-0881                    
Email:  Mark.Wendlandt@cfsmo.honeywell.com         
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 10:08:32 -0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear brake change ('91 to '94+)

Yes! The Rears on the 94+ are about 1/4" larger in diameter and about 1/8"
thicker.   The wheels clear both ways.  The only modification you need will
be to cut/remove the dust shield.


Brad

Check out my home page:  http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/

E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#  3612682

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Wendlandt, Mark
(MN51)
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 9:46 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Rear brake change ('91 to '94+)

After the Drivers School a few weeks ago, I was surprised at the amount of
brake dust on the rear wheels.  They must really be contributing to overall
braking!!!!

I'm wondering if I were to upgrade my rear brake calipers from '91(single
piston) to '94+(2 piston) calipers, would it cause me any braking problems
if I leave the front unchanged??

Also, when looking for rotors, I noticed they list different part numbers
for the two different years. This leads me to believe that they are
different sizes.

I would then have to upgrade the rotors and the calipers.

Keep in mind that I can't change the fronts because of wheel clearance
problems.

Does anyone see problems with this??

Thanks,

Mark
'91RT/TT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark Wendlandt  Honeywell CASSPO-Inertial Support
Phone:  612-957-3736     Pager: 612-601-0881
Email:  Mark.Wendlandt@cfsmo.honeywell.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 11:03:32 -0500
From: "Wallis, Gavin" <WallisG@MWAA.com>
Subject: Team3S: Reply: Road Racing prep

Just a few notes old poop:

The new carbon fiber hood from GT-PRO will allow for a front strut brace
which could be of significant help to our beasts.

Get those racing seats. In addition to a inexpensive (relatively) way to
lose a good amount of weight I can't imagine you auto-x in a our stock
seats? I'd imagine your all over the place. It also really doesn't take away
from the streetability...takes me about 10 minutes to change my drivers
front seat to a race seat and yank the passenger seat out. Same goes for the
reverse.

Finally, maybe you should consider 13gs. In a conversation with Mr. JT he
told me the 13g's housing is really the same as the 9bs, just different
guts. So unless your dealership was specifically fixing one of the turbos
(which shouldn't be an issue with fresh ones) they won't notice. Even if
they were working on the turbos, they would have to specifically try to
figure out that they were not 9b's and know the tag codes. Perhaps if they
did found out (seriously doubt it) you could claim they were stock...the
Euro specs have 13gs, and the 13gs are straight from Mitsubishi. Your going
to be way out of the 9b's efficiency zone, especially after you buy that
manual boost controller. Plus of course the added benefit of boost to the
redline. Only downer is that eventually the upgrade bug might bite ya in the
butt for 15gs.

Gavin

- -----Original Message-----
From: Merritt [mailto:stealth@starnet.net]
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 10:14 PM
To: merritt@cedar-rapids.net; stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com;
stealth@starnet.net
Subject: Re: Road Racing prep

Yep. I attribute all my success to the car. I just hang on for dear life,
but I'll be playing with the big boys soon.

>> blah blah blah big post blah blah
>> ending....

Thanks.

Rich/old poop
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 10:29:22 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear brake change ('91 to '94+)

>After the Drivers School a few weeks ago, I was surprised at the amount of
>brake dust on the rear wheels.  They must really be contributing to overall
>braking!!!! I'm wondering if I were to upgrade my rear brake calipers from
'91(single
>piston) to '94+(2 piston) calipers, would it cause me any braking problems
>if I leave the front unchanged??

I wonder if the newer rear brake calipers help all that much. The rear pads
on 1st gens are much bigger and thicker  than the 2nd gens, and I know that
MY rear brakes don't work for squat. I've heard the same complaint from
other 2nd gens. The older pads are bigger. by about 50%, it seems -- I know
because Porterfield sent me the wrong set and, compared to 2nd gens, they
are longer and thicker.

Brad says: " The Rears on the 94+ are about 1/4" larger in diameter and
about 1/8"
thicker.   The wheels clear both ways."  Makes sense. The thicker rotor
also means a thinner pad and less pad material.

If your rears are actually working, maybe what you oughta do is just get a
set of Porterfield R4 pads for the rears, and leave the calipers the way
they are. Maybe what *I* oughta do is install a set of 1st gen rear brakes.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me!


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 10:39:13 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Reply: Road Racing prep

>
>The new carbon fiber hood from GT-PRO will allow for a front strut brace
>which could be of significant help to our beasts.

Aha! That's good to know.
>
>Get those racing seats. In addition to a inexpensive (relatively) way to
>lose a good amount of weight I can't imagine you auto-x in a our stock
>seats?

Yes, but not often. Just to keep my hand in.
Compared to open track, auto-X is a waste of a Sunday afternoon.

I'd imagine your all over the place. It also really doesn't take away
>from the streetability...takes me about 10 minutes to change my drivers
>front seat to a race seat and yank the passenger seat out. Same goes for the
>reverse.

Good point. What seat do you use?
>
>Finally, maybe you should consider 13gs <snip>.

I appreciate your comments, but I'm saving 13Gs for next year.

The car is already faster than I am. I just need about 400 hp to keep up
with the faster cars in my next class. There are several inferior cars out
there with a higher top end (C5s, for example), so I need the additonal hp
to catch 'em on straights.

But I don't want to build a car that's so fast I will get myself in
trouble. I'm hanging on for dear life as it is, and I have to improve my
braking and driving skills before I consider going up to 550 or 600 hp.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me!
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 14:48:16 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Datalogger & OBD II Scan software

(Todd, Re: 3000GT/Stealth)

Well then, for '94-95 cars, it sounds like the next step is to see if Todd can
supply someone with a Datalogger with the new style connector.  How about it
Todd, are you up for a little R&D?  If it really only requires a different
connector, then the work should be relatively easy.  How much arm-twisting do
you need;)?  I'm sure there are plenty of folks willing to beta test it on their
'94-95 cars.


> I don't know exactly what protocol Mitsubishi used in the '94-95 cars, but
> under my hood it says "OBDI Certified" and the EASE OBD-II scanner didn't
> work on any of the 3 OBDII protocols it tried.  What I'm wondering is will a
> scanner like the TMO datalogger (www.tmo.com) work on the car with a
> different connector.  Unfortunately I will never know because I have already
> bought a Snap-On MT2500.  I need to chase down a Snap-On truck and buy the
> OBDII connector for it and see if it works with my MT2500's old '92 Import
> ROM.  If it does, then it would probably be worthwhile for someone to disect
> a scanner like the TMO logger and try to get it to work but I haven't done
> it yet, so don't go cutting up your $300 datalogger quite yet:)
>
> jeff
> '95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
> '90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

- --
I'm just driving this way to piss you off!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 19:09:00 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Reply: Road Racing prep

13gs will not give you 550-600.  It will just let you make good power to
redline.
Just get a good boost controller and hide it or remove solenoid when you
bring
it in for service.  I have a few mods, and so far no problems from dealer.
I can
not run away from a C5 though!

Sam 95 VR4 K&N, HKS SSBOV, Stillen DP, Apex AVCr,


- -----Original Message-----
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To: Wallis, Gavin <WallisG@MWAA.com>; stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Reply: Road Racing prep


>>
>>The new carbon fiber hood from GT-PRO will allow for a front strut brace
>>which could be of significant help to our beasts.
>
>Aha! That's good to know.
>>
>>Get those racing seats. In addition to a inexpensive (relatively) way to
>>lose a good amount of weight I can't imagine you auto-x in a our stock
>>seats?
>
>Yes, but not often. Just to keep my hand in.
>Compared to open track, auto-X is a waste of a Sunday afternoon.
>
>I'd imagine your all over the place. It also really doesn't take away
>>from the streetability...takes me about 10 minutes to change my drivers
>>front seat to a race seat and yank the passenger seat out. Same goes for
the
>>reverse.
>
>Good point. What seat do you use?
>>
>>Finally, maybe you should consider 13gs <snip>.
>
>I appreciate your comments, but I'm saving 13Gs for next year.
>
>The car is already faster than I am. I just need about 400 hp to keep up
>with the faster cars in my next class. There are several inferior cars out
>there with a higher top end (C5s, for example), so I need the additonal hp
>to catch 'em on straights.
>
>But I don't want to build a car that's so fast I will get myself in
>trouble. I'm hanging on for dear life as it is, and I have to improve my
>braking and driving skills before I consider going up to 550 or 600 hp.
>
>Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me!
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 18:38:57 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Datalogger & OBD II Scan software

I asked this question of Todd a few years back.  Supposedly the protocol is
different for the 94-95 cars.  This was the same story told me by two
different ODBII diagnostic tool manufacturers.

The latter two individuals claimed that it would be possible to reverse
engineer the protocol but would take some effort and they simply had no
market payback.

At that time Todd didn't seem too interested.  So, I dropped the whole
endeavor.  If someone else can come up with something for the newer ECMs it
would surely be great.


Barry


> -----Original Message-----
>
> (Todd, Re: 3000GT/Stealth)
>
> Well then, for '94-95 cars, it sounds like the next step is to
> see if Todd can
> supply someone with a Datalogger with the new style connector.
> How about it
> Todd, are you up for a little R&D?  If it really only requires a different
> connector, then the work should be relatively easy.  How much
> arm-twisting do
> you need;)?  I'm sure there are plenty of folks willing to beta
> test it on their
> '94-95 cars.

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 17:50:50 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Datalogger & OBD II Scan software

Perhaps Jeff would be willing to contact Snap-on.  Since he paid for an
expensive scan tool that works with his "OBD I" '95 car, maybe he has some clout
and can get some info on the actual protocol they use.

Does anybody have any idea how we could get the protocol info from Mitsubishi?


"Barry E. King" wrote:
>
> I asked this question of Todd a few years back.  Supposedly the protocol is
> different for the 94-95 cars.  This was the same story told me by two
> different ODBII diagnostic tool manufacturers.
>
> The latter two individuals claimed that it would be possible to reverse
> engineer the protocol but would take some effort and they simply had no
> market payback.
>
> At that time Todd didn't seem too interested.  So, I dropped the whole
> endeavor.  If someone else can come up with something for the newer ECMs it
> would surely be great.

- --
I'm just driving this way to piss you off!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 19:34:14 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear brake change ('91 to '94+)

It would be interesting to know how much stopping the rears contribute to the
overall braking. Now that I have the Porsche/Brembo combo with the Pagid
black pads I would guess it's probably 80/20 front/rear. Brad recommended
converting to the 94+ rears --- the two piston calipers probably have constantly
more stopping power [ twice the clamping force ], the question is, how much
do you need or how much is wasted.

Someone I talked to mentioned a Vette system [ Excess systems ??? ] that uses
two calipers per rotor, one front one rear. I have no idea how you would cool
these systems once you got them hot plus the unsprung weight gets excessive.

BTY someone asked [ Merrit I think ] if you could put the front four piston caliper
on the rear. I played around a little and feel that it can be done but you would have
to completely remove the rear rotor and E brake and put the front rotor and caliper
on the rear. That would require an adapter to mount the caliper, not a big deal,
and some kind of mechanical spot caliper [ Wilwood sells one for $70 ] plus it's
attendant brackets and linkage, a fairly big deal. It would be an interesting
project,  but, can the additional braking force be utilized.

   Jim Berry





> >After the Drivers School a few weeks ago, I was surprised at the amount of
> >brake dust on the rear wheels.  They must really be contributing to overall
> >braking!!!! I'm wondering if I were to upgrade my rear brake calipers from
> '91(single
> >piston) to '94+(2 piston) calipers, would it cause me any braking problems
> >if I leave the front unchanged??
>
> I wonder if the newer rear brake calipers help all that much. The rear pads
> on 1st gens are much bigger and thicker  than the 2nd gens, and I know that
> MY rear brakes don't work for squat. I've heard the same complaint from
> other 2nd gens. The older pads are bigger. by about 50%, it seems -- I know
> because Porterfield sent me the wrong set and, compared to 2nd gens, they
> are longer and thicker.
>
> Brad says: " The Rears on the 94+ are about 1/4" larger in diameter and
> about 1/8"
> thicker.   The wheels clear both ways."  Makes sense. The thicker rotor
> also means a thinner pad and less pad material.
>
> If your rears are actually working, maybe what you oughta do is just get a
> set of Porterfield R4 pads for the rears, and leave the calipers the way
> they are. Maybe what *I* oughta do is install a set of 1st gen rear brakes.
>
> Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me!
>
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 22:43:10 -0700
From: "CEskelsen" <cesk@redrock.net>
Subject: Team3S: Clutch failure?

I have never experienced a clutch failure and am wondering if my car has an
ailing clutch or something else.  If I accelerate at a reasonable rate, the
car runs normally.  If I am enjoying my on-ramp experience, my car
"stutters," especially at the high torque range (3,500 to 5,000 rpms).  Any
opinions are greatly apperciated.

Cory Eskelsen
96 R/T TT
60k (service completed two weeks ago)

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 09:55:02 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?= <vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Team3S: Knock again

Hi,

In what RPM range do our cars knock the most? Torque peak?

I have been recommended to turn knock sensor off over 4500 rpm's
(programmable after market system) does that sound dangerous?

Also heard that HKS sells a very good knock sensor/warning device (cost
~280$). It's also possible to plug in an ear phone into the device and
listen at different frequencies while driving. Anybody tested this?

/Mikael Akesson http://www.3000gt.nu

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 10:19:30 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?= <vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Team3S: Ignition system

Hi,

I'm investigating a new ignition and fuel injection system for my car but
I'm not really sure what to look for when it comes to the ignition part.

For example one of the systems I'm looking at, say that they have 120 mJ
spark energy at the plugs and the coils are always loaded to 8.5 break amps
and that's enough to run .5 to .6 gap on the plugs up to 2 bar boost (3 bar
map sensor). I have no idea if this is true or not.

I would like to hear numbers (voltage, amp, mJ etc) both for our stock
system and also (and more important) our wish list.

What kind of numbers would our dream ignition system have???? I really need
more knowledge about this.


/Mikael Akesson http://www.3000gt.nu



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 07:46:03 -0700
From: "O'Krancy, Michael" <mokrancy@renaissance.ca>
Subject: Team3S: WANTED:  Bra for a 91 stealth twin turbo.

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

- ------_=_NextPart_000_01BF260A.26B590E8
Content-Type: text/plain

Does anyone have a bra for a 91 stealth twin turbo for sale or know of any
vendors that I could purchase one from?  I'd prefer a new one so vendor
names would be greatly appreciated.
thanks

mike

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 07:29:31 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Clutch failure?

Cory...

PLEASE don't cross post to the starnet list and our list. Send separate
messages. Thanks.

On your clutch question...clutch failure is usually signaled by slipping.
You would normally experience increasing revs, with less than normal
increase in speed. This usually occurs under load.

Stuttering, missing, etc. is more likely related to your ignition system
(plugs, wires, etc.). I tend to be VERY suspicious when problems start
happening after dealer servicing. Of course, they rarely admit any
involvement in the problem and are more than willing to charge you to
diagnose the problem.

I suggest you pull your front plugs, check the gap. Check to see that the
spark plug wire boots are seated.

Looking forward...Chris

- -----Original Message-----
From: CEskelsen [mailto:cesk@redrock.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 9:43 PM
To: 3000 list; stealth@starnet.net
Subject: Team3S: Clutch failure?


I have never experienced a clutch failure and am wondering if my car has an
ailing clutch or something else.  If I accelerate at a reasonable rate, the
car runs normally.  If I am enjoying my on-ramp experience, my car
"stutters," especially at the high torque range (3,500 to 5,000 rpms).  Any
opinions are greatly apperciated.

Cory Eskelsen
96 R/T TT
60k (service completed two weeks ago)
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Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 09:42:28 -0600
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\" Russell" <benson@2015.com>
Subject: Team3S: WANTED:  Bra for a 91 stealth twin turbo.

I was looking into getting a bra for my 3000 for long distance trips (I
drive up to Chicago every now and then, and the front end of my car looks
like a fly swatter that went through an insects nest afterwards :).  I was
at the dealer picking up my car from an oil change, and they had them right
there on their parts department shelf.  Said their about $150.  So I'd check
with a dealer in yer area and see if they have / can get them.


Latufh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com

"-Do you ever have second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first thoughts?"

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