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Team3S Digest V1 #323
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Team3S Digest
Sunday, October 31 1999 Volume
01 : Number
323
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:45:36 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Road racing prep
With winter approaching, the racing season is
over and it's time to plan
for next year. I'd like the list's opinion of the
Phase 1 improvements I
have in mind, in hopes that you will keep me from
going down the wrong
path, or you will suggest something else to do while I'm
"in there."
MY SITUATION:
I attend open track sessions,
driver's schools, and hot lapping sessions on
road courses. I do not drag
race, I do not abuse my Getrag with full power
shifts, and I rarely
take it to 7200 rpm unless I am running down a C5 or
whatever. My car
is a 94 3000GT VR4, and is superior to every other
street-driven car in my
class when driven by drivers with the same
experience as I have (I cannot
beat an instructor in an M3, for example,
although I can whup up on M3s in my
class). Nevertheless, I regularly pass
911s, M3s, Z3s, turbo 944s, 5.0
Mustangs and C5 vettes. The only cars that
give a VR4 trouble are twin turbo
AWD Porsches, Vipers, 500hp Supras, and
trailered, race-prepped cars. I
will be moving up in class next year, where
the cars are stronger and the
drivers more experienced, so I need to
upgrade my car a bit.
At
tracks like Road America, with its long straights, the car can be under
WOT
for 20 or 30 seconds at a time. Boost tends to fall off after a while,
but
the car is still stronger down the straights than most. Although some
cars
are faster ( such as a C5 corvette), I usually close up on them in the
twisty
bits, so they pull over and let me by when we hit a straight. Once I
get
ahead, I don't have to worry about their superior top end because they
don't
attempt to pass (it's not REAL racing).
We run for 20-30 minutes per
session. Engine temp is not a problem. In
fact, after a session, the car is
unfazed, as if we had just taken a drive
in the country (we have amazing
cars).
The VR4 is under extended warranty for the next 18 months.
Phase 1
improvements have to be such that they do not void my warranty, or
can be
quickly removed (such as the manual boost controller) in case I need
dealer
service.
CURRENT MODS:
Yokohama A032R race tires,
Porterfield rotors, Porterfield race pads, air
ducts to front brakes, water
injection to front brakes, inner fender wells
removed to promote air flow.
Problem: It EATS brake pads.
Planned Phase 1
mods:
ENGINE:
Red Line manual boost controller
(ordered)
Spearco Water Injection kit (to cool the input charge under
long periods of
WOT) -- is this a good idea? How can I install this for
quick warranty
removal?
Homemade low restriction cat-back exhaust -- stock cat to stock
pipe to Y to
two 2.5 in. pipes to two Flowmasters/Ansa or similar straight
through stubby
mufflers. Cuts considerable weight.
What else could I do to get 400+ hp?
Downpipe? Bigger intercoolers? Gut
the cats?
SUSPENSION:
Ground
Control/Eibach springs, lower car 1 inch all round --
ready to
install
What about new shocks or struts at this point? If so, what do
you
suggest?
BRAKES:
Brad's Big Red Porsche 12-in. calipers with Pagid
pads
Additional 2-in. cooling duct per side, perhaps with air
blowers and water
injection.
Porterfield rotors seem to work OK, but they've been turned
twice. I'll
need new ones soon. Suggestions?.
Opinions, please. What
else would be suitable at this stage? So far, I'll
have a few more
horsepower, better springs and lowering for better
cornering, and bigger
brakes to stop it.
How about an air dam in front? I'm thinking of making
a 2-in. dam all the
way around, perhaps with air ducts embedded,. and then
remove the stock air
dam and motor (save weight). Do I run fast enough (top
speed 120 mph at
most tracks) to need an air dam?
How about a rear
strut brace in the back? Does this help? Where can I get one?
Any other
suspension mods worth pursuing, such as bigger sway bars,
polyurethane
bushings, etc? Where do you get them?
Yo, Ground Control guys: any advice
on the installation, camber settings,
etc? I drive it on the street and to
the tracks, so I can't go with too
much radical negative camber. Or can
I? Whaddaya think -- 1/2 degree
negative?
Anything we can do
with the four-wheel steering? Can it be adjusted? If so,
what would you
adjust?
Where else, besides the exhaust, can I save some weight? I'd like
to shave
about 300 lb off it. Lighter wheels are probably out of the
question,
because most aftermarket wheels can't take the stress of racing,
and the
ones that can take it cost a bloody fortune.
Does anyone make
a replacement lower front valence panel that would have
bigger openings for
the intercoolers, some brake duct openings, and an air
dam?
After
next season, Phase 2 mods! Bigger turbos, bigger jets, and 550
hp!.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop
me!
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:40:55 -0500
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\"
Russell" <
benson@2015.com>
Subject: Team3S: Road
racing prep
If yer looking to cut some weight off of the car, have you
considered a
carbon-fiber hood from GT-PRO? I remember seeing a post on
the list not to
far back from a gentleman that had one put on and said it was
an excellent
quality hood, perfect fit (they weigh only 13 lbs for our size
hoods :).
Check out
www.gtpro.comAlso, you might want to
consider doing something with the rear-seats where
you can make them
removable (you don't need them when yer racing, and
that'll probably save
some major lbs right there :). I dunno how one would
go about doing
this, but I'm sure some body shop somewhere could fabricate
something for the
seats that can make them removable on demand like mini-van
rear seats (since
it's yer daily car as well, I take it you wouldn't want to
drive without the
rear seats ALL the time :).
Also, do you take extended trips in yer car
that require the more
comfortable seats? You could ditch the regular
seats and put in racing
seats that are lighter weight (but I doubt you'd want
to do that ;)p.
The last thing I could think of for ditching major weight
is to get an
all-around body kit for the car that uses either carbon-fiber,
or some other
lightweight material. Ditching all those steel body
panels for lighter
material will definately give you some big savings.
Problem is you'll be
reducing the overall saftey of the car in a crash
incident, but again,
that's something you have to decide of course (you'd
still have that heavy
duty steel frame :). That's the only really bad
thing about our cars is
they weigh 3700 frikin pouds out of the factory
:(.
Latufh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com"-Do you ever have
second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first thoughts?"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:26:39 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <
errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Road Racing prep
Hi Rich,
You didn't post this to the
Team3S list?
Merritt wrote:
> trailered, race-prepped cars. I
will be moving up in class next year, where
> the cars are stronger and
the drivers more experienced, so I need to
> upgrade my car a
bit.
Do you? ;)
> get ahead, I don't have to worry about
their superior top end because they
> don't attempt to pass (it's not REAL
racing).
If you're moving up a level next year, won't you eventually get
to a level
where they allow passing in the straights? If so, then it's
a good thing you
are planning on the bigger turbos. :)
>
CURRENT MODS:
> Yokohama A032R race tires, Porterfield rotors, Porterfield
race pads, air
> ducts to front brakes, water injection to front brakes,
inner fender wells
> removed to promote air flow. Problem: It EATS brake
pads.
Out of curiosity, which cars don't? I thought that going
through one set
of pads per day was pretty typical for most cars, unless
you're going
through more than that. A friend of mine says that M3's
eat up front tires ...
> Planned Phase 1 mods:
>
>
ENGINE:
> Red Line manual boost controller (ordered)
And boost
gauge? Very essential.
> Spearco Water Injection kit (to cool
the input charge under
> long periods of WOT) -- is this a good
idea?
Might not be necessary if you eventually plan for bigger turbos and
IC.
All you will be doing in the meantime is compensating for how
inefficient
the stock 9B's are under high rpms/boost. Bigger turbos
solves this to
a large degree. Also, you would probably be the first to
prove whether
the system is reliable under extended track
conditions.
> How can I install this for quick warranty
removal?
From reading the installs, it probably won't be that
difficult. You should
keep a spare intake Y-pipe handy, and the tank
should be pretty easy
to remove. Or you could leave it in and tell them
that you upgraded your
windshield washer fluid tank. :)
>
Homemade low restriction cat-back exhaust -- stock cat to stock
> pipe to
Y to two 2.5 in. pipes to two Flowmasters/Ansa or similar straight
>
through stubby mufflers. Cuts considerable weight.
You'll lose a LOT of
weight if you also eliminate the stock catalytic
converter system. If
you are considering a downpipe and going to a
custom system, then I suggest
that you consider making a true dual
exhaust system (like the Corvette
has). I have one. It is dual 2.5"
all the way back from the
front header/rear O2 housing. I used dual
straight-thought Dynomax
6"x18" Bullet mufflers, and they do an
excellent job of quieting
the noise. I can send you pics. A true dual
system will outflow a
single 3" (and be close to 3.5" single), and it
will have less
turbulence because of no 90 degree connections at the
rear O2 housing the the
rear T-split for dual muffs.
> What else could I do to get 400+ hp?
Downpipe? Bigger intercoolers? Gut
> the cats?
K&N FIPK!
Did you accidentally leave this out of your list?
Essential.
Upgraded BOV ($200-300) or switch to 1st gen DSM air bypass
valve
(~$60?) to eliminate high boost leak.
Gutting the cats is a
must, as long as you are doing downpipe. This
combined with downpipe
will greatly improve your midrange torque
(slight loss of very low end
torque) and greatly improve spoolup.
Raising boost will be a major power
pickup. Jay Connelly (who used
to be on this list) was blowing away
Viper GTS's left and right (he went
to a Viper meet, was ~never~ passed all
day, and passed ever Viper
which came in sight) down at PIR running about 1.2
bars of boost with
upgraded intake, exhaust, and pads.
Upgraded IC is
a big chunk of change. You might instead consider
putting that money
towards fuel upgrades. It won't be necessary
until you get bigger
turbos, but at least you'll be able to start learning
how to tweak things,
and you'll have more peace of mind that your
stock fuel system isn't pushed
too much to its limits. Here's the lineup:
RC550 or 560 injectors:
($500)
Supra fuel pump: ($180)
Used 1st gen AFC: (~$200) or new AFC:
($275)
OR you might consider that new Split Second ARC-GP2 system
that
everyone on Team3S is talking about. $1000, and you'll also
have a
bigger MAF and K&N filter to go with it. PMS is another
option
which goes for about $1000, and allows you to also tweak
your timing and get
datalog readouts but no upgraded MAF.
> SUSPENSION:
> Ground
Control/Eibach springs, lower car 1 inch all round --
> ready to
install
> What about new shocks or struts at this point? If so, what
do
> you suggest?
Barry King (and others) ~highly~ suggests the GAB
shocks. Your
stock shocks probably won't be happy with the lower drop
and
firmer springs. Or you could sell the GC kit and get a full-on
coilover
kit from Tein, one of the best Japanese suspension companies,
with
camber-adjustable pillow ball mounts. This system would make
the
GC kit look like the homemade hackjob it is. Unfortunately the
price
is about $1500, but at least that's $1000 less than the Bozz
coilovers.
Julian Ng just ordered the Tein kit, and he'll be receiving it
soon.
> BRAKES:
> Brad's Big Red Porsche 12-in. calipers with
Pagid pads
12" calipers?! I heard they were big, but not that
big! Wow.
> Additional 2-in. cooling duct per side, perhaps with
air
> blowers and water injection.
Cool. :)
>
Porterfield rotors seem to work OK, but they've been turned twice. I'll
>
need new ones soon. Suggestions?.
Somebody on Team3S said the Supra
rotors work great. Or you
might look into whatever rotors that most
Supras tend to upgrade to.
I can find out if you want me to.
>
Opinions, please. What else would be suitable at this stage? So far,
I'll
> have a few more horsepower, better springs and lowering for
better
> cornering, and bigger brakes to stop it.
Lightweight race
seats? 5 pt. harness? Roll cage? A friend of mine
just got
a 6 pt. rollcage custom made for his 2nd gen Eclipse for a
bit over
$500. It's TIG welded and total weight is about 70lbs (it would
be
30lbs if he had payed extra for chromoly). Entry into the car is not
a
problem because you can have the door bars made removable (with
grenade pins)
or "openable" (with hinge pins).
> How about an air dam in
front? I'm thinking of making a 2-in. dam all the
> way around, perhaps
with air ducts embedded,. and then remove the stock air
> dam and motor
(save weight). Do I run fast enough (top speed 120 mph at
> most tracks)
to need an air dam?
An average sports car is spending close to 50% of its
horsepower to
overcome aerodynamic resistance by only 60mph (the rest goes
to
overcoming frictional resistance from the road). A major source
of
drag for any car is the cracks and crevices underneath the body.
The
airdam is a good idea (or you could buy an aftermarket front lip,
not
too expensive), and you might also consider dropping the car
even
lower to at least 2", if you upgrade the shocks that
is.
Better engine airflow (and reduced weight) can be had with a
carbon
fiber hood with proper air vents.
> How about a rear strut
brace in the back? Does this help? Where can I get one?
I'm sure it
should help some. Some performance shops carry it.
> Any other
suspension mods worth pursuing, such as bigger sway bars,
> polyurethane
bushings, etc? Where do you get them?
No idea. It might be possible
to custom make some of this stuff.
> Anything we can do with the
four-wheel steering? Can it be adjusted? If so,
> what would you
adjust?
I don't think so.
> Where else, besides the exhaust,
can I save some weight?
Seats are a big one. Battery and stereo
system also. Rear seatbacks
can be removed before racing, and they
weight quite a bit. Sound-
deadening material also weight quite a bit,
but it makes the car less
friendly on the street. Front active aero
system and motor weighs
quite a bit also (maybe 50lbs?). Front and rear
bumpers, if you don't
fear for your life that is.
> I'd like to
shave
> about 300 lb off it. Lighter wheels are probably out of the
question,
> because most aftermarket wheels can't take the stress of
racing, and the
> ones that can take it cost a bloody
fortune.
Lighter wheels would be the big one. In addition to better
acceleration,
you would also notice a great improvement in braking. I
think TE37s
are about $500 each, and you might be on the lookout for used
wheels.
TE37s are really light in 17", and even Julian's 18" VR
Challenges weigh
only about 18 lbs.
> Does anyone make a
replacement lower front valence panel that would have
> bigger openings
for the intercoolers, some brake duct openings, and an air
>
dam?
Do you mean the front bumper cover? Have you seen the new Veilside
kit?
There are quite a few other kits out there also, but I don't see the
size of the
opening as being much of an issue (except for the brake
issue). Stock front
bumper seems fine with an added lower
lip.
> After next season, Phase 2 mods! Bigger turbos, bigger jets,
and 550 hp!.
Great! I hope to do those sometime next year
too! Fron what Jack was
recently saying, 550hp might even be a
conservative rating if you go for
the 15G's (with very little loss in
spoolup) and the car is tuned right. 600+
is probably more like
it. :)
Go get 'em!
- --Errin "can't roadrace b/c I'm
just a poor college student" Humphrey
Seattle, wA
Yellow 94
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:33:39 EDT
From:
Gr8crash@aol.comSubject: Team3S: VR4
engine
just curious, what is the most power (steetable) that someone has
gotten out
of one of these engine? and what did they do?
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:36:15 EDT
From:
Gr8crash@aol.comSubject: Team3S: i think
i already asked this but not sure
does anyone on here have a 3.0 V-6 DOHC
TT with rear, tranny, and computer
and wireing? i am looking to do a motor
swap, and this is the basis of what i
need, if anyone can help me i'd really
appreciate it, thanx
aaron
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:38:01 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Road racing prep
At 06:40 PM 10/30/99 -0500, Benson
\"elmagoo\" Russell wrote:
>If yer looking to cut some weight
off of the car, have you considered a
>carbon-fiber hood from
GT-PRO? I remember seeing a post on the list not to
>far back from a
gentleman that had one put on and said it was an excellent
>quality hood,
perfect fit (they weigh only 13 lbs for our size hoods :).
>Check out
www.gtpro.comI looked. A wee bit
expensive. Wonder if it will accommodate a strut brace?
>
>Also, you
might want to consider doing something with the rear-seats where
>you can
make them removable (you don't need them when yer racing, and
>that'll
probably save some major lbs right there :). I dunno how one
would
>go about doing this, but I'm sure some body shop somewhere could
fabricate
>something for the seats that can make them removable on demand
like mini-van
>rear seats (since it's yer daily car as well, I take it you
wouldn't want to
>drive without the rear seats ALL the time :).
I
never use the rear seats anyway. Probably 25 lb there, eh?
>
>Also,
do you take extended trips in yer car that require the more
>comfortable
seats? You could ditch the regular seats and put in racing
>seats
that are lighter weight (but I doubt you'd want to do that ;)p.
I dunno.
Maybe a Recaro seat for me might help. I find myself bracing with
the
steering wheel, and that ain't good.
>
>The last thing I could
think of for ditching major weight is to get an
>all-around body kit for
the car that uses either carbon-fiber, or some other
>lightweight
material. Ditching all those steel body panels for lighter
>material
will definately give you some big savings.
Ooooooh, that's
expensive!
Thanks for the ideas.
Rich/old poop
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:07:00 -0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Road Racing prep
>
>You didn't post this to the
Team3S list?
Sure did. They hang onto a post for a while, then ship it
out.
>
> so I need to
>> upgrade my car a
bit.
>
>Do you? ;)
Yep. I attribute all my success to
the car. I just hang on for dear life,
but I'll be playing with the big boys
soon.
>
>If you're moving up a level next year, won't you eventually
get to a level
>where they allow passing in the straights?
You are
allowed to pass in certain areas based on your class. Novices can
only pass
on the main straight, the next class or two gets to pass on other
straights,
and advanced/instructor cars can pass anywhere -- but, in all
cases, only if
you are waved by.
> I thought that going through one
set
>of pads per day was pretty typical for most cars,
No, it's
only typical for our cars. 911s and M3s can get one or two
weekends out of a
set of pads.
>
>And boost gauge? Very essential.
Of
course.
>
>> Spearco Water Injection kit (to cool the input
charge under
>> long periods of WOT) -- is this a good
idea?
>
>Might not be necessary if you eventually plan for bigger
turbos and IC.
>All you will be doing in the meantime is compensating for
how inefficient
>the stock 9B's are under high rpms/boost. Bigger
turbos solves this to
>a large degree. Also, you would probably be
the first to prove whether
>the system is reliable under extended track
conditions.
I don't see how it can hurt for one season, do you? It's not
very expensive.
>
>You'll lose a LOT of weight if you also
eliminate the stock catalytic
>converter system.
What does that do
to the warranty?
If you are considering a downpipe and going to
a
>custom system, then I suggest that you consider making a true
dual
>exhaust system (like the Corvette has). I have one. It
is dual 2.5"
>all the way back from the front header/rear O2
housing. I used dual
>straight-thought Dynomax 6"x18"
Bullet mufflers, and they do an
>excellent job of quieting the
noise. I can send you pics.
Yes,
please.
>K&N FIPK! Did you accidentally leave this out
of your list? Essential.
Ooops. Yes, I did. Got
one..
>
>Upgraded BOV ($200-300) or switch to 1st gen DSM air bypass
valve
>(~$60?) to eliminate high boost leak.
OK. More details,
please.
>
>Gutting the cats is a must, as long as you are doing
downpipe. This
>combined with downpipe will greatly improve your
midrange torque
>(slight loss of very low end torque) and greatly improve
spoolup.
OK
>
>Raising boost will be a major power pickup.
<snip lots of stuff>
That's all for next season, but thanks.
>
>> SUSPENSION:
>
>Barry King (and others) ~highly~
suggests the GAB shocks. Your
>stock shocks probably won't be happy
with the lower drop and
>firmer springs.
Hmmm.
Or
you could sell the GC kit and get a full-on coilover
>kit from Tein, one
of the best Japanese suspension companies, with
>camber-adjustable pillow
ball mounts. This system would make the
>GC kit look like the
homemade hackjob it is. Unfortunately the price
>is about $1500, but
at least that's $1000 less than the Bozz coilovers.
Nah. Way too much
money at this stage.
>> Brad's Big Red Porsche 12-in. calipers
with Pagid pads
>>12" calipers?! I heard they were big, but
not that big! Wow.
I used to have a photo of it, lying next to one
of our calipers and a ruler.\
As I recall, the caliper was 12-in.
long.
>
>
> Roll cage?
Someday for
sure.
>
> A major source of
>drag for any car is the cracks
and crevices underneath the body. The
>airdam is a good idea (or you
could buy an aftermarket front lip, not
>too expensive), and you might
also consider dropping the car even
>lower to at least 2", if you
upgrade the shocks that is.
OK.
>
>Better engine airflow (and
reduced weight) can be had with a carbon
>fiber hood with proper air
vents.
Got anything specific in mind?
>
>> How about a
rear strut brace in the back? Does this help? Where can I
get
one?
>>I'm sure it should help some. Some performance shops carry
it.
For our cars?
>
>> Where else, besides the exhaust,
can I save some weight?
>Seats are a big one.
OK, out with the
rear seats.
>Battery and stereo system also.
Gotta have my
music
>Rear seatbacks
>can be removed before racing, and they
weight quite a bit. Sound-
>deadening material also weight quite a
bit, but it makes the car less
>friendly on the street.
Nah.
Too much trouble.
Front active aero system and motor weighs
>quite
a bit also (maybe 50lbs?).
Aha! So a permanent air dam WOULD be
beneficial, at least from a weight
standpoint.
>
>Lighter
wheels would be the big one. In addition to better
acceleration,
>you would also notice a great improvement in braking.
I think TE37s
>are about $500 each,
WAY too
expensive.
>
>> Does anyone make a replacement lower front
valence panel that would have
>> bigger openings for the intercoolers,
some brake duct openings, and an air
>> dam?
>
Have you seen
the new Veilside kit? >There are quite a few other kits out
there also,
but I don't see the size of the
>opening as being much of an issue (except
for the brake issue).
I've seen them. I'd like to take the Veilside
front valence, but it's an
entire kit.
Thanks.
Rich/old
poop
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:11:19 -0500
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\"
Russell" <
benson@2015.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Road racing prep
At 06:40 PM 10/30/99 -0500, Benson \"elmagoo\"
Russell wrote:
>If yer looking to cut some weight off of the car, have you
considered a
>carbon-fiber hood from GT-PRO? I remember seeing a
post on the list not to
>far back from a gentleman that had one put on and
said it was an excellent
>quality hood, perfect fit (they weigh only 13
lbs for our size hoods :).
>Check out
www.gtpro.comI looked. A wee bit
expensive. Wonder if it will accommodate a strut brace?
>
I
don't think so. The carbon fiber hood that he sells as far as I know
is
an exact copy of the stock hood, only in carbon fiber. I'm not sure,
but I
thought I heard somewhere that he might be working on possibly a hood
that
can accomodate an upper stress bar, and I think he might be working on
a
variant of the hood that has an intake near the air-filter (basically
a
scoop of some kind in the hood) so you can get cold-air into the
air-filter.
Again, I thought I heard these somewhere (can't remember if it
was here, or
on a newsgroup), so don't quote me on those ;)p.
>
Front active aero system and motor weighs
>quite a bit also (maybe
50lbs?).
>Aha! So a permanent air dam WOULD be beneficial, at least
from a weight
>standpoint.
Does the active aero system actually
provide any performance improvement, or
is it just a gimickie thing that
doesn't really do much except alert the
cops when yer going over like 65 (or
whatever the auto-engage speed is on
that thing)? Because if it weighs
like 50lbs, wouldn't you be better off
just ditching it for the weight
savings?
Latufh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com"-Do you ever have
second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first thoughts?"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:41:37 -0400
From: "Shawn Dewey" <
sdewey@dmv.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Road
racing prep
From a road racing instructor (and 3K owner's) point of view,
safety and
driving comfort (ie; not bracing yourself) are the most important
items you
need to look at. You will be impressed at how much smoother your
driving
will become when you are not having to brace yourself (with the
steering
wheel and left foot) while also having to turn with that same
wheel.
Call Mike Welch at Road Race Engineering
http://www.roadraceengineering.comfor
a rear strut tower bar which will serve dual purpose, as a harness
mounting
bar and strut tower stabilizer. Then order yourself a good quality
4 or 5
point harness with shoulder belts that are long enough to reach back
to the
strut tower bar. These long shoulder harnesses CAN be found if you
tell the
company what your application is. It is most usually found as a
shoulder Y
harness that attaches with a single wrap at the strut tower bar.
If you have
the money to spend, I would also invest in a good quality (SAFE)
road racing
seat. This could mean an aluminum (ie: Kirkey or Butler) seat or
a composite
seat (Sparco or a meriad of other brands) that is amply braced
and secured in
the car.
The last point would be making the car more reliable, with our
cars this
would mean focusing on the braking system. Getting this system
improved to
the point that you can last an entire session without having to
make cool
down laps after you have cooked your brakes. For the Porterfield
pads try
the barbeque method that I described a few months earlier and try
baking the
rotors and bedding the brake pads to the rotors with some nice
easy heat
cycling on the street prior to your track events.
I think
focusing on these key areas, which often go overlooked by the
beginning
roadracer or autocrosser will make your driving improve much more
solidly
than throwing parts at the car and trying to find more speed from
the CAR
instead of speed and smoothness from the DRIVER.
I will be headed down to
Summit Point WV tomorrow to finish out my road
racing season and instruct
some students. Tomorrow they will be on their
second day of driver's school
for the Fall SCCA School for the Washington DC
region. Check us out @
http://www.wdcr-scca.org-
--------------------------------------
- -shawn dewey
'95 Talon ESi
#19 SSC
'81 Mazda RX7 GSL #32 Spec RX7
'93 Mitsubishi 3KGT VR-4
'91
Eagle Talon TSI AWD
http://home.dmv.com/~sdewey-
----- Original Message -----
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To:
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent:
Saturday, October 30, 1999 7:45 PM
Subject: Team3S: Road racing
prep
> With winter approaching, the racing season is over and it's
time to plan
> for next year. I'd like the list's opinion of the Phase 1
improvements I
> have in mind, in hopes that you will keep me from going
down the wrong
> path, or you will suggest something else to do while I'm
"in there."
>
> MY SITUATION:
> I attend open track
sessions, driver's schools, and hot lapping sessions
on
> road courses.
I do not drag race, I do not abuse my Getrag with full power
> shifts, and
I rarely take it to 7200 rpm unless I am running down a
C5
or
> whatever. My car is a 94 3000GT VR4, and is superior to every
other
> street-driven car in my class when driven by drivers with the
same
> experience as I have (I cannot beat an instructor in an M3, for
example,
> although I can whup up on M3s in my class). Nevertheless,
I regularly
pass
> 911s, M3s, Z3s, turbo 944s, 5.0 Mustangs and C5
vettes. The only cars that
> give a VR4 trouble are twin turbo AWD
Porsches, Vipers, 500hp Supras, and
> trailered, race-prepped cars.
I will be moving up in class next year,
where
> the cars are stronger
and the drivers more experienced, so I need to
> upgrade my car a
bit.
<major snip>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:09:46 EDT
From:
ANguyen999@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Dual
exhausts on base?
I'm the proud owner of a '92 stealth r/t na and I've
just realized that some
of the base model 3000gt's have dual exhausts.
Could I add a second pair of
pipes to the stealth? if so would there
be any benefits or drawbacks?
thanks in advance.
andy
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:41:08 -0500
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\"
Russell" <
benson@2015.com>
Subject: Team3S: Dual
exhausts on base?
heheh, basically it's just for looks. The left
pipe is the real exhaust,
the right pipe is just a split off of the main
(basically for show really,
doesn't do much :(. So yer not really
missing anything :).
Latufh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com"-Do you ever have
second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first thoughts?"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:58:44 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <
ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Dual
exhausts on base?
from a performance standpoint, why bother? the exhaust
system on NA 3kgts
weigh more then on NA stealths (extra piping and muffler).
no real
performance benifit. Any power gained by slightly more flow (very
little
power) is probably negated by the weight (anyone care to
disagree?)
from a cosmetic standpoint, sure why not? it'll look more
agressive!
it would be a better idea to do a custom cat back system from your
local
muffler shop, and then split it off to two pipes at the rear with high
flow
mufflers. even better if they can do it mandrel bent. Low end torque
will be
lost (BIG difference between running "open" no muffler, and
with stock
muffler), a little more HP gained.
Omar
92
r/t
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
[
mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of
>
ANguyen999@aol.com> Sent: Saturday,
October 30, 1999 11:10 PM
> To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Dual exhausts on base?
>
>
> I'm the proud
owner of a '92 stealth r/t na and I've just
> realized that some
>
of the base model 3000gt's have dual exhausts. Could I add a
>
second pair of
> pipes to the stealth? if so would there be any
benefits or drawbacks?
>
> thanks in advance.
>
>
andy
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:38:49 +0100
From: Matthews <
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Team3S: cure for hooting intake resonance?
Those of you who eliminated
the hooting intake resonance with a 1st gen
DSM BPV... has this been a
permanent cure? Any interference problem
with the shift linkage on the
6-speeds? And is buying from Buschur the
way to go?
Thanx.
-Jim
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Abex metallic
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:23:23 +0100
From: "R.G." <
robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: cure for hooting intake resonance?
> Those of you who
eliminated the hooting intake resonance with a 1st gen
> DSM BPV... has
this been a permanent cure?
I cannot speak for the DSM BPV but the Greddy
BOV (also a BPV style) cured it
totally and is able to withstand higher
boosts than the DSM one.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:47:39 PST
From: "Greg Gonzales" <
greggonzo1@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Car Alarms
Would it be best for me to get my alarm installed
before or after I install
my turbo timer???
I am thinking that if I
install the turbo timer after the alarm is installed
I could have trouble
with the timer install since it hooks up to the
ignition.
Any
thoughts???
Greg
92 RT
TT
______________________________________________________
Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:32:05 -0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Road racing prep
>
>Call Mike Welch at Road Race
Engineering
http://www.roadraceengineering.com>for
a rear strut tower bar which will serve dual purpose, as a
harness
>mounting bar and strut tower
stabilizer.
Thanks!
Then order yourself a good quality
>4 or
5 point harness with shoulder belts that are long enough to reach back
>to
the strut tower bar.
I'll take the rear seats out. Would that be a
better place to mount the
harness?
Or do I want to avoid downward
compression?
>If you have the money to spend, I would also invest
in a good quality (SAFE)
>road racing seat.
I'd like something
that is comfy enough to drive 300 miles to the track. So
a pure racing seat
won't do. Any ideas?
>
>The last point would be making the car more
reliable, with our cars this
>would mean focusing on the braking system.
I am. The Big Reds, remember?
>
>I think focusing on
these key areas, which often go overlooked by the
>beginning roadracer or
autocrosser will make your driving improve much more
>solidly than
throwing parts at the car and trying to find more speed from
>the CAR
instead of speed and smoothness from the DRIVER.
I agree, but I am
beginning to run with cars that have some mods and are
much more powerful.
I'm not advocating going to 550 hp, just kicking it up
a little so the CAR is
more competitive. I've maintained all along that it
ain't ME catching all
those M3s, it's my car, which is superior to other
street-driven vehicles.
But now, the cars I'll be up against will be stronger.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:10:19 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Admin Notice - Re: Road Racing prep
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To:
stealth@starnet.net
<stealth@starnet.net>;
stealth@starnet.net<stealth@starnet.net>;
3/S Sirius Mailing List
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Saturday, October 30, 1999 7:14 PM
Subject: Team3S: Re: Road Racing
prep
>>You didn't post this to the Team3S list?
>
>Sure
did. They hang onto a post for a while, then ship it out.
- --------rest
of informative post snipped-------
It's logical that you would get e-mail
before getting a list post sent at
the same time as e-mail is "first
class" while list posts are "third class";
all ISP's servers
send list mail last. But "we" (the Admins) don't hold on
to posts
at all. EVER! This is a non-moderated list, and is not edited in
any way.
Posts go directly from the owner/member to the list, and we get
them in our
e-mail just like you do. We Admins only "stick our face in" when
we
have to, to help the list run smoothly when people make mistakes. Your
phrase
"they hang on to a post..." makes it sound like we're
outsiders
instead of seven 3S owners who cared enough to create this forum.
Hopefully
this is not what you meant. We're here to share 3S info, just like
you and
all the other 500 members.
If Team3S was a moderated list, one
of us Admins would have had to reject
your (and Benson's) notes because you
"cross posted". That means posting to
Team3S with Starnet as a
"CC:", or vice versa. It's against the rules only
because it
endangers our list to do so. Normally, whichever Admin spotted
the mistake
would have sent a private reminder, but this might be a good
time to
reiterate WHY we have such a rule...
If someone from Team3S hits
"reply to all", they may not notice that Starnet
is one of the
recipients. Some mail programs don't even show the header that
comes in (I've
left it intact, above). That reply goes to you, to each of us
at Team3S, and
2 copies to Starnet. (Since both you and Benson cross posted,
Starnet is
added to the "reply to all" list twice). The Starnet server sees
a
post from you and lets it through, because you are a member. But if
the
Team3S guy that hits "reply to all" is not a Starnet member,
the 2 posts to
Starnet both "bounce" back to us as a
"non-member submission". And if we
have too many bounces a day, our
ISP has the right to close down our list!
The same is true when posting to
the Starnet list and cross posting to the
Team3S list.
Please send
separate messages to separate lists. It takes just a few seconds
more time,
but it's the right thing to do. Thanks!!!
The
Admins
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:42:56 -0600
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\"
Russell" <
benson@2015.com>
Subject: Team3S: Admin
Notice - Re: Road Racing prep
Ummm, I don't know how my message could've
gotten cross posted because I
never do any form of a 'reply' to any message I
recieve from this list? I
always open a new message, grab the subject
from the message I'm responding
to (or create my own), and then send it off
as a brand new email. So I
appologize if it got sent to multiple lists,
but I have no idea how because
I never do a 'reply' to these messages (due to
the reasons you described, I
don't know who else this might go out to when I
only want it to go to the 3S
list, so I'll create a new
message).
Latufh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com"-Do you ever have
second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first thoughts?"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:06:56 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Admin Notice - Re: Road Racing prep
Hey, Benson,
That was
my error! The original cross-post came from Errin, and
when Merritt did
a "reply to all" it was inadvertently carried into
his post, not
into yours, which was clean. I apologize for the
inaccuracy!
We're just trying to let members know of the danger
cross-posting poses to
the list, and how easily it can be carried
into multiple replies without
folks even knowing they're doing it.
We've already received several 'alerts'
from our ISP...
Just as an FYI, most of the bounces come from
"mailbox full" errors,
but one double cross-post answered by 6
people generates 12 bounces,
and the ISP always seems to jump on us for
it... (And BTW, we
already got 9 other bounces today!)
Once
again (as always) you are faultless!!! :-) But this Admin
needs
glasses!
Best,
Forrest
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Benson "elmagoo" Russell <
benson@2015.com>
To: 3000GT Mailing
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Sunday, October 31, 1999 1:23 PM
Subject: Team3S: Admin Notice - Re: Road
Racing prep
>Ummm, I don't know how my message could've gotten
cross posted
because I
>never do any form of a 'reply' to any message I
recieve from this
list? I
>always open a new message, grab the
subject from the message I'm
responding
>to (or create my own), and
then send it off as a brand new email.
So I
>appologize if it got sent
to multiple lists, but I have no idea how
because
>I never do a 'reply'
to these messages (due to the reasons you
described, I
>don't know who
else this might go out to when I only want it to go
to the 3S
>list, so
I'll create a new message).
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:40:35 -0600
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\"
Russell" <
benson@2015.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Admin Notice - Re: Road Racing prep
Ahhh, ok, kewl :). I just
wanted to make sure that there wasn't something
freaky coming from my end
causing something weird that I wasn't aware of :).
>Once again (as
always) you are faultless!!! :-)
heheh, now if only I can convince
my boss of this.....hmmmm....... ;)p.
It's a fabulous list guys, I know
I'm definately very happy I 'stumbled'
upon it :). I've already learned
a bunch from just the few weeks I've been
on it, and the people are all very
helpful. I guess it's just another
'perk' of owning a 3/S car, a great
knowledgable community of people willing
to help keep the 3/S cars on top
:).
Latufh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com"-Do you ever have
second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first thoughts?"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:34:02 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: cure for hooting intake resonance?
>Those of you who
eliminated the hooting intake resonance with a 1st gen
>DSM BPV... has
this been a permanent cure? Any interference problem
>with the shift
linkage on the 6-speeds? And is buying from Buschur the
>way to
go?
>
>Thanx. -Jim
>
>--Bought an HKS SSBOV- slight
problem with reverse. Now fixed thanks to
Fastboy's idea of tying it
away from linkage with nylon ties. Works great,
no hooting noise
ever.
Sam 95 VR4
>Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
>
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
>
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews>
>***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
>
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html>Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
>Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
>K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R
(1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
>A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
>Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
>Abex
metallic brake pads, custom braided brake lines
>Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4
245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
>G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @
113.9 mph
>1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft
torque
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:01:39 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: APEXi Boost Controller Operation
>>a It will spike pretty
high around 3-5k rpm (enough to
>>damage an otherwise stock
car),
>
>Sam-
>Mine is an otherwise stock car. What do I
need to
>change the BADC to, to avoid damage? If I run
it
>up to 6000 rpm several times, will it learn to avoid
>going over
my 1.00 bar set-point?
>Regards,
>ptg
>
>Well, I am a
little bit of a hypocrite cause I have fixed the problem by
turning
my
BADC down to about 45%, but then the boost comes on too slow for my
taste,
so I move it back up to 60%. Then it intermittantly spikes to
1.12-1.2 bar
(this is
not continuous, so I do not know the damage it
causes!) You can turn the
feedback
up to minimize boost drop once
you have turned the duty cycle down. I am
still
playing because you
can get this unit to aggressively boost with some
settings.
With
just a 2500-3000 RPM launch, I can get all 4-wheels spinning,
other
settings
make me wait till after 3k to get good pressure. The
manual says to turn
the unit off
and check your max boost while
driving. If its around .4 bar or under ( I
think our cars
are) start
at 70% duty. Then run the car with unit on and lower BADC if
you
overshoot max.
Keep doing this until you get what you want. I
have also lowered my 1 bar
setting to .9 so that
the car will only
overshoot an acceptable amount.
Sam 95 VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:05:46 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat"
<sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: APEXi Boost Controller
Operation
If I run it
>up to 6000 rpm several times, will it learn
to avoid
>going over my 1.00 bar
set-point?
>Regards,
>ptg
>
>I have not been able to get
the unit to correct automatically,
fast enough to prevent overboost without
suffering from poor
response. Every mod I do changes the way this unit
performs.
Even the blow off valve install made me turn my boost duty
cycle
down 10%. I
Sam
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:11:48 -0600
From: "Jeff" <
spydervr4@home.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: cure for hooting intake resonance?
Yes, the 1G DSM BOV will hit
the shift linkage. I have tried to shorten the
hose to the Y pipe to
pull it away, but it doesn't matter. You can tell it
touches it in 3rd
gear, and you have to REALLY push to get it in 5th gear
(so I just don't use
5th--too lazy to find a permanent fix.) You might
check with Buschur to
see if his adapter includes a 90 degree bend in it
like the stock BOV.
If it does, you shouldn't have any clearance issues.
I'm using the adapter
off of the 2g DSM which doesn't have the 90 degree
bend.
jeff
'95
Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: Matthews <
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
To:
Team 3S Tech List <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent:
Sunday, October 31, 1999 2:38 AM
Subject: Team3S: cure for hooting intake
resonance?
>
> Those of you who eliminated the hooting
intake resonance with a 1st gen
> DSM BPV... has this been a permanent
cure? Any interference problem
> with the shift linkage on the
6-speeds? And is buying from Buschur the
> way to
go?
>
> Thanx. -Jim
>
> --
> Jim Matthews -
Wiesbaden, Germany
>
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
>
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews>
>
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
>
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html>
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
> Adjustable
Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
> K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super
AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
> A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
> Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
> Abex
metallic brake pads, custom braided brake lines
> Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4
245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
> G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @
113.9 mph
> 1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft
torque
>
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