--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #321
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Precedence:
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Team3S Digest
Friday, October 29 1999 Volume
01 : Number
321
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:37:28 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
> Sounds like a
worthwhile investment to me.
Damn, as usual, I'm still skeptic and don't
see a real gain out of it.
Fortunately, there is now an UDVP with dampener
and this will prevent any
problems. But I just can't see the gain here.
Slowing down the accessories
is ok but do you guys know how much power they
are consuming ?
I once played with such pulley on the Camaro and some of
us really saw a
gain ... 2-5hp. This is within any tolerances on the dyno and
of a few
degrees on the ambient. The drawback is now a much harder steering
for daily
driving, dimming lights during idleing and slowing down fans at
idle as
well. And finally, paying $345 for a few horses including the side
effects
... sorry, but I'm not amazed regarding the bang of the buck. 15hp
gain and
we can speak about.
If one is building a real race car I'm
sure he already throwed away the AC,
disconnected the alternator and probably
drives without power steering. Even
more he disabled ECS and AWS (if it is
possible to disable it) as well as
ABS.
If one is running 12.5 and
then is installing an UDVP on the same day and
then runs 12.3, I'd say ok,
but how much are 5 hp worth in time ?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:59:11 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 9B, 13G, 15G relative performances
> >>4) During our
dyno runs the ambient was 50 F deg the intake temp at the
> >>start
of my dyno was 104 deg F and the intake peak after about 20
seconds
>
>>of running at 12 psi was 224 deg F!!! So I do think that the fan
was
not
> >>very effective. However, I cannot compare this
to the real world,
because
> >>I have not been able to find the
proper hill where I can maintain 12 psi
of
> >>boost in fourth
gear. The most I have been able to maintain was about
10
>
>>seconds which resulted in a peak of 139 deg F.
>
> I would
not consider this difference negligible, and Mike also attributed
it
>
to the effectiveness of the fan. Maybe the numbers you mentioned
above
> (161F and 156F) are temps at idle or at steady cruising?
There must be
> a reason why Mike had such different readings.
We
also discussed about the readings as mine were significantly lower
compared
to the two Stealths and almost the same mods. We thought about the
design
differences of the front bumper as my 93 seemed to have larger
openings than
the 2nd gen Stealths. As the IC are the same we came to the
conclusion that
this must be the larger 13G turbos. At 1 bar the cars have
the same power
although the intake temp was higher on the Stealth than on my
3000GT. We did
not found any bad due to this extremely high intake reading
but for sure on
both turbos the efficiency was not good anymore but mine
resulted in a better
discharge temp.
Ahem, please note that I'm not doing idle tests
;-)
> >>3) If I turn off the car, after fully heating up,
let it sit 10-15
minutes, then
> >>start it back up, the intake
temp is about 20-25 deg above ambient and
it
> >>takes about 10
minutes of HIGHWAY driving to get it back down to 10
> >>degrees
difference. For dragracers that let their cars sit between
runs,
this
> >>is something that you should REALLY be
monitoring.
In reality it is much worser ! I saw a 50°F increase at 90°F
ambient.
> > interestingly, noone has maps for 9B, 13G or even 15G
or 17G.
>
> That's too bad. Maybe TEC can provide them to
somebody so we
> can study them.
We already tried TEC and they say
this is secret ... Only Turbonetics is
displaying their maps on their site.
But maybe one has a good link ;-)
> Maybe you might consider going
back to the stock ECU? I'm really
> wondering how well the gtpro
turbos like your 368s (or the 355s which
> Brian says are better than
15Gs) will compare to the 15Gs. I guess
> I'll just have to wait and
see.
Yes, I'll probably go back as the programs I got from G-Force are
less
powerful than my stock EU ECU or a stock US ECU (I have logs from
all
three). But the less timing causes much lesser knock and I can
somewhat
crank down fuel as well as boost up :-) The rest does the WIS. But I
hacked
the programs and know where to change the maps. I'm just having not
enough
time to do everything :-(
Regarding the 368s .... I'm currentl
calculating around and today it just
looks like one turbo would be enough,
haha. No really, at low rpm it seems
that I run into the surge line but I'm
not yet sure. More calcs to do.
Later
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:02:33 -0500
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\" Russell" <benson@2015.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
I have a '95 base 3000gt and have
installed an Unorthodox Racing underdrive
pulley, and I'll swear by it
anyday. I've also installed the K&N air
filter, and I noticed way
more improvement after putting the drive pulley on
than I did with the
air-filter (granted, I know the real improvement with
the K&N will show
when I upgrade the exhaust system). One thing to remember
with the
3000/stealths is that the alternators on these things are highly
efficient as
compared to american cars. I've heard stories of rustang
owners putting
them on and not having enough power to run the stereo system
properly
afterwards :).
After putting on the pulley, at idle I get just over 12V
on the meter as
opposed to the just over 13V at idle from before. Yes
the headlights are
slightly (and I mean slightly) dimmer during idle than
before, but nothing
else has suffered on the car (the climate system works
great, and being in
Oklahoma where it's hot it does get used often :), and
the stock Infinity
system with the 200 watt power amp still cranks 'em loud
'N proud with no
dips in power or sound quality). When I actually apply
the gas and start to
drive, then it kicks up to almost 14V on the meter,
which is plenty of juice
to run everything no problems at all.
The
moment I drove it away from the shop with the pulley on I noticed a
good
improvement in power. Before the pulley was put on, the throttle
response
was slightly hesitant (as in I'd push the pedal, and it would take
about a
half-second before the tach really started moving). After
putting on the
pulley, throttle response has become more instant, I'd push
the pedal and
the tach would respond instantly. As to how much specific
horsepower it's
provided I couldn't say exactly since I don't know where to
go to get that
tested, but I know the extra power is there (dropped about .5
seconds off of
my 0-60 times).
whether or not you pick the pulley that
Mr. Tertadian is talking about, or
the Unorthodox one is of course up to you
(I'm assuming that the pulley Mr.
Tertadian is talking about does a little
more than the Unorthodox one,
considering it's over double the price?).
But again, I've enjoyed mine
since I've gotten it, a great affordable upgrade
(cost me about $170 +
installation).
Latufh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com
"-Do you ever have
second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first thoughts?"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:57:32 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: New & Improved lifters?
Is there a specific year Mitsu
started using these?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:59:14 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
Depends, whats the
intertial mass lost by using this in place of stock?
Theres huge torque
increases in reducing the mass of your driveline.
In road racing, such a
MOD would be very very valuable.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: R.G. [mailto:robby@freesurf.ch]
Sent: Thursday,
October 28, 1999 11:37 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
> Sounds like a
worthwhile investment to me.
Damn, as usual, I'm still skeptic and don't
see a real gain out of it.
Fortunately, there is now an UDVP with dampener
and this will prevent any
problems. But I just can't see the gain here.
Slowing down the accessories
is ok but do you guys know how much power they
are consuming ?
I once played with such pulley on the Camaro and some of
us really saw a
gain ... 2-5hp. This is within any tolerances on the dyno and
of a few
degrees on the ambient. The drawback is now a much harder steering
for daily
driving, dimming lights during idleing and slowing down fans at
idle as
well. And finally, paying $345 for a few horses including the side
effects
... sorry, but I'm not amazed regarding the bang of the buck. 15hp
gain and
we can speak about.
If one is building a real race car I'm
sure he already throwed away the AC,
disconnected the alternator and probably
drives without power steering. Even
more he disabled ECS and AWS (if it is
possible to disable it) as well as
ABS.
If one is running 12.5 and
then is installing an UDVP on the same day and
then runs 12.3, I'd say ok,
but how much are 5 hp worth in time ?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:04:22 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
I gained nearly 35FtLbs
in torque, and 11Hp on my 87 Turbo Supra by replacing
the 33lbs OEM
driveshaft with a 21lb one-piece steel shaft, and replacing the
OEM
belt/clutch fan with a Black Magic electric fan.
The driveshaft was about
90% of the torque gain and 0 HP gain, the fan was the
remaining torque and
all HP gain.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com]
Sent:
Thursday, October 28, 1999 12:59 PM
To: 'R.G.'; stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
RE: Team3S: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
Depends, whats the
intertial mass lost by using this in place of stock?
Theres huge torque
increases in reducing the mass of your driveline.
In road racing, such a
MOD would be very very valuable.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: R.G. [mailto:robby@freesurf.ch]
Sent: Thursday,
October 28, 1999 11:37 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
> Sounds like a
worthwhile investment to me.
Damn, as usual, I'm still skeptic and don't
see a real gain out of it.
Fortunately, there is now an UDVP with dampener
and this will prevent any
problems. But I just can't see the gain here.
Slowing down the accessories
is ok but do you guys know how much power they
are consuming ?
I once played with such pulley on the Camaro and some of
us really saw a
gain ... 2-5hp. This is within any tolerances on the dyno and
of a few
degrees on the ambient. The drawback is now a much harder steering
for daily
driving, dimming lights during idleing and slowing down fans at
idle as
well. And finally, paying $345 for a few horses including the side
effects
... sorry, but I'm not amazed regarding the bang of the buck. 15hp
gain and
we can speak about.
If one is building a real race car I'm
sure he already throwed away the AC,
disconnected the alternator and probably
drives without power steering. Even
more he disabled ECS and AWS (if it is
possible to disable it) as well as
ABS.
If one is running 12.5 and
then is installing an UDVP on the same day and
then runs 12.3, I'd say ok,
but how much are 5 hp worth in time ?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:30:28 -0500
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\" Russell" <benson@2015.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
>Depends, whats the intertial
mass lost by using this in place of stock?
>Theres huge torque
increases in reducing the mass of your driveline.
>In road racing,
such a MOD would be very very valuable.
There's a big difference. I
still have my stock pulley at home, I can take
a picture of it if anybody is
interested in seeing what it looks like (but
I'm not taking off the
Unorthodox one since I can't get to it now ;). But
the Unorthodox
pulley is about half the size of the original, and definately
weighs a lot
less (probably a lighterweight material, and it's less 'solid'
meaning that
if you've seen a picture of one
it's not completely solid filled if that
makes any sense the way I described
it :).
Latufh fuh
U,
Benson
benson@2015.com
"-Do
you ever have second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first
thoughts?"
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:19:32 -0600
From: Dave Monarchi <monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject:
Team3S: straightening intercooler (or radiator) fins
Does anyone know any
great tricks for this? both of my ICs have a sizable
area of mangled
fins, and I don't relish the thought of spending hours
straightening every
one individually..
thanks!
Dave
95 Black 3000GT
VR4
87 Mica Red GTI G60
r
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:23:54 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: straightening intercooler (or radiator) fins
I used a wood
ice-cream stick.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dave Monarchi [mailto:monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU]
Sent:
Thursday, October 28, 1999 1:20 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: straightening intercooler (or radiator) fins
Does anyone
know any great tricks for this? both of my ICs have a sizable
area of
mangled fins, and I don't relish the thought of spending hours
straightening
every one individually..
thanks!
Dave
95 Black
3000GT VR4
87 Mica Red GTI G60
r
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:59:25 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
> I have a '95 base
3000gt and have installed an Unorthodox
> Racing underdrive pulley, and
I'll swear by it anyday.
Hmm, you'll be swearing AT it when your main
bearings are shot.
> whether or not you pick the pulley that Mr.
Tertadian is
> talking about, or the Unorthodox one is of course up
to
> you (I'm assuming that the pulley Mr. Tertadian is
> talking
about does a little more than the Unorthodox one,
> considering it's over
double the price?). But again, I've
> enjoyed mine since I've
gotten it, a great affordable
> upgrade (cost me about $170 +
installation).
The Buschur pulleys contain a torsional damper assembly
(essentially a section of rubber connecting the two halves of the pulley).
This allows the pulley to act as a damper against the harmonic vibrations in the
crankshaft caused by the cylinders firing. It is very important to keep
the harmonics damped in some fashion to prevent bearing damage. Of course,
the Unorthodox folks will say that the accessories provide this damping, which
is completely false as a counterweight is required to perform the damping
action. The counterweight is supplied by the rubber section allowing the
pulley to twist and let the inertia of the outer pulley ring counteract the
torsional flex of the crank.
Anyways...
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:06:34 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
The Supra list I read
refuses to belive this as well.
Some users have had "odd" wear on #1 main
bearing set when a non-related rebuild
time came up, and others report no
problems over the last few years.
Let me insert a message from that list,
with some Supra related date (thats
relevant here in sprit as well)
-
---
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:12:27 -0600
From: Reg Riemer <supras@home.com>
To: "mkiv@mkiv.com List" <mkiv@mkiv.com>
Subject: underdrive
pulley's ver's Toyota Stock
Correct Guys. Rob and Bryce are tack on
here. Toyota uses Dual mode damper
pulley designs in all their
engines. The factory stock pulley is designed
to absorb both torsional
and bending lateral vibration from the crankshaft.
The factory stock
pulley helps the crankshaft deal with high vibration in
the 400 Hz range
after the #1 piston fires. Overall this has many benefits
on the bottom
end. It helps the crank deal with high continuous loads as
well as
overall bearing life, not to mention overall engine life. Also
the
driveline will have a more pleasing sound with very little 400Hz
vibe's
setting up.
Don't remove the stock crank pulley on any of
your toyota turbo or NA
engine's. To replace the factory engineered
pulley with something made by a
person or company that does not understand
the complete engine design will
hurt the performance/reliability of your
Toyota not help it.
Cheers guys.
Reg
Riemer
\
SONiC
Supra Owner Network in Canada
See the SONiC
web site @
www.supras.com/~riemer/sonic/sonic.htm
/
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Jannusch [mailto:MAJ@BigCharts.com]
Sent: Thursday,
October 28, 1999 2:59 PM
To: 3000GT Mailing
Subject: RE: Team3S: REAL
Underdrive Dampeners Available!
> I have a '95 base 3000gt and
have installed an Unorthodox
> Racing underdrive pulley, and I'll swear
by it anyday.
Hmm, you'll be swearing AT it when your main bearings are
shot.
> whether or not you pick the pulley that Mr. Tertadian is
> talking about, or the Unorthodox one is of course up to
> you
(I'm assuming that the pulley Mr. Tertadian is
> talking about does a
little more than the Unorthodox one,
> considering it's over double the
price?). But again, I've
> enjoyed mine since I've gotten it, a
great affordable
> upgrade (cost me about $170 + installation).
The
Buschur pulleys contain a torsional damper assembly (essentially a section
of
rubber connecting the two halves of the pulley). This allows the pulley
to
act as a damper against the harmonic vibrations in the crankshaft caused
by the
cylinders firing. It is very important to keep the harmonics
damped in some
fashion to prevent bearing damage. Of course, the
Unorthodox folks will say
that the accessories provide this damping, which is
completely false as a
counterweight is required to perform the damping
action. The counterweight is
supplied by the rubber section allowing
the pulley to twist and let the inertia
of the outer pulley ring counteract
the torsional flex of the crank.
Anyways...
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:23:46 -0400
From: "Michael McWilliams" <CelMike@email.msn.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 13G vs 15G
Well, my rear turbo is shot so it looks like its
upgrade time! I'm trying
to weigh the pros and cons of 13G vs 15G
turbos (cost aside). My existing
mods are: K&N, gutted pre-cats,
ATR Eliminator downpipe, ATR cat-back,
Hallman boost controller, Magnecore
wires, NGK plugs @.34
While I may take the car to the strip every once in
a while, this car is my
daily driver. I'm leaning towards the 15Gs, but
I'm curious to hear your
opinions. Is there that big of a lag
difference between the two upgrades?
I don't mind a little more lag than
stock, just as long as it doesn't really
mess up the streetability of the
car. Has anyone out there installed the
15Gs in their street car and
wished they'd gone with 13Gs instead?
Thanks for any input.
BTW, I
DO plan on upgrading the fuel system and adding water injection at
some
point.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:51:21 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Methanol - Opinions
Nope. Then I couldn't drive it around, I do NOT
need another
race-only car! They stink, eat up rubber and aluminum
etc...
just not for me.
Jack
Aso8@aol.com wrote:
> Has anyone (Dr.
J.T) considered using Methanol ?
> Arty
> For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:36:33 -0500
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\" Russell" <benson@2015.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
I emailed and asked Matt over at www.dynamicracing1.com (an
online
store/site dedicated to 3000/stealth performance) about the
Unorthodox
pulley's causing bearing problems because of not having a damper
on it. He
says as far as he knows all the bad press around the
Unorthodox pulley's is
speculation at best, but there's no hard evidence that
has linked motor
failures to them. He's currently had his on his
Stealth TT for about 2 1/2
years now, and his partner Dan about 2 months less
than that with no
problems at all (and matt drives his car hard, doing shifts
at about 7500
rpm (he's raised the rev limiter)). He's also said that
he's sold 100's of
them and hasn't received one single complaint about them
either.
If something ever happens to my car as a direct result of it I'll
definately
let you guys know about it, but 2 1/2 years is good long time to
'field
test' a part for potential problems :). Take from this what ya
will of
course, but I'm still happy with my purchase :).
Latufh
fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com
"-Do you ever have
second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first thoughts?"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:24:26 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
> I emailed and asked
Matt over at www.dynamicracing1.com
(an online
> store/site dedicated to 3000/stealth performance) about the
Unorthodox
> pulley's causing bearing problems because of not having a
> damper on it. He says as far as he knows all the bad press
around
> the Unorthodox pulley's is speculation at best, but there's no
hard
> evidence that has linked motor failures to them.
Buschur
Racing made comments about there being excessive main bearing wear on their cars
that used the Unorthodox pulleys. I'd imagine that not a lot of people
tear down their motors as often as they do, and therefore never see the
damage. They haven't been out that long, so its hard to tell what the
long-term effects of them are. All I know is that it is difficult to
ignore the laws of physics.
Your mileage may vary, as always...
No
Unorthodox pulleys on any of my* cars...
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:41:04 -0500
From: Trevor James <Trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Tach dropping off to 0 at WOT....
At WOT my tach will just fall to 0 and
bounce between what it should read and 0...The
dealerships had the car since
Tues morn and they can get it to duplicate, just don't
know where to start
looking to fix it. Seems like it does it more when underhood temps
are high.
Any Ideas????
96 R/T TT (HKS EVC IV@1.00Bar, Plugs@.034", Accel Wires, Borla,
K&N FIPK)
92 GMC Typhoon
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:52:10 -0400
From: "Gil Gomes" <gil@warpedweb.com>
Subject: Team3S:
weird noises when cold...
I've noticed, recently, that
when my '95 3KGT base is cold I hear this
pretty strange
noise emanating
from the passenger side front. It's a rather fast thump..
thump...
thump
sound that goes away as the car warms up. I tend to think it
might be the
strut. It almost
sounds like the strut is
binding. I bought the car in April and only
recently has the
weather
been cold enough for this problem to pop up. Once I've gone a
few miles...
the sound just
plain disappears. Any ideas? The
sound isn't all that loud, and it's
almost sub-sonic.
- -R
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:25:57 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Tach dropping off to 0 at WOT....
Trevor,
> At WOT my
tach will just fall to 0 and bounce between what it should read and
0...The
> dealerships had the car since Tues morn and they can get it to
duplicate, just don't
> know where to start looking to fix it. Seems like
it does it more when underhood temps
> are high. Any Ideas????
I'd
start at the wires first ! Due to the design of the ignition stuff, you "might"
get problems with differnet wires. The already heard bad stories about the Accel
ones and that they may cause a short when touching the heads (Camaro buddies
reported this). With "low resistance" wires, the current flowing through the
power tranistors can get higher and this causes the tach sensor in the same case
to be irritated. I got almost the same problem when I tested the B&M
ignition amplifier as the tach jumped around the 3000 mark due to the increased
power. The current is not that high with my Magnecors as their resistance is
much higher than the Accel ones. The problem can really be related to
temperatures as the wires will heat up too.
Good
luck
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:59:12 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
> says as far as he knows
all the bad press around the Unorthodox pulley's is
> speculation at best,
but there's no hard evidence that has linked motor
> failures to
them. He's currently had his on his Stealth TT for about 2 1/2
>
years now, and his partner Dan about 2 months less than that with no
>
problems at all (and matt drives his car hard, doing shifts at about
7500
> rpm (he's raised the rev limiter)). He's also said that he's
sold 100's of
> them and hasn't received one single complaint about them
either.
Yes, if I want to sell stuff I also would say that I sold
hundereds of them. But hey, it's the only pulley they have to sell :-) For the
knowledge on our cars, dynamic-racing are not the first address to talk to. They
sell parts and know what is sold good and what bad.
AFAIK, there is no
report on a 3S cars with broken parts that are related to the UDVP. I often
thought about the pulleys and always ended in the decision NOT to put any more
stress on my crankshaft ! Therefore, if one REALLY wants to spend so much money
for a pulley then he should go with the dampened version.
If one is
really wanting to know what power a pulley makes, test it on the track, the same
day (should be possible) and we'll know !
> If something ever happens
to my car as a direct result of it I'll definately
> let you guys know
about it, but 2 1/2 years is good long time to 'field
> test' a part for
potential problems :). Take from this what ya will of
> course, but
I'm still happy with my purchase :).
I didn't knew Matt had his car for 2
1/2 year now as well as the pulley was available then. I started some long time
ago with tunign the car and I firstly heard of the pulley about 1 1/2 years ago.
But I may be wrong ;-)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:58:26 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
> I didn't knew Matt had
his car for 2 1/2 year now as well as
> the pulley was available then. I
started some long time ago
> with tunign the car and I firstly heard of
the pulley about 1
> 1/2 years ago. But I may be wrong ;-)
I also
noticed on their site that none of their customers on their customers page, nor
the two owners, have done anything with engine internals to the point where they
would see the crank bearings. Therefore, no first-hand knowledge. I
freely admit I have no first-hand knowledge either, but I also know there's a
real good reason that Mitsu uses the damping pulleys and understand the physics
behind the reason.
Their prices are pretty good though... I'm
thinking about getting my turbos (probably 15G), SplitSecond, 550cc injectors
and fuel pump from them in the spring.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:17:09 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 13G vs 15G
Michael...
I went straight from 9Bs to
15Gs. I'm not sure why someone would do it
differently (unless their car came
with 13Gs, like Roger's). The airflow
improvement is significant, and I've
experienced NO loss in streetability as
a result of that (and associated)
mods (see list below). The only thing I
would do different is skip the
G-Force ECU mod. It has been a royal PITA and
I'm in the process of having
Robert send me a jumper to eliminate his
daughter board for comparison
testing.
Oh, well..."maybe", given the intake test results recently
published, I
"might" buy a K&N versus the HKS if I was doing it
again.
Looking forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS
Super Flo intake, TEC 15G turbos, bored
and polished throttle body, RC 560cc
injectors, HKS fuel pump, GReddy PRofec
A boost controller, G-force ECU
upgrade, HKS SBOV, custom intercoolers,
Predator dry cell battery, Magnecore
8.5mm wires, NGK double platinum plugs
gapped at .030", ATR downpipe and test
pipe, GReddy catback exhaust, GReddy
turbo timer, Eibach 1" drop progressive
springs, Michelin SX MXX3 Pilots)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Michael McWilliams [mailto:CelMike@email.msn.com]
Sent:
Thursday, October 28, 1999 4:24 PM
To: Sirius 3000GT Mail List
Subject:
Team3S: 13G vs 15G
<snip>
While I may take the car to the
strip every once in a while, this car is my
daily driver. I'm leaning
towards the 15Gs, but I'm curious to hear your
opinions. Is there that
big of a lag difference between the two upgrades?
I don't mind a little more
lag than stock, just as long as it doesn't really
mess up the streetability
of the car. Has anyone out there installed the
15Gs in their street car
and wished they'd gone with 13Gs instead?
Thanks for any
input.
BTW, I DO plan on upgrading the fuel system and adding water
injection at
some point.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:09:35 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: K&N - best price?
- -----Original Message-----From: Dave
<monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
>I
figured I'd try to redeem myself by asking a (slightly)
more
relevant
>question.. I want to get a
FIPK/Aircharger/whatever tomorrow, (or
at
>least order one) and
wondering if anyone has found any smokin'
deals..
>
>I found one
ad in Sport Compact Car that listed a special on the
Aircharger
>for a
2nd gen Eclipse for $79. (I'm aware of the filter size
and
L-bracket
>issues.) Do any of you know of any other
deals? Is the consensus
still
>that that K&N works best or at
least as good as others?
You've probably ordered it by now, but in case
you haven't, I'd like
to recommend that you get the FIPK or equivalent.
And the
Aircharger is not what I'd call an equivalent. It's a much
smaller
unit, which I've tried, and it seems just fine, but the
difference
in surface area is enough that I'm convinced it flows much less
air
than the FIPK. Further, the FIPK is the only one which comes with
a
numbered CARB sticker, which can make a difference when emissions
time
comes around (whether you're in California or not). I was told
by an
emissions tech that they know their cars and recognize when an
aftermarket
filter is under the hood. If you're borderline in
emissions it may mean
the difference between pass or fail. The
FIPKs go for between $140 and
$150, only $60 to $70 more than the
Aircharger on sale. If it flows
twice as much air than the
Aircharger, that seems like a small price to pay
for the best.
Get the FIPK.
Best,
Forrest
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:20:59 -0500
From: "Wendlandt, Mark (MN51)" <MWendlan@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: K&N - best price?
Sorry for the correction Bob, but the
Aircharger is about twice as BIG as
the FIPK filter. It is longer(you
will not be able to mount your DSBC
solenoid in the usual place) and is
bigger around. This can only lead to
more potential air flow.
Some members in our club have actually switched to
the Aircharger from the
FIPK with positive results(seen at the drag strip).
If you are not
concerned with the C.A.R.B sticker, I would go with the
Aircharger(if you can
still find one...I heard that they stopped making
them) for $80-90
bucks.
The differences in mounting are trivial.
Mark
Wendlandt
'91RT/TT
www.mn3s.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark
Wendlandt Honeywell CASSPO-Inertial Support
Phone:
612-957-3736 Pager:
612-601-0881
Email: Mark.Wendlandt@cfsmo.honeywell.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Forrest [mailto:bf@bobforrest.com]
Sent: Friday,
October 29, 1999 10:10 AM
To: Dave; stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: K&N - best price?
- -----Original Message-----From:
Dave <monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
>I
figured I'd try to redeem myself by asking a (slightly)
more
relevant
>question.. I want to get a
FIPK/Aircharger/whatever tomorrow, (or
at
>least order one) and
wondering if anyone has found any smokin'
deals..
>
>I found one
ad in Sport Compact Car that listed a special on the
Aircharger
>for a
2nd gen Eclipse for $79. (I'm aware of the filter size
and
L-bracket
>issues.) Do any of you know of any other
deals? Is the consensus
still
>that that K&N works best or at
least as good as others?
You've probably ordered it by now, but in case
you haven't, I'd like
to recommend that you get the FIPK or equivalent.
And the
Aircharger is not what I'd call an equivalent. It's a much
smaller
unit, which I've tried, and it seems just fine, but the
difference
in surface area is enough that I'm convinced it flows much less
air
than the FIPK. Further, the FIPK is the only one which comes with
a
numbered CARB sticker, which can make a difference when emissions
time
comes around (whether you're in California or not). I was told
by an
emissions tech that they know their cars and recognize when an
aftermarket
filter is under the hood. If you're borderline in
emissions it may mean
the difference between pass or fail. The
FIPKs go for between $140 and
$150, only $60 to $70 more than the
Aircharger on sale. If it flows
twice as much air than the
Aircharger, that seems like a small price to pay
for the best.
Get the FIPK.
Best,
Forrest
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:32:46 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
Because nobody has had a
problem..is immaterial.
The physics and experience from the V8 world
around an un-dampened pulley is
fact regardless of who built the
motor.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Benson "elmagoo" Russell [mailto:benson@2015.com]
Sent: Thursday,
October 28, 1999 4:37 PM
To: 3000GT Mailing
Subject: RE: Team3S: REAL
Underdrive Dampeners Available!
I emailed and asked Matt over at www.dynamicracing1.com (an
online
store/site dedicated to 3000/stealth performance) about the
Unorthodox
pulley's causing bearing problems because of not having a damper
on it. He
says as far as he knows all the bad press around the
Unorthodox pulley's is
speculation at best, but there's no hard evidence that
has linked motor
failures to them. He's currently had his on his
Stealth TT for about 2 1/2
years now, and his partner Dan about 2 months less
than that with no
problems at all (and matt drives his car hard, doing shifts
at about 7500
rpm (he's raised the rev limiter)). He's also said that
he's sold 100's of
them and hasn't received one single complaint about them
either.
If something ever happens to my car as a direct result of it I'll
definately
let you guys know about it, but 2 1/2 years is good long time to
'field
test' a part for potential problems :). Take from this what ya
will of
course, but I'm still happy with my purchase :).
Latufh
fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com
"-Do you ever have
second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first thoughts?"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:34:03 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Throttle sticking at WOT
Twice now, Ive been in a street
situation where my throttle has STUCk wide open.
Ive eliminated carpet as
a culprit, and will be taking car to the dealer soon
(Monday) for
diagnosis.
Thoughts?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:46:58 EDT
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Throttle sticking at WOT
In a message dated 10/29/99 10:36:02 AM Central
Daylight Time,
jeff.mohler@netapp.com
writes:
<< Twice now, Ive been in a street situation where my
throttle has STUCk wide
open.
Ive eliminated carpet as a
culprit, and will be taking car to the dealer soon
(Monday) for
diagnosis.
Thoughts?
>>
Jeff,
Check your throttle
body/butterfly area; the rubber/O ring gasket that is
attached to the inside
of your upper y-pipe that connects to the throttle
body may have been sucked
in and causing your butterfly linkage control area
to stay wide open;
the dealer will insist you replace the whole y-pipe which
will cost around
$120. Supposedly the rubber gasket/ 0 ring is not available
by itself.
This happened to me once at the Track!!! Scary feeling when you
have no
control of your car!!!!! And you're flying through the finish
line of the
1/4 mile and CANNOT stop!!!!!!!
Yikes!!!!!!
Good luck,
Ahmed "AL-CraZy" - '92 VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:14:39 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: K&N - best price?
I'll back up Mark on this one
too. The Aircharger is about twice as big as
the FIPK. And
mounting is easy. All you do is drill a hole about half way
down the
bracket and it will fit fine. I've installed one on my Eclipse and
on
two 3/Ses. The only reason to buy a FIPK is if CARB means something to
you, or you have your heart set on mounting the Blitz soleniod in the extra
space.
Oskar took a picture of the two, side by side. It is
right here:
http://www.mn3s.org/k-ns.jpg And I
paid $75, shipped to my door, for my
Aircharger.
But be warned.
The Airchargers are discontinued, so look hard for one.
:)
later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org
>From:
"Wendlandt, Mark (MN51)" <MWendlan@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
>To:
"'Bob Forrest'" <bf@bobforrest.com>, Dave
><monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>Subject:
RE: Team3S: K&N - best price?
>Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:20:59
-0500
>
>Sorry for the correction Bob, but the Aircharger is about
twice as BIG as
>the FIPK filter. It is longer(you will not be able
to mount your DSBC
>solenoid in the usual place) and is bigger
around. This can only lead to
>more potential air flow. Some
members in our club have actually switched
>to
>the Aircharger from
the FIPK with positive results(seen at the drag strip).
>
>If you
are not concerned with the C.A.R.B sticker, I would go with
the
>Aircharger(if you can still find one...I heard that they stopped
making
>them) for $80-90 bucks.
>
>The differences in mounting
are trivial.
>
>Mark Wendlandt
>'91RT/TT
>www.mn3s.org
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Mark
Wendlandt Honeywell CASSPO-Inertial Support
>Phone:
612-957-3736 Pager: 612-601-0881
>Email: Mark.Wendlandt@cfsmo.honeywell.com
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:16:55 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Datalogger & OBD II Scan software
This may be old news, but
it is good news to folks with modified 2nd gen cars.
Most of us know
about the Datalogger that Todd Day has created. It is extremely
useful
for monitoring engine parameters and tuning a car. Unfortunately it
only
works with '91-93 3000GT's since in '94 they went to the ODB II
style
connector.
While browsing the web recently, I came across
a few OBD II Diagnostic
utilities. There are numerous handheld tools
with small displays as well as PC
Software tools. The most interesting
software tools I saw were:
http://www.easesim.com/products.htm
http://www.baumtools.com/obd2scan.htm
http://www.autotap.com/autotap.html
All
of them are about the price of Todd's Datalogger, under $400, but the
last
one currently does not work with Asian vehicles. The most
interesting one is
the first from EASE Diagnostics. Their Personal
Basic OBD II Scan Tool sells
for $295 (software & cable) while the
Personal Delux OBD II Scan Tool sells for
$395. They also sell OBD I
versions for about the same price.
Has anyone with a 2nd gen car tried
using an OBD II diagnostic/scan/datalogger
tool yet? Can anyone confirm
that the '94 and '95 diagnostic ports actually
conform to the OBD II ISO
standard (everything from '96 on must conform by
law)?
- --
Drive faster, it is later than
you think!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San
Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:28:20 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: K&N - best price?
My error... One of the techs at a
local Racing Shop called the
small one an Aircharger, and I just assumed
that's what is was
called. Thanks for the correction. And I
agree... Bigger is
better!
Forrest
- -----Original
Message-----From: Wendlandt, Mark (MN51)
<MWendlan@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
>Sorry
for the correction Bob, but the Aircharger is about twice as
BIG
as
>the FIPK filter. It is longer(you will not be able to mount
your
DSBC
>solenoid in the usual place) and is bigger around.
This can only
lead to
>more potential air flow. Some members in
our club have actually
switched to
>the Aircharger from the FIPK with
positive results(seen at the drag
strip).
>
>If you are not
concerned with the C.A.R.B sticker, I would go with
the
>Aircharger(if
you can still find one...I heard that they stopped
making
>them) for
$80-90 bucks.
>
>The differences in mounting are
trivial.
>
>Mark Wendlandt
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:44:46 -0600
From: Dave <monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: K&N - best price?
Thanks Bob, Curt and Mark for the
comments.. I have indeed already ordered
the Aircharger and knew I'd
have to get creative if (when!) I get the boost
controller..
for any
of you that don't have one yet, FIPK or otherwise, I ordered mine
from
Options Auto Salon from their ad in Sport Compact car. Ended up
being $87 to
me.. $79 + $8 shipping.. sorry I didn't mention the
name of the place before,
but given that they're discontinued I wanted to
make sure I got _my_ order
in.. ;)
1-800-678-2886
http://www.optauto.com/ (the
website doesn't mention the filter special)
Dave
95 Black VR4
87
Mica Red GTI G60
Curt Gendron wrote:
>
> I'll back
up Mark on this one too. The Aircharger is about twice as big as
>
the FIPK. And mounting is easy. All you do is drill a hole about
half way
> down the bracket and it will fit fine. I've installed one
on my Eclipse and
> on two 3/Ses. The only reason to buy a FIPK is
if CARB means something to
> you, or you have your heart set on mounting
the Blitz soleniod in the extra
> space.
>
> Oskar took a
picture of the two, side by side. It is right here:
> http://www.mn3s.org/k-ns.jpg And I
paid $75, shipped to my door, for my
> Aircharger.
>
> But be
warned. The Airchargers are discontinued, so look hard for one.
:)
>
> later,
> Curt
> http://www.mn3s.org
>
> >From:
"Wendlandt, Mark (MN51)" <MWendlan@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
>
>To: "'Bob Forrest'" <bf@bobforrest.com>, Dave
>
><monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
>Subject: RE: Team3S: K&N - best price?
> >Date: Fri, 29 Oct
1999 10:20:59 -0500
> >
> >Sorry for the correction Bob, but
the Aircharger is about twice as BIG as
> >the FIPK filter. It is
longer(you will not be able to mount your DSBC
> >solenoid in the usual
place) and is bigger around. This can only lead to
> >more
potential air flow. Some members in our club have actually
switched
> >to
> >the Aircharger from the FIPK with positive
results(seen at the drag strip).
> >
> >If you are not
concerned with the C.A.R.B sticker, I would go with the
>
>Aircharger(if you can still find one...I heard that they stopped
making
> >them) for $80-90 bucks.
> >
> >The
differences in mounting are trivial.
> >
> >Mark
Wendlandt
> >'91RT/TT
> >www.mn3s.org
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:13:37 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Throttle body adjustment screw
Has anybody else blown out a
throttle body adjustment screw? I've never heard
of such a story
so I thought I'd relay mine...
The other day, I floored my car and heard
a noticable pop. The car started
running funny and whistled under boost
so I thought I blew off a hose because of
high boost. Well I opened the
hood and my buddy notices a big vacuum sound
coming from the throttle
body. There was a big open hole just above the
throttle position
sensor, the hole was threaded. We looked around for a plug or
screw but
couldn't find it, so he made a plug with a small bolt and
electrical
tape. I turned off my boost controller and it held fine up
to 6psi. I tried to
insert an 8mm and a 10mm bolt temporarily and
discovered that the hole is 9mm.
Anyway, I called Bill at Norco Mitsu to
ask if I could buy this screw or if I
had to buy the whole throttle body
which is what I feared. Off the top of his
head he said there is no
listing for the 3000GT, but there was a listing for the
Eclispe and they are
the same. Anyway, the screw and rubber O-ring arrived
yesterday.
It is plastic and lists for over $11! Bill charged me just over $1
for
the screw and $1 for the O-ring.
It is an idle adjustment screw. I
threaded it in all the way, but the car
barely idled until I backed it out
some.
Just a little FYI...
Ken
- --
I'm just driving this way
to piss you off!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San
Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #321
****************************
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info and FAQ, see our web page at http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm