--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #320
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence:
bulk
Team3S Digest
Thursday, October 28 1999 Volume 01 :
Number
320
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:21:59 +0100
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Team3S: turbo performance and reliability
Interesting threads on turbo
upgrades. A few comments and questions.
Jack stated that with the
standard upgrades, 9Bs will max out at around
410 SAE HP, 13Gs at 500 SAE HP
and 15Gs at 575 SAE HP. Impressive
indeed.
Dyno testing reveals
that 410 SAE HP is in fact an accurate estimate for
9B turbos with only a
boost controller. However, under the same
conditions, dyno testing also
indicates that 13Gs produce more torque
but about the same horsepower (boost
controller + exhaust). Both
systems could produce more boost, but not
without detonation (1.0 bar
seemed to be the limit for both).
Jack's
acceleration results certainly support his horsepower estimates,
but it begs
the question of reliability. Granted, all three cars tested
on the dyno
on 1 February had stock fuel systems; a stronger fuel pump,
larger injectors
and accompanying electronics may support increased
boost without detonation,
perhaps exaggerating the advantage of 13G
turbos.
But it seems to me
that the limiting factor will soon be internals, such
as rings and
seals. How is it possible that 13Gs could produce 500
reliable
horsepower and 15Gs 575+ reliable horsepower without internal
engine
modifications? I suppose there is a difference here between a 12
second
blast down the dragstrip and letting 'er rip for several minutes
at full
boost on the Autobahn, or even road racing. Are we talking
about
_sustained_ horsepower here?
Even though my car made 406 SAE HP on the
dyno, I can't say I'm
confident about pegging the throttle for long periods
on the Autobahn.
Mike's EGTs seem high, and as he has a freer-flowing
exhaust, I would
expect my temps to be higher yet. I would think
sustained EGT is a
major reason for stock Euro-spec VR-4s having larger
turbos and no
restrictive Tour exhaust option.
Here are my concerns,
in order:
1. reliability (lower EGTs? long term effects of higher
boost?)
2. drivability (excessive lag? flat spots? incurable
rough idle?)
3. performance (still stuck at 1.0 bar to avoid
detonation?)
4. convenience (constant dinking with the fuel
settings?)
Note that it seems like a lot of the big turbo,
high-horsepower folks
have inoperable vehicles most of the time. This
is not encouraging! I
am very interested in increasing performance, but
my Stealth is a
primary vehicle on which I must depend every day. I
want to smoke my
neighbor's new 400+ HP M5 _every damn day_ on the way to
work! :-) And
I have not forgotten the Type 996 911 Twin-Turbo
test mule that pulled
away from me back in June... (saw a GT3 over the
weekend but I was
driving my van!)
Survey: How many of you have been
pushing 500+ horsepower in your daily
driver for, say, 10,000+ miles without
any problems and with no
sacrifice in drivability?
TIA... -Jim
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Abex metallic
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:05:23 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
You were right!!! (was My Baby's Misfiring)
> After hours of research,
I finally found the problem. And the winner is ......
> # 4 - moisture in
the center rear plug well and at least an ounce of water in
> the left
rear plug well. What a pain in the ####!!! Why can't the rear plugs be
>
as easy to get to as the front ones
?!?!
===================================================
The fix may
not be as simple as drying the offending water --- the water
and ensuing
high voltage short can break down the insulation on the
plug wire and
require replacement of the wire. I'd definately do the
rear
one!!!
Jim Berry
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:16:04 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: You were right!!! (was My Baby's Misfiring)
> 4) Water in the
spark plug wells
> After hours of research, I finally found the problem.
And the winner is
......
> # 4 - moisture in the center rear plug well
and at least an ounce of water
in
> the left rear plug
well.
Great you found the problem ! I myself clean the ignition coil
connectors
with contact cleaner every second month as well as I clean the
wires and
plugs. The manual even states that the wires should not touch the
engine and
the stock looms should be used.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:57:53 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 9B, 13G, 15G relative performances
> I come back to Roger
Gerl's dyno runs which show his Euro-spec
> (13G) VR4 having a slightly
better torque curve but ~lower~
> overall horsepower compared to two
US-spec (9B) TT's dyno'd
> on the same day. This obviously conflicts
with your tremendous
> increases in trap speeds with the 13G upgrades on
your car.
First, Jack runned up to 17 psi compared to the 14.7 psi we did
on the dyno.
The 13G will then still be on a better efficiency island than
the 9B. Even
more, 12.7 are possible with the stock turbos when the pre-cats
are gutted
and a free-flowing exhaust is provided. The turbos will then have
a better
pressure between the turbine wheel and provide a better steady
boost.
Second, I guess Jack already had other intercoolers, that decrease
the
intake air and therefore provides more power and less detonation. Last
but
not least, I'm sure Jack runned racing fuel :-)
> What could
explain this? I've always offered the explanation which
> I
mentioned when Roger concluded from these dyno runs that exhaust
> mods do
not increase horsepower (on stock turbos): I think it might
> have
something to do with inadequate airflow (especially to the inter-
>
coolers) on the dyno. We've all been here before, so I'll just leave
it
> at that. :)
My temp reading just infront the throttle
body where 161°F on the dyno and
156°F on the street. There was only a day in
between with same ambient. I
think this means to me that the difference is
negligible.
The intake temp is definitely lowered with a larger
intercooler that finally
causes less detonation/knock and therefore also
causes less retard. My temp
dropped to 112°F with water injection
!
For "normal" boost of 15psi as well as the pre-cats still in place,
the
exhaust mods did not do anything to power ! BUT, the dp without a cat
helps
in better spool-up and therefore you gain in trap speed.... but
not
horsepower.
Adding then 13G will lower the discharge temperature
when running them at
the same level as the 9B. This should be seen on the
maps, but
interestingly, noone has maps for 9B, 13G or even 15G or 17G. I'm
pretty
sure, that the larger turbos will really benefit from opening up
the
exhaust.
> >15G are still unbeaten, both on motor and with
NOS; are capable of
> >125 mph quartermile / 575+ hp AT THE WHEELS no
NOS in my car,
> >with only piggyback computer mods/no
porting/enginework beyond the
> >boltons.
I agree that the 15G
would be the right solution and I would take them now
with what I know today.
The available stuff doesn't make any ECU mod
necessary. Even more, I found a
retarded timing with the first chipset and
it was somewhat less powerful as
the stock ECU !! I drove it for a few
hundered miles and I noticed that the
thing learned over at least 100 miles.
But milage dropped heavily even with
easy driving. I tried to compensate
with the ARC but with even conservative
fuel levels a lot of these expensive
juice was wasted
:-(
Roger,
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:00:56 -0600
From: "Palamara, Peter" <pala@gwl.com>
Subject: Team3S: FW: help
need part # for je pistons
If anyone has ordered the JE pistons for our
cars keeping the stock
compression and strengthened wrist pins keeping the
stock rods please email
me directly with that part number . Thanx
Please
make sure the ones you have are not the cheaper srp kind. Thanx
a
million.
92 3000 GTO S.C.
Soon to be exactly what the plates
say :)
Plates (HIPRESR)
1-800-888-gwla x4733
http://members.xoom.com/palamarap
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:13:33 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: NOS VR4
Having used NOS on my supra for a couple years (100Hp
dry shot) I feel that the
power output from NOS, when uses intelligently,
correctly, and with the proper
respect for the system (it can be complicated
on how to use it right given
different conditions) it is no more harmful on
your motor than what the same
amount of added boost would be.
Any
deviation from the 100% correct way to use NOS, can be damaging.
ANY
modifications made on a car get you closer and closer to the point where
you
will be at the edge of engineering tolerances on certain parts of a motor
or
drivetrain.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wallis, Gavin [mailto:WallisG@MWAA.com]
Sent: Wednesday,
October 27, 1999 8:47 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: NOS VR4
I hope Mr. JT will have the answer on this
one.
I've heard the question bumped around the list once or twice, but I
have
never really hard anything to definitive (if possible). What are
the
feelings on a fairly conservative (50hp) shot of NOS on our
VR-4s?
Should certain other mods be in place first?
Even though it may
not blow the engine up immediately, are there some long
term
considerations?
Is 50hp too conservative?
Thanks,
Gavin
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:30:36 -0700
From: Luis Interiano <Interian@oeaa.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Starter problems
Has anyone on the club ever worked on a 94 3K GT
starter, I think I might
have to this weekend. The car seems to start
without a problem but as soon
as it has cranked it makes a metal on metal
rubbing noise. The car only
makes the noise when it is cold and after
it has turned over. The noise
lasts for about a second. I was
told by a mechanic that the starter needs
to be replaced, he added that the
"bendex" is not recoiling.
I have little trust with this mechanic
since the problem only started after
they replaced the clutch (and in the
process scratched one of my chromed
rims with a screw driver). I don't
have a service manual for this car, so
any information would be greatly
appreciated.
Luis
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:40:07 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Starter problems
No..he sounds correct.
The starter
gear itself, isnt coming back into the starter when you relase the
key, and
its spininng up on the flywheel instead.
This will eventuall destroy the
starter, starter gear.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Luis
Interiano [mailto:Interian@oeaa.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, October 27, 1999 1:31 PM
To: Stealth-3000gt (E-mail)
Subject:
Team3S: Starter problems
Has anyone on the club ever worked on a 94
3K GT starter, I think I might
have to this weekend. The car seems to
start without a problem but as soon
as it has cranked it makes a metal on
metal rubbing noise. The car only
makes the noise when it is cold and
after it has turned over. The noise
lasts for about a second. I
was told by a mechanic that the starter needs
to be replaced, he added that
the "bendex" is not recoiling.
I have little trust with this
mechanic since the problem only started after
they replaced the clutch (and
in the process scratched one of my chromed
rims with a screw driver). I
don't have a service manual for this car, so
any information would be greatly
appreciated.
Luis
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:12:55 EDT
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Starter problems
Sounds like the starter solenoid is gone. On our
cars, the solenoid is
attached to the starter. If it is bad, it will
cause the starter gear to
either not recoil or recoil very slowly. If
that happens, the gear will stay
meshed with the flywheel and cause the
grinding sound you describe. It is
likely that, if you just had the
clutch replaced and you had no problems
before, the garage you took your car
to cracked or broke or cracked the
solenoid when taking the wires off or
replacing them. That area of the
solenoid can be
troublesome.
I don't know if you can replace the
solenoid only on our cars. I'd bet
not. In any event, I'd
replace the starter/solenoid as a pair.
Joe 91TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:12:37 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Starter problems
...and possibly the flywheel...
Sometimes
starters need to be shimmed for proper aligment. Took me years
(and
several starters) before this was pointed out to me. Most SHOPS
don't
even do this...
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Mohler, Jeff
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 1:40 PM
>
To: 'Luis Interiano'; Stealth-3000gt (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: Team3S:
Starter problems
>
>
> No..he sounds correct.
>
>
The starter gear itself, isnt coming back into the starter when
> you
relase the
> key, and its spininng up on the flywheel
instead.
>
> This will eventuall destroy the starter, starter
gear.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:55:46 -0400
From: "Kevin" <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Over Boost
First some background.
- -1991 Stealth TT
-
-Just finished the 60,000 mile service myself plus gutted the cats
and
pre-cats
- -Temp is around 45 deg. F colder than I have ever driven
the car. (had it
less than a year)
- -Blitz SSBC
Now the fun
part. I can not get the boost down...... I only ran the car up
to
about 4500 RPM but it goes up to 1.1 bar and nothing I do on the
controller
helps. I turned the gain all the way down, turned the knobs all
the way
down and even shut the thing off. Can't figure it out for the life
of
me. I checked all the hoses, everything seems tight. I do notice a
big
difference in spool up time since I gutted the cats.... much quicker
now.
Could I have damaged the waste gate when I gutted the rear
pre-cat? Is it
that cold that I am just getting that much boost?
I am going out now to
unplug the solenoid and see if it goes down to 6psi
where is should be.
Maybe the line going to the boost controller is loose or
cut.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Kevin
Schappell
Auto Answers
http://www.PACarSearch.com
If you love
cars, check out
http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead
-
------------Still under construction---------------
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:09:31 -0400
From: "Kevin" <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Over Boost fixed.... muffler question
Ok,
I figured it out myself. :-) The line from the Y-pipe to the bottom
of
the solenoid was half off. It looked like it was connected but when
I
tugged on it, it came off. All is well and the car runs like a
dream. I
don't know how it ran from the showroom since I bought it
used, but it's
running better than it ever has.
I
notice a little more rumble from the exhaust since the cats are no
longer
there, but I want more. Anyone ever try changing just the mufflers
to
say Flowmaster's or Super Traps? I know Flowmaster's will drone but
I
like them, I have no experience with the Super Traps.
Kevin
Schappell
Auto Answers
http://www.PACarSearch.com
If you love
cars, check out
http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead
-
------------Still under construction---------------
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: Kevin <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, October 27, 1999 10:55 PM
Subject: Team3S: Over
Boost
> First some background.
> -1991 Stealth TT
>
-Just finished the 60,000 mile service myself plus gutted the cats and
>
pre-cats
> -Temp is around 45 deg. F colder than I have ever driven the
car. (had it
> less than a year)
> -Blitz SSBC
> Now the fun
part. I can not get the boost down...... I only ran the
car
up
> to about 4500 RPM but it goes up to 1.1 bar and nothing I do
on the
> controller helps. I turned the gain all the way down,
turned the knobs
all
> the way down and even shut the thing off.
Can't figure it out for the
life
> of me. I checked all the
hoses, everything seems tight. I do notice a
big
> difference in
spool up time since I gutted the cats.... much quicker now.
> Could I have
damaged the waste gate when I gutted the rear pre-cat? Is it
> that
cold that I am just getting that much boost? I am going out now to
>
unplug the solenoid and see if it goes down to 6psi where is should be.
>
Maybe the line going to the boost controller is loose or cut.
>
>
Any ideas would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Kevin Schappell
>
Auto Answers
> http://www.PACarSearch.com
> If you
love cars, check out
> http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead
>
------------Still under construction---------------
>
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:08:25 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Over Boost fixed.... muffler question
Mufflers? What
mufflers?
3" custom dual 'Y' pipe in back here, we still have all 3 cats,
but on our
stealthTT we had none, was a nice sound (if yer into
that)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Kevin [mailto:Kevin@pacarsearch.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, October 27, 1999 9:10 PM
To: Kevin; stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Over Boost fixed.... muffler question
Ok, I figured it out myself. :-) The line from the Y-pipe to the
bottom
of the solenoid was half off. It looked like it was connected
but when I
tugged on it, it came off. All is well and the car runs like
a dream. I
don't know how it ran from the showroom since I bought it
used, but it's
running better than it ever has.
I
notice a little more rumble from the exhaust since the cats are no
longer
there, but I want more. Anyone ever try changing just the mufflers
to
say Flowmaster's or Super Traps? I know Flowmaster's will drone but
I
like them, I have no experience with the Super Traps.
Kevin
Schappell
Auto Answers
http://www.PACarSearch.com
If you love
cars, check out
http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead
-
------------Still under construction---------------
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: Kevin <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent:
Wednesday, October 27, 1999 10:55 PM
Subject: Team3S: Over
Boost
> First some background.
> -1991 Stealth TT
>
-Just finished the 60,000 mile service myself plus gutted the cats and
>
pre-cats
> -Temp is around 45 deg. F colder than I have ever driven the
car. (had it
> less than a year)
> -Blitz SSBC
> Now the fun
part. I can not get the boost down...... I only ran the
car
up
> to about 4500 RPM but it goes up to 1.1 bar and nothing I do
on the
> controller helps. I turned the gain all the way down,
turned the knobs
all
> the way down and even shut the thing off.
Can't figure it out for the
life
> of me. I checked all the
hoses, everything seems tight. I do notice a
big
> difference in
spool up time since I gutted the cats.... much quicker now.
> Could I have
damaged the waste gate when I gutted the rear pre-cat? Is it
> that
cold that I am just getting that much boost? I am going out now to
>
unplug the solenoid and see if it goes down to 6psi where is should be.
>
Maybe the line going to the boost controller is loose or cut.
>
>
Any ideas would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Kevin Schappell
>
Auto Answers
> http://www.PACarSearch.com
> If you
love cars, check out
> http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead
>
------------Still under construction---------------
>
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:25:14 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Cracked rotor pictures
Hey everyone,
I've got some
pictures of Oskar's cracked rotor from his racing at Brainard
International
Speedway. It is at:
http://www.mn3s.org/brainard-racing99.html
There
is also a picture of his melted Stillen Metal Matrix pads, on that
same
page.
later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:48:35 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: REAL
Underdrive Dampeners Available!
REAL underdrive harmonic dampeners, that
ACTUALLY DAMPEN
harmonics like the stock crankshaft dampener (unlike
the junk IMO
Unorthodox "PULLEY") are newly available
from
Dave Buschur in Ohio! I had prodded him into making them, and
they
have taken a long time to get made, but here we are...
They are
NHRA legal so if any weenies complain you are going too fast
with stock
dampener you can tell them to shut their pieholes.
Because are
underdrive, the require a slightly shorter pulley belt,
which
will have to
be determined (Dave doesn't have a 3000/Stealth there to
model it
on).
I am getting mine; there are 4 more available/in stock now;
I'd
suggest Art Shevack, Mike Mahaffey, and the other leading
edge people
consider it for sure; and anybody wanting an
underdrive that still does the
MAIN job, DAMPENING!
Cost is about $345 or so, very reasonable for such a
device
especially custom...
Save Your Crank and Bearings by contacting
Dave at
website buschurracing.com
phone
1-440-839-1900
Tell him I sent you, gives me a gold star
Jack
Tertadian
Atomic Motorsports :)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:50:34 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Cracked rotor pictures
>
>I've got some pictures of
Oskar's cracked rotor from his racing at Brainard
>International
Speedway. It is at:
>http://www.mn3s.org/brainard-racing99.html
>
That's
EXACTLY how my PowerSlots broke. I bet the original rotors came
from
the same source.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me!
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:24:38 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 9B, 13G, 15G relative performances
"R.G." wrote:
>
First, Jack runned up to 17 psi compared to the 14.7 psi we did on the
dyno.
> The 13G will then still be on a better efficiency island than the
9B. [snip]
> Second, I guess Jack already had other intercoolers, that
decrease the
> intake air and therefore provides more power and less
detonation. Last but
> not least, I'm sure Jack runned racing fuel
:-)
If these things combined could add ~50hp, then you definitely have a
point. :)
> > have something to do with inadequate airflow
(especially to the inter-
> > coolers) on the dyno. We've all
been here before, so I'll just leave it
> > at that.
:)
>
> My temp reading just infront the throttle body where 161°F on
the dyno and
> 156°F on the street. There was only a day in between with
same ambient. I
> think this means to me that the difference is
negligible.
This seems to disagree with two points made by Mike Chapleski
back
on August 5th:
>>4) During our dyno runs the ambient was 50
F deg the intake temp at the
>>start of my dyno was 104 deg F and the
intake peak after about 20 seconds
>>of running at 12 psi was 224 deg
F!!! So I do think that the fan was not
>>very effective.
However, I cannot compare this to the real world, because
>>I have not
been able to find the proper hill where I can maintain 12 psi
of
>>boost in fourth gear. The most I have been able to maintain
was about 10
>>seconds which resulted in a peak of 139 deg F.
I
would not consider this difference negligible, and Mike also attributed it
to
the effectiveness of the fan. Maybe the numbers you mentioned
above
(161F and 156F) are temps at idle or at steady cruising? There
must be
a reason why Mike had such different readings.
Here's
something else Mike wrote which again brings up the issue that
the car must
be moving in order for the engine and air charge temps to
sufficiently
decrease. Thus, letting the car idle with the hood open is
not
enough:
>>3) If I turn off the car, after fully heating up,
let it sit 10-15 minutes, then
>>start it back up, the intake temp is
about 20-25 deg above ambient and it
>>takes about 10 minutes of
HIGHWAY driving to get it back down to 10
>>degrees difference.
For dragracers that let their cars sit between runs, this
>>is
something that you should REALLY be monitoring.
> The intake temp is
definitely lowered with a larger intercooler that finally
> causes less
detonation/knock and therefore also causes less retard. My temp
> dropped
to 112°F with water injection!
That is very impressive
indeed.
> For "normal" boost of 15psi as well as the pre-cats still in
place, the
> exhaust mods did not do anything to power ! BUT, the dp
without a cat helps
> in better spool-up and therefore you gain in trap
speed.... but not
> horsepower.
We'll never know for sure until
somebody makes runs at the track on
the same day with and without the
catalytic/exhaust system. They could
throw 75lbs weight in the car so
that any differences won't be due to
weight. Better spoolup should get
you off the line quicker, but I don't
think that by itself would increase
trapspeeds because the rest of the
run is full throttle (near redline)
anyways.
> interestingly, noone has maps for 9B, 13G or even 15G or
17G.
That's too bad. Maybe TEC can provide them to somebody so
we
can study them.
> I agree that the 15G would be the right
solution and I would take them now
> with what I know today. The available
stuff doesn't make any ECU mod
> necessary. Even more, I found a retarded
timing with the first chipset and
> it was somewhat less powerful as the
stock ECU !!
Maybe you might consider going back to the stock ECU?
I'm really
wondering how well the gtpro turbos like your 368s (or the 355s
which
Brian says are better than 15Gs) will compare to the 15Gs. I
guess
I'll just have to wait and see.
- --Errin
For
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:03:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Andrew C. Ohnstad" <andy@andysaudio.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Dumb Question, but curious
Radar should not be a problem.
Removing the front plate is not gonna
help you much against radar.
Radar needs any big surface to bounce off
of and our cars certainally provide
that.
Laser on the other hand is a different story. Without a front
licence
plate you're denying the officer the flat surface he needs to get a
lazer
reading. Of course nothing to keep them from shooting your rear
licence
plate after you've passed, assuming they were hidden well enough that
you
wouldn't have had time to slow down.
If your city/state uses
primarially radar then you're about screwed. Get
a good detector and be
careful. Radar jammers fall into two categorys,
those that don't work,
and those that are illegeal.
Laser, on the other hand can be sucessfully
jammed legally. I don't
remember right now (but I can find) a couple
sources for legal laser
jammers that work very well. There was one
jammer in particular (which I
used to run on my car in Maryland, which is
almost exclusivley laser)
which would not even give a reading to a lazer gun
fired point blank at
it. Again, the rear of the car is unprotected so
if the officer is well
hidden you're busted.
=-=Andrew
(ex-cop)
"Traveling At The Speed of Thought" --- Teenage FanClub
'94
Mitsubishi 3000 GT -- Eclipse, Boston Acoustics, Rockford Power
On Sun,
24 Oct 1999, Rah wrote:
> Hello all,
>
Recently I took the front license plate off my 93 Stealth RT, now
> that
plate is required in my state so hush-hush. I know from people
>
I've seen on the road that it's not unusual at
all.
> The real question, not to get my or anybody
elses hopes up, but I
> can't help but wonder how well a police officer
can get a radar signal
> off of this car. From my experience in
another car club, and
> information an ex-military man was able to give me
on how radar requires
> a very specific reflection, it does make you
wonder.
>
> Anybody know? Anyone put a gun to it and found
out? I'm not relying on
> it yet, but it'd be interesting to know
what y'all think,
>
> --Rich
>
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:09:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Andrew C. Ohnstad" <andy@andysaudio.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Dumb Question, but curious
On Sun, 24 Oct 1999, Benson "elmagoo"
Russell wrote:
> determine (or rather GUESS) which car was doing the
returned speed. One
> fact to note though is that big vehicles
(trucks in other words) will ALWAYS
> return the strongest signal no
matter what. So if a trucks doing 50, and
> you zip buy at 80, he'll
get a 50 reading because the trucks return signal
> is much
stronger. This is another reason why you should always ask to see
>
the gun reading for yourself when they pull you over (I've heard of cops
>
trying to pull a fast one where they didn't even clock you at all). If
they
> refuse, you make them write that on the ticket and point that one
out to the
> judge :).
Yup, and another variation on the theme is
moving radar. It basically
shoots out two radar pulses and attempts to
figure out how fast the
cruiser is going and how fast you are going. It
relies on the fact that
there will be a sign, overpass, building, something
which is not moving to
provide the reference for the cruiser's speed.
If the officer is using
moving radar and is anywhere near a tractor trailer,
rv, etc. the radar
unit will not be able to figure out the crusier's speed
and give the
officer a reading well over 150mph. Most officers know
better but there
are always a few new/overenthusiastic guys out there, and
sure, our cars
WILL do 150. :)
> another little trick of note that
I read in Car and Driver a long ways back
> on ways to defeat laser radar
when they were first introduced. One method
> they came up with and
tested is to put an extremely high candle-watt powered
> light (like the
ones the cops use) on the front of your car near the lisence
> plate
(because that's where they aim their laser guns due to the lisence
>
plates highly reflective surface). Aim it forward, and then put an
>
infra-red filter on it (so it blocks all spectrum of light except ir).
This
The lazer jammers that I discussed basically do this, but in a
pulsing,
"strobe light" method. As I said there was one that worked
REALLY well.
=-=Andrew
"Traveling At The Speed of Thought" ---
Teenage FanClub
'94 Mitsubishi 3000 GT -- Eclipse, Boston Acoustics, Rockford
Power
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:46:41 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Re: REAL
Underdrive Dampeners Available!
Sounds like a worthwhile investment to
me.
Tks.
Arty
In a message dated 10/28/99 6:52:27 AM Pacific
Daylight Time,
xwing@execpc.com
writes:
<< Subj: REAL Underdrive Dampeners
Available!
Date: 10/28/99 6:52:27 AM Pacific Daylight
Time
From: xwing@execpc.com
(xwing)
Reply-to: xwing@execpc.com
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
(Sirius 3000GT Mail List),
stealth@starnet.net (stealth@starnet.net)
REAL
underdrive harmonic dampeners, that ACTUALLY DAMPEN
harmonics like the
stock crankshaft dampener (unlike the junk IMO
Unorthodox
"PULLEY") are newly available from
Dave Buschur in Ohio! I had
prodded him into making them, and they
have taken a long time to get
made, but here we are...
They are NHRA legal so if any
weenies complain you are going too fast
with stock dampener you can
tell them to shut their pieholes.
Because are underdrive, the
require a slightly shorter pulley belt,
which
will have to be
determined (Dave doesn't have a 3000/Stealth there to
model it
on).
I am getting mine; there are 4 more available/in stock
now; I'd
suggest Art Shevack, Mike Mahaffey, and the other
leading
edge people consider it for sure; and anybody wanting
an
underdrive that still does the MAIN job, DAMPENING!
Cost is
about $345 or so, very reasonable for such a device
especially
custom...
Save Your Crank and Bearings by contacting Dave
at
website
buschurracing.com
phone
1-440-839-1900
>>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:53:13 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Methanol -
Opinions
Has anyone (Dr. J.T) considered using Methanol ?
Arty
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:23:08 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: "New" Improved
lifters 4 sale
I had just bought a full set (24) of the new improved
lifters for my 91 VR-4.
These fit any year car. These are improved with
larger oiling holes to
prevent clogging and lifter noise. They are new still
UNOPENED in the bag
from Talla Mitsu. I''d rather sell them then return
them. Anybody interested
I'll take a fast $225. and I'll ship too.
BTW, I
ended up needing solid lifters to achieve the 1000HP I was after.
Arty 91
VR-4
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:51:31 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Methanol - Opinions
For some reason I seem to remember something
about needing a little more
than 2 times of the amount of methanol verses
gasoline to create a
Stoichiometric A/F ratio. Though, I would imagine
it burns A LOT cooler. I
would check out some books on the subject,
might be worth looking into for a
full race prepped car.
John
Basol
System Management Services
-----Original
Message-----
From: Aso8@aol.com [SMTP:Aso8@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday,
October 28, 1999 11:53 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Cc:
Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Methanol -
Opinions
Has anyone (Dr. J.T) considered using Methanol ?
Arty
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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------------------------------
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