--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #320
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest        Thursday, October 28 1999        Volume 01 : Number 320




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:21:59 +0100
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Team3S: turbo performance and reliability

Interesting threads on turbo upgrades.  A few comments and questions.

Jack stated that with the standard upgrades, 9Bs will max out at around
410 SAE HP, 13Gs at 500 SAE HP and 15Gs at 575 SAE HP.  Impressive
indeed.

Dyno testing reveals that 410 SAE HP is in fact an accurate estimate for
9B turbos with only a boost controller.  However, under the same
conditions, dyno testing also indicates that 13Gs produce more torque
but about the same horsepower (boost controller + exhaust).  Both
systems could produce more boost, but not without detonation (1.0 bar
seemed to be the limit for both).

Jack's acceleration results certainly support his horsepower estimates,
but it begs the question of reliability.  Granted, all three cars tested
on the dyno on 1 February had stock fuel systems; a stronger fuel pump,
larger injectors and accompanying electronics may support increased
boost without detonation, perhaps exaggerating the advantage of 13G
turbos.

But it seems to me that the limiting factor will soon be internals, such
as rings and seals.  How is it possible that 13Gs could produce 500
reliable horsepower and 15Gs 575+ reliable horsepower without internal
engine modifications?  I suppose there is a difference here between a 12
second blast down the dragstrip and letting 'er rip for several minutes
at full boost on the Autobahn, or even road racing.  Are we talking
about _sustained_ horsepower here?

Even though my car made 406 SAE HP on the dyno, I can't say I'm
confident about pegging the throttle for long periods on the Autobahn.
Mike's EGTs seem high, and as he has a freer-flowing exhaust, I would
expect my temps to be higher yet.  I would think sustained EGT is a
major reason for stock Euro-spec VR-4s having larger turbos and no
restrictive Tour exhaust option.

Here are my concerns, in order:

1. reliability (lower EGTs?  long term effects of higher boost?)
2. drivability (excessive lag?  flat spots?  incurable rough idle?)
3. performance (still stuck at 1.0 bar to avoid detonation?)
4. convenience (constant dinking with the fuel settings?)


Note that it seems like a lot of the big turbo, high-horsepower folks
have inoperable vehicles most of the time.  This is not encouraging!  I
am very interested in increasing performance, but my Stealth is a
primary vehicle on which I must depend every day.  I want to smoke my
neighbor's new 400+ HP M5 _every damn day_ on the way to work!  :-)  And
I have not forgotten the Type 996 911 Twin-Turbo test mule that pulled
away from me back in June... (saw a GT3 over the weekend but I was
driving my van!)

Survey: How many of you have been pushing 500+ horsepower in your daily
driver for, say, 10,000+ miles without any problems and with no
sacrifice in drivability?

TIA... -Jim
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Abex metallic brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:05:23 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: You were right!!! (was My Baby's Misfiring)

> After hours of research, I finally found the problem. And the winner is ......
> # 4 - moisture in the center rear plug well and at least an ounce of water in
> the left rear plug well. What a pain in the ####!!! Why can't the rear plugs be
> as easy to get to as the front ones ?!?!
===================================================

The fix may not be as simple as drying the offending water --- the water
and ensuing high voltage short can break down the insulation on the
plug wire  and require replacement of the wire. I'd definately do the
rear one!!!


   Jim Berry

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:16:04 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: You were right!!! (was My Baby's Misfiring)

> 4) Water in the spark plug wells
> After hours of research, I finally found the problem. And the winner is
......
> # 4 - moisture in the center rear plug well and at least an ounce of water
in
> the left rear plug well.

Great you found the problem ! I myself clean the ignition coil connectors
with contact cleaner every second month as well as I clean the wires and
plugs. The manual even states that the wires should not touch the engine and
the stock looms should be used.

Roger
93'3000GT TT

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:57:53 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 9B, 13G, 15G relative performances

> I come back to Roger Gerl's dyno runs which show his Euro-spec
> (13G) VR4 having a slightly better torque curve but ~lower~
> overall horsepower compared to two US-spec (9B) TT's dyno'd
> on the same day.  This obviously conflicts with your tremendous
> increases in trap speeds with the 13G upgrades on your car.

First, Jack runned up to 17 psi compared to the 14.7 psi we did on the dyno.
The 13G will then still be on a better efficiency island than the 9B. Even
more, 12.7 are possible with the stock turbos when the pre-cats are gutted
and a free-flowing exhaust is provided. The turbos will then have a better
pressure between the turbine wheel and provide a better steady boost.
Second, I guess Jack already had other intercoolers, that decrease the
intake air and therefore provides more power and less detonation. Last but
not least, I'm sure Jack runned racing fuel :-)

> What could explain this?  I've always offered the explanation which
> I mentioned when Roger concluded from these dyno runs that exhaust
> mods do not increase horsepower (on stock turbos):  I think it might
> have something to do with inadequate airflow (especially to the inter-
> coolers) on the dyno.  We've all been here before, so I'll just leave it
> at that.  :)

My temp reading just infront the throttle body where 161°F on the dyno and
156°F on the street. There was only a day in between with same ambient. I
think this means to me that the difference is negligible.

The intake temp is definitely lowered with a larger intercooler that finally
causes less detonation/knock and therefore also causes less retard. My temp
dropped to 112°F with water injection !

For "normal" boost of 15psi as well as the pre-cats still in place, the
exhaust mods did not do anything to power ! BUT, the dp without a cat helps
in better spool-up and therefore you gain in trap speed.... but not
horsepower.

Adding then 13G will lower the discharge temperature when running them at
the same level as the 9B. This should be seen on the maps, but
interestingly, noone has maps for 9B, 13G or even 15G or 17G. I'm pretty
sure, that the larger turbos will really benefit from opening up the
exhaust.

> >15G are still unbeaten, both on motor and with NOS; are capable of
> >125 mph quartermile / 575+ hp AT THE WHEELS no NOS in my car,
> >with only piggyback computer mods/no porting/enginework beyond the
> >boltons.

I agree that the 15G would be the right solution and I would take them now
with what I know today. The available stuff doesn't make any ECU mod
necessary. Even more, I found a retarded timing with the first chipset and
it was somewhat less powerful as the stock ECU !! I drove it for a few
hundered miles and I noticed that the thing learned over at least 100 miles.
But milage dropped heavily even with easy driving. I tried to compensate
with the ARC but with even conservative fuel levels a lot of these expensive
juice was wasted :-(

Roger,
93'3000GT TT


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:00:56 -0600
From: "Palamara, Peter" <pala@gwl.com>
Subject: Team3S: FW: help need part # for je pistons

If anyone has ordered the JE pistons for our cars keeping the stock
compression and strengthened wrist pins keeping the stock rods please email
me directly with that part number . Thanx
Please make sure the ones you have are not the cheaper srp kind. Thanx a
million.


92 3000 GTO S.C.
Soon to be exactly what the plates say :)
Plates (HIPRESR)
1-800-888-gwla x4733
http://members.xoom.com/palamarap

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:13:33 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: NOS VR4

Having used NOS on my supra for a couple years (100Hp dry shot) I feel that the
power output from NOS, when uses intelligently, correctly, and with the proper
respect for the system (it can be complicated on how to use it right given
different conditions) it is no more harmful on your motor than what the same
amount of added boost would be.

Any deviation from the 100% correct way to use NOS, can be damaging.

ANY modifications made on a car get you closer and closer to the point where you
will be at the edge of engineering tolerances on certain parts of a motor or
drivetrain.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Wallis, Gavin [mailto:WallisG@MWAA.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 8:47 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: NOS VR4


I hope Mr. JT will have the answer on this one.

I've heard the question bumped around the list once or twice, but I have
never really hard anything to definitive (if possible). What are the
feelings on a fairly conservative (50hp) shot of NOS on our VR-4s?

Should certain other mods be in place first?
Even though it may not blow the engine up immediately, are there some long
term considerations?
Is 50hp too conservative?

Thanks,
Gavin
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:30:36 -0700
From: Luis Interiano <Interian@oeaa.com>
Subject: Team3S: Starter problems

Has anyone on the club ever worked on a 94 3K GT starter, I think I might
have to this weekend.  The car seems to start without a problem but as soon
as it has cranked it makes a metal on metal rubbing noise.  The car only
makes the noise when it is cold and after it has turned over.  The noise
lasts for about a second.  I was told by a mechanic that the starter needs
to be replaced, he added that the "bendex" is not recoiling. 

I have little trust with this mechanic since the problem only started after
they replaced the clutch (and in the process scratched one of my chromed
rims with a screw driver).  I don't have a service manual for this car, so
any information would be greatly appreciated.

Luis
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:40:07 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Starter problems

No..he sounds correct.

The starter gear itself, isnt coming back into the starter when you relase the
key, and its spininng up on the flywheel instead.

This will eventuall destroy the starter, starter gear.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Luis Interiano [mailto:Interian@oeaa.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 1:31 PM
To: Stealth-3000gt (E-mail)
Subject: Team3S: Starter problems


Has anyone on the club ever worked on a 94 3K GT starter, I think I might
have to this weekend.  The car seems to start without a problem but as soon
as it has cranked it makes a metal on metal rubbing noise.  The car only
makes the noise when it is cold and after it has turned over.  The noise
lasts for about a second.  I was told by a mechanic that the starter needs
to be replaced, he added that the "bendex" is not recoiling. 

I have little trust with this mechanic since the problem only started after
they replaced the clutch (and in the process scratched one of my chromed
rims with a screw driver).  I don't have a service manual for this car, so
any information would be greatly appreciated.

Luis
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:12:55 EDT
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Starter problems

Sounds like the starter solenoid is gone.  On our cars, the solenoid is
attached to the starter.  If it is bad, it will cause the starter gear to
either not recoil or recoil very slowly.  If that happens, the gear will stay
meshed with the flywheel and cause the grinding sound you describe.  It is
likely that, if you just had the clutch replaced and you had no problems
before, the garage you took your car to cracked or broke or cracked the
solenoid when taking the wires off or replacing them.  That area of the
solenoid can be troublesome.

    I don't know if you can replace the solenoid only on our cars.  I'd bet
not.  In any event, I'd replace the starter/solenoid as a pair.

Joe 91TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:12:37 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Starter problems

...and possibly the flywheel...

Sometimes starters need to be shimmed for proper aligment.  Took me years
(and several starters) before this was pointed out to me.  Most SHOPS don't
even do this...


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> [mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Mohler, Jeff
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 1:40 PM
> To: 'Luis Interiano'; Stealth-3000gt (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Starter problems
>
>
> No..he sounds correct.
>
> The starter gear itself, isnt coming back into the starter when
> you relase the
> key, and its spininng up on the flywheel instead.
>
> This will eventuall destroy the starter, starter gear.


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:55:46 -0400
From: "Kevin" <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject: Team3S: Over Boost

First some background.
- -1991 Stealth TT
- -Just finished the 60,000 mile service myself plus gutted the cats and
pre-cats
- -Temp is around 45 deg. F colder than I have ever driven the car. (had it
less than a year)
- -Blitz SSBC
Now the fun part.  I can not get the boost down......  I only ran the car up
to about 4500 RPM but it goes up to 1.1 bar and nothing I do on the
controller helps.  I turned the gain all the way down, turned the knobs all
the way down and even shut the thing off.  Can't figure it out for the life
of me.  I checked all the hoses, everything seems tight.  I do notice a big
difference in spool up time since I gutted the cats.... much quicker now.
Could I have damaged the waste gate when I gutted the rear pre-cat?  Is it
that cold that I am just getting that much boost?  I am going out now to
unplug the solenoid and see if it goes down to 6psi where is should be.
Maybe the line going to the boost controller is loose or cut.

Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Kevin Schappell
Auto Answers
http://www.PACarSearch.com
If you love cars, check out
http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead
- ------------Still under construction---------------

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:09:31 -0400
From: "Kevin" <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Over Boost fixed.... muffler question

    Ok, I figured it out myself. :-)  The line from the Y-pipe to the bottom
of the solenoid was half off.  It looked like it was connected but when I
tugged on it, it came off.  All is well and the car runs like a dream.  I
don't know how it ran from the showroom since I bought it used, but it's
running better than it ever has.
    I notice a little more rumble from the exhaust since the cats are no
longer there, but I want more.  Anyone ever try changing just the mufflers
to say Flowmaster's or Super Traps?  I know Flowmaster's will drone but I
like them, I have no experience with the Super Traps.

Kevin Schappell
Auto Answers
http://www.PACarSearch.com
If you love cars, check out
http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead
- ------------Still under construction---------------
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 10:55 PM
Subject: Team3S: Over Boost


> First some background.
> -1991 Stealth TT
> -Just finished the 60,000 mile service myself plus gutted the cats and
> pre-cats
> -Temp is around 45 deg. F colder than I have ever driven the car. (had it
> less than a year)
> -Blitz SSBC
> Now the fun part.  I can not get the boost down......  I only ran the car
up
> to about 4500 RPM but it goes up to 1.1 bar and nothing I do on the
> controller helps.  I turned the gain all the way down, turned the knobs
all
> the way down and even shut the thing off.  Can't figure it out for the
life
> of me.  I checked all the hoses, everything seems tight.  I do notice a
big
> difference in spool up time since I gutted the cats.... much quicker now.
> Could I have damaged the waste gate when I gutted the rear pre-cat?  Is it
> that cold that I am just getting that much boost?  I am going out now to
> unplug the solenoid and see if it goes down to 6psi where is should be.
> Maybe the line going to the boost controller is loose or cut.
>
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Kevin Schappell
> Auto Answers
> http://www.PACarSearch.com
> If you love cars, check out
> http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead
> ------------Still under construction---------------
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:08:25 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Over Boost fixed.... muffler question

Mufflers?  What mufflers?

3" custom dual 'Y' pipe in back here, we still have all 3 cats, but on our
stealthTT we had none, was a nice sound (if yer into that)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Kevin [mailto:Kevin@pacarsearch.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 9:10 PM
To: Kevin; stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Over Boost fixed.... muffler question


    Ok, I figured it out myself. :-)  The line from the Y-pipe to the bottom
of the solenoid was half off.  It looked like it was connected but when I
tugged on it, it came off.  All is well and the car runs like a dream.  I
don't know how it ran from the showroom since I bought it used, but it's
running better than it ever has.
    I notice a little more rumble from the exhaust since the cats are no
longer there, but I want more.  Anyone ever try changing just the mufflers
to say Flowmaster's or Super Traps?  I know Flowmaster's will drone but I
like them, I have no experience with the Super Traps.

Kevin Schappell
Auto Answers
http://www.PACarSearch.com
If you love cars, check out
http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead
- ------------Still under construction---------------
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 10:55 PM
Subject: Team3S: Over Boost


> First some background.
> -1991 Stealth TT
> -Just finished the 60,000 mile service myself plus gutted the cats and
> pre-cats
> -Temp is around 45 deg. F colder than I have ever driven the car. (had it
> less than a year)
> -Blitz SSBC
> Now the fun part.  I can not get the boost down......  I only ran the car
up
> to about 4500 RPM but it goes up to 1.1 bar and nothing I do on the
> controller helps.  I turned the gain all the way down, turned the knobs
all
> the way down and even shut the thing off.  Can't figure it out for the
life
> of me.  I checked all the hoses, everything seems tight.  I do notice a
big
> difference in spool up time since I gutted the cats.... much quicker now.
> Could I have damaged the waste gate when I gutted the rear pre-cat?  Is it
> that cold that I am just getting that much boost?  I am going out now to
> unplug the solenoid and see if it goes down to 6psi where is should be.
> Maybe the line going to the boost controller is loose or cut.
>
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Kevin Schappell
> Auto Answers
> http://www.PACarSearch.com
> If you love cars, check out
> http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead
> ------------Still under construction---------------
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:25:14 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Cracked rotor pictures

Hey everyone,

I've got some pictures of Oskar's cracked rotor from his racing at Brainard
International Speedway.  It is at:

http://www.mn3s.org/brainard-racing99.html

There is also a picture of his melted Stillen Metal Matrix pads, on that
same page.

later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:48:35 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!

REAL underdrive harmonic dampeners, that ACTUALLY DAMPEN
harmonics like the stock crankshaft dampener (unlike the  junk  IMO
Unorthodox "PULLEY") are newly available from
Dave Buschur in Ohio!  I had prodded him into making them, and they
have taken a long time to get made, but here we are...

They are NHRA legal so if any weenies complain you are going too fast
with stock dampener you can tell them to shut their pieholes.

Because are underdrive, the require a slightly shorter pulley belt,
which
will have to be determined (Dave doesn't have a 3000/Stealth there to
model it on).

I am getting mine; there are 4 more available/in stock now; I'd
suggest Art Shevack, Mike Mahaffey, and the other leading
edge people consider it for sure; and anybody wanting an
underdrive that still does the MAIN job, DAMPENING!
Cost is about $345 or so, very reasonable for such a device
especially custom...
Save Your Crank and Bearings by contacting Dave at
website  buschurracing.com
phone     1-440-839-1900

Tell him I sent you, gives me a gold star
Jack Tertadian
Atomic Motorsports  :)

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:50:34 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Cracked rotor pictures

>
>I've got some pictures of Oskar's cracked rotor from his racing at Brainard
>International Speedway.  It is at:
>http://www.mn3s.org/brainard-racing99.html
>
That's EXACTLY how my PowerSlots broke.  I bet the original rotors came
from the same source.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me!


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:24:38 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 9B, 13G, 15G relative performances

"R.G." wrote:

> First, Jack runned up to 17 psi compared to the 14.7 psi we did on the dyno.
> The 13G will then still be on a better efficiency island than the 9B. [snip]
> Second, I guess Jack already had other intercoolers, that decrease the
> intake air and therefore provides more power and less detonation. Last but
> not least, I'm sure Jack runned racing fuel :-)

If these things combined could add ~50hp, then you definitely have a point.  :)

> > have something to do with inadequate airflow (especially to the inter-
> > coolers) on the dyno.  We've all been here before, so I'll just leave it
> > at that.  :)
>
> My temp reading just infront the throttle body where 161°F on the dyno and
> 156°F on the street. There was only a day in between with same ambient. I
> think this means to me that the difference is negligible.

This seems to disagree with two points made by Mike Chapleski back
on August 5th:

>>4) During our dyno runs the ambient was 50 F deg the intake temp at the
>>start of my dyno was 104 deg F and the intake peak after about 20 seconds
>>of running at 12 psi was 224 deg F!!!  So I do think that the fan was not
>>very effective.  However, I cannot compare this to the real world, because
>>I have not been able to find the proper hill where I can maintain 12 psi of
>>boost in fourth gear.  The most I have been able to maintain was about 10
>>seconds which resulted in a peak of 139 deg F.

I would not consider this difference negligible, and Mike also attributed it
to the effectiveness of the fan.  Maybe the numbers you mentioned above
(161F and 156F) are temps at idle or at steady cruising?  There must be
a reason why Mike had such different readings.

Here's something else Mike wrote which again brings up the issue that
the car must be moving in order for the engine and air charge temps to
sufficiently decrease.  Thus, letting the car idle with the hood open is
not enough:

>>3)  If I turn off the car, after fully heating up, let it sit 10-15 minutes, then
>>start it back up, the intake temp is about 20-25 deg above ambient and it
>>takes about 10 minutes of HIGHWAY driving to get it back down to 10
>>degrees difference.  For dragracers that let their cars sit between runs, this
>>is something that you should REALLY be monitoring.

> The intake temp is definitely lowered with a larger intercooler that finally
> causes less detonation/knock and therefore also causes less retard. My temp
> dropped to 112°F with water injection!

That is very impressive indeed.

> For "normal" boost of 15psi as well as the pre-cats still in place, the
> exhaust mods did not do anything to power ! BUT, the dp without a cat helps
> in better spool-up and therefore you gain in trap speed.... but not
> horsepower.

We'll never know for sure until somebody makes runs at the track on
the same day with and without the catalytic/exhaust system.  They could
throw 75lbs weight in the car so that any differences won't be due to
weight.  Better spoolup should get you off the line quicker, but I don't
think that by itself would increase trapspeeds because the rest of the
run is full throttle (near redline) anyways.

> interestingly, noone has maps for 9B, 13G or even 15G or 17G.

That's too bad.  Maybe TEC can provide them to somebody so we
can study them.

> I agree that the 15G would be the right solution and I would take them now
> with what I know today. The available stuff doesn't make any ECU mod
> necessary. Even more, I found a retarded timing with the first chipset and
> it was somewhat less powerful as the stock ECU !!

Maybe you might consider going back to the stock ECU?  I'm really
wondering how well the gtpro turbos like your 368s (or the 355s which
Brian says are better than 15Gs) will compare to the 15Gs.  I guess
I'll just have to wait and see.

- --Errin

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:03:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Andrew C. Ohnstad" <andy@andysaudio.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dumb Question, but curious

Radar should not be a problem.  Removing the front plate is not gonna
help you much against radar.  Radar needs any big surface to bounce off
of and our cars certainally provide that.

Laser on the other hand is a different story.  Without a front licence
plate you're denying the officer the flat surface he needs to get a lazer
reading.  Of course nothing to keep them from shooting your rear licence
plate after you've passed, assuming they were hidden well enough that you
wouldn't have had time to slow down.

If your city/state uses primarially radar then you're about screwed.  Get
a good detector and be careful.  Radar jammers fall into two categorys,
those that don't work, and those that are illegeal.

Laser, on the other hand can be sucessfully jammed legally.  I don't
remember right now (but I can find) a couple sources for legal laser
jammers that work very well.  There was one jammer in particular (which I
used to run on my car in Maryland, which is almost exclusivley laser)
which would not even give a reading to a lazer gun fired point blank at
it.  Again, the rear of the car is unprotected so if the officer is well
hidden you're busted.

=-=Andrew (ex-cop)
"Traveling At The Speed of Thought" --- Teenage FanClub
'94 Mitsubishi 3000 GT -- Eclipse, Boston Acoustics, Rockford Power

On Sun, 24 Oct 1999, Rah wrote:

> Hello all,
>     Recently I took the front license plate off my 93 Stealth RT, now
> that plate is required in my state so hush-hush.  I know from people
> I've seen on the road that it's not unusual at all.
>     The real question, not to get my or anybody elses hopes up, but I
> can't help but wonder how well a police officer can get a radar signal
> off of this car.  From my experience in another car club, and
> information an ex-military man was able to give me on how radar requires
> a very specific reflection, it does make you wonder.
>
> Anybody know?  Anyone put a gun to it and found out?  I'm not relying on
> it yet, but it'd be interesting to know what y'all think,
>
> --Rich
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:09:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Andrew C. Ohnstad" <andy@andysaudio.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dumb Question, but curious

On Sun, 24 Oct 1999, Benson "elmagoo" Russell wrote:

> determine (or rather GUESS) which car was doing the returned speed.  One
> fact to note though is that big vehicles (trucks in other words) will ALWAYS
> return the strongest signal no matter what.  So if a trucks doing 50, and
> you zip buy at 80, he'll get a 50 reading because the trucks return signal
> is much stronger.  This is another reason why you should always ask to see
> the gun reading for yourself when they pull you over (I've heard of cops
> trying to pull a fast one where they didn't even clock you at all).  If they
> refuse, you make them write that on the ticket and point that one out to the
> judge :).

Yup, and another variation on the theme is moving radar.  It basically
shoots out two radar pulses and attempts to figure out how fast the
cruiser is going and how fast you are going.  It relies on the fact that
there will be a sign, overpass, building, something which is not moving to
provide the reference for the cruiser's speed.  If the officer is using
moving radar and is anywhere near a tractor trailer, rv, etc. the radar
unit will not be able to figure out the crusier's speed and give the
officer a reading well over 150mph.  Most officers know better but there
are always a few new/overenthusiastic guys out there, and sure, our cars
WILL do 150. :)

> another little trick of note that I read in Car and Driver a long ways back
> on ways to defeat laser radar when they were first introduced.  One method
> they came up with and tested is to put an extremely high candle-watt powered
> light (like the ones the cops use) on the front of your car near the lisence
> plate (because that's where they aim their laser guns due to the lisence
> plates highly reflective surface).  Aim it forward, and then put an
> infra-red filter on it (so it blocks all spectrum of light except ir).  This

The lazer jammers that I discussed basically do this, but in a pulsing,
"strobe light" method.  As I said there was one that worked REALLY well.


=-=Andrew
"Traveling At The Speed of Thought" --- Teenage FanClub
'94 Mitsubishi 3000 GT -- Eclipse, Boston Acoustics, Rockford Power


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:46:41 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Re: REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!

Sounds like a worthwhile investment to me.
Tks.
Arty

In a message dated 10/28/99 6:52:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
xwing@execpc.com writes:

<< Subj:     REAL Underdrive Dampeners Available!
 Date:  10/28/99 6:52:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time
 From:  xwing@execpc.com (xwing)
 Reply-to:  xwing@execpc.com
 To:    stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com (Sirius 3000GT Mail List),
stealth@starnet.net (stealth@starnet.net)
 
 REAL underdrive harmonic dampeners, that ACTUALLY DAMPEN
 harmonics like the stock crankshaft dampener (unlike the  junk  IMO
 Unorthodox "PULLEY") are newly available from
 Dave Buschur in Ohio!  I had prodded him into making them, and they
 have taken a long time to get made, but here we are...
 
 They are NHRA legal so if any weenies complain you are going too fast
 with stock dampener you can tell them to shut their pieholes.
 
 Because are underdrive, the require a slightly shorter pulley belt,
 which
 will have to be determined (Dave doesn't have a 3000/Stealth there to
 model it on).
 
 I am getting mine; there are 4 more available/in stock now; I'd
 suggest Art Shevack, Mike Mahaffey, and the other leading
 edge people consider it for sure; and anybody wanting an
 underdrive that still does the MAIN job, DAMPENING!
 Cost is about $345 or so, very reasonable for such a device
 especially custom...
 Save Your Crank and Bearings by contacting Dave at
 website  buschurracing.com
 phone     1-440-839-1900
  >>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:53:13 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Methanol - Opinions

Has anyone (Dr. J.T) considered using Methanol ?
Arty
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:23:08 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: "New" Improved lifters 4 sale

I had just bought a full set (24) of the new improved lifters for my 91 VR-4.
These fit any year car. These are improved with larger oiling holes to
prevent clogging and lifter noise. They are new still UNOPENED in the bag
from Talla Mitsu. I''d rather sell them then return them. Anybody interested
I'll take a fast $225. and I'll ship too.
BTW, I ended up needing solid lifters to achieve the 1000HP I was after.
Arty 91 VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:51:31 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Methanol - Opinions

For some reason I seem to remember something about needing a little more
than 2 times of the amount of methanol verses gasoline to create a
Stoichiometric A/F ratio.  Though, I would imagine it burns A LOT cooler.  I
would check out some books on the subject, might be worth looking into for a
full race prepped car.

John Basol
System Management Services


-----Original Message-----
From: Aso8@aol.com [SMTP:Aso8@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 11:53 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Cc: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Methanol - Opinions

Has anyone (Dr. J.T) considered using Methanol ?
Arty
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #320
****************************

For unsubscribe info and FAQ, see our web page at http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm